What Happened to Wargroove 2?

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Night in Venice, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Study And Relax, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Vibing Over Venus, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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[@dasirrlicht5415]

I think Wargroove 2 tried to be a jump like Advance Wars 2. A small one, with minor improvements, and some new stuff. And while it can stand on its own, its predecessor will reach out the arm and drab it by the ankle. What it did to differenciate itself from the first was not enough for the modern world where one can add half a game to a existing one.

[@exitsexamined]

That's a great point about it being similar to AD2 in some regards. I didn't have time to compare the two in detail in the video but if I ever talk about it again I'll 100% bring that up!

[@theoutlander1411]

Good take. I think it's a delicate balancing act though. I've seen games that I like receive "updates" where they try to add new systems to the same game and it over-complicates things and changes up the gameplay. The key is to give enough new content in a sequel to justify it but not enough to fundamentally change the game itself. The Halo series is a great example of this, each game is mostly similar to the original but with a few changes that enhance the gameplay experience without making it different. AW1-AW2 would be a tough sell in today's environment because outside of a new campaign, 9 new commanders and the neotank its basically the same as the original. It would make for a better DLC expansion but back than such a thing didn't exist especially for something like the gameboy.

[@ImaginaryNumb3r]

AW2 was to AW1 what Broodwar was to Starcraft 1. It only added few changes, but all of them mattered. On top, AW2 had a superb campaign, aided by the weird Black Hole CO design. But it was not AW2 we got here, we got Dual Strike. Which mostly consists of a series of unfortunate gimmicks.

[@ManafieldsDev]

I loved the first but haven’t pulled the trigger on the second one yet. Shame to hear from people that it feels like a DLC rather than a sequel. Really hope they can beef it up in the future.

[@exitsexamined]

I really hope so too. At this point I think it's probably better to wait for a sale / hopefully another free DLC to address some of the issues before buying it.

[@wolfmech]

Yeah as of now Wargroove two is more of a faction expansion then a full on squeal. I hope though that in the future we get some free dlc to fix this huge over site.

[@exitsexamined]

We can hope. But actually after thinking about it more and reading some comments here we shouldn't have to expect the DLC to fix the issues in the first place. But yes, hopefully!@@wolfmech

[@wolfmech]

@@exitsexamined Mhm to bring it more in line to a Wargrove 2 not a Wargrove 1.5.

[@ryderrr08]

A dlc new commander, new unit, better balancing, new campaign for a dlc price. I don't get your problem

[@FlammieLL]

In case people think it's just an extension from Wargroove 1, it pretty much is. When i booted up the short lived demos during june, if you checked some of the information for the units, you could get some new information on it, like while it was unavailable the changes for the Warship that it could only attack land unit, were there. However some of the information from the first game is still there, like checking some of the COs, it says on their info screen "Play Arcade mode to unlock some more lore". So they pretty much scrapped the first game and then made the second out of the remnants of the first one pretty much.

[@exitsexamined]

That's so interesting, thanks so much for the info. If I had know that I would have 100% included that in the video. I'm honestly not surprised at all although it's still disappointing to hear.

[@drrobotnik5265]

The reason for this is because "wargroove 2" was meant to be a dlc for wargroove titled "moregroove", not a second game, so intead you just have a hobbled together mess of a "story" that kind of just wanders around aimlessly.

[@FlammieLL]

@@drrobotnik5265 That is interesting to know, but where did you get the info it was supposed to be a DLC and the name "Moregroove" ?

[@DanTheMeek]

Loved the original (literally bought it twice just to support them) but haven't gotten around to picking up the sequel so this was an interesting, and rather depressing, listen. Had WG2 wishlisted with plans to pick it up around christmas, but after this video, I guess I'll spend my money else where. Disappointing to hear they killed such a fun game. I will note, I never liked arcade mode in the original, so pretty sure I wouldn't have even noticed it was gone, but the selling point for me was the great campaign, so if its as garbage as this video indicates it is in WG2, thats a big no go. Advance Wars 2 was basically just AW1 again, no new ai, sprites or modes, just double supers and a few new COs, but the campaign was still fantastic so I still adored it.

[@exitsexamined]

I also adored the first one and was sad about the state of WG2. But if you liked the original you honestly might enjoy WG2. I wouldn't say the campaign or gameplay is terrible - just kind of lackluster. As far as the tone for me it was a little cringy and disjointed but I know that really depends on your taste. If it's on sale and a free DLC comes out that addresses some of the issues who knows, it might be worth it by Christmas!

[@tatters8236]

I recall when I mentioned my confusion about the missing arcade mode on the steam discussion forums I got nothing but comments saying that Arcade was garbage and calling me stupid for missing it. That aside, I just kinda stopped playing the campaigns somewhere in the middle of the pirate campaign and just didn't feel like the story was good enough to warrant going through a bunch more of my least favorite style of combat in the game, so, in addition to the issues you've brought up here I'm probly never going to finish it myself. I do disagree with your complaint about the look of the pirates, though. Historically, pirates were often soldiers and navelmen who lost their jobs after one war or another ended, plus, pirates are known to steal equipment from whoever they can, so, it just kinda makes sense that the pirate units look like a mix of units from other factions.

[@exitsexamined]

Hey thanks for watching it. If it makes you feel better I definitely miss the arcade mode too! That's a good point about the pirates and some of the designs are interesting. As far as reskins I think the biggest letdown is actually how almost every other faction look is copy/pasted from the previous game

[@ThrillingDuck]

Interesting. I'm a massive fan of the first title (and a massive fan of Advance Wars as well) but I haven't picked this up yet simply because of the busy release season. I'm still going to play it and see for myself because general reviews have been positive and the trailers make it look like everything I personally want, but I see where you're coming from, I guess. The only demand you had which I feel is genuinely unreasonable is the graphical one, and not even because of development budgets. Wargroove is a top down view strategy game with great pixel art. It's a spiritual successor to Advance Wars, which did the same thing graphically. The graphical jump from Advance Wars 1 to 2 was nonexistent - all returning units were literally recycled assets, but this GBA art style was frankly way better than ReBoot Camp's bad 3D, and perhaps most critically there was no console generation jump. Wargroove should be compared to its inspiration, not to triple A console releases for sequels which flat out released on new hardware. Yeah, the graphical jump from Metal Gear Solid 1 to 2 was massive, as was the one from Mario 64 to Sunshine. That's because there was a console generation jump. I'm not trying to be inflammatory - I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand how or why you expected an indie title with a timeless pixel art style (case in point - the GBA AW games literally look better than ReBoot Camp in most fans' opinion) to pull off a console generation sized leap forward in its sequel, just because it's a "numbered entry." I found that section of this video absolutely baffling. Otherwise good job!

[@cgheezey1]

3:02 did he just say "advanced wars"? 3:09 oh shit, yeah he said "advanced" 3:27 "advanced wars on the gameboy advanced" damn bro

[@exitsexamined]

🥴

[@xHeigoux]

@@exitsexamined for some reason most people seem to call it that. Maybe it has to do with your mother tongue. I played this series before learning english, so it's obviously called advance wars for the game boy advance. still hoping for switch wars one day^tm

[@chaoslord8918]

@@xHeigoux I think the main difference is that people who actually had a GameBoy Advance and played Advance Wars use the correct term "Advance", while people who didn't use "Advanced". Either that or it shows who pays attention to detail and who doesn't.

[@RancorSnp]

Honestly? I played Wargroove 1 for a few hours, the fact that it didn't have asymetric factions made me lose interest. The only interest I had in 2 was hoping that it will fix this, to my knowledge it didn't - so I don't care about it

[@sfs2040]

"fix it" as if that's a deficiency

[@cliffo1352]

​@@sfs2040This guy probably thinks a strategy game needs to be super genius level complexity

[@drrobotnik5265]

Incase you are out of the loop, this was never meant to be a full game, rather a dlc for the first game titled "moregroove" with ambigious information being revealed over time by the devs, the remenants of WG1 lying around inside the game are because thats all it was meant to be, a big sendoff dlc and an update to the first game, instead it got pushed out as a "whole game" which it really struggles to be with how janky the story it.

[@nicholasbarton3184]

Solid video as always! Hate to say it, but I agree with most of your points 🥲

[@bitterblossom19]

It was just a little too late and the addition and changes from the first game wasn't enough to make it feel different and new.

[@BooperSchmooper]

I like that the AI can't cheat in fog of war now, but smarter AI would have been great to go with it. I still dislike the old "move and lose vision of the spot you were at" mechanic. I'm an avid Advance wars: Days of Ruin enjoyer and it's fog of war mechanics are so much fresher feeling compared to the old advance wars style. I was a bit saddened with Wargroove 1 and 2 overlooking this style of fog of war and simply copying original advance wars fog mechanics exactly. If Wargroove 2 took the risk and implemented the DoR fog of war style I'd support them and buy it. Alas it's just the same copy paste of advance wars fog again.

[@TheIronSavior]

What's up with the frame rate when showing scenes from MGS3, or do I need to reboot my phone?

[@Ephraim225]

I saw a cursor at the time. Emulator screen capture maybe?

[@waferdaze8017]

I think the tone is a bit difficult with this game, one of the main issues it runs into is when it keeps making you play from the "evil" perspective. Like the Fahri faction? I REALLY like the idea, and am honestly glad that the regular soldiers were made so prominent in that one. Their nation is one that values intelligence and critical thinking over raw power and martial prowess. Lytra and the friend group she develops all represent the reluctant soldiers who are simply following their orders. They've all accepted that what they think likely means little, and just end up stuck with the assumption that their superiors would know better. And yes, Rhomb and Pistil represent figures that DO know better, but are both after VERY different things. It's supposed to be a "war is hell" kind of story on their end, but the tragedy is that they are a very green military. They don't KNOW that it would likely be fine if they rebelled against Pistil, which would've been in their best interest when she sells out Rhomb. But again, you're unquestionably playing an antagonistic role for their campaign. So their losses feel very superficial compared to... You know, the faction you may have been fond of in the first game and what all they CONTINUE to lose. Like, this game did the Floran REAL dirty, and while it does make me hate Pistil a lot more for a mildly satisfying payout later, there are OTHER story issues as well. But I do think the two middle campaigns are a modest breath of fresh air, especially the Saffron islands. Spoilers btw: Tenri becoming the worst made sense with what was being built up through the game, but seriously. I have NO idea why the first choice they went for was having you PLAY as her upon revealing what the Heavensong Empire had been planning. Like, WHY? I get the idea, it allows the story to go at it's break neck pace so it can reveal literally the rest of the important information over the course of the mission. But I can't help but feel vitriol when Tenri starts complaining about "being stabbed in the back by all her allies." Yeah, want to talk about betrayals? Why don't you talk with the FLORAN first. I'm sure they have a LOT to say with the twisted knife in their back. Like I DESPISE Tenri for her choices in this game, almost as bad as Pistil who had the express purpose of being an uncontrolled evil in the story. Past that, I agree with everything here. Like, yeah, this feels less like a sequel, and more like an expansion. They remove a lot and I GUESS the idea is that Conquest mode is supposed to serve as something of a "replacement" for Arcade. I suspect the main reason they may have excluded Puzzle mode and Arcade mode is because in the first game those were contributors to the star grind in the first game. But that feels like a moot point when Stars became useless in this game, and a whole DLC campaign was added to the first game to even further LIGHTEN the grind for stars. Conquest being a strategy roguelike is a bit niche though, I don't think bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't do it for most people. Overall, my most idealist thoughts for Wargroove 2? It feels like they're more busy setting up for larger changes with a Wargroove 3. New sprites for characters like Koji who would grow a bit between the stories, Ryota's story is taking, bluntly, a REALLY cool an interesting turn at the end of the game, The Floran are in DIRE need to figure something out to compensate for all their losses here. I don't know, it feels like it's TRYING to plant seeds for something in a sequel more than being a full sequel itself.

[@cartoonclips_if]

this was posted 2 months after the games launch. And this games and its prequel have really good map makers. what the heck?

[@jonathanmcdonald5514]

It’s a shame this game doesn’t have the same level of excitement and buzz around it as it’s immediate predecessor. I actually really enjoyed the campaigns, the expanded roster, and some of the additional Grooves. Loved Conquest. Sadly, it does feel a little lacking in content. I’m hoping this series still has support and legs to continue.

[@SharkyNebula]

This video really struggles to make any coherent points about why Wargroove 2 is bad.

[@mtaur4113]

Kind of agree. New units and groove reworks are mostly good. But Puzzle and Arcade were a lot better than Conquest, IMO. And this game desperately needed better AI. If anything, the AI is slightly worse than before. PvP game design is amazing, but only hardened veterans play quickplay, so it's pretty devastating to try it. With AI being an order of magnitude worse than a mediocre casual player, matches are either trivial or seemingly impossible. If you played WG1 a fair amount, then you are probably too good for AI and too weak for veteran PvP. But that's all there is to choose from. Conquest and Story Mode try to prop up the crap AI with tons of gimmicks and scripted events, but the AI is such a house of cards. The video did not take an angle like this, but that's how I feel about it.

[@citizen_grub4171]

That might be because he never said it was bad.

[@MasterKnightDH]

(Repost to get rid of a troll's responses.) I would like to add my 2 cents, because we can see yet more proof of community politics being such a problem, and there's points that as a result of talking about the Combo Points system of a game called Shattered Throne will at least indirectly involve the Super Mario RPG remaster, which DOES show TLC aside from a blatant Difficulty Spike postgame, and has seen a recent release as well. The original Wargroove is something I was hoping to help balance, and by the way, I can state that Trebuchets are something I would have called out on sight, as rewarding the player with objective boosts for staying away all the time is anything but kinetic and invites degenerate gameplay. Unfortunately, the development team wanted to snub me in favor of nasty people in the Advance Wars communities. It's a long story, but even without their proven repeat support of one Magnus "Mangs" Hestveen, the Advance Wars communities have a whole host of behaviors, which I testified about on comments for my video about Rivals Hard Campaign for the original Advance Wars. It's also worth noting that the particular chosen representative of the AW communities did not allow me to submit evidence of gameplay problems under the excuse that I made the videos, even though videos like my No Pause Run of Bonus Misison 3 in Battalion Wars 1 would have a key intent of opening up discussion of the involved gameplay in the first place, with or without Wargroove's own problems. Believe me, you wouldn't have liked the hostility either. What I can additionally state is that Wargroove 1, for how it does have its good points here and there, has problems that should have been stamped out VERY quickly. And it's not some random bugs coming up out of nowhere, oh no. Here is something I can cite: when I looked into Shattered Throne's art style at one point to see what I could pinpoint about the problems with its art style, the only thing I could say was a POSITIVE, that attack range tiles were marked with crossing swords. Why is this relevant? Well, Wargroove thinks to differentiate relevant tile with wavy lines, and it gets straining on the eyes FAST, not helped by the standard Movement Power being only 4, and especially not helped by maps being massive enough--I even noted that a mandatory arrival map where a 4 Movement Power needed to get from one side of the map to the other, AND also had to maneuver around terrain, was about as big as GREAT SEA BATTLE IN ADVANCE WARS 2. And this is keeping in mind that GSB is built around involving an epic battle even with Yellow Comet playing the role of Frodo, and GSB gives you air units for mobility as well. And the map design isn't even what I'm intending to focus on either, oh no. I can even cite that the movement/attack range checking wasn't an eye strain in Lost Frontier, where units are slightly more mobile thanks to the Living Legends having actually sleek gameplay (hi, Doc Valentine) instead of being glorified sledgehammers who are abusable as enemy phase juggernauts like the WG Commanders are. My point with Shattered Throne's art style is that while it did need the support of somebody who could have helped streamline the art, it did not have the art handling get in the way of the gameplay. That's a problem unique to Wargroove. The community politics situation hasn't even improved in the least either. If anything, it has only managed to get worse in light of the Advance Wars communities aiding and abetting the aforementioned "Mangs", who I will call Hestveen hitherto for reasons you'll see, even well after Hestveen was proven to have sexually assaulted a woman at a cross-country convention and showed NO remorse for as much. The Advance Wars subreddit claims to be against Hestveen because Hestveen "terrifies them" but in that case, things like the "missile chan" meme that blatantly belongs to Hestveen being left unaddressed is at best a half-efforted job that proves that they don't truly care about Advance Wars, especially when even if they're not lying, in that case, we're just having the sort of chaos that already got milked by Hestveen's supporters in discrediting concrete evidence providers. And this isn't even getting into the Advance Wars subreddit being actually possible to ignore. You can't ignore KZbin, where Hestveen's channel shows up as the top search result of "Advance Wars"; nor can you ignore Advance Wars By Web, where the userbase provides Hestveen direct support to this day. And you won't get any aid from WayForward either, because they'll just refuse to care. I know this from my efforts to combat this entire mess as well, with my advantages of POV and ability to prove Hestveen's unrepentant manipulation as such. It's been a nightmare to get ANYWHERE, and I'm dealing with people who even vandalized my parents' house by all indications before late March just this year because their harassment against me is just that nasty. You can see why I'm barely leaving comments about Wargroove 2, which shows little in the sign of improvement or feedback consideration. By contrast, I got a Switch over the remaster of Super Mario RPG, after 6 years of annoyance with corporate greed, and I'm definitely not regretting it. The Timing Chain mechanic in particular is awesome for rewarding working with the immersive part of the gameplay, denying benefits to players who don't keep their allies alive, and also particularly boosting Bowser with an engaging gameplay buff. I was even able to guess as well before the game was even leaked how it would be similar to Shattered Throne's Combo Points system, although obviously there are clear as day differences, but I definitely welcome the bonus of this indirect vindication after helping to balance Shattered Throne. It just sucks that the Advance Wars communities are an irreparable mess regardless. Long story short, we should be sending the message that TLC matters.

[@TheIronSavior]

Hard to ignore all the "advanced" 😬

[@exitsexamined]

Thanks for pointing it out! I'll try harder / do better next time but hopefully I'll never have to repeat the word advance / advanced in rapid succession for another video.

[@HansAlRachid]

All I really wanted from a Wargroove sequel was more distinct mechanics for individual CO and their unit rosters. Instead we got this, so I was definitely disappointed. Also, much less relevant, but I also absolutely hated the overly saccharine writing in the story. At least the Conquest mode was fun in concept.

[@Devil-Speed8]

damn i wanted to play this game but when i learnt it wasnt being made by the original studio, thats when i knew i could no longer buy. and seeing this vid has proven me right. im no good at math yet even i can tell that theres less content in the sequel compare to the first.

[@wh3nderson95]

There was a Wargroove 2?

[@nahte123456]

I wanted this game so i played the first and honestly didn’t finish because that second to last level where you only have commanders just wasn't fun. And I've been on the fence on getting this one since, if the campaign isn't fun enough I'm not going to get into the rest.

[@exitsexamined]

If you didn't enjoy the first you're most likely not going to enjoy this one sadly. There's probably slightly more of an emphasis on CO type units in the new campaign

[@nahte123456]

@@exitsexamined I did enjoy 1, it's just thar map where it's just the COs and sometimes they'd be possessed annoyed me to much. It was a totally different style of gameplay than everything else in the game and built on being cheap. The COs themselves were fine.

[@Innosos]

I'm really disappointed in WG2s decision to drop mod support. That was the one thing that was good about Wargroove 1 aside from its artstyle. Versus against AI sucks, the campaign was awful; Chucklefish suck at making interesting singleplayer maps and the COs were all forgettable. Without the creative outlet that was the editor and modding I would not have recommended the game to anyone.

[@exitsexamined]

Thanks for mentioning, I should have included in the video!

[@MidniteCathedral]

Really wish they'd at least overhauled the AI. So disappointed the AI still *can't even use transports*.

[@ryderrr08]

Ia in advance wars was garbage. Days of ruins was probably the only AW with good ia. These games are made to play with players tbh

[@Chr1s_1986]

The focus of WG 1 and 2 were never the AI they are pvp games and thats why its ok that the AI is trash.

[@DiablosDeviljho91]

In my opinion so far the thing that disappointed me the most was the music, wargroove 1 OST felt like banger after banger after bange. The soundtrack here just isnt wargroove like, like its not bad but its not as iconic.

[@RussyPopDnD]

You actually compared it to Halo/MGS to complain about a lack of graphical increases? Sigh. There is a world of contextual differences, and it looks really amateur for you to be making that comparison. I say this very gently, but I think you might want to take some time and read into game development to get more experience as a reviewer.

[@theoutlander1411]

All Wargroove has as a game (other than the puzzle modes) is its multiplayer potential. Whether it be playing with a friend to take down a powerful A.I., facing each other or facing other people online alone or with a friend. If they don't focus on that they're really wasting their time.

[@noboty4168]

I am so tired of these so called " sequels" being complete downgrades. I got tired of it in pokemon and bowed out in X and Y. Good thing I left so early, looking at what has happened to the franchise since then. Looks like I just dodged another bullet here.

[@exitsexamined]

Yeah it is unfortunate. Hopefully the industry will take note at some point

[@Chr1s_1986]

Whats your point here i dont get it. I played over 1200h in WG1 most of it pvp and played allready over 100h in WG2. The focus of WG2 is clearly on pvp and thats been fixed in the last few patches.

[@UwURainUwU]

So TLDR game is good - but wait for the first proper update.

[@ElGalloUltimo]

Where is your Wargroove analysis video? Don't see it on your channel

[@exitsexamined]

Hey so the story on that one is that I had an extremely short-lived long form video game analysis channel before I started this one. Wargroove was the first video I ever did for it, I think it's still somewhere out there on youtube

[@Vivaldidu14]

Well you convinced me to just wait for a few updates and grab the game when it's on sale xD

[@potatodiggs9602]

Very ugly character design to the point it seems intentional

[@exitsexamined]

To be fair, it does have the same design as the characters in the original game