What Crisis Core Reunion means for REBIRTH

[@creativebodyflying]

About passing forward Buster sword...I like the fact Cloud created his own Fusion sword in Advent Children and left Zack's in a church as a reminder of his legacy right next to Aerith's pool and flowers. From that moment he lets Zack go and creating his own legacy. I loved that in the story, not that he keeps using Buster sword or passes it to someone else. Very symbolic.

[@billionaeris1183]

True, it's kinda like Cloud did the vest with Zacks Legacy as he could but it wasn't good enough unfortunately. With Zack alive now, he can live out his legacy and save the world be a Hero etc and not put that burden onto Cloud. I'm hoping the Fusion sword will be usable at some point.

[@creativebodyflying]

@@billionaeris1183 he was good enough, though, he defeated Seph twice, but now he can give Zack his sword back and create his own, so each of them will live their own story.

[@tyler8995]

Did he leave something of Zacks in the church? I just watched the movie yesterday and the Buster Sword was on the cliff overlooking Midgar, right where Zack died saving Cloud.

[@creativebodyflying]

@@tyler8995 you didn't watch after the credits scene apparently :)

[@tyler8995]

@@creativebodyflying Nope! I didn't even know there was an after credits scene! I'll have to rewatch the ending

[@BltzZ]

always a blast talking with you guys. Looking forward to the next one!

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Can't wait to do it some more papi!!!

[@8Phoenix8]

Bltzzzz!!! 😀

[@Daniel_D-bo]

I hope you guys know how much easier yall make my job driving around doing deliveries all day

[@mindxfuneral]

@BltzZ dude your video guides helped me so much with hard mode remake. Super cool to see you in the mix with these guys!

[@BltzZ]

@@mindxfuneral the FF7R community is a very tight group we all get along extremely well ❤️. Happy to hear the videos have been helping man. Are you looking forward to resident evil!

[@moverdome]

in regards to zack's humanity to make him more relatable, that's why i love the last few chapters of the game more than anything else. zack is escaping from shinra and he's just shattered. he doesn't trust anyone from shinra and doesn't even respond to the posts of his best friend kunsel. he's willing to kill cissnei to save cloud. but above all the one line that he says before the final fight to genesis: "Why is everyone pushing everything on me?" it's so heartbreaking to me. he's human. he got tortured for 4 years and just wants to stay on his toes with cloud, his last hope to stay alive (besides aerith), and he's realizing people have been using him since he was a kid and he sees that more clearly than ever with the final genesis battle. with that in mind, i know it's a small thing in CC that can be overlooked but i totally expect that small human gritty moment to be expanded in far better and far more layered ways in rebirth. and i'm glad you latched onto that one line in the trailer. because i have complete faith we'll have that and much more by next winter.

[@shro_okee]

perfectly put into words

[@empty_melodies]

This discussion is so freakin great. BUNCH OF KINGS HERE. Thank you BbySeal for these videos.

[@The-Azure-Knight]

FORGETTING MAX!!

[@empty_melodies]

@@The-Azure-Knight True true. Has Max ever sat in on one of BbySeal’s discussions? I might’ve missed that episode.

[@elizabethduffy2145]

I want to hear more of Caleb going forward, there were bits in Crisis Core that felt like he was too restricted by the lack of a sync dub. He got so much more emotion into the Integrade scene in the church. Tyler’s Sephiroth was best for me in his more emotive scenes - like when he was wondering why he couldn’t be the donor, or the laugh when they arrive one Nibelheim. I can’t wait to see how much more emotion they get out of that scene in Rebirth. Cody was just fucking wonderful. Baby Cloud is so adorable.

[@Storm1Trooper5]

Cody is another league of voice acting it’s like he was bred in a lab to voice cloud lol

[@msmoon6011]

Genesis going from a disliked character to bearable gives the song Redemption a whole new meaning. Great podcast everyone! :)

[@punkpop101]

There's no way in hell Cloud dies this is not The Last Of Us Part 2. It's painfully obvious this is what Final Fantasy X-2 was to Final Fantasy X. A sequel that restores character deaths and turns the story into a hopeful happier one. Noone will die this time mark my words.

[@o0Flavio950o]

I will write here what I wrote elsewhere: if they pull a FFVIII Laguna "flashback" style stuff with Zack, they HAVE to put Kunzel and Cissnei in Zack's party.

[@wyattlewis7428]

God you know it’s a great discussion when one person says what could happen, then someone else says the opposite and you find yourself believing all sides! That’s what’s so exciting about what’s to come and I’m all here for it. Such a great group to discuss all of this.

[@KK-ef1ow]

Thanks for shedding light on how good Genesis is portrayed! On my 2nd watch through, right after the "is it good" scene, genesis says that the dream finally came true. The dream was to have a first class soldier hero (originally sephiroth) try the banora apple and love it. Zach became a hero and tried the apple.

[@captainkosmic7013]

What a powerhouse of a team we got here. Gonna listen to this while I work today 😌

[@trentonbonk9202]

I was not expecting to love Phil on this as much as I did, he was great! I think he made some great points, especially with Zack. The journey is more important than the destination, and Crisis Core literally represents that. Every OG fan knew going into CC what the ending was for the character, but the end death hits hard not because it's a surprise, but because of the journey we went on. Now you have modern day writers and presentation that can actually show Zack in an even better way (no cheesy dialogue, etc). I'm excited for what they do with the character. Also, as someone who never played the original CC (I only ever saw the ending, some scenes, and knew the story), the new VA is great. Especially once Zack matures, the VA impressed me. His lines (after changing his hair) describing the Turks and him on vacation and questioning what he has to fight for, is delivered incredibly. From that point, I think the VA nailed it the rest of the game. I definitely think people can't get past the nostalgia of Rick Gomez when it comes to the voice. Rick is a better VA, but the amount of hate toward Caleb stems from nostalgia. The people who aren't tied to Rick has enjoyed the new VA. Anyway, all this talk makes me excited for Rebirth.

[@gianghuynh9570]

I love the scenes between Sephiroth and Genesis. They were always good before but the new VAs put in a lot more work and chemistry. There is always this tragedies between the characters that the OG leans on the more dramatic direction for the VA, but now that we have more context, there are less dramatic act and more earnestness and musing between the lines that makes the moment in the Genova chamber that much more powerful.

[@serenavox5540]

Thanks so much for making this available! I’m listening to this while I work today. I love Final Fantasy and I absolutely adore the FF7 universe in particular. ❤️

[@Daniel_D-bo]

Im happy I found this conversation! Im playing crisis core now for the first time.

[@MysterEeee]

I'm digging the possibility that the metastory for Rebirth will be the conflict between the Remake project and the Compilation as which direction is the best legacy of the OG. Zack representing the Compilation and Cloud the Remake project.

[@8Phoenix8]

Alsoooo..... Yall should add MAXIMILIAN DOOD. :) ALL 6 OF YALL WOULD BE EPIC!

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Let him know! He’s hard to reach lol

[@Sawngawkuh]

On that note about how curious it is that some things are left faithful to the original despite causing incongruity with VII Remake, another example is the presence of what would eventually house Jenova's body in Hojo's lab after being moved from Mt. Nibel. While Remake has her placed in an entirely new, different room and structure, Crisis Core still recreates the chamber from the original VII and CC.

[@itsdantaylor]

I think the most interesting thing about reunion, was kind of put forward by max dood. This game basically spoils one of the later 'twists' that would have happened, presumably in the events of rebirth.........so if they expect people to play this and know about zack and his relationship with cloud before rebirth.........then rebirth CAN'T have that same twist.................so what's going to happen instead?

[@beastofdarknesss5822]

I discovered this channel a while back and Clark I have to say I adore this community, I feel like I found my home lol love watching these huge long podcasts thanks for everything you do Clark!

[@d_aye_d]

I think an interesting aspect of Genesis (and sleepezi may have mentioned this already in his theories) is that is that he is searching for this “gift of the goddess” and he is always summoning (he attack you with Ifrit, Bahamut, and Bahamut Fury) and In the end game, he finds a huge summon materia where he fuses with for his final form. The fact that the red color scheme is so inherent and also represents the summon materia is a little sus. Also, Phoenix’s animation in Reunion, is summoned through red lifestream and it creates a wormhole looking effect that’s reminiscent of clouds mind dives. Maybe nothing but definitely interesting!

[@captainkaiii]

Bruh...yall need to get the word out about these discussions because they're great. This channel has no business having only 2k subs.

[@speezbortzappfing3r224]

Could it be that Zack will figure out Sephiroth's intentions for Cloud and Aerith and will try to track the party down and work to avert his plan? In the course of his efforts he will try to save Aerith and and end up dying with her, or instead of her...

[@wichiewamirez5599]

When I was fighting sephiroth and the spider mech song was playing I was like what

[@jeom3808]

Zack is the Ernest wholesome nerd that then becomes a bit harden by life and responsibilities; Cloud is the nerd that tries to act cool based on what he thinks is cool(which is just a silent, no-fun "solider"), becomes more eager due to identity crisis, and then he finally mellows out and becomes determined to fight for a greater cause outside of his identity/ego. (Zack is a flat character arc, in a good way. Cloud is a rising character arc. neither of them are ment to be real badasses, that's what Sephiroth is for- and he's a whole can of warms altogether.) 'cool things require a touch of geekness to be cool'

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Well said!

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you for this discussion, you have gained a new subscriber!

[@itsdantaylor]

I think the thing that makes Crisis Core such a good story is the fact that it IS a side story. I mean let's face it. If crisis core was the FIRST story in the world of ff7 it wouldn't be that good. But the fact that it serves to add more depth to characters we already know and events we're already aware of helps a lot

[@upon-fe2720]

It's not a side story, at least major elements aren't, they are part of the main story and are in fact in the main story, just replayed and reinvented in Crisis Core. Dirge is more of a side story as it's something that's branching off of the story. There is no ff7 without the events of CC, ff7 still exists without Dirge, narratively speaking.

[@creativebodyflying]

Zack did pass his legacy to Cloud, but there's one thing he couldn't finish, because he got killed. To bring back Sephiroth and Genesis. He might be crucial to the story with helping Cloud and co with their task to save the planet, but also have his own unfinished business to bring back Seph and Genesis. If you remember, what Tseng said to him, why he thinks Sephiroth chose him for a mission. Now, Zack is the only one, who can help Seph against Genova's influence, because they used to be real friends. Cloud and Sephiroth never were friends in the first place, just rivals, so they never had same connection as with Zack. Actually, Cloud is also influenced by Jenova, but Zack is not. That's what I think about it.

[@Cetra29]

There is no "Jenova's influence". Jenova's desire living on in Sephiroth is something he embraces. He is not controlled. Read the OG, read the Ultimania, read OtWtAS. Sephiroth is too szrong for that and it NEVER was a thibg. Peoole just came up with that garbage 20 years ago when John Brittenham started talking this nonsense when literally every piece of media says otherwise.

[@creativebodyflying]

@@Cetra29 I did read those. Influence is not the same thing as "being controlled". Jenova definitely has an influence, even on DNA level, since Seph's mother was injected with Jenova cells. He doesn't have to be fully controlled, like the clones, just carefully manipulated.

[@stevenbyrdsummers1924]

Supposition and speculation: If Jenova corrupted the life stream in OG, and Sephiroth breaks free of her influence in remake… is it possible that the Whispers have tapped Zack (with his J cells) to confront Seph and Cloud who become squad mates for team Gaia? There is a theory that Jenova won in the OG and all the following compilation material is her trying to revive her favorite body (Sephiroth) in order to see the end and start it all over again on the next planet. Jenova can manipulate her form and the memories of others and Sephiroth became her puppet the moment he came in contact with her at Neiblhiem. So when we come to Remake, Sephiroth breaks her control by casting his post Advent Children consciousness back in time through Cloud. The Whispers (from the corrupted livestream under control of Jenova) are trying to keep the OG timeline in tact because that is a Jenova victory. That could explain why Sephiroth is antagonistic at the beginning of remake (because he survives in clouds anger), and then immediately softens and offend partnership with cloud after he slashes through the whispers at the end game. So then we get Zack… is it possible that Jenova sent the whispers back to tap him to fulfill the meteor mission that Sephiroth is no longer bound too? That could lead to Zack as the manipulated big bad a la Sephiroth from OG, while Sephiroth and cloud team up and become squadies for Gaia. I say this because Zack carries J cells just like Sephiroth did. Maybe the scenes of him carrying Cloud into Midgar are Jenova manipulations… just like him wielding the buster sword. This makes all the scenes we see Zack in from remake forward subject to the same unreliable narration that cloud suffered from in OG… Thoughts?

[@8Phoenix8]

Ohhh my goodness the GOATS ARE ALL IN ONE ROOM!!!

[@Andrewweiland4509]

I want everyone to live in Rebirth and the entire Remake project in general.

[@scottdove7358]

I'll be so upset if cloud dies! I think he is the only one that can go toe to toe with sephy.

[@itsdantaylor]

i think it's also a better conflict. Sephiroth sees himself as so much more than human. But Cloud was a regular person who not only gravely injured him at the Mako reactor and then again when he was stabbed and threw sephiroth into the reactor. Sure cloud has Sephiroth cells and mako which gives him enhanced abilities in ff7 but he's still a advanced human going toe to toe with someone created to be a superior being.

[@fletchermoose7915]

This was a fantastic conversation. You guys all bring a great perspective. Cant wait to see this dream team come together again after Rebirth!

[@lisaharlan8851]

Stamp’s breed changed from original to remake after the future was changed. That is why they do not want Stamp in crisis core reunion

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

But if this were the case they could have shown beagle stamp to indicate that this was the “original” continuity, prior to the changes.

[@lisaharlan8851]

@@schrodingersbabyseal they would like to keep up guessing

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

@@lisaharlan8851 I agree here… they don’t want to narrow possibility , even a little

[@d_aye_d]

You guys look like you’re in a scene from MMPR when they’re sitting in their separate zords ready to merge into the megazord. “GO GO SEAL TEAM 7!”

[@chainclaw07]

49:20 exactly - he's captain America! That's who he is. A kid who knows what's right, wants to be a hero and is given the shot. The story isn't the heroes journey, its the hero interfacing with the world and people around him and the crisis that happens. At most his character development is facing the world and losing his naivety except even by the end he calls out to Genesis as one of his tribe despite it all so he's not lost that optimism by the end even.

[@PhantomyreValentine]

I find it funny how Sleepezi, the guy who got the whole 'Genesis is gonna play a big role' schtick is going back on his theory, but now the rest of the fandom is on the Genesis boat. I too think Genesis will have a large role to play. His role is far from over. It's only begun. Now I don't think he's going to have a lot of presence in the story, but I believe Reunion is there to give players a view of who he is. I think we won't see much of him till towards the end of Rebirth, and we'll have a big question mark hanging over our head as to why he is there till part 3 comes around. Part 3 is where I think Genesis will have the biggest role to play, but he won't be like the main villain. Just another part of the puzzle.

[@jeom3808]

About what you all are talking about regarding Zack's character arc. I can see that arc being done, but part of Zack's core identity is that he is a flat character arc. He's compelling as a flat character arc,(he doesn't change, things change around him and because of him.) You either dig that or don't. Giving him a rising arc might seem redundant if done wrong. (He's your Goku, sonic, Mario, Jotaro/Joseph Joestar, your Saitama. When i hear you guys want more of him, because of the things you mention and manner you say it- i just mostly hear you guys complain about the Flat Characters arc archetype, and i just think you somewhat largely overlook how/why it's a perfectly good archetype and deviating from it can betray the character and i think square knows this. Either he stays mostly flat(mostly* like with Crisis Core, a few small bumps here and there), or he gets a raising arc that is expertly written to avoid the pitfalls that can come from such a different direction for the Character. Btw- he can still feel like he failed, but 1. I don't see why he should, and 2. If he stays the same, then he'll take the failure as a motivation to keep moving forward and be the hero he is, while being 20% more mopey about it.)

[@omnislushie1230]

I think Zack's purpose will be a cautionary tale with misdirection. What I mean by that is that Zack (who I believe is in a separate timeline), will go through a similar journey as Cloud, but things will go better (the plate won't fall, Jesse goes to work at the gold saucer, etc.) However, as a result, Sephiroth will win in this timeline. In other words, at the start you feel like "Oh Zack is going to fix everything in his timeline," but as time goes on you realize, "Oh shit, this is way worse." I also think Zack is alive so they can make a Crisis Core 2 between Rebirth and the third game because...money

[@Omnicloudx13]

I didn't even think of the possibility of a crisis core 2 featuring Zack in the other timeline with different events, dope theory.

[@PhilipHarts]

It was so awesome being on the show as always friend!! Can’t wait for next time

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Same here!

[@off-meta-michael]

Hey Philip, I agree with your take about execution and character moments in terms of Zack living or dying at the end. "Journey before destination"

[@ChaoticZae]

My prediction of clouds fate. Be open here.. sephiroth showing up so early in the game taunting cloud. I think another entity is at play and sephiroth is in a hurry to rebuild his body in northern crater. This entity weather it be Janova or menerva are preventing his rebirth. Sephiroth wants to revive in clouds body, or atleast have cloud on his side. It’s my prediction in part two sephiroth is going to sympathize with cloud to win his favor. The point of Zach coming back will be to save cloud and remind him who he is.

[@Omnicloudx13]

Wonderful video, just beat Crisis core reunion and this was a great discussion.

[@beastofdarknesss5822]

When i saw the rebirth red title reveal reminded me of jenova in the edge of creation scene and red jenova life at the water alter scene

[@endurist5896]

Here's why I don't think Cloud will die: Sephiroth said that he wouldn't have "Cloud end" at the end of Remake. Everyone forgets about this! I used to think that Zack would kill Cloud if Cloud kill's Aerith, but I think that Sephiroth would intervene if Zack tries this. Great convo by the way BbySeal!

[@Storm1Trooper5]

You’re right

[@endurist5896]

@@Storm1Trooper5 Thanks man!

[@juanvsreviews]

Rebirth’s name basically reveals Zack reviving

[@FreeFlow__]

No man. Rebirth being on a red font implies a total different thing.

[@GrimJackal]

@@FreeFlow__ Are you sure? Remember that different cultures interpret aspects of the world in different ways. In Japan, red is said to scare away evil spirits and represent protection, strength, peace, and power.

[@FreeFlow__]

@@GrimJackal Not in ff7's context.

[@Melterer]

Nothing they do is that on the nose. Rebirth will be in regards to sephiroth or jenova. They are the main villains. Everything else is to make you look one way, while they shock you with another.

[@TFSned]

If they’re going for a happy ending, it’s going to be Zack returning to his timeline and Aerith choosing to join him. Cloud still ends up having to live without them, but without guilt since they can enjoy the rest of their lives together. Remake is going to answer the question “What has to change so Advent Children doesn’t happen?” The first thing is that Cloud can’t feel guilty over the loss of Zack and Aerith. The other is that Sephiroph needs to be purged of Jenova, since otherwise he can never truly pass on and rejoin the lifestream. The same might be true of Cloud.

[@RIELSG]

You can't purge Jenova cells from Sephiroth he was created with them that's what make him special

[@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv]

Another that Reunion did change or rather highlighted more is that they put emphasis on Aerith’s fear of the “sky”. How she prefers the midget par plate above the slums as the natural sky makes her feel like she is going to swallowed up by it. This a direct call forward to Remake where she echoes similar things at the end of Remake before the credits before it starts to rain.

[@FFR98]

Great conversation guys!! Would like to point out some of the characters archs of the rest of our hero team, particularly the fate of Tifa?!?! I feel like there is a thread there that is being overlooked where she may be the one that gets killed, and that would catapult Cloud to be the protagonist again, and how Zak and maybe Aerith could be conflicting interest, because of her "foresight" not anticipating a cost for her actions, and how Zak could be the moral core that keeps him on track. Just a theory.

[@bbpaulss]

HAS ANYONE ELSE thought of the fact that Zack and cloud both have the same Jenova and mako treatments so Sephiroth can control Zack around like a puppet just like he can control cloud in the og if he breaks them down

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

It may be one of the most common comments on this channel lol. But there is some precedent that this isn't the case. Ultimania and Crisis Core both vehemently confirm that Zack rejected the S-cells implanted in him by Hojo, due to his previous conditioning in the SOLDIER project. Its also important to know that Picturing the Past, an official novel written for Remake by Nojima clarifies that the "Reunion project" was separate from Project S. The reunion project started after Sephiroth was born, when he and Aerith were children. Hojo specifically targeted people with Mako poisoning to create the "Reunion Clones"... Cloud was a successful recipient of this experiment, he too was mako poisoned when Hojo injected him... which is why he is vulnerable to Sephiroth's control... now granted, Cloud is unique, he is clearly stronger than can be explained with current lore, and he is the only reunion clone not to physically turn into a robed clone... but that is beside the point.

[@cloudstruck2785]

@@schrodingersbabyseal Wasn't it mentioned in Crisis Core though that Cloud has the only "Pure" S type cell that can actually stop cellular degradation. Remember that Cloud was also a failed experiment too - or am I reading too much into this?

[@Metro4466]

What if the ending of Crisis Core is just Cloud's traumatized version of the events and the ending of the Remake is what "actually" happened?

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I have considered that before… it’s bold. My main issue is that it makes the Stamp reveal a little clunky… if Beagle stamp merely represents Clouds warped perspective, then they misused him (stamp) in the intermission DLC. Also, it might insult some audience members to assert that we were denied “the real story” in the original. But honestly, I can’t rule it out on those two things alone.

[@shro_okee]

my brains' melting, it's... it's possible

[@utahgator8895]

Didn't have a PSP. This game was awesome to experience for the first and clearly this is version is the developers intended to make.

[@ETHomerin]

I am very late to leave a comment here. I saw this video a few months ago, Babyseal, and I thought this was one of the most well-rounded talks you guys had. Between theories, excitement, concerns, and awesome info dropped this video is great! What's on my mind is that ever since the Ultimania confirmed that Jenova had been the more dominating factor in the Jenova-Sephiroth relationship in the compilation and the OG, my ideas about the true Sephiroth have been spinning through my head. It's like we're finally going to meet the true Sephiroth now that's he's broken free of Jenova's will. Something I've been wondering about: did a very young Sephiroth (age 0-4) ever know Ifalna during her time at Shinra before escaping with Gast? If Hojo had grasped an understanding of Jenova's mimic abilities, wouldn't he put Sephiroth (his failed attempt at producing a Cetra) near a real Cetra in hopes that whatever DNA was inside Sephiroth would imitate or potentially pick up on her abilities? I'll get to the point: What if a very young Sephiroth loved Ifalna? We wouldn't know that from a Jenova influenced Sephiroth, or a pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth that might have been more secretive. But a post-Nibelheim/post AC Sephiroth that has broken free of Jenova's will... I'm wondering. I just hope he's meaner and badder than ever! Rock on, Seal! Looking forward to the next one!!!

[@chrissquarefan86]

It's more and more clear that the development is based more on Jenova and the planet rather than on the main characters

[@grantronic4533]

FF7 Remake FF7 Rebirth FF7 Return

[@ThienTruong-iy5ix]

*scratches neck* , has sleepezi release his new video yet?

[@PetarBladeStrok]

Look at this beautiful bunch. Let's consume this bad boy of a vid with a cup of coffee and some snacks.

[@rowanmorris2187]

Fantastic insight as always. Thanks people!!

[@Dracobyte]

Great podcast! You have gained a new subscriber.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Welcome aboard! Really appreciate it ❤❤❤

[@Koniving]

Given the retcons in the timeline in the world preview, they opened up a whole world of possibilities when you include Before Crisis, such as changing dates in the BC timeline to coincide with other events, specifically putting the execution of the Avalanche leader with the day before Cloud's appearance in Midgar, and a chase that Shotgun and Cissinei both participate in which passes by the church on the same day... and the turk trial within two days after Cloud appears. This is pretty important as this means the turks looking for Zack are literally in Midgar right up until the day after Cloud's discovered by himself in Sector 7's trainstation. They also put the day that Jade Weapon is killed by the turks in exile... as the same day Reactor number 1 blew up. It's entirely possible and extremely likely that after the Arbiter is dead, nothing changes aside from the fact that throughout the entire experience of Remake, Zack's alive and in Icicle Inn, with there being exactly ONE buster sword. In this case, the death of September 17th doesn't happen per the interference of the Sephiroth controlled whispers -- the four that actively work against destiny throughout the game. Zack's continued existence helps to remove undesirable characteristics from Cloud, and per Ultimania Omega written mostly by the same person that directed remake, every time the 'voice' of the original game talked to Cloud, it was Zack. Except Zack never speaks to Cloud in a game directed and put together by the same person. Zack isnt' just absent, he's removed from Cloud's ability to hear the name; written out of the equation deliberately and in his place is Sephiroth. This is likely because if time -- or the memory of time -- is fluent and a change is bound to occur, it's already happened. Zack has already been saved. The stage already set. The players nudged to their roles regardless of their will. So on the 17th of September, Zack does not die after Sephiroth's mettling by using the whispers under his control, hints of which are located in Case of Lifestream Black and White, and Case of Shinra. These stories imply Sephiroth's intentions while under the control of Jenova, and Sephiroth permits his defeat per Advent Children, so that he could wrestle himself free of the control over him. Even the meteor is reclaimed, with it the memories he gave up nearly a year into the future after the events of Midgar.. This time he'll likely give up Jenova instead. Or maybe not. But back to the theory. September 17th, Zack and Cloud survive. Zack and Cloud take some time to arrive in Midgar. October 2nd or 3rd, Zack and Cloud arrive. Zack may have Cloud nearby or leave him resting in a clinic. Zack goes to visit Aerith. Aerith isn't there; a knowing Aerith may intentionally stay away due to whispers or other issues. There's also the battle on Sector 6 which could lead to some tragedy... or the fact thaqt on the 3rd, the leader of avalanche is going to be publically 'executed' in Sector 5.... that's a pretty damn good reason to go to church and cry. Either way, Aerith isn't there. Trying to find out what's going on, the chase that has Cissinei and Shotgun running from anti-soldier Ravens ensues, which somehow happens near the church and ends up on the streets above Midgar; pretty sure Zack can't leave himself out of it. Whatever the outcome, at some point he's going to leave his sword with Cloud and go help his other friends; nobody's really looking for Cloud, he'll be alright. And then in December on the 12th, FF7 (remake) begins with the timeline already altered, with not much changing from how we experienced it if at all.

[@Koniving]

1:35:00 there's no need for the game to rehash to tell us what changes with cloud, as remake already showed us the changes. In remake, Cloud thinks to murder Johnny and Reno outright. He scares Tifa, and makes Aerith stop him. Each time his eyes turn more green than usual. In Zack's place for every scene that Nomura told us in the 10th anniversary ultimania omega, is all new Sephiroth scenes and dialogue. Sephiroth has filled that spot in Cloud's head. So we already know the changes, as the past was changed before it was shown to us.

[@Koniving]

1:55:00 I think we may have to fight Cloud at some point, but I do not believe he is going to be sacrificed.

[@TheSteelers4190]

In my opinion this current voice cast is the best the FFVII characters have ever sounded

[@billionaeris1183]

You and everyone else...

[@mrplayfulshade]

You just gotta realize people will hate shit for no real hood reason because they are children who want what they want and not what's best.

[@Storm1Trooper5]

Yep

[@billionaeris1183]

@@mrplayfulshade It's not what's best, it's subjective. It's what's best for you, not for everyone else.

[@granddaddyotaku636]

I haven't watched the whole video yet. But I've been playing the game and I'm about halfway through. I'm pretty sure CC-Reunion is pretty much just a remaster. Updated graphics and voice acting perhaps. But the story seems to be the same. I like that because I feel like any of the timeline changes that are occurring in the Remake Trilogy will probably be explained in Rebirth. I doubt we'll get any alterations to the timeline in this one.

[@FloDaddelt]

I bought the game back then and just borrowed the PSP from a friend. It was just awesome to replay the game on PS5 now. Also the small things I notice now in the game that I have forgotten about. But I also remember once I got used to the combat back in the day I was fine with it.. but it deffo was cluncky.

[@8Phoenix8]

I thought about something. Zack has jenova cells, when he breaks down because he was too late for Aerith, he might get taken over by Jenova since he could lose his sense of self. 😮

[@kewnst]

will we get a flash back to the end of dirge with genesis? where he trys to advert seph from changing the timeline? is that the crisis hes triyng to avert? and fail .. at.( and thats why we get remake)

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

That is what I think... but who knows?

[@kickypunchy67]

Enlightening, as always. Thank you, sirs! You are pillars of the FF7 community.

[@lukeconner81]

What up bltzz!!!! Yo! Sleepezi!

[@EdoItachiAnbu]

I see remake as a sequel to advent children

[@christ3000ad]

I have a question. As far as monetization, do you guys all get money for a video like this, or just baby seal?

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Good question. For this specific video, only my channel gets the revenue (though it isn't much, I try and keep ads to a reasonable minimum). But as a result of this podcast, we were all given review copies of the game and given privilege to create our own content on it early. Which everyone has been doing, and quite successfully. So of all of us, I likely made (or will make since Sleepezi's three hour film on crisis core is still cookin) the least amount of money from this particular venture... but that is totally ok with me.

[@m.j.gallagher6756]

Awesomesauce

[@catarena8031]

I'm close to finishing. Not yet up to Minerva which btw, hearing that her fight is that tough makes me pretty nervous. The game is so fun to play! I'm still having fun with the materia fusion and chipping through the missions.

[@sevhoss]

I don't think a character needs to be interesting to be a great character. Zack proved that to me. He is just a simple dude surrounded by overpowered characters and trying his best along the way. I can agree that Zack isn't an interesting character due to his simplicity. However, that's what makes him great. Someone so one dimensional having such an impact is what really drew me in to Zack. I get babyseal's opinion on Zack, however not liking Zack's character because there isn't anything complex with him isn't really something I agree with it.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Absolutely, you can like an opaque character. You can like a character with no dialogue that serves as a plot device. I don't personally find Zack compelling, but I think what they are doing with his character moving forward has the potential to compel me.

[@dreamphoenix]

Great interview, thank you.

[@Jay.Bnll86]

Looking forward to seeing all of your upcoming projects. 😁

[@chainclaw07]

First of all. The Cloud that entered the singularity is not the Cloud that Zack carries on his shoulder into midgar. The Cloud that entered the singularity DID lose Zack, he lived the crisis core ending. That Cloud then left the singularity into the world where Zack lives. Our party is in a different plane in rebirth. Maybe the doubles of the party is absorbed by the lifestream maybe the changes goes back way longer than we imagine, maybe Barret died falling in corel in that timeline, Tifa in Nibelheim, Cloud of mako poisoning. And maybe Sephiroth killed Aerith. So now the party who shifted planes are needed to stand a chance against Sephiroth.

[@creativebodyflying]

Genesis didn't get his "gift of a goddess", so he's going to chase Jenova 😁

[@Kale13000]

Killing of Cloud would be incredibly egregious and probably make for a story I could never call FFVII. It’d just be… bad. It’d be like killing off Luke Skywalker

[@cloudstruck2785]

Totally agree - CloudI IS FFVII original and remake. I would be utterly pissed off (as I'm sure all true fans of FFVII would be) if they brought Zack back just so that Cloud is the sacrifice - it just wouldn't make any sense or enhance the story. The only person's death that has a major impact on the story and is indeed the real heart of the story is Aerith - the last living Ancient. Even though Zack is possibly in a different time line to our main characters, I'm certain that the time line will converge and Zack will join force with Cloud to destroy Sephy. The heartbreak of this is that they then both have to deal with the loss of Aerith, but because of their friendship and bond they'll overcome and who knows a new spin off could be Cloud and Zack as Mercs for hire - I'd buy that game straight away!!!

[@vincentgraymore]

@@cloudstruck2785 Kitase has said that Zack is "the other main character". Whatever they are going to do in the future, Cloud have lost his place in the spotlight and has to share it with Zack.

[@silentnoise6404]

​@cloudstruck2785 Its possible they will take place in two different timelines instead of join together physically. Possible Zack is fighting off one version of Sep and Cloud is fighting a different form of Sep. Two different timeline fights happening at the same time.

[@cloudstruck2785]

@@vincentgraymore I think he said he had a "key' role to play not that he was the other main character. That said - read my comment again I even said I'd be happy if Cloud teams up with Zack, I don't have a problem with that, but it looks as though you do!

[@Balto678]

All of my favorite final fantasy 7 creators in one video. This is too good!

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Wow, thanks! That means a lot , truly

[@MyKingofdiamonds]

Might just be huffing the copium, but I wonder if they’re planning to release an update in the next couple days that will either connect the game more to remake like Square did for KH3’s secret ending

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Believe me… my fingers are crossed so hard for this

[@skidmc]

when i hear these intros i always feel like Rufus asking "and you are?"

[@rnkkhv]

Nah. I think part 3 will be stronger than part 2. So I think the third part will be the most interesting.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

We were mostly responding to Kitase’s statement suggesting that many “middle” parts of trilogies are considered the strongest. I’m excited for both personally.

[@rnkkhv]

@@schrodingersbabyseal The head of development will always praise his game. I think there will be a lot of positive things from him about the 3rd part as well. But based on the Star Wars experience, I wouldn't say that part 5 was the best. I liked part 6 a lot more. And considering the original FF7, all the most epic events were on the second disc, so I still think the 3rd will be the best. But Rebirth I think will definitely be better than Remake.

[@eduardoramirezjr1892]

LOL. The Stamp stuff feels soo true. I didn't see it. Didn't pay attention to it. It's Random Graffitti. Then It got retconned as a whooole thing.

[@ThienTruong-iy5ix]

Just finished this, I really like the addition of NSP into this group. Really have a balance of enthusiasm and being realistic.

[@vulcanh254]

My prediction is that if Zack is still alive, he will reunite with Aerith at some point, they'll hug and kiss and that will make Cloud jealous. Which is part of Sephirot's master plan. I think the only reason why Cloud refuses to join Sephirot in his quest at the end of remake is because he knows deep down (from flashbacks) that Sephirot kills Aerith in the future. Losing Aerith is what makes Cloud despise Sephirot and grow stronger. So from Sephirot's perspective, killing Aerith was a mistake if his goal is for Cloud to join him. If you are in the shoes of Sephirot and can make things different (now that fate is dead), the better solution is to make Cloud loveless. By "reviving" Zack and making Cloud experience extreme jealousy, that could push Cloud to the dark side. lol it's probably not that though. I think Aerith will die in Rebirth but not at the part we expect. Maybe Zack could save Aerith from Sephirot actually. 🤔 These kinds of extreme changes would piss off fans I think, but it's what I'm hoping for. Like at this point, go crazy or stay home.

[@Rezetro]

I've got the biggest feeling that the major plot twist is that not everyone can be saved and sacrifice is needed to save another. Cloud and Tifa will die in rebirth and Zack and Aerith will survive this time.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I won’t lie… I’ve had that thought too. I can’t imagine people liking it though…

[@7knightsoftheround]

Night Sky Prince is valid! I agree with his criticisms, but I still love the direction of Remake.

[@MrTwentington]

I’ve had this theory for a while about what would happen to Aerith and what could be interesting. If she lives yeah sure those of us who love her get to be happy… but it feels like it’s lost something. If she dies yeah it’s sad… but we saw that before so why dangle this other possibility for us? And similar to what was said about Zack and the idea of failure I imagine what if Aerith is going on with her journey like a lamb to slaughter believing she must die she must join the lifestream to stop meteor… and then she doesn’t. Not only does she not die- someone else dies instead be it Tifa or Barrett or anyone else. And from there she spirals and we see a whole other element of Aerith that couldn’t possibly have been explored before. She can be all like “no! It was supposed to be me!” I think that could be tragic, interesting and it would expand her character in a whole new way. I think you could still tie it into the original themes of the story about death and loss and what Cloud had to learn that death isn’t this big meaningful thing, some people are struck down meaninglessly and cruelly who wanted to see another day. What if we see Aerith grapple with that and rise up to be a hero without joining the lifestream?

[@d_aye_d]

Hell yeah some Mystic Quest OST love. That’s a simple yet very effective soundtrack.

[@vindifference]

Honestly if Seal's assertion that Zack isn't supposed to be as likeable were true, then it would just further downgrade Crisis Core as a package for me in general. I had little reason to be attached to CC. One of the few things that would have me even rewatching the cutscenes from the game is Zack's like-ability. If that was never supposed to exist then that would retroactively make CC a worse game across the board and I'd be glad that Gomez would have subverted any initial intention for the character. I honestly don't find it to be a defense of a performance when a character is "supposed" to be less likeable in an "uncool" sorta way. Because whether they're supposed to be a nice guy, an evil despicable bastard, a stoic hardass, or comic relief; they're supposed to be entertaining, and therefore likeable in *that* way. There's ways to make entertaining "annoying" characters, and then there's ways to make annoying "annoying" characters. Moments where Zack rushes to hug Angeal, or yells at Sephiroth over the phone should be the kind of things that characterize him as goofy and impulsive in-universe. His ideas and emotion around them should show his naivete. Not the awkward-sounding delivery of lines that aren't inherently awkward. Intergrade Yuffie was a similar type of character and she pulled it off by simply being emotive and having range in the lines written for her; being invested in the things she was saying despite being a dork. Making Caleb sound like a puppy intentionally for the first few chapters seems to have only resulted in him sounding more flat. Like Yuffie, the "puppy" characterization speaks more to Zack's excitability, his enthusiasm, and some of his dimwittedness, which I don't really consider to be nerd traits. He's only "uncool" in the contrast that Cloud or Sephiroth's behaviour is supposedly "cool". People didn't think Zack was cool because he acts in that stereotypical Cloud/Sephiroth way. People considered him cool because the average gamer though that his excitable, funny, optimistic (and sometimes embarrassing) combination *was* a cool personality to have; he felt like a very approachable kind of guy. While Cloud/Sephiroth were more akin to being described as edgy and brooding. There was a mental shift happening where being serious was considered uncool, and being *less* serious was considered cool.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I may have been being a little hyperbolic and broad for the sake of humorous banter and ribbing towards Mr. Eezi. When I say isn't "supposed to be likable" ... I think a better way to say this would have been, he is supposed to be a little "cringe". I think overall I agree though that Caleb fell a little flat in the earlier parts of the game... though to be completely honest, I feel like it matched his intended JP characterization a little better than Gomez, but Gomez was infinitely more "palatable" for me in this portion of the game. So in terms of "a defense of his performance"... I do not think Caleb's performance in the early game should be defended. I do however find his performance in parts of the later game and particularly in Intermission and the Rebirth trailer... defensible... To your broader point... I think the characterization in Remake and intergrade is MILES beyond Crisis Core. Partially because of the amount of narrative space they have to tell the story, but also, I think they've just... become better at it. Intermission Yuffie is an EXCELLENT example of this. I am excited to see how Zack's development unfolds, despite my issues with his depiction in Crisis Core. I have a creeping fear that it will detract from other characters, but I really feel a shift in character development in the remake project that gives me some faith that they have learned to strike an appropriate balance. Anyways, I appreciate the feedback and thank you for watching!

[@noreehix5714]

There's is way too much smoulder on the screen, what a feast for the eyes!! In all seriousness, when I'm done with CCR, I'll come back but I'm leaving a like for the algorithm

[@motionista]

Could it be that one of the stories we know (probably either the Zack's death scene from the OG, or the end of the Crisis Core, because these two don't look the same) is in fact a false narrative, hence the absence of Stamp in the Reunion (and OG of course)?.. It would kinda solve the mystery of the main plot twist being seemingly absent in the Rebirth (Cloud remembers Zack). They could replace it with the "real" plot revelation...?

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

It absolutely could. But I imagine that would infuriate some people. It’s a pretty bold choice to just declare that the story you thought you knew was wrong.

[@motionista]

@Schrodingersbabyseal right, that would indeed be more fanfic'ey and would cause as much outrage as, let's say, Cloud dying. Now, I also remember that the devs have told us you can't change the past, which can be understood as the confirmation that CC is "the" past. So it seems they aren't going this way, but I wonder how do they find the way out of spoilering the main plot twist

[@davidballard1973]

@bbyseal, can you post video of this 8m minerva fight on hard mode? I spent a whole hour on her on hard before switching to normal so I could the trophy lol

[@d_aye_d]

Oh shit. “You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain” what if Zack is back to be the big bad?

[@Dinosberg]

I could see him being the final boss of Rebirth.

[@philiphall3626]

I also believe you should do a podcast with fans that aren't youtubers. A fan stream. As someone who has played ff7 since 8 years old (now 34). We have our own honest opinions and take on original, crisis core and remake. I think you should do that as it would be good for the fan base and to get a real trajectory on how final fantasy 7 fans feels. Also the smoke after the stabbings in nibelheim is that a censor or is it something that pertrudes to remake?

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Probably a censorship issue. I do occasionally do fan streams on twitch, where I just open up a Twitter space about it… also did a few on discord. I might do one next week and I’ll post about it on my YT community

[@philiphall3626]

@@schrodingersbabyseal wouldn't that be more of a vetting on your side pal? Even if it involved communicating and seeing if their video and sound capability matched yours? I have an interesting theory on the other cloud

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

@@philiphall3626 Twitter spaces is fairly good at equalizing audio issues and since it’s not on YT the vetting is less important for legal purposes

[@philiphall3626]

@@schrodingersbabyseal I'm.not exactly literate in the field, more zoom and Teams so I believe I'd be an audio disadvantage. But I really appreciate you getting in touch. Just a fan who since 8 years old that I thought would be something different than discord, if you know what I mean? Itst great you responded you're spot on for your interactions

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

@@philiphall3626 Twitter spaces is mobile only for participation... so nobody needs a mic... just a smartphone... and while that sounds like a recipe for disaster... it works surprisingly well and acts as an equalizer

[@JohnSears1970]

I played the original on my old psp 2000 before it broke. I'm going to replace that old PSP, put some custom firmware on it, and play CC again. I just *loved* the original game to bits.

[@philiphall3626]

Did anyone else see/hear the one line from the original voice actor of zack when he goes back to cloud on the rock with Cissnei when she gives him the bike keys?

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Yeah we do mention that here briefly… we were cracking up about it… we thought they might patch it before release but they didn’t. I have reached out to SE and have yet to receive a response.

[@mindxfuneral]

You can apply any amount of logic and lore to support Cloud dying so Zack can take his place as the “true protagonist” but to think they’d go that route is a colossal reach. Zack is a blip in the story of OG FF7. An integral blip, to be sure, but there’s no way Square ever intended for him to be the focus. FF7 is Cloud’s story. Zack’s purpose is to amplify it.

[@drumjod]

I'm so glad these guys are calling out how terrible the Crisis Core soundtrack is. Every once in a while, I read a comment from someone saying they love the music and I think, "What? How?" lol.

[@harrisonriggs8732]

This feels like a really long video for a a by the books remake (at least compared to the 7 remake). Like no, it will not affect it, because the story wasn't changed in any meaningful way. You get the same story experience playing the PSP game.

[@BienvenidoEspinal]

Zack will die again avenging Aerith's death which he will now be witnessing!!!

[@vulcanh254]

I hope playing Crisis Core isn't "essential" to appreciate or understand Rebirth because I guarantee 90% of players will ignore this port because it looks quite cheap and lazy as a remaster. I know they improved the gameplay but as a game it's just not as appealing and didn't age particularly well. If they improved the dialogue, redid cutscenes and added more cutscenes then we'd be talking about something that rivals FF7R. But as is, it just looks like an unimportant and unimpressive port.