What Did Equal Temperament Make Us Lose?

[@vintagemotopros3955]

I truly enjoy your presentations

[@111111222223]

This is magnificent! I've never heard that kind of harmony before, it's so relaxing.

[@10thdim]

Aren’t they wonderful? When you hold them up in front of you there’s a warmth and a width that I didn’t really capture here… today I discovered my iPad Pro records its movies with mono audio!

[@sumac777]

Beautiful. Thank you for all you have taught me. Love the long hair.

[@de-ja-vu]

Good to hear from you again, brother

[@DragonSageKaimus]

Love the hair man...I watch your videos regularly.

[@LesterBrunt]

These bells are amazing! So beautiful!

[@cygnus_zealandia]

Very beautiful sounds, Rob, very 10D, Omniversal even. Best regards.

[@10thdim]

Thanks for the great input! Back in the 80s I composed some music in 10TET (yes, ten has fascinated me for a long time). I called it Metric Music - ten notes to the octave, ten subdivisions to the beat. I even got a luthier to re-fret a guitar that way, which meant the only fret that didn’t move was the tritone. Interesting to write and sing music where that was the only “normal” sounding interval! Thanks for writing!

[@timchorzempa6637]

"All is waves!" @10thdim, greetings from Michigan, USA!

[@antoniusnies-komponistpian2172]

If you want perfection of sound, just intonation is the way to go. But if you want to make music that is complex and interesting, equal temperament is way more useful because it has another form of symmetry. Through just intonation, all music you can make is strictly hierarchical. With equal temperament, music becomes more egalitarian and democratic. You can still build hierarchies, but they are way more flexible. The compromise is to get more and more microtonal, which is probably the most interesting, but also the most complicated to build. Digitalization helps us to open up more opportunities regarding tuning systems though.

[@10thdim]

Back in the 80s I composed some pieces in what I called Metric Music: ten equal subdivisions to the octave, and beats subdivided in tenths. I even got a guitar re-fretted that way, which meant the only fret that didn’t move was the Tritone. Interesting to write music then where the devil’s interval was the most “normal” sounding.

[@sawik5]

I agree with you all and just wanted to mention Sevish, check his music out if you haven't already. Also i hear triton more like excitement, adventure or even arousal mora than evil or threat, but it also kinda depends on are we going up to triton from tonic or down from triton to tonic.

[@antoniusnies-komponistpian2172]

@@sawik5 I know Sevish, he is cool

[@FernieCanto]

"If you want perfection of sound, just intonation is the way to go." Except even just intonation leads to inherent imperfections, such as comma pumps. Music is not about creating perfection, but finding the beauty in imperfection.

[@cjcj3222]

Wild that you uploaded I was just looking at one of your videos today out of the blue from a long time

[@waffensuperninja]

Hi. I love the colors how they shift while you play the different bells.

[@quickcuts3000]

great to see a video from you. thank you as always.

[@frankmedina7660]

Glad to see you making videos again ✊🏽

[@Allplussomeminus]

Ah. You sage, you legend. You're back.

[@patternsinchaos]

I just shared this with another music lover who's been sampling theremin music. The theremin is uniquely free of pitch constraints, Because of this, the theremin evokes an "other-worldly" feel.. Most of the people who play the theremin try to hit notes in the conventional scale, but it doesn't have to be that way.

[@khashy87]

You were missed sir welcome back

[@yeahweburnstuff]

Thanks Rob! 😊

[@jeffelkins426]

I could listen to this all day!

[@jasperiscool]

Hi Rob, I’ve been a long-time follower and it’s good to hear from you again. I was pleasantly surprised that you’ve dedicated this video to my own expertise. That also means I have to set straight a few (admittedly very common) misconceptions. You introduce the (twelve tone) equal temperament in one breath with the Well-Tempered Clavier. However, Bach did not prescribe the equal temperament. On the contrary; the book with pieces in all keys served to not only show the versatilities of the common tunings (plural) but also to demonstrate the subtle differences of the various keys, emerging from non-equal tuning of the respective semi-tones. Baroque pieces are authentically still played on non-equally tuned instruments. For example, I keep my harpsichord tuned on Werckmeister III, not 12TET. Church (pipe) organs are also still tuned more pure than 12TET, because the imperfect resonance of two consonants will cause tones to ‘wobble’ if they were. There is not only 12-Tone Equal Temperament, by the way. Musicians and composers have experimented with equal divisions of the octave (or sometimes even dividing multiple octaves so the middle octave(s) don’t even align) that will be much closer to just or Pythagorean tuning. If you’re interested, definitely look up some pieces in 23TET, 53TET and the Bohlen-Pierce scale. Equal temperament was known and studied well before Bach, but musicians deliberately chose not to use that, since it was regarded less pure than other, more pure tunings. The thing is, music from those times rarely used chromatic notes to modulate to different keys. Keys weren’t fixed anyway. It was only during the 19th century that a pitch standard was desired. At the other hand, there are many renaissance vocal pieces that modulate between what we now would call keys (they used ‘modality’ back then, which is another approach to harmony). They solved the syntonic comma, which makes chromaticism sound out of tune, by just adjusting their singing to the other melodic lines, which means that a song could ‘drift’ in pitch, but always be in tune. More on that trick if you search for Benedetti's Puzzle. The beating out of pitch when playing a fifth on the piano is regarded desirable, because it causes other strings to resonate, which makes for a full sound. It’s the same reason each key in the middle register has two strings being played at the same time, three in the high registers even. While it’d be perfect to tune both unison strings exactly the same, room climate will detune them in relation to each other ever so slightly. It makes for a fuller sound than a single stringed pianoforte, the predecessor of the piano as we know it today. The same effect is used in string orchestras. One violin sounds quite pure, with two violins playing in unison you will hear every inaccuracy because two players will never produce the exact same tone and vibrato. With three violins that effect is lifted and instead, you get a rich and full string sound. This technique was taken into account with the development of the modern piano. The chimes seem to be tuned a=435Hz. The reason the piano sounds out of tune is because the ears have adapted to the pitch of the chimes after listening to it for a while. The piano suddenly sounds 1/5 of a semitone higher which clashes with what your brain perceives as in tune. If you’d play the piano for 10 minutes and then bumped one of the cylinders, your ears would tell you that the chimes were flat. It’s all a matter of perception. You start with a point and you base your perception on where you put that first point. For the curious: Earth: c e f g [Cadd2] Water: d f g a [Dmadd2] Fire: g a b d [Gadd2] Air: a b c d [Amadd2]

[@10thdim]

Strange, I replied to you thanking you for your input and talked about music I composed in the 80s in 10TET, but that reply is not here today. I am going to add your comment to the video description, thanks again!

[@jasminkaushal257]

You're the best ✨✨ it's magical 🎶 🎶

[@mikeoxsbigg1]

I really dig the long hair. Love your videos.

[@astrotometry]

Nice. Reminds me of some of Brian Eno's ambient experiments. Good to see you again, Rob.

[@10thdim]

Hey John, you too! I’m still hangin in there. How’s life?

[@astrotometry]

@@10thdim Oh gee. I wouldn't know where to start. My work has spun off into deep esoteric realms. I hope to return with a report someday. I recently discovered an obscure fellow who was on a similar path back in the last century. So few of these guys who can understand sort out our underlying standing-wave nature. I'll post his name with a link, but you may have to go into your comment moderation to see it.

[@astrotometry]

@10thdim I found this fellow from an old video from ~1978 recently featured on Jeffery Mishlove's New Thinking Allowed about a week ago. For some unknown reason, his upload has since been made unlisted: Time and Destiny with Charles Musés (1919 - 2000) Link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3qvaJaYmruBa80

[@thedanielstraight]

Hope you are well sir! These are fascinating. Edit: they have a tone and resonance that reminds me of those Baoding ball, the metal ball- shaped chimes.

[@10thdim]

No question, they have a warmth to them that is quite appealing when you’re up close! Don’t think I’ve heard of the Baoding ball, I’ll have to check that out. Thanks!

[@10thdim]

Oh! I had a set of those, but I think we called them Healthy Balls, that sounds funny to me now. Yes, I agree. I also remember a Fisher-Price roly-poly ball my kids had back in the day that made very pleasant chime-y noises similar to these. But the exquisite tuning makes all the difference with the Koshi Chimes!

[@LesterBrunt]

Equal temperament is beautiful and practical but only equal temperament is missing out on stuff. The resonance on tunings like just intonation is something that doesn’t exist in equal temperament. The resonance from an Indian tanpura is impossible to recreate on a piano. The overtones begin to sing in something as simple as a perfect fifth in just intonation. That is not to say equal temperament is not good. It is also very beautiful, balanced and all notes sound smooth with each other. It can produce sounds that just intonation can’t like modulating to any key you want. For me what I miss the most about temperaments is all the small differences between keys because that gives the keys an outspoken character. For me that is far more useful than being able to modulate to all 12 keys.

[@10thdim]

All those years of calling the fifth “perfect” really only hit me when I did exactly what I did in this video: immersed myself in the Koshi chimes for a while, then played a perfect fifth on the piano. Suddenly that interval didn’t sound so perfect!

[@SuperGamingDad]

Can I just say I love your voice?

[@10thdim]

: ) Gee thanks! What a nice compliment.

[@blairzettl3933]

The nice thing about almost all other instruments is you can adjust tuning 'on the fly'. For example on the guitar, the very last chord of Fantasia para un gentilhombre is a D major chord with tight voicing at the tenth fret. Many guitarists just play as it's written and it is grossly out of tune. If you pull back with 1 (index) and push slightly with 2, it's in tune. Not saying it's easy, but fretless string players do this as a matter of practice. Of course a string quartet with piano accompaniment can easily lead to an auditory fire-fight. You know, like the piano/bell tuning juxapostion taken to the Shostakovich nuclear option. Don't get me started...

[@cuberdoge22]

He’s back :D

[@TylerDane]

I dunno, maybe I just don't have a very musically inclined mind, but the piano sounds just as good as the Koshi bells, if a little flat.

[@Kastor774]

I literally watched a video last night on why Pythagorean tuning, while having neat ratios, ended up not fitting properly their notes.

[@-_Nuke_-]

wow this is so cool!

[@FernieCanto]

Just intonation often just sounds out of tune to me. My ears are so attuned to equal temperament that, when I heard a just major third, I really have the urge to "correct" it to an equal tempered third.

[@ObjectiveGamer]

Love the hair

[@Soundsyouhearswithyourears]

I was doing research on you and if what I read is true you have a music studio in Saskatchewan! Hello from Calgary

[@10thdim]

Hi neighbour! Yes, Talking Dog Studios was a big part of Saskatchewan’s film industry for decades, we did the sound and music for many films and TV series, including all six seasons of Corner Gas. Back then I had 14 ProTools rooms and as many as 27 people working for me. But in 2012 the industry collapsed here when the government cancelled the film labour tax credit, and I gradually laid off all my staff, until by 2019 it was basically back to just me. I still work on shows though. For instance, the Scott Eastwood / Mel Gibson film Dangerous was released a few months ago, I did the sound design and 5.1 mix on that one, and my son Todd (who is known on KZbin as lildeucedeuce ) did the score.

[@ollllj]

yes, you can EASILY make very nice SHORT RANGE instruments in perfect thirds or fifths, BUT they will never sound as good on larger ranges, mostly be bound to a single octave, and not at all work well together with other instruments of a different octave range.

[@10thdim]

No question, we gain a LOT from equal temperament. This video is a reminder of what we lost.

[@DubDTube]

Cool, curious what the rationale is on the choice of notes per chime. Ever fiddle with cymotics Rob?

[@10thdim]

Great question, it’s interesting how many notes are shared across all four chimes, but they do each have such a unique character. Here’s an entry I created about cymatics back in 2011: imaginingthetenthdimension.blogspot.com/2011/01/cymatics.html The lovely relationship between these notes would probably create some interesting visuals if you could make them loud enough to vibrate a plate, but I suspect they would all look similar, since they all share the same tuning. I thought the designer’s choice of a major quality for the fire chime was interesting, as I was taking that one out of its packing I think I was expecting it to be minor, but fire as representation of energy makes sense for it to be positive.

[@DubDTube]

​@@10thdim lol, figured you had. "universe is a shadow of an extra dimensional hologram" -R Branton ... heavy bro. 😂

[@-JA-]

👍👍

[@sanchezdot]

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@SigmundFreud187]

More sophisticated wind chimes. And not your $50 fifty dollar wind chimes. Sounds like strike one and strike two and homerun ‼️ Pink Floyd would love these. Pink Floyd drummer at least.

[@Psnym]

Nick Mason is fantastic, he’s still touring! (at least up until Covid started)

[@mrtony1985]

Now sing Moose Jaw Woman over these sounds.

[@10thdim]

It’s interesting, a capella singers can naturally find tunings that are not equal tempered. Barbershop singing , for instance, requires very specific tuning of the intervals to give that style its unique sound. So yes, we would most likely tune the harmonies slightly differently if we were singing along with Koshi chimes!

[@TrismegistusMx]

At first I thought I couldn't hear it, but now you've ruined piano for me!

[@10thdim]

Ha ha, I know what you mean! Now when I play an open fifth on the piano I hear it very differently - they call this “perfect”?? But hey, add in a bass line and some other notes and you can ease your ears back into equal T.