What did Bach mean by 'violone'?

[@antoinepetrov]

This channel is probably the friendliest place on the internet. You learn a lot, you entertain yourself and you listen to wonderful, engaging music and people. Thank you for everything you do!

[@h-zhao]

Saw myself in the audience. Absolutely loved it! ❤

[@dbadagna]

The violone showed here is the smaller G violone, but isn't it possible that, in some cases, Bach might have wanted a D violone, which is a fourth lower?

[@Mini_Min_]

This was informative, fun and hopefully a format that we'll see more of. Nothing like the banter between orchestra members lol. I do enjoy the violone version, it somehow feels more "organic" (hate that word, but it's fitting here). It feels as if it was meant to be like that, the sound is more unified, nobody sticks out.

[@Samwise318]

I felt the same, that violone higher in pitch seems to blend better! As you said, much more organic.

[@ChericeGraham]

I agree. The double bass sounded lovely, but this just sounds more right/fitting/how it was meant to be.

[@thomashverring9484]

That was wonderful. Very interesting hearing the two versions. And it reminds me that I don't listen to enough classical music these days!

[@guilhermefreitas5970]

I really think on the name "Double bass" not to describe a single instrument, like oboe, clarinet or flute, this name give me the sense of how the instrument is used in Harmony, I love that fluid and confused history about who came first, the "Big conventional bass" or "Big Gambas". I'm very glad to hear a professional talking about, please post more videos like that!

[@petershoesmith3953]

You guys are the greatest. I love listening to you. Brilliant

[@kathyschreiner4852]

I always learn something new from these talented musicians! Thank you.

[@R_Jackson]

Thank you for sharing these. 🎻

[@d.j.j.g]

Thank you, Ms. Bruggemeyer! It is so good to have such a very concise digest of what we know from the research!

[@BB-xm8jc]

I like the violone, the texture sounds clearer.

[@herrickinman9303]

Both of the instruments she played are violones! The topic is WHICH violone did Bach have in mind when he wrote "violone" in the score. (The answer depends on when he wrote the piece.) One on the violones she played is a 16' violone in D. The other is an 8' violone in G. When she played with the ensemble the first time, she played the 16' violone, which was doubling the cello an 8ve lower. When she played with the ensemble the 2nd time, she played the 8' violine, which was playing in unison with the cello.

[@agogobell28]

Fascinating!! I hope you upload more of this kind of stuff.

[@fluteplayer8636]

Hi everyone. Flute player 86 here. Your channel is probably a friendliest place on the Internet. Anyhow, keep up the good work. Does anyone in the orchestra play completely by ear? If so, that's a good thing. I can't read music, and even braille music is hard to follow. Can you imagine trying to learn a piece that way? It's very confusing, Very annoying, and not to mention difficult to do. Some people can do it, but I am not one of them. I've seen a lot of different instruments in my time, but never have I seen a saxophone up close. I am a 23 year player of the orchestral concert Flute. I love JS Buck. The instruments I have seen in my time as a musician are as follows. Clarinet, oboe, Viola, violin, bassoon, trombone, Tempany, drum, and harpsichord. are all of the members of the Orchestra of enlightenment from the UK?

[@asyrafnukman1991]

Thank you

[@xerenas1593]

This is excellent! You should post more clips from your sessions like this :) Also, hello from a student of one of your members!! Aysha Wills (who’s an incredibly baroque flautist and an awesome teacher) has told me an awful lot about Lisa Beznosiuk and this video really showed me how much fun she is :D I hope to participate in one of your youth sessions when I’m next in England, but for now lots of love from Amsterdam!!

[@tombristowe846]

I don't speak Italian but I think the "one" suffix generally means big. Thus a trombone is a big trumpet and a Panettone is a big bread. The opposite of "ino" basically...like violino. Small viol.

[@mewsdo]

It would've been good to hear a bit more of that movement to be able to make a useful comparison... Great explanation of the problem from Cecelia!

[@markcox5385]

I prefer the 16’ sound of the double bass.

[@Serghey_83]

Это дело вкуса. Если музыканту понравится музыкальный инструмент, придётся ему по его сердцу, то музыкант не будет с ним расставаться. Мне очень нравится виолончель. В барочной музыке violone незаменим. На данный момент я не знаю, где ещё его используют.

[@krishnansrinivasan830]

Amazing :) & Thanks for sharing :)

[@alikhorsand2441]

That low string rocks!!

[@PlanetImo]

Very cool. Thanks. :)

[@nab626]

Nothing can replace the depths of the double bass. Why leave that beautiful space down under unfulfilled?

[@onceamusician5408]

for my sins i was a double bass player ( never knew about violones except as in a history text) and i have played most if not all of the Brandenburg concerti so you can call me prejudiced when i say i prefer the version with the double bass it is richer more sonorous

[@shiningarmor2838]

Even if it's not the one called for, it's clear to me that the double bass is the better instrument. In addition to being lower, it's also louder and clearer.

[@michaelwright2986]

Who knew, musicology, and specifically organology, can be fun. For what my opinion is worth (little), the version with the double bass is what I'm used to, with the alternative big thing, the sound seems more of a piece--the double bass does rather stand out.

[@idraote]

I'll go by language. Violone is Italian for "big viola" (with a shift in gender). I'll take for granted that by "violone" the largest available viola da gamba was meant.

[@ConanNugga]

More generally than merely considering Bach, baroque composers tended to write a bass line that simply functioned as presenting the note they wanted as a foundation, letting the occasion and musicians available decide the continuo lineup. Bach, esp in the Brandenburgs included cryptic multiple bass lines that seem specific, and yet unclear at the same time. In Vivaldi’s concerti, it is pretty clear looking at the bass lines that he was thinking in terms of the cello, leaving the continuo and possible doubling of the bass an octave down to be adapted to the cello part by other musicians. Only in opus 3 does he have 2 parts, a cello and a violone part. It is unclear whether he meant the violone part to be at pitch or an octave down. Most groups double the bass an octave down, but I think it’s more of a 50% chance between the two options. Later in his career Vivaldi meant an instrument doubling below the cello by an octave when he used the term violone. But I’m not sure that’s yet true of opus 3.

[@phwbooth]

Very interesting. Does the baroque double base have frets?

[@joaopaulochavespinto9685]

Yes, the double bass descends from the viola da gamba which always has frets. As time went on the double bass started to take characteristics from the violin family and one of them was the removal of the frets.

[@michaelbishop.]

So are scores restricted by instruments available, or instruments go out of fashion because scores don’t necessitate them?

[@agogobell28]

I’d say mostly the former.

[@elbschwartz]

These kinds of dynamics look very different with the benefit of hindsight. Composers of that era did not have the preservationist mindset that has since befallen classical music. They were generally interested in new musical technologies and experimenting with different instrumentations. But composers, performers, and instrument makers were (and are) also affected by basic issues of cost and convenience. When you specify that a less common instrument be part of your composition, there's a risk that your composition won't get performed. You have to work with the pool of available musicians in your area.

[@gerardvila4685]

​@@elbschwartzMy guess is, that at the period of writing both bass viol and double bass were in use, and Bach himself may not have known in advance whether a particular orchestra had one or the other, or possibly both.

[@tonyevans9999]

fascinating

[@kidmohair8151]

yay OotAoE! not that that actually answered the question... but hey. the music.

[@nataliakhomenko5325]

Commentary in support of the channel: six words for the algorithm.

[@johnhunt1805]

A Violone is one you have to returne.

[@jackscheppert]

Violin = small Viola, Violon = big Viola. Tortellini Tortelloni.

[@Muzikman127]

Violoncello: small big viola

[@corgilove2070]

😂

[@saidtoshimaru1832]

4:23 - 4:34 - 🤣

[@fdarchives_]

😂