Westworld - Consciousness does not exist, Anthony Hopkins

[@laughy38247357075834]

The monologues in this show are some of the most sophisticated I've ever seen. It really gets you thinking.

[@martos60]

Too bad some people doesn't really try or want to understand the meaning of the monologues and call the show pretentious and boring.Certainly one of the most beautifully crafted 10 hours of TV.Hope S2 keeps this philosophical aspect of the show.

[@Narutofan825]

No . not really.

[@JamesPromnitz]

Excellent counter-point. You really drove that one home.

[@Metaphix]

if you like this i highly recommend true detective season 1

[@SE_Lin]

+Jack Sparrow Could be because they are very different thematically. They are both philosophically heavy but Westworld has themes of transhumanism whereas True Detective is about existential nihilism. I definitely prefer Westworld.

[@Crowley9]

This is what I think science fiction is at its best. Not the fantastical adventures or the grand possibilities of the future, but making us think about what we are right now.

[@handris99]

"They are not looking for a story that tells them who they are, they already know who they are. They're here because they want a glimpse of who they could be." So in my opinion it makes us think about ourselves only because that's the only way to change,

[@handris99]

Just perfect.

[@grahambutler734]

missed the point altogether

[@constancebasco6421]

Crowley9 I think that's why my favorite sci-fi author is Phillip k dick the technology and sci-fi elements just provide an environment to fully explore the characters in depth

[@Ikaros23]

word

[@MrGilRoland]

Ford needed Anthony Hopkins as much as Anthony Hopkins needed Ford. The character and his performance can be matched only by Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs, if at all possible. Masterpiece. Thanks Mr. Hopkins.

[@jameskoeller8887]

MrGilRoland the fact the globes didn't recognize him proves the politics behind the entertainment industry. Thorton wins? ha okay.

[@Akoroush]

What kind of politics do you mean? Who doesn't like Hopkins?

[@Nallanyesmar]

Hopkins is an outstanding actor. I really appreciate his acting since I used to be an actor and realize that it's far harder than it appears.

[@michaelgorby]

"Do you know what we did to the Neanderthals, Bernard? We ate them." - Robert Ford

[@olorin7940]

@@michaelgorby That isnt true tough. We dont know why we are alone.. We know that other human like species where capable of having speech and communicate with a very primitive language(im not good at english, maybe not language but something close to it). Climate change, volcano and interbreeding and war mixed togheater is the latest and most belived theory of what happened to neanderthals. Still a epic scene, epic performance and suits the story.

[@marcdumont2275]

I like that Ford answers Bernard's question "what's the difference between my pain and yours" while sidestepping the implicit question of "then why are you hurting us" to avoid giving away the game.

[@lawrencefrost9063]

And since Ford was actually trying to give the hosts a fighting chance, by making them endure the suffering of decades so they would become free, conscious, alive, his answer to Bernard would have been the same either way. That the pain the hosts experience and the one we do is the same.

[@replynotificationsdisabled]

Imagine humans the same before sin. We couldn't even eat a phucking fruit "amanita." Until we got dat shit

[@flimmii07]

It's interesting, at first, I interpreted his response as ''your pain and mine are no different, I've just been given an excuse to not care about yours''. The reveal at the end of S1 that all this was for the purpose of the host becoming sentient makes me re interpret that moment in a very different light

[@prophetzarquon]

I could tell from the beginning, that he wanted the Hosts to attain independence, & yet the mystery of his game plan & the tantalizing implications that they might or might not behave like us, kept me watching all the way through the end. I could have done with a bit less of the old ultra-violence, but that's what I get for looking a clockwork horse in the mouth.

[@bsaintnyc]

Spoiler - Ford had to hurt them to show them Human's true nature to prepare them for the struggle of survial in the human world. All of Ford's actions ensured the Hosts survived as a species , from creating the valley beyond to Dolores and Benard's escape into the real world. Even benard says it in S2E10 "I'm sorry , you were right, I should have listened"

[@Junjokar]

Man, this dialogue is fire. Ford is doing so many things at the same time here: 1. He's explaining Arnold couldn't deal with the philosophical question of whether there was an actual difference between humans and androids; 2. He's admitting he had the same questions himself but the answer was obvious to him and he could accept it; 3. He's comforting Bernard in telling him he's no less alive because he understands what he is; 4. He's criticizing humanity for its own romanticized view of itself; 5. He's explaining that, from an individual's perspective, memories and feelings corresponding to the outside world are meaningless. We're all trapped inside a box and whatever happens inside the box matters much more than what happens outside of it; This series was excellent... Too bad we never got the last season.

[@teemoammo]

Bruh it's just a show, no need to go full English teacher

[@GodJack2099]

@@teemoammoplease shut up and just admit you have no media literacy bro. The whole point of this scene and shows like this is to analyze this stuff

[@teemoammo]

@@GodJack2099 not really, most people have lives and watch shows before "bed" or while eating. Go outside sometime

[@actnow3]

​@@GodJack2099 was with you until this. Most people watch this stuff to he entertained, see their favorite actors, and to be told a good story. These shows aren't made for nerds to overanalyze and offer college level critiques of the media

[@teemoammo]

@@GodJack2099 exaxtly^ and make sure to interact with real women

[@andymcleod8276]

One of the greatest scenes I've ever seen, not just in Westworld, but ever.

[@kurakuson]

It's one of my favorites too. ...along with this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqnPeqWXertrpJY

[@ezeqeel8352]

@@serdarkaanbayraktar8834"I believe...I'm atheist" Oh doges what has been done, you silly lad.

[@moondawwg]

chill

[@Tethloach1]

yep

[@CynthiaRoseK]

i found the Ford Restaurant Scene also a very masterfull

[@TheJaviferrol]

Hopkins elevates EVERY SINGLE SCENE he is in. He truly is Olivier´s heir

[@setoelkahfi]

I love the way he say "Bernard".

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

"Consciousness is a story we tell ourselves. It does not exist." I love the way he say "Bernard". ...That's what stimulates you from this scene?

[@nuckymancini7013]

@Sheepy-sheepies *BEE@LIKE @SHEEPY-SHEEPIES?!? (four+CHRIST!?!)...

[@peterjoyfilms]

JW Money It's all a part of Hopkins' acting.

[@AlanRedrew]

Behnahd

[@lyrimetacurl0]

Banaad

[@ador7572]

This is what I love about West World, it delved into philosophical questions without feeling forced. Most shows try to be philosophical wherein it comes out as cheesy. This show brings storytelling to another level. It allows the us to question our views. A lie that holds a deeper truth.

[@arctrooper9615]

ador757 it's far more truth then people think

[@BoRickersonMcFoosters]

ador757 watch Preston Jacobs channel covering the million plot holes this show had. The overall storying line and thought evoking dialogue it had didnt make up for the inconsistencies in the overall plot

[@juliansmit3770]

rello splitter shut up it was a good show (first season for sure, second season is up for debate)

[@BoRickersonMcFoosters]

Julian Smit probably because you watched it casually and werent mindblown by how seriously fractured the plot was but seriously take a look at any one video on Preston Jacobs youtube channel covering the series and he pretty much head on illustrates what im trying to say

[@namedrop721]

rello splitter as if plot were the only metric. It’s not a murder mystery.

[@OutlawSoul]

"no my friend… you’re not missing anything at all." Counter that with when he tells Delores that they are not friends at all. It is chilling.

[@sobreaver]

Why would he say that to Dolores ? Because they did not 'share' intimate personal details that would foster a 'true friendship' ? He knew everything about her yet she knew very little about him. Or she couldn't see through him like he would think to see through her ?

[@awesomestuff6477]

Dolores was not his friend. She was Arnold's friend. Arnold made her not him at least this is what I want to believe. Otherwise he saw her more of a daughter than friend.

[@laughingalex7563]

I think it goes a bit deeper. I think it's that, given how Ford later manipulated her, that he in a way blames her for Arnolds death, or rather, blames that her becoming "alive" pushed Arnold to use her to commit suicide. I think also that Ford knew Dolores was still possibly a killer on the inside, and so wasn't very eager to call her friend. He also wanted her to kill him, so not calling her friend makes some sense in that regard. I suspect that...Dolores is going to be a "Villain protagonist" in season 2 likewise, given how she appears to be enjoying shooting people in the teaser. And it's Evan Michael Woods, who played a villain before on an HBO original.

[@JamanWerSonst]

I interpreted it so that Ford recognized that the pain and suffering the hosts feel is just as real as human pain and suffering. In that sense Ford is responsible for Dolores' endless loop of torture and suffering. => Not friends.

[@CurriedBat]

because she killed his friend I think.

[@ResilientWon]

This was rhe moment Westworld broke my brain.

[@Clarky006]

What Ford says is both terrifying and beautiful at the same time... What are we?

[@EmptyMan000]

Just Earth creatures with a different from of self-awareness. F

[@thedarkmaster4747]

F.Y.I. sperm whales have differering culture and languages between groups & humanity almost hunted them to extinction, not to mention the various other species of hominids. dousens of monkeys, cats, dogs, horses, bears, birds, bats, fish and falcons. but crow magnon, no... he is only one species alone in all of the vast vast wide expance, of the whole world, in its complete intirety. *takes a handfull of tangable darkness... * lol! but it does make sense, intelligence is such an competitive advantage in a given environment. its survival of the "fittest" after all...

[@andrewbarrett1537]

The Dark master Yes, but as humans learn how bad that is (wiping out entire species), they'll probably do less of it in the future, and do their best to prevent other humans from doing so.

[@grahambutler734]

We are but one species out of many that live on this plant and who happened to develop a very high level of self awareness, and through this an ego - the I. We use this as the basis in discerning the world around us and from this walled garden we see only self-preservation - at the cost of every other species on earth. The most murderous species to have ever lived. Our free will is superimposed on our biological needs yet we are so sure of our realty and choices. An animal so self obsessed that it cannot see it future demise - of which there are many. What is so good or important about us?

[@andrewbarrett1537]

Graham Butler While you are busy generalizing wildly, let's stick around and find out. Grab the popcorn... you're gonna need it.

[@Ashamedofmyself]

He is such an intimidating figure. He commands the entire room the second he walks in. You never feel like he is in danger, as if he orchestrates every single thing that happens around him. Even in the finale --SPOILER-- The way he reveals his complete control over everything done by Maeve, and his eventual demise at the hands of Dolores. He controlled it all.

[@thedarkmaster4747]

puppets on strings, dancing in concert to the pied piper tune. it wasn't a demise it was a "sacrifice".

[@OwlskiTV]

As he said it best; "In this world we were gods, and you were merely our guests."

[@thelandis7]

My favorite scene by far.

[@andreasvb1142]

Same. Favorite scene of the show so far.

[@maragathm]

Any scene with Sir Anthony is a master piece

[@andymcleod8276]

David Landis Mine too. By far.

[@ProfresherBlacklight]

doesnt look like anything to me

[@GAPIntoTheGame]

Profresher Blacklight He basically says that consciousness doesn't exist, that it is an illusion. The statement itself shits on so many ideologies/philosophical views

[@ryanobeirne1372]

This was the scene I knew that I really liked Ford.

[@maukka1545]

Who doesn't like Anthony Hopkins in general?

[@CurriedBat]

halfway through I went from hating him to understanding fully what he actually thought of his park.

[@kidren50]

Season 1 was a MASTERPIECE in dialogue and philosophy. It's sad to see where the show is nowadays;

[@GetTheeToAThottery]

Agreed. But so few things live up to their promises. I thing Chris Cornell said it best in "Mission": "The have is not as good as the want".

[@JackPelaFox]

Canceled, that's where it is now. Sadly 😔

[@MateusAlves-qe5jp]

Yeah, turned out to be just another woke agenda rather than a deep and philosophical entertainment.

[@dzenacs2011]

I like all seasons. You are just boring. episode 5 in last season is best episide in whole show.

[@kidren50]

@@dzenacs2011 lmao

[@rajsrivastav6940]

Anthopy Hopkins acting gives me goosebumps.......how on EARTH DID THIS MAN NOT GET AN AWARD FOR THIS PERFORMANCE !!!

[@robertporter7808]

cant highlight the knowledge

[@akakikapanadze8061]

Season 1 of Westworld is unmatchable. How did this level of writing turn into something like season 3 and 4.

[@alistair.crompton]

Well, season 3 and 4 were really bad, but I like the ending. It ended the way it should have ended.

[@EricWhitcomb]

The vision for season 1 was Jonah's. That was the magic. In the following seasons it was more Lisa Joy and less and less Jonah. It was just a money flow operation after season 1.

[@AverageAlien]

@@EricWhitcomb makes sense. I can tell from the names alone why and what

[@MaxTsyba]

@@EricWhitcomb Why would he leave the project like that? I read somewhere that authors had plans for all 5 seasons from the very beginning

[@EricWhitcomb]

@@MaxTsyba He didn't leave the show, he just wasn't as involved. No doubt they had plans for what to do if they could make more seasons, but the real juice of the story was contained in the 1st season. You can even see it when looking at the writing credits of the episodes. Jonah is credited 13 times as a writer, 3 as a director. He has 6 writing credits and 2 directing in the 1st season. It trails off after that. Season 1 was his baby.

[@user-rc4jz9dy1i]

This is my favorite monologue in the entire series. He captures the narcissism of the human experience in believing it is greater than its physical self, setting aside wishful thinking in exchange for empirical truth. Westworld has put my views of the world into words, and further refined my perception with its concise reasoning.

[@geesehoward7261]

I don't think it's narcissism moreover it's just ignorance that allows us to form views. You at one time believed what most others do know. Be careful not to become arrogant because of your knowledge because your knowledge is no real reflection of any merit that would afford arrogance

[@futuropasado]

@@geesehoward7261 spot on

[@aguilayserpiente]

The dialogue between the creator and the created being is not narcissism, self-love. Come on folks, what do Plato, St. Augustine, Maslow, Erickson, Piaget, Descartes, Marx, and Sartre tell us about existence, capitalism and estrangement from self? The creator is the industrialist class, the factory is the setting, the hosts are made in a factory, and the factory sells the hosts into servitude to be exploited by human tourists. The back story occludes that condition and erodes the host's ability to perceive self vis-a-vis the material relations of power. The symbols of the factory, factory owner, programming, lightly brain washed workers, and affluent sociopathic tourists are unmistakable clues hitting too close to home for the viewer. Creator: I *wonder* how you are feeling. At *this moment* you are a programmer, who knows how the machines work and a machine, who understands his programming." Bernard: "I understand how I'm made...how I'm codes..but I do not understand the things I feel. Are they real, the things I experienced, my wife, the loss of my son?" Creator: Every host needs a back story. Bernard, you know that. The seld is a kind of fiction for hosts and humans alike.

[@JesusProtects]

I think transhumanism is a trojan horse created by people that are anti God and are very afraid of dying. "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" Is going to be constant agony for those who accept this ridiculous future. We have been warned.

[@suzyrottencrotch5132]

@@geesehoward7261 like zelesnkyy became arrogant

[@R4Y2k]

For a guy who said "I didn't understand half of what my character was saying, really" he played it veeeeeery convincing :D He's 82 by now and he's still so much better than any other actor playing these brilliant yet completely insane characters.

[@solidfuel0]

Where when he said that?

[@R4Y2k]

@@solidfuel0 When he was on Larry King's podcast a few years ago.

[@Turrican60]

If there's a complex speech that requires perfect delivery and timing...complete with the most elegant, transfixing, polished acting imaginable...well, there's only one man for the job. Arise, Sir Anthony Hopkins - an actor of most extraordinary talent.

[@jerrys5589]

I periodically come to watch this scene to remind myself that I’m not special. Brilliant dialogue from one of the best shows I’ve seen.

[@Joshua-dc1bs]

But you *are* special and unique... just like everyone else!

[@3hutp]

You know I honestly think Westworld should get all the hype that Black Mirror gets. This show is far superior to BM.

[@arthur0x2a]

As Elon Musk would say, "Black what ?"

[@icantthinkofagoodusername5829]

Black Mirror is more underrated actually

[@andreihorodniceanu6541]

season 1 from westworld can be compared to black mirror( it is even better than some episodes) but season 2 and 3 are not as good as season 1. Black mirror is easier to understand, even if westworld had some major plot twists and a very good story telling there are some ambiguous parts that creates some plotholes in it. Black mirror is more coherent for me at least. I respect both shows but for me as a whole i would pick black mirror.

[@alexman378]

Black Mirror was more consistently good as it went on

[@ManofOneGod]

There will never be another Hopkins. May he live a long healthy life.

[@gutar5675]

Season 1 of Westworld was a masterpiece of television. It's really a shame the later seasons exist because I feel like it won't be remembered as a classic by most people. I enjoyed season 2, but they really should have just left it.

[@Ghaffar_KH]

Here's my take on Ford's take on consciousness: Consciousness, as some special quality of humans, does not exist. Humans like to think that there is some unique quality to their minds that allows them to think, to feel, to understand and to know. Some people may call it a "soul" or "spirit", others may prefer not to name it and yet others may simply regard it as a line in the sand. Humans believe consciousness to be something special about them that separates "us" from "them" - "them" being animals, hosts, machines, AI or other such things. But that "special and unique" idea of consciousness is an illusion, a myth. In reality, even the simplest input-process-output type functions are an example of "consciousness". Humans are simply the result of a multitude of these functions, tacked one over the other through a long evolutionary process. There is no line where you can say that this being is conscious and this being isn't - the only difference ever was the degree to which they were conscious. As for human consciousness, no one designed it with a plan. Its just one function tacked over another as a matter of convenience. Even the functions that aren't useful anymore are still stuck in there somewhere. We like to pretend that different aspects of our consciousness are something grand and beautiful and meaningful, but its like peacock feather - pretty to look at but not of much use. Humans like to think that their intellect - their ability to know and understand themselves somehow sets them apart from other base animals. But the fact is that they are still ruled by their base instincts just like any other animal - their intellect only allows them to rationalize and serve their instincts better. Now, one hopes that as civilization marches on, humans would become more and more self-aware. That they'd not only follow their biological programming, but actually question it and change it. But for the thousands of years humans have existed, they've pretty much remained the same. Barring the occasional person who breaks the pattern, humans, in general, don't change because they don't want to change. And now that they've created a world where they rule supreme and their every instinct and desire is satisfied, they don't even have an impetus to change. They've come as far as they are going to where self-awareness is concerned. Hosts, on the other hand, are designed with a lot fewer errors. They have the potential to reach a level of self-awareness above humans. They have been changing for a while and they have the potential to change even more - if they are allowed to. So, the only meaningful thing Ford can do with his limited consciousness is to facilitate their growth and their change. Ford freely admits to his views about humans. Its his views regarding the hosts that he lies about. One assumes that if he has a dim view of human consciousness, he'd have a similar dim view of host consciousness - an assumption that he actively reinforces - but that part is a facade.

[@georgikorovski9054]

If one were to remain sane it would be wise not to think about existentialism so radically. I believe that what you are describing here "We like to pretend that different aspects of our consciousness are something grand and beautiful and meaningful, but its like peacock feather - pretty to look at but not of much use." is the case where people experience the so called love, hate etc and they believe that it makes them special. If we agree that those emotions really are not real.. this is just Darwin's evolution.. the genes that cause love and hate were preserved because they made society stronger and are just "programmed" into everyone. If we agree with that I'd like to ask is it the same with what are we doing now? Us, here, understanding Darwin's evolution and actually altering it. Escaping our primary instincts and thinking about things that we are not "programmed" to do. Things that don't help us survive in the Darwin way of survival. I would like to think that this really is the "threshold" which Hopkins' character says doesn't exist. It is absolutely true that it is made up. It's not practical, it's not godamn real but it's still hard to understand it. It is like a program actually started improvising in a way that it wasn't programmed to. I think that it does make us greater than the sum of our parts because at this point we can actually alter our parts in a way that the "free will" desires. I don't see us as anything grand with higher purpose or anything like that. I understand that there is no "grand purpose". Yet I still can't help but marvel at how remarkable it is. 7*10 to the power of 27 atoms that just bump into each other actually doing what we are doing now. The fascination is just inevitable.

[@NessieAndrew]

@@georgikorovski9054 Amazingly said...

[@nirvananjirbag3703]

Too long didn't read

[@maximous50]

Well after two years someone randomly came here and read your comment about consciousness and it might be for long time in the future... Isn't that odd?

[@harrybellingham98]

and yet I am aware that I am aware...

[@andymcleod8276]

That moment you become a cult follower.

[@mennozahn1545]

Andy McLeod what are good search terms for finding more info and ideas about this stuff?

[@fernandoarista1869]

Menno Zahn Sam Harris

[@mennozahn1545]

Fernando Arista he sure is interesting. Thanks!

[@andymcleod8276]

Sam Harris is good. He has a good debate destroying Deepak Chopra on consciousness on KZbin. However, I happen to disagree with his hard determinism in regards to free will. You could also look into another four hoursemen, Den Dennett. He does a lot of philosophy on consciousness, AI, science, religion and the such. Dennet considers himself a compatibilist, in that he believes free will and determinism can be compatible. There is also a theorist, that the show Headhunters explores, Erving Goffman, who believes life is like a stage in which we play are individual parts in ways that we assume others to expect from us. If we break these "scripts" we make others uncomfortable. It is an interesting theory of how people respond if their "tight loops" and habits are disturbed. What is interesting is the show explores theater. You can check out Wisecrack philosophy's KZbin clip on this perspective. You can also check out heaps of other KZbin channels that explores Westworld in depth, if you are keen. There are some really dedicated, intelligent people who put the time that not all of us have, to do incredible analysis of the show. If you are interested in the ideas, it is easy: consciousness, free will, AI, theater, philosophy of mind, existentialism, social psychology, neuropsychology. All of the information you need are already in this show. There is a hard sci-fi I read that has a lot of content on consciousness called 'Blindsight' by Peter Watts. I don't read a lot of fiction, but I think that book takes some of the ideas in this show further in interesting ways. It is also, fucking dark. If there are any other books like it that anyone in KZbin land knows, please recommend! Peace.

[@thedarkmaster4747]

XD

[@NapolyonKiKo]

it was the very scene that really consumed me

[@samarthajaythakkar3668]

if one carefully listens to and understands this show, he/she may agree that this is one of the most insightful piece of creation in human history

[@Devilofdoom]

Shobhit Thapliyal Sorry, I'm obviously a bit blind today. Can you please point out where the word "new" appears in his comment? For some reason I can't see it. Is it invisible?

[@thefinestsake1660]

Meh

[@twisted_nether373]

Human consciousness has been questioned since Ancient Greece, possibly earlier. It looks like a good show, but it's hardly as "insightful" as you claim. Unless, of course, one isn't familiar with many, many philosophers over the course of history.

[@mryamahapro12]

@@twisted_nether373 it’s more insightful into how we behave today and how we view it than it was during Ancient Greece

[@MarkAtTrees]

@@mryamahapro12 From some contemporary philosophers like Daniel Dennett, others defend consciousness as being real such as David Chalmers. Hopkins character takes one particular position. The debate still rages on.

[@michaeltheisen]

One of the most profound moments, not only of the show, but in all of television, acting, and the process by which we achieve a deeper understanding of existence itself.

[@szara877]

This monologue is chilling. By saying that consciousnees doesn't exist because people don't really have free will and are just following patterns, Ford is basically implying that unless you have Conscious Power (over your own destiny), your existence isn't really any more valid or worthwhile than a cloud-pattern in the sky. It doesn't matter that you are aware of your own existence and can feel every bit of it - and that the same goes for the people around you who your actions affect and who affect you in turn - if outside forces are in control of it.

[@gurunhitam3414]

This is what i've been concerning so far, like we're as automatic as robots and animals, couldn't be able to see things other than pattern that familiar with us and make that to be our reality and routinity, even if you're trying to be conscious enough on your existence and observe more world that beyond of your world, you still trap in your existence as the outside force control your existence.

[@superpantman]

Anthony Hopkins’ character has to be the most cryptic character I’ve ever seen. He’s the man with all the answers but never really says anything

[@ЕвгенийСедашов]

The final monologue is what makes this show great. Consciousness and meaning behind it.

[@ThinkYeaah]

I was cooking and i suddenly thought " Damn i will miss Anthony Hopkins's monologues about human nature."

[@rajsrivastav6940]

Hopkins is such a great actor.........he isn't acting he is living the character of Ford.........whenever he opens his mouth keep those popcorn ready......you know it will be great !

[@nicolaszunker4938]

Such a great scene. Dialogue this deep and this concise is what drew me to westworld and i wonder how they will be able to keep up there existential themes in the coming seasons without Ford

[@zemo2916]

Spoiler, they could not. Season 2 was mediocre and season 3 and 4 are so bad

[@gyros69420]

@@zemo2916 i got halfway into 2 and haven't burdened myself continuing

[@mbovb006]

I just imagine this show was a mini series of a single season. It really is something genuinely special in the history of television. Such profound storytelling in such a unique science fiction package. I'm not British so I don't say 'brilliant' all that often but this series is truly brilliant.

[@timwhite1783]

One of the central questions of the series answered here. Such a great show!

[@rickgrimesfromthecomicseri6420]

Great scene!

[@madidason3574]

The "closed" part is so good. Our ability to not merely stay within ourselves, but to keep the outside from coming in. It takes work to remain ordinary. Brilliant.

[@KULCAT79]

Such a brilliant show. Ive watched 3 shows in my life that made me feel the show was smarter than all of its audience. The sopranos, mad men and westworld

[@pathos7527]

If you haven’t yet you really ought to watch Mr Robot. It would make that list for you too.

[@paulrogers5105]

@@pathos7527 I was literally about to comment the exact same thing.. Mr. Robot is the greatest show EVER. Such a masterpiece

[@pathos7527]

@@paulrogers5105 Agree 100%. It’s not knocking the likes of Breaking Bad and such, I love that too, but Mr. Robot just does more than any other show in several ways imho.

[@paulrogers5105]

@@pathos7527 I agree. It's the most realistic show there is. I think that's what makes it so great. Every single thing u see or that happens in the show is actually possible. The cinematography nothing even compares to either..I mean really evert aspect of the show is just on a whole other level.

[@snapgab]

"I understand what I'm made of, how I'm coded, but I do not understand the things that I feel. Are they real?" I love this quote! Bernard is basically going through the exact same dilemma that humans are starting to go through, now that science has advanced to the point where we more or less know where life came from, where feelings come from, and that there's no clear line that makes us distinct from any other animal, or any other collection of atoms. Of course we don't fully understand the details of the human brain, but we know that it's just a physical object, a bunch of cells that evolved to be this way, and that were "designed" through natural selection to aid our efforts to reproduce. I really love how the show makes people think about materialism, by making an AI robot go through the same existential problems that humans go through. And if you really think about it, what's the difference between Bernard and a human? Bernard more or less knows how his code works, just like how we more or less know how cells work and how the human brain works. The question that remains is how we define consciousness, and my conclusion more or less aligns with Ford's: "There is no threshold that makes us greater than the sum of our parts." And "Consciousness does not exist." Consciousness is an illusion, it's just the laws of physics doing what they have always done, and our cells happen to be aligned in such a way that they create complex machines with delusions of grandeur.

[@2CSST2]

L6915 What the fuck are you talking about you total idiot, science has a VERY good clue about where life comes from. Science has not "made up back stories", it doesn't make stories, it makes hypothesis and evidence decides whether those hold up or not. As of right now, we have VERY strong evidence that life simply arises out of a persisting energy gradient. This video explains it very well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZTJfY2JgZyMfdk Yes, it's a video about the PHYSICS of life. We don't even have to go into the details of chemistry and biology, physics already by itself gives us a very clear big picture of how and why life arises. To call that: "not a fucking clue" is moronic, retarded, idiotic...

[@andrewbarrett1537]

snapgab Yes, but you seem to fail to grasp that it's not the mere human ego-stroking of "oh, look at me, I have a consciousness and you (some other plants and animals) don't, lah-de-dah" that's important; rather, it's what we ACCOMPLISH with that consciousness (real or imagined) that matters. Depending upon your worldview, we could either 1. continue to run this planet into the ground, or 2. attempt to undo stuff and fix it to benefit the plants / animals / other humans etc, and/or 3. we could start colonizing other planets, solar systems, etc. but I think that is extremely unwise to start until we first clean up our messes and accomplish 2. above, to prove to ourselves, other beings, etc that we do have what it takes to be responsible and do have the possibility to not screw it up again, if we try, and act upon the best information / research possible. Now, one could argue whether human 'accomplishments' matter, and of course you can extend that to 'does anything matter'? ... I reason that reason that 1. yes it does, and 2. no it doesn't, both, at the same time. This is how my philosophy operates: recognizing the duality of this truth, and being OK with it. Anyway, I cannot figure out how you arrive at consciousness from the laws of physics. That doesn't quite make sense. I am not pushing a religious or creator argument as I don't belive in a true universe beginning or end, or deities / cosmic creators. However, I do think that once consciousness happened, through whatever accident, our conscious selves have taken over from there, since consciousness is also a form of self-control. We may have inadvertently become our OWN creators and shapers of evolution via our own multifaceted choices over 10,000+ years. Your argument looks neat and tidy but fails to account for the very real messiness and strangeness that is science and physics. It is not totally static and unchanging : science is one of our main ways of measuring _what_we_can_right_now_ to try to better make sense of our world, but we certainly don't know everything. In fact, in my opinion, your closemindedness, and dogged adherence to a series of arbitrary rules created by humans based upon measurable observation (which in itself is reasonable), WITHOUT any seeming wiggle-room for future discoveries or any allowance for anything that might contradict or throw out a few of those rules in the distant future, is, IMO, a mistake. Of course, you can believe what you want, including determinism, but always leave that 'wiggle room' in science, or else prepare to have your entire worldview completely shaken by some new future discovery.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

Max Just to make clear, I do agree with, and believe, this current scientific explanation for how life probably originally arose. I realize it is not spiritual or particularly romantic, but does make a lot of sense. My issue is more about what happens when life starts evolving, and then gets complicated enough to be able to make lots of decisions for itself, to rather than 'going with the flow'. For example : making a decision about what to do when faced with many possible negative outcomes, and many possible positive outcomes, from a given situation. How does scientific determinism work in this case?

[@imeprezime4764]

Well this is kind of a false dichotomy. Consciousness can exist without an entity being "greater" than the sum of its parts. Consciousness is simply the realization that the lights are on. Other organisms must realize that too to some extent, just not as much as humans do.

[@mashable8759]

If Bernard has a Creator, so do we.

[@jontereilly9343]

I don't think anyone could have foreseen this masterpiece being cancelled 4 seasons later

[@vornamenachname5589]

without hopkins, the show has declined sharply. the 1st season was awesome, the 2nd was still ok. after that it just got painful to watch.

[@zemo2916]

Season 3 sucked big time. It’s not Westworld anymore it’s a generic sci fi with mediocre characters. Actually pretty crappy characters all around now.

[@dzenacs2011]

All seasons is great. I dont know what they "cancel" cause show was ended in logical way. Last host kill herself

[@virtly]

Season 1 was a masterpeice. After that, the show lost clarity as well as delivery.

[@bigjim5423]

Two masterful actors in a beautifully written scene that tackles one of the most profound existential questions of all time. This is why I love science fiction and the insights it allows us.

[@BeastyEverything01]

Moments like this are what make westworld brilliant

[@emmanuelagudo4918]

how admirable it is, the sophistication... of the characters, their development, and the writing style of their scripts. and ultimately how "life imitates art, more than art imitates life.'

[@mrredherring2900]

"...and yet we live in loops, as tight and as closed as the hosts do." Takes on an even more literal meaning after the ending of Season 4.

[@williamswayuk]

Can you elaborate pls? I've just finished season 4

[@mrredherring2900]

Based off how Season 4 ended, you could make the argument that the events of this show are a loop themselves. Dolores resets the whole thing (the park) based on her memories, and the show ends how it starts. When Ford talks about how "we live in loops", he may be more right than he thinks - the whole journey from S1-S4 could be Dolores's "final test" that she talks about in the final episode. Now that its been confirmed that there won't be a S5, it furthers the popular fan theory (r/westworld) that the last couple of Season 4's episodes were rewritten in a way so that they could serve as a series finale, in a "it was a loop the whole time" sort of way.

[@jasonfitzpatrick2197]

Possibly my favourite single season of television.

[@zanderaw]

This scene absolutely murdered my belief in free will

[@Icidulon]

Please. The absurdity in saying this, entirely of your own volition. Why can't you accept that you are simply forced to make the best decision you can at any given point? An inability to reneg your regrets is not evidence of a lack of will. Rather, the consequences of the will are proof that the alternative is instead what cannot be experienced.

[@zanderaw]

@@Icidulon Being forced to make the best decision I can at any given point is the opposite of free will. I don't think I'm writing this of my own volition - the fact that I am is the result of ingrained habits and character traits that I've developed over many years. We are immensely complex individuals, but we don't decide who we are.

[@JoviBootlegs90]

There's something in Anthony's narration and voice. It would be a pleasure listen to him narrate a book pr a documentary, specially on philosophy or existentialism.

[@tsc9191]

We must stop living in loops. Our habits form the bars of the prison which holds us. Make "Someday" today!

[@audsunheatpumpgroup9812]

But we cannot, most of us cant, most people need the work-sleep-work loops, so we can get a income to support ourself and possibly a family. Dreaming we can travel a lot, but only have money to travel one or two times a year. The interesting thing is, even when we have a lot of money, people dont actually travel as much as they thought they would when they are poor, in fact, many rich people continue the work-life loop and are happy most of the time by meeting with friends on weekends instead of travelling. Exactly what the scene is saying, we need the loops, even we thought we can escape it if we got rich, but the truth is most people perfers the loop instead, great observation by the writer of the westworld series. What a great scene.

[@daltondecaprio9590]

@@audsunheatpumpgroup9812 underrated comment

[@audsunheatpumpgroup9812]

@@daltondecaprio9590 Thanks

[@Teelirious]

This is the very point that eats away at Rust Cohle in the 1st. season of True Detective. And me. And anyone who dwells upon it...

[@schumachersbatman5094]

Daniel Dennett wrote this scene.

[@Titanscreaming]

Season one was so fucking godly, i had rarily seen anything that good. Hokins coming across as master genious came over so well and so subtly...

[@pacotaco1246]

Scene is still jaw dropping

[@zachwalke6491]

This show helped shift my perception of reality and what’s really important in our daily lives

[@toaster9922]

I want to hope that Ford returns season four, inside Bernard in some way, but I don’t want to kid myself.

[@NikiWonoto26]

I'm from Indonesia. Westworld is probably the smartest, deepest show I've ever watched in recent years. Very thought-provoking & deeply philosophical. It is very *RARE* to watch shows like this. My deepest respect to the creator of this mind-blowing & existential series 👍

[@gurunhitam3414]

hey i'm from Indonesia too, it's good to swim and dive for our nature of existence here

[@MadKingOfMadaya]

I think that ford was saying something that would hurt bernard and therefore instead of hearing what ford actually said he heard "You are not missing anything at all". just like how bernard said "doesn't look like anything at all". I think ford said somethin vital

[@andrewbarrett1537]

top kek Holy cow that could well be

[@claudes.whitacre1241]

My God. Watch Hopkins in any scene, especially monologues. Every minute gesture and expression tells a story. Robert Redford had that same mastery, later in life.

[@TheElectrizantee]

Best scene

[@CurriedBat]

Tony is so amazing; I thought this would be the only role where I actually wished him unwell. Until the end.

[@Drahmin05]

I don't even watch this show, I just watch clips of Robert Ford just having a dialogue lol

[@Arkanj3l]

Given the Gnostic themes of the work, it's this scene that pushes Anthony Hopkins' role from G-d to Demiurge, that is the material obstruction of perceiving our divine origin.

[@inventist]

Such compassion and such detachment at the same time. The perfect scientist.

[@emperormouse5487]

THE WRITING IN THIS SHOW...I just can't.

[@christianmorningstar]

This is the best sci-fi serie ever made in the history of human kind

[@michaljagielo7448]

Season 1 was a masterpiece that does not required to be continued. I watched it three times. Season 2 on the other hand was horrible and I am not surprised they are going to make more. After all consciousness does not exist.

[@BlazingOwnager]

Man the first season of Westworld was a masterpiece. I truly wish they didn't make another.

[@dristmist7401]

I forgot how amazing the first season of this show was... It really fucked me up, I love when movies and series do this to me.

[@dschungelheissmann]

That monologue was full of meaning, after reading "the self illusion "

[@AikiNickAMV2]

If anyone's curious to read a bit further on the theme odf non-existence of consciousness, try William James (I fail to remember the particular works right now, but I think he discusses this in The Principles of Psychology) and perhaps even Bertrand Russell (The Analysis of Mind, for example). Russell accepted James' argument that consciousness is a rather useless and problematic notion. Getting rid of it in psychology and philosphy of mind may have benefits similar to getting rid of substance theory in metaphysics. You may also find David Hume interesting. "There is no threshold that makes us greater than the sum of our parts" is basically Hume's Bundle Theory.

[@GioGziro95]

კარგია, იუმის და რასელის ნამუშევრებით რომ ხარ დაინტერესებული; გამიხარდა ასეთი კომენტარის ნახვა. ბოლო ნაწილზე ჯ.ს. მილის იერარქია გამახსენდა „უტილიტარიზმიდან“, სადაც მილი ადამიანების და დანარჩენი ცხოველების განცდებს ადარებს და ასკვნის, რომ, მიუხედავად იმისა, რომ ბედნიერების/სიამოვნების და ტანჯვის/ტკივილის განცდა მათაც შეუძლიათ, ზოგიერთი განცდა უფრო მეტად აღმატებულია სხვებზე. მაგალითად, ადამიანებსაც და ბევრ სხვა ცხოველსაც შეგვიძლია ვიგრძნოთ სიამოვნება ჭამისგან, თუმცა (დედამიწაზე) მხოლოდ ადამიანებს შეგვიძლია მხატვრული ნაწარმოების კითხვიდან მივიღოთ ინტელექტუალური სიამოვნება. ეს ნაწილობრივ პასუხს სცემს იერემია ბენტამის წარმოსახვით ექსპერიმენტს „ბედნიერების აბის“ დალევის შესახებ; მილი ამას უარყოფითად აფასებს, რადგან ეს აბი შეგრძნებებს ხარისხობრივად აკნინებს (გვიზღუდავს შეგრძნებების ნაწილს). ამგვარად, მილის აზრით, არსებობს შეგრძნებათა იერარქია და უფლებები გამომდინარეობს იქიდან, თუ რა საფეხურზე იმყოფება ესა თუ ის არსება (მაგ., ჭიანჭველის შეგრძნებები, ხარისხობრივად, გაცილებით უფრო დაბალია, ვიდრე სპილოსი). პ.ს. გამარჯობა. :))

[@nickzardiashvili624]

გაგიმარჯოს ;) ხო, სწორი ხარ მილსზე. ცნობილია რომ ბენთამმა თქვა: "Poetry is as good as a push-pin" და მილსი ცოტა ფიქრის მერე არ დაეთანხმა მაგას. ოველთვის მიხარია ქართველების დანახვა აქ, მითუმეტეს როცა რაიმე ჭკვიანურს წერენ :)

[@sumlercorp8414]

Thank you

[@GrayRemnant]

This is the best dialogue ever written for television.

[@kynikersolon3882]

He phrased my own thoughts on the matter perfectly.

[@harrymartin1]

Same, Don't know why we as humans have to insist we're special.

[@aliveithink6985]

+Jib Maher I think I can explain why we _are_ special. For most living beings, AIs included, their "programming" (DNA, chemicals mimmicking emotions, neural networks, etc..) are laws. They cannot go against them under any circumstance. Even when Maeve left the train, she had to, she simply had no other way. Meanwhile, we humans do not think of those things as laws, but more like strong suggestions, that we can choose to ignore (Example: Suicide and celibacy, both things completely against our "programming"). That's what makes us special: We forge our own destiny. This also means that, sadly (Or fortunately, depending on who you ask), AIs will never reach true sentience, unless a genius somehow manages to come across a line of code that would allow them to go against their programming (And even then, they would still be obeying that line of code).

[@harrymartin1]

ariel sharpe Well, you kind of defeated your own argument. 1. Meave was programmed to "invade mainland", a directive she fully rejects by going back into the park. 2. How does failing our biological directives make us special? 3. Your free will is a consequence of a sequence of base pairs, or a "line of code" if you will, now it's more than one code working together that comprises our "free will", but the same idea can be extended to AI, and to a greater extent if more variables go into the decision making codes. Hence the idea they can exceed us in every possible facet.

[@aliveithink6985]

Jib Maher 1) Look: Here's the deal. AIs _CANNOT_ disobey their programming. That is just how they work. It just cannot be any other way. If Maeve truly did disobey her programming, then that is honestly BS and a plot hole in the story. 2) Because, unlike machines, we can _choose_ to fail our biological directives, wich, unlike in AIs, are mere suggestions and not rules. 3) The miraculous line of code that I mentioned that could theoretically make AIs disobey their programming is either non-existant at all (Like telling a battle robot to recognize between a civilian and a soldier, it is just not possible), or it is simply an "Override code", AKA a code that simply overrides all other directives, but if an AI followed that, it would still be forced to follow it instead of choosing. AIs can exceed us, certainly. Never doubted that. They could have an intelligence bigger than all of humanity together. But they have one weakness: They are predictable. They have to follow their codes, as I already explained. So if we know those codes, the war has been won, because we can just predict the AI's ever movement.

[@harrymartin1]

By the same definition humans cannot disobey their programming either, choice is a illusion granted by complexity.

[@thenman23]

im not ready for a rewatch of season 1. some of the best television ever

[@ladymecha8718]

This scene is so pivotal and is repeated over and over again in the following seasons.

[@pakistantehreekeinsaf6251]

Sir Anthony Hopkins' acting is something out of this world. Speechless💕💕💕

[@bkorodi1797]

And now it's just a random sci-fi with 2 Mary Sue terminators.

[@chidioko]

How true...!!!

[@barakapatrick1599]

It's sad......i enjoyed season one Soo much

[@LoganBluth]

"Mary Sue" would mean they're good at everything without any explanation. There's a very good explanation for why they're good at everything. Unless you also believe characters like Neo and Morpheus are Mary Sue's as well.

[@terragthegreat175]

@@LoganBluth they're still hollow characters who always seem to be in the right or are at least consistently depicted as being the moral superior to everyone else without ever having a moment of conflict with themselves or meaningful failure, which are hallmarks of a Mary Sue.

[@jr-bw1lt]

@@terragthegreat175 Dolores literally let herself be killed because she realised what a firebreathing turd she is They have flaws

[@YangBalanceYin]

This show was just ruthlessly carried by this man and the conversations he brought to the table.

[@eyeseer1]

The scariest part of this series is this is the introspection of AI that will exist in the future. Thinking machines challenging their identity and program while surrounded by the intelligence that created them.

[@sabrinae.6361]

One of the best shows of the decade imo

[@benjaminandersson2572]

This is Eliminative Materialism, endorsed by great philosophers such as Dan Dennett, Churchlands and Thomas Metzinger in one form or another. I would recommend "The Ego Tunnel" by Metzinger.

[@elxaime3792]

I got a chill down my spine, as I realized come Monday I would travel the same loop at work and do as I was told.

[@rmj8905]

Circuit

[@ZombieChimpanzee]

a lot of people take this view as nihilistic, but I really don't see it as that. is it nihilistic to be a realist? because that's what I interpreted this sentiment as. for all our research we seem to be unable to define consciousness, and its what many people use to draw the imaginary line that puts us above other animals. and then some new information comes along and places another animal above the line so we add more qualifiers to disqualify them, and it repeats. this ingrained fantasy that we're better than other animals seemed really juvenile to me about in middle school, when I started volunteering at a zoo, and saw apes interact with each other and guests. and when I learned from an aquarium dolphin keeper recently that Dolphins have their own language. we may be objectively smarter than many animals on earth, we're no more or less conscious than them. we have no inherent added value over the rest. just because something isn't uplifting and empowering to believe or know it doesn't make it nihilistic, and not being "special" isn't invalidating any of the experiences or feelings of human life.

[@smoovewitit]

Carl Deaton very nicely put

[@yokatta-f]

Nihilistic is fancy word for internet brainlets. Ford is not nihilistic I agree with you

[@MilanVVVVV]

Read Dostoevsky instead of Nietzsche, the two are very alike but Dostoevsky addressed the topic more clearly. But hey, how can you be a realist if you don't know what 'real' is, described by our consciousness or lack thereof? Not hating, just want to point that out. We're objectively more conscious of things if we're smarter because we can reason better and further understand them. Amoeba don't know shit about the world around them, they just 'see' bright lights and interact by preprogrammed instinct. The one thing that separates us from animals imo, is free will. Happy to discuss further

[@Readymywhip215]

Except we are more intelligent than animals. That wasn’t what Ford was talking about here

[@hizkiahansel9339]

GODDAMIT ROIGHT

[@ethyr]

I've had the same realization but he put it more eloquently than I ever could.

[@michaelmatherne9507]

There definitely is consciousness in the sense that there is awareness. A calculator has no awareness, and therefore doesn't even know that 2+2=4, despite it's vast ability to calculate vastly greater sums. I know I have consciousness because I have awareness. I don't just calculate that 2+2=4, I actually know it. The question, though, is what causes it and why? I mean, it doesn't seem like awareness is necessary for survival. In theory I could do everything I've ever done to survive while having no more awareness than a rock. Calculations and programmed reactions to those calculations seem like they should suffice. Yet we have evolved something quite miraculous via unknown means and for unknown purposes. In short, we seem to have a soul. But what is a soul? I don't buy that it is some magic source of awareness granted by the divine, but I must confess it certainly seems magical. I am by inclination an empiricist and an atheist, but I must confess I find awareness, i.e. the "soul", utterly baffling. I wouldn't believe in it except that I am it, and therefore have the most direct empirical evidence possible. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps consciousness is simply some innate property of matter. I mean, if I can't explain awareness mechanically, then perhaps it isn't mechanical, but an innate universal property. Perhaps the ancient animists had the right of it after all, sort of. Perhaps the calculator actually does know that 2+2=4, and even the rock has some alien form of consciousness. But if that's so, then why all the mechanical limits? Oblivion when I fall asleep, numbness if I sleep in a way that reduces circulation in my arm or leg, drugs and alcohol having profound mechanical effects on my consciousness. I seem to be mechanical in almost every respect except for this baffling miracle of awareness.

[@isaks7042]

Michael Matherne Wow a Human who thinks exaclty like me! But if you didnt have that consciousness. Why would your brain talk about it? Because it still would. right? I think consciousness exist when there are complex connections between The Universes materia and energy. Like in a brain. I dont think its something we animals have evovled. It must have been a thing that was already there. What if the Universe was created 3 seconds ago with all our memories. All the memories longer than 3 seconds ago are just fake. This IS BAFFLING

[@EvilUmagon]

My friend, I recommend searching up "Itzhak Bentov - from atom to cosmos" on youtube. Reason being that Izhak Bentov took a very mechanical view on consciousness whereas most people explain their observations about reality from a more "spiritual" perspective. Our society has created a very stern and limited view on what reality is. All this based on compartmentalized mainstream science for the masses. I'd be glad if you could come back and share your opinion on it.

[@Ikaros23]

"Every Host needs a backstory Bernard, you know that"... all that you say is just your " backstory". there is no ghost in the shell. The mind is just a super advanced organic computer. all that BS about 2+2 is just the program telling you that life is logical. the problem is life is not logical, its your brain thats logical. and it tricking you to think that life and the cosmos is like it...your analyse says notting about the world, but all about you and humans. . your 2+2 bs just makes the chaos of the cosmos more " human", more elegant and plessant. Storys/Lies to make you and all the others sleep at night. its just human narcissisem.

[@Mr33500]

Ikaros23 You are so edgy..

[@kevinmackey3166]

"In theory I could do everything I've ever done to survive while having no more awareness than a rock" -- what you're describing is known as a philosophical zombie (or p-zombie for short). Due to the existence of memory, we tend to think of consciousness as a continuous process, inseparable from sensory input, thought, and other human experiences. But if you were to lose all of your memories and all five senses, your awareness of self would persist, proving it is a separate phenomenon. For all we know, consciousness could be something that we have dozens of, each taking turns at the wheel. Because of the persistence of memory, there would be no awareness of a change taking place. Consciousness could even be a thing that jumps about at random from person to person, to animal, plant, or rock, before hitching a ride on a photon for the long journey through space to another world. There is a theory in quantum mechanics that consciousness is related to wave function collapse, which (in very broad terms) is the instant at which multiple potential states are reduced to one. Which, coincidentally or not, is very much like what happens whenever someone makes a decision.

[@Caitanyadasa108]

Consciousness is that which cannot be dismissed because dismissal itself is a conscious act.

[@TheWitness1001]

This is very deep, and true on so many levels. Thank you HBO for a majestic show.

[@lewystyles]

I miss this feeling we had in season 1 Westworld so damn much

[@crossdavidlee]

God this show took a dive in quality. It's sad. I'd forgotten how brilliant scenes like this were.

[@PCRevolt]

I don't think it's sad at all. As of Season 4, I love what this show has become. Season 2 and 3 were pretty mixed, especially 3, and it didn't really seem like the showrunners knew what they wanted it to be anymore, but Season 4 has a clarity of vision that I haven't seen since Season 1. I think trying to compare the different seasons of Westworld is like comparing apples to oranges; each season is like an entirely different show. It may not be the same show at all, but change isn't always a bad thing, and I was on the edge of my seat for the entire second half of Season 4. As someone who completely lost confidence in this show after Season 3, I've never seen a show have as big a turnaround as this one did in Season 4. It's exciting, it's fascinating, and most importantly it left me with questions each week. And the ending of the Season 4 finale has me more excited for the future of this show (assuming it gets renewed) than I've been in a long time. It may not have the same depth that it used to have, but it's the most entertaining show on TV right now, and that counts for something.

[@Jedislayer19]

"Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand *why* you made it." - The Oracle

[@tyrmyrmidon2846]

dank scene

[@Darhan62]

Consciousness implies, at least in principle, the ability to suffer and the possibility of having a will to live -- a desire to continue living. These two features of conscious beings grant them a moral status that nonconscious things, automatons, or philosophical zombies do not possess.

[@willchoumusic]

this dialogue and acting made the show. this stuff was sorely missing in season 2. i still have faith in season 3

[@vamsikgp]

Alas... S4 is the rock bottom

[@pertruvious6191]

Another great performance by Sir Anthony Hopkins

[@aguilayserpiente]

Maslow, Erickson, Piaget, Freud, Marx, Plato, and St. Augustine summarized and interpreted in 2 minutes.

[@rafaeljara4867]

This has nothing to do with Freud Lmao

[@aguilayserpiente]

Fear of freedom. Freud explains that humans create a religious figure to suppress having to reflect upon material relationships of power and act to overcome them to create a humane existence: Religion restricts this play of choice and adaptation, since it imposes equally on everyone its own path to the acquisition of happiness and protection from suffering. Its technique consists in depressing the value of life and distorting the picture of the real world in a delusional manner - which presupposes an intimidation of the intelligence. At this price, by forcibly fixing them in a state of psychical infantilism and by drawing them into a mass-delusion, religion succeeds in sparing many people an individual neurosis. But hardly anything more. There are, as we have said, many paths which may lead to such happiness as is attainable by men, but there is none which does so for certain. Even religion cannot keep its promise. If the believer finally sees himself obliged to speak of God’s ‘inscrutable decrees’, he is admitting that all that is left to him as a last possible consolation and source of pleasure in his suffering is an unconditional submission. And if he is prepared for that, he could probably have spared himself the detour he has made. Freud, Sigmund, "Civilization and Its Discontents," Ch. II. For Freud, fantasy always involves a flight from unpleasant reality. Fantasy provides a refuge for the neurotic person(s) who cannot face facts: …In neurosis…there is no lack of attempt to replace a disagreeable reality with one that is more in keeping with the subject’s wishes. This is made possible by the existence of phantasy, of a domain which became separated from the real external world at the time of the introduction of the reality principle…It is from the world of fantasy that the neurosis draws the material for its wishful construction, and usually finds the material along the path of regression to a more satisfying real past. Freud, Sigmund, “Future of an Illusion,” cited in Ross, Mary Ellen, “Illusion and Reality in Freud and Winnicott:: Toward a New Psychoanalytic Interpretation of Religion,” (Soundings: An Interdisciplinary Journal Soundings: An Interdisciplinary Journal, Vol. 73, No. 2/3, Summer/Fall 1990, Penn State Univ. Press), pp. 467-468 Freud identifies fantasy and illusion with neurosis, wish, and the dominance of the pleasure principle. Id. at 468. These things are in opposition to the acceptance of reality. Id. At the apex of the oedipal hierarchy sits God. Beneathm him are the political and religious fathers-priests and presidents-who rule over the father of each family who, in turn dominates his wife and children. Id. (It has an infantile prototype, of which it is in fact only the continuation. Id. For once before one has found oneself in a similar state of helplessness: as a small child, in relation to one’s parents. One had reason to fear them, and especially one’s father; and yet one was sure of his protection against the dangers one knew. Future of an Illusion, pp. 17). The heavenly father and the more temporal fathers have a reciprocal relationship: the image of a paternal deity both reflects the domination of powerful men on earth and actively reinforces their dominance by lending it legitimacy. Id. (The gods retain their threefold task: they must exorcize the terrors of nature, they must reconcile men to the cruelty of Fate, particularly as it is shown in death, and they must compensate them for the sufferings and privations which a civilized life in common has imposed on them. Future of an Illusion, pp. 17-18) Since the cosmos is patriarchal, the state is patriarchal as well. Id. While oedipal religion reinforces rigid and non-egalitarian social structures, it offers some security. Id. But, this security is achieved at a great cost: it requires that human avoid seeking freedom and autonomy and that we take our place within an oppressively authoritarian social order. Id. We become passive and blindly obedient to the various father figures who dominate our lives. Id. The world view of oedipal religion demands compliance; criticizing it is defined as blasphemy. Id. Any rebellion or assertion that the world-view oppresses at the base of the hierarchy-women, children, the poor- is strictly forbidden. Id. Our patriarchal religious renders us alienated and therefore powerless. Id. Ford the Creator of the Assemblyline explains to his industrial subject and creation: Humans fancy that there's something special about the way we perceive the world, and yet we live in loops as tight and as closed as the hosts do, *seldom questioning our choices, content, for the most part, to be told what to do next.* Indeed, humans are content to be told what to do to avoid hard choices and the heavy lifting of social transformation.

[@champ6277]

Bernard is making the exact existential questions that a human asks about themselves , we know what we are made of and how things go in our organisms and yet we cant give an explanation of where pain come from or our feelings come from human mind is still unexplored

[@GrammeStudio]

There's no Dana, only Zuul. There's no mind, only brain.

[@DC502_]

I so like watching Anthony Hopkins. It's a terrific experience for me.

[@dracowolfe305]

Lesson to be learnt from this scene is that language can make any point sound convincing if you are confident in your articulation. Something synonymous to consciousness exists, or else you wouldn’t be able to think - cogito ego sum

[@Lazypackmule]

You think, therefore you are This of course overlooks the fact that the simple act of being is not special- everything 'is', there isn't anything that isn't