What do audiophiles listen for? Too old to be an audiophile?

[@garyfred88]

My dad is in his 80s with substantial hearing challenges and hearing aids. I recently played some of his favorite jazz from the 50s and 60s on the system I put together for him to use in place of a mediocre sound bar on his TV. Mission bookshelf speakers and a Sony receiver from more than a decade ago as well as a simple Sony subwoofer. I didn’t expect him to be able to describe what he was hearing when we were listening to Brubeck and other tracks of music he has long loved but to my surprise he was able to pick out the better recordings and also able to easily discern the difference between the mediocre equipment and the better equipment. The various parts that make up our ears and the degradation of those parts overtime is only part of what we call hearing. Those parts feed information to our brain and our brain processes that into an audible image. In other words we hear with our brain. No wonder experience knowledge and training lead to improved abilities in audible discernment.

[@billfife6569]

I experienced the same thing with my father who is in his very late 90s. He described accurately at least to my ears what was happening to the sound stage as I moved the front wall acoustic treatment around when I was experimenting to find proper placement. Hearing aids and all. He has a musical background but this still astonished me given his poor hearing.

[@DomRivers67]

This is an interesting comment, there is a school of thought that beyond a certain age very high resolution is pointless, inaudible even to aged ears....and to a point that is demonstrable. However I've found the exact opposite, having a high resolution system, compensates, to a point for the loss of frequency hearing.

[@EskWIRED]

@@DomRivers67 what you said makes a lot of sense to me. I think it can be likened to looking at a painting through glass. Somebody with poor vision would not be able to see the painting very well if low resolution glass was used over it. On the other hand, if there were extremely transparent glass, the equivalent of a transparent audio system, the person would be able to see the painting much better, despite minor problems with visual acuity.

[@timchi7484]

Hearing is literally one of the last function to go at the end of our journeys on this earth.

[@DomRivers67]

@@timchi7484 Total hearing is, yes, but high frequency hearing departs fairly early on

[@DavidD-eo8ts]

I love listening to everything you say in your videos Thomas. Your conversational style keeps me glued to the screen.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@velchuck]

I’ll be 74 soon. My hearing is fading away. I have tinnitus to boot. The higher end is a problem for me, and the tinnitus makes it worse. I do use a graphic equalizer and it helps compensate for some of my issues. But I love to listen to Oscar Peterson, and I get by. I’m so happy to hear you discuss us older audiophiles and the way we perceive music. Many thanks.

[@markharris2798]

I have listened to Oscar Peterson on various types of systems , high end to budget. He absolutely sounds good on all of them! Keep on Listening to the music...

[@farbschlachterei]

I would recommend to invest money into advice and support from a good hearing aid acoustician and ultimately into good hearing aids. At around $3,000 to $3,500 you can find an approach that will bring you very close to your old hearing. Tinnitus is another issue. My experience is that the tinnitus increases with hearing stress and vice versa.

[@kerbyfab]

Thank you for all your hard work Thomas. Your videos are a great resource for audiophiles and your input is much appreciated. Have a great week.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Much appreciated!

[@ljbrandt500]

I've been on my journey for about 15 years..always frugal, buying and selling used gear with my tastes changing over time.... I've enjoyed this hobby while trying to raise a family, so I consider myself a weekend warrior...and there were weeks or months where I sort of lost interest and stopped listening...then I figured it out...what I was looking for...I wanted my system to elicit emotion, goosebumps, sadness, happiness and excitement. For me, it was the realization that highly sensitive, very dynamic speakers were the key...and they had to be big for both presence and bass...enter JBL...there is a reason the Japanese consider legacy JBL to be endgame. I personally have found that JBL cinema speakers with large horns at 100+db/watt sensitivity works for me...if you want more refined enclosures, the k2 series will do it. Happy listening!

[@dilbyjones]

Yep. Honestly this is a great way to approach it . Classical helps find out if your system can represent dynamic swings.

[@dennyshonda]

I'm glad we had this talk.

[@stereo8893]

Thomas - You are a breath of freshness. I love your talks. They're so real and helpful. - I'm a fan.

[@gil3green]

It's the uniqueness of the descriptive words you use that are important. If you stop using words that come natural to you, then you risk sounding like everyone else. I watch and subscribe to your channel just for that reason. So speak your mind. If a singer sounds full bodied etc, I know what you mean.

[@markscott7583]

Great video and perspective - enjoyed it.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Partly inspired by your experience with all my tube amps.

[@JamesWilliams-gf8gm]

Great video. These discussion are far more enjoyable to me than equipment reviews and separates the channel from others.

[@Langeloudspeakers]

Beautiful talk, engaging, comprehensive and focused on what matters in qualitative audio reproduction;

[@skip1835]

By pure happenstance I watched Whitney Huston's movie, the Bodygard last night - the sound was coming directly from the terrible TV speakers - by picking up my nearby remote I could have easily pumped the movie through my main reference system - but I didn't bother - - twice, her singing brought tears to my eyes - - although my primary system is pure joy - for me, I don't need it to feel connected to music - I've had similar experiences with my car radio that's anything except "hi end" - - so, when it comes to the music itself, I can be emotionally involved regards of the playback system. And you can believe me when I tell you I'm one of those nic picking, over the top, fussy audiophiles.

[@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa3093]

Music that I connect with simply grabs me regardless of the device that's playing it. Doesn't matter if it's the speakers on the Sony LCD in the kitchen, portable speakers, the audio in my Accord, headphones, or my >$8000 two channel rig. All the music I fell in love with during my early teen years were enjoyed at best over a crappy JVC amp with mismatched speakers placed in the corners of my room, or at worse mid range Akai boom box type device with detachable speakers. I'm blessed that now I can have a blast listening to pristine CD rips or hi-res streamed copies of those albums on my two channel rig, and I remember those earlier days (events, moments, emotions at the time) with FAR lesser gear (if you can even dare call that gear lol).

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yup millions of people connect to music with their cheap earbuds. There is no one way and that is why it pisses me when people say you need $5000 DAC to hear emotions.

[@8000audiolab]

totally agree and the bodyguard soundtrack is defo worth buying

[@whitneykr]

Loved this, Thomas. Please share more perspectives from other audiophiles. It's fascinating!

[@bernardchesneau3091]

Very welcome presentation of what audio is all about

[@Audfile]

When I was a beginner I wanted everything I'd read in forums. 3D imagery, sound that comes from all over the room like a stage not only obviously from the speaker cones, bass that sounded like a bass instrument, utter clarity to the bottom of the recording, air, all of it. My first real speakers (that rapidly replaced a modded low end speaker with a high end crossover), were modified Magnepans. I built gigantic diffusers behind and in front, and got a sealed, dual opposed 12. I nailed it basically first try with tons of research and cross referencing and reading between the lines. I soon added high power, high resolution monoblocks and was in heaven. I've added several different types and gear and changed a lot, added more speakers. Don't have room for the Maggie's right now but they are still in the bullpen.

[@JetEarlewood]

You said (wrote) the magic word (IMHO) “Maggie’s”

[@Audfile]

@@JetEarlewood nothing like em!

[@iBeaver1973]

All the senses have this ability to "language" the experience. Taste and wine. That's a whole world of its own. Happy to grow with my listening "language", thanks Thomas for your conversations! I'm running el34 tube setup, and open baffle... usually drinking an Italian single variety and listening to mainly jazz jazz funk folky blues.... live recordings where existing... I'd say what could be missing is the visual sense, to make the trinity of senses. The wifey does well to fill that in😂😊

[@ThomasAndStereo]

😄😁😁

[@audiorick841]

Great video Thomas! And about describing sounds in an alternative way outside the usual audiophile lingo, I applaud you for trying to find new ways to make people understand how music sounds. Don’t let the naysayers get to you and please keep going 👊🏻

[@rotaks1]

Great episode. Very strong arguments. Never thought of high-frequency hearing loss in this way.

[@cnhhnc]

Wow! 12K! Yeah, that's just about right. And I'm starting to lose that because I'm quite a bit older than you, Thomas! Of course I think I can still hear most things, and can appreciate differences in audio. Yes, I can hear many of the audiophile qualities; soundstage, imaging, dynamics, transparency, tone, and so on. If a speaker is bright, yes, it bothers my ears even though I can't actually hear above 12K, lol. Here's an example-I've had the Elac Debut B6 and the B6.2 in the same room. And, yes, they sound fairly different. The B6 is a fun, warmish speaker, with a rolled off top end and slightly loose but prodigious bass (for its size) and a larger than life sound stage which is exaggerated but, again, fun to listen to.. It's successor is more of an audiophile speaker, more revealing, somewhat brighter, more accurate and tighter more accurrate sound stage, imaging and bass, also faster bass and so on. And that's from a set of ears that will be 70 in a few years, lol. So how, would people say, can you know it is bright. Well, that's not entirely honest since brightness would be noticable under 12K. Think about where most music reaches to-4-5K as a high (the 88 keys of a piano). Perhaps some might hit 8 octaves, which is still just below 8K. Only the recent 108 key piano can do nine. So what does that mean? Well, even if your hearing is worse than ours, the good news is that you can appreciate music well until into your golden years. Hearing loss is not really an issue for most until it drops below 8K and individuals start having trouble in even lower ranges in understanding speech. Thankfully, for most of us, the loss in high frequencies is so gradual, we really don't notice it and our brains, and experience, compensate, adjust and adapt. Thus we can still do what Thomas says above. So, fire up your gear and enjoy some tunes already! PS, my wife is Chinese, and I'm an academic who has lived and worked in China so I was amused by your aside on mouths and bodies, lol. Believe it or not I'm familiar with this, not for myself, but from interactions with my wife and other Chinese. It makes cultural sense!

[@stevepk8742]

Hi , Thomas . I understood you and truly agree wz you. This is what I am listening to into this hobby.

[@hermesortega4833]

Age doesn’t matter on what you can hear 👂 the best studio engineers average age is between 45 to 60 . They have more experience than a young audiophile therefore can pick up everything! Excellent video as always Thomas!

[@aussie8114]

Not entirely true actually, before the advent of visual screen aids to show what’s going on, the older engineers mixed according to their limited hearing, it was often not very successful.

[@RennieAsh]

Reduced high frequency hearing can allow a greater insight into the other frequencies perhaps, but can also lead to overcompensating for what you used to hear.

[@MarcusLedesma]

As someone who is very early into serious listening I have not yet settled on a set of criteria or method for evaluation. I find the idea of different evaluation frameworks like you describe fascinating and would love to hear more. Subscribed!

[@TheRufrider1]

Exellent vid Thomas, great information, thank you

[@Chapterrifik]

As always another awesome vlog to add on the belt. You are spot on Thomas, as I've mentioned before, I suffer from tinnitus and to top it I also have hearing loss can't hear noting under 3db at 2000hz/2100hz but it doesn't stop me from recognizing a decent hi-fi system. Alot of people who have expensive gear are surprised when you tell them your system could sound way better with the right speaker placement etc. I say having a little experience could stretch your bank along way, but alot of people unfortunately depend too much on gear and don't rely enough on experience.

[@Audiofreak71]

Excellent video Thomas 👍

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@brazillm10]

I really enjoy your content Thomas. You have a great personality and your passion comes through. Keep it up sir.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for watching

[@voltaireesteban7600]

Cheers! This is like having a good chat over a coffee by the terrace! I get what you mean. I relate this to my car audio tuning..i was tuning it to be very revealing that at the end it did not sound engaging anymore. But after i tuned it similar to a very descent home audiophile system would sound..there it just clicked for me! Good talk sir!

[@Suaveone1]

Hi end expresses the music in a more beautiful passionate way in which gives one more pleasure and emotion

[@joeycastillo1496]

Great discussion Thomas. I can relate to you saying “picture and describe” the singers lips or shape/age of the singer

[@Thiago_S..]

Loved the video, imho one of your best ones!! Thank you

[@erics.4113]

I appreciate abstract attempts at explaining qualities of sound. I believe it's due to sensation, and each individual experiences these differently. For example, you can dissect a food dish. Quality of ingredients. Expert preparation and execution. But no one can determine the sensations YOUR brain will experience. That is individual reality. I feel music is the same. The most important part of the audio chain in any system is ultimately the ears, brain, and connections between. And the combined, programmed, experience of that brain will do more for the sensations you experience than anything else. What I'm really saying is: It's all in your head.

[@JoseMorales-kr2ed]

Great topic Thomas. Just to share my very exact feelings... At this moment, in my current setup with bi-amped Quad 303's and a cheap but good Triode preamplifier - I am getting music that spooks me at almost every passage with realistic tone and timbre. Where individual instruments hang in space and where I can walk around the singers voice some what. Male voices sound - male. Deeper, huskier I don't know, realistic. The plucks of the cello are holographic, stick out in space. So do tambourines and anything with Latin music instruments. Bass is lush and frequencies are smooth all over. Double bass is textured, and different drum types are distinct even i playing all at once. I only have a two way speaker. Some recordings sound live specially when people clap after. Or if plates and cutlery are in the background. What is spooky is that I get realistic metallic overtones along with dynamics all together. Mid range tones are acute, thick and rich. I'm kind of in audio Nirvana but I know I can still suck out more juice out of my setup - but how much? I don't know. I can continue describe what I hear and also the faults if any one cared. I only have one audiophile friend who would. My wife wouldn't.

[@andershammer9307]

I wish I had more friends who are audiophiles. There is only one guy where I work who is. I have a system now that sounds the same to me as live classical music yet I can still hear more detail as I improve my system. I guess that detail is there at the live concert but only if you listen for it.

[@frostycanada6404]

Hello Thomas, a nice departure from your regular reviews. I wouldn’t call this a rant video, but more a Thomas talk. Love it, Brian

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@lebohang8405]

After tweaking my current, old system by decoupling speakers and my sub from the floor I noticed improved sound performance, but reminded myself I'm not a sound engineer. With that I decided to concentrate of enjoying my music. Obsession can be u healthy. Thanks for the video 🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@paznewis107]

Having two languages gives you two viewpoints, literally places to stand, different places, different views. You keep on giving us the philosophy of audiophilia; Thomas Audiophillus...

[@normloo1590]

Bravo! A "element" few ever talked about. Another element you don't heard much about is floor noise

[@robk5745]

Great talk Thomas, but it's sad to me that you are getting roasted for talking about high level details of music and audio systems from your point of view. Whether we agree with your opinion or not it helps to look at things differently once in a while, it makes your brain compute in a different manner. I hope that you continue on this trend and talk the way you see it without fear of backlash, because I promise you, the real fans absolutely love it.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, sometimes I edit things out to keep it mainstream. Perhaps one day I should make a video going all out in my analysis.

[@robk5745]

@@ThomasAndStereo please do, I’ll make a bowl of popcorn and get ready to learn!

[@timleelim9930]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, what you have shared correlates very strongly with my own experience with the Chinese-literate audiophiles whose influences are the Taiwanese and HK based writers. They tend to have the same approach and listen to the same more limited scope of music (not all, as this is obviously a generalization) for the same things. That’s fine, they do them, but the cultural background leads me to stay away from them. Not that you can’t learn anything from them but the ‘I have eaten more salt than you’ve had rice’ and ‘my system costs more than yours, so what do you know?’ philosophy of many in this crowd could lead many a beginner (and not so beginner) audiophile who dares have a differing view to switch to basket weaving or balancing stones artistically as more satisfying hobbies.

[@GH-zs8eq]

@@ThomasAndStereo please do!!! You will and always will be my favourite audio youtuber!!!

[@herjantow.l.6063]

Thank you, Thomas. I do love my Elysian 4. 😉

[@pierrenoel5508]

I'm 100 % with you, For me , the only benefit of my Hifi sytem is the feeling to "be there" when I closed my eyes and relax. I'm listening music in my cars or even with quite good headphone. But this feeling to " be there" is what make me happy . Only my hifi sythem can bring me there. I do not care about all those audiophile volcabulary when I'm comparing gears. If I feel that I am in the same room, studio, concert hall, cathedral, jazz club, ... with the singers and players, it make me happy.

[@牧園-m4x]

It’s amusing that people can hear the shape of the lips of the female singer in the recording. I have been an audiophiles for 50 years. I now learn to use my imagination to hear the music. It’s a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing. It’s a lot cheaper to use your imagination than money to hear what you want to hear.

[@shanestephenson8423]

Great video Thomas really enjoyed this one. There is a lot to be said for experience. 👍🎧

[@tomfrank2707]

Liked this video. You are clearly a storyteller that bases his thoughts and opinions on his own experiences. I like this a lot! In the end, it's all about preferences. I've been an audiophile for over 40 years now and I'm still kinda stuck about the sound signature I want. Tbh, it's not always the same because I listen to many different types/genres of music. In my head; good audio should always replicate a LIVE performance. Unfortunately, that's not always the case when you listen to music via any medium. It always depends on the the quality of the recording and the source (as well as the speakers and electronics you have connected). I like a warmer sound generally but still want faster transient attack in the bass and tonally correct in the mids and highs. I like treble detail...but not at the expense of smoothness. Like a live performance. Which leads me to my question, Thomas; what is better to you...a more lifelike, honest to a live experience sound...or one that just sterily reproduces the original recording (often referred to as "accurate"). It's a question that's been thrown around in the audiophile community for decades. Does it sound like you are at a live performance, or does it sound like it was recorded in a studio? For me, I'm always looking for that LIVE sound. I always want to feel like I'm experiencing a live performance when listening to music through my gear. It's about the tonality, soundstage, imaging, and naturalness of the bass; as heard at a live concert. To me, whenever I hear people talk about accuracy and truth to the source, it always seems to mean a dry, source accurate sound; that has no warmth or body. I guess some folks would describe my preferred sound as "coloured". Personally, I would prefer to call it closer to a live performance. Because that's what I'm looking for from my audio gear.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

For me, my answer might not be what most people want to hear but I like to build a system that is pleasant to my ears. I don't chase after reproducing a concert or whatever. Just when I listen to it, I feel good.

[@joshdekubber3631]

Great video Thomas! I appreciate you and hope you will incorporate more of you true self and thoughts no matter how abstract.

[@Rottvan111]

I am a true beginner with no audiophile gears and have been watching your channel for a long time. I have a 5.1 home theater system with Polk Audio Monito 70.

[@bobpachner7528]

Nicely done, Thomas. Enjoyed your take on the subject. I am a 68 years old. I started listening in a “trained way” by age 10. I recently upgraded my speakers. Why bother at my age? No doubt my hearing is limited. As noted by others, high frequencies still get to us. And our ability to discern tonality is still present. Don’t fear that getting older will lessen your enjoyment of your system. It’s still great, even at my age.

[@caryt59]

I listen for a violinist when they take a breath through each measure of music! I also listen for the sound of the wood as a piano player presses on the pedals. These are just some of the elements of background ambiance that most people do not notice on a digital recording. It also adds to the "open-airiness" of a recording, especially when played back on large floor-standing speakers! Yes, we audiophiles can be a strange lot, but that's what makes this hobby so much fun!

[@skularatna8136]

Do you hear this detail when you go to a live classical concert ?

[@caryt59]

@@skularatna8136 I work as a tech director in a midsize theater, and actually, at times, with well-placed mics, I do hear those details in acoustic performances.

[@skularatna8136]

@@caryt59 ahh you must have had really good positioning. I’ve listened to classical concerts at top halls like London’s Royal Albert hall but never heard this level of detail. I guess where you sit must matter a lot

[@caryt59]

@@skularatna8136 I normally sit in the tech booth, where we use near field monitor speakers, so hearing most of what happens on stage is of little difficulty and is quite clear! The theater speaker system is designed in a surround array.

[@skularatna8136]

@@caryt59 oh that’s cool

[@metatron-007]

When it comes to Recording and Mixing in Studio Land, so called "Old in Age" is very well respected and very well needed...

[@mkshffr4936]

I too can not hear above 12-12.5k but cymbals still sound like cymbals and I can still feel the passion and longing in the sustained high quaver in the Beethoven violin concerto.

[@yoonsoons8303]

I can totally relate, my buddy and I stopped using "audiophile terms" in our conversations long ago. While I agreed generally these words like soundstage, transparency, dynamic & etc has been the industrial standard & it eases discussion within audiophile community. We just don't focus in these areas anymore, we still spill terms from time to time, but it just not the criteria we'd like to listen in audio systems we encounter anymore. Just like Thomas & your friends, we start referencing systems' characteristic with our own description. Coincidentally shape of lips is one of it when we visualize the singer's imaging of the song, not only that, thickness of lips, meatiness of the throat/mouth/cheek, realism of saliva's sound & even body movement of the said singer, as weird as it sound but this is how we describe nowadays. One really memorable encounter is that we came across an In-Car system in which carrying a bulk of 10-20kilos passive crossovers that can barely fit under the car's center console. Hell know when the music kicks in, we can totally "see" the artist stages on the middle of dashboard, start moving to her waist & shoulder while singing, enjoying her own performance, from time to time she moved her mouth overly close to the microphone we can hear she changes her breath, and then we felt the breath. All these qualities coming from a 12V powered system, totally blew us away. To use audiophile terms in moment like this, to me is just... too shallow, it is just really not enough, not even close to describe how mesmerizing it was.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nice. Thanks for sharing your experience. I have heard some expensive car sound systems but none can do what you described so that is great to know.

[@yuzhang1974]

🤔 I can’t help wondering why Netflix hasn’t produced a documentary about "audiophiles"? 😢

[@bikemike1118]

Too complicated topic, too many different approaches, too many different opinions, too many ignorants

[@yuzhang1974]

@@bikemike1118 Yah... The biggest mystery of the century, waiting for Discovery Channel to join forces with Netflix......

[@hugobloemers4425]

Don't binge watch Netflix, grab a coffee and binge listen to your audio gear.

[@bikemike1118]

@@hugobloemers4425 …binge

[@lowiqsociety3135]

@@hugobloemers4425 That’s what I was told to be an audiophile, I only used music to listen to my gears, not the other way around.

[@peterschaldemose7861]

Resonance outside the actual spectrum of our hearing also influences the quality of the sound, we hear. Therefore, there is the potential to perceive clarity, distortion and so on despite not being able to hear the actual frequency.

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

Nice talk Thomas I agree when the system is setup correct i can 'visualise' Not to just hear . The other night i was listening to Michael Jackson thriller and at the first of the track A door opens and you can hear Michael🚶 across the stage from left to right and hearing those steps in between the speakers sounds so real blew me away !! Lateral Stage 😃

[@llkmiz]

Thanks Thomas! I think you should talk about whatever you want however you want without getting roasted. I also worried that as I aged I would not get as much enjoyment out of my my system. Although my hearing is not as good as when I was young I can easily hear differences in components and enjoy the subtle and not so subtle differences they offer as well as the amazing sound today's components can offer. Just enjoy!

[@milesdufourny4813]

Because I was given a vacuum tube table radio (Nordmende Boheme) back in 1967 when I was 12, the one quality I always looked for was rich tone.

[@ML-rm3vk]

honest pure sound that sounds life like.not spec.try to hear 6 percent dis no listenfor the music and how it moves one.great topic thank you peace

[@dicmccoy]

Listening to music on a cellphone speaker or Bluetooth speaker doesn't get me engaged and doesn't make me fall in love with the music. It lacks intimacy that a person can have with a song. This is why I love my 2.2 channel system. It made me fall in love with the music again.

[@RennieAsh]

Up close, some phone speakers are quite good. The effect is lost as soon as you move it away from your face though. And of course there's not a ton of bass, but they reach surprisingly low considering their size and the area of the aopening

[@jasonme3557]

If I can hear the scratch of a guitar that was not meant to be there that is good. I listen for the singers emotions when it was recorded. From my exp. The best speaker for this for me was the original Totems Forest. I got a set in 1999. That has the Dynaudo Driver and a Seas tweeter. So good. With that system the piano Sarah was playing.... Right in the living room. You can hear her teeth meeting in that system. IF you interested. My amp at the time was a Nakamichi Stasis. Such a nice setup at the time. Long gone. Good stuff Thomas.

[@johnloesche9744]

Great Discussion and we all should know multiple languages and multiple ways of expression. It so tiring to read or hear over used words. Great work Thomas!

[@Coyotehello]

HA! Hi Thomas, great video and topic as usual. I cannot believe that somehow when I binge watched your channel a few months ago I missed that one... But here we are. My first comment on one of the first of your video was a bit harsh but we went over this and understood each other. Great. So here, I think you touched many things and I will try to talk about a few, honestly. 1- One, I think many cultures are sexist, including Asian culture. That stood out for me when you compared the 'shape' of the female signers but compared the tone or age of the male signers. 2- I love that your spreadsheet for the audio evaluation is in French :-) 3- One thing is the ability to discern elements within the music, but also within the recordings and also of course the audio gears. And that is definitely experience and training. It is like granularity in an experiment, how fine to you go, can you go? Baseball size?, golf ball?, grain of salt? 4- An other thing all together is enjoying what you are listening to. Unmeasurable, imaginary. There are many facets into this but lets just mention a few. Every ear is different, every ear changes, so if all ears were the same we would start at a zero point base line on a graph and go from there. But this is not the case, so Mr. "A" might be deficient above 12K so might appreciate a system that emphasize the 12k area for "his" high frequencies. He might also enjoy high dynamic frequencies and push that edge a bit on his system, now have that system evaluated by Mr. "B" who has earing to 20k and he's a bass fanatic and the result will be a catastrophic review! 5- One more is what one prioritizes by taste. A bit like the above but one cannot have everything so, what are you willing to sacrifice that will not temper your enjoyment of the "listening session" (Those few words are a trap I will get back to...)? Personally I seek dynamics, and speed and transient responses, imaging... yeah, density and weight, bass and mid-range I like the highs but only as in when buddy Rich hits his Cymbals, I want it crisp. So I might compromise on stage, transparency etc. Now if your preferences are transparency and seeing the mouth of the signers my system will be heresy to you! L So to me reviews on "best hi-fi gear" or even best balance hi-fi systems means nothing. Quality means "something" and that is usually vintage or custom gear. Listening session... the trap. I have music in the background in my office all the time, I don't "listen" to it, it is background noise maybe something to keep me focus or energized me, I might humm to it. But it is not listening. Listening, sitting and intently listening for the pleasure of it is different. I will go a step further, to me the Hi-fi term is kind of irrelevant , the gear is only a mean to "listening" after all. If I could find ugly cheap gear that gave me what I seek, that is what I would get! So the fact that a piece of gear might be beautiful is only a "perk". Contrary to say a car, to me I cannot and would not push a car, but I love a car for its beauty, its complexity. So different goals and in that way I am not an Audiofile. I am maybe a "listener" . Cheers, 0k. I meant to write a few lines and I manage to write a short novel, sorry!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write and share your experience and thoughts. This level of engagement means a lot to me.

[@ferdi9554]

Bonjour M. Thomas, talking about music enjoyment. I think what makes the audiophiles pursue their journey to the ultimate sound, it's the same as mastering a dish or improving in a sport, the more your improve your skills, the more you want to get the ultimate goal of your perfection. In addition I have been listening to many songs lately, and I finally got the song that made me said "oh this is it", that's the real Hi-Fi experience, a pure enjoyment. Since it's a french album, if you want to listen to it. Grand Corps Malade : Album Mesdames.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for sharing the album. Appreciate it.

[@mkshffr4936]

I am probably not a typical audiophile. I want a certain level of fidelity and quality not for its own sake but rather for its ability to allow the music to speak fully. What I am typically listening for is the internal detail and subtle emotion. Dynamics and body also come into play.

[@brianbieniowski2777]

As someone with different listening objectives than a "typical" audiophile, this isn't the most approachable hobby. For what it's worth, I've found your commentary to be extremely warm and fun, even if I would not personally consider taking the same pathways you have in your journey. After all, it's your journey! It's great to have lucid commentary like yours to be able to see how others use high end equipment - it really helps calibrate my own choices and pathways. Plus some of these unintentional ASMR YT channels ought to take notice of your super relaxing delivery.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, we all have different pathways and it is fine as long we don't try to enforce our way on other people. I should make a rant video on that! Thanks for the kind words.

[@KT88gs]

Thats a great story/topic Thomas!

[@pithyginger6371]

Describing the shape of the singers mouth reminds me of that time I finally found synergy in my mobile iem system. Until my DAP conked out on me out of now where. RIP my audiophile journey.

[@hushpuppykl]

As a beginner it all sounds good. We get impressed by affordable gear. Then after 2 months we realise there more. Sell … buy … sell … buy. 🤣😂

[@JukeboxAlley]

Its true, being curious breaks the wallet. You can be plenty happy with what you already have....but...as long as you dont go search for something else and hear something better, if you keep searching, it never stops. Stop searching and just embrace what u got.

[@craigellsworth3952]

Audiophile Nervosa.

[@RennieAsh]

Always wanting to sell up But always needing to buy Until the road leads to somewhere And that river runs dry It's the curse of the traveller And it's sure got a hold on us

[@musiconvinylisbetter.1449]

@@JukeboxAlley exactly!

[@tkhubb]

Love to hear your take on the Peachtree Nova 500. Thanks.

[@soowat1190]

I love to listen to music, I like to play with my gear too, I enjoy them both. 😀

[@rockman22]

I think we all listen for what we like in our music. For me, I love metal and electronic music. So I like impact in the low end and sparkle and presence in the highs. The gear I like is usually described as "V-shaped". So I have intentionally tried to build my system around that concept. Clarity, punch and sparkle.

[@Bob.martens]

I'm just not an audiophile I guess... After a long and, at times, expensive journey I realised that all I need is a beefy amp, relatively sensitive speakers and a good enough DAC. And a good deal of common sense. In my case: Yamaha AS1100. Klipsch RP6000f, RP150m and vintage B&W dm2a (bass definition!). A modest but robust and reliable Topping E30 translates my laptop, CD transport and Bluetooth (for visiting friends, I don't use BT myself:) to analog. I don't have the dedicated space necessary to accomodate a more expensive system and apply room treatment to enjoy the diminishing returns. I of course plan on replacing the Klipsch with better speakers some day, but for the moment I'm not looking for anything. I sold my, otherwise universally praised LS50metas. I liked my RP150m much more.

[@lloll69]

Thomas, very important topic. the most important key to listening is to know what makes frequency/qualities becomes music. and allow us to enjoy and lost in time. in my opinion most people have good ears and know what's better. but very little people can pick out the important keys and develop and grow their system to something enjoyable. which is what really matters eventually. I always like to say.. the system is as good as the owners ear.

[@wngimageanddesign9546]

"Mr. Vintage" is very wise. A Shaolin munk of audio. Very insightful regarding can you perceive the age, shape and mouth of the vocalist. Cool!

[@JetEarlewood]

If you served in the Military and were stationed in Japan you probably loaded up with gear when you PCS-ed. I sure did. That was '82 and Digital Ready was the buzz word for speakers. Got a pair of 3-way digital ready Sansui’s. Yamaha Sub Woofer too along with cassette deck and turntable. CD players weren’t available yet. Went to the only High End shop in my area and heard SMGa’s by accident and was very impressed. My buddy who accompanied me wasn’t. (We served together overseas). When I moved back to Japan he bought all of my gear. I started over with a Micro-Seki 3-arm table and SMGa’s. Gave the Micro-Seki away when I got a Planar 3. Finally reached nirvana when I paired my Accuphase with a conrad-johnson PV-3!! I listen for instrument placement and how realistic the sound is.

[@russellmcquaid9950]

Good notes. Thank you.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

You are welcome!

[@clipperjay1475]

I keep things really simple I have about 5 cd's I use Classical Acoustic R&B Vocal Instrumental I play the same CD’s when testing Its good or its Bad to my ears Each elements provide what I look for even if my ears are failing as I can segregate each characteristics. Only thing that can throw people off is Records, they can provide a unclean source for example If I close my eyes I can a singer breath between recordings, some digital recordings have been filtered and will be flat. Records only come out on really good system, not necessarily expensive either! You don’t need labels to get the concepts which are why just listening to the music and enjoying it means the exact same things as segregation or labelling. I think I had learned to understand all segregation from a young age just by playing with a equaliser on every type of music just like a child with a new toy! A equaliser is a frequency modulation and a good example of you play and learn at the same time. Just because industry standard is selling you what they think is good, does not mean its right for your ears!

[@penangtv6108]

The Saliva Song 😁. Yes this was a term I heard translated from Mandarin recently when speaker shopping online in China. Asian audiophiles are indeed from another planet😀. My new Tidal playlist sorted.

[@stevethetoolman2435]

Thank you Thomas. I am attempting to be a better hifi listener.

[@robertbaird7001]

Cool video. Most young people haven't herd live music or a real instruments to compare them to whats coming out of a hifi.

[@twilwel]

What an interesting episode Thomas! Please use as large a vocabulary as you have, i enjoy it thoroughly. I consider myself an audiophile since the start of the Corona lockdowns. I got into audio gear when I started to make recordings of me singing overtones. (singing with my choir was out of the question). When you described how you imagine the shape of the mouth of a singer: this is very much how I learned overtone singing. Yes, I did have some great teachers, bit I also learned a lot by listening to cd's of the masters and imagining the movements of the lips, the tongue, the soft palate, the tension on the throat , the reverberation in the chest cavity, more or less nasality. Combining all the techniques, inventing new ones and making it sound good (!) has kept me busy for twenty years. But it is only recent that I became more obsessed with the reproduction of sound with hifi gear. A good set plus a good recording reveals even soft overtones that only a trained ear will hear. So, of course I needed a good set! I enjoy music by far the most when I sit purposely and listen to everything (and I mean every thing) that goes on. When I'm relaxed, I can feel the music in very specific parts of my body and this in turn has an impact on my emotions. I enjoy sad and solemn music just as much as happy music that makes me dance. I'm doing my best to get into as many genres as there are around and use it as an inspiration for improvised overtone singing. And there is even more, microtonality is a source of bliss for me but what I find most interesting is the elusive sound of silence between the notes like pseudo-acoustics which are not made directly by the instrument or voice, but indirectly in my brain. Flutes have this aspect most strongly, but many other instruments as well. Now, one can just dismiss these "sounds" and concentrate on the notes, but I'm pretty sure that all the really good musicians actively make the pseudo-acoustics to enhance their performance even further. It would not do if I did not make the effort to listen to -all- of their music! This is the most intimate music to me and it literally tickles not just my body, but most of all my brain. This is a reason that I sold my tube amplifier. Oh it sounds very nice alright and I do get why so many people like them, but me, I need a precise reproduction and not a coloured one to bring about the aspects I mentioned as good as possible. As to frequencies you can hear at older age, I agree with you Thomas. Music mostly goes up to about 6000Hz. However, I am a bit sad that I cannot hear crickets any more ;-)

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for the long comment. Appreciate it.

[@veetour]

Such a great video!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thank you!!

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

Fascinating discussion. IMHO, the Asian audiophiles you reference are on to something when they ask if you can describe the perceived physical attributes of the performer. It is a way of distilling vast amounts of low level information received from the system. We need not describe the elements but the combined impact of those elements to impart the magic of the illusion. Another that I add is "do you feel the emotion of the artist?" There are tracks that I play that cause me to involuntarily tear up at the same specific moment in a track. It is not a logical response like reading a poem that moves you. It is literally sensing and empathizing with the emotion the artist felt that is somehow conveyed in the sound reproduced. Similar to a mother spontaneously lactating at the cry of her baby while ignoring others in the room. All of these observations accurately measure the system in ways we could never measure or even describe.

[@amb3cog]

Oh, and also Thomas. Please don't hold back because some people can't open up their minds, and/or their hearts and appreciate all that music can do for us. Getting into music/HiFi has literally changed my life. And I've learned so much from this hobby. Most of us are here to help each other learn. And those that aren't, or those that think they already know everything, are better off being ignored. Because they're on a completely different page then we are. I'm always open to new things in every aspect of my life, and don't have time for those that aren't. Please try to think about doing this yourself. Just ignore them. It's not your job to change people's minds. That's a complete waste of your time anyway. Just explain your journey to us as it really transpires. You'll definitely garner more then enough loyal viewers by doing this. I have always been interested in what audiophiles in Asia think. And I'm sure plenty of other people are too. Not to mention. You're likely to pick up many new subscribers from Asia this way. Or at least Asian Americans anyway. ✌️

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Haha, thanks, one day I should make a review where I go 'all out'.

[@amb3cog]

@@ThomasAndStereo Sounds like a plan. 😁

[@Michael-bj4sz]

Thomas, I like your list of qualifying terms used to judge audio. I love music; I like new gear. I’m listening to lots of bla-bla-bla thru my stereo. I’m old, can’t hear and love my stereo in spite of my limitations.

[@ranelime]

Very interesting, graceful video! Especially that pokemon part... I think you can and should talk about gear as you like, go abstract as much as you like. I believe most of us will follow. Plus, there's so much you can say using the same terms, and we do want to learn about the experience more than the specs...

[@winghingng5834]

As an audiophile since 1980s and is 66 years old. I am totally agree with you. I think our experience is more important than our hearing lose in the high frequencies.

[@ryanhelmer9369]

My Luxman reveals fantastic texture in the electronic synths. Just saying, that is my favourite part of this decent system. Most other stereos make the snthetic sounds too blurry or thin by comparison. Just saying, it is a preference that gives me so much pleasure.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for sharing!

[@JImmY1982MinG]

Young audio enthusiast here (lol), I happen to be Chinese but my audio journey started here in the states so I cannot say I am familiar with the terms you mentioned in the video. It is interesting though, from what I could see both facebook and wechat groups have lots of 'haters', therefore I don't normally care much about what's being said there, I just go my own ways and do research and listen to the sound myself truly likes, after all, music appreciation is a personal thing, have a great day.

[@genaishivatov1737]

For me, the first and most important place is the transmission of emotions, the mood of the performer. If the music does not captivate, everything else is no longer important. Now I'm more of a music lover, but 15 years ago I was an avid audiophile. I'm over 50 (I hear about 16-17K).

[@christianbello2275]

Congrats. Nice video...

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for watching!

[@GH-zs8eq]

Love your videos!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you like them!

[@stephencosta6814]

👏🏼👏🏼💪💪👍❤️❤️❤️❤️Fantastic review Thomas I copied those things you put up on screen very interesting I would listen to your remarks on equipment 100 times over then some 25 year olds

[@anthonyhopkin]

Well described Thomas. Informative and entertaining, as always ;¬D Greetings to you and yours.

[@metatron-007]

I like the sound of the young and old. This could go with my other idea for a studio plugin which would be where you can change peoples accents, for example American to Egyptian and so on.

[@humanitech]

I guess it's all relative to the individual! As most people listen to music in a more general/holistic way... and either enjoy (or not enjoy) the overall composition, or the specific aspects within the music like emotional connection, the groove or the beat or the melody or just the lyrics to sing along too or feel connection! While others are far more interested in the technical aspects, the sense of realism or the level of detail of the individual instruments and musicians within a piece...but also still like or dislike the overall composition too. Therefore it's all a highly subjective personal journey and rabbit hole ...which hopefully gives meaning, pleasure and joy (and sadness and frustrations)....for all.

[@ledze973]

I know what you means, right I'm listening to Eva singing trough my Reisong/Elac b6.2, and I see her beside me playing guitar.

[@glenncurry3041]

It was explained to me over 50 years ago that an audiophile is someone that listens to noise and distortion.

[@aussie8114]

It’s fun to listen to audio and try to tweak everything, but at some point it’s not a bad idea to settle and start enjoying the actual music.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yup, I am at that stage, just listen to music.

[@Kowinaida]

I'm sick of so called audiophiles deprecating equipment they've never heard or tweaks they've never tried. More often than not it's those who can't afford high end equipment so criticise those that have these systems even though they have never experienced them. I enjoy listening to your reviews & general opinions as it's genuine & cordial. Your videos don't try to be stylish in order to be cool (like someone I could mention). That's not to say they're not well filmed & edited, they are! Please continue your approach as it's very engaging.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, yeah that would be my rant if I made a true ranting video.

[@Simon-dn9kv]

Thomas, did you watch the video "Listening" on Stereophile's youtube channel? It gave me the idea, that although our ears loose high frequencies over time, maybe the high frequency information still reaches our subconsciousness via different senses and as a consequence we don't loose as much as one might think.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@fletchermunson6225]

Thia was a Rant? Thomas is so polite I couldn't tell.

[@dougg1075]

Never met him but I like … Mr Vintage. Thanks Thomas