What Does the Prime Directive Prevent?

[@QuarkGamingLLC]

The Prime directive prevents episodes from ending after 10 minutes

[@TheWhovinerd-1963]

True tbf lol 😂.

[@nathanb1509]

"Oh wow, a prewarp world. Well anyway prime directive, we'll be on our way."

[@DarthDesolous]

Well, I have to admit there is some logic to that in the writers room. Just being honest in my opinion.

[@this.is.a.username]

@@nathanb1509 still explorers, gotta explore

[@TalesOfGothic]

Yeah but if you like his content then let him make his money or just use an Adblock. If you are so lazy that you can’t even use Adblock then you have no right to complain.

[@DinoJake]

Fun Fact: The reason the Prime Directive is a thing in Star Trek is because Gene Roddenberry was very critical of the Vietnam War. The brutality of the war led him to believe that no good could ever come from interfering in the affairs of another nation, especially less developed ones, and that a more enlightened society would generally leave other civilizations alone.

[@spartanonxy]

Which is absurd even as a premise. We have literal GENOCIDE in our world heck there is more then one ongoing right this second. According to Roddenberry's mindset allowing genocide to occur just because is allowable as long as it is done by ones own state. That is not even getting into the fact that it assumes all races will follow the same path of progress. God forbid the Federation meet a race with everything they have being 2 centuries ahead of the Federation but never bothered to develop a warp drive thanks to abundance in their system. I mean I get where the mindset comes from but it is a utopian one that has little connection to our imperfect world.

[@justarandomcommenter570]

@@spartanonxy Interesting insights, but also a few, rather lengthy counter-points to bring up: 1. Lets get it out of the way that Star Trek is idealistic and that its whole point is to present a utopian vision, not necessarily a realistic one. Its nice to dream though. 2. If the Federation encounters a species with the same-tech level or better, then i'd assume the Prime Directive wouldnt be really applied even if they havent invented warp-travel because they are already near-equals or equals. Also, I do think Star Trek does show that species grow and develop in their own ways, though I agree it is a bit weird that they all develop the exact same tech. Then again, a lot of species in Star Trek are somehow all humanoids so it makes sense that they are similar....sooo ig don't dwell on all this too much? :P 3. Its ultimately a question of proximity. We care about issues such as genocides happening in our world because we are ALL the same species, sharing the SAME planet. Ofc we *have* to care. However, would we still care though about such issues if they were happening on another planet? on another star-system? to an alien species? 4. _According to Roddenberry's mindset allowing genocide to occur just because is allowable as long as it is done by ones own state..._ is it really so absurd? Are we not doing it even now? Many wars and conflicts are happening in the Middle East, Africa and many corners of the world today, yet we dont do much because "its their country" and 'their problems' to take care of. Most turn a blind eye to oppressions and attacks on minority populations by the state across many countries simply because it doesn't concern us or we dont care. Sure such things are condemned internationally but is much ever really being done to change it? Aren't we still allowing it to happen because we say its the purview of someone else and not our own?

[@spartanonxy]

@@justarandomcommenter570 So lets go with breaking them down. 1) yeah this one is fair but I myself prefer the more grounded versions of the show rather then TNG. 2) That is just it they treat the Prime directive as RELIGION as commands from on high with barely any exceptions. Because they specifically use warp travel to distinguish if a race is ready. And the vast majority of exceptions were made in borderline crisis situations. Overall I really do think the Federation if they found a species using a form of faster then light that is not warp by any definition would declare them to primitive to contact even if the form was better in every metric. Mind you I am talking TNG Federation there who are lets say ungrounded. 3) more or less fair there though I imagine in a time where said world might literally be a few days travel away would have a serious effect on what we consider proximity. We likely would care but it is questionable if enough. 4) This one is also fair.

[@Jiub_SN]

@@spartanonxyI think the opposite of this view that you seem to be hard lining is just as bad as you make this view seem, but it really isn't. Name one time the USA getting into another nations business has been helpful aside from WW2 (which, mind you, nobody was aware of the extent of the holocaust or the Chinese atrocities or even that genocide was happening until post war)

[@spartanonxy]

@@Jiub_SN That is just it I don't advocate for the opposite. I am pointing out their system is honestly bad. In many ways it is worse then the systems we are dealing with today. I just simply think that there needs to be a rational discussion and that situations need to be judged less dogmatically. I am not for intervention in every case. Also Gulf War 1. Kuwait was invaded by Iraq. A series of finite goals were set and the war ended rapidly and saw the Kuwait nation have self governance restored. The cases where everything went wrong are more because constant mission creep and a attempt to make war "clean".

[@igncom1]

I know the Hur'q invasion of Qronos probably took place during the Klingon medieval age or something, but I do like to imagine an 'Independence Day' style conflict as Klingon jetfighters duel'd with Hur'q spacecraft that tried to operate in the atmosphere. That or I just would love to see a Klingon F-35.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

Given that Qo'nos as a planet was already unified into a single planetary government by the time of the Hur'q invasion, debatably Qo'nos was already in its early industrial period. So less "Independence Day" and more "War of the Worlds." Now just imagining Steampunk Klingons.

[@Ryan_Thompson]

Right?! With some old pilot with a Blood wine problem screaming, "Hello petaQ, I have returned!" We need to get this in front of Roland Emmerich.

[@igncom1]

@@occultatumquaestio5226 Now I want to see a steampunk klingon battleship shooting at aliens in the sky!

[@CaptainSeato]

Klingon engineering may be bad, but not "F-35" terrible.

[@igncom1]

@@CaptainSeato I knew someone would get salty over the F-35!

[@joshuawells835]

The best example of Klingon interference on pre-warp worlds was in the TOS episode "A Private Little War," in which on the planet Neural, the Klingons provided a village with flintlock muskets and set them on the Hill People.

[@tomhenry897]

And Kirk gave the hill people guns Start of a long war

[@darkclawgreatonenas]

@@tomhenry897 Serpents...Serpents for the Garden of Eden...the only way Kirk had of restoring balance between the two peoples. probably didnt work, but still...

[@bc64100]

simple i would have given the hill people tactical nukes

[@christopherg2347]

Something worth point out was that the prime directive can be suspended/has limitations: - when they received a call for help (Pen Pals. Every single time they responded to a distress call) - when a secret operation is sanctioned by the Federation Council or even just undertaken by a official secret agency of the Federation. - stuff like the Omega directive 9:40 No mention of "Who Watches The Watchers"? Picard was willing to die to undo accidental interference.

[@Bruced82]

It also only applies to Starfleet itself, not to every Federation citizen. Lwaxana Troi pointed this out correctly to Picard once, when she interfered with Timicin and his people's forced euthanasia at 60.

[@christopherg2347]

@@Bruced82 There was a Season 1 Episode, "Angel One" where Data pointed out: "Not only were they not beholden to the prime directive, removing them now would be a violation of it."

[@FirstNameLastName-okayyoutube]

The Prime Directive is proven junk. They do an episode convining otherwise and ill personally stand on street corners petitioning they get all the emmies or whatever. The reality is the prime directive makes sense in a fever dream version of critical thinking. It ignores facts of concequences, it abandons the few reasons wortg considering as soon as it is not longer applied to post warp civilizations... It is a harsh responce to arbitrary conditions due to vague philosophical concepts. It adds evidence some higher being is projecting a form of functional retardation.

[@xenn4985]

@@christopherg2347 yeah, seems like its a lot more well thought out and works a lot more often than people give it credit for. Seems like people only remember when it fails

[@neodigremo]

In Drumhead Picard mentions that he has violated the Prime Directive 9 times in his career (presumably including the Pen Pals incident) and has been cleared of wrongdoing. Makes it seem clear that the PD does have exceptions that can be applied on a case by case basis.

[@THATGuy5654]

They should have featured more examples of benevolently intended interference going wrong an early Trek. Like, a founding species of the Federation that did as much damage as the Klingons or the romulans while just trying to do good.

[@seand.g423]

So... Vulcan on Andor?

[@PreceptorGrant]

There's an episode of The Orville where they have a guest from a pre-warp world who keeps trying to take Union tech back home. The Union officers give just such an example of well intentioned interference having horrific results.

[@johaquila]

@@PreceptorGrant Just one example of The Orville being the better Star Trek.

[@braydoxastora5584]

They reasons they gave were poor tho. Since the reason they gave was that the technology would be hoarded despite them beyond resource limitations and thus could just flood the market with technology to prevent any monopoly

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

The Vulcan relationship with Earth seems like a case of this in Enterprise.

[@DrFranklynAnderson]

I’d love to see a nerdy philosophical debate between Starfleet’s Prime Directive of non-interference and Spider-Man’s “with great power comes great responsibility.”

[@stardolphin2]

Technically that's "...there must also come great responsibility," but yes.

[@Raja1938]

Spidey is native to, and lives within, the environment in which he operates. Prime Directive doesn't apply. If he traveled to an alien world and taught them how to make web fluid, then that's another matter.

[@PreceptorGrant]

That's actually an interesting philosophical point. It could probably be argued that knowing when not to interfere is precisely an example of exercising responsibility, the two positions are not fundamentally incompatible.

[@Optimistprime.]

Exactly. The responsibility not to mess up other cultures.

[@GeekFilter]

There was also Kukulkan from TAS. Kukulan was the last of an ancient serpent species who visited Earth's distant past & was instrumental in the technological and architectural advances of the Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec and South Asian civilizations. He was identified with the lore of Quetzalcoatl, as well as the legend of the Chinese dragon. Today this feel very "Ancient Aliens" problematic implications and all, though it was written by a Native American.

[@Valavaern]

Yeah, if the Greek Gods can be ancient aliens, then other cultures getting a boost too isn't as problematic.

[@AzraelThanatos]

The Q known as Quinn and the Sky Spirits are things there

[@seand.g423]

​@@Valavaernit's not _really_ the "Ancient Aliens" vibe, it's too much of the staff not liking the implication that their inculcated Mediterranean (Ergot-munching, Lead-sipping) """paragons""" facing/needing the same, and same _sort of,_ interference as the tribes that were later fucked over on a buffet-choice of those supposed "ideals", so they just hide behind "becuz Ancient Aliens problematic, nvm who wrote it unless having them as writer make us look gud"...

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yeah, ancient aliens is mostly problematic when written by outsiders because they underestimate the people they’re discussing. Internal legends and storytelling is kind of a different thing, despite surface similarities in core ideas. Like the writer of that episode said: if Roman gods get to be made real in the setting, why not also mine? Or something to that effect. Meanwhile, some modern Americans are doubting that real people built… early-1800s tunnels in Europe. Must be aliens. They just didn’t have the technology in 1810. (Even though clearly they did, because they exist.) And that’s a really good example, for western readers, of how it’s the angle and implicated insult which really matters.

[@Jiub_SN]

Ancient aliens being problematic is goofy, yeah obviously ancient humans were as smart as we are, but they were far less wise. Saying that ancient aliens gave them tech isn't anymore problematic than saying books give children knowledge. Even though I think ancient aliens as a concept is also goofy af, I think discounting it because you don't truly understand the implications and think it's problematic is, well, problematic

[@davidjordan697]

Apparently the very enlightened federation was never able to fine a happy medium between stopping planet wide apocalypses and subjecting people to brutal colonialism, despite being a post scarcity civilisation.

[@FarseerOfCearath]

~ Looks at the Spanish conquistadors and Doctors Without Borders ~ "Same thing, pretty much." - The UFP.

[@this.is.a.username]

@@FarseerOfCearath doctors w/o borders are not invading cultures that had no idea of the existence of the rest of the world. they would never go to the Sentinelese or random amazon tribes just because, even if they were hit by a plague.

[@completelyferrouschemist6776]

Post scarcity doesn't mean post human nature.

[@DeaconBlues117]

Oh, it wasn't just that - they wanted to make sure that independent civilizations could develop without having to confront the fact that they're surrounded by more-advanced aliens. Once you invent warp drive, the Directive doesn't (or shouldn't) apply, because you should _expect_ to find aliens at that point.

[@GMorgan84]

There are two aspects to the Prime Directive. The first is non-interference. The second is if we are morally on the hook for every dying civilisation then all we will do is save dying civilisations.

[@baskkev7459]

For me it's not set in stone. But it's more about leaders thinking about the actions

[@SuperGamefreak18]

That's my thoughts as well. The idea of the prime directive is to get the captains that visit these places to take CAREFUL steps and to not develop godhood or similar mindsets. My thought overall is the prime directive is a LONG list of rules and regulations that were the results of past experiments. The issues were when people started treating the directive like religion or really only caring about the cliffnotes about the directive. I also annoyed when people MISS that point about the prime directive.

[@katakisLives]

And so I say to any creature who may be listening: There can be no justice, so long as laws are absolute. Life itself is an exercise in exceptions.- Picard.

[@KiltedCritic]

The Prime Directive prevents whatever the writers of that particular episode decide. TOS had the balance right, with Kirk technically breaking it when common sense demanded it, like with the Organians (before knowing their true nature) and the Yonada asteriod as two examples. Spock even regards those decisions ultimately, as "logical". From TNG onwards in the vast majority of instances, it was applied like dogmatic nonsense, always based on the flawed argument of "you can't know the consequences" if you do decide to break it.

[@Hartzilla2007]

"The Prime Directive prevents whatever the writers of that particular episode decide." Usually just so Kirk and co. couldn't just solve the episode problem in like 5 seconds.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

If that was used AS the angle, that would be great, but yeah....like you said TOS had to right

[@kertagin1]

taking it as in universe it prevents things like the scramble for Africa, the colonial empires, the wide spread famines that resulted in the application of European health care to peoples who had 15 kids but produced food for only 3 (the advances that prevented child mortality, with out changing the culture to accommodate the fact the kids lived past birth). giving knowledge to those not ready for it has proven to be generally destructive. the north American natives are facing cultural extinctions because the traditions of their culture no longer function as needed in the modern world. it gets worse the wider the disparity of cultures. sure it isn't a perfect ideal, but the levels of harm it prevents even limiting the question to real world scenarios is a vastly more moral outcome..... which therein lies its failure civilization does not function on morality

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@kertagin1 which was ALWAYS the point of the directive do captains take it to the extreme on occasion acourse but that’s not fully the directives fault

[@dupersuper1938]

Strange New Worlds (and Lower Decks somewhat as well) has thankfully corrected this insanity.

[@rubaiyat300]

I look at the Voyager episode Distant Origin for the answer of the rightness of the Prime Directive. If someone had helped the ancient Voth on Earth, humanity would never have evolved certainly not in the form they did, and they wouldn't have been able to uplift whatever species are working in Cetacean Ops. The universe would thus be emptier with just the Voth around. It can suck in the moment and the TNG episode Homeward just had a terrible premise in that letting the entire biosphere collapse serves no one, but the Prime Directive is there for a reason.

[@Optimistprime.]

Very, very well said.

[@kaitlyn__L]

That’s kind of a (de)ontological argument though, in that humanity’s existence is predicated as both good and necessary. It’s an understandable argument to make given we are humans, but there’s nothing inherently better or worse about us versus eg the neanderthals. (Which is the alternate history idea Phlox invokes in that Enterprise episode.)

[@rubaiyat300]

@@kaitlyn__L No, but that's partly the point. In saving the Voth you've almost certainly doomed humanity and more broadly possibly any other species that might have arisen in our place with the Voth still here or at least active for a longer period. Instead Earth was able to give rise to at least 2 space faring species (and possibly many more in the recent mammalian dominant era depending on how you interpret possible Cetacean Ops crew members). One can argue whether THAT is a good or necessary thing, but given the premise of Star Trek, and the Federation's adoption of the Vulcan edict of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations I think it is an internally consistent one.

[@Tenacitybrit]

Chuck Sonnenberg of SF debris has a great rant about the Prime directive at the end of his review of: The Masterpiece Society. Not only does he explain how its supposed to work, but he also chews out both the shows creators AND in show characters for screwing it up. Its so good to hear.

[@TheGuardianofAzarath]

That one episode of Voyager demonstrated perfectly what can happen to an alien civ that has any contact with a more advanced power before it's ready, it was that episode where they got trapped in orbit of a rapidly rotating planet, and the natives went from flitstones to First Contact in just a couple of days. While that would have been a perfect case of "The PD applies here" their situation meant they had no choice but to ignore it.

[@stardolphin2]

And then there's 'A Piece of the Action...'

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

@@stardolphin2Best episode of Star Trek ever!!!😂

[@edgarplummer6750]

The Prime Directive prevents Captains from being promoted to Admiral, but the Temporal Prime Directive (looking at you Janeway) gets you promoted to Admiral, especially if you violate it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheWhovinerd-1963]

Ohh goodness don’t talk to janeway about the temporal prime directive she absolutely hates it lol 😂

[@jacara1981]

@@TheWhovinerd-1963 As she says "best to ignore it"

[@the-wandering-knight9952]

Promoting her to a desk job was the quickest way to ensure she couldn't keep violating all those directives.

[@johnburns9634]

I’m wondering about the link between The laws of robotics, mainly the zeroth law, and the temporal prime directive.

[@stardolphin2]

@@the-wandering-knight9952 Now that you mention it, the same could be said of Kirk before V'Ger...

[@completelyferrouschemist6776]

It's kinda weird how the Bajorans were never brought up in this video. They're basically the most prime example to why the Prime Directive exists.

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

er no the cardassian government would disagree it's true that the federation went ham for the bajoran wormhole and surprise surprise terok nor/ds9 was readily available to be liberated and repurposed to be up to federation standard and in the joint custody of bajor and the federation after handing bajor back to the kai council so whatever remains of the prime directive's applicability was noped thanks to the cardassion union.

[@AzraelThanatos]

@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 The Bajorans were already capable of interstellar travel by the time before the Cardassians invaded them, with the solar sail ship that could reach Cardassia Prime But neither the Federation, nor the Cardassians, knew about the Wormhole, and the Celestial Temple was largely viewed as a Bajoran myth. Considering everything else, the Cardassians kind of found Bajor to be the Afghanistan to their USSR there, and they got everything they easily could and left the Bajorans to handle the wreckage...the Bajorans brought in the Federation and the wormhole was found which created a situation where the Union couldn't just come back and take it back over

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

@@AzraelThanatos precisely and because of that the prime directive is null and void because the bajorans made contact with another species.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195the directive still prevents interference in internal governments (this comes up multiple times in DS9 about meddling with Cardassia or Romulus).

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

@@kaitlyn__L the ufp don't interfere with member worlds's governments unless express threat to the federation's laws.

[@battlesheep2552]

I think it makes more sense to interpret the Prime Directive as "YOU should not interfere with primitive societies". I think we can all agree that interference has such profound consequences that it should not be left up to the discretion of individual captains. I can imagine the Federation has a panel of xenoanthropologists and ethicists for years deciding whether or not to aid a particular primitive society, based on whether such a thing would likely do more harm than good.

[@obilesk]

Another great vid, Ric! You got me thinking of how rich in plot-lines a show about the unknown planets and civilizations in the beta quadrant would be.

[@TheEvilpossum]

My thought on this has been that we didn't really need a "backstory" for the Prime Directive outside the Enterprise prequel series, which definitely did a bad job in the episode that was supposed to address it. There were always two obvious scenarios for Case 0. One was that an accident or an idealistic intervention gave Federation weapons or tech to an undeveloped species that ended up destroying themselves. The other, in some ways more plausible, was that a warlike primitive culture got warp drive and became a threat to other planets and/ or the Federation itself. Which, when you get down to it, is as good an explanation as any for the Klingons.

[@ChrissieBear]

Seeing STO footage is so surreal to me. Half the time it looks good, half the time it looks like Champions Online jank.

[@kebasor]

I always saw the Prime Directive as an outgrowth on the Federation as a science-philosophy culture, and that Starfleet existed for a long time as a scientific organization rather than a military one. Scientists observing nature will take pains to not interfere so they can get accurate data, even if that means the subjects die from circumstances the scientist is capable of saving them from. In this case, the Prime Directive, like most 'ultimate rules' has a dark side in that it allows Starfleet and the Federation an excuse for not saving civilizations and individuals they otherwise could have by citing non-interference. It's also why many Starfleet commanders of conscience knocked heads often with the more 'pure science' officers when they did interfere.

[@weylin6]

I think the Iconians had a good approach, making contact and sharing knowledge when they were deemed ready for it. Those more prone to war-like tendencies didn't receive much help as it was feared even medical or agricultural technology would be weaponized

[@Loneguy22]

There are a few episodes of the different Star Trek series which I believe would have definitely demonstrated the reasoning for the Prime Directive. In TOS there was a world on which a sociologist thought he could recreate the Third Reich without any of its depraved flaws. Needless to say the experiment didn't go accept to plan. In fairness same seeing was episode involving a world that had been heavily information by a 20th century crime novel, which was left behind by an Earth freightliner. Finally there's an episode of Voyager where they discovered a pair of Ferengi on a pre-warp world. The pair got stranded after going through a wormhole in an episode of TNG. They then used their tech to appear as prophesied deities and taught the inhabitants the Rules of Acquisition.

[@Bruced82]

Starfleet interferes simply by flying their fancy starships around, which have been occasionally picked up by pre-warp civs. First contact by Starfleet by soon to be warp-capable species, has also been disastrous on occasion. Whatever makes them sleep well at night, I guess.

[@marshallhuffer4713]

One issue with the Prime Directive is that by TNG, it has become like religious dogma and those such as Picard consider it sacrosanct.

[@xp7575]

True, he treats it like a directive, a prime one

[@dupersuper1938]

@@xp7575 To the point he and much of the bridge crew argue for sacrificing entire worlds to preventable natural disasters. There are TNG prime directive episodes that paint our "heroes" as flat out monsters. Give me the TOS/Strange New Worlds interpretation any day: if you see a pre warp planet about to be wiped out by an asteroid or some such you can obviously help. You do your best to help in secret, but you're not expected to offer empty platitudes while watching billions die on your viewscreen.

[@FarseerOfCearath]

Yeah, they kind of went from "colonialism is bad" to "any outside influence whatsoever is literally worse than extinction". That's uh... quite the leap. Not to mention the uncomfortable Social Darwinism-esque subtext (or just _text_ in the case of that one Enterprise episode) which always sort of lingers in the background. If a civilization can't survive without help, they're apparently not _supposed_ to... Are we _sure_ Starfleet are the good guys..?

[@this.is.a.username]

@@dupersuper1938 can you name those TNG episodes, i can't seem to remember any. Also, when in doubt, blame bad writers and not the characters.

[@AzraelThanatos]

Considering the episode of Enterprise where they hint at coming up with it, well, that's not as big of a thing there

[@knightspearhead5718]

Nice to see people finally doing videos on prime directive

[@mr51406]

Excellent video!🌟 I especially agree with you that it’s the Vulcans that gave the Federation its Prime directive. Usually for better, but sometimes for worse because it leads to standing by whilst a planet gets destroyed as we too often see in TNG, like in the episode “Homeward.” Or the various orders of idiotic admirals. See the Lorerunner for his indignant “ruminations” on that subject with which I agree.

[@rubaiyat300]

Homeward was just a clunky episode with a terrible setup. I don't judge the Federation or the Prime Directive based on it just like I don't judge Dr. Crusher for the events of Sub Rosa.

[@owenlong4176]

When writing work emails to multiple people and departments, I now begin them with "Hello All,". One coworker called me asking if I also watch your channel!

[@violetlight1548]

The Prime Directive is not perfect, and some Starfleet captains can be a little too dogmatic in its interpretation, but overall, I think it's a policy that does far more good than harm, especially when you take into account the fates of species in less idealistic areas of space. The Federation may only be able to silently protect species in its own space, but that makes a difference to *those* species at the very least. If you want to see what a sci fi galaxy looks like without something like the Prime Directive, look at Star Wars. Slavery and exploitation run rampant, and the Republic, even the "holier than thou" Jedi, don't care. I know which Galaxy I'd rather live in.

[@rubaiyat300]

Great call! I'd say Babylon 5 is even bigger. There, the most advanced species actively FORCE the lesser developed ones to fight interstellar wars that end in civilization ending destruction for their own ideological reasons. It's Pokemon on a cataclysmic level.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Say it with me folks…. Luke in TLJ was right!

[@wakcedout]

Short on time but Picard also had 2 issues to tackle the prime directive. One was warfs human brother trying to save a people whose planet was about to be destroyed, and the other when an observation team was in trouble and he was being venerated as a god.

[@talideon]

I kind of prefer a closer relation in canon to Stargate for the Greek gods than Star Trek gave us: _all_ the gods were interfering aliens, but not necessarily malicious, just... flawed. This is one of the reasons I really like Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

I remember a Voyager episode where an early 22nd century human probe try to give 20th-century-level humanoids the warp drive but they ended up using it as a weapon against each other.

[@Loneguy22]

Yes Friendship 1. However as I remember the episode the devastation which occurred on that world wasn't due to a war. According to accounts from the period some Antimatter technology was used primarily for energy generation. At some point someone tried to do something which caused them to lose control of the reactors. In essence, it was a large scale Chernobyl style disaster.

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

@@Loneguy22 Two centuries prior, Captain Archer drives that home when he told T'Pol that giving an early 21st century civilization the warp drive would be a terrible idea because they lack the know-how and the experience, antimatter is a dangerous thing.

[@leotoro51]

10:55 so that's I was feeling this presence when sitting on John ! ahahah Have a nice day mate !

[@TheAtHamptonDotCom]

the alien bounty hunter who tries to kill Mulder and Scully is a ROMULAN?!?!?!

[@hughsmith7504]

The fact that the Romulans wiped out the Harkonins makes me chuckle. The writers know what they did.

[@niamhfox9559]

The interpretation depends if the writers want to write a high minded philosophical episode, a rebellious heroic story, or an edgy 'leadership is corrupt' story. By Picard's time it has morphed into almost religious dogma like the Klingons morphed into a raiding/warring culture, through idealising Archer's self sacrificing gallows speeches. Voyager did it well by recognising that they were not seperate from anyone around them, that they should not refuse to help others for a distant ideology and Janeway holds the record for the most first contacts of any captain. Prodigy (my niece is going to be devastated if it doesn't get a second season) had an interesting take on first contact done right but still going very very wrong. The Federation did everything right, waited, assessed, talked, removed themselves when it went wrong but there was never anything they could have done right anyway. The Vau Na'kat were never going to take the existence of aliens well, they were convinced they were the centre of the universe and destroyed themselves because they couldn't undo that knowing (until time travel became an option).

[@vacationcruiser1899]

Ah yes the prime suggestion that every single starfeet caption breaks

[@TheManWithTheFlan]

To me, the Prime Directive is intended as a guardrail against colonialism and imperialism, diegetically a response to both the effects of those forces on human history as well as the early failures of interference in the pre-Federation era, and externally was also probably written in part as a reaction to the geopolitics of the cold war, which were rife with proxy wars, surreptitious funding of insurrections, and outright overthrowing of foreign governments in the interest of one superpower gaining an upper hand against the other.

[@Strash1892]

I just realized that it actually makes sense that Klingon society didn't focus on war and combat until they got space travel and began conquering and exploiting other worlds and civilizations. No society can consist entirely of warriors, but once the Klingons could force others to perform non-martial duties for them, they could afford to become a warrior culture. Of course there are still Klingons who have other main professions besides being warriors, like the Klingon chef on DS9 and various lawyers and merchants that we've seen in the shows, as well as artists and craftsmen that have been mentioned occasionally, but the majority can now allow themselves to be warriors full time.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Also that Klingon scientist that may actually be the originator of a stable temporal drive seem at the end of Voyager.

[@haydennoble9253]

Thank you for your videos. You help me understand the Star Trek universes as someone who is a Star Wars super fan.

[@nonamegiven202]

oh yes General Order 1, also known as the Plot Devictive. joking aside, the Prime Directive is such a interesting case of irony when you think about it, like it's core concept is respecting pre-warp civilization's agency while actively disregarding it because they're "primitive people".

[@Numba003]

Ah those prime directive episodes are often tough lol. I too quite enjoyed the Nibiru sequence in Into Darkness. Thank you for another interesting episode looking at the directive from another side. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@ehrgeiz0]

The history of the Klingons being enslaved by the Hur'q and overcoming them mirrors that of the Hish-qu-Ten (the ancestors of the Yautja) being enslaved by the Amengi before overcoming them.

[@MBF78]

I hate it when Star Trek is a slave to itself.

[@maybetoby]

Certain captains cross it when it suits them to do so, and hide behind it when they don't want to get involved. Like in TNG's Homeward.

[@VulpisFoxfire]

One thing to note...Starfleet has no problems with exploiting being on the *other* end of the equation--they find out a more advanced civilization was watching *them*, they're perfectly willing to yoink whatever they can from them. Kinda the Borg crossed with China, in a way.

[@Raja1938]

Not really the same thing as the more advanced civ has the decision whether to share tech or not.

[@rubaiyat300]

@@Raja1938 Though I would LOVE to find out there is some fabulously more advanced intergalactic (heck interdimensional) societies out there casually operating beyond detection that hide themselves and their entire societies because the Federation and its relative peers are deemed too primitive for contact. Not necessarily the various god aliens of Trek, those are usually petty showoffs and clearly DON'T have Prime Directives, but principled and aloof super science societies waiting for the current crop of sentients to be ready to join the actual big time.

[@keit99]

Also the vulcans came to them once humanity had warp capabilities. Once a species reaches warp capabilities the federation starts first contact. And if they are successful there's also an exchange of Technologies.

[@dupersuper1938]

What's the source of the "uncaring if those worlds were already inhabited" assertion? Into Darkness was garbage and I include the opening scene in that until some one can give me a reason the Enterprise was underwater and not in orbit.

[@zacharybrogden3038]

The thing I hated most about the new movies, was the part where Pike said they were forbidden from saving the planet because it would be a violation of the Prime Directive, regardless of if they were discovered or not, but in the original series, they did it all the time. Often on orders.

[@emperorofscelnar8443]

Technically even if there is no intelligent life on a planet your still interfering with that planets Evolution cycle.

[@masterpython]

Especially if you have some children and just abandon them

[@emperorofscelnar8443]

@@masterpython That is one of them, the children left on an alien world are basically interfering with that planets Evolution cycle because humans on that planet are basically invaders that are interfering with alien Evolution on that planet.

[@emperorofscelnar8443]

@@masterpython Yes when you colonize an alien world with no intelligent your are still interfering with that planets evolution cycle, you denying alien life a chance to become something greater or worse who knows but still your messing around with a planets evolution cycle we are foreigners invading a planet after all.

[@edsr164]

What I always loved about Trek were discussions about ethics and morality. That might doesn’t make right. Though I disagree with the Prime Directive sometimes like allowing an entire sentient species to go extinct

[@misterlau5246]

Resulted in things like "The Picard", failed first contact in TNG, I think that's the name of the episode, and even if they just show up in a planet that is affecting the ppl of it

[@doltsbane]

The problem with a non-interference policy is that it's impossible. Once you become aware of a situation you're automatically involved with it. Whether you choose to actively intervene or choose to withhold that intervention you're still making a choice that will affect the outcome. Refusing to act, as if that will absolve you of responsibility for negative outcomes is just cowardice hiding behind superficial morality.

[@Raja1938]

But it also puts you on the hook for any negative consequences, negative consequences that the more primitive people never made the choice to incur. No advanced race can predict all possible outcomes in an alien environment. Non-interference gives the most amount of informed agency for the uncontacted civilization.

[@sanguiniusonvacation1803]

Look, I don't mind being spyed on, but if your gonna eat my chips you gotta replace them

[@Marcus51090]

Nothing because they all seem to ignore it

[@Т1000-м1и]

Very cool

[@nealjroberts4050]

I've sometimes wondered if the Hurq were merely the Klingon's "gods" returning

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Doubtful. The Hurq were thought to be nomadic raiders. The Klingon gods were said to have created the first Klingon who then slew them.

[@Sparky8472a]

Didn't archer implement it after a fluff up?

[@shanenolan5625]

Does anyone remember a video on this channel. It covered something about during the dominion war starfleet ordered extra production of defiant class vessel from 7 per year to 12 oer year . At utopian fleet yards. ?

[@Syndr1]

Hi Cert, you should be a Intergalactic Lawyer. Lol

[@gunbladelad7772]

Didn't the Hur'Q also appear in the non-canon PS1 game Star Trek : Invasion?

[@damienchall8297]

if you were dying of small pox and an alien civilization was watching you and your kid die when they could easily helped are they moral

[@TheGrinningViking]

It should have prevented dealing with the bejorins, but someone made a mistake there.

[@JoeMama-sy8ty]

the SNW example with Pike is technically not a prewarp civilization, thus general order 1 does not apply.

[@mateoconk]

The Prime Directive prevents the Star Wars Universe where the first handful to technological prominence spread across living space and dominate undeveloped worlds (ie Earth and colonialism)

[@samsungstarist]

The Federation is highly complex, but imo the Prime Directive is mostly for self-preservation. It's for protection of the Federation, rather than any alien civilizations. No idea what the right thing to do would be, it'd probably be more a case by case basis, but the Prime Directive is also just.. standing by while people are dying because of x,y,z. I don't know what the right thing to do would be. Non-interference would be totally understandable to me, but once again, because of self-preservation, and not because they want to protect other pre warp species. Would that be selfish? Probably. It's what the Federation does either way, but in their view, they're morally superior for thinking like that, when I think they're really just doing it for their own benefit. We literally cannot predict the future. So to choose to not help because what if they used whatever weapon of ours to their extinction, is kind of a weak argument for me. Their own "natural" evolution can also lead to extinction. So, I guess, we're going with "survival of the fittest". I don't know if I remember correctly, but Vulcans also had first contact with Earth when Earth and humanity were pretty much shattered. They were just barely recovering from WWIII, but just because the warp was developed, first contact was suddenly a good idea? Even if the natives of the planet were just kind of a mess and hobbling around after something awful like a war. But, really, this does help with my own opinion, that there SHOULD be some interference, and of course, the Federation should ASK if some species want help. It was with the Vulcans' help that humanity flourished and ended up one of the founding members of the Federation. It was their interference that helped massively, and changed humanity's course. So, yeah, no easy answer, but imo, if you're an advanced civilization and just stand by while some species is close to its extinction, that's just cruel.

[@Awestefeld6612]

Yes, the Klingons gave more autonomy. The word for conquered species is jegh,pu'wu.

[@daveh7720]

How come Starfleet never invented a neuralizer? I'll bet Section 31 did.

[@Mobysimo]

Ah yes the Prime Directive The idea that we should just stand by and watch as an entire planet is wiped out by ramdom chance because "what if their culture changes?", like culture trumps the importance lf a living breathing person.

[@ModYoBricks]

From which series and episodes are those images of Klingons in daylight?

[@drewf41]

'Marauders' Enterprise S2E6. Its sort of a Seven Samurai, Magnificent Seven, style plot.

[@jacobe2995]

My question is why did they force them to grow food if replicator tech is a thing?

[@DarthDesolous]

Maybe in some alien species they have replicators, but naturally grown food taste better. I can’t really answer that question. Isn’t more logical reason would be invading planet for their war machine. Grabbing, precious ores and minerals to construct more battleships. I can understand that part.

[@tomhenry897]

Need an manufacture base for replicaters If all your food comes from a machine you can’t make or fix when it breaks you starve

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Diversification is always a good idea for a healthy economy. Don’t believe me? Look at Venezuela basing its entire economy on oil speculation.

[@doctorwhom1]

I would like to see a followup video on how the Prime Directive effects the Federation's relations with other nations of equal, or greater power. While we see the Federation willing to ally or war with other powers they don't send diplomatic visits or really try to influence their neighbor's internal cultures. Perhaps if they'd exercised some soft power on the Klingon culture they could have become stronger allies before things became... awkward during the Dominion war. There's also the hypocrisy when they interact with civilizations (or their remnants) that were more powerful, like the Iconians, Precursors, or Q. If they really believed that cultural contamination was such a danger they should halt their archeological efforts, and stick their fingers in their ears when Q shows up.

[@Raja1938]

Hyprocrisy with more powerful civs? Not the same thing. The UFP is making the decision to try to acquire advanced tech. The Iconians, Precursors, Q, etc. can decide to share or not share.

[@PreceptorGrant]

I guess it's about relative power really. In the case of pre-warp cultures, the most careful of handling is appropriate, it's too easy to cause a lot of harm. In the case of spacefaring minor cultures, we can tell them we think they're wrong whilst still respecting their right to do as they please on their own worlds but we shouldn't ever bully them. With roughly equal powers like the Klingon or Romulan empires, a bit of interference is kinda fair enough to defend our own interests but we shouldn't be in the business of trying to bring about wholesale reforms. When dealing with superior powers, all bets are off, though we still hold ourselves to basic ethics.

[@rubaiyat300]

Given Q's very first interaction was to put humanity on trial I don't think there is really any option of nonintervention. Heck, one could POINT to the Q and the various other meddling god aliens and say this is why we have the Prime Directive. Like where were the Organians during the Federation-Klingon War...uh the second one? Or the Dominion War?

[@wcdeich4]

It protects the Federation's cowardice, so they never have to take responsibility for actions they took b/c it says they can never take actions when they're needed.

[@captainzac24]

My fav prime directive violation is when kirk is on the mafia planet and just gives up with the soft touch and just stunns 4 city blocks and tells everyone the federation is in charge now but they just want them to go back to before they decided to imitate the mafia

[@eliza5844]

Have he done the temporal prime directive?

[@while.coyote]

Many wrongly think the prime directive is for some kind of moralistic "don't change the natural development of a planet" reasons, but the actually reason is pragmatically just to protect the federation. Uplifting primitive cultures can be extremely dangerous. The times when they break the rule is almost always because the benefit to the federation in that particular case outweighs the risks.

[@Mobysimo]

Thats what its supposed to be But for a good chunk of the time mostly TNG and Voyager, it azz treated as a dogmatic "Dont change things! Change is bad!" ideal, especially with Picard and his crew

[@Raja1938]

I'd argue that its much more than that. By introducing advanced tech to a primitive culture, you've altered the fields of study and ways that they would've pursued those studies from how they otherwise would've done. If instead they're left uncontacted, they may develop techs that the more "advanced" civ would've never thought of. Those new, different techs would benefit the advanced civ by the time the more primitive one developed warp capability or subspace communcation.

[@rubaiyat300]

@@Raja1938 Very true, one need only look at all those one off aliens that TNG and Voyager encountered that often had seemingly very schizo tech with some advances well beyond what a 100+ member Federation had discovered but were otherwise at the mercy of a single (if powerful Starfleet vessel).

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Insurrection comes to mind.

[@tk5800thesecond]

oh no! not the harkonens! they're brutal!

[@seansteinbacher6449]

i thought the haakonians where in the delta quadrant the species that had conflict with the talaxians and used the metreon cascade on the talaxian moon ?

[@winterburden]

It prevents liability. It isn't designed to protect other civilizations, it's supposed to protect the federation.

[@darthbloodborn]

how many beings suffered beacause the prime directive convinced the federation that doing nothing was better then interfering and saving lives

[@densetsu4286]

we see a good reason for the prime directive in the first episode of strange new worlds. A primitive race after seeing what discovery did makes a warp bomb instead of a wapr drive. And as it was mentioned by spock, every instance of warp technology has always been warp drive except for this. Basically interfering with a primitive culture that is not ready for interstellar travel is basically doomed to kill themselves if they get a hold of it early. Thats why the prime directive exists. The federation isn't looking for conquest but are looking to unite. The romulans and are about subjugation so it does matter. And the klingon's are all about battle so again doesn't matter.

[@davidlister7590]

NOTHING at all same as the Temporal Prime Directive both prevent nothing as seen by watching or playing anything to do with ST as its null and void when ever they feel like it.

[@AGP510]

The episode where river gets exposed to the civilization that’s about to go to warp?

[@Soguwe]

The prime directive is a terrible idea Let's imagine for a brief moment the people of the second Planet of the star Flørkel The Flørkelians are a proud people They are a wise people Their medical tech is beyond anything we could ever even imagine They can cure just about everything, from the common cold to cancer, nothing in the galaxy would pose a challenge to their meds Because of that, they can coax basically unlimited amount of living space out of the second planet of the star Flørkel The Stars in the night sky look pretty to the Flørkeloids, and they tell stories of their trek through the night sky, but they have no desire to explore them The second Planet of the star Flørkel provides all they need, and they are content to explore it's myriad of wonders The three moons of the second planet of the star Flørkel seem interesting Maybe they too host life like the second planet of the star Flørkel, but if they do, the Flørk are in no hurry to find out. The second planet of the star Flørkel still has so much places to offer, why risk your life on the chance that there might be life if you could spend it on the one place you _know_ has life? One day, the federation starship Barbarossa enters the system of the star Flørkel The crew takes note of an M class planet, but the civilisation is pre-warp,so they don't make contact and leave The federation just lost the best doctors they would ever have Progress is never linear, and never predictable, it's dependent on culture The idea that civilisations follow certain pattern towards a certain outcome is imperialistic bullshit The Romans had developed and then abandoned an early steam engine It was just a novelty, no way that could be useful Mesoamerican cultures used obsidian stone tools we still use today for certain surgeries because we can't create 'modern' blades that can compete Indigenous people in the Americas had a completely unique,sustainable way of cultivating the land and producing crops that quite substantially impacted the global climate, but the uncivilised Europeans didn't understand and thought they were just foraging in the woods The prime directive is a stupid idea born out of a misguided, western-centric ideology that all civilisation develops the way white Europeans did Something like this should not have a place in star treks utopia

[@tomhenry897]

Or get technology that makes one sides army more powerful then anyone elses

[@Soguwe]

@@tomhenry897 Slava Ukraina, my friend The last months should have proven that superior technology or manpower isn't everything

[@TheZacula]

The thing is that the Federation *generally* tries to avoid interfering with other cultures overall, not just pre-warp. The reason they allow themselves contact *after* they get warp tech is that a warp-capable civilization is going to contact another species soon enough anyways, so it might as well be a friendly face they see first.

[@Soguwe]

@@TheZacula I mean, minding your own business is a given It might not be that obvious for muricans, but not shoving your own ideals down other people's throat is the normal thing to do, you don't really need a rule for that And how exactly does a species being warp-capable change anything about the friendly face of the federation? The federation will be science loving space communists no matter what, why waste decades or centuries waiting for potential friends to hop to the stars when you can give them a lift?

[@thecosmickid8025]

​@@Soguwe Indigenous people in the Americas by and large *no longer practice* their ways of cultivating the land and producing crops because an industrial civilization landed on their shores, colonized their continent, and destroyed their cultural institutions both through intentional action and unintentional contamination. This is precisely the scenario the Prime Directive is written to prevent. So I fundamentally don't get your point. You seem to be arguing directly against yourself.

[@4G12]

The Romulan Star Empire sounds a lot like a currently existing empire hell bent on world domination at all costs.

[@SpazzyMcGee1337]

It's like horse stealing. It's so emphasized and severely punished because it's so easy to violate.

[@petrameyer1121]

The statement of the Prime Directive is very easy: Never do anything to anybody, FIRST! :)

[@JubeiKibagamiFez]

I don't know why, but I had previously thought that the Klingons had gotten warp technology from Pre-Prime Directive Earth.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Naw. The Klingon’s had already established their vast interstellar empire long before earthling space flight began.

[@JubeiKibagamiFez]

@@Shapes_Quality_Control I have no idea where I got that idea from.... I thought it was the reason Federation and Klingons were fighting in TOS.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

@@JubeiKibagamiFez I was scrolling through comments and someone mentioned something similar in regards to a very old Trek novel that’s non canon now.

[@JubeiKibagamiFez]

@@Shapes_Quality_Control Yeah, that's where I got it from, then. I've never read any of those books, but a lot of the Trek videos I watched referenced the books, though.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

What, exactly, does the Prime Directive actualy mean. I mean it's constantly mentioned, but never worded.

[@middleearthemarxist2433]

Should that be Veridian 3 or Veridian 4 at the end? Four was said to be inhabited, but I guess given the the incredibly Earth-like M-Class-ness of Three, it's not inconceivable it's own sapient species could evolve eventually off the microbes from the D's hull... 🤯

[@joebullock5450]

Any other’s watching this and going, so how much of this UFO/Alien influence helped create this concept?

[@skywise001]

The mission with the crystal egg Hurk temple has immages of Trek interfearance. You should show them off :D

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

K-13 couldn’t exactly help that though being lost in time thanks to Nakuul fuckery.

[@radeadcool]

"I don't know how to communicate this, or even if it is possible to do so... but the question of justice has concerned me greatly of late. And so I say to any creature who may be listening: There can be no justice, so long as laws are absolute. Life itself is an exercise in exceptions." and yet the federation by their Prime Directive commits genocide but letting people die. The Klingons also prove this point. The federation believes that any race can not handle the understanding of the tec like warp drive, but Klingons, mostly farmers and warriors at this time did. their brains didnt explode but rather they said to themselves never again based off their experiances. The Federation treates things like they are in bubbles but we are all connected.

[@ryanlaurie8733]

Expedient conflict resolution

[@RelativelyBest]

In the setting I've been working on, there isn't a hard prime directive equivalent, however colonialism and imperialism has become quite uncommon due to the proliferation of space habitats and resources not being much of a concern. Beyond that, it is the opinion of the more advanced factions that intelligent species who have not yet achieved psionic-based technology are essentially not worth contacting. They'd have nothing to contribute and would become entirely dependent on alien technology they could not replicate just to "hang out with the big boys," which is viewed as doing them a disservice. That, and more cynical people argue that there is already enough interplanetary squabbling going on, with every new addition to the galactic community bringing more conflicting cultural values and ideologies into the mix. Still, it's more of a general policy than a rule. Exceptions can be made depending on the circumstances, and you don't get in serious trouble for setting your ship down on a primitive world and talking to the natives. It's just frowned upon.

[@Mephiestopholes]

Hey, Rick!

[@TailsTheFoxy]

It might have been a good cause in theory, but it actually is a very bad directive that endangers whole civilizations. And it also is very classist and basically playing god with extra steps.

[@justarandomgothamite5466]

???? It's the very opposite it PREVENTS people from playing god. That's literally the entire thing of the prime directive that you are not allowed to play god.

[@VulpisFoxfire]

Less a bad directive, than a badly applied and enforced one, really.

[@tomhenry897]

Not really Look at our dealings with the Indians Bought land for beads Once the Indians saw our steel weapons they sold themselves for them to attack other Indians Let’s talk small pox

[@Regnier191]

I still maintain the Romulans are the biggest bad in ST. More than Borg, Dominion, Species 8472 etc.

[@pathevermore3683]

The Romulus are the Federation's palette swap.

[@sptony2718]

Prime Directive please follow dilligently at all times*. *exceptions may apply

[@kfcroc18]

Kirk interfering with that Stoneage people should of gotten him a slip-on the wrist not a chewing out.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Exactly!

[@PRGME7]

I figured I could post a prime directive thought experiment here. The question: what if a pre warp culture is so different from any humanoid cultures that even stepping foot on that planet would violate the prime directive? The result of this thought experiment was a planet of sapient cats. They have cultures similar to lion prides save that more members of the culture can do more things. Of course, being cats they have extraordinary senses of smell and hearing. So, if anybody from a federation ship or otherwise even got in the general area of a pride, that particular pride could develop differently than they would have otherwise. To one of these cats, a humanoid would seem like an incomprehensible monster similar to Bigfoot or other cryptids in our culture. So if a cat even got a glimpse through sight, smell, sound, anything, they would spread that tale to every member of their pride, the males that leave to form their own pride would carry that story with them and eventually the story of a by then long dead humanoid would be myth to them. And with them not really able to rub two sticks together to make fire they’re stuck in a Stone Age culture for however long that species lasts.