What Does GOD Mean? | John Vervaeke, Paul VanderKlay & Paul Anleitner

[@grailcountry]

Paul, I have to say this conversation really raises the bar. Thank you. Well done.

[@elektrotehnik94]

Indeed... Great work everybody

[@dalibofurnell]

I completely agree.

[@kbeetles]

This was a gift from Logos. Thank you - all three of you for "embodying" Him.

[@meinking22]

The best part of this conversation to me was the level of honesty. All participants were speaking from their salient perspective, without a desire to deceive anyone, and tackling the differences of perspectives in a vulnerable way. This type of engagement, this type of distributed consciousness as it were, possesses a beauty all its own. Well done sirs

[@betbuk]

Fantastic discussion! Three VERY well spoken, well read gentlemen... tria-logos? I helped care for my Dad in his last days at 91. While I was there sitting on the bed next to him, he says to me in his breathless hoarse voice, “I have been thinking about the Trinity. I have lots of time to think! Do you want to hear it?” I said, “of course!” Now I don’t know if he is repeating a teaching or a personal revelation and neither does he, but it sounded good to me and I had never thought of it like this. He said, “It’s all about the three ‘L’s’.... Law, Love and Life. God the Father is the Law. From Him we get the Ten Commandments. Jesus Christ is the Love because He came to earth and taught us how to Love. And the Holy Spirit is the Life because it connects us to God the Father, Jesus and each other. “ “WOW!”, I said and my head spun with all the things that synch up with that analogy. It made me think, God the Father, set not only the Law to Moses, but every foundational physical law in the universe! As he spoke the universe into existence he did it in LOVE through Jesus Christ. So not only did Christ, as He was manifest in his existence as a human on earth teach us how to love through his sacrifice on the cross, it was through Him IN LOVE that the universe was spoken into existence. Then I was thinking of the deeper meaning of the Holy Spirit’s connection to Life. In Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” So Life is the “animating spirit” that differentiates us from inanimate objects. So we are more than just “matter”. The word Pneuma(Greek), in Judaic and Christian usage is a common word for “spirit” in the Septuagint and the Greek New Testament. Life is Spirit.... the Holy Spirit! I think Dad hit this one out of the park!

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

wow, thank you for sharing this personal story!

[@betbuk]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner Thank you for the venue to share. We live in some wonderful times, don't we!

[@Orthodoxi]

What an absolute blessing in love your dad shared. He seemed to be entering into the holy lands. 😍 My grandmother did that for me after her passing. Her message was we are always light and love.

[@Bibbzter666]

I'm 1h11min into this discussion and the way John describes the problem of "no frame" is where I'm at. I barely get off the couch because I don't have a "frame" with an "image" that can propel me forward. I'm stuck on the couch looking for "the answer" and nothing seems to be able to withstand this deconstructive power. It's like I AM that dog.

[@the-chris-show]

fantastic conversation, finally addressing some core questions

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

Thank you, Chris! Keep up your good creative work, brother

[@the-chris-show]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner you too!

[@elektrotehnik94]

Check out Chris's work peeps

[@the-chris-show]

@@elektrotehnik94 🙏

[@philipnickerson210]

Paul A., thank you so much for setting a great tone for this conversation. There was great pastoral care taken here, as far as I can see. I heard more words spoken from the heart in this conversation than any conversation so far between John and Paul. It is probably also the natural course of a deepening friendship but from my point of view you provided a fertile space for that friendship to stretch and grow. Well done. Thanks to you all.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

I was also deeply moved by how personal both PVK and John were at several points in the conversation. Thank you for this encouragement.

[@SamuelAdamsT]

Paul A, I really found what you said about music around 1:43:00 to be really compelling in response to John's comment about jazz not having a conductor.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

I wish I could have articulated better in the moment, but there is a certainly a difference between Miles Davis and Metallica. Proper Jazz music certainly has a “spirit” that directs it and community rules that set boundaries (these are constantly being challenged and evolving, similar to how religion evolves with evolving cultural shifts). One of the key distinctions between Jazz and Pop music is Jazz is supposed to be played in the present tense, while Pop music is about re-performing the past (did you nail it just like rehearsal or the recording?) You are still looking to be in communion with the “Spirit” and it becomes abundantly clear when someone is not doing so and plays by a different set of rules or different “Spirit”

[@SamuelAdamsT]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner we always wish we had articulated ourselves better after the fact. Monday morning quarterbacking. I thought you articulated yourself fine.

[@jonnyw82]

Hey Paul, congrats on getting these two together for a great discussion. How luck are we to be able to listen to listen to these discussions?

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

I'm also thankful for the infrastructure and technology that allows this stuff to happen. We take for granted that all this stuff just works!

[@brendonlake1522]

I think what John is getting at at times is related to 'Christianese,' the jargon being used by Christians which I as a Christian roll my eyes at because it drives anyone from us who can't relate to these terms which resemble idols, we are stuck in clichés whose meaning we can't separate out. I've seen this when we have gatherings at church that non-Christians are invited to and these people start babbling clichés that noone from outside of the Church can relate to.

[@dalibofurnell]

Subscribed. Praise God, this is a blessing. Thank you for sharing! This conversation had me at WOW so many times, that I feel humbled and I feel a huge amount of love within me flowing in and out in overflow and I want to say that each one of you are so deeply loved. And you are demonstrating love. This is so beautiful. God bless your hearts. When it comes to John Vervaeke, I have a lot to say. I am so very grateful for him. He actually played a type of role or was somehow positioned in a way that I pursued God even more, I realized that i needed to participate more in my faith, and I noticed that I was in some ways sort of Bullshitting myself by thinking I was doing everything I could or trying enough to be a good Christian. I can definitely say that my relationship with God has strengthened and totally transformed into something that is hard to explain but I want to be alive, i want to live, i choose to , i love love, and i live to love, love lets me live and my life and heart has become more exposed to God’s light and love, agape in a way that I can say i never knew it before, but knew of it. To live it, to walk in it, to breathe and be grateful for breathing and for the goodness of God and all He does is something that has let my spirit soar and rise and come alive. I had lived most of my life in dark depths of darkness and despair and had to grow up in the deep i thought that was life and i didnt understand why so many other people seemed to be so different. I didnt know how much more there was and is to life and now im constantly realizing more and more and John definitely in some way helped me to heal or develop parts of my sight, i cant help but think that if i was blind, he was one of the few people that helped me to get up and truly seek , and eventually receive, the healing and grace that made me able to see. I will shake John's hand one day. I dont think anyone besides God understands what a vital thing John has done , at least for me in my life. He has been a blessing. And is blessed to be that. What a great example of a human being. Anyway, i feel myself becoming emotional so I am going to stop typing now. Just know i truly am grateful for this today. 🙏 ❤

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

thanks for this encouraging comment 🙏

[@matthewparlato5626]

This moved me to tears.

[@sarrok85]

This foundation will withstand the fire. Keep building Paul.

[@zappzapp00]

Wonderful dialogue. Thank you all dearly.

[@mcnallyaar]

"The relationship of the Dia Logos is more important to me than any particular proposition."

[@SEVNTIGERS]

Terrific discussion! thanks to everyone that participated and uploading it :)

[@SeekersofUnity]

Wonderful.

[@williamjmccartan8879]

Paul A. Thank you for hosting this discussion and exploration, Paul V. The Socrates complement was generous, John your multiple ways of approaching ideas is deserving of the accolade.

[@ChadTheGirlDad]

This is quite good. Thank you.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

thanks for watching!

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

Peterson and Verveake brought me toward Christianity in the way described in this video. However, In Verveake words it hasn’t become “viable” for me. For what it’s worth I’ve deeply internalized the teachings of Christ, and I believe him to be an incarnation of God, but I grew up without religion in my family or social/schooling environment. This lack of exposure shows up in how much I believe in the absoluteness of the Christian Faith over other belief systems. I see a lot of conversions coming out of these mens work, but it hasn’t happened for me. Some reasons I’ll mention for why I think this is. (Keep in mind I don’t find these characteristics in all Christianity) 1. The exclusivity aspect. 2.The casting of everything outside the scope of a certain denomination as “evil.” 3. The emphasis on belief (I can’t force myself to believe something). 4. The rationalizations on the part of believers of their descriptions of God. I can’t help feeling that a being that creates an entire universe doesnt meet the description given by Christians. A being that requires you believe in him, feels jealously, and faults such flawed beings for their inherent fallibility. Especially beings like myself who are so thoroughly enmeshed in modernist evolutionary thinking. How can I force myself to believe something when I can’t unhook the deep hooks of naturalistic thinking? The variation of different types of life make the human centric story unbelievable. It seems like peoples description makes all animals and distant stars irrelevant to the story of life. As if the 1000s of different species of lizards are permanently left on the periphery. If we are the essence of the show, why is lizard number 975 necessary? My point in all this? People make it seem so easy to believe, as if it’s choosing whether I want beef or chicken. It doesn’t seem that easy. I’m open to being wrong, I’m actively (and desperately) trying to undermine my current world view. I know full well the flaws in purely naturalistic thinking. I do believe there is a God, and this God has a vision for what human life should aspire to be. I believe that this aspiration should look like the life of Christ. I don’t feel like I get any arguments from Christians that reconciles the incongruity between “what people say God does” and “what God is like.” All I get back is gymnastics. Believers bend over backwards trying to justify their perspective of God. They dismiss everything I say by condemning my observations as heretical. They give me their set speech without addressing the substance of my objection. I’d appreciate any help advancing this enquiry. I know there is probably some obvious flaw that can be pointed out in my thinking.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

thanks for sharing some of your story and these excellent questions. Several of these, such as questions about religious pluralism & exclusivity, I have dedicated lecture episodes to on the audio-only podcast that may be of some help to you as your wrestle with these important topics.

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner thank you for your response. I’ll try to find them. It’s hard to not be cynical and consider the arguments put forward as, players in a game of “defend the fort”. I want to thank you for all your work. It is greatly appreciated.

[@andrewx3y8c]

This is a great comment. I resonate with a lot of where you’re at and feel the same to some degree. I’m still in a Christian bubble but feel extremely alienated as someone who veers towards naturalistic thinking (how can we not with the precise way science shows us how the natural world behaves 99.99% of the time). Nevertheless I am likewise aware of the errors of naturalistic thinking having presuppositions that wouldn’t allow for anything outside of that. In any case, I believe in God as he’s been discussed here, but so many people I know still have the superbeing conception of God. I don’t know what the implications are for a majority in Christianity to have adhered to one way of thinking about God for a couple centuries or more at this point and we’re now reevaluating our conception to try and move in another direction. How much of the system everyone is familiar with is undermined by this update? And I’m not saying I don’t love everything I’m hearing!

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Ain't the thing that makes this kind of dialogue possible that all participants are guided by the allure of beauty (to deploy a very David Bentley Hart insight)? It's the transcendental that is self-justifying and so most ontologically/metaphorically/theologically capacious.

[@davidjohnzenocollins]

I've seen it all: an Englishman using "ain't".

[@TheGloves13]

So good and so so Timely for me personally. Thank you gentlemen.

[@celesteschacht8996]

I love all of you! When John uses his body language it gets to me in a great way and Love John V when he laughs!!!

[@mills8102]

Outstanding talk. A most fundamentally important question today.

[@taratasarar]

Thanks a lot!

[@karolinasz.141]

Beautiful conversation :)

[@thevulgarhegelian4676]

Well there goes my day❤

[@JaxBespoked]

Keeping up with one Paul was hard enough.🤣🤣

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

Insert "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!" Prequel Meme :)

[@thevulgarhegelian4676]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner talk about existential angst. I watch on your channel then it came up on PVK. 😲

[@shari6063]

Thank you for this. I enjoyed this very much.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@fatherbigmac]

02:03:32 Vatican II's teaching on salvation outside the Church is very nuanced, and cannot be explained without some careful sifting and some background.

[@thephilosophicalagnostic2177]

Wisdom is achieved when you realize deep conflicts will arise between people. This is part of human nature. It's a condition to be faced, not a problem to be solved.

[@evanblackie7510]

Thanks so much, very fruitful discussion.

[@TheMeaningCode]

2:08:10 and following... Good book about this is Eternity in Their Hearts by Don Richardson. God's truth has been seen by all peoples throughout all human history.

[@jennysteves]

Beautiful and reassuring conversation. Honest and vulnerable. Thank you! This gives me hope that our species, as civilization unravels, could still reach a place where the deeper meanings behind ‘universal Christ’ and ‘second coming’ completely drop their religious trappings and baggage and instead take on the meaning of ‘fully human’. Spiritual or secular will become beside the point. I long for us to also finally - or again - see the sacred, or the ‘fully itself’, in all of nature and matter. In the wind and soil and stars. It’s all the inbreath and outbreath, the dance, of Love - of all the ‘Ls’; the Ground of Being. This is my current interpretation of what Jesus (Christ) meant.

[@kbsouth]

“Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:37-39‬ ‭

[@kbsouth]

Christ restores this relationship!

[@shari6063]

This idea of incarnation is so very important. We are the body. We are a body. We have a body. Creation is a body. There is a delicate empiricism that makes itself utterly identical with the object, thereby becoming true theory. But this enhancement of our mental powers belongs to a highly evolved age. -Goethe

[@elektrotehnik94]

"This idea of incarnation is so very important. We are the body. We are a body. We have a body. Creation is a body." --> yes

[@betauser6233]

Haha love when he said Socrates was Socrates before he was Socrates.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

I was so slow to catch what he meant by that 😂

[@elektrotehnik94]

I suspect it means: Don't judge yourself as "not being Socrates" yet, you don't know where life will take you?

[@eddiedontess8585]

These guys make me wish I was more smarter 🙃

[@katmiau616]

Using "more" was unnecessary.

[@eddiedontess8585]

@@katmiau616 sorry to offend. Just joking

[@Orthodoxi]

@@eddiedontess8585 seemed pretty funny smart to me. 🤓

[@eddiedontess8585]

@@Orthodoxi thank you! 🙏😊

[@fatherbigmac]

00:04:07 YES! Aquinas is a neo-platonist. I've been thinking that for years, Dionysius and Augustine were his heros.

[@poordoubloon10]

Where do we get this idea that he was the Christian-Aristotelian par excellence?

[@fatherbigmac]

@@poordoubloon10 Because he successfully integrated Aristotle into his theological project. This controversial at the time; the Archbishop of Paris thought that adopting Aristotle would lead to heresy. He also defended his project against the Latin Averoists, who were trying to introduce a universal active intellect and a "double truth" theory. Aquinas had no patience for that.

[@falcondark5338]

2:07:42 What is this good news, if it's not about access to God?

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

The Good News is that Jesus is Lord. Union with God thru the God-Man, Jesus Christ. Forgiveness of sins. Healing for our sin-sickness. Every valley will be exalted. The meek will inherit the world. There’s a lot to this Good News. Access to God is via Christ, but professing Christians are not the only one’s to have access to Christ. In fact, even some professing Christians might be missing Christ entirely. I can’t lay out my entire argument here, but if you’re interested check out a series I did on my audio podcast entitled “In Christ Alone?”

[@Orthodoxi]

@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner how do we find the podcast?

[@falcondark5338]

@@Orthodoxi video description

[@EtherealMaryJane]

Very interesting.

[@fatherbigmac]

Vervaeke stands in relation to Christianity as Aristotle did to the Christian west in the early 13th century.

[@Jeangiroux90]

Hey Paul, thanks for this beautiful conversation. I suppose one lingering question I had that didn’t seem to get resolved relates to the source of the Logos. JV seems to hold a position that the transcendentals, the Logos are self-existent or do not require or cannot invoke any further explanation (at least that was my interpretation of what he was saying) and yet you seemed to be prying for the acknowledgment of a deeper and unifying principle-the chief conductor-and yet John seemed reluctant to acknowledge such a thing. Do I have that right? Warm wishes.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

Great question. I don't want to answer on John's behalf, but hopefully if we ever get another follow up conversation that he might be able to address your question.

[@forthegloryofthelord]

Still waiting for the follow up

[@jjjccc728]

My problem with this topic and this discussion is that it resembles imagining a territory and then imagining a map for the territory. I like the idea of demonstrating the territory exists and then making a map of that territory. I appreciate the earnestness with which these guys talk. I did like the assertion that God doesn't deal in abstractions, unlike these guys. 😄

[@mcnallyaar]

I'm a big fan of Marilynne Robinson's essays, too.

[@chdao]

@Paul Vanderklay Any particular book by Carl Barth that you would recommend?

[@willgiorno1740]

I wonder if there is a further question to ask beyond John,s 'Can the body of Christ include the Buddha, Daoists, non theists etc?'...perhaps many Christians answer yes to 'Can the body of All Love include the Buddha, Daoists, monotheists, ANDJesus etc.?' There are so many Christianities. Thankyou for this discussion

[@verntweld51]

Looks like it’s time to revisit Narnia and finish the last 2 books I think I ended with the Magicians Nephew Thanks for opening the back of the wardrobe

[@bruceclark2277]

Great discussion. I'm only half way through so apologies if this has been raised and dealt with but .... ... Some research into Process Theology and how they have been able to merge with other traditions without "subsuming" them might be a way forward - it would mean a re-evaluation on how we define God and words such as "omnipotence" as well as eschatological considerations. It seems to me that while we entertain the big Alpha male god in the sky or as Rabbi Artson describes as the "Big Bully" god and which Charles Hartshorne covers with the term "classical theism" as compared with his "neo-classical theism", we will have great difficulty in reconciling any other worldview. "Follow the Lamb" could just mean submit to the big guy (who happens to be our big guy!) and all will be OK.

[@emmashalliker6862]

All the talk of the ocean of being etc is do etc what John said Spinoza did. Its not remining in abstract thoughts about the ocean of being but direct intimate participation with God. This is expressed quite clearly by the like of David Bentley Hart et el.

[@mmccrownus2406]

PVSs description of a worldwide uniting with God will take a much higher teaching than Christianity. It’s just not enough

[@OscarWrightZenTANGO]

Volume too low

[@Orthodoxi]

No matter where I go and listen, I notice one striking thing being played out, a loss of contact with God. No one seems to be embodying and sharing that at this point. That is the only point where the goal gains actual active living expression. I remain quite curious about this. Talking about God is not the same thing as talking with God. 'Where two or more of you gather in my name, there I will be also.' "In" my name. Not about my name. Anyways I remain hopeful that the point of all talking is to regain that eventual state of union. I wonder though if John et al can ever entertain in absolute sincerity that God is real and realized in this way? It's so profoundly simple in reality that the intellect seems to miss it as it searches for some complex complicated answer. Funny really. God gets the last laugh. Unless you become as a child...

[@youssefsammouh501]

Sounds like an Orthodox!

[@aqualityexistence4842]

1:20 Crystal Blue Persuasion

[@larrypullum9410]

Paul - (and Vervaeke, too, of course, lol, with his rightful admiration of Socrates): Socrates compares the dog to a philosopher in the Republic, book 2, by virtue of a dog’s judgment of friend or enemy by its knowing or not knowing the person respectively - while he also compares young men of the nobility as akin, in their usual perceptions of right and wrong, to such a given domestication of canines.

[@ALLHEART_]

1:50:21

[@larrypullum9410]

It seems to me that Jesus gives the best definition of God: that being that He is a Spirit. As a Spirit, He is, of course, the Spirit preeminently of Life; and whereby Death, as the ceasing or absence of Life, manifests itself by the loss of Spirit and animation and volition to such a given and previously living thing or biology. And this, of course, leads to the conscious grasp in living things, relative to their intelligence, of a Spirit of judgment; of pleasure and pain as necessarily guiding our actions, again, relative to our intelligence. These things constitute the metaphysical aspect of God, as God is a stated concept - (or scripturally, a “vision of all”) - ultimately relating to all men, by virtue of its clearly linguistic expression to be found in humankind alone, and thereby, in every such expression, somehow morally binding all men. Herein, of course, God then becomes existential, because one must then also take up a cross in declaring God - (be ye Holy as I am Holy) - simply as a vision of all, truth, or whole law, directly and principally bridling all in all public life and voice in every place, of itself; and in a then constellated assembly of all such places altogether in each given time and culture - (indeed, these become the actually egalitarian bases of hierarchy as a sort of marriage in each generation and place of a people to its given leadership, as with a kingdom to its king, but as these also unite male and female culturally no less than politically from low to high). Jesus, therefore, came to bear witness unto the truth, precisely as that very moral answerability of all men linguistically unique to our species since our very dawn therein, in whose beginning alone, was, and still is the Word of such an answerability of all, and even status and mortality identified upon each, through the very necessary adoption by each, from childhood up, of a given language or native tongue. People fail to see - (because of its universal and defining banality, I think, in our species, like a fish in water) - the actual divinity, and even at once ideational or mental and sociological miracle of language itself, as being a clearly demonstrable and ritually instituted or agreed specificity established upon all things by the accepted substantiation of all words; and whereby all human mental life is equally and always social at the same time, as an ideal world in all altogether, nonetheless paralleling the objective or substantive and palpable material world we are thereby directly and demonstrably active in, and often effectively manipulate. God, therefore, spoke creation into existence, as a necessary patriarch originally in every society of itself, beginning with the mastery of fire as the creation of light, forming a clearly visible, as well as at once sacrificial and salvific center, and even heaven and earth axis in every human society since; just as every loving parent demonstrably speaks creation into existence with their child, and the clear pronunciation of words in association with the substantive things being named, and which the child itself hopefully sees mentally, and confirms in understanding by the attempt at a similar utterance. To Vervaeke’s question of the great religions being integrated without any subsuming the other, it comes to the understanding that such religions are all organically formed upon the same metaphysic - (the Buddha’s cross legged sitting nationally, is equally Christ’s certain regional cross, for example, and Krishna and Arjuna on the battlefield of Kuruksetra in the Gita, is Christ and John in Revelation). We, therefore, as seemingly, biologically and even legally or psychologically isolated individuals, or citizens, are then but the atomic or nuclear and thereby elemental level biologically and culturally of families in history and religion, which only become human and living, or subjects more millennially in vision and judgment - (or in the Kingdom of God, and whereby in God, we live and move and have our being) - with the sociologically cellular bases - (especially in the blood and body of Christ himself then connected to a breaking of bread between Church and Society or Jew and Gentile together, just as the wine ties in mortally in faith in the historical Spirit of God’s judgment, to the existential stand or potentially shed blood of each necessarily in a given place and generation) - of what were then, and always are once and again, but wholly gathered culturally communistic communities like those of Acts 2 and 1st century Christianity. This is most especially so, of course, as these then became the prophetically apostolic or seminal bases in ethnographic spread world regionally, creating the body of priests and kings in such wholly gathered communities; and in a geo-political assembly, and even clothing of the body politic as a whole, by succeeding levels proceeding from low to high. Christianity is, as a given religious and historic institution, already morally fallen to the certain class institution of private property, from such originally wholly gathered culturally communistic communities. This has happened in a long historical process beginning with the Original Sin of the Cluny reforms at the turn of the 1st into the 2nd millennium, as these reforms - through the abolition of the previous lay investiture of the priesthood and then Roman election of the Pope in a consent of kings - ripped away from low to high, the once moral public forum of the Church, from the then given kingdoms and peoples at large - and led to the Crusades in consequence as an imperial expansion in the name of God forming Cain in such a then agricultural aristocracy, as well as the schisms between Eastern and Western Churches, and between Church and State in the West. In concerns of the genealogical no less than given institutional and world regional tree of knowledge of good and evil, therefore, the Church became - in its own definition - the good, and the Society at large, evil. Though Christ, as said, had made the two one, through those once and originally wholly gathered communities, breaking bread between, and upon, Church and Society together, in that previous creation of the Church anew, and in truth once again. Again, for Vervaeke, the Greek Thermopylae and Plato’s Republic find their basis anew in the Alamo and the once Republic of Texas today, as these form the land of Zebulun as one of the Hebrew tribes; as well as the star in the East, as a today Lone Star State, which the wise men - (as such previous Old World bases of Christianity today, and its certain historic transcendence to the New creating Christ in the epical basis of newly Universal Civilizations like the US now, no less than like Rome and others before) - see until it comes and stands politically in such a certain new national nativity, over where the young child was, as he that was to be born King of the Jews in prophecy of the future kingdoms to come in such a New World of itself, when those Democratic and then always certain universal civilizations otherwise, eventually collapse into a Dark Age - (and as Rome and such other civilizations before did, of course, while such communities inherit the new civilization to come; and so that we are Christian in the West today, in narrative images captured upon his certain historical and cultural return precisely thereby. Indeed, as one last comment, Old Testament and New are essentially based upon the certain historic transcendence time and again implied anew by every Old World to New World migration, colonization, and overall wilderness to modern domestication or newly urban advance of another newly universal civilization, as said, like the US today, and like Rome and others before - (indeed, the six days of labor of Genesis 1, can be elaborated upon the previous five centuries, and now sixth century since Columbus). Such epical and historically remarkable axes of each New World advance form cycles or circuits of history in between each such Old World and New - (hence, Ezekiel’s vision of “one wheel upon the earth”, or the “four and twenty elders” of Revelation 4, as figuratively symbolic of twenty four century cycles of history to each day of the Lord, morally valorized upon all such newly universal civilizations, then forming the four and twenty seats nationally in the judgment drawing scripture in relation to just such given historic events having come anew, each time, once again) - which become the always certain historical alternation and given world regional succession otherwise of Monarchy and Democracy established in relation to the Lord, coming, of himself, at such finally universal heights, and in his own given generation, and showing just such a given scriptural and historical correspondence anew, and in judgment, on each such occasion, as said, as these then indicate the true apostles, at such times, in contrast to the actual “lie” otherwise of the otherworldly deity popularly and vainly fancied by many.

[@karimchaya2432]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@OscarWrightZenTANGO]

Volume too y

[@elel2608]

2:10:00

[@billwilkie6211]

Christ as Logos never mentioned?

[@ernestboehm1584]

duke ellington wynton marsalis conduct

[@MrFetusPretzel]

Certainly doesn't mean Dr Manhattan !

[@RichardDownsmusic]

...it is the breath...behind the breath' Ibin Arabi........"the Father is greater than I...Jesus"' "Transparent to the transcendent "Joseph campbell... The LOGOS behind the symbol!

[@markweswhit869]

God The Father - The Burning Bush - Procedural. God The Son - The Person - Proposition God The Spirit - The Dove - Perspective Us - The Vessel - Participation

[@AugustasKunc]

25?-45

[@emmashalliker6862]

There were parts of this that are painful to listen too.. Just seems to be rambling.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

"Theon" in Greek. It's a category word. It's not a name. "Allah" in Arabic. NT (and Septuagint OT) authors wrote Greek. Never imagine Scripture translates easily into American TV English. Look up the Greek words. Look up how Plato and Aristotle used the Greek words.

[@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner]

Yes. “God” is not a name.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

​@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner God is *deliberation.* Not "debate." The phrase "God's Plan" means GOD IS PLANNING. We over talk it and underdo it. But it's already written down in Greek in books that few bother reading. Examine these quotes. a) "Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” - Matthew 18:19-20. And b) "In the beginning (En Arche) was the Logos (Conversation), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God." - John 1:1. And c) "Be doers of the word, not just hearers only deceiving yourselves." - James. Is this obvious yet?

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

​@@DeepTalks-PaulAnleitner Regarding Hart's quote, the Kosmos (of the Septuagint Greek translation of Genesis) is the Order of Things, not "everything." Kosmos goes with Cosmetics, an orderly rearranging of things. God is also an (the) Exemplar. Thus, the Sabbath copies God's wresting on the 7th day. We mimic Exemplars. We (re)arrange things like God arranged the Kosmos. The Order(s) of Things is Pattern, or pater, father. Matter is matter, mother. Thus Eve (matter) is made of Adam's rib (skeletal pattern). Advancing to the New Testament, we find that God is farmers. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and we eat his flesh and blood. The grounding Order of Things are the rows of farmed fields. Soteria (Salvation) is better translated as Preservation. We save seeds for the next planting season. That's origins of banks and walled city states. Returning to the OT, Cane was a farmer who committed fratricide against Abel the herdsman. Are we missing anything?

[@jenna2431]

Why can't Christians use their deity's actual names? Psalm 68 gives you "god's" name. And "Jesus" wasn't the name of the other one until the 17th century. Why? Anti-Semitism. "God" is a title. And there IS no letter or sound "J" in Hebrew. This is just a part of the disingenuousness that Christianity IS shot through with. Four gospels that are pseudonymic - but that's okay by you. Scarcely 36 hours between Friday afternoon and Sunday dawn, but that's 3 days. Four absolutely irreconcilable accounts of what is arguably THE pivotal event - the resurrection. Half of Paul's letters - not from Paul. And on and on it goes.

[@davidjohnzenocollins]

Thank you, Jenna. You set fire to that strawman Christianity that had the rest of us cowering in fear.