What Happened to the Dark Elves of Middle-earth?

Dark Elves were those who had not seen the Light of Valinor, those who would mostly never go there. So what would happen to them? Let’s dive in! Thank you all for watching, let me know your thoughts on the Dark Elves in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@adamtideman4953]

They all moved to Morrowind.

[@denzglodoviza9028]

Middle Earth N'wahs

[@hua_tetsu_cat]

Also in Naggarond too

[@Barad_door]

LMFAOOO I love this

[@Count.Saruman]

​​@@hua_tetsu_catOh, not those. Their origin story was slightly different. Unlike the Chimer and the Avari, the Naggarothi weren't social outcasts- they were the military aristocracy of Ulthuan that fell out of favour in Bel-Shanaar's age of peace. In Aenarion's time the High Elves were under stratocracy with these military families on top, and in peacetime they weren't trusted with high office- so they eventually rebelled.

[@SlxmReaperX]

Facts man I think this is the best one yet 😂😂

[@CosmicCorviknight]

Imagine being an Avari who has lived millennia in eastern Middle Earth enjoying the starlight and then suddenly and inexplicably the Sun rises for the first time ever. Maybe many years later word reaches you that it was put there to replace a glowing tree which got sucked dry by a spooky cosmic spider, but you're not sure if this is a true story as you've never seen a magically glowing tree before in all your years

[@phengyang00]

This must be how all religions felt when face to face with science.

[@darrendin2050]

​@@phengyang00 All religions except the word of Christ.

[@DevinDTV]

​@@phengyang00it's actually sad that that's where your mind went

[@HerrrLuna]

You wouldn't have been "enlightened" enough! XD

[@michaelsriqui7898]

I think that it is implied that the dark elves were always given the opportunity to travel to Valinor if they wished and it is possible that much like Legolas, many of them might have developed a sea longing and felt the urge to travel west eventually. I cannot imagine that they would be doomed to remain in Middle Earth forever, surely all but the most stubborn would have eventually gone to the undying lands even if only in spirit form after their body had faded.

[@TheCarrShow]

Yes, the longing to go in the uttermost West is in all elves, and Legolas says it is perilous to stir that longing. But the narrator is referring to the Great March, when all of the elves were encouraged to travel West.

[@shannonjulie98]

Happy 10th Channel Anniversary :)

[@nosuchthingasahandlefools]

I don't seem to comment often so I owe you. This was great. Much as I love the Noldor/Vanyar and their happy little Valinor bunch, life requires "living" and man-oh-man did those who did NOT sail away lived awesome lives.

[@orrointhewise87]

"Never trust an elf." Just goes to show u the love of middle earth and it's places was enough to keep elves from wanting to see the west. Baffles me but the feeling of home is a powerful thing.

[@Didymus20X6]

Merry Christmas! Today is Sauron's favorite holiday: THE FIFTH DAY OF CHRISTMAS.

[@phillipmargrave]

FIVE GOLDEN RINGS!

[@ericwaxman6437]

I have always found interesting that Aragorn is considered the last numenorian and that his children with Arwen would somehow have less stature. Arwen was 3/4 Elven and from very high lineage, including a more direct bloodline to Melina, the Maia. Much more direct than that of Aragon. If anything their offspring should have been an enhancement over Aragon’s own bloodline.

[@ahentargs]

It's probably due to patrilineality so the mother's lineage is sadly disregarded

[@professornikos4905]

It's more like the magic of Middle Earth slowly starts declining all together. Numenorian lineage was partly magic

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

More than that. Arwen is a full-blooded Elf. Her father was Half-Elven but chose to be reembodied by the Valar as a true Elf while his twin brother chose to be counted among Men before becoming the first king of Numenor.

[@ericwaxman6437]

@@teleportedbreadfor3daysDepends on how you view Elrond. He definitely made the election before Arwen was conceived but his blood still was half human, which is why did I did not credit him at 100 percent. Interesting argument that he was transmuted so maybe no human genes left.

[@KuK137]

Sadly, that's the era's sexism. Galadriel is the most powerful person in Middle Earth left who could easily wipe the floor with everyone in Ring party except for Gandalf (and could beat even him easily unless he used his full power), but Tolkien reduced her to quest item dispenser giving actual MALE heroes freshly baked bread and lamps, such importance, much wow...

[@ghostdreamer7272]

I think all Elves could choose to go to Valinor, after the war of Wrath. Cirdan was a shipbuilder, not a gatekeeper. Thanks for doing a more in-depth look at the Avari! It’s also worth pointing out that all Vanyar went to and stayed in Valinor, all Noldor who took up the journey to Valinor got there (with some coming back) but the Avari were mostly Noldor who never decided to go. All the Umanyar, the Elves who went on the journey but didn’t all make it, were Teleri, and no Teleri returning to Middle-earth and a minority of Teleri never going on the journey and being a minority within the Noldor-dominated Avari. I wish we had more info on the Six Tribes… they probably had millennia of peace, after Melkor was captured, and had such a long time to develop very distinctively without any influence of the Valar. Also, it seems the Avari were probably “right” and it was a mistake for the Valar to call all Elves to Valinor.

[@snoonan768]

I tend to consider the sindarin elves are in fact light elves. This is because they dwelt in the light of the two trees through the last silmaril. Also they were taught by melian the maia.

[@MenoftheWest]

Oh I like that!

[@ecthelion1735]

Grey elves

[@whiteknightcat]

This is indeed a confusing topic. I was just involved in a drawn out discussion in another video regarding the lineage of Thranduil and Tauriel. Finally got it untangled that Oropher / Thranduil / Legolas were of the Sindar as opposed to the Silvan elves who settled in Greenwood the Great and in Lothlorien.

[@samuraijack6057]

Good video! And congrats on 10 years!

[@kristofr6862]

I think it's neat that Arwen and her brothers who have the most powerful blood of all the elves in Middle Earths history, coming from the lineages of the three original elven lords who first of all saw the two trees: Elwe, Olwe and Finwe (as well as Melian the Maiar), is STILL considered a dark elf. Kinda neat! :)

[@alias5084]

She also has the blood of the royalty of all 3 houses of the Edain. It is strange to me how many overlook that Elronds family is the combination of both the Royalty of the high elves but also the Noble houses of men from the first age.

[@upschutt4842]

Would they regard Legolas as a dark elf as well, even though he was born way later and went to Valinor in the end?

[@MenoftheWest]

Yep! Even though he went to Valinor, he never beheld the light of the Trees.

[@catherinewhite2943]

Same with Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen.

[@massacolonel5950]

@@catherinewhite2943But they are Noldorin of the House of Fingolfin. That makes them of the Calaquendi.

[@StuartistStudio1964]

​@@MenoftheWest No, he was of Sindarin descent, so, even though he never beheld the Light of the Two Trees, by virtue of his heritage, he wasn't a Dark Elf.

[@Apollo1989V]

Anyone of the lineage of those who beheld the light of the two trees are light elves. Legolas is of the Sindar, who never completed the journey.

[@juan5501]

Man they’re the mocha of dark elves, compared to 40k or whatever. Very interesting indeed well done

[@joshburg09]

Loved this video! I’ve always thought of the “Light Elves” as gaining their distinctiveness not simply because of seeing the Trees, but also because they dwelt with and learned from the Valar. Surely the Light itself had virtue and changed them, but the skill and lore they learned also made them different from other Elves. Perhaps talking about those who saw the light of the trees is shorthand for both components of living in Valinor.

[@captainandthelady]

I think that somebody should write a story about the Blur Elves. Who were they? Where did the go? What did they do? It's all a mystery and I, for one, would like to know.

[@lordkev740]

This is a very illuminating and very interesting video. I enjoyed it very much. 🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@FairbrookWingates]

There is thought by some that it was a mistake of the Valor to invite the elves to Valinor, that their true home was always to be Middle Earth. Thus, arguably, the dark elves who remained did not suffer a tragic fate, but in becoming spirits within the realm of the world they continued their destined existence in peace and satisfaction.

[@grallonsphere]

They work on the cheap in one of Amazon's delivery centers.

[@captainhotrod7948]

I don't remember anywhere in the lore that says dark elves were forbidden to travel to Valinor because of their choice to stay previously or their ancestor's choices. Where can I find that?

[@CriticalNuance]

I like the Avari. I don't view them as needing any redemption for "denying the Gods". I actually view the summons of the Valar as an improper seclusion from the rest of the active world. The Avari chose to stay in their natural and original habitat of Middle Earth instead of idling in sedentary bliss, isolated from any hardship and struggle. The Avari chose to stay in the real community rather than moving to the gated community. It always baffles me that Avari are sometimes portrayed as rustic and primeval. Even if they were as "basic" as humans, would they not be extremely advanced and skilled with millenia long lifespans? I respect the Avari.

[@istari0]

The Avari are considered that way in comparison to the Elves who went to Valinor and learned much from the Valar.

[@samuelleask1132]

Great video brother

[@shadowofchaos8932]

I use the analogy of the Elf factions like Christianity. Each is a branch of something for different reasons.

[@Comicnut64]

Totally forgot about dark elves let’s go Yoystan excellent work

[@WhispyWoods.]

Great information 👍

[@randybarner6483]

Now that you mention, Tolkien Dark, or Wood Elves, there was good in some of them. Hopefully that counts for something.

[@nosuchthingasahandlefools]

Dark did not refer to bad or evil but those who never beheld the Trees of Valinor. The Woodland Realm's elves did not see the trees so they were called Dark Elves, but so could those of LothLorien (save Galadriel)

[@istari0]

Where did Tolkien write that the Úmanyar and the Avari were never allowed to travel to the Undying Lands? I don't recall reading this.

[@shauntempley9757]

It was during the Noldor exile. The Valar closed the route to all of them, and then cursed them with fading if they did not go to Valinor in The Doom Of Mandos. That fading affects every elf. Because men had come to Middle Earth, which was meant for them.

[@anni.68]

@@shauntempley9757 The Valar did not curse them with fading. That's simply a result of Arda Marred. The Doom of Mandos ended with the War of Wrath.

[@shauntempley9757]

​@@anni.68 They were included with the Doom. Gandalf said as much when the plight of the Elves that did not go West, and refused the call both was discussed. Frodo asked about it when he was pondering what he experienced with the Elves, since he had the ones he met in the Shire, and Elrond's for comparison. Gandalf said quite clearly that should the One Ring be destroyed, or it returns to Sauron, the Elves are no longer to stay in Middle Earth. That includes the Elves in the video. Their time in Middle Earth is done as well.

[@ethanwelch3235]

It’s so interesting to think that there would still be a population of Avari still living in the dark and uncharted far eastern reaches of Middle Earth long after the Third Age. Completely unknown and mere myth to the peoples of Men.

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

I just keep thinking about the Drow from Dungeons and Dragons. They probably trace their roots to the Dark Elves here.

[@PatrickMJr]

Hail Lolth!

[@SMiki55]

More to the Svartalfar I think.

[@celdur4635]

I never understood if it made sense for Eru to create the Elves on the far east of Middle Earth, as people of the land and then they "had" to move to Valinor or fade?

[@sakemp3480]

The Valar were in Middle Earth and then left to Aman. Eru was just letting things play out based on the music.

[@StuartistStudio1964]

Okay, to set the record straight, there are Elves of Light, who went to Valinor, and dwelt within the Light (and their descendants), Grey Elves, who are those who, for the most part, beheld the Light of the Two Trees from afar, but did not enter Valinor (and their descendants), and the Dark Elves, who were those who either refused the journey, who fell away during the journey, or who made it to Belariand, but didn't behold the Light of the Two Trees (and their descendants).

[@istari0]

Please clarify what you mean by "beheld the Light of the Two Trees from afar." So far as I am aware, Valinor was not visible from the westernmost edge of Beleriand so the Teleri who became the Sindar would not have seen the light from the trees. Before the return of the Noldor, only Elwë and Melian the Maia would have seen the light of the trees.

[@StuartistStudio1964]

@istari0 Valinor was visible from Belariand, otherwise Belariand would not have been visible from Valinor. And the burning of the ships taken by Feanor and his sons was seen by the Noldorim who were left behind. Also, even if much of the land of Valinor wasn't visible, the Light of the Two Trees reached well into Belariand. This is why, with their dying, not only was Valinor plunged into darkness, but Belariand was as well. Granted, the light which reached Belariand was more like twilight, thus the Sindarin were Grey Elves.

[@Alex-s-m2p]

​@@StuartistStudio1964The Grey Elves were never in Valinor. They dwelt in Ossiriand. They were of Telerin origin but their people never actually left Beleriand. Grey has nothing to do with the light of Two Trees.

[@StuartistStudio1964]

@@Alex-s-m2p Where did I ever say they went to Valinor? Did you even read what I wrote? I'm done with this whole damn thread.

[@Alex-s-m2p]

​@@StuartistStudio1964 You said "granted, the light which Beleriand was more like twilight, thus the Sindarin were Grey Elves". You made it sound like the Grey Elves were in reference to the light of the Trees. Your sentence was confusing. No need to get into a snit dude, just chill.

[@alexstewart9747]

Whoa. I’d never considered that all Elves born after the death of the 2 Trees were Dark Elves. Crazy……..!!

[@artemismoonbow2475]

I never thought they, "Denied the Gods." I felt that the Valar made that decision without Eru's direct guidance and showed a bit of hubris in doing so. Eru had them awaken in Middle Earth as the first born. Not even Manwe can deny that or can he claim to know why.

[@getreal2977]

This was interesting. Dark elves of ME are certainly different from what most fantasy worlds made out of Dark elves. as far as I am concerned, for me low elves were the orcs as they were the corrupted versions of elves.

[@alias5084]

Pretty sure all elves once their body dies from injury or fading completly are called to the halls of Mandos according to Tolkien. Also think at the end of the first age the road to Valinor was made open to all elves not just those that had left Valinor. Lastly all the 144 original elves that awoke chose to stay in Middle Earth. I dont think choosing to stay was seen as a bad thing it was simply choosing a different path.

[@PatrickMJr]

My question is what about the elves corrupted by Melkor?

[@Alex-s-m2p]

​@@PatrickMJrThey were tortured and corrupted. They eventually became the first Orcs.

[@PatrickMJr]

@Alex-s-m2p I know this, my question was were they allowed into the halls of mandos?

[@Alex-s-m2p]

@@PatrickMJr Good question! I'm not quite sure. If I had to guess probably they may have entered the Halls of Mandos when they were killed because they were originally Elves afterall.They still had their Fea(Spirits) even after corruption. The succeeding generation of Orcs? No.

[@gortauth3260]

Dark elfs are true MPCs of arda mysterious and powerful look at Eol

[@rebeccaorman1823]

Being a light elf seems to be hereditary. All Valinor, Noldor and some Sindar are considered Eldar (high elf, light elf). So Elrod is considered a light elf.

[@rebeccaorman1823]

Sorry, it's the Telari who are High Elves not the Sindar.

[@Egilhelmson]

Vanyar (a people), not Valinor (a place).

[@rebeccaorman1823]

@Egilhelmson you're right of course. Sorry, I was in a hurry.

[@kotarojujo2737]

Theyre still alive, assume new identity as men hiding their ears and works at your local walmart

[@arnorrian1]

When enough time passed the hroä of the elves that stayed in the Middle-Earth faded, and only their unbound feä remained. At that moment the call of the Valar became irresistible to them, even stronger than if they heard the waves of the ocean of the calls of the seagulls. They would drift to the Halls of Mandos and be reimbodied after some time, to join their kin in Valinor, and wait for the battle at the end of time.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Tolkien said that in his earliest conception, the Dark Elves were "imagined as wandering about, and often ill-disposed towards the 'Light-Elves'". Later he considered an additional use of the term: "sometimes applied to Elves captured by Morgoth and enslaved and then released to do mischief among the Elves." He thought that this latter idea should be taken up for Eol.

[@lexington476]

The Drow of Middle Earth 🙂.

[@kaidorade1317]

They went underground and built their own city known as Mezoburazan. It’s ruled by 8 matron houses and most men are warriors mages or bed fellows

[@rocketraccoon1976]

They migrated to the deep places of Middle-Earth and started worshipping Ungoliant.

[@PatrickMJr]

Hail Lolth!!

[@TheSaneHatter]

An elf like Elrond, I would be tempted to call, a "Twilight Elf," both in reference to his mixed ancestry and to the ages in which he lived: the fading years of his people. As for the final fate of the Avari, I'd like to think that they were given one last chance to come across the Sea at the end, and that perhaps, at least one of them actually took up the offer. Perhaps one Dark Elf, whether through fear of fading or a desire to see his people's ways and stories remembered in Aman, decided to make the trip, with enormous trepidation, and sailed from the Grey Havens as a voice for his/her people. That would make a good story, I think . . .

[@Wiggin03book]

I am thankful for these videos because if I were to try and read this information I would so zoom out like with the Silmarillion (sorry to say :( ).

[@GrimlyFiendish-d6z]

Dark Elves became the mysterious magical folk that dwell in the deep forests and caves, i.e. legendary beings in our old tales and legends. Becoming less and less like the noble beings that they once were, and more and more like fairy tale figures.

[@anni.68]

Elrond and Legolas are Dark Elves, too.

[@MarionBaggins]

Man, I do wonder how many after left after two had the same fate like Father and Son!!! Funny Thingol got Lost...Funny way of Saying Melian, Mellon!!! Thanks for...Wait I forgot we have a LiveStream I can say more there, Thanks for this Video Mellon I will see you soon in LiveStream case!!! Until Valar Tier Ranking in Power *Gee who is #1 I wonder* Marion Baggins Out!!!

[@Nick-qq2nq]

Chad Thingol got “lost” aka was busy clapping maiar cheeks for 200 years.

[@TETASARAIVACS]

Yeah, Tolkien made it quite simple calling Dark Elves (which had the meaning of “Elves of the Dark”) those who had’t seen the Light (of the Trees).

[@efaristi9737]

7:14 I don't think the Dark Elves are restricted from going to Valinor if they wished to. Legolas and Elrond both went there eventually and they were Dark Elves. The Elves that stay on Middle-Earth choose to stay, they were not forced to do so. 9:15 Yes, i'm pretty sure it's stated that if a elf die, no matter his lineage, he would go to the Halls of Mandos. It's the fate of all elves if they die.

[@ImagineMySurprise510]

I thought the elves who did not sail to Valinor, which would include any elves that stayed in Middle-earth in the Fourth Age, would "dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten". This would include eventually, I suppose, the elves of Thranduil's realm. This doesn't seem to imply they became ghosty-spirit things; they sound like the continued to be physical enough, but lost their heritage and knowledge of their past.

[@Moon_Jellyfish__h]

Please 🙏🏻 🙏🏻 make a theory video on if Frodo was actually killed by Shelob and Sam had to destroy the Ring

[@ttandc]

Could seeing the light of the 2 trees given some kind of radiation exposure that continued in the liniage of those that followed the elves that did see the trees?

[@Alex-s-m2p]

No that is not how that works in Tolkien's legendarium. They just have the light of the Two Trees in their eyes.

[@markgregorygacosta531]

Dark Elves of middle earth Amazon/Hollywood: "Ah there are dark elves? let's hire will smith, and Denzel for the roles

[@wannaim6499]

They already did in Ring of Power series. I found it rather peculiar when they casted black actors/actresses for the role of common Elves, not Dark Elves.

[@anni.68]

​​@@wannaim6499Arondir and the other Elves with dark skin or Asian looks in Rings of Power are Avari Elves, who came into the West long after the Great March. They fit fine into the Legendarium.

[@markgregorygacosta531]

you guys know I'm roasting Hollywood right? and I hate those castings. Totally shits on Tolkien's works

[@anni.68]

@@markgregorygacosta531 And why exactly does casting black actors "shit on Tolkien's work"? Only book proof, please. Let's discuss Tolkien, shall we :) And... In the Second Age the only two (named) Elves who are _not_ Dark Elves are Galadriel and Celebrimbor.

[@PauxloE]

I'm not sure whether the concept of light and dark elves still apply to the ones born after the destruction of the trees and the creation of Sun and Moon, except possibly by ancestry. They all got their light from sun and moon anyhow (except if they lived underground, but I don't think this happened often with elves).

[@PYRESATVARANASI]

I think they simply became spirits (feys) wandering their former homelands. To be forgotten by men and the mundane aspect of human development (less magical, more technological and scientific, as men lost connection to the magical element of Arda). They waned to become fairy tales and folklore of old spoken about in taverns and by storytellers wandering around towns.

[@cm275]

NGL, I’d love some stories about the Blue Wizards leading a guerrilla war in the East with some Dark Elves and Men.

[@daniels7907]

I don't think that they get a choice about going to the Halls of Mandos if they die. So if they were caught up in battles against Sauron and his Easterlings then at least some of them ended up there. Whether or not the Valar would refuse to reembody them is probably dependent on what kind of people they were, since we the readers know little about the Valar's criteria. I expect that Thranduil would lead his people to leave, if only because he himself could be reunited with his family in Valinor, thus he had more incentive to leave than to stay. Any Avari who stayed in Middle-earth would sadly become ghost stories among Men.

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

It would be a nice thought if they did make it to valinor in the fourth or fifth age but made the request to dwell not in valinor itself but the serene halls of the moon.

[@josephhartley4668]

I assume that after the two trees were cut down, any elf born after this never got the choice to experience the light and the distinct between Dark Elf and High Elf would not apply. All elves born after this would be given a new choice to return to Valanor and become something like a Valanorian wood elf, or stay in middle earth an eventually become shades or fade from the world

[@saladinbob]

If Elrond was a Dark Elf but was offered and took up the chance to sail to Valinor, why would the Dark Elves back East not be offered the same choice? Also why should seeing the two Trees make on any more special, any more "High" and presumably mighty, than those who earned their stripes in battle with Morgoth? I would think those who fought and defeated the ultimate evil in Middle Earth are more worthy of being called High than those who sat on their arse in paradise, not lifting a finger to help. I wish Tolkien where alive, or I was older because there's an awful lot in his writings I would challenge on an intellectual level. To debate him would have been an honour.

[@anni.68]

The Noldor called them Dark Elves, not Tolkien :) As the Sindar found this term pretty offensive, the Noldor instead called them Umanyar, "those not of Aman".

[@Dr_Cole]

For the many here that have been watching the videos for years now, we need videos like this to help keep us honest on what we know. That said, this felt like necessary homework 😀

[@BWinced]

Did the infusion of 3/4 elven blood from Arwen not "boost" the blood of Elros? The diminished bloodline comment made me wonder.

[@minecraftfox4384]

Arwen is 100% elf.

[@MJC1891]

I wonder what would happen if king cobra jfs seen the light of the two trees. Would it cure his boglum disease?

[@phillipmargrave]

The Noldor and high elves as a bloodline were exceedingly arrogant. The Noldor mass murdered the Sea Elves and many ran like cowards from Morgoth and his servants put to come back in pursuit of petty shiny trinkets (simarils). The dark/wood elves stayed in Middle Earth resisting Morgoth and Sauron the entire time. They are the noble ones, not the Noldor.

[@PatrickMJr]

The drow went to the dark realms where even the dwarves wouldn't delve. (Yes im cross referencing Middle Earth and Faerun)

[@Arkaeus04]

Actual Tolkien dark elves not what ever Amazon created in rop

[@anni.68]

The Elves in Rings of Power are Avari from the East and South of Middle-earth. The Avari are also Dark Elves.

[@emperorvader1310]

I am sure some fought for Sauron. Even a few as captains.

[@denniss618]

As with any story there are holes that you must fill with your imagination.. One I have a great deal of trouble with is the 2 trees. No sun? the trees may give light but no sun means no heat. Prior to the sun this rock would have been a tad chilly.

[@anni.68]

Tolkien later changed this story and decided that the sun existed from the beginning of time and that the old story of the creation of the sun from the last fruit of Laurelin was just a "mannish myth" ( History of Middle-eart, Morgoth's Ring, " Myths transformed).

[@Volnas97]

It would be interesting if there were societies and Elven kingdoms in far east, that are just continuing to exist without any contact with their western relatives

[@user-bl7em8sx6o]

I don't think you understand what orcs represent lol

[@Volnas97]

@user-bl7em8sx6o I do, but there is significant a chance, that some Avari escaped this fate and continued their existence as elves in the east

[@swiftmatic]

@9:12, It's in "The Silmarillion" that all elven spirits went to the Halls of Mandos , there to endure or be re-embodied.

[@MenoftheWest]

Except those that chose to linger, such as Amdír’s followers in the Dead Marshes

[@Brett-uq4tz]

​Hi there, quick question, has anyone suggested that you do a video on the magical singing contest between sauron and finrod felagund?@@MenoftheWest

[@JanPeter-n8b]

Casted away, by the Rings of Powet they were.

[@michardav]

Aren't all Noldor High Elves, even born centuries after the return of the Noldor?

[@connor5976]

Good video but there not enough hate for Eol and maeglin

[@Michael-ji3gw]

Elrond wasn't offered to go to Valinor after the first age?

[@anni.68]

All Elves were offered to go to Aman, Elrond, too.

[@purefoldnz3070]

Have you heard of the High Elves? Er... Dark Elves?

[@liamwilson7549]

would be cool to see another lord of the rings anime but i guess the community doesn't like fun

[@AnRoEppOmilid-Setit]

The dark elves were those elves who were given the opportunity to go to Valinor but refused to do so. Therefore, they became elves of the dark as well as their offsprings. Elrond, Thranduil, Legolas are not “technically” “dark elves” just because they did not “behold” the light. That is not how it works. Their ancestors went to Valinor. Dark elves are those who did not go there or were offsprings of those who did not go there before the the War with Melkor.

[@anni.68]

The Noldor called all Elves who did not see the Two Trees Dark Elves, no matter if they were Avari, the Unwilling, or the Umanyar, who did not finish the journey to Aman and stayed in Middle-earth. Elrond, Arwen, Thranduil, Legolas and Celeborn are Dark Elves. "Those Elves the Calaquendi [the Elves who went to Aman] call the Úmanyar, since they came never to the land of Aman and the Blessed Realm; but the Úmanyar and the Avari alike they call the Moriquendi, Elves of the Darkness, for they never beheld the Light that was before the Sun and Moon. (J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, "Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor")

[@dirtbird7415]

They saw the light 😅

[@angusmacrae2368]

Did they turn into the orgs

[@Whiskey0880]

They became Don Lemonless.

[@whitleypedia]

He coild have found a word other than dark methinks

[@venkelos6996]

From my perspective, this fate hardly feels like yhe tragedy it is probably supposed to, and I'll blame Tolkien, as i usually do. As in so much else, here the Elves seem favored. It is rarely SHOWN how Elves suffer in Middle Earth; at one time, they were even intended to live here, and even after Morgoth marred Arda, many spent thousands of years comfortably dwelling in Middle Earth, with no ill effect. If Men had gone to Valinor, they would have felt wrong, and died, but the Elves could walk the forests here practically forever, and because of our limited lifespans, we would almost never be avle to perceive their souls smolxrring eithin their bodies, or any other side effects they were intending to escape, by journeying to Aman, and evennif they died, which we're led to believe Elves can choose to do, they'll just go to the Halls of Mandos, like countless other Elves had, over the many centuries, and they'd bexas fine as any other soul slumming it in the Halls, leaving us to again wonder, for every fast-tracked Glorfindel, how long are most Elves expecting to wait to be reembodied? If their souls were compelled to rot here, and couldn't join Mandos, which makes no sense, as that's literally what Elf souls do, when they die, that would be more harrowing, but it just doesn't seem, to me, how things have been depicted to work. They might ache here, and eventually they will die; either succumbing to injury, or choosing to part their souls and bodies, like the earliest Numenoreans did when they accepted the emd had come, and then they'll go to Mandos, and await their fate, which diesnt seem tragic, im the long run.

[@istari0]

Before Melkor interfered, the Elves, as the first-born, were intended to serve as mentors to Men and then eventually leave Middle-Earth to live with the Valar. Also, the Elves were immortal but also bound to Arda, unlike Men who when they died passed beyond the Circles of the World. The Elves did not know what would be there long-term fate when the world ended. If you have a copy o Morgoth's Ring, there's a fascinating section called the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth that covers this.

[@Wiggin03book]

This is getting (not getting, it is) confusing😢.

[@Serai3]

No, Elrond did not go to Valinor. Nobody got to go back to Valinor. He went to Tol Eressea, which is far off the coast of Valinor.

[@user-bl7em8sx6o]

But he takes the same trip as frodo and Gandalf. So did they make multiple stops or something?

[@Serai3]

@@user-bl7em8sx6o No, they didn't go to Valinor either. They went to the Lonely Isle, Tol Eressea. Gandalf would have stayed for a while, probably while the hobbits still lived, and then passed on to his home, while the Elves could go no further. That was their sentence for having defied the Valar - they never got to go home.

[@mrsamaritan6881]

There are no "Dark Elves" there was one "a" Dark Elf (Eöl, the Dark Elf, father of Maeglin). You're thinking of the Grey Elves or Twilight Elves.

[@anni.68]

No. Only Thingol's Sindar were called Grey-elves, but they, too, were Dark-elves.

[@aliveandwellinisrael2507]

They're in The Rings of Power lol

[@user-bl7em8sx6o]

We don't speak of the vomit here

[@anni.68]

Elrond, Arwen, Thranduil, Legolas, Haldir, Celeborn, Gil-galad and Cirdan are all Dark Elves. The only Light Elves in Rings of Power are Galadriel and Celebrimbor. In Lord of the Rings only Galadriel.

[@pippinisawesome52]

FIRST! Yay finally!

[@Tallacus]

Whoa...you can't call them "Dark" elves anymore I think that's offensive to DEI

[@bullrun2772]

Wouldn’t just help them dumbass 😂 like that black elf in rings of power is an dark elf basically

[@TarMody]

If the series included these dark elves in Rhûn and Istar in the scenario and included them in the events, do you think it would be criticized in terms of adaptation? I think it would. Because lore conservatives like you are not being fair to the series.

[@deepmines]

i like your videos but Enchanted Basement video are a bit better

[@TomLaios]

They all grew rabbit ears?

[@massacolonel5950]

Elrond is not a Dark Elf. His Elven ancestors are Elu Thingol, and the Noldori House of Fingolfin, making him a High Elf. Ancestry is what makes one of either the Calaquendi or Moriquendi. Elrond and Gil Galad were the strongest Elves in Middle Earth during the Second Age, due to their Noldori ancestry. It didn’t matter that they didn’t see the light of the Two Trees. They inherited their ancestors’ strength and power. By the way Idril and Tuor never saw the light of the trees because Morgoth had already killed them.

[@MenoftheWest]

That is a fair argument based in lore and ancestry, but by the definition and light and dark elves, the only true light elves are those that saw the light of the Two Trees, while all others are technically dark elves.

[@massacolonel5950]

@@MenoftheWest I thought that Bloodlines made the difference too. I assumed that being a high Elf was genetic The Noldor born in Middle Earth are stronger and more powerful than the any of the Avari. Clearly the Noldor born in Middle Earth inherited their ancestors strength and power. Elrond could unleash Tsunamis from his river. Gil Galad scored wounds against Sauron. None of the Avari ever came close to that.

[@istari0]

@@massacolonel5950 The Noldor were more advanced than the Elves that remained in Middle-Earth due to all they learned from the Valar. While Elves such as Elrond and Gil-Galad may well have benefited from their ancestry on a "genetic" level, they also were leaders of much more powerful kingdoms.

[@nox5555]

@@MenoftheWest Elrond is more Men than Elf(he has some Maia blood) and he was one of the few who were allowed to choose. he just doesnt fit any definition.

[@Alex-s-m2p]

​@@nox5555Actually Elrond and his twin Brother Elros had more Elven lineage than Mortal Men.