What does disc spin do? | Physics of Form ep. 8 ft. Danny Lindahl

On this episode of Physics of Form Danny tries throwing discs at the same speed, but with different spins to see if more spin means a disc turns more! What do you think will happen?
#DiscGolf #DynamicDiscs
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[@danielrosborne]

We need Mark Rober to build us a disc throwing machine that can launch discs with varying amounts of spin and have a consistent nose angle. He built a nice rock skipper, seems like a similar concept could be used for launching discs. It would also be super informative about exact nose angle that is optimal for distance.

[@Dah_J]

I was coming to the comments to suggest the same thing. I really appreciate the work he puts into these videos but a human can just never be consistent enough for a scientific video like this. Not to mention an aerospace engineer could probably give you the answer without ever throwing a disc.

[@1.4142]

Stuff made here did it first!

[@danielrosborne]

I just watched that last night! I hope he does a bit more with spin and disc angle.

[@maniacpwnageking]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of the physics of turn and fade, what about the disc changes them, and what about the throw changes them.

[@djwatson82]

I think a different way to think about it, and what I’ve noticed in doing similar testing is this: More spin elongates the overall flight path of the disc, meaning that it turns / fades “slower” or more gradually than the same throw with less spin. This seems true to me because this is the technique I employ to get a later flip on my discs. Since it’s spinning faster (and increasing the gyroscopic stability as you pointed out), the disc will still turn, but it’s also fighting that turn in order to remain at its current angle. The result of these two opposite forces results in the turn happening much more slowly / gradually over the flight of the disc, but the flight is also being “elongated” or “stretched out” by this same gyroscopic stability. This is also true of overstable discs as well. You can delay the fade and have it hold straighter for longer by adding more spin. Watch Ricky Wysocki throw his overstable discs. He has a very “spinny” throw (due to the exaggerated wrist coil), and the result in my opinion is why he can throw as far as he does with seemingly less speed than other long throwers. Just my 2 (hundred?) cents!

[@BillionFires]

Exactly what I was thinking (but you said it better)

[@DannyLindahl]

I agree conceptually, I just don't think it really changes nearly as much as would be intuitive. I think the other variables like angle of attack, speed, and release angle have a much greater effect.

[@jcjcjones33]

I have seen similar things when throwing through tunnels. The example being that I will try and give a little extra "pop" on a zone or harp and it will fly straighter, longer. If I do the same thing to a neutral to understand fairway, I can burn them over.

[@djwatson82]

@@DannyLindahl I definitely agree with that. I think spin can help make more subtle changes to the flight, and is definitely a tool in the belt, so to speak. For instance, adding more spin on upshots or short holes is a great technique because you can keep the arm speed low while using the spin to get a little more, straighter carry. Or as stated before, get a later flip in the flight without having to fiddle with adding hyzer angle.

[@onewheeldude3630]

Give this man a thumbs up. I believe he's 100% correct.

[@portlandpythonpyrates7148]

"Bad but hard" seems to be my strategy for most rounds. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@meb212]

That's like 98% of all my throws right now, lol.

[@mikefieldson6547]

Throwing indoors would be a good start to standardizing this test. Get R&D to foot the bill on a better camera and more participants (lefties, eighties, FH, BH). I wonder if any of the ball golf gear like trackman or GC Quad would be of use. Radar or photo based spin calculations. For myself, I'm like many here. Can't tell if it's better grip, nose angle and arm speed or spin because they're all tied together. The money in our sport isn't there yet to get super fancy with pure science and research but the company that does eventually will provide us all a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for all you do, look forward to the next video!

[@zooblestyx]

Yes! This!

[@dannybigflix9125]

Absolutely that’d be awesome! I hope to be able to do it one day!

[@p.w.7051]

We need to build a disc throwing machine, and by we I mean you. Maybe need to hire Jamie and Adam. Could do all kinds of tests on speed vs spin and how it effects shape and distance.

[@zooblestyx]

A for effort, but the conclusion I draw is that further research is needed. There's a lot of room for making your methodology more scientific. Higher framerate on the overhead, throwing in calm wind conditions, more consistent and more numerous throws, measurements of turn, and also, if you already know that sidearm has lower rpms, I suggest comparing amount of turn of backhand vs sidearm, to eliminate the need to replicate different rpms from a backhand only. In science, just as in disc golf, your results only really count if they are repeatable. Keep at it!

[@MaximilianBerkmann]

I totally agree. It's a step towards the actual answer a lot of us have, but this experiment lacked a lot of attempts and better control of variables (something solvable with a disc throwing machine whenever that'll be a thing).

[@zooblestyx]

I think prolly right after HL3 comes out

[@MaximilianBerkmann]

@@zooblestyx Sure..

[@DC-xf6tz]

My understanding is that the turn on a disc is the same as the turn on a fast ball (or tennis ball, Pingpong ball, etc). The air that hits the front of the disc drags along the rim and whips off 270 degrees from the front forming a “jet” that releases off the left and pushes the disc to the right on a rhbh throw. So spin directly causes the turn. More spin = more turn. It also causes the gyroscopic stability… as the disc slows, the gyroscopic stability diminishes and fade begins as the front of the disc is pushed up, rotated 90 degrees, and the disc floats down at an increasing angle. So more spin also lengthens the flight time before fading off.

[@Saculmit]

At one of our courses there is a 265' hole that basically forces you to throw a U shape anhyzer shot. Most people struggle with their disc fading out early. In my mind, adding an extra bit of wrist snap at the end was the key to getting the disc to hold that line. Seeing as the younger guys have more arm speed than I do, I believe this was more about RPMs than speed. I have nothing to back that up though.

[@ShardCollector]

Thank you Danny! It's very popular to say "do your own research" and that's exactly what you did. From what I've understood with moderate physics skills is that the spin has multiple effects on the turn. One of them is that the rotation causes different airspeeds to different sides of the disc. RHBH the left wing has greater airspeed and thus, greater lift, while the right wing has less airspeed. More spin means more difference in those speeds and in that way, more turn by actually tilting the disc in the air (even to a roller). But in the other hand, greater airpeed also means more drag and as the result the left side of the disc brakes more and curves the trajectory towards that side. Think of it like a good old banana kick in football. Maybe that is what gives the disc it's fade, then? I think you had also another explanation with the front edge of the disc rotating right and pulling the right side down, when throwing nose down? But since I don't throw that way, maybe that's one of the reasons my discs turn way less than they should 😅

[@pascalblais8301]

You can easily see the effect of spins with a short throw using low amount of power: for example, throw a putter with a heavy hyzer or anhy angle at a close target (~20m). Throw once with low spins, and another with lots of spins. The first will fight out of the angle quickly, and the second will hold the angle for longer.

[@jcjcjones33]

This is the video I have been waiting for!!! Thank you!!

[@benfowler2127]

Thanks for at least trying it out Danny.

[@Chaser90EK]

Dear Rusco, Danny needs a robot.

[@4HorsemenDiscGolf]

Great video. I've always been interested in seeing disc speed selection based on actual distance tested and compared. IE (assuming proper nose angle) If your max distance throw is say 350 ft or other measurable distances for comparison, then what speed disc should you be using. If you can throw a 9 speed Escape the same distance as a 12 speed Trespass, do you really need to bag distance drivers? Different shot shapes call for different discs obviously. But I'm kind of talking about a bench mark for players to kind of know open field distance averages where they should say, Ok once I hit this distance with a 9 speed I should try a 10 or 11 speed.

[@dannybigflix9125]

That’s fairly similar to the video I posted last week just using speed instead of distance. I guess distance might be a better metric though because it’s easier to measure! I’ll see if I can make that video happen!

[@4HorsemenDiscGolf]

@@dannybigflix9125 Last weeks video, coupled with this weeks got me thinking maybe distance is "easier" to measure and repeat and translate to players of all skill levels. Super excited to see if you can make that video happen!

[@CyberDarkZero]

A general rule of thumb I have seen on reddit has been take your average distance (in ft.) and divide that by 35. That number tells you the speed of disc you can throw

[@4HorsemenDiscGolf]

@@CyberDarkZero Thanks. Yeah I've seen that and heard it multiple times but I've never actually seen it tested. I just wonder if that "divide" by 35 is super accurate or just ballpark. Like assuming equal stability and glide and only increasing the speed of the disc, at what point do you start getting negative results on distance with the same arm speed and release angle. Always baffled me because I'll see some local players with not the greatest form, but not terrible, throw Rocs and E-mac Truths 300-350 but their control and distance drivers end up in the same distance range or shorter. So it just got me curious.

[@CyberDarkZero]

@@4HorsemenDiscGolf I wish I knew where that 35 comes from as well. My guess is that they have enough physical arm power to throw the disc that 300 distance and aren't leveraging the rest of their energy from good footwork/timing, hip engagement, etc. I know from personal experience I threw both a Buzz (Speed 5) and essence (Speed 8) on a slight tailwind with a bit of a hyzer angle upon release and both flew close to 320 feet. I noticed though my Essence faded out early whereas my Buzz got full flight. So for me, I would assume that this tells me I did not give the Essence enough spin to achieve the desired flight/distance I wanted

[@MoleDoesStuff]

The spin of the disc also imparts a speed differential between the sides of the disc while it spins. As one side of the disc is spinning into the wind and the other against it. So one side of the disc is going "faster" in terms of air speed. So less spin means less speed on the faster side of the disc. Which COULD mean less turn, but also the disc has less gyroscopic stability with less rpm so it could turn easier. Too many other factors that no human could control precise enough to use it effectively.

[@JRuns]

I'm so glad someone already explained this so I don't have to type it all out :) For anyone else interested in this topic, you can look into why helicopters need a cyclic control so they don't flip over when they start going forward. It's the same concept.

[@callawaycass5148]

@@JRuns a disc is different than a helicopter. Unlike helicopter blades, the disc spinning does not generate lift. Additionally, there is no hanging body below the disc that is trying to impart the rotation.

[@JRuns]

@@callawaycass5148 Sure. There are obviously far more differences than similarities when it comes to discs and helicopters. But the explanation of asymmetrical lift caused by the relative difference in speed of the advancing and retreating side of the discs is the same. Cheers

[@ryanmorgan6718]

​@@JRuns So basically gyroscopic force (from spin) acts like the little rotor on the back to keep the disc from just flipping over due to asymmetrical lift (also from spin). Right??? But spinning it more seems to add more significantly to gyroscopic force. Where as forward speed adds more to the asymmetrical lift...?? Spitballing a bit here as to causes... We know speed turns things over and spin keeps it stable (why forearm shots turn over more due to lower rpms)...

[@A-staticCal]

There's lots of engineers playing disc golf, I'm betting you could find one that can build a machine (or just loan you the one they built in their garage) that will chuck a disc however you want it to. Maybe speak to Justin Bilodeau on this. Word on the street is that he knows a little about the flight of things. Cool video and concept. Keep em coming.

[@DannyLindahl]

That’d be awesome! I’ve tried to prototype one myself and the problem comes down to all the different shapes, diameters, and rim sizes just being tricky to account for. I’m sure excited to see if someone makes one eventually!

[@benjaminoelschlaeger8747]

Turn in understable discs and straight flight in overstable discs is created primarily by the differential in speed between the two outermost edges of the disc (side to side, not front to back) and the discs aerodynamics. As the disc spins, one edge is moving into the air in front of the disc, creating extra turbulence, while one is turning away from the discs flight. It is also flying forward like a wing, so its overall profile affects its "stability" (in this case, its ability to create lift and remain airborne. Unless someone perfects a "knuckle shot" with no spin, there will always be that differential between the two edges of the disc and obviously any shot includes some speed. In terms of how that is effected by the flight speed of a disc or its spin, there are two things to look at. 1) The higher the spin rate, the greater the differential is between the two edges and the more the disc will want to "turn" because of its rotation. That spin also creates more resilience for the object in flight, think a football thrown as a spiral vs not. Speed on the other hand does not increase the differential between the two edges. Instead it only shapes the disc by interacting with the relative aerodynamic properties of the disc. The more flight speed a disc has, the more turbulence it will encounter, creating off axis torque on the disc that can also make a disc turn. In essence, both spin and speed create "turn" but in very different ways. I'd be happy to help you dive into this more if you'd like.

[@videosverigenu4621]

Please test different grips with different pressure points, and how it affects spin and stability

[@robertattaway7866]

The more gyroscopic stability, spin, the less likely the turn. The turn should come from the aerodynamics pushing the wing during rotation

[@samuelhedstrom2343]

That should only help the disc stabilize around its own rotational axis while gyroscopic precession should do the same either way

[@tseremed]

No, the spin creates the lift on the outer edge creating turn. It's exactly the reason it turns differently for FH and BH.

[@samuelhedstrom2343]

@@tseremed yes it creates the turn, but that’s present with both low and high rpm.

[@callawaycass5148]

@@tseremed that is incorrect. The spin of a disc does not generate any lift. The turn of the disc is due to gyroscopic precession.

[@tseremed]

@@callawaycass5148 gyroscopic precession is why it affects the outside edge of what? A spinning object.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

I think more spin = less turn earlier in flight but hold the turn or straighter longer into it's flight. Think of a FH less spin, compared to a BH with more spin. Doesn't a FH turn and fade more or does it simply fade sooner? I do think OAT or disc wobble is another factor as well which spin should stable out sooner. More spin = less wobble. I'm not positive on my statements,, just experience from playing forever. I think we can agree spin will stabilize a disc in flight, especially towards the end, now wether the early turn is more or less is difficult to understand. We have to account for some disc wobble even if it's very minor.

[@kevdonde]

What does spin mean for distance when throwing? Does more spin mean more distance? And why is that?

[@MaximilianBerkmann]

From what is known so far, more spin = more air time (or delayed fade).

[@matte1402]

So how do we get a McBeth or Simon to try this experiment?

[@markadkins9290]

I would love to see that!

[@chuckcole]

Mimic my form and you'll be sure to have less spin. 😁 I think my problem is two-fold -- 1) my wrist is not quite on the outside of the disc when it comes in to the power pocket; and 2) my grip doesn't give a good "pivot point" for the disc to create spin coming out of my hand. I'm really trying to fix these issues so I can get more spin 'cause I'm maxing out my distance and feel that more spin would equal more distance.

[@redmortensen4066]

A disc March it allows you to calibrate the numbers such as spin speed with nose angle for her degree and if any company is going to be willing to do it it would probably be dynamic so I think that needs to be our next move because I think your research holds a lot of weight and it would allow your research to get to that next level that we needed to break that stuff down scientifically

[@shagnastyfo20]

More spin= more stability

[@buzzlightyear3849]

I notice that with my rollers especially. When I get good spin on it . It will hold the cut line longer before flipping over.

[@finhunter1433]

I was told by some old timers at tournament this year that the speed rating on a disc is the minimum amount of rotations per second for a disc to maintain its true flight numbers.

[@Dah_J]

That could be true but doesn’t really make sense because it doesn’t take the speed of the disc into account

[@eraff1005]

Lizotte did a video with his throws versus the throws of a friend..... at equal speed, he had more distance than his friend. It is evident that discs need rotation to fly, and spin must be a factor in all sorts of Flight results. Basic "talent" for SPIN must have components of wrist flexibility, as the wrist to hands/fingers represent the end of the whip. There must also be a component of grip strength to provide a concentrated axis for rotation. You're on to a great topic.

[@johndavidson1944]

The fact that discs turn more when they are thrown into a head wind and the stronger the wind the more severe the turn, tells you everything you need to know about this

[@prattacaster]

Had a buddy a couple days ago really try to rip on a disc. It ce out really fast but went pretty high/hyzer. It was the type of disc with a distinct pattern and you could tell the disc was barely spinning, lol. It went about 150ft. It was the hardest throw I'd ever seen with absolutely no spin. It was probably really nose up as well.

[@oftankoftan]

Simon had a video where he threw against an amateur. Same speed, but simons went like 50ft+ longer. I think it might have something to do with "clean" release but since I don't know for sure, the only factors left are nose angle and spin.

[@breakthroughdiscgolf3117]

I would bet Simon creates more spin and has a better nose angle

[@Pwrcritter]

U throw further standing, then I do with a happy Gilmore approach, lol.

[@Trevor.Morrice]

I would say it is *spin* because I can get discs to turn over with my forehand, but they don't go as far as backhand that doesn't turn over.

[@timothykee9702]

Next you should test how much farther a disc goes with more RPM than another disc at the same speed.

[@nyqpi33]

Were you able to notice any significant distanced difference between higher rpms vs. lower rpms?

[@hunter_greene]

One variable you didn't mention that I believe plays a large part in the amount of turn a disc gets from spin rate is how scuffed the disc is. Gyroscopic stability is an important variable in the flight shape of a disc, but that pales in comparison to friction. For an exaggerated comparison, consider a new wiffle ball vs one that has been scuffed up for throwing breaking balls. If you've never seen this demonstrated you'll be shocked by the difference. Take two slightly overstable fairway drivers of the same run and scuff the wing up with low grit sandpaper on one. Thrown at the same speed and spin rate I guarantee they'll have visibly different flights.

[@Maniaphobia]

Considering he threw the same disc the entire time I really don't think that this is a factor. He only threw other discs to get a feel for the speed he needs to throw

[@trulsrohk9]

We know this... Beat up discs become more understable.

[@Maniaphobia]

@@trulsrohk9 so you think throwing the disc in a grassy field beat it up enough to alter the flight..?

[@trulsrohk9]

@@Maniaphobia I'm not talking about Danny's test. Neither was OP I don't think. Responding to OP's observation about scuffs changing flight characteristics.

[@captcork]

I would love to see another look at this with some midranges. I wonder if you'd be better at throwing at "turn speed" for the disc but with less RPM in a more controller matter at the slower speed that the mids seemed to need for turning. Also you might make 2 or 3 discs to the field (And to be the same disc for science, DD might just have to give you things off the shelf since the new ones will be all the same *wink wink nudge nudge*) As always, love the content and the way you continue to look at the game!

[@swillsie]

Danny on that bad boi look, miss the 'stache stud! Keep up the great content :)

[@schedulingfarmfresh3054]

Spin generates lift. Turn is from instability caused by disturbances in the air rushing across the disc. These disturbances are caused by the disc moving faster than the angle of incident is designed for. This is the same reason why all planes have a speed cap, and an overspeed warning. These disturbances in the surface of the flying object cause vibration that can be catastrophic.... case and point a disc becoming over stable and turning into the ground. This effect is called "dynanic roll-over".

[@NickCarroll]

One way I think about this is a) more spin = more torque and b) more speed = more power. I would think the greater spin would help the disc travel farther, and straighter, based on the speed of the throw. Not necessarily more stability, but greater momentum, allowing for greater distances. (Torque in and of itself is angular momentum, but I believe this also has effects on the disc in flight)

[@michael48072]

Great start on your beard...... You look almost 20 now...lol Great videos..keep it up

[@michaelskeels4442]

From an engineering POV what you should have done is tracked the differential. You dont have to only try to throw the same speed and less spin. You could also have tried to throw the same speed but with MORE spin. There are definite things a person can do to increase their rotation rate. PING has a robot golfer to test equipment. At some point this disc industry will have to do the same to advance the sport to the next level.

[@onemileperhour]

Subbed in hopes of more content like this! Great stuff!

[@runtoth3abyss]

It's rotational inertia. The faster you spin the more the disc will turn.

[@citizenkang01]

So from what I'm hearing from the last and current video, if your disc is crashing out, you need more spin to keep gyroscopic stability to the end. If your disc isn't turning, then you need more speed to force more air across the disc, creating turn. If your disc doesn't turn and crashes out, you need to get that nose down, and always choose a disc speed that is appropriate for your throwing speed and spin rate. When throwing nose down at driving power, does my disc turn and fade as advertised? Does it go noticeably farther than a similar disc with a lower speed rating? As soon as those stop being true, you've reached your speed limit, and you should choose fade/turn ratings at that speed, rather than compensate for lack of speed with understability.

[@callawaycass5148]

Before watching it, from the perspective of physics I believe more spin with the exact same air speed and nose angle would produce a flight that stays straighter longer. This should be true whether the disc is overstable or understable. So for an understable disc, less spin is more turn, but for an overstable disc less spin is more fade. I charted this out with a coworker some years ago using angular momentum and torque vectors and assuming we did the physics correctly, that's the result.

[@joshuarasmussen1107]

As an engineer, I completely agree with this. The gyroscopic effect causes the disc to be more reluctant to change it's plain, therefore it will fight turn and it will also fight fade if it's spinning at higher RPMs.

[@dwmichaels]

interesting, even if inconclusive :) I'd love to hear from the pros some of their opinions on the impact of spin.

[@discgolfwes]

I always assumed the more spin, the more stable.

[@Krazyheadcase]

More like a top so more spin =more distance.

[@scatterbrain9490]

Putting may be the way to check this test, everything slower but more repeatable, but use a midnight flyer or the Beatle, something very understandable for better visual

[@illhavethesoup]

Good stuff

[@videosverigenu4621]

Awesome. Thx

[@breakthroughdiscgolf3117]

Do high level players ever add spin to specific shots or do they just go for max spin on every shot and adjust other factors such as disc, angle, and power to make the difference. Personally i think this is easier instead of having to change how much their wrist snaps each throw.

[@RBadding]

How about a test: use accelerometers - attach them to your body - and see what the speed/acceleration is at each body part (knee, hips, shoulder, elbow, wrist, fingers) at every step of the throw.

[@RBadding]

Also do this with a beginner and see what is being done wrong.

[@LorenLemcke]

Discs turn when they are flying fast enough to generate enough lift to create an effectively nose-down angle of attack with causes a pitching moment resulting in gyroscopic precession (turn). That means nose angle and velocity are the primary factors dictating turn (other than the airfoil geometry itself).

[@breakthroughdiscgolf3117]

There is less stability, but also it would have less distance if you could do the exact same throw, but just lower the spin rate, correct?

[@thaddeusyoung3627]

I think that this extra turn from extra spin effect is more noticed at higher speeds. Also I throw max distance with three fingers and not 4.I saw a video with Garrett Guthrie said he did the same thing. I believe that it makes more spin. I have seen it with the lights at night golf.

[@tonydavila2606]

Spin stabilizes it I can’t remember who did the robotic arm that throws disc even the most over stable discs turned into a roller. They came out fast but kept turning over because yes they came out fast but had no spin. The spin stabilizes it

[@sphdg]

Well when i power grip a buzz I get a more under stable flight path vs fan griping it.

[@nathanieldutile8383]

Cool test,. I think it has more affect on the end of flight. You can see it best in forehands vs backhands. You'll see backhands hit, skip, and spin in place While forehands are spinning slow enough that they grab the ground and often stand up and roll, maybe a few of my own fan grip hyzerd up shots have done something similar.

[@Toddouken]

The spinning causes more friction on the side of the disc that is moving forward (relative to the flight of the disc) than the side that is spinning backwards. More spin means more breaking on the left side (for rhbh) which is responsible for the direction of the fade. A faster spin should lead to more stability, but I think you're right that the nose angle is the bigger factor.

[@DannyLindahl]

If it were a propeller maybe but on a smooth disc it won't do much. If it did we would see a much bigger difference in the two throws. Check out this paper I found: arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2002-3150 Specifically this part: "The typical S shaped flightpath exhibited from a backhand throw is dictated by the pitching moment. The angle of attack increases over the flight duration causing the disc to move through the zero pitching moment trim condition, close to 10° AoA. For a righthanded throw, the negative pitching moment on release causes the disc to roll (gyroscopic precession) and bank right, whereas late in the flight the positive pitching moment causes the disc to bank left. "

[@Toddouken]

@@DannyLindahl I didn't want to pay 25$ for that paper, but the section you quoted seems to say that when thrown nose down, more spin will result in more turn, while when thrown nose up, more spin will be more stable.

[@johntardibuono625]

Try adding some tacky substance to your hands to increase spin. Like major league pitchers. Check out Paul McBeths video on substances, you can see some effects of added spin.

[@suserman7775]

Seems like a quick and dirty way to generate less spin is to throw it forehand instead of backhand. Perhaps another camera can be used so check for nose angle

[@dojoadventures]

What are you using to measure your arm speed.

[@jerryhyland1554]

Am i missing something here? The question was does more spin affect flight and you tested less. I see your thought but i think people are wondering if more spin will turn and burn a disc. I'll save you the test ...It's obviously true more spin equals more turn n burn. Wrap your wrist around that disc and watch her burn .

[@jcjcjones33]

How many people do we need to harass Mark Rober, in order to get him to make a disc throwing machine for us?!? Other sports have them. We need the technology.

[@skeller61]

We need to get big enough that some engineer thinks it's worth his (or her) time and effort to develop a disc golf equivalent of ball golf's Iron Byron, which could be set with various swing parameters and then duplicate that swing to test things. For the Chromium Climo, you would need hyzer angle, nose angle, spin, and speed to be variable. I know disc manufacturers would love these. Anyway, thanks for the video. I think it's too much to ask to get everything the same except one variable, so it would be hard to isolate spin from other factors.

[@dougsayer9594]

If spin had a negligible affect on the disc… then why does a forehand throw finish in a different direction from a backhand throw?

[@Toddztank]

I am still having trouble getting the snap that everybody talks about. Can you help with that?

[@dustinschulz7897]

Danny. Use a neutral putter . Gett 20. Do the same test. Ur nose angle feed back will be better. N spin is more effective. Thx

[@Daniel-from-Texas]

More spin = disc flies straighter longer before it turns or fades.

[@danielmccachern2307]

Disagree

[@k2OS]

Which speedguns Danny using?

[@ryansuter4424]

Yes!!!! Speed gun!!!!

[@ciromassa7322]

where do I get that radar?

[@dougsayer9594]

Don’t mean to be a jerk! Love the channel, but in my opinion spin rate and spin direct have a significant impact on the disc flight!

[@carsonjewett3349]

There's also gyroscopic procession

[@74realworld]

You should throw those tosy discs with the chip in them to get more accurate results.

[@neilrankin4133]

More spin = More stability

[@textech6218]

Cool

[@Luuhaa]

Throwing it bad but hard is still farther then I've ever even got and their beautifully flat

[@RBadding]

Do you remember if the spin affected the distance, and by how much?

[@dickiebrewer1232]

Put as much effort into making a launch machine as you do in making these videos and you'll revolutionize how discs are tested and made. Until then, the accumulated error in your testing is exhausting. Love the effort and enthusiasm though.

[@FearTheWeird300]

From what I’ve seen spin help it hold line.

[@AgnaktoreX]

Dont know what got into you but you dont need to throw a disc as fast as you can to test the effect of the SPIN.

[@danielmccachern2307]

More Spin -> Centripetal force pulls rim outward in all directions. Middle of disc deflects down due to being stretched. Drag increased on top of disc and decreased on bottom causing turn. As disc spin slows during flight, middle pops back up. Drag decreases on top, increases on bottom and stability increases. More spin = more turn.

[@HuckingPlastic]

Why don't you build a machine that shoots the disc? You could control a bunch of factor like this.

[@joshuaseeley7007]

You should do forehand not try and slow your backhand. You will get much less spin at the same speed

[@kylegiovannini7200]

I think you should find a lefty. Conduct the same tests with them throwing either FH or BH and yourself the opposite. Try to throw same speed, same line, but a FH has LESS spin, ergo will not fly as far. Why else would the farthest throwers in the world (looking at you Eagle) throw BH for their max-D. At the end it does boil down to physics. The same aerodynamic principles that govern helicopter flight govern disc flight. More spin gives a choppa lift, less allows it to descend.

[@joeillingworth1141]

Contact The guy with the throwing robot

[@tseremed]

Yes. Even a rudimentary understanding of aerodynamics let's you know this.

[@Azecap]

I'm sorry but this video is borderline problematic. I hope no-one confuses these few throws in varying wind conditions with scientific testing. So many parameters are changed with each throw, from speed to angle to wind to nose-angle. Physics tell us that the more spin you put on the disc (while keeping everything else constant), the less inclined it is to change its angle (turn/fade) during flight. I appreciate the effort that went in to the making of this video, but you are actually testing physics models, and if you wanted to challenge those, you would need a much more stringent setup.

[@DannyLindahl]

Yeah actual scientific testing would be nice but this is what I can manage just as a guy doing it for fun. I agree that it should be that way, but I'm not sure the difference is as significant as it would seem intuitively.

[@EddyMetal60]

I disagree. I have a super fast arm but can only get 300ft sometimes a little more. I see people throw farther than me with obvious less arm speed and out throw me. But they get good spin on it, as I'm just letting it come out of my hand with minimal spin.

[@buzzlightyear3849]

If you can only throw 300 you definitely don’t have a super fast arm speed. You may think you do from the amount of effort your putting in, but that puppy is only coming out of your hand in the low 40s. And that’s ok you can come join my friends and I for the Friday night all arm classic 😂

[@namethem00]

@@buzzlightyear3849 He's over here throwing knuckle discs. 😂

[@Christopher-Lenz]

Turn = speed > spin + stability

[@hughbonus2227]

Try telling a baseball pitcher that spin is negligible and see what happens 😆 spin affects everything and is a key element to flight engineering. Saying spin has a negligible effect on flight is debatably on par with medical malpractice

[@DannyLindahl]

Spin vs no spin absolutely. Something spinning will absolutely fly differently than something not spinning. But the difference in the flight of a mostly smooth disc at 700rpms and 1000 rpms is negligible from my testing. There is probably a difference, but with all the variables I had, there wasn’t enough of one to overcome those.

[@hughbonus2227]

@@DannyLindahl bro, u only say that bc u dont understand how spin effects flight. You assume there is no difference but the difference is measureable equally to how a chainsaw slices thru a tree. More spin of the chain equals ease of path thru the tree trunk. The spin of disc thru the air at an engineering level supersedes your testing. This isn't a mystery and also isnt up for debate! We already know this information and have tested it thoroughly. There is a reason you put a chain on a tire to gain traction 😆 there is a reason u put spin on a curveball, just as there is a reason u put spin on a disc. Ur out of your league. Stick to media production and leave the real thought leadership to the real leaders. Just bc u can throw a disc and take measurements doesnt mean u are qualified to assess and apply those measurements to the engineering process.

[@ChadSolberg]

Is this your way of trying to say gyro isnt that important?

[@1.4142]

Here after stuff made here

[@reggierappis2530]

We need a robot that can spin it up to a known RPM and launch at the exact same speed and angle 😆

[@namethem00]

Mark Rober!

[@samhowl1152]

Another video where you're trying to throw on a horizontal plane that doesn't exist and it ruins the purpose of the video. You have access to professionals. Why are you the one doing the tests?

[@danielcockerspaniel]

Ugh, Danny stay in your lane. You have no idea you’re talking about. Greater spin rate increases the stability, where stability is the resistance to turn or fade. For a given spin rate, same disc, “turn” and “fade” is dependent on the fore aft center of pressure, which for a given disc is dependent on the angle of attack = flight speed and nose angle. If you want to explore the effect of spin rate vs forward speed on a disc, grab an ultimate disc which you can throw slow enough and it’s easy to vary the spin rate.

[@joeillingworth1141]

Physics disagrees

[@ruellerz]

meh