Whales are Fish (and Everything Else is Beetles) with Lindsay Nikole

[@thethoughtemporium]

Famously, the catholic church declared beaver to be fish, so it could be consumed during lent.

[@CrabRangoonSortaGuy]

Well if it isn't the thought emporium. Thought I smelled something.

[@NijosoSefzaps]

Taxonomically, all mammals are fish. Therefore meat is actually fine during lent. The only thing you can't eat during lent is insects, I guess?

[@piccalillipit9211]

You need to get Lindsey on - its the cool new thing to do. Also we need to get her famous enough to replace David Attenborough for the new generation.

[@nigeldodds624]

@@NijosoSefzaps I always figured this was in response to shellfish allergies 2000 years ago. They saw a guy eat a sea bug one time and he proceeded to choke and die so the banned it outright.

[@MissBabyNe]

I thought it was capybara not beavers.

[@chrisball3778]

"The creator, if he exists, has an inordinate fondness for beetles"- quote attributed to British biologist John Haldane, when asked if his studies had told him anything about the mind of God.

[@Jontman42]

I can imagine the creator just quickly designing another silly little beetle when they're struggling for inspiration. Easy to just doodle one of those out.

[@cshell2222]

@@Jontman42 🤣

[@Eloraurora]

​@@Jontman42 I think there's a Discworld bit on this theme, but he also uses beetle-creation as stress relief.

[@dbolan]

Learned this quote from The Boilerplate Rhino by David Quammen, which I highly recommend. If you enjoy fine literature like The Anthropocene Reviewed, you'll probably also like this essay collection too.

[@hairyneil]

Ha! Beat me to it

[@jdwebb42]

“This’ll get edited heavily.” Release the full cut!!!

[@untappedinkwell]

oooo maybe we're gonna get a full cut Hank's channel video

[@sarahnewton2267]

I second releasing the full cut!!! On hankschannel or wherever

[@supershinigami1]

Release the Animal Sex Cut!!

[@pixelpantsplay]

YES PLEASE! Hank and Lindsay are two of my favorite creators, I would LOVE to listen to this whole conversation!

[@alvimpaulo]

NO CUT ZONE!

[@intoxicary]

Lindsay makes the best zoological content on youtube That We Know Of.

[@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst]

It's not heinous.

[@procrastinator99]

Facts. That we know of.

[@DJFracus]

she's good, but Clint's Reptiles is my GOAT

[@conlon4332]

@@DJFracus YESS!! So glad to find someone else here who loves him!

[@Animefanaticcc]

For real 😂❤❤❤

[@atmreads]

lindsey in a vlogbrothers video is not something i knew i needed in my life but i'm so here for it

[@povertymidas]

it is glorious

[@joeybelasco]

SERIOUSLY 10/10 COLLABORATION

[@bottyhammer]

Absolutely!

[@willow8657]

Yess I know right?!

[@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst]

it was not heinous.

[@SilliS]

IQ 50: Whales are fish. IQ 100: NOOO WHALES ARE NOT FISH!!! IQ 150: Whales are fish.

[@capntizzy9029]

Stephen J Gould: There is no such thing as a fish.

[@myladycasagrande863]

Whatever identifies as a fish is a fish; don't impose your taxonomic labels on other species!

[@omri9325]

Kanye West is a fish

[@GSBarlev]

@@omri9325 I miss the old Kanye / the pre-Tiktaalik Kanye

[@dariuslegacy3406]

@@GSBarlevCoelacanth Kanye

[@Josh-ub5ht]

1:00 i cannot hear the word 'Weevil' and not immediately imagine Zac Oyama's face saying "The weevil in the steeple is found among the people"

[@GSBarlev]

I cannot see that image of Tiktaalik and not immediately think of Lindsay saying, "Read my *LIPS,* this is a _NO BONE ZONE!"_

[@odester]

oh my god that’s my favorite make some noise bit of all time i think

[@da_chimnken]

OH MY GOD YES its all connected

[@plenty-of-stardust]

Does anyone know what episode that's from? I LOVE weevils and now I really want to see that 😂 Edit: I just started watching compilations and I found it! My day is made!! For other curious weevil lovers it's in "my fav noise boys bits" posted by francis

[@FirstNameBunchANumbers]

But what about the Doctor Who spinoff Torchwood

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

What they're both overlooking is that Fish and Beetles are both just highly evolved worms themselves. The first Arthropods were really just worms that grew hard parts on the outside to hold everything together, whereaas the first Cordates were just worms that grew a little hard bit on the inside for everything else to attach to.

[@joshuasgameplays9850]

When you get down to it, basically all animals are just extremely derived worms. Worms all the way down. We all came from worms, and we all become crabs.

[@nathdm9]

@@joshuasgameplays9850 I just love your comment for so many reasons.

[@danilooliveira6580]

every bilaterian has a body plan that is just a tube, and they develop in segments. meaning all bilaterian animals are worms.

[@danilooliveira6580]

@@joshuasgameplays9850 not all animals, just all bilaterians. other clades like corals and jellyfishes have a completely different body plan, and they didn't evolve from worms. all bilaterians on the other hand have a body plan that is just a tube, and develop in segments. meaning they are all worms.

[@queueueueueueue]

this dude's on another plane of thought. we're not ready for you

[@LemonColoredCrayon]

I see Hank and Lindsey Nikole. Win win.

[@riversoblivionstudios]

"I think you...have...to...live..." *reluctantly* "...in the water... to be a fish??" 😂😂😂

[@MusikCassette]

I disagree with that

[@iceran9822]

@@MusikCassette I mean, he also disagreed with that a few seconds after lol

[@xenno8496]

​@MusikCassette Lol i think even Hanks brain disagreed with that 😂

[@gillesdelatoet]

I lost my mom to a brain tumor last month, hearing you say life is heinous here in the context of evolution and the procreation of worms greatly warmed my spirit ❤ thanks

[@jordan-curls]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope that you are able to look for the light-soaked days and accept them when they come.

[@Andrew_Bradshaw]

Hank: "This will get Edited Heavily" Also Hank: Edits it in specifically

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

Not to be too heavy on main, but this is exactly how honest intelligent discussions happen. Well-informed folks rolling around ideas that they don't necessarily have all the information to support, to see how well existing information they don't know supports or doesn't support it. No 'gotchas', no 'only joking, unless', no bad-faith, no fear of looking silly or losing face - just two people tossing around ideas and cool information and learning from the way their own specializations and experiences and the others' interact. This is the good stuff. :)

[@felixrobertson534]

I thought the Beatles' competitive advantage was to do with writing 4-chord progressions! You learn something new every day!

[@MartijnVos]

There are almost as many different Beatle chord progressions as there are species of beetles.

[@VidaxTheDragonMage]

Beetles are friend shaped = success

[@GSBarlev]

Lindsay working in her trademark "RATS" at 3:14 *had* to be intentional. (Thank you 🐀)

[@tayet6875]

And it was greatly appreciated!

[@procrastinator99]

Also heinous! Can't forget heinous.

[@maskedmallard537]

Since it came at 3:14, does that make them pi-rat(e)s? 😁

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

Im a simple man. I see two of my favorite nerds in the same video, I click.

[@JoelCornah]

I worked in the zoology department at Oxford University during Covid, so was filming experiments and such for students online. There was one lesson about Beetles and I asked the professor's favourite beetle. He gave an answer that was normal and scientific. When he asked me, I said Ringo.

[@Billy-qo7ts]

this is very funny !!!!!!!!!!!!! I like this joke a lot!

[@pattheplanter]

Ringo was the Beat in the Beatles.

[@onceuponamelody]

The most weevil-like Beatle to be sure.

[@GSBarlev]

@@JoelCornah According to the BBC, we closed the loop in 2020 when citizen scientists decided to name a newly discovered species _Ptomaphagus thebeatle._

[@spdcrzy]

@@GSBarlev I wasn't sure whether I hoped this was real or a troll. Now that I know it's real, I can't decide whether I like it or hate it.

[@MehrGills]

I feel so smart rn. Whenever lindey said she was in Montana recently, I guessed she would hang out with hank. I didn't know we'd get a video from it too

[@Sydney-Casket-Base]

“Lindey” 😭

[@MehrGills]

@Sydney-Casket-Base oh, whoops 😅. Didn't even notice until now that I missed the s.

[@Sydney-Casket-Base]

@ and the “a”

[@MehrGills]

@Sydney-Casket-Base ah, that's just me being an idiot and not double checking e vs a. I couldn't remember correctly apparently. So I'm dumb and can't even spell my incorrect spellings right

[@etienneporras7252]

5:54 If THAT was the "heavily edited" version, what adventure was the original???

[@m0nkEz]

This is also the only thing I took away from this video.

[@zoereidinger]

I was hoping he was going to say he put the whole thing on hanks channel

[@crystalstellwagen2600]

give 👏 us 👏 the 👏 unedited 👏 version!

[@SweeneySays]

Whenever you have to assure each other that the conversation is being edited you know you're really on one.

[@corhydron111]

THAT WE KNOW OF

[@BiGGGs00]

There we go, had to scroll way too far to find this.

[@gussnarp]

My favorite weird cladistic fact is that apes are monkeys. I used to be that guy who said chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys and got annoyed at parents at the zoo telling their kids to "look at the monkey" at the bonobo exhibit. But in the cladistic sense, apes ARE monkeys, just as we and whales are fish. All of which drives my kids nuts. They don't like having their categories upended.

[@jonharvey6277]

Just a tip if you ever see an orangutan in a library DON'T use the m word

[@EcceJack]

​@@jonharvey6277 definitely a good tip 😂 I was going to say that I see a similar issue in astronomy, with e.g. the Pluto thing (and with kids much younger than Pluto's... relabelling!), not wanting to accept that people just make up categories that work as well as they can...... and that's it. Things are fuzzy, things are also other things, because it's just us trying to put neat little labels on bits of an infinity variable universe

[@gussnarp]

@@jonharvey6277 CaptainAmericaIUnderstoodThatReference.gif

[@gussnarp]

@@EcceJack Yeah, it's definitely a question of how and why we categorize things. Even the whole "is a hot dog a sandwich" thing is ultimately about how arbitrary our categories can be. And sometimes different categorization schemes can be useful in different ways.

[@pattheplanter]

@@jonharvey6277 It would be a Terryble mistake.

[@algcclark]

Hank I don't know if you were aware of this but there's a delightful little book on the subject of what makes fish fish (and why there are no fish) by Lulu Miller which doubles as a biography of David Starr Jordan, famed student of fish, and triples as a portrait of grief and finding purpose in a meaningless world. It's called Fish Don't Exist highly highly recommend! One of my favorite books I've read this year.

[@Kaitybardot]

I just bought the audio book because of your suggestion! Just listening to the sample was great, I’m so excited. Thank you!

[@jonnie1410]

Yes! This was exactly my thought. And Why Fish Don’t Exist is one of my all time favorite books!

[@bayleebaxter9475]

I was really down tonight mentally and seeing two of my comfort internet educational creators collaborating made me smile

[@TylerZed]

I discovered Lindsay's stuff super recently from just a blind search for Biology/Evolution content and dang! So happy to see her here and know she's doing SciShow stuff!

[@KayKayLaLa.]

Totally just clicked on this video because I saw Lindsay Nikole 🤣

[@OutcastAngelV]

THE CROSSOVER I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. I didn't put this on my 2024 bingo card, but I'm so happy right now.

[@Variocom]

YAAAAS LINDSAY AND A GREENE TOGETHER?!? Never thought I'd see the day. So proud of ya, girl, you've come so far ❤

[@captain_eaglefort]

Nothing is quite as sweet as when you get two very intelligent people who have clear passion for knowledge in the same room and set them to talking.

[@kylecorn5056]

People like Lindsay, Clint Laidlaw, and all of the dinosaur KZbin people are why I LOVE learning about Taxonomy. Was never good at that stuff in school, but y'all made this stuff both fun and understandable

[@minutes8354]

IT"S A CROSSOVER EPISODE!

[@davidalexallen]

Hank wanting to write a book about animal sex is definitely on-brand for the channel that published the world's best video on giraffe sex.

[@sethswheelhouse]

I would love to read How Animals F*** by Hank Green, some day....

[@JoelCarli]

Stephen J. Gould famously said 'there is no such thing as a fish'. The point is that we use the term 'fish' for species that have little to nothing to do with each other. There's a world of difference between a seahorse, a sturgeon, a tiger shark and a flounder. There are some fish that are more related to land animals than to other fish. All this to say that there is no such thing as a fish (that we know of).

[@punkdigerati]

It's similar to the term vegetable, it's just a convenience.

[@andrxw8097]

Yeah! The argument Hank is making shows the silliness of the term "fish." Surprised this isn't higher up

[@KasumiRINA]

Well he sounds like an idiot, like one of those "what is a woman" weirdos. We need to bring back the famous Polish horse definition (Everyone Knows What a Horse Is) to clap back at these dweebs.

[@andrybak]

Such a famous fact, they made over 500 podcast episodes about it. (No Such Thing as a Fish is a podcast about interesting facts. I recommend starting at the first episode, all of them are great.)

[@JoelCarli]

@@andrybak Yes! Made by the QI crew

[@coloripple]

Thank you so much for introducing me to Acorn Weevils! They're my new favourite animal now!

[@frankheilingbrunner7852]

In that case, this is for you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJfXeI2ZqrOUja8

[@GSBarlev]

This is so cool. What an awesome opportunity to sit down and collaborate with one of your heroes. If I were Hank, I would have been out-of-my-mind nervous!

[@RubbittTheBruise]

Lots of love for Lindsay. Engaging, not only in content, but style too. And what style!

[@Xochilisdead]

Great moment of two exceptionally intelligent and fun people bouncing idea off each other. Thank you for the video. I adore you both!!

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

LINDSEY NIKOLE????? YEAAAAHHH

[@wrestlersmith97]

3:06 hank is realizing that hes not going to get the definitive answer like he wanted

[@bethsmith3421]

I can't imagine a better way to spend time than having a conversation on almost any topic with Hank Green. I love how easily the conversation flowed from one topic to another and that you will discuss anything. I hope you have conversations like this with your son (level appropriate) and continue to do so his whole life.

[@Pingviinimursu]

OMG THIS IS THE COOLEST COLLAB (that we know of) LOVE TO SEE YOU BOTH HERE!!

[@the-girl-of-her-dreams]

Broooo Lindsey's vibe suits vlogbrothers so much also i love how the youtubers i watch always collab with each other, i think i have a youtube type. I love hank lifting up smaller creators

[@KatherineHugs]

Yes, loving this collaboration!! Thanks Hank! And Lindsay!

[@ArcaneCastle]

This was a collab I never thought I needed and I’m so happy it happened because I did in fact need it. You guys are the best! Thanks so much for doing what you’re doing!

[@Stefan-ih9kd]

this was a treat, you guys are definitely near the center of my interest-venn diagram, great vid hank and lindsay

[@NoSlow78]

So happy Lindsay is getting the exposure she deserves!

[@Squiddlezz]

I love Lindsay so much that I excitedly watched the chimp war video before I even saw this on my feed

[@byula809]

Two of my favourites nerd icons just having the most wholesome time together

[@hunterG60k]

I could watch you guys trade weird animal facts for hours :)

[@henryisnotafraid]

This kind of collab stuff bringing me a lot of joy

[@cheddarbeansoup]

The collab I always wanted AND needed!

[@rhiannonm8132]

YOOO THE CROSSOVERS JUST KEEP COMING

[@ElizabethLopez-hx6xv]

Fun fact about beetles being the reigning champions species-wise. I’ve heard some really convincing arguments that wasps are actually the reigning champions. (Wasps being a paraphyletic group so maybe this is kinda cheating 👀) Bc wasps are what you generally think of when you hear the word (mud daubers, paper wasps, sand wasps, etc) but a huge number of them are parasitic. And parasites are generally really super species specific. Parasitic wasps parasitize many species of plants (galls) but also insects and eggs of basically any group of insects *including beetles*. So it’s not beyond imagination to consider we live in a world where there is one species of parasitic wasp per beetle which brings you to a tie. And then you add in all the parasites of other orders of insects, gall makers, and even further some exhibit hyperparasitism which is when a parasitic wasp parasitizes a wasp that has already parasitized an insect/plant. The issue is that these wasps are so unbelievably tiny and difficult to find that there’s very little know of them. Many species are known by like one single specimen so the theory is that it’s more of a sampling/observation bias that beetles are so well represented in the number of all known species.

[@Adriell.h.b.]

I love Lindsay Nikole! I'm so glad you two worked together!!

[@gasdive]

Thankyou. I'm so tired of idiots yelling at me when I point out "whales aren't fish, they're mammals" is wrong. Now I can just point them to you.

[@steves9250]

Whales are mammals. But mammals are fish apparently.

[@gasdive]

@steves9250 yep.

[@rowanemilygreaves5369]

I am so glad you too got together for a conversation!! I love you guys!! X

[@m3grim]

2:10 Hank, you're getting close to the argument posed by Stephen Jay Gould: there is no such thing as a fish. Shout out to Stephen Fry and QI!

[@Graelcase]

I believe Hank has been on the QI adjacent podcast "No such thing as a fish".

[@m3grim]

@@Graelcase I forgot that podcast existed! Gotta update my podcatcher. 👌👌

[@Music-rd3xq]

This was fantastic! Weirdly, I found Lindsay’s channel just a few weeks before seeing this video! I’d love to see more crossovers, the back and forth was great!

[@gumbyno5808]

Lindsay Nikole is awesome, this is the best collab! (That we know of)

[@aniasparkle]

I love whenever you do these little side by side talks with people. You have such great charisma, and the conversations always seem so fun :)

[@iamthebubblelady]

I LOVE THIS! I’ve loved scishow and Hank for a while now and just recently got through watching Lindsey’s catalog. I wish there was an unedited version cuz that convo was lit.

[@candmlyons]

"Go Into the Water" by Dethklok agrees with your hope that we return to the sea!

[@Lack_Of_Interest]

Poseidon also wants us to "get in the water."

[@bigboxofstuff]

I watched the deep dive and was saddened that she never said "Rats!" but I got my wish on this short video! Thank you guys so much for bringing her on, it can only help both of you!

[@skylerwitherspoon]

"it's your brother hank" really threw me off, two extra words in there??? 😦

[@joshgoldenberg4398]

To differentiate from Dave

[@pattheplanter]

Perhaps they have met another Hank?

[@phlanxsmurf]

Love this video. Raw form conversation between brilliant folks. Thanks.

[@PeopleAreFish]

People Are Fish would be a good name for a paleo / zoology podcast... 👀

[@pattheplanter]

Fish on Bicycles.

[@PeopleAreFish]

@pattheplanter that would also be an exceptional name 😂😂😂😂

[@CasaVipera]

There already is "no such thing as a fish"

[@PeopleAreFish]

@@CasaVipera YEAH WELL MY THING IS DIFFERENT 😭

[@xeago]

I love this! Thanks for the collab!!!

[@Rayowag]

I absolutely love her videos and her "...that we know of" phrase 😅

[@lyle7655]

THIS IS THE COLLAB OF A CENTURY I HAVE NO ONE TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS I LOVE BOTH OF YALL SO MUCH

[@conlon4332]

I assumed when I saw this it would be with Clint's Reptiles. Whales being fish is a big thing he talks about, and unintuitive phylogeny in general. A lot of this is the type of stuff he talks about, he also has two videos on weird animal sex. You should really get him on, Hank!

[@xian63]

OMGG THE CROSSOVER I NEVER EXPECT BUT AM SO EXCITED FOR I LOVE THIS

[@MrFleem]

Mudskippers are fish in every sense, but they spend a lot of time not in the water.

[@Analia-t4k]

Looking forward for your next upload!

[@Tyflighter]

I LOVE that you did something together with Linsay Nikole!

[@Alex-js5lg]

4:12 "Do you think we could ever get back ... and become a water animal?" Why do you think some of the UFO stories involve them coming into/out of the ocean?

[@ChickenNugNugz2]

Because so much of the ocean bed and contents are unmapped, giving space for grifters, liars and psudeoscience to make money off of selling sci-fi. It's essentially the same as the God of the gaps arguments from antiquity

[@RowanAvery1375]

I've been waiting for this Collab! It's so exciting seeing my favorite science people make content together!

[@kayliehansen4831]

Oh my gosh you guys collabed? This is the best day I'm so excited rn

[@joelpeard2252]

Makes me so happy to see you both in the same moments!

[@isabellajohnson956]

Okay Lindsay is my new obsession and this is the crossover I didn’t know I needed.

[@AtarGG]

Yeeeesss. I needed this collab. Ty very much.❤❤❤❤

[@williamjennett7075]

This was the greatest thing i didnt know i needed thanks both of you

[@paigecook4750]

YAY! Thanks for having Lindsay she’s so great!

[@sekishudai]

Yeeeaaaahhh Go Lindsay ! So glad to see you all around youtube ^^

[@StormsEyeScepter]

This is the collab I didn't know i needed but now I do

[@kitkat7615]

Yes!!! Two of my absolute faves!! A crossover I hadn't even imagined!!!

[@matthewsharp9395]

So awesome seeing you two in the same video. Made my day

[@catbojangles]

I am here asking respectfully for a directors cut. Also Hank I hope you write that book at some point, it sounds wild. 10/10 would purchase and display proudly.

[@frostrose8550]

YESSSSSSS! I HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR THIS COLLAB!!

[@youruniquehandle2]

This was a delightfully positive video. Thanks Hank, I needed this.

[@nope2095]

Yessssss! That we know of so far

[@OnThatSillyPath]

5:29 The moment I heard the word worm I knew that this conversation would likely take place.

[@jasper265]

Lindsey is absolutely awesome. I've not watched nearly enough of her videos...

[@Chuckyfabs]

Love you both!! Fantastic collab

[@comradekhaleesi]

the collab i didn’t know i needed but i am So Glad Exists

[@sobreaver]

Greatest collab since a while !!! You guys rock ! Together you guys are nuclear !! Give 5 more min to that discussion and yeaaa no amount of cut would suffice XD

[@5THGENIW]

Lindsay looks great on the expensive cameras. She doesn't laugh as much in her videos either, the on screen chemistry here is great she should do in person stuff with more creators.

[@williamsin41]

These two together is just the best! ❤🙏❤🙏❤

[@iZORAable]

I adore you both so much 😭 i didn't know how much i needed this