What changed most from Luclin to Planes of Power?

This begins a guide series on the major changes between each expansion starting with one that has become infamous for its changes: Planes of Power.
Planes of Power armor: everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki...
Planes of Power Spells:
almarsguides.com/eq/quests/Po...
Planes of Power Flagging Guide:
fanra.fandom.com/wiki/The_Pla...
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[@estebanembroglio6371]

its like that office etiquette meme Kelethin elevator: aww how sweet PoK elevator: security!!

[@danpitzer765]

In my experience (from back then) PoP's real damage was that it forcibly segregated group and raid players. And set the stage for the devs balancing everything around raid gear.

[@AXLHillier]

That is a very valid comment, and something I forgot about....The focus on raid players was crazy and created a Grand Canyon sized gap between raiders and casuals. But good news...that is fixed on live servers!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Like Alexander said, this is a great point and it's one I probably looked over because most of my recent experience with PoP was raiding. I think having the zones locked behind raids was pretty detrimental to a large portion of the playerbase because it put up huge wall between raiders and non-raiders.

[@danpitzer765]

@@Redbeardflynn The worst part of it was that the zones weren't just more raid zones. They were full of group gear and group mobs, with far better XP-per-kill rates and plat+gem drops than the zones you could enter without the flagging. Especially Plane of Fire. The grouper's best choices required being a raider...a high-end raider. And it really hits home later, when they balanced GoD around Time Gear.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@danpitzer765 oh yes, exactly. They do learn from this mistake with future expansions and kind of reverse the formula so group content leads to raids instead of the other way around at least

[@danpitzer765]

@@Redbeardflynn Yep. Unfortunately, the balance thing is a lesson that takes much longer to learn at all. The launch of SoF was a notorious example, as it seemed to be balanced around Anguish gear based on everyone I talked to who was capable of doing the group gear named (they all said you needed a tank in at least Anguish)...and Anguish gear was still leagues beyond anything a grouper could get. There was two passes I remember being done, nerfing those named, and it still was out of the reach of most groupers. I guess it *sorta* helped with the division of the playerbase, as raid tanks were helping people get group gear, but it wasn't really much of a 'working together' thing as a 'charity' thing. (I speak as someone who mostly did group and solo work from Luclin to Empires. I raided here and there, but mostly to help out raider friends who needed more manpower or to help someone complete a quest. The requirements many raid guilds put forth were just not something I could get with.)

[@keith_dixon]

This should be titled, "what changes on progression servers when PoP is unlocked". What Changed in the game from Luclin to Planes of Power? Druids and Shaman got pseudo CH spells, harmony was turned into a level limited pacify spell, Complete heal changed to a 7500HP heal, Raid mobs in Velious and Luclin had their HPs lowered, mod rods changed into rods of mystical transvergence, mobs began mitigating slow, and I'm sure lots of other things.

[@jubeibob]

awesome video, Im just coming back to eq from a 4 year break,( 7 before that give or take) and you might have the best eq videos out there, keep up the good work

[@Redbeardflynn]

Oh wow that's such a compliment, thank you so much! I'll be adding a GoD version of this before the launch on Thornblade/Mischief :) I hope you enjoy your return to EQ! We just got a roadmap which was an exciting development.

[@libradragon]

Oh, the Elevator Music = Priceless and brilliant, as are every EQ and related video I have seen from you, RedbeardFlynn! Keep up your great work. I hope to return to my beloved EQ soon! I have been psyching up with your tasty bits... and, the tid of them. I must bake more . . batwing crunchies!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Such kind words! Thank you so much! I really appreciate that. All the batwing crunchies! Maybe some boomba's pickles, too?

[@libradragon]

@@Redbeardflynn You are most welcome and deserve the praise for your outstanding work here on KZbin. Yes! Boomba like to sell pickles... me make puny humans strong! We might need some Milk... or Qeynos Afternoon Tea to wash it all down. 🍪 🥛🍵👀

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@libradragon Oh wow thank you! I think I'm going to need at least a Misty Thicket Picnic with all this praise! Very appreciated!

[@adm5893]

I love the elevator music. Playing on P99. Enjoyed the video.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you liked the video and the elevator music :)

[@jaimeorr4661]

Yes! - Loved the introduction I would watch a - What changed ? VID for each of the expansions.

[@Remianen]

As a druid AND Wizard on PoP's launch, the books were a godsend for me. The sense of entitlement people had about ports was disgusting. Ever been trained in an xp group by a person who flat out demanded a port? "Port me to NK". No 'please', no courteous tell, just show up in front of you, open trade window (with 10p pffft!) and demanding it. And this wasn't an isolated incident, it was the standard, in my experience. And while my wizards could go /role and act like enchanters or necros (for the DEs), my druids LOOKED like druids and the leafblower didn't help at all. Even today with the books and the guildhall porter, I'm often asked for ports (or rather, TLs) but people realize it's a luxury, not a necessity anymore. It's like, you might need a car but that doesn't mean it needs to be a Bugatti Chiron.

[@Redbeardflynn]

You know I actually remember this! I remember druids and wizards hiding their epics and going /role to avoid the random tells, just like Clerics with rez tells. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@Gasmurken]

This is old news, but the biggest thing was possibly that we finally got raid instances which my self and probably many others, had petitioned for since the very early days. I think it took them way to many expansions to fix the problem with over camped raid targets that had a 6 days respawn. I am not certain, but it was clearly very obvious when they implemented the Epics during the Kunark era. Waiting for named to spawn and be so lucky that you would get the kill was just horrible. It is ok that there should be competition, but that kind was just ridiculous in addition to that they their customer service cared less about the fights that happened in game because of it. So, releasing 3 more expansions with out doing anything about it was just a horrible long wait for something that was needed since at least the Kunark expansion. I am sure there were many other nice upgrades, but this one was the biggest one for sure. Yes, I know they tried it out in LDoN, but that was LDoN, in my opinion not a "real" expansion.

[@stabgod]

Raid instances did not come out in PoP (originally). The top guilds on my server would camp the flagging bosses with a couple of toons and would engage immediately when they spawned. Not to kill them, but to “blow” the spawn. Back then, if you engage the boss and die, it would de-spawn after a few minutes and then not show back up for another week. Top guilds had the spawn timers and made sure no one was getting a shot. This was a huge cock block for the smaller guilds trying to make their way through progression. Devs knew this was a problem but had no real solution. First they added a random respawn offset timer so no one knew exactly when the bosses would respawn, they only knew it would be a few hours before or after the expected time. This was only a minor deterrent. The real way smaller guilds fought this was to find out when the spawn was blown and be prepared with a full raid force when it was expected to respawn. A server wide raid channel started and multiple smaller guilds participated. Eventually the big guilds stopped being dicks about it, but by then they were all geared out and GoD was about to launch. I was in a cool midsize guild and we finally killed Ro for the Time flag literally the day before GoD was released. I went LD near the end and missed my hail. Petitioned but got nowhere with the GMs. Didn’t step into Time until 15 years later on a TLP server, having enjoyed the benefits of instanced raids. It was very anticlimactic. Not sure how I feel about instances (both good and bad), but it does eliminate the griefers.

[@nycchislc]

PoP was definitely not instanced for quite a while after released.

[@apointtomake1517]

Getting through a Plane of Justice trial to access Plane of Valor, and Plane of Storms. In Plane of Valor, you needed a slower; Shaman or Enchanter, but the AA exp was well beyond anything prior, and for good reason, we had a TON of aa we needed.

[@Stitchlii]

I'm geeked to see how Mischief server handles PoP. 1 week to go!!

[@Redbeardflynn]

The random loot has been very interesting. I think pop gets more complex for random loot. Very very curious to see, too! Thank you for watching

[@Anweas]

Great video as always!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Thank you so much!

[@ruffnarbobnar5960]

Back in the day when PoP first time launched, I fully enjoyed the exansion. I get the QOL changes that annoyed some ppl thought it made getting around too easy. As far as content goes for the game it was great. On the flipside of that coin i kinda understand the hate as well. Back then i was in more or less the biggest raiding guild on the server so I got to fully enjoy PoP content. Nowadays on the tlps sometimes im in a hardcore raiding guild sometimes ill just get into a fresh guild that wants to do content but has to work at it. The fresh guild that's more or less casual may not get to do all that PoP has to offer. I don't know I still like to think PoP was a great expansion now once you start branching past PoP the power creep gets out there to each there own but I'm one of the few that loves the setup of PoP. My only real complaints about PoP was the change to the way some core mechanics in game worked namely Slow. So instead of coming up with new quirks to fights to make it more of a challenge they more or less took the easy way out. Having slow not be nearly as effective on the target for some reason was the answer to add back more challenge. The only other thing that was minor honestly was that lots of items started to have a level req on them. One of my favorite things to do was Twink the crap out of a new toon. Being in one of the top guilds i had the chance to have some pretty powerful low level characters and for some reason the devs started taking that ability away.

[@richardwallis9374]

When you hit the top of the elevator and someone up top instantly hits the down so they can go down and you are now on another round trip 😂😂

[@Redbeardflynn]

Cruel!! Lol

[@douglaswilliams6834]

IMO, Planes of Power is the best EQ expansion, ever. The runner up, IMO, is Omens of War.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Those are both great calls. I thoroughly enjoyed both of those expansions.

[@undignified2843]

You'd love Agnarr server on live if you haven't checked it out. Pop locked, but has expansions ykesha and ldon.

[@BubbleoniaRising]

The druid teleporter whoring joke was clever but people forget that the choice to charge/not charge was a hotly debated subject on class EZ boards as far back as Kunark.

[@Redbeardflynn]

I still remember it being debated on early progression servers when clerics or shamans buffed for free.

[@BubbleoniaRising]

@Redbeardflynn That was the argument back then, too. Let's put it this way... I mained a Wizard who actually got groups and had no trouble finding a full rez. 😉

[@Thelastkingoftwatland]

I just wanted to say thanks for everything. You have been so helpful. You were right about just buying the update. Can you suggest an EQ Live Server that is populated with adults? Thanks. I think I'll be able to start on any server.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Absolutely! The go to server I think is going to be FV for EQ. That's where most of the progression servers ended up getting merged into for a while. As for the other servers I'm really not sure. I found this reddit post which refers to EQ resource checking server status data but it's 2 years old: www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/hxq9k0/most_populated_server/

[@Thelastkingoftwatland]

@@Redbeardflynn again thanks so much. I just hate to give up my toon when the progression server pops. Maybe I'll just buy a hero Shaman on their I don't have any attachment to. LOL. And dump my other guys on a Live Server

[@raeshalgoul8505]

Thanks Xanador peace be with you oh wise one. AND ah so on and stuff.

[@gilmer3718]

3rd Time to play in PoP. Raided Time twice before and am going to do it again.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Hell yeah! Time is so much fun, too. I love how it's laid out

[@TheQxx]

Planes of Power was one of the best expansions and Shadows of Luclin was one of the worst. If Luclin didn't exist, PoP would be considered the spiritual "end" of EQ and classic EQ would be considered "Kunark-Velious-Planes"

[@ronstukey7630]

Good video very informative.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Thank you! I plan to eventually make a video for each expansion as a guide of sorts for anyone going through progression.

[@draqattack7146]

Haha I'm actually going to play pop this time!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Yesssss! I'm so excited for you.

[@novyxl9672]

Thanks Zan! You da man!

[@JohnSmith-ty2he]

Pretty much sums up why I always quit with PoP.

[@davidrathmell655]

maybe some must do quests in Pop that aren't necessarily key progression

[@Redbeardflynn]

Here's my addition to the list of must do quests (if you're a melee) but I warn you it's a very long quest. almarsguides.com/eq/quests/PoP/JimloksFriend/PoweredClockworkTalisman/TheBindenConcerrentia/

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

PoP doesn't get no where as much hate in classical diehard community (like P99) as Luclin. Except for PoK books, PoP is considered well in lore of classical EQ. Luclin is considered to be an abomination with all the space aliens and such.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Ah that's interesting!

[@takptalyn586]

That may be general consensus. I just spent 3 years on SoL (era accurate), and the last 1.5years on PoP (permanent launch ruleset), having only really experienced up to velious prior. Yeah, the models, cats, low xp, high mob hp all deserve flack, but PoP is just a tiny sandbox (tranquility) with convenient ports to literally all content in the expansion. The content in shadows of luclin was great, and played pretty classic, up until like shei/seru/vexthall. Ssra is full of kunark vibes. Crossing the deep bridge for the first time was amazing. Class balance was better than ever before. PoP is like an entire vex thall expansion, and at least on the server Im on (flags only, no piggy backs), its gotta suck for all those casual players who'll never see most of the expansion with pick up groups.

[@SomeCanine]

I really liked the raiding in PoP but you have to admit that it pretty much DESTROYED the progression of EQ in terms of how people played their characters. The power curve went straight up a wall. If you raided in Luclin, you could get some good stuff. In PoP, it was pretty much all there was. The expanded AAs meant that everyone was going to get extremely powerful regardless of how much they raided. They could get sow speed, increased resistances, uber abilities that made their classes even more powerful than they already were.

[@NicholasLayton]

Do your trade skills. Get signet of might.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Great tip! Thank you!

[@undignified2843]

Anyone know the reason, like lore wise, why the zone in to nightmare is the way it is?

[@Redbeardflynn]

Good question! I believe it all has to do with Terris Thule. Zam does a good job of giving some general info on zones when it's available: In the mists of the darker portions of the astral lurks the Plane of Nightmares, home to the horrors that crouch in the subconscious of all creatures' minds. A dense forest dominates much of the plane, pockmarked by many small clearings. The trees are gnarled, their bark twisted into patterns that resemble horrific faces. These sentient creatures are powerful and malevolent, springing to life when any mortal being enters the realm. A river bisects the forest, eventually pouring into a great, murky lake. In the caverns beneath the earth live still more nightmares. (everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=161)

[@undignified2843]

Yeah but, like why is it some obscure crevice of whatever that structure is supposed to be in POT? Like how did the first person that found that figure " hmm, ill try clicking here even tho there is no visual reason to do so"

[@undignified2843]

This has bothered me since PoP.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@undignified2843 Ah! I see what you mean. Yeah most of the other ones make more sense.

[@Remianen]

@@undignified2843 It's supposed to be the entrance to a chasm. I'm guessing EQ's devs at the time hadn't yet fallen into the habit of reusing content because a miniature form of the entrance to the Hole (in Paineel) would've been far better. Instead a reskin of an abandoned aboveground pool was used. 🤷‍♂

[@craigjmulvey]

5:10 i remember clipping through the elevator and falling to my death. Tried to get GM to 100% rez and they wouldnt do it

[@darczee1]

That elevator......

[@Redbeardflynn]

Haha, right? And somehow it was always up when you got there.

[@pauld6222]

Long live PoP!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Yes!!!

[@gankhammer9926]

WoW happened as i recall?

[@Redbeardflynn]

Wow launched about 2 years after planes of power actually coinciding with a universally panned (at the time) expansion : gates of discord, so yeah, that definitely hurt eq, especially the timing.

[@raeshalgoul8505]

Smiles

[@draqattack7146]

TOV is the worst.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Wait, Temple of Veeshan? Did you really not like that zone? Lol it's one of my favorite raid zones.

[@draqattack7146]

@@Redbeardflynn zone is fine. Keying is so awful.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@draqattack7146 vp and VT stand out to me as the worst key quests. Especially vp when it's crowded

[@pauld6222]

Loved ToV!

[@Zuranthium]

Planes of Power destroyed the game. Luclin was bad too, but with PoP it's not even Everquest anymore.

[@JonathonTheAsshole]

Velious was the precursor to PoP. Power bloat, raid focused expansion that had no content for anyone but Uberguilds who played 20 hours a day. Always found it wierd how so many people loved SoV but hated PoP when they are basically the same expansion but PoP was just 10x bigger and 10x more work just to play the game.

[@JonathonTheAsshole]

Planes Of Power (creep). The expansion where everyone clicked the pedestal to World of Warcraft.

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

that was Omens of Wars. When PoP was out WoW was barely in works