What Do the Great Eagles of Middle Earth Actually Do?

[@margaretalbrecht4650]

The Eagles also function as guards, messengers and scouts. They guarded Gondolin and helped keep the city hidden and safe. Gandalf used them as scouts. That's why the eagle came to Gandalf when he was held captive in Orthanc...not to rescue him, but to tell him the news they had gathered. Gandalf also used them as scouts again after he came back to life. As you mentioned, it was an eagle who carried the news to Gondor that Sauron had been destroyed. And if the Eagles are really the voice of Manwë in Middle-earth, then they also gave a pretty powerful endorsement that Aragorn was, indeed, the rightful King of Gondor as the eagle referred to him as their King. Speaking of the War of Wrath you said, "A lot of the Elves and Men who are still in Middle-earth join in." Men, yes, what's left of the three houses of the Elf-friends. (Though most Men fought with Morgoth.) The Elves, no. Go back to the text. "Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said of in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands." The Elves in that battle were the Elves that came with the Valar from the Undying Lands. The Middle-earth Elves didn't participate in the battle and didn't know the details of until much later: "tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Yes, I should have specified which elves I was talking about.

[@KororaPenguin]

I wonder if, after dropping Gandalf off at Lothlórien, Gwaihir relayed to Erebor the news that Durin's Bane was no longer a menace.

[@jamiegregg9211]

I like the Map of Middle - Earth behind him its awesome

[@phoule76]

I like your new map!

[@Leahi84]

Fantastic as always!

[@garydmcgath]

Walter Moers' novel, The 13 1/2 Lives of Captain Bluebear, features a "rescue pterodactyl" named Deus X. Machina. He always does his rescues at the last second, even if he could have done them sooner. That strikes me as an obvious parody of Tolkien's Eagles.

[@Strideo1]

You forgot one other common activity of the Eagles: playing Hotel California.

[@carlp.6196]

And with their exceptional vision, they fix their gaze upon all corners of KZbin, claiming any video that uses their music at the behest of their great leader Donwe.

[@jamiegregg9211]

lol well said mate

[@tehwatcherintehwater2022]

"We are programmed to receive You can check-out any time you like But you can never leave!" - Manwë welcoming the Elves to Aman.

[@FranciscanGypsy]

The Eagle found Gandalf to rescue him from Sauruman when the Eagle was actually only there to deliver a message from Radagast. And he apparently said something like “I came to bear news, not passengers” when Gandalf asked how far the Eagle could take Gandalf. So the Eagles sometimes deliver news? But if they are Maiar (as I’ve heard they might be - maybe from you? My Tolkien channels are blending together) maybe they are just performing the heralding role that angels often do in the Bible? Thoughts on that?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

News bearing seems to be kind of unique to this instance and done only because Radagast asked. We don’t really see that happening otherwise.

[@decoutan3900]

Nice video! ....how tall were/are Elves?!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

As it happens, I have a video on height: The Height of Hobbits (and Other Middle-Earth Folk)

[@waltonsmith7210]

Arent they still Manwe's peeps? Do you think they still carry out his will in a direct way, or maybe they intuit his will in an indirect way?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Presumably they’re doing his will one way or another. Maybe they were sent with relatively specific instructions? Lol

[@waltonsmith7210]

Yeah,we know the Valar still intervene in their own fashion. In a way that avoids continents sinking.

[@tominiowa2513]

@@waltonsmith7210 - If you want to know there is less intervention in Middle Earth from the Valar in the Third Age, you need to take a deep dive into the portion of Catholic theology that explains why God allows evil to be present in the world (aka why Eru Ilúvatar does not simply walk into Mordor and give Sauron a good spanking for being a bad boy). This is also why Gandalf does not escort Frodo to the Grey Havens and sail to Valinor with the One Ring - presumably Aulë would have no problem destroying the latter in his forge.

[@someuser5532]

At First: Great Video, makes sense to me! At roundabout 1:00 you talk about an episode where a Tolkien professor explores the LOTR-series - which professor and which episode are you referring to, and how can one listen to them? I would be very interested to listen to such episodes, thus my question... ☺️

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

“The Tolkien Professor” is the Internet brand/moniker of Corey Olson. His podcast is under the same name, except he’s separated out the Exploring The Lord of the Rings podcast because it’s such a huge project.

[@someuser5532]

@@TolkienLorePodcast ah ok Great, thanks for your reply! And on what platform can I listen to those? Spotify?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Probably, I’m pretty sure he’s on every major platform.

[@someuser5532]

@@TolkienLorePodcast ok 👍👍

[@canonwright8397]

Love the T-shirt and the map. 👍

[@Theharrizable]

Maybe Manwe is watching middle earth from Valinor, and when he is very desperate to help, but wont help himself, he sends in the eagles.

[@simonmorris4226]

Currently reading Silmarillion yet again. I think you’ve just nailed it perfectly.

[@rmsgrey]

Yeah, as the ages pass, the Valar are increasingly limited in how much they're permitted to intervene directly in the affairs of the people of Middle Earth - before the awakening of Men, they acted freely and openly; when Melkor/Morgoth was active, they were allowed to move openly against him (at great cost to the world); when Sauron was a force, they could send agents to counter him - the Istari and the Eagles. With the coming of the Fourth Age and the departure of the Elves and much of the remaining "magic" of Middle Earth, things are pretty much left to Men to decide their own fates. Even in the War of Wrath, it was on the request of a half-human, half-elven emissary that the Valar intervened, consistent with the belief that it is for people to do what they can, and the greater powers will step in as needed to help with those things that are beyond us.

[@BerserkerX]

Listening to your videos while playing the Middle-Earth video game series is one of my favorite things to do. I wonder if you're familiar with the games...

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Define “familiar” lol

[@alexstewart9747]

What are the Eagles ?? That’s easy. They are the immortal messengers of Manwe who also do the bidding of the Valar. They seem to turn up after ridiculously selfless acts of bravery when the hero is in a helpless situation such as Beren & Luthien and Frodo & Sam or to salvage the bodies of Heroes like Fingolfin and Glorfindel after their final sacrifice. It’s almost like they are Tolkien’s angels lifting them up like their spirits transcending.

[@rosameltrozo5889]

Or Tolkien's crutch

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Did Tolkien ever mention if the Dark Lands were populated?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Dark Lands?

[@mrmittenns5728]

@@TolkienLorePodcast unknown lands to the far south east (I think) of middle earth and haradwaith

[@mrmittenns5728]

However to answer your question, No habitations in the Dark Land were ever recorded. The Númenóreans might have visited it on their long eastward journeys. If so, it is not known whether they established dwellings there. (according to the LOTR wiki)

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I don’t think he ever talks about those. If the memory you just sparked is correct they’re the “Dark Lands” precisely because we know next to nothing about them.

[@tom_curtis]

@@mrmittenns5728, "Middle Earth" is synonymous with the entirety of the globe after the downfall of Numenor, and of all lands and oceans east of Valinor prior to that. It is not just the territory of the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor and their neighbours.

[@tominiowa2513]

Some WW1 questions I would be interested to have considered in a future video: -There was a partial breakdown of the class barriers between officers from the gentry and enlisted men from the blue collar sector due to the common experience of trench warfare. Is the changing relationship between Frodo and Sam during the LOTR trilogy a parallel of this? - Was the blasted no-man's land between the trenches (some of it now the Zone Rouge where habitation and agriculture are even now prohibited due to soil contamination from explosive residue) a model for the Plateau of Gorgoroth in Mordor? - WW1 saw the introduction on a wide scale of industrial and mechanized warfare. Are creatures that were created to kill large numbers of humanoids at once such as balrogs a parallel to the new and better (in an effectiveness, not moral sense, of course) weapons of killing used?

[@timnor4803]

Tolkien despised allegory and was writing a myth... any parallels to wwI are yours

[@tominiowa2513]

@@timnor4803 - Tolkien did not write in a vacuum outside his life experience. WW1 certainly influenced his writing, if only on a subconscious level. Tolkien also did take parts of the real world into his writing, such as The Shire modeling agrarian areas of England not yet touched much by the Industrial Revolution and Rivendell on the Lauterbrunnen valley in Switzerland - these borrowings from real life do not make his works allegory.

[@simonmorris4226]

@@tominiowa2513 I actually live in the part of England which inspired the Shire! Tolkien lived for a while in Great Haywood where I used to keep horses. There is a pack horse bridge near there over the Trent which I suspect inspired the Baranduin and Brandywine Bridge! As far as I know Tolkien denied that LOTR was an allegory for either of the World Wars specifically. He merely drew inspiration from Dark Age and early Middle Ages tales which were quite possibly allegorical.

[@simonmorris4226]

The Great Eagles are the servants of Manwe so he would instruct them to take certain actions. However these could only take place if they did not interfere with the outcome of the Great Music of Eru. My theory is that Manwe takes counsel with Mandos who knows more of the music than any other so if it doesn’t affect the final outcome in any significant way Manwe instructs the Eagles to intervene in specific ways.

[@laangelsfan]

Good Topic 🤟🏻💯💯

[@wesbeuning1733]

I just had to add one point here about the Eagles. Considering that they're Manwe's servents or creations, and also possibly the earthly forms of Maiar in his service, (AND are also gigantic magic birds!), I began to look at them as extremely potent beings that are just going about their lives, flying way above where anyone can really see, but able to see amazingly far, with standing orders to rescue anyone they come across, and smite any winged baddies along the way. But other than that, they're just up doing their own thing, who know what. They're intelligent and divine, so I don't really think they're stalking sheep and nesting in twigs. The real question is: "Why wouldn't the ancient, worldly representatives of Manwe (or his "Holy Spirit") intercede?"or "Why WOULD they do anything differently?" Most of the time, maybe even Every time, the Eagle knew the character involved and was in the area doing other stuff.

[@mikeditka3997]

Perhaps someone here is flexing with his cool-ass lothr map, isn't he?

[@fracktar]

its been 4 years can you take a seat?

[@pwmiles56]

The eagle that brings the news to Gondor is quoting Psalms 27,4

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

You sure? That’s not how it reads in my Bible.

[@pwmiles56]

@@TolkienLorePodcast I meant the phrase "all the days of your life". In the Psalm it is "all the days of my life". There is also a strong hint of "O come all ye faithful", the hymn. (This is more closely followed in the Elves' final song at the end of The Hobbit. Then that calls up the fairies' lullaby in A Midsummer Night's Dream, the play our man hated! He was never afraid to re-write his sources). Perhaps I should have just said, the phrasing is rather biblical.

[@OneMoreDesu]

I think we fight it hard to understand them because they aren't Humanlike and probably hold very different values

[@Cewrin]

Manwe specifically ordered his eagles to poach the sheep of the woodmen in wilderland. Just for a laugh.

[@tom_curtis]

I think looking at interventions to determine the role of the Eagles is the wrong approach. Those interventions are exceptional events, and represent departures from their normal role, rather than the execution of it. In fact, Tolkien tells us about the role of the Eagles in the Silmarillion. In the tale of the rescue of Maedhros, we read: "For Manwe to whom all birds are dear, and to whom they bring news upon Taniquetil from Middle-earth, had sent for the race of Eagles, commanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth; for Manwe still had pity for the exiled Elves. And the Eagles brought news of much that passed those days to the sad ears of Manwe." So the role of the Eagles, in world, is to be spies and messengers for Manwe; and occasionally his agents to intervene in events. Of course, if your only interested in their role as a literary device, then their interventions are defining.

[@jessicascoullar3737]

This does make more sense than looking solely at their role in human (Elven) affairs.

[@alexstewart9747]

Good answer. As I’ve already commented, they seem to turn up after.incredibly heroic and selfless acts of bravery in hopeless situations. They saved Beren & Luthien, Frodo & Sam and Fingon & Maedhros who would have perished without the Eagles. They also arrived to salvage dead heroes such as Fingolfin and Glorfindel. Almost like angels transcending their spirits.

[@donaldwert7137]

Are the eagles immortal and do they live in Middle Earth or do they travel between ME and Valinor? Were the physical eagles who interact with people in Middle Earth the same as the eagles Manwe sent as a warning to Numenor prior to its destruction or were those eagles noncorporeal manifestations of some sort?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

They have eyrie in the mountains so I presume they live in ME. I don’t think actual Eagles were sent to warn Numenor; as I recall it was eagle-shaped clouds. But there are references in I think the Unfinished Tales of Eagles who would visit the central mountain of Numenor and those I think are at least of the same race.

[@donaldwert7137]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Thank you. I thought the warning to Numenor was in the form of clouds, but wasn't certain.

[@aaronmiller1947]

I know that I am late to this and I apologize I just randomly fell it into these videos so make each one of the rain span but I know you probably answered this in older video but why does and the Eagles just pick up Proto and Sam and take them to Mount Doom and a lot of instances even the dwarves in the hobbit I need to get to the mountain to a smog is why didn’t they take them there to please answer thank you

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

One Does Not Simply Fly to Mordor kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3bXmIhpqcuSpbM

[@ffnendhgrgd]

They tour Middle America

[@garycharboneau4219]

There is a rapport or connection between moths and Eagles also. But that may only be Peter Jackson 's imagination, since it's not covered in the book.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Lol yeah that’s not a Tolkien thing.

[@graxo3752]

They Fly. duhh

[@JonPITBZN]

You could have said "they fly, you fools," but you didn't. I'm disappointed.

[@virginiahansen320]

We all know that the eagles just bury the skeletons. Y'know, after they eat the rest of the body.

[@TorontoHighGuy]

Serve as plot devices, what else?

[@tominiowa2513]

"The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness." - Tolkien Letter 210 So obviously the Great Eagles spend their time being dangerous machines. 😉 But of course, just another reason why the Great Eagles do not fly Frodo with the One Ring to Mount Orodruin.

[@thegorgon7063]

Deus ex machina

[@tom_curtis]

@@thegorgon7063, the quote from the letter merely shows Tolkien was aware of the danger of using the Eagles as a Deus ex machina. However, in their actual usage, in no instance was their intervention necessary to the plot; in that the story could easily have been rewritten to avoid their use and with only minor changes. In the Hobbit, Beorn's intervention in the Battle of Five Armies could have been sufficient to turn the tide. In the LoTR, a spur of Mount Doom could have been high enough, and wide enough to give the Hobbits refuge from the lava flows till they were rescued later. And so on. If anything, features of the plot are arranged to necessitate the intervention of the Eagles because it is necessary to Tolkien's overall story that external aid needs sometimes to be needed. No hero of Tolkien's is entirely self sufficient; and those that try to be (like Feanor and Turin) are not entirely heroic, and come to a tragic doom.

[@tehwatcherintehwater2022]

The Eagles swoop in out of nowhere when they can accomplish an easy task that they can get public adulation from and then fly away whenever the situation becomes even slightly inconvenient to them, just like their master Manwë.