Why Didn't the Elves do More in the LOTR? Middle-earth Explained

[@wulozhero6684]

The time of the Elves has passed, men will decide the fate of Middle Earth.

[@crazykids2004]

Very true

[@JrobAlmighty]

Interesting. Why? Lol that doesn't resolve anything. Not really. That's just an extra step.

[@psychkosys]

That's a cop out 😂

[@AverageCommentor]

@@psychkosys. Nah, since it's why like almost all the Elves were in Valinor, with the only major populations of Elves in Middle-earth being in Mirkwood and Lothlorien by the End of the Third Age. Both of which were near to each other and so were all affected by the same attack by the orcs, preventing them from helping the Dwarves in the North or the Men in the South. You could ask the same question about the Men. Why didn't they help the Elves? Because they had their own wars to fight.

[@ImperatorPenguin]

As I said before, the Elves were stuck fighting against Sauron's forces in the North, and they didn't have enough manpower to lend direct aid to the South, in addition to fighting in their own lands. And the Elves returning to Valinor goes without saying.

[@nickschulte3915]

But Rivendell wasn’t fighting in the north.

[@ImperatorPenguin]

@@nickschulte3915 Rivendell was just one city and one of two or three Elven settlements in Eriador that I know of.

[@orrointhewise87]

"The time of the elves is over." The elves had their time; they shaped the world and fought against evil long before men were ever born. They needed to step aside for the most part in order for men to make their own way in the world. When a parent sees that a child needs help it's natural to want to help but ultimately they never learn their own way. Even when an older sibling sees the same test brought on to the younger ones, they let them forge their own way thru. In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn 😊

[@jackolantern147]

Great comment. I love that song.🎵

[@maxmercer1931]

Glorfindel is a special case. He returned from Aman... with super powers. To not use Glorfindel in the climax is truly bizarre. Why return if he wasn't going to the confrontation in Mordor?

[@dominushydra]

I NEVER liked Glorfindel as a character. It felt so.. weird for lack of a better word to have him around.

[@papalaz4444244]

I think this is one character that Tolkien would have been better ommitting. There is also some evidence it wasn't supposed to be the original, at one point. Exactly how powerful was he? Would one powerful Elf make that much difference? I don't know. If it's not supposed to be the original it makes a bit more sense IMO.

[@papalaz4444244]

"In later writings, Tolkien explored Glorfindel's backstory in various material relating to the First Age of Middle-earth. He worked out how both characters named Glorfindel could be one and the same, something not evident from the published version of The Lord of the Rings; the question has been debated by scholars. The incremental changes made to Glorfindel's character, most notably the introduction of the theme of reincarnation, as part of the ongoing development of Tolkien's legendarium have been analysed by scholars. "

[@dominushydra]

@@papalaz4444244 What made Glorfindel so special? If anybody to bring back why not.. oh I don't know..FINGOLFIN? OR FINROD? geez.. no just a random Gondolin soldier.

[@josephfisher426]

@@dominushydra The person coming back presumably needed to want to go... I believe that Fingolfin didn't want to go to Middle Earth in the first place; and Finrod did want to go, but one of the reasons he accompanied Beren was that he was tired of it.

[@timheanue]

I think the Elves had seen enough of war. So many had marched away in the Last Alliance, and not come home . That campaign had already been named "the Last Alliance", showing that the Elves knew that they would never march away to war again. Unless it was to defend their homes, the Elves could not go through that again. And during the war of the ring, it was the younger generation of Elves who left their homelands to fight. While Elrond and Thandruil did not leave their realms to fight, their sons (who to the best of our knowledge didn't fight in the Last Alliance) did.

[@TheEnrieb]

The Elves did their part to end Sauron in the last alliance of Elves and Men, but then big brain Isildur decided to ignore the advice of Elrond to cast the ring into the fire and end Sauron forever. Thank’s Isildur

[@freedom8480]

😆 Hilarious! 😂😂

[@rrgale55]

I still think the Elves and the Valor owed Men. It was celebimbor (I think) that helped create the rings. Therefore, it was the Elves that doomed middle earth to begin with. One might say that it was the Elves that recruited men to help undue what they messed up. Furthermore, the Elves had the Valor to help against Melkor. Why do men deserve less?

[@istari0]

Per Tolkien, no one would have actually been able to cast the throw the ring into Orodruin. Even Frodo in the end could not do that.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

The Last Alliance against Sauron in the 2nd age was the Elves last stand against Morgoth and Sauron. Men were the leaders after in the 3rd age and dominant in the Fourth Age. Eru's children were completing the task of the first born.

[@logansfury]

Only having watched into a minute of this, my immediate reaction to the title of the video must be that the elves were almost spent. They spend the second age losing battle after brutal battle against Morgoth/Melkor until the Valar finally arrive upon Beleriand to take Melkor and put an end to his dominion. The elves were so diminished by death in the War of the Jewels, and furthermore by the vast number that took the Valor's pardon and returned to the Undying Lands, that they didn't even maintain the High Kingship and none wore the crown after Gil-Galad. They were reduced, diminished, scattered, and chose such havens as they could find or augment with what magic they had into the preservation of memory. Elrond clearly said Rivendell did not have the might to withstand and assault by Sauron. Only such supreme elves as the members of the White Council did heroic acts on their own or in small groups without the aid of armies. Now to watch the video and see if our opinions on this match :D

[@yodaslovetoy]

Morgoth/melkor was locked up at the end of the first age

[@logansfury]

@@yodaslovetoy Good Call, I meant to type first age in reference to the Morgoth wars, but marijuana is a hell of a drug.

[@starkilr101]

“Your kinsmen may not need to March to war. I fear war marches on their lands as well”

[@user-ks5cg5cd7m]

One major themes of TLOTR was that meekness defeats arrogance. The elves were not naturally meek. I think finally they themselves had to realize the limits of their own power and so chose to stay away unless it was to aid the meek. All other points about letting the other peoples of Middle Earth take charge and their own diminished numbers are really good, too. Tolkien doesn’t spell it out for us directly, but his writing gives hints of all these things. I wonder if it was subconsciously done on his part. I did not read his personal writings so I cannot say exactly, but sometimes I do wonder if, as he wrote his fiction, his philosophy and feelings came out without him even realizing it in terms of thesis.

[@Yesica1993]

Of all the things I love about Tolkien's writings, it's that individuals and groups have their roles to play in the world. While people make their choices, whether good or evil, and are accountable for them, it also seems that there is a grander purpose going on behind the scenes. Something (or someone) behind it all. This is the way the real world works. The biblical God is real. We can deny Jesus Christ all we want. But we still live in HIs world. Everything and everyone is carrying out His ultimate purposes. Life is not meaningless. Neither is it only made up of whatever individual meaning we can scrape out, each person for themselves. His purposes are good. Ultimately, they - HE - will prevail.

[@Aequitas_RJ]

Many talk about the elves as if they were meant to leave Middle Earth, but they often forget that the eldar were born IN Middle Earth; not even in Valinor, the far east reaches of the world. Elves and men are both the children of Iluvatar, so they were meant to be together; to live side by side and learn from one another. Elves believed that their immortal lives afforded them the chance to learn everything there is to life, but they can only see through unchanging and unaging eyes. Men saw the world a very different way and though the elves felt the loss of every human they once grew to love like siblings, they should have stayed in Middle Earth instead of taking heed of the Valars' summons. The Valar will one day come to see their actions with the elves and their avoidance of interaction with humans as their greatest mistake, even moreso than the release of Melkor, for one day humans will be gone and all they have to teach along with them. 3:00 HOLY SH!T, THAT ELF HAS A GIANT HAND WITH 6 FINGERS!!!

[@whiteknightcat]

Elves may be naturally immortal and powerful, but they were not the League of Superfriends. They were still subject to the same shortcomings and weaknesses as other beings, both in terms of character and physically. Also, as the song says, there is a season for all things under heav'n. Ages come and ages go, as do those who live through those ages. The Elves knew their time was at an and, that it was time for the dominion of Men, that they must fade away as their part in the story of the world drew to a close. So very simply, there were too few of them left by the end of Third Age, and they were not godlike in power. Time to pass the baton.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

It seems to be a common thing that people misunderstand how much the elves did. They fought well in the north all while laying the bedrock of the age of men in but a few meetings with key people. Given the age and wisdom their greatest would have had they would surely have known the sheer impact the right idea presented to the right person at the right time would have. And they did this while essentially leaving in droves towards the west. Their time was indeed over but they would play their final part very well. And really that's what the young need most from the old, not power or wealth, but wisdom and knowledge.

[@daniels7907]

The same question applies to the Istari. Five Maiar ought to have been enough to steamroll Sauron *if* they were allowed to use their full powers against him. But they weren't. The same restriction may have been imposed by the Valar, or even Eru Iluvatar, upon the Eldar. By this point the call to sail West was more than just sea longing. It had become a mandate. The Time of Men was dawning and the Elves were supposed to vacate Middle-earth. Especially since at least as many Men served Sauron as opposed him, the Valar (or Eru) might not have seen it the place of the Ainur or the Eldar to decide the matter on behalf of Men.

[@johnrazler8394]

I think you forgot about Elrond's sons, who did go to war in the Grey Company of rangers from the north.

[@iraklhspetsas5536]

I feel like another reason elves didn't join the men in the fight against sauron is that with the raw strength of elves like Galadriel, Glorfindel, Elrond etc Sauron would be more careful. The victory is achieved because Sauron is too arrogant, so he believes that his armies will easily destroy the men thus he proceeds to empty his lands leaving empty space for Frodo to destroy the ring. If these strong elves took part in the fight he would probably keep a lot of the orcs as a back up which could jeopardize the secrecy of the destruction of the ring

[@robertcoplin2830]

I mostly agree. My take is that their numbers were diminishing. If you consider that the power of the Elves was supported by their numbers, then that may have been a reason. Also I recall that it has been suggested that the reason that Glorfindel did not joint the Fellowship was because his personal power would grabbed Sauron's attention pretty quickly. So with Elrond and Galadriel. I do wonder why some attempts at misdirection weren't pursued, excepting Aragorn's use of the Palantir and the march on Mordor's gate. The covert approach was the best method they had at hand.

[@Mysteryof89]

I also want to add a point regarding the elves wanted secrecy towards the ring. I feel like the threat of escalation could have been a factor too. Mind you im going by the movies but Gandalf had said Sauron had seen how the men werent as weak willed as he thought during helms deep, which is why he was going to target Minis Turoth next. If the elves had joined in even before helms deep, I believe Sauron and Saurumon would have created even bigger armies in timely manner and even more horrendous atrocities could happen at more fronts and possibly even stop the fellowship from getting far.

[@simonmorris4226]

They were following Gandalf’s strategy of forcing Sauron to focus on several different areas outside and far away from Orodruin. The dwarves and men were drawing his attention and forces to Dale and the Lonely Mountain. The elves of Lothlorien and Mirkwood were drawing his attention to his fortress of Dol Guldur. The men of Gondor were drawing his attention to the Black Gate. Although not Canonical I suspect the elves of Rivendell were facing the orcs of Gundabad.

[@bayarsejar5831]

It was said that after the battle of the five armies destroyed 3/4 of their population and was crippled completely

[@neilbakshi7365]

I think it was three things that worked together and cannot really be separated: 1. They weren't all that concerned about other peoples, and were disenchanted with Middle-Earth anyway; 2. Their lives were too precious to waste, having been depleted by the wars of the First and Second Ages and being overwhelmingly past their child-rearing years; and 3. They weren't convinced the war would succeed, and were better off hiding or sailing away. I think we always need to remember the big picture in Tolkien's writing, and in this case it's that LOTR was written from the perspective of Hobbits (and humans) to whom the elves were mysterious and otherworldly. The more you see of someone, the less mysterious they are. (Case in point: Sauron may be the only villain in all of literature whose appearance is never described.)

[@DD-fj2ut]

By the LOTR there were not as many elves left. That is how I considered this question.

[@saladinbob]

There are two questions contained within the title of this video, and only from a lore perspective has it been attempted to answer. But why didn't the Elves do more in LoTR from a literary sense? Because narratively it wouldn't have made sense. The story is about struggle, how not all heroes are the greatest warriors of their time, and how strength can be found in the smallest of places. These themes would be undermined if the Elves went to war en masse, their message would be lost.

[@nickschulte3915]

I feel like this video was made specifically for me. As I have been critical of the elves, mostly Rivendell since first reading the book. (It’s why I love the elves showing up at Helms Deep in the movie, even though it’s so wildly inaccurate). I think the most honest answer is that is was an over site by Tolkien. To, at the very least, not said Glorfindel either with the Grey Company, or state that he took a company of elves from Rivendell to Lothlorien.

[@eolaspellor1718]

Early on in LotR, Sam says that the Elves are sailing into the West and not returning. The First night Frodo leaves Bag End, they encounter a troop of Elves heading to the Grey Havens. The time of the Elves was ending, and they all knew it. Rousing themselves to go to war might be what we want, but may well have been beyond them at that point.

[@ethanwelch3235]

I feel like the power and influence of the Elves was almost spent by the time of the LOTR. In fact they were seen as mere legend by some folk of Middle Earth like the Hobbits. Their glory days were in the early ages of the world fighting against Morgoth and his forces. It was time for the age of Men to begin by the end of the Third Age.

[@ghostdreamer7272]

Rivendell were also sparsely populated, and could have also been under guard and wary of an attack (like Lothlorien and Mirkwood) and remained defensive. Elrond already know long he’s done what he could best with the fellowship. Rivendell was never a proper nation either.

[@theBlankScroll]

If I was immortal id have three main goals: don't die, don't become catastrophically injured, and don't get stuck/buried alive Seems like being immortal but not invulnerable would naturally lead to risk averse, aloof, and self involved people. every risk has to be measured against an infinite future.

[@catherinewhite2943]

I always thought there were simply too few left to make a big unified stand. Rivendell was attacked. Lothlorien was attacked. Mirkwood was attacked. (See appendices.) Cirdan had to hold the passages of the sea open to the last. None of those leaders had the personnel to send a large force. Plus all the additional reasons you listed.

[@Halbared]

The elves were wise, they knew that fighting wasn't all done in swords. Having said that the elf power bases did their share in Imladris, Mirkwood and Lothlorein. Think about what happened in Shire, with Sharkey. Elrond and others 'sat at home' so others had homes to go to. No elf could match Sauron and any heroic feat Elrond, Glorfindel or other could do on the battlefield would be pointless, their physical form would die and they'd return to Aman, and so what if they'd kill 100, 1,000 or more orcs and trolls? Sauron in front of the black gates alone at 80,000+ troops, and he had thousands elsewhere spread across the world. The elf strength was in their wisdom, they'd seen it all before. No single thing at the black gates would have helped more than the simple act of having Isildur's's heir there. No Glorifndel or Galadriel. They did their bit.

[@risteard11]

The elves were diminished and the answer was given by Elrond himself at the Council of Elrond. None of the elven realms were strong enough to stand against Sauron either alone or together. Elrond: “I have not the strength and neither do they”.

[@jonystyles9473]

Bro u should have stated with the question: why didnt the Elves helped since Men helped them survive in the First and Second Age? its like a debt that they should have repayed...some of our main characters and specially in the Simallirion wouldnt be alive if it wasnt for the Edain... thats the real question, there were still lots of Elves in ME at the time to help they just chose not to... also if im not mistaken the twins sons of Elrond helped ;)

[@paulwagner688]

I know there's writings from either JRR or Christopher Tolkien on this subject. It even specifically mentions that Legolas accomplished the "least" of the Fellowship, and that the Great Figures were present only as mentors and advisers and counsellors. And the Fading has much to do with it, as you suggest.

[@origami83]

I imagined the elves in murkwood and lothlorien were fighting to keep their lands safe, but the other elves could have sent aid to gondor imo. A leader such as glorfindel would have made alot of difference to counter the Nazgul or the madness that befell Denethor and he would distract Sauron even more from the ringbearer. In this same vein i always pictured it would be awesome if the ents bolstered the defences of Gondor after the fall of saruman.

[@randomelite4562]

There were too few elves in the other lands to have made any difference, and what elves there were weren’t warriors.

[@origami83]

@@randomelite4562 Even a few like Glorfindel or Elrond himself could have made a huge difference in the defense of Gondor. To inspire the troops, counter the nazgul, assist or take over from Denethor once he goes mad. They were doing nothing useful in Rivendell anyway.

[@Darth_Traitorous]

Because they were fighting a combination army of northern orcs and eastern humans. It did not just affect the elves though the rebuilt city of Dale, Laketown and Erebor were also attacked as well.

[@CONTINGENCY_sys]

I have always felt that it is not a matter of doing more actively directly, but doing more in support of required activities by other hands. Elven people measure actions over a grander measure of time, as their lives extend over such a range. Their deeds done today, as their vision of impact, may not show its full value until much later in measure of time to others. To them 100 years was yesterday, before breakfast. It isn't that they have not done, its that they have and had done. They too have limits and I have always thought that over time their defiance would measure direct impact and spotlight those sharing their spaces and worlds to elevate them too as people akin to the elves. They in all their knowledge and lifespan would have at least thought that they are not alone in the worldspace. It is not just them that needs to impact the world, nor feel great deeds upon themselves. They had to realize that they would not be there forever, even in their lifespans of forever, and that which remains needed to be able to handle and approach the indifferences and setbacks of the world on their own instead of always passing the problems along, looking to others for salvation and safety, or allowing things to go unchecked unwilling or unable to respond. Most activities that the elves appeared to have been doing less or no action against when they could have easily crushed such opposition is actually quite complex. Could they rid their lands, yes, but why. That is only part of the whole. They knew as did others the real problem has yet to come. Even then they knew a larger shadow was looming. "I will not part with a single coin" good ol Smaug could also be in reflection of others "not one life lost for naught". If by some chance they acted by heroic deed and ended that evil, there is a chance that the next evil would come when they are at their weakest or less became even more in relation to the others of the worldspace. They too had to measure time. Across the ages I think time to them started to take on greater a toll, as even then the "gift of men" takes onto it a greater reward. The passing of the torch for a much needed rest. Until evil once again requires equal measures of defiance. Not that Sauron was any less or much more, no, it was simply not up to them to resolve directly. In order to unify the humanity of the world, weight had to shift heroic power in different ways. It seemed that the elves were finding their powers of unlimitedness becoming more limited and exhausting. Not to say they didn't help in ways that directly impacted deeds of future events that most likely had already been forseen by them as being in need of outside assistance. So many pieces in motion that by one hand or another is connected in many ways across the peoples of Middle-Earth. Others need heroic moments as well, their reward was seeing themselves in others, and their success and rise as a people too. Middle-Earth isn't about the elves, but the peoples of Middle-Earth and all the creations of and with it. I feel they sacrificed and assisted plenty and their patience and leadership in support of others was just as cool as them showing what they too can do alone. Alone is good, together is great.

[@CONTINGENCY_sys]

It fun to look at events in that measure. Father fails, its up to the son, or their sons to correct that mistake. That passing on of responsibility and that promise of heroism. That spotlight moment. "For Frodo" "Run you fools" "That still only counts as one" "Fool of a took" There are lines with less that carry with them more weight than pages must be taken to explain. The balance of peace is always on the edge of a sword, but by which edge and what sword(s) only time can tell.

[@istari0]

I don't see this as a complicated question. The Elves scarcely had enough to defend what lands they had left, even with the likes of Galadriel. They were under assault and would have fallen if the One Ring had not been destroyed. As far as the Elves at Imladris and Mithlond went, the most logical explanation in my mind is that they were aiding the Elves of Mirkwood and possibly Lothlórien as well. I believe it was Gandalf who commented on what they might have found in the north had not its defenders, Elves, Dwarves, and Men fought so hard against Sauron's northern armies. I do have to admit I would have liked to have read about Glorfindel accompanying the Grey Company, Elladan, and Elrohir when they went south and have him participate in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the Battle of the Morannon.

[@bayarsejar5831]

Didn’t lothlorien counter attack them and absolutely destroy dol guldur before it.

[@istari0]

@@bayarsejar5831 The Elves destroyed Dol Guldur after the destruction of the One Ring and the fall of Barad-dûr.

[@dontigroni145]

Video idea: What will happen if Gollum takes the ring from Frodo while they are sleeping? I have a theory and I would really like you to do it if you have the chance to see this video clip to see if my theory is true. Greetings from Bulgaria (I am a big fan of yours) 😀

[@tinyspeaker]

I vote for this

[@geviesanta3631]

Tbh, it was inevitable that the elves' time were about to be up even as the events of LOTR begins. Especially when considering the interactions that the Hobbits Frodo and Sam had with the elves, when they were traveling in the woods after leaving the shire to start their journey.

[@rrgale55]

Thanks for doing this video. It didnt answer all my questions but it certainly was a step in the right direction. Well done!!❤

[@daniell1483]

I reject this idea that "Sauron was a test" for humans. Before the events of LoTR, Sauron had been active for a long time and caused great suffering to people who were unable to oppose him. We don't have an exact body count, but Sauron has to be responsible for at least 10s of thousands of deaths, to say nothing of people wounded or traumatized by Sauron's real supernatural evil. To buy this line, you have to say that Arnor was purely a bloody sacrifice to "test the humans". That the subjugation of the Easterlings were also part of the "test". That the War of the Ring itself was part of this "test the humans" philosophy. That just does not make sense. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Most of the elves and all the Valar are the metaphorical "good men" doing nothing.

[@mr_yoru5834]

I don't think it's a test as much as it is a statement of fact: if Men are to inherit the land, then they must be the ones to lead the charge in defending it.

[@turdferguson9356]

the time of the Elder Children had passed, it was not their world to mold anymore

[@Crushnaut]

Elves: Oh no, that guy with the ring is back after we told you to destroy the ring... oh no Men: He is coming for you too Elves exit stage west.

[@abhijitpawar1568]

Great Video! Another question I had was: why didn't the Istari, particularly Gandalf play a more active role in the affairs of Middle Earth early on in the Third Age? Many great calamites might have been presented if they had played a more active role early on.

[@wilhelmrk]

Because they would have turned into great lords of Men and Elves out of a wish to do good. Then they would slowly stray from their task like Saruman did

[@legomaster9190]

I feel like this day and age is plagued with so many challenges and things to overcome. While I was listening to this video, some things may have fallen into place in my mind. I really liked the way you phrased the thing about others (basically the mentor character) and how they can help us through our struggles. They can give us words of wisdom (like Gandalf or Elrond), they can aid us in our struggles and fights (like Aragorn and Boromir), they can make us laugh with them and forget our sorrows for a while (like Legolas and Gimli, or Merry and Pippin).. Or they can simply be there for us, be our friends (I don't even know who to choose for this one, maybe Faramir or the Hobbits??). But they can't win our struggles, challenges and fights for us. That task falls on our shoulders. It's interesting how listening (or watching) these clips from Middle-Earth can bring forth so many thoughts and ideas. It truly is a tale that doesn't age. And, in a sense, it doesn't end, neither. Thanks for explaining this point from the legendarium! Can't wait for the next one!

[@maylabrown4584]

It is weird that they fought for so many years for Middle-Earth and when the chance to finally put an end to evil for good, when it was the FINAL battle that they'd surely all die in if it wasn't for Frodo and Sam. It should have been ALL Races, Elves and Dwarves to Men and Hobbits and even Ents and Eagles there to confront Sauron and finally put an end to his evil.

[@timw483]

It seems clear from the book that the elves were leaving ME fairly rapidly so I'm guessing the only elf-haven with sizeable numbers still left was Lorien, and they were busy with Morgul. As for Elrond, he knew and in fact insisted that this was Aragorn's fight as part of the bride-price for Arwen. On a separate note, I have a What-If scenario for you to think about: What if Rohan's army got to Minas Tirith before it had been surrounded, as Denethor had wished. How might the battle have been different?

[@taWay21]

Narratively it just makes sense for the elves to take a step back, but if were taking things literally, guys like Glorfindel should've at least been at the siege of the Black Gate, Helms Deep or Pelinor Fields, not just chilling at Rivendel sipping wine.

[@fireluvr]

For Frodo!!

[@doominator4072]

Same could be said for the Dwarves, I mean why didn’t the dwarves do more? I’d love to know why ( possibly a future video you could do)

[@Raggmopp-xl7yf]

Well, it had been over 10K years of almost constant war, so I imagine they were TIRED. And lest we forget they had been steadily leaving through the 2nd and 3rd ages. When the 4th rolled around (the Age of Men) they were pretty much, "Yeah, I'm out," and left for Aman. I imagine the Avary and Green elves might have stuck it out, but for the most part they knew their time was over and left.

[@gun_hound]

I really believe they knew their time was over and they needed to free people to look to men like Aragorn for leadership and elves like Galadriel would have overshadowed any man.

[@stoner36s]

Having just finished The Complete History of Middle-Earth, it was my impression that the elves number left in Arda were too small to combat the attacks on the Elven realms and send additional aid to Gondor/other realm of men or dwarf.

[@joshkellemen5931]

Sons of elrond go down with the grey company. Elrond and glorfondel are protecting arwen and are also there in case the orcs of misty mountains come west vs journey east to lonely mountain, anc lorien elves all needed in case a nazgul comes north to assault them, remember, sauron had sufficient orcish horses to assault 3 times lorien and it was only galadriel who had the power to cast down the tower of dol gudor

[@mrslag1274]

To me the answer is simple. There is no record of the elves multiplying after the first age. Especially the noldor. They had no birth rate. They couldn’t replace anyone that was lost. They chose to risk no more deaths.

[@haberak3310]

Even by the Second Age, the elves were diminishing in their power. During the wars with Sauron, the Elven kingdoms were consistently on the back foot until Numenorian involvement. At that point, they were still a great power in comparison to where they were by the end of the third age. Of the elven societies we know of, only Mirkwood was likely large enough to really contribute to the war effort, and it had to fight on two fronts. Lothlorien likely just the size of a single city-state, and had put the bulk of whatever forces it had available to the Mirkwood theater with whatever remained in the Golden Wood needing to stay there in the event there's an attack from elsewhere, like the south or Moria. Rivendell is a singular household, whatever power was there would be needed in the event Sauron or Saruman made a proper move into the north. And as far as the far western settlements, they likely had to put more focus on defending against piracy and keep the seas open for those elves that were already headed west for years before the war even began. All of the great elves were likely needed in their own homes by their own people more than elsewhere, they simply lacked any capability to project power.

[@haberak3310]

And as an aside, I do want to mention this: in the Fellowship, Elrond and Glorfindel, two of the most powerful elves, are only able to stave off the Nazgul, not properly defeat them. In Return of the King, Merry and Eowyn, a mere woman and hobbit, outright kill the Witch King, the most powerful of the Nazgul. Maybe men simply were capable enough without the help of the elves. They may not have been as flashy, but they got the job done.

[@MoreisMor]

It makes sense to me. Like you say, when the elves are preparing to leave the world, they'd be doing a disservice to the heirs of Arda to bear their burden for them. Then how would they ever know they'd be leaving it in good hands? And if that's too cold, they'd have known Iluvatar would have tired of Sauron's tirade of death and destruction and intervened, eventually. It's supposed to happen in the final war of Arda anyway. So one way or another, it all turns out all right.

[@cranos888]

The Sons of Elrond participated in the South

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

"The power of the Three Rings is ended. The time has come... for the dominion of Men." -- Galadriel

[@Badboyben1422]

It seems, at least to me that it was human nature of the Elves to have their own thoughts on what they wanted to do. It was said by Elrond that uniting all the Elves under the banner would only arouse the power of Morder, and Galadriel comments about the Long Defeat. Most Elves left Middle Earth, I think truly out of cowardice not wanting to suffer, when they can choose to escape such perils and sail to paradise. Logically they should've done more to help in the War of the Ring. I know that Thranduil and Celeborn and Galadriel fend off the assaults of Dol Guldor, but that was more of defending themselves, rather than truly attacking and destroying the enemy. But like you said , what about Rivendell, Mthlond and Lindon? The War was truly in the East of the Misty Mountains and the West was in no way under any real threat. Same as I think the Dwarves of Middle Earth could've also done more to help. The only mention we get is the Battle of Dale and the Siege of Erebor, but what about the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains, of Thorin's Halls and other parts of the world? They came together hastily enough for the vengeance of Thror, I'm sure for the sake of Dain, or even fore the sake of the entire world they would've gathered in arms. Also, saying that the Elves were testing Men to be able to hold back the darkness is kind of a stretch, I mean true Men have been holding back the darkness since they're awakening at the rising of the sun.

[@lamyarian9550]

Because the Last Alliance between Elves and Man ended at the second Age and that the Third Age was always the Men's age in Tolkien's world

[@theGhoulman]

I'm sry, but my understanding is that the elves, by the time Frodo became ring bearer, were assaulted at their strongholds at the same time the assault on Minus Tirith happened, Lothlorien and Rivendell. And yea, there weren't many of them left. And why would anyone expect the leaders of these strongholds, Elrond and Galadriel, to go adventuring with Gandalf or something? imho :)

[@MerkhVision]

My thought is that the wise leaders of the elves had thought about how they had long fought fire with fire, might with might, trying to oppose Sauron militarily, and even seemingly defeated him at the end of the Second Age only for it to all have been for naught since he returned and got back to conquering all over again, and realized that their approach was the wrong one. They may have decided to instead go about things the way the Valar had instructed Gandalf, to support the Free Peoples, but not to try to directly match Sauron’s violence and power with their own violence and power.

[@crazykids2004]

I would have to say if the powerful players of the elves came to fight then sauron would awaken more thing's the fading of their power and people probably have large impact but also wanting to sail to valinor if Elron,Galadreal and her husband,and Thrandule went and fought against him then things would have gone differently amazing video as always I can't wait for the next one but a side thought they knew they couldn't be here forever and knew eventually man would decide what would happen in middle Earth

[@markusrobinson3858]

Most of the time, I concur heartily with the analysis you advance. Not this time. Among the key points you miss is the relationship between the elves and the three rings; two of which are worn by Elrond and Galadriel, and the third which is given to Gandalf. Those rings have to be kept hidden from Sauron and as their holders point out, their purpose was not primarily warlike. Coupled with Elrond's own statement that "The time of the elves is over", the fact that the Elves have been leaving for the undying lands for a considerable time before the events of the Lord of the Rings begin, and it is clear that Tolkien has posited that this round of fighting requires other forces to take the lead battle role in the war against Sauron. Frankly what is left in middle earth of the Elves of old; a community of elves in Rivendell that live in a small valley. (Nowhere does Tolkien give any indication that Last Homely House is surrounded by some great city teaming with elves.) Same goes for Lothlorien; a smallish forest with one primary city on a hill, At best that city is a medium size one; not a New York City or equivalent. The Elves of Mirkwood live in a single underground fortress. None of these descriptions give any sense that the population of Elves in Middle Earth is gigantic; on the contrary. To assert that gee whiz, Elrond, Galadriel, and Thurandual, each the leader of their people should go out and do personal battle against Sauron, or lead their modest hosts to the Black Gates is preposterous. Although the two sons of Elrond travel with the Dunedain to the succor of Aragorn. And yet they DO lead their peoples against the forces of Sauron that are attacking their lands. Finally, the forces of mankind are not as strong as they were in the First Age either. In effect, the whole premise of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, is that small individuals can have as potent an effect upon world events as giant armies, if they operate at the fulcrum. There is no big mystery or conundrum here that needs resolution.

[@numenos3218]

I never understood why Glorfindel was sent back by the Valar to ME if he was just going to hang around in Rivendell. Seems like just a waste

[@lesleywoodroffe3037]

His help at the ford made it worthwhile - the ring would have been lost if Frodo hadnt made it

[@ladyalaina42]

His presence there kept it safe. He was as strong as a Maiar and over the centuries had lead elven army's to protect ME.

[@T007rex]

Perhaps the elves were wary of helping men since isildur betrayed them in the previous war.

[@lesleywoodroffe3037]

Thoughtful answers to what I have wondered for decades! Maybe it was time for Men to rise to the challenge, the Elves were leaving anyway but gave what aid they could - and it was considerable - the phial of light that Sam used to vanquish Shelob, the lembas bread, - the flight to the ford would have ended it right there if not for Glorfindel!

[@Halbared]

I like that first portrait of Elrond, it doesn't have that those stupid vulcan/pixie ears millennial artists always stick in elves.

[@federicaesu8580]

I think that we can find the answer to this question from the words of Elrond: “ “. The Elves have seen too many wars and have understood that evil cannot be rooted out because Arda is marred. The Elves were aware that they were fading and had no more the strength to keep evil at bay. They felt in their mind and in their heart that their part in the fate of Middle Earth was over

[@ladyalaina42]

They knew at this point men had to do it themselves. Stand alone.

[@theemissary1313]

Reading the appendices of the books, it feels like an analogy for this question is that the fellowship was like a group of spies trying to get from Spain to Guam across Asia during WW2.

[@richard8176]

A question about Sauron. How did he fill his day? What food did he eat? When he, the 9 Nazgûl, and The Mouth of Sauron were all at home, who did the cooking? Did they play games in the evenings?

[@stephenleggett4243]

Legolas, Elladan and Elrohir all fought at the Battle of Pelennor Fields and though all were great warriors who accomplished great deeds in there own right, did any of them especially outshine the deeds of there mortal allies? Gimli out killed Legolas at Helms Deep for a case in point. Of the however many Elves left in Middle Earth, clearly some contained far greater powers, but how many others would have? Surely Legolas would have been among the most capable of the Wood Elves left, for example? I get the impression it did not take to long after the fall of Sauron, for most of the Elves to have left Middle Earth, and with the boats never returning from those that went, the turnover of new vessels to take the Elves home can't be that high, seemingly a reasonably steady stream of these Elves, with the comment on Bilbo and Frodo meeting with some on there way. This suggests to me that there really can't have been many Elves left to go, though I have nothing substantial to back that up.

[@mazzarouni5608]

Why would you fight and lose your immortality and miss the journey to the Undying Lands. Also, the Elves were pretty spent too. They had been fighting Morgoth and Sauron for literally thousands of years.

[@therakshasan8547]

The elves had been leaving Middle Earth at the end of the Second Age . It was the time of Mortal man . The rings were still tied to the one so they could not leave until it was destroyed . . But their numbers were too few to be more than a sacrifice .

[@Sportsfilmappreciator]

The part I’ve had a problem with, specifically in the valar absence against Sauron, was that it was Eonwe who summoned Sauron to Valinor, who fled. And that’s it? From a storytelling perspective, why not send a Maiar to do more BECAUSE they summoned him in the first place?

[@Qbliviens]

Considering Tolkien was a devout catholic it kinda makes sense bringing one of the biggest themes of christianity into his works, that being that god seldom interferes with things directly but wants men to solve their problems alone with just a little help of him.

[@Pumpkin.queen.666]

And the thing I don’t see a lot of people addressing is as wonderful as these books are they are not flawless and as much as we love them there are some things that don’t make sense as well as outright plot holes. Having faults doesn’t necessarily make a story bad or less lovable. That’s just something you have to accept being in this fandom.

[@miaththered]

Hilariously I've never used chekov's gun. I can excuse the Galadhrim and Thranduil's people, even Elrond. What the hell is Cirdan's excuse is my preponderance.

[@MerkhVision]

Cirdan’s excuse is that he had to stay at the coast to prepare the ships for any elves who wanted to Sail West. He had a very important task.

[@Vimpari]

Hey, can you make a video What if Bilbo had been chosen as a ringbearer in Rivendell, instead of Frodo? I've been thinking this for sometime now, what if Bilbo, and not Frodo. How would've the fellowship go and end, would the ring been destroyed?

[@mckster56]

Love your work

[@morriganrenfield8240]

Them not interfering due to giving man a trial i actually could see. ESPECIALLY as a fair few elves detest man.

[@kreuzrittergottes9336]

i fail to see any problem and only people who havnt read the books and therefore do not understand the material have a problem with it; its specifically discussed in the lore as to why they werent helping directly.

[@upschutt4842]

I always wondered about this

[@Kegel_Destroyer]

I'm new the the LOTR. Were the dwarves wiped out? I don't understand why the dwarves didn't help at all as well.

[@bettamom7593]

That was great thank you!

[@samlivingston4130]

The Elves and Dunedain of Arnor were greatly depleted by the end of the War of the Last Alliance. While Gondor would long endure and grow in its splendor, Arnor would never recover and would eventually fracture and fall. We know the Elves of Lorien lost half their force in the Battle of Dagorlad, and those of Greenwood lost two thirds of their forces. Tens of thousands of surviving Elves likely left Gil-Galad's realm in the early Third Age.

[@denislemenoir]

Great video! Here’s another interesting related question - could the 3rd age elves have defeated Sauron if men somehow didn’t help or weren’t there. Perhaps some kind of disease knocks them out of action. Without men, would elves rise to the occasion? If they couldn’t win, then is there an inconstancy is the incredible power of 1st age elven armies who took on Morgoth without really needing men much at all.

[@coolbrotherf127]

I think that the Elves did plenty in the first and second age, they needed to make sure the men could handle things after they left for the West. They were the main forces who defeated Melkor's armies after all, which no force of men lesser than the Numenorians would have hopped to have matched.

[@emiliostrange]

i find that tolkiens elves of the third age just like eriksens tiste andii showing a certain kind of detachment from the world around them that comes with being milennia old quite compelling and ... logical or even obvious :)

[@loekegaard9]

You talk about several interesting possibilities. Perhaps all are partly true. I think the main reason is that *Arda* itself had to defeat the Force of Darkness/the Dark Lord/Sauron. Meaning: it wouldn't have been _good enough_ if the Elves - the most powerful/ethereal beings on the side of Light/Eru Ilúvatar - had done it; it had to be done by the most 'down to Middle-Earth'/innocent beings of all: the Hobbits.

[@ericpouliot639]

I had always seen it as battle fatigue. The elves have fought for so long and lost so much. They lost the desire for war. Much like countries after the First World War did not want to fight in another war they let terrible things happen in the name of keeping the peace. They were willing to stand by and watch because they could no longer stomach such loss

[@TheLordUrban]

The elves were concerned primarily with safeguarding their last few refuges in Middle Earth. They knew they would last longer in a defensive war than an offensive war which could never achieve lasting victory.

[@baystated]

When someone at work is looking forward to retirement, you'll find them less helpful in improving the business regarding longterm plans. Or when you buy a home and find that the previous owner just let parts of it age dangerously because it was the "next owner's problem" Whether you care about other people or not, when you're eyeing the exit, the future for those left behind needs to tackled by them, to their priorities, with their strengths.

[@theMightywooosh]

Maybe the elves did more but it was off camera for budgetary reasons... There was something about the elves involved in other battles...that just wasn't the main focus of the book/movies... Not sure if it was covered in the main books or in some of the Tolkien tails

[@albmartinez314]

Would you ever do a video on Harad, Far-Harad, or Rhun?

[@claytonbarnett7084]

This is OT, but I don't know how to send you a direct message; apologies. About a week ago, a thought came to me: how did Isildur know the ring would make him invisible during the orc attack? My only guess is that he was playing with it in Minas Tirith while writing those notes Gandalf found 3k years later, slipped it on, and one of his servants came in with food and wine and was all, "My king? My king, where are you?" Otherwise, how did he know?

[@marionbaggins]

Man, the Elves were so powerful throughout the ages and did nothing in the War of the Ring, so Lazy!!! *JK* In all seriousness they probably realized their time was to move on!!! Thanks for another Great but Melancholy Video, released were you are my 23rd Birthday!!! Until What If Khazad-Dûm didn't fall...Marion Baggins preparing my Hobbit Hole for friends for my Birthday...Out!!!

[@himerosTheGod]

The elves were busy singing drinking & dancing with Eru.

[@davidwilliams5283]

Well, in the movie Halder helped out at Helm's Deep.

[@daniell1483]

This has been one of the biggest pet peeves I've had about not just the elves, but the Valar as well. They are supposed to be the guardians and protectors of Arda, the sources of all goodness and wisdom. If that is true, why do so little to fight an evil they should have taken care of long ago?

[@dominushydra]

After the shitshow of Numenor they scaled back operations almost completely.. i don't blame them

[@daniell1483]

@@dominushydra So, a good kingdom gets corrupted by an ancient evil (which the Valar could have handled easily but chose not to) which then does something very proud and foolish, which destroys the originally good kingdom but leaves the ancient evil to get off scot-free. That is so morally backwards I don't even know where to begin.

[@dominushydra]

@@daniell1483 I don't think you understand the gravity of GOD himself having to destroy the Valar's gift to Mankind and reshape the entire world.. after that I think The Valar rightly washed there hands of everything except in the most subtle of ways.