What are the Minus db (-db) markings mean on Volume Control? A simply Straight Forward answer.

[@jasonwebb6484]

Aha - I’m getting it now. I’ve watched a couple of these dB videos (I know, exciting, right?) and this one sunk in.i’m kind of thinking of it as “zero dB” is the tap fully open, and the attenuation is decreasing the water flow until “infinity dB” is like the tap being totally closed. Of course the simple thing is ‘turn one way louder and turn the other way, quieter’. Kind of like my pilot friend who pushes the stick forward and says ‘trees get bigger!’ and pulls the stick back and says ‘trees get smaller!’

[@angela-gilbert]

@@jasonwebb6484 Your water tap analogy is great.

[@DPSingh-px4xu]

Oh wow now I can sleep at night knowing -db markings have nothing to do with enjoying music.....oh Lord I'm soooo thankful

[@angela-gilbert]

😆😄😁 You are being silly. None of those marking has nothing to do with enjoying music. In fact, most preamp and integrated amp in the market doesn't have numbered marking. They are just marking that really mean very little to nothing. Keep enjoying the music.😄

[@carminedesanto6746]

GM ☕️🍩 Thanks for the education 🙏

[@jedi-mic]

Yeah you explained it well it's a path through 1 volt 0 DB is a path through anything back from that is a divider. just wondered if you have any feelings on log or Lin pots, do you prefer one of over the other and why would one manufacture go for one over the other?

[@angela-gilbert]

@@jedi-mic I try to avoid referencing dB to any voltage to confuse the issue. The dB is just a ratio in this case. Unless we calibrate 0db to a certain level voltage or power, it really doesn't mean anything. In term of log or Lin volume scales. I think it is the different mechanical control or digital display control. It more sense to the mass when it is a turning knob to be log scale and linear scale for digital display. For sound wise, there is no different between the two.

[@ericgonzales854]

Awesome content... thanks

[@smos63]

Thanks for the excellent video. So,

[@De132an]

Great!

[@smos63]

Thanks for the excellent video. So, if I want to connect a preamplifier with an integrated amplifier, I assume that I have to set the potentiometer of the integrated amplifier to 0 DB (no attenuation). Is that correct? I beg for a straight answer from you dear AG and maybe a whole video on the subject!

[@angela-gilbert]

@@smos63 No, not usually 0db on integrated amp volume control if you are using preamp. Usually keep the volume control at -10db to -15 dB. That should deduct the gain from the preamp inside the integrated amp. Therefore, only using the gain of the internal power amp.

[@davidpaabor1382]

Verry good video!

[@angela-gilbert]

@@davidpaabor1382 Thanks. Hope my explanation is easy enough for everyone to understand.

[@davidpaabor1382]

@@angela-gilbert Yes no worry i understand what you were saying pleas keep making more great kontent! I would like to see a video where you explain your capacitor modds and mabey a video where you explain your own powersupply / capacitor design, one thing i wounder about is do you need a soft start circuit when you add that mutch capacitance to not damage the transformer and rectifier diodes from high current?

[@angela-gilbert]

@@davidpaabor1382 Oh yeah. Soft start is a must when the power supply goes big. When it gets passes multi Farads, multi-stage soft start. Or, magic smoke may get out. 😆

[@davidpaabor1382]

@@angela-gilbertWell i do not like the magic smoke anymore! But when i was young i did like it 😤😁

[@davidpaabor1382]

@@angela-gilbert Thank you for clarifying.

[@supergwizzo]

The interconecting wires could cause difference also 10 k cable give more precise measures 😮😮😅😊 Another interesting video

[@angela-gilbert]

Those fluctuations on the measurements were likely caused by the dirty switches inside the vintage Yamaha. It has been cutting in and out all the time.

[@carminedesanto6746]

I’ve always looked at it as (for example) -24 on any volume display as showing that how much volume percentage is left ….sort of using it as a guide….

[@angela-gilbert]

@@carminedesanto6746 You are kind of correct as concept but the dB is not showing what percentage left of the volume. They are just some making for attenuation. As a listener, it really not very useful. We will turn the volume as where we want base on our hearing. As a lab technician or someone who needs to calibrate to a certain level of signal, those markings can be useful.

[@carminedesanto6746]

@ Thank you for the explanation. Have a great Wednesday ☕️

[@n.lyndley.9889]

dB and % are very different scales

[@angela-gilbert]

@@n.lyndley.9889 Agreed, very much so.

[@alphacapo]

I use a Yamaha AS501.(500$) With a smsl dl100 as a dac hub\preamp (189$)..... the SMS l. Attenuator goes from −99 to 0. When u get to -01 attenuation the smsl unit makes a click noise. I assume that is fixed at uinity meaning 0 attenuation 0 gain.? Is this correct? I have a tv hooked up with hdmi arc to the smsl for general purpose streaming. Cd blueray hooked up via toslink and i use usb c and bluetooth for my phone or someone elses phone remotely. Rca out the back of smsl to input on the yamaha. The new version of b Tooth if your phone supports it is much better. Sounds close to cd quality if your not being critical. I have a s23 samsung its much better than my old apple in this regard. My speakers are jbl530s (300$ pair) on 8 inch risers that sit on top of 12 inch heco subs( 460$ for a pair) pretty great setup for the price when u consider what it would cost for a 3way floorstander with a 12 inch woofer. I basically just use the subs so i can get even response from 30 to 90 hz wich the little jbl rolls off. Im getting great sound for $1500 all in. My room is 18x40 with 9 foot open beam ceilings ....the usual furniture and a 8ft brunswick. If i want to take things a step further should i get a minidsp or should i spend money on room treatment? Opinions welcome. Strictly by ear i feel like i can get pretty flat in room response from 30hz to 16khz with tastefull adjustment of the tone controls on the yamaha

[@angela-gilbert]

@@alphacapo If the 0 means 0db, it does means no gain no lost. What goes in, the same comes out.

[@alphacapo]

​​@@angela-gilbertis it safe to run smsl at this level? I have heard it's whee u get the best signal to noise ratio. With the smsl at unity i only have to turn the yamaha volume up to about 10 o'clock before I feel like the neighbors are gonna get mad. Between 11 and 12 o'clock the house starts making noise and the little driver on the jbl starts complaining with bass heavy music. The smsl at unity and the yamaha volume at 9 or 10 o'clock is the sweetspot

[@angela-gilbert]

@@alphacapo Always runs it at the highest level without distortion or clipping. That will give you the highest SNR.

[@alphacapo]

@@angela-gilbert is cant hear any noise floor and I don't think I get clipping at any volume I wou listen at. I feel like that's the beauty of these new Chip dacs ...inky black background for sound to flow gloriously over top of. Thank you for all your responses. I'm curious about your yamaha mods but I'm in the usa

[@jameswandiba7929]

Hi Gilbert. How can one buy your audio products? And what happened to Blue Circle products? Are they still available or you simply killed the brand?

[@angela-gilbert]

@@jameswandiba7929 I have dealers in Ontario and Illinois. Send me a PM via my web site when you get a chance I will send you the contact info. Blue Circle Audio the name has been retired but I am supporting all the products no matter how they are.

[@jakedavis2838]

Is this the same for the -db markings on VU meters?

[@angela-gilbert]

@@jakedavis2838 No, not the same thing. Although, they are both indicator of signal level but they are not use in the same way. UV meters usually telling us the signal level. This minus dB are attenuation of the user (us) require. However, thr fb scale itself can be seen as being the same.

[@freeradical6390]

The volume control can not add sound or amplify the sound, it can only reduce the amplifiers output. Why do manufacturers let the volume knob go up to clipping is what I dont understand.

[@angela-gilbert]

@@freeradical6390 The gain of the amplifier is fix. If it goes into clipping, it means the input signal is being too high. Which is the job of the volume control to attenuate the signal before going into the amplifier to avoid clipping. It is really not the job of the amp manufacturer to stop the amp going into clipping. It is the user responsibility to make sure the input signal is not being too high.

[@freeradical6390]

@@angela-gilbert Interesting! Thank you!!! In car audio most of the good amps come with a clip indicator light or a clip eliminator switch. I wish modern home amplifiers and sources (input signal) had them. Its nice to know where the limits are. I did not know the v knob came before the amplification. Thanks again!

[@angela-gilbert]

@freeradical6390 You can get an after market UV meters and calibrate 0db to the max power to the amp output. Then you will know how much the amp has before clipping.

[@freeradical6390]

@@clickbeetle2720 Ya Ive blown way too many tweeters over the years! lol

[@freeradical6390]

@@angela-gilbert A demonstration of that would be cool, I have too many questions. lol. How do you know the source has a clean signal? and when does it clip? 2 volts? How does that dictate when the amplifier clips? In car audio we find where the source clips then set the amplifier gain for maximum power without clipping. The amps also have built in electronic crossovers....clipping can change with frequency. What gives with the hifi world? No gain control, no crossovers, no clip light etc. Just pay me 15,000 dollars for this amp???? I know the parts used in car audio are crap but still.....you can get 5000 watt class D sub amp for around 300 bucks. Thanks Teach!

[@garthdev]

AG only I can say that lol has forgotten another kind of valve amp, I'm not saying tube, is the OTL..Removing the output transformers and regulating everything from valves is kind of crazy..However brilliant..I could write several A4's on why this is incredible. There is one tube that works so well in a OTL and that's the very cheap/inexpensive EL84..I have no idea but the damping factor on a OTL goes up compared to it's siblings aka pp and se it behaves more like a ss amp..I love OTL's even though you are dealing with a bomb lol

[@garthdev]

That's not minus db..I had a amp years ago that had true minus db markings..The volume control worked left to right with db marked as infinity on the left side and zero on the right..Now that's MINUS db 🙂

[@angela-gilbert]

This Yamaha receiver has infinity on the left side (7 O'Clock) and minus zero on the right (5 O'Clock).

[@garthdev]

@@angela-gilbert Okay but to me that's no minus db..I still don't understand why it's not marked as 1-10..Unless you're a audio producer there's no need for this even in the high end?? Could you make a single ended solid state pair of mono amps..It's just a question you don't have to answer!!!

[@angela-gilbert]

@@garthdev I am not disagree with you. I totally get what you are saying. There is no need to mark minus db on the volume control. Most manufacture don't do it. I don't do it on my design. In fact, there is no marking on most of my volume control. I believe marking minus db around the volume control on a consumer home product is really just pretending to be professional. Nothing more than that. It's a show off thing. What I was doing in the video was trying to explain what it means from the user point of view. My first one sentence explanation of the marking in the beginning of the video still stands true.

[@garthdev]

@@angela-gilbert Thanks Angela..To answer my second question which you ignored..There was this incredible guy called Tim de Paravicini who wanted to prove that valves and solid state can sound the same..So he built two mono amps at around 30K back in the 80's just when the original Ongaku came out at the same price..This was crazy money and still is..But single ended solid state has was never been a thing back then until Tim did it..And yes it was every bit as good as that 211 with 20 watts of power..What's great about solid state SE's is it doesn't heat the room like a transmitter valve..Yes the case gets hot but not in the way of a tube. You do solid state so I guess I won't push you more on this topic it is interesting to me on SE solid state because it really does sound like valves 🙂

[@angela-gilbert]

@@garthdev I didn't know that was a question. I do solid-state and tube. Tube front end. Now, let me throw you a task and see what you can find. Look up Blue Circle Audio BC2 Mono hybrid SE power amp.

[@RoverWaters]

why don't you make some superior attenuator design instead of using carbon pots?

[@angela-gilbert]

@@RoverWaters I have been building Shallco 31 steps and 47 steps attenuators since 1992 in my very first preamp ever made. Have done that till all the way to 2019 in all my Blue Circle days. They works great until they get dirty. I have also used conductive plastic pot in the same period. Mostly I have done that to audiophile acceptance. Now, I don't care about being accepted or not anymore because I know what sound best. Carbon pot has their disadvantages but with a bit of trimming, those disadvantages disappear enough the advantages of the sound out weight the negative. Carbon pots do have it sound and those sound work harmony with my current design. There are also conductive plastic pots in my current model mix with carbon pot. After all that said, I am currently making another stepped attenuators with 121 positions for the purists. Someone who is looking for clean and pure sound, this is the attenuator they are looking for.

[@jasonwebb6484]

⁠@@angela-gilbertis it really necessary to custom build a 121 step attenuator? How long does that take? You could probably build me a complete phono stage instead. Maybe?

[@angela-gilbert]

@jasonwebb6484 If someone is willing to pay me, I would take the challenge. It is fun to do anyway. Would I spend my own time doing it, no. I have done it more than 30 years ago and had been doing it for almost 25 years before I stop.

[@georgetaylor3107]

There are a couple of reasons... once upon a time a better attenuator would have been a good idea because it was a relatively low cost upgrade that provided a nice upgrade in performance. These days, a stepped attenuator would cost the end user about $1,500. Putting that $1,500 towards a bigger power supply is a much more effective means of boosting performance. The other issue is that the carbon pots are part of an overall recipe. Most people tend to look at individual elements of a piece of equipment - volume controls, binding posts, DAC chips, resistors, and make judgements based the their opinions of these individual elements. To be fair, in the absence of actually being able to listen to a piece of equipment, and not knowing the importance of an overall design "recipe" I guess that is a natural thing to do. Unfortunately, it is not a great way to form an opinion on how a piece of equipment will sound. These particular pots have proven their effectiveness over a period of a decade. They sound good, work reliably, and add to the sonic profile to help achieve a musically pleasing result. Why change?