What happened to the PinePhone?

[@Delcolux]

Been daily driving my UBPorts edition pinephone for years (not with UBports though). Ran Manjaro Phosh for awhile then jumped to Mobian when they released Bookworm. Calls, SMS, MMS, LTE, wifi, web browsing, convergence, battery life all work fine for me. Yes it's slow performance, but my needs are rather minimal and it works for me.

[@TheTurnipKing]

I mean its a phone. How much CPU power should you really need?

[@thenoplanchannel]

Very cool! What carrier are you using to receive calls and data?

[@kelownatechkid]

Makes me appreciate webos even more, since that ran amazing even multitasking with less than a gig of ram back in 2009 lol

[@thenoplanchannel]

Haha! For sure! I would love to see WebOS on more devices

[@wrathofsocrus]

The lack of open video drivers for ARM devices will always be a huge hurdle for making a Linux phone with new hardware. I'm pretty sure Pine64 used that old chip because the reverse engineered drivers were mature enough to function. Since then things have gotten a bit better, but I don't believe there are any ARM chips less than a couple years old with drivers mature enough to compare to their Android counterparts. If AMD or Intel got their graphics in to a mobile ARM chip, or are able to get an x86 chip low enough power to work for more than a couple hours on a phone battery then that would be a game changer for mobile Linux. There just doesn't seem to be enough money there to make it worth their while. Perhaps with everyone wanting to AI 'all the things' then that could be an avenue for AMD or Intel to get a chip on a phone with open graphics drivers. I'm sure a lot more people would be developing Linux for phones if they had usable new hardware that doesn't need to be reverse engineered. The other issue is the cellular modem. It's basically the same situation as the graphics, except I don't believe there is any open hardware or software beyond using binary blobs and reverse engineering everything. There is probably even less monetary incentive for anyone to do this. Great video as always!

[@thenoplanchannel]

For sure! Closed drivers and reverse engineering can suck so much of the available development bandwidth that it makes it hard to even get to the nice "luxury" type features and all you do is play catchup instead of get ahead. There's also no major Linux company developing this or working with the hardware companies. If someone like RedHat, Canonical, Suse, Valve, etc got involved with Linux arm and mobile development, much of this would probably get much easier!

[@nickthaskater]

@@thenoplanchannel if only the Steam Deck used an ARM chip rather than x86...

[@alex15095]

Everybody thank Qualcomm for basically everything wrong with modern phones - phones that stop getting updates after a couple of years, no repair schematics, no open drivers, no open anything

[@hotdogdog4740]

​@@alex15095 How can I find out more about this? If Aaron Swartz was still alive, could things be different?

[@ColinXYZ]

@@nickthaskater Unfortunately I don't see this happening until they develop a compatibility layer for running x86 on ARM devices. Microsoft already has one on their ARM laptops, so it could happen one day.

[@TheTechspert]

Your channel is insanely underrated!! Jeep it up yall!

[@thenoplanchannel]

Thank you so much! Commenting helps a lot so we appreciate it!

[@knoptop]

some tech I'm glad I missed out on!😅Still, this was fun to learn about!

[@thenoplanchannel]

Haha! It's said to never buy first generations of tech... Sometimes that's definitely true. Still glad I bought these to play with them!

[@harney-barrow2036]

Pine64 and the wider Linux enthusiast space falls into the same trap that OpenMoko did, and arguably to an even stronger degree. Being able to use a phone as a 'convergence device' and run Gnome or KDE sounds neat, but when calling and texting aren't solidly stable, one ends up with a glorified tablet (or PDA in the case of OpenMoko). Still curious how the A64 board could be used to its full potential.

[@harney-barrow2036]

For all the mud I've flung at Android ROM developers enabling Google's continued enclosure of open source, there is still so much concentrated effort on microG and LineageOS and F-Droid so I have a degree of respect for them continuing to build on top of AOSP. Anyways I switched to KaiOS LOL

[@thenoplanchannel]

@@harney-barrow2036 Absolutely! There MUST be a focus on the main necessary functions of a Linux phone OS first and then build features on top of that. You must nail calls, SMS/MMS/RCS, hardware compatibility, and web browsing/web apps first and then everything else come after. If those main things are taken care of, I and MANY others could switch as a daily driver!

[@Reed-Publications]

I bought a PinePhone when it first came out, and unfortunately the experience was terrible. I desperately want a phone with enhanced privacy features, such as a switch for the camera and a removable battery, but sadly I don't think this is ever going to happen. Some companies have tried, buy none of the bigger companies will ever bring these features to the market.

[@thenoplanchannel]

Hardware does not seem to be the true problem currently. It's the software

[@thelakeman2538]

You can't really use latest hardware to build a device like the pinephone since from my understanding it's supposed to be fully open source, that's why they can't just build a phone with common off the shelf budget or mid range android smartphone components. And a linux phone not having an open source firmware will probably drive away the enthusiast developer/tinkerer crowd who are the only people who'd buy such a device, since why buy that device when you can achieve the same with some older pixel/oneplus/xiaomi device. As for the unlocking that oneplus device, carrier locked phones aren't a thing in my country, but aren't oneplus devices supposed to be super easy to unlock like google devices (just the standard usb debugging and fastboot command).

[@jojobobbubble5688]

Ya, it is definitely time for the Pine phone 2 and Pine Phone 2 Pro. Really, I'd love to see things work backwards at this stage. Instead of focusing on the phones I'd like to see a plethora of good Risc, Arm and x86 Tablets built for Linux. Not because I think tablets are the future but because it will allow developers and engineers to focus on getting the small portable form factor mastered so that when you add the phone bits back in you're only focusing on making the phone bits work at that stage, rather than an entire Ecosystem. I'd also love to see more companies get behind portable form factors. I'd love to see a System76 Tablet as well as other tablets from other manufacturers. Ultimately I think it will take a hardware vendor like System76 going head first into a tablet first, and a phone second to really bring a us a convergent future. I'd also love to see content focusing on this potential, and hopefully, inevitable future.

[@thenoplanchannel]

Very good point for sure. I feel like much of what lacks however is on the phone side, in terms of software. RCS, carrier support, call quality, etc. If the hardware was just faster and a little nicer, that would also fix a lot

[@scotts9898]

Pinephone 2 should be out in 2035 and I'll be running the same cpu with 4gb ram.

[@mikehenson5]

Thanks for showing off the Ubuntu touch! I daily drive a PinePhonePro. 2021 May through 2023 May my daily driver was a PinePhone running DanctNIX Arch with Phosh 2023 May through today my daily driver is a PinePhonePro running DanctNIX Arch with Phosh

[@thenoplanchannel]

And how do you like it? A PinePhone Pro is definitely on my list to try. So few videos or articles are out on it though that really show it off! What carriers have you used it with?

[@mikehenson5]

@@thenoplanchannel My reply keeps getting removed.

[@mikehenson5]

@@thenoplanchannel I like the PinePhonePro a lot!

[@ENNEN420]

If you want a "daily driver phone" (you can totally daily drive a pinephone) then get a fairphone with ubuntu touch or pixel 3 and flash ubuntu touch to that (pixel 3 is the flagship phone for the project)

[@x-plane1188]

FP дорогой, pixel одноразовый, UBports скучна в качестве линукса.

[@firstNamelastName-ho6lv]

Fairphone is disgusting

[@x-plane1188]

@@firstNamelastName-ho6lv аргументы?

[@The.LastMelon]

The pine phone was such a letdown for me. I was looking at the pinephone pro. Loved the keyboard battery case thing. Then I read more and more. Saw posts about people not being able to receive texts or calls (huge deal breaker) and when someone would ask about it or any other questions they got a "Well it is a Dev phone you have to fix it yourself. Please piss off now noob." So I said fine and got a google pixel 7 pro and put GrapheneOS on it. In the mean time I waited. I waited and waited for a "Finished" product. I just want a cool phone that has dome privacy and that fu*king keyboard battery case. I'll probably have to make something my self.

[@thenoplanchannel]

Call and texts are kinda important for a phone to do😂 How do you like Graphene?

[@akarien1395]

Same here ! Well almost, i'm sticking to my galaxy a10 because i don't want to buy a new one. Have you figured out your keyboard already ?

[@jeschinstad]

It's definitely not an entertainment device and I completely understand that many people would not want to use one. But I still use mine for certain things. I love the ability to completely switch operating system by simply replacing the sd card. I wish it had a mini battery that could remain connected while the main battery was being replaced though. It would only need a few minutes worth of capacity.

[@thenoplanchannel]

For a tinkerer it can definitely make a lot of sense. Have you been able to daily drive it as a phone? Specifically on a cell phone network?

[@jeschinstad]

@@thenoplanchannel Sure. There's really only two things I miss slightly and that's a few Norwegian apps, like the phone is a ticket for public transport around Oslo and it is also a valid personal ID. Neither of those things will work, but I have a card for both, so it's not an issue. I don't use the camera very much at all and I don't use my phone for playing games or surfing because I'm surrounded by laptops, desktops and big screens all the time. I mostly use my phone for connectivity and PIM, like calendar, tasks, projects, contacts, etc. All of that works very well. It's nice to be able to use the same software as I use on the desktop. Right now I'm using it as a server. But I can just pop in another SD card to turn it back into a phone and it's not going to be outdated, so I like having it. :)

[@Alpha8713]

Too bad--this looks like it would have been an interesting device. As a side note, my Samsung Galaxy Xcover 6 has a removable battery, removable back, SD card, and headphone jack, so those features are not dead yet.

[@thenoplanchannel]

How interesting! I was unfamiliar with the Xcover line. That looks really cool! I would love to slap Ubuntu Touch on a device like that!

[@Alpha8713]

@@thenoplanchannel The Xcover and Xcover 6 are both pretty terrific and under-appreciated products. I don't know if the bootloader is unlocked or can be unlocked, though. I have never tried.

[@thenoplanchannel]

I like a lot about it! I'll see if I can find anything on unlocking it and whether there's a good OS supporting it!

[@novh4ck]

The thing on the screen is 100% a plastic protective film. I took mine off and replaced it with a glass one from the official store way back. You kinda skipped the accessories where there is the most important thing this device has - the physical keyboard. That feature transforms this thing into a tiny portable computer with a massive battery. Good video otherwise!

[@thenoplanchannel]

Interesting!! I've seen many posts of people trying to take off that protector and it destroys their screen. Good to know though! And, those accessories sure are cool, but to me, they fall short when the main device has a hard time making calls or receiving messages. Most aren't looking to just add another device to their pocket, they want to replace the one they have with a device that respects their privacy. Thank you for the comment and I'm glad you like the video!

[@novh4ck]

@@thenoplanchannel Now you made me worried that there might be multiple versions of the screen. :D However if that was true they would probably not be selling tempered glass protectors for it on the official Pine store (I bought that one).

[@Peter-i7y1q]

I really appreciate the support for the open source community pine64 did I have no idea how they can develop such complicated products for a niech market like this

[@thenoplanchannel]

Absolutely! Pine64 is incredible and I hope they keep pushing. A pinephone 2 would be VERY exciting to see!

[@dogzdontzbarkz6540]

I think that the price on these makes it impossible for normal Linux users to daily drive them. I know that the price is already at the minimum; but comparing to 2nd hand phones that can boot Linux, you can see why not many people use it atm, which sucks. But I still think it is a great thing for Linux community as a whole thb.

[@thenoplanchannel]

We hopefully will be able to get my OnePlus N10 working with Ubuntu Touch soon and we'll bring that to you when we do!

[@dogzdontzbarkz6540]

@@thenoplanchannel I will wait for the video! The phone is around $100 in my country so it will be a more viable option than many run-of-the-mill Linux phones

[@Straycatstrat10]

I recently purchased a PinePhone. I should have gotten the pro. I love Plasma on my computer, and I love Plasma mobile, but is so sluggish, its nearly unusable in my opinion. Currently running Mobian and just use Pixel 8 for KZbin when not able to use my PC, or when laying in bed. I have AT&T, and had to update the firmware of the modem to keep it from crashing. Ubuntu Touch runs decent, but for whatever reason doesnt detect the modem. Arch with Phosh runs pretty good. Tried Manjaro, but couldn't get the MMS settings to stick for some reason. Do have a question. How is call quality for you, or anybody else? For me, it sounds like the other person is talking to me from a distance in a tunnel, and they say I sound far away from tge device. Can't get any bluetooth headset to work properly (setting sound settings to use the headset mic crashes the bluetoith), so I use a wired headset, which is fun while driving.

[@thenoplanchannel]

I also want to try the Pimephone Pro and see if it's improved! Call quality is bad for me as well. But then I switched to T-Mobile and it doesn't even work with the PinePhone for me

[@Straycatstrat10]

@@thenoplanchannel From what I have come across, the pro is a much better experience. That extra gig of RAM (for me, my convergence edition has 3 GB of RAM, which would be 2 gig increase for you) and extra cores, higher clock just gives a better experience.

[@redchief94]

Its a completely different paradigm than normal phones but I've been really loving tinkering with arch with SXMO. I usually just SSH into the phone to do most things which makes it very easy to fit into my workflow.

[@woodysworkshop7123]

@@thenoplanchannel Computing side is much better, but the drivers are not as well finished. Cameras 90% don't work.

[@Ninetieschillout]

Nop Lan? What language is this?

[@thenoplanchannel]

It's a rare dialect, called Mumblish!

[@jaimemarces5051]

This pinephone can available in Philippines

[@thevideoman12]

Manjaro is my main OS, I'd love running a version of that on my phone to have an apple like ecosystem but open source. What a shame that this has failed.

[@thenoplanchannel]

Indeed! And it's not fully failed. Aspects of it live on in several OSes and I hope more Android devices get support with the likes of Ubuntu Touch or others

[@mr.pigeon0]

for the newest pinephone they are waiting for the Rockchip RK3588 to have better software before they can start work on it

[@nowave7]

Truth be told, when it comes to the whole user experience, I have to say that Ubuntu touch works quite well on a Pixel 3a which is the recommended device from the Ubuntu ports project. Of course, Pixel 3.a is a much, much more powerful device than a Pine Phone. But as someone already mentioned, the reason this is is because UT uses proprietary Android drivers that already ship with Pixel 3/a that utilize hardware acceleration, in the form of Halium hardware abstraction layer, which I geuss is not really the case for Pine Phone.

[@thenoplanchannel]

Indeed! I have the OnePlus Nord N10 and I want to get Ubuntu Touch on there but it seems the carrier is keeping it from being unlocked even though I own it outright

[@zed625]

I ordered one of these, they shipped it to me from HK no no packaging so it was broken. They then pointed to their refund policy, and said no replacements/fixes on phones broken during shipping. I had to do a chargeback to get a refund (no credit card company allows this behavior) and they were threatening me the whole time. Really cool product by a really sleazy company

[@thenoplanchannel]

Oof! That is not good! I didn't have that bad of an experience with receiving mine. Sorry you went through that!

[@anti-popfpv4638]

I'm a believer in Mobile linux. I would settle for a "coral" . example. type usb adapter to connect for when I wanted the extra GPU and RAM.

[@thenoplanchannel]

I am a believer as well, I just don't know that making specialized hardware like this is the answer right now

[@WerIstLuka]

i've been daily driving my pinephone pro for some time now its not perfect but its good enough

[@thenoplanchannel]

VERY cool! What carrier are you using for calls and text? What OS are you running and does SMS and MMS work consistently?

[@woodysworkshop7123]

@@thenoplanchannel I daily with PPPro and have AT&T. I have my gripes with the PainPhone, but I have lower expectations for it and am impressed at how many things it can do.

[@WerIstLuka]

@@thenoplanchannel im using o2 as a carrier i use mobian sms works consistently mms also works but its a bit more difficult the message doesnt get send to my phone but i get a sms from my carier with a code i can log into their website with my phone number and the code there i can see the mms

[@TaelsDoll]

covid killed pine64 ngl 😅

[@thenoplanchannel]

Haha! Definitely had an impact!

[@512Bytes]

Instead of Ubuntu touch, try Gnome Mobile of Plasma Mobile 😊

[@thenoplanchannel]

Thanks for the tip! How does that very from Phosh? I've actually not seen too much out from it that's much different. But being such a Plasma guy I haven't paid too much attention to that side of things. And yes, I really want to try Plasma Mobile!

[@x-plane1188]

Plasma is constantly crashed.

[@Carnyzzle]

The underpowered performance of phones like these are always what makes them a turn off for me even though I'm right in the market for what they want to offer

[@thenoplanchannel]

For sure! They are so so close to being great!

[@exturkconner]

Even the pro is pretty difficult to justify. It's got a cpu that a lot of the cheap retro handhelds are rocking these days. Paying 400 dollars for a device with the same CPU as something you can buy for 60 is pretty harsh and they weren't very high end with any of the other parts either. It was a cool project. If like Framework decided to do a phone with the same general standards as the laptops they've produced we might see something along what the vision of the pinephone itself was based on. An every day linux phone still seems a long ways off though so the software ideals of the pinephone still seem like a distant unlikely dream.

[@thenoplanchannel]

I really want to see and selected handful of Android phones get the attention. 5-10 phones that everyone develops for to make as good as possible and then expand out from there. At the moment, we just need a few phones to work great with Linux mobile so that you can daily drive. I will buy a phone just for that!

[@Zool1985]

The cheapest Chinese phone from Temu is more usable than this one. 🙈

[@thelakeman2538]

I mean yeah obviously, you sacrifice a lot trying to get a fully open source phone since qualcomm, mediatek or unisoc (in the case of some of those super cheap devices) don't give open source firmware or drivers.

[@Roboto-z8z]

CIA killed it...

[@thenoplanchannel]

🤣

[@JohnChrysostom101]

Wow old cpu and way outdated

[@thenoplanchannel]

Yes indeed! I hope a new one may come out some day with far more competitive hardware

[@smugwolff6828]

chineseium iphone clones run better than it lol

[@thenoplanchannel]

Haha! Well...

[@scotts9898]

Im sorry but comparing Samsung DEX to whatever that phone uses is a huge joke. DEX is freaking awesome.

[@nickthaskater]

This uses Linux with access to full desktop-grade applications. DeX is just a frontend for Android applications.

[@thenoplanchannel]

The concept is very similar. That was not a statement of performance or usability, just how they are both trying to accomplish the same thing

[@kelownatechkid]

@@thenoplanchannel If you are able to get your hands on a Galaxy S9, those supported Linux on Dex with their original os releases. That was awesome...

[@redchief94]

DEX is only useable in the garbage Samsung ecosystem. I don't particularly like the way my pihephone works but at least I actually get to use it. If I want to.use my S23 I have to ask dadd- I mean Samsung if I can pretty please use my phone today, or do they need to downgrade it again.

[@nickthaskater]

@redchief94 what are you going on about? "Ask Samsung if you can use it"...?