What am I doing wrong with my sourdough?

[@bigrob1887]

1) Assuming your starter is active enough, the hardest part of sourdough baking is perfecting the bulk fermentation and proof fermentation stages. Keeping the temperature the same and recording the time spent in bulk fermentation will help a lot until you nail it. Shaping also plays a way bigger role in the final product than you think. Your goal should be to come out of bulk fermentation with a relatively 'strong' dough near it's peak/slightly before it is over fermented, then you'll only need to shape it once. If you come out of bulk fermentation with a 'weak' dough/slightly over fermented (all is not lost), but you'll have to shape the dough twice (pre-shape/final shape). The difference between weak and strong dough unfortunately comes with experience, but it should come out of the bulk stage looking 'puffy' or 'pillowy'. Yours didn't look very inflated but it's always hard to tell from a video. 2) I don't see a problem with your stretching and folding. However, remember that coil folds have to be done more gently than stretch and folds because at this point the gluten is more hydrated and can tear easier which can ruin all the progress you've made with the stretch and folds. *Look at the gluten, make sure it's stretching and not tearing. Be gentle. Yes, a heavier bowl will make life much easier. Also be more gentle with the dough when transferring it to the parchment paper, it's not a weight you're throwing around at the gym, lol. Using a smaller bowl will help with this. *Try using butter, or a cooking oil to coat the entire bowl and then wipe out the extra with a paper towel, then dust generously with rice flower. The oil helps the rice flower stick to the bowl and releases much better than a tea towel! *It's a lot easier to score the dough before putting it in the dutchy. For a more crunchy crust, just bake longer at a slightly lower temp., try the broil setting. Hope this helps, Good luck. Almost forgot, take a small sample piece of dough in the beginning, put it into a tall shot glass (or something of the sort) and press it to the bottom. Mark the height of the dough with an elastic, tape, or dry erase marker. The increase in dough size will allow you to gauge how far along the dough is in the fermentation cycle.

[@justawoodworkher]

YES!! thank you! I definitely have not let it bulk ferment for long enough. Everything I've watched just kept saying "a couple hours or until it doubles in size" to me the dough looked double... but it's in a large stainless steel bowl... so it doesn't really help. I had no clue it needs hours. But now I know wha to look for and keep my times all lined up. I did like the gym weight comment haha. Honestly didn't think I threw it that hard, but after rewatching... yes I smacked it down, OOPS! I appreciate all the info. I have another leaven with a 5:5:1 set for tomorrow to use. I think this next loaf will be the one where I actually get it right! Fingers crossed

[@bigrob1887]

@@justawoodworkher Right on. Sorry for the long post, lol. There's so much information out there that it becomes confusing. Many ways to skin a cat. At the end of the day just do what works best for you, Cheers.

[@AngelaGranaVarela]

Hi! I’ve been making sourdough for a few months and have a few pointers! About the levain, we didn’t see it, as you said, but it should be in the sweet spot, where it hasn’t dropped too much, and the top doesn’t have a dome shape anymore and it looks kinda flat. If you smell it, it shouldn’t smell too acidic yet, though with you ratios I think that’d be unlikely. The autolyse part happens when you mix the water and flour only, without the levain. Once you add the levain, you’re already into bulk fermentation. It can be helpful to use a 2 or 3 hour autolyse (it can even be longer) to let the dough start to develop a gluten structure before you even start doing any stretch and folds. But yeah, it happens before the levain and the salt! You hydration level seems to be 65%, which is a sweet spot for your first few loaves. You could experiment with doing a 70% loaf and see if it ferments better. Once you add the salt and extra bit of water, I suggest you work it quite a bit more, like for 3 to 5 minutes, folding it continously until it gives too much resistance to continue doing it. This really helps you create structure from the very beginning. Your stretch and folds and coil folds look good! And it’s smart to move onto coild folds at the end to preserve the air a little better. Your biggest issue by far is that you totally needed to let if bulk ferment for a lot longer. Potentially hours after your last bulk ferment. So many thing impact how long your bulk ferment needs to big, from temperature, to the specific flour, the water content, levain content, etc. It wasn’t even nearly fermented enough when you shaped it! If needs to grow quite a bit, expand on the bowl, have a dome shape and show bubbles on the top. When you move the bowl, it needs to giggle easily and feel airy. This is why it was so sticky to handle when shaping! Sourdough is always kinda sticky, especially when using some whole flours, but I nicely bulk fermented dough using white flour should only be midly sticky and once you’re using some flour on the counter it should be way easier to handle. After the preshape, you can actually leave it uncovered, and a lot of people recommend to do that. And you really don’t need to pop any of those top air bubbles! I mean, it’s fine either way but no need. But what I noticed most is that you left it on the counter for a while and then put it in your proofing bowl. I think that’s big issue #2. You shouldn’t let it relax so much before it goes into the bowl. You should actually do a good thorough shaping again and instantly put it into the bowl. The shaping you did was a good preshape, but not good enough for your final shaping. As for the final “rise”, which is the final proofing stage, I think it was too short. If you’re proofing in the fridge, it’s really recommended to let it proof around 8 to 12 hours. Our of the fridge would be 2 or 3 hours. So this could also affected your final rise in the oven. All of the things I’ve mentioned affect how strong the structure of the dough is before you cook it, which is why yours looked like it “moved” a lot even right out of the fridge. Basically it’s overall severely underfermented and underproofed. About getting it our of the proofing container, I suggest more flour into the tea towel. I better perfemented dough won’t stick as much though, so there’s that, but don’t be afraid to flour the top of the dough and the tea towel more liberally. I suggest rice flour, it’s fenomenal at avoiding sticking. When your loaf lacks structure, from underproofing or overproofing, I suggest you don’t score before it goes into the oven, but instead take it out of the oven around 6 or 7 minutes into the bake, and score it then. It could help a little bit. And your lame doesn’t cut through the bread smoothly because the dough is sticky and lacks structure. But notthing wrong with the kame itself. I do small cuts, though, instead of one big swoop, and I feel like it helps have less dragging. I think, to summarize, don’t follow the timings of recipes exactly, because your dough will not behave like the dough of that person sharing their recipe. You have to look for the signs of a correct bulk fermentation. And then perfect your shaping steps, doing a preshape, rest on the counter, then full shaping and directly into the bowl. Let proof in the bowl overnight for a fridge proof and 2 or 3 hours for a counter proof. I recommend you check out theperfectloaf.com because he has fenomenal beginner recipes with lots and lots of instructions and pictures and explanations. But again, your timing can be different. I always bulk ferment longer than him when following his recipes, for example. If you have any questions, go ahead! Maybe I will know the answer haha I’m still trying to perfect my process for a more open crumb and a better ear but I feel like my loaves have always been in the spectrum of nice. Just with a longer ferment, you really will improve your loaves A LOT. Trust me!!

[@justawoodworkher]

Omgsh! Thank you for this, it’s exactly what I needed! I appreciate the time you took to share all of it in such detail. Every step is saved & I will try another loaf again!! I had no clue I wasn’t letting it ferment long enough, that makes so much sense as to why it’s so sticky too! I will definitely let you know how the next loaf goes! Again, thank you so much!

[@AngelaGranaVarela]

@@justawoodworkher I'm glad I could help! I feel like KZbin sent me to your video for a reason hahaha Good luck!

[@ratiquette]

I’m just starting out myself so I can’t comment on what you might be doing “wrong,” but I do notice that you’re doing a lot more stretch and fold than I’m doing. I do one 30 minutes after mixing, another after an hour, then I bulk ferment until doubled, shape, and let it proof until it’s ready for the oven. I’m wondering if allowing the dough to develop its gluten by resting rather than with more folding changes the structure of the final crumb. In any case, good luck with the next loaf. Hopefully increasing the bulk rise works!

[@justawoodworkher]

Hmmm, maybe I can try that next! Everything I have seen was at least 4 sets of stretch & folds. I’m really hoping this next loaf is better! If it’s not, I’ll try maybe 3 sets and then just let it double in size 🙌🏻

[@AngelaGranaVarela]

@@justawoodworkher You can decide how much your stretch and fold depending on how much structure you feel your bread has. I do about 6 folds and that seems to work for me!

[@stacycoin3582]

This is what I found out hope it helps. The fermentation process creates bubbles of carbon dioxide in the bread. The heat from baking expands those bubbles into holes. Very large holes may mean that when shaping the loaf you left air pockets in the bread

[@justawoodworkher]

it probably is the bulk fermentation stage

[@kaylierobertson1831]

I think you are letting your leaven sit too long before baking. Mine is ready in about 4 hours after i mix it together. You want to use it after it doubles in size but before it falls. Whenever dough is too sticky, it's usually because the starter wasn't strong enough.

[@justawoodworkher]

Do you feed a 5 to 1 ratio or a 1 to 1? I switched it up to a 5 to 1 and mine wasn't falling yet even overnight. I will be making another loaf today. I think it's the bulk rise phase, possibly not being long. I appreciate the comment, let me know your feeding ratio for the leaven and if this loaf doesn't turn out, I'll try yours!

[@kaylierobertson1831]

@@justawoodworkher I feed 1:1:1. Sourdough is a journey. Happy baking!

[@justawoodworkher]

@@kaylierobertson1831 ohh ok, thats why its ready so quick. Yes, such a journey! Loving it though 😊