Wet Underfloor Heating installation.

#ufh #heating #heatgeek
In this video we are installing wet underfloor heating system. It is a retrofit in an existing property with huge heat loss of 150 watts per square meter. We reduce the heat loss to 140 watts per square meter by installation of 100mm floor insulation.
This underfloor heating installation will also require supplementary heating in the form of radiators, as UFH on its own should not supply more than 100 watts per square meter.
To get better heat output, we install the pipework at 150 mm centres as opposed to 200 mm centres.
For quotes on heating and plumbing installation, please contact me here:
www.urbanplumbers.co.uk/
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[@Robert-ts2ef]

Very well explained even though most of it went over my head, you sound like a very knowledgeable and experienced guy.

[@aminsajawal3935]

Great the video Simon. Keep it up 👍🏻

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks, will do!

[@sdgelectronics]

Glad to see someone who understands closely coupled tees

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks!

[@scottpeters8142]

Great video! 👍

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks!

[@adamo19861986]

New to your channel but really good videos. 👍

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Welcome and thank you for watching!

[@kvaegenbjergvej]

Better with more insulation i the Walls and loft. Cant understand Why people i uk dont build there Homes better. Your job is perfect

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Those houses were built in 1890-1910! Quite often you are not allowed to insulate externally or even to change windows ! All due to conservation areas rules to protect existing buildings.

[@lekanshanu5512]

Awesome video Syzmon, all of the heatpumps we have installed to date a round 35units we don’t used pump sets or blending valves however we do a lot of site work and all the stats and cabling are done by electricians, would love to see how you would recommend setting on those heatmiser stats. We set them at 2-3 degrees above room design temp. Also some stats seem good for Solar gain . As for Underfloor heating suppliers , don’t get me started. Some of them are absolutely useless. Simple questions like what is the resistance to flow along your pipe ,designing Pipework diagrams for clients without out heat loss calculations !!! Drives me mad.

[@syncrosimon]

Very interesting, need to get into heat loss. Underfloor heating seems to be the way forward. Great video 👍👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@TheDickPuller]

Mate we were fitting UFH here in Jockoland 35 years ago. Sites of New Builds, Scotland was decades ahead of the rest of the UK. As the Geothermal Temperatures are fairly constant, you really wasted money on the Floor Insulation Dracula!! Personally, I’d ‘Close Band’ tubes at tight centres around the perimeter of the Rooms, areas with minimal traffic. The Floor Surface in these areas can be much higher & combat external wall Heat Loss better.👍👍 Regards Dick Puller

[@ShahedAhmed-er4ih]

@@TheDickPuller Nice, neat idea for large areas

[@TheDickPuller]

@@ShahedAhmed-er4ih Thanks Mate👍👍 it’s also good to boost very small areas like Shower Rooms & Bathrooms. We always Close Band loops around WC’s for example, nothing better than having lovely warm feet when you’re sitting having a shit!!

[@VCanisMajorisY]

@@TheDickPuller Council flats in England had underfloor heating 40 years ago in some builds.

[@dorsetengineering]

I buy all my eurocones (and press fittings for CU and mlcp) from natural green heat, service is spot on.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I buy them from Direct Plumbing Supplies, one with a blue van logo. Much cheaper than anywhere else.

[@dorsetengineering]

@@UrbanPlumbers cheers, I'll check them out.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@dorsetengineering directplumbingsupplies.com/

[@antoniogalluccio4213]

Can you also explain the difference between an UFH with and without screed and why you would choose one over an other?

[@nazkhan182]

Very good question. I'm also looking for the answer. Good video.

[@antoniogalluccio4213]

@@zlmdragon. versus dry UFH (meaning no screed). It is done with something called spreader plates, and used where the flooring nature isn't concrete but floating like joist and floorboard (typical in countries not subject to earthquakes like UK, Some USA and Canada. Europe only has concrete flooring for obvious reasons. The dry one can also be used on concrete flooring by the way. There are advantages and disadvantages on both; so it needs to carefully taken some parameters into consideration to determine which one is gonna suit your particular needs.

[@reusinkinstallatietechniek6256]

hello this is Miak frome Amsterdam(Holland) why thit you lay the tube in Meander(patternn) and not like a snailhouse pattern???? its more efficent like that

[@mcDarkD]

put some tattoos on his face he's a sith. absolutley brilliant. and not just talking about the work we see. someone took the time to edit the audio and sort of match it up. why is the vaillant plastic so yellow? same as salus i guess? i know you wouldnt. i have an 18yr old vaillant i still look after and that boiler is older than that............im guessing.

[@antoniogalluccio4213]

Can you confirm that without actuators you need to have the same temp in all the rooms served by the same manifold?. Can each single coil be isolated turning off flow switch at the top and isolation at the bottom of your manifold?

[@Candisa]

You don't have to have the same temperature in all the rooms connected to the same manifolds, you can take reference with a room stat in 1 room, control the zone valve of that manifold with it, and adjust the flow of the loops in the other rooms to have more or less heat. You do have to realize doing it this way is like having non-thermostatic valves on radiators in rooms without a room-stat: the heat loss of each room is variable depending on outside temperature, ventilation, temperature of surrounding rooms, leaving doors open... and there may be other heat sources in those rooms like appliances or occupancy, so the temperature difference between rooms may fluctuate depending on the circumstances, no matter if you initially set that difference to 5°C or 0°C. F.e.: if you share a manifold without actuators between the living room that has rooms above it and the room-stat in it and a closed off kitchen with a flat roof above it and you want it to be a few degrees colder in the kitchen, you can initially set it up like that, but the temperature in the kitchen will change. On a sunnier day the flat roof will introduce more heat, and cooking also introduces more heat, but the underfloor heating won't compensate for it so if the living room demands heat it will keep pumping heat into the kitchen as well. When it's freezing cold and cloudy outside, the heat loss through that flat roof above the kitchen will be higher making it colder without the underfloor heating compensating for it. When you have 10 warm-blooded people enjoying table-top grilling in the living room the heating will probably turn off until a long time after the guests are gone no matter how cold it is outside, but the kitchen that has only you getting some drinks or salads once in a while will also have its heating off and cool down. You could always try, and install actuators and wireless room stats later if it doesn't work out (or run cables to blanking plates if you don't want to be limited to wireless).

[@johnnyfandango1625]

Your comment on Salus controls could not be more true!! I would not touch them. I noticed you were fitting ESI controls. Are they okay?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes Salus are evil 🦹‍♀️:) - ESI seem very good value for money. Open Therm for £48!

[@canibrahim7827]

They are just as bad as Salus ! I used to use them 5 - 6 years ago replaced half of the ones i fitted

[@UrbanPlumbers]

What was wrong with them?

[@canibrahim7827]

The receivers would not comunicate with the boiler.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I had one like that out of the box. At least they are fine when they are working. Salus never works correctly.

[@andrewmillwardwatford9410]

Ccts at the manifold is a misunderstanding of a product supplied by Caleffi only for non condensing boilers. Ccts at the boiler is the correct application for ufh systems. Remember that this only matters on systems with low temperature controls like weather compensation. With high temperature systems the flow arriving at thea manifold will be 20c or more higher than the ufh return and as a result the ufh will require less flow that a radiator at dt20. Remember never use ccts at the manifold ( very few exceptions ) with the new part l requirements these simple design principles will be vital.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I need for ccts with new part L, your rads will have the same temp as UFH now? Run rads and UFH at dt10?

[@andrewmillwardwatford9410]

@@UrbanPlumbers would be ashame if your ufh had to run as hot at your radiators imo. You would need room stats on the ufh and it would not be great for a heat pump upgrade imo. I've seen a lot of text talking about ufh and rads at same temperature though, do you think that's really a good idea ?

[@fastusbombastus2085]

why do you need additional water pump?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Do you mean ufh manifold pumps?

[@MM2009]

floor temp should not exceed 24deC, we use only radiant heat. higher temp in the bathroom only. 30degC will give you unwanted convection, a lot of unwanted air movement and swollen feet. these are not houses, they are caves, pretty sure decent tent is more heat efficient than this 😂😂😂

[@UrbanPlumbers]

where do you ger 24C? . CIBISE guide states 29C as maxium floor temp. Those houses are over 200 years old, so they are what they are.

[@TheDickPuller]

You wasted money with too much Floor Insulation Dracula. Geothermal Temperatures are fairly stable, so downward losses are minimal. Close Band tubes around the perimeter of the rooms, in limited traffic areas, this will increase the surface temperature in these areas, combat External Wall heat loss. I’d avoid conventional radiators, to much convection in a room full of radiant heat.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Insulation wasn’t really about the heat loss here. As I said in the video, it only lowers heat loss by 10 watts / m2. It was about building the level up by 170mm so we could use screed instead of an overlay system Also I got flows going around external walls close to the perimeter as well.

[@tomhilditch3882]

Thats interesting, But with the average ground temperature being around 12° in the south of England that will mean a Large DT between the slab of 28° this will mean the output of the floor will be less as X amount will be going downwards. So actually the Insulation is very important especially with this job when the Heatloss is so great and the floor cannot emit enough to cover it.

[@TheDickPuller]

@@tomhilditch3882 It’s a big difference between an external temperature of -6 Degrees C & a stable 12Degrees C. Also, it’s presumed there was an existing uninsulated concrete Slab, so that would also be taken into consideration when calculating the Downwards U Value. Also, a 28Degree C surface temperature would be too high in most areas of the Floor. 24-26 would be the optimum surface temperature & a 7Degree Delta T on the Loop F&R. I did say ‘too much’, can I recommend you wear your ‘readers’ before commenting??!! Remember UFH is a Radiant Heat, so in 19Degrees C can feel like 21-22. It in effect counter acts our body Radiant heat loss. Traditionally, UFH supply companies ‘oversize’ systems, it sells more tube & bigger manifolds!!

[@TheDickPuller]

@@UrbanPlumbers Close Banding is not the same as running the loop flow around the perimeter Dracula dear boy!! Google it son, you’ll be more enlightened. Also, with a loop Delta T of only 7Degrees C, there will be not noticeable difference in the surface temperature. With UFH the loop Mean Water Temperature is your only true indication of the surface temperature you’ll achieve. Mate, we’ve been installing Domestic UFH here Jockoland for 30-40 years before it was considered in other parts of the UK. We have lower temperatures to combat & infinitely more experience!!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

So what’s that close banding then?