What happens if you bring Jaheira and Minsc to Viconia

[@GayLPer]

Jaheira: I am wise enough to know I am not wise, so I shall interfere. Minsc: and Minsc is simply not wise at all, therefore he is the wisest! Viconia: Jaheira: *Viconia takes 3d4 psychic damage and has disadvantage on her next attack* *Jaheira saves against whatever the hell that was*

[@bottasheimfe5750]

that would be an amazing Vicious Mockery combination if it worked like that

[@VienQuitonm]

Truly the best duo.

[@samiraperi467]

Minsc and Drax would probably be best friends.

[@OOKIE_DOOKIE]

@@samiraperi467 first they would try to beat the shit out each other, and then become besties

[@tyrael303]

So basically the Sontaran Butler in the barfight?

[@Shatterstar]

Good on Boo for handling all those adds, make the fight so much easier.

[@nickcampbell9129]

This is the perfect fight for Shadowheart’s divine intervention. Unsure if this was fixed in patch 4 but due to Shadowheart instantly dying upon using Sunder the Heretical due to the ridiculous damage from all the radiant retorts, the game fails to register her Divine Intervention as actually being used, so once Shadowheart is healed, she can use Divine Intervention again on her next turn, go down, get healed, then divine intervention again, rinse and repeat. It makes one of the harder fights in the game fairly trivial as long as you can get Shart up before her next turn. Plus seeing Shart take like 3 thousand damage in a turn is hilarious

[@fluffernutter6633]

Shadowheart*

[@jacklee469]

no matter how many times i read it i'm never prepared for the psychic damage i receive from "shadowheart" being shortened to "shart"

[@OnAChairSitting]

@@jacklee469 The poo stains in Shadowheart's undies represents the darkness of lady Shar

[@daractive4936]

@@jacklee469 Paul Blart and the Shart in Heart.

[@yuriysukhorukov391]

Just climb to the top of stairs, cast a wall of mortal flame with distant spell with sorc, tentacles / hadar / insects on top to impede your enemies. Boop the most impudent foes with an eldrich blast or just shove them back Counterspell the most vicious spells, and it's actually an easy fight

[@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm]

They really did my BG2 drow waifu dirty in this segment. I know that her "reformation arc" (especially from the ToB) isn't canon, but still. To have somebody risk their whole life to escape a cruel, dogmatic, overcontrolling religion to save one's family; and then turn her into a cruel, dogmatic, overcontrolling zealot who opresses other families is just a character assasination

[@stefankostovski80]

They did the same with sarevok, i would rather not have them at all if they are just going to be turned evil and have us kill them

[@1DJRikkiBee]

Not really. People often imitate the traumatic characteristics of previous abusers unknowingly if they don't properly address their past abuse, simply escaping their abusers is never nearly enough. Many of them also go way too hard in the opposite direction. I've known people who have been in situations where they had no power over what happened to them and their solution to making sure it never happened again was, well, to be the one holding the power over others. Even reformation Viconia could have easily ended up like this.

[@not_nob0dy]

@@1DJRikkiBee I agree and wanna piggyback off it a second, this is something that's definitely big in Larian's playbook, especially in this game-Shadowheart's repression, Astarion's hypersexuality, even Lae'zel's terror disguised behind anger. The game in many ways is about how we react to pain and trauma, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Viconia, sadly, ended up like this

[@PanEtRosa]

@@not_nob0dy it makes a lot of sense for a Shar follower, especially, since Shar's whole deal is repressing fear and trauma. and when you do that, the stress has to come out another way, which is how you get all the abuse and cutthroat competition that we see among her ranks.

[@ohauss]

@@1DJRikkiBee "Even reformation Viconia could have easily ended up like this." Well, not according to ToB, and in any case, it's a bad case of powergaming to simply declare the protagonist of BG2 incompetent to help her.

[@Varsdalith98]

She escaped the death of her entire house by the Do’Urdens only to die later in baldurs gate 3. Lolth is pleased in the end.

[@burakkorkmaz5378]

I hate the Viconia DeVir Fiction BG3, she deserved far more better. She was our ally!

[@Varsdalith98]

@@burakkorkmaz5378 she could have had her memories taken by Shar at the mirror, being manipulated just like Shadowheart.

[@burakkorkmaz5378]

@@Varsdalith98 Yeah I mean she was a hero! Like Minsc we should be allowed to save her

[@timetochronicle]

@@burakkorkmaz5378 Honestly, sparing her is the best option, especially if Jaheira is present. Despite the possibility that Viconia's memories were taken away, at least Jaheira remembers Viconia for who she was.

[@mioju9002]

@@burakkorkmaz5378I hate how BG3 Consumes her.

[@parzaius9]

If you think about it, Viconia saved the lives of all the party characters in BG3. She sent Shadowheart to get the artifact, which caused the githyanki to attack your ship looking for it, which set off the whole adventure. If she hadn't, who knows where the artifact might've ended up. It certainly wouldn't have been with you and the party, which would mean you'd be just more Absolute cultists. While it is a shame that they took V in such a Heel Turn direction, without any chance to guide things more favorably, they didn't want her to overshadow the New Viconia (Shadowheart), nor did they want to downplay Shar as an antagonist (which would've happened if all her servants decided to play nice). V was still of critical importance to the game and was the very first individual who made choices that lead to your ultimate chance at victory. So: regardless of if she likes it or not, she's an honorary member of the team.

[@thatoneguy9816]

The emperor saved your life

[@Mr_Smith618]

​@thatoneguy9816 the emperor is in the artifact which Shadowheart was sent to steal, which she succeeded at. This kicked off the events which crashed the nautiloid and joined the emperor/artifact to your party

[@thatoneguy9816]

Again, the emperor saved your life. Viconia saved no ones life. Never did or will. Might as well say Shar saved everyone's lives. Had Shar not existed, Viconia wouldn't have done it. Who saved Gales life again? Wyll's?@@Mr_Smith618

[@oliverlow2474]

@@Mr_Smith618it’s not exactly clear when the Emperor went inside the artifact. It probably happened like, immediately before the gameplay starts though. According to Gortash’s diaries (and less explicitly, according to what the Emperor tells you), the Emperor was the mind-flayer piloting the Nautoloid that abducted all the party members.

[@drno87]

It feels like there was more to the story at some point. Viconia sought the artifact on her own initiative, which Shar didn't like. Dark Justiciar Shadowheart even cites V's lack of devotion as a reason to purge the House of Grief. The setup is there to potentially convince V that Shar doesn't care about the Absolute and that she should join the party if she wants to fight it.

[@allenarada]

I’m not gonna lie hearing Viconia shouting Shar like in the old games giving me goosebumps

[@alvercaine8893]

jaheira has a line with the nature shout too

[@FacetiousEnigma]

I got to act 3, killed DeVir, then recruited Minsc. For some reason the game gave me the dialogue option "So how was it seeing Viconia again?" but he wasn't even a companion yet.

[@Arkay24]

Same, guess they've still got their work cut out for them

[@SaHaRaSquad]

Also if you talk to Tara on the roof in Rivington you will get the dialogue option about disappearing letters even if you haven't talked to the bird yet.

[@ZeltArruin]

he's got a tadpole, you can share memories

[@gharn2594]

All I can think of while watching this is "wow, Viconia, she got old." As elves don't look aged until they are near the end of their lifespan, she must be around the 700 year mark. She may have missed the redemption arc from bg2, but at least she lived a looong time.

[@Infern0121]

She shouldn't have aged as much as she did in the time span between BG2 and BG3

[@sunnyhill7919]

@@Infern0121 must have used Zincarla... wait, wrong goddess. Whatever Shar's equivalent of Zincarla is, then. It does age one rapidly.

[@vond5829]

The rule of aging in dnd has never been concrete.

[@codylawler2652]

prolly started smoking.

[@OnAChairSitting]

Surface drow need to remember to wear sunblock, as there is much more UV light than in the Underdark!

[@BIGESTblade]

Shit... Viconia really got shafted in this game. Minsc and Jaheira may not like her now very much (even though Viconia always respected Jaheira and Jaheira wasn't lawful good enough to hate her), but they were in the same party for 2 games and they got very little to say to each other. Besides, Viconia was never a zealot. She worshipped Shar because her house got destroyed by enemies and she was forced out of her own home.

[@binhvan4893]

My headcanon is this viconia is not the same vocania from bg2, just a different person with the same name.

[@realdaddydagoth69]

@@binhvan4893 no, the game implies her memories got wiped much like shart's

[@donb7519]

​@@binhvan4893i think larian used the novels as their canon for a set up and i hear those treated the companions very different

[@mildlyderanged]

I'd have rather they'd not included Viconia at all then do her dirty like this, why bother with a cameo when it's only go to be decisive and do the character no justice? Should have just made a new character be head of Shars faith, wouldnt have changed the narrative, this being this wierd take on Viconia adds nothing to the game

[@BIGESTblade]

@@mildlyderanged I share the sentiment, but not including Viconia would also not be right. She is a great hero standing on the same level as Minsc and Jaheira, if short of Elminster and Drizzt. Her not having an important position in the church would not be right. I'd rather she be a candidate to replace Mother Superior you kill in battle to rebuild the church. Viconia's relationship with Minsc and Jaheira should be at least amicable if not friendly, they have much good history together and Jaheira outright wishing to murder her is out of character.

[@purplemonkfish]

Honestly I kinda feel sorry for Viconia. She's been manipulated and lied to by her goddess, her need for validation driving harsher and crueler demands and it all ends up for naught. All she wanted was Shar's love but Shar can never give that, there is no love in Shar. I find this fate quite tragic. She was so twisted up, so deranged from all Shar had made her think she had to do, what hope did she really have? She's not sane, not any more. And yeah, I did romance her in bg2 and always liked her as an interesting flawed character, but it's been a long time since 2 happened and that's a lot of time for Shar to get her claws in. Shar did this to her, and it's really really sad.

[@FromDkWithLove]

the fuck, that's Viconia!? well shit, looks like they went for the BG1 rendition.. she deserves better than that.

[@awakenedtarot7306]

Nah, this is the proper send off for a Shar worshiper.

[@ImrahilToChaos]

@@awakenedtarot7306 She was never a hardcore Shar worshipper.

[@AlexZebol]

​@@awakenedtarot7306play BG2 at least once. Viconia is literally one of the best-written companions in the series. BG3 committed a character-assassination

[@Vaeldrath]

@@AlexZebol Agreed. I love BG3 overall, but I can't stand what happened to Viconia and Sarevok. Two absolute GOATs from the previous games, now reduced to nothing. Jaheira and Minsc were better, but honestly I would have preferred if they had just stuck with entirely original characters, rather than reusing old ones and changing things with them. Also wish there wasn't an Abdel Adrian reference. For a game all about your choices, canonizing so many of them as one choice just felt wrong.

[@LadyAmalthea0615]

I kinda wish that the Origin characters were voiced if you choose to play as them.

[@YouTubeCensorshipStinks]

I really dislike what they did with Viconia. She went from the snarky ride or die woman that helped me slaughter my way through the Sword Coast all the way to Amn, to generic villian # 4. I miss having that Drow duchess in my party.

[@cjnf11]

Viconia was the most loyal and the most honest companion you could get. You saved her life at least twice in the land that was hostile to her and she was eternally grateful for that even if you didn't go the romance route. And in the romance you save her at least two times more (Bodhi and yochlol) and in ToB can shift her alignment to true neutral, which says a lot. This is not Viconia, or maybe you could believe this is Viconia with her mind twisted by Shar.

[@urcovered1231]

This is Virconia. She is not your Virconia. She is not the woman that travelled with you and was saved and possibly changed by the player. The considered "canon" route likely did not have her. Yours would be part of a different world in the multiverse. Side note: Likely did not have her as I do not believe there was a set "canon" party by the end of BG2 for the most part. However, the events and conversations of BG3 implies Minsc and Jaheria were there and Virconia's behavior implies she wasn't.

[@cocomunga]

I was so surprised to see Viconia here. I made super sure to not kill her and only knock her out, but apparently it doesn’t matter.

[@AuroraMoonRise]

died a dozen times before laying Spike Growth, Silence, Cloudkill and then running to the staircase. Had archers and cantrips to pick off the trapped rats

[@alvercaine8893]

as a high level druid spike and cloud being my best friends i loved the fight!

[@tantalus_complex]

Nature Domain Clerics are amazing for crowd control setups like this, as well. I feel like they get overshadowed unfairly. Nature Clerics are basically like Land Druids who replace Wild Shape with... heavy armor proficiency and _the entire Cleric spell list._

[@Cybertori]

Thanks for doingh this. May not be the ideal group, but that dialogue is precioua. I wish there had been some kind of redemption arc - I liked her in BG2.

[@m16dude967]

Me: "I'm going to beat the respect into you that was forgotten."

[@DetectiveNyx]

iirc, viconia literally had her memories and self hollowed out by shar? that was the implication I got, so makes sense she's "lost" a lot; lost whatever development she got in parties in bg2 (makes sense since the bhaalspawn is of indeterminate gender and viconia won't romance women without mods), lost her younger looks, lost just about everything and was still tasked with grooming her successor, mostly just so shar could be a petty bitch to selûne. like she isn't done dirty because larian wanted to stick it to og duology fans, shes done dirty because that's generally what the lady of loss does. (been playing since the original versions, although didnt play when they were first released because they didnt make a baldur's gate that could be played by a newly fertilised embryo)

[@doncagape5409]

The sentient amulet has dialogue about Shar and Viconia if you bring him there

[@Zinodin]

What does he say?

[@SomeGuyXD65]

​@@ZinodinNothing, he made it up

[@Zinodin]

@@SomeGuyXD65 Alright. Did you try that? I know the amulet says stuff when it's equipped at Lathander's monastary and other places. But I delivered it as soon as I entered Act III and never took it took it to Viconia's temple.

[@matthewbrunner3454]

@@SomeGuyXD65 I remember him saying something too, most people probably finished the quest so he was no longer in the amulet by this point.

[@SomeGuyXD65]

@@Zinodin No, I lied

[@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_Human]

Turn 1, I let everyone congregate in the stairway, Twinned Spell Haste on Monk Karlach and Minthara, Shadowheart just keeping everyone up. Turn 2, used Black Hole to pull all the enemies close together. Level 6 Fireball, Quickened Spell to Level 5 Fireball, then Karlach with her 5 attacks and Minthara with her 3 mopped up the piteously moaning survivors.

[@Myzelfa]

I didn't even realize I was supposed to know this person.

[@senorelroboto2]

If you played the first two games, you would recognize her. Otherwise, don't worry about it

[@finnality]

I brought them both but Shadowheart took all the spotlight

[@ionicafardefrica]

Viconia is so much more than this. While I do consent to the option of fighting her, her plot story and send off should be more complex than the three lines of dialogue she got!

[@awakenedtarot7306]

People like to pretend Viconia was this uber fleshed out character in BG2 due to rose-tinted glasses, but she really wasn't.

[@ionicafardefrica]

@@awakenedtarot7306 she was a permanent character in my party. As far as I'm concerned, she was a main character

[@awakenedtarot7306]

@@ionicafardefrica she was in my party a lot too, but people pretend like the BG2 writing was anywhere near as robus as BG3...lol there's like 1/100th the content and dialogue and it's not like the Viconia arc wasn't paper thin. People are just way too invested in their personal head canon

[@ionicafardefrica]

@@awakenedtarot7306 people also like to pretend that Baldur's Gate 3 is flawless as well. And it's not, i had a lot of ups and downs. But all of these opinions are subjective - meaning that if enough people think that a certain game or story is a fantastic masterpiece, then it actually is that. So, by that logic, BG2 Shadows of Amn is and incredible game and Korgan, Viconia and Aeris ARE characters with enough emotional connection to everyone to warrant more attention in a sequel. If you have to touch them in any way, better make it good!

[@seanbirtwistle649]

i was surprised to see her and had hoped for a bit more, but to do her justice means making her a companion again and heading to menzoberranzan. she showed up in BG and BG 2, but she's also noteworthy for the house she's from

[@mioju9002]

Viconia was so nice in BG2. Larian screws up our memory.

[@SenaFoxGirl]

She really REALLY should have known better than to fight Minsc and Jaheira at the very least.

[@JKiler1]

I found this fight incredibly easy. I was worried at first, but two hits took out most of these enemies.

[@Eantrin]

Really feel Larian dropped the ball with Viconia. Someone who abandoned Lloth and her teachings having a large silver spider in her outfit...

[@ChiomaAdigbo-no9tp]

Shit viconias potrait was hot asf in bg2 now she looks like..... well like this😢

[@mrfreeman2911]

larion fucked it up. Drow easily reach 1000. Viconia isn't even that old. A young 300 maybe ;)

[@e-duh3529]

She still looks hot

[@TheCrimsonRevenger]

Very frustrating to see all the work I put into Redeeming Viconia flushed away like this :(

[@joelshaffer9320]

If it's any consolation, this isn't the Viconia you redeemed. This would be an unredeemed Viconia's fate. Just see this as a what if.

[@ButIamAStick]

One of the only draw-backs of changing the studio, it make it dificult to use already save games from prevoius games

[@TheCrimsonRevenger]

@@ButIamAStick They could just, NOT make her mustache-twirling evil though. Even in BG two she wasn't this villainous unless you worked just as hard to make her extra-bad as you did to make her sort-of-good.

[@hyperlucario547]

​@@TheCrimsonRevengerI thought this is because Larian is following the cannon of the Baldur's gate books (For better or for worse).

[@TheCrimsonRevenger]

@@hyperlucario547 Definitely for worse.

[@OldManRogers]

Pity they didn't get the old VA for her

[@danielemori_]

wait, why is Viconia floating

[@jishani1]

i guess i'll never know since jaheira ran in and got two shot immediately when the fight started at moonrise towers

[@LadyAmalthea0615]

Ha, ha fr. I had to restart that fight 3 times because Jaheria kept turning into a panther and running straight into the enemy's attacks. Even then I had to heal her a couple times to keep her health up. Her AI was so bad for me during that fight.

[@assassins61599]

It’s almost mandatory to bring gale to this fight for counterspell, then you have shadow heart cause of course, and I usually bring wyll to throw down hunger of hafar right in the middle cause rhe ai all run right through it everytime

[@vond5829]

Eh, I just cast 2 overlapsing Walls of fire on the stair leading down then cast Darkness to protect my team. Within Darkness, no one snipe in or out so they have to rush through the long stair case filled with inferno hotter than hells. I then just keep casting Black Hole to pull them down/in the fire stair case. Pretty cheesy but this fight is really hard. I tried to do it legit with Jaheira, Minsc and Shadowheart once, I clutched the fight being the only one survived by chugging some invisibility potions

[@zzFlare]

@@vond5829 im pretty sure they all have devils sight, or whatever the equivalent is for the Shar worshippers, so darkness isn't doing anything for that

[@Coolguy98765432q457]

​@@zzFlare They do, and they cast Darkness themselves constantly

[@Cherrycherrylady1479]

Jaheria asks Minthara about Victonia

[@AleksandrStrizhevskiy]

Doesn't show the interactions with her in the projection before going down to the basement. Also doesn't show the interactions after the fight.

[@oxycane851]

I missed so many stories in this game. Didn’t even realize Zahira was important. She died in the battle at the castle.

[@TekTheNinja]

Honestly this character feels like Viconia in name only. Different voice, characterization doesn't make any sense for ANY of her endings, and she doesn't even really look the same.

[@piercingmoon24]

Man, it's always a shitty feeling whenever some asshole decides to establish canon in an rpg. A game that is supposed to be about player choice.

[@nonyabisness6306]

Just like BG3 is BG in name only. the Bhaal story is obviously tacked on. They should've just done a new story around their dumb Elder Brain with Netherese Mcguffin.

[@alexyo2440]

It's almost as if someone bankrolled a franchise into existence because it glorified "chosen people"

[@momqabt]

Did Viconia seriously just say "lalala"?!😂

[@artwithlaur]

L'il arul. It's shortened drow saying. It basically means "the best"

[@ongogablogian4396]

Larian really dropped the ball with Viconia.

[@whssy]

Who in their right mind plays through to act 3, saves Jaheira and Minsc and does NOT take them to visit their beloved old friend?

[@towelgirl21]

I had no idea who any these people were. They were just Cool Aunt, Fun Uncle, and Shadowheart's Enemy.

[@abigfish1620]

All these fights are so much easier when you can cast fireball 3 times per turn lol my first run as a dragonborn, draconic sorcerer this was cake. every other run it has been a struggle

[@DiegoCostaCardoso]

True. 😂

[@ColonelBragg]

This is sort of a shame because she had a good romance in BG2

[@Rogan35]

Larian butchered Viconia in order to be replaced by their own character Shadowheart, otherwise why would they put that Nobody will remember you line, or don't tell me Wotc also wrote the voice lines. xD

[@TaylorONEism93]

Really a shame Minsc comes along so fucking late in the game. He’s such an interesting and fun character, as well as Jaheira. At least you get her start of act 3, but I felt they really screwed up not letting you get access to most if not all the companions by end of Act 1, start of Act 2, because I’m not going to lie, I didn’t even use Minsc, by the time I got him, I had already killed Ansur, Raphael, and Orin. I think I maybe used him once and didn’t even try to use him other than to see what his kit was like. Once I found out he was just another ranger, I left him in camp, same with Jahiera, cause Halsin. Really silly there isn’t a single monk companion in the game and it’s the only class you don’t actively see anyone use, other than the High Githyanki in the Astral Plain.

[@g0lddustt29]

You get Jaheria in Act 2, not act 3, but I agree. It’s also so strange to me that they give you two Druid companions, Halsin and Jaheria, in the same act.

[@TaylorONEism93]

@@g0lddustt29 whoops, i meant act 2, but yea the 2 Druid companions is so dumb. I old be different, if circle of the moon wasn’t the absolute best Druid class. No point in building by a Druid any other way imo. So I essentially just had, 2, of the same Druid lmao.

[@msroxasmoonlight6938]

I was lucky enough to know u get Minsc as a companion pretty early in act 3 (talking to Jaheira and all). So I went first to rescue him and then basically did the same build that I did with Astarion with him, 5 levels of ranger/gloomstalker, 5 levels of rogue/assassin and 2 levels of fighter. I finally had another rogue/ranger character to swap Astarion for a lil bit haha. He has really funny dialogue and dude really made me laugh a lot

[@nanathedelta8561]

⁠@@TaylorONEism93 it isnt a dumb decision. its just an insurance in case player kill Halsin so they could bang Minthara. Let’s be real, a lot of people dislike playing as a Druid. so having one Druid company is nice, I guess.

[@makyoroni]

just reclass lae'zel as monk. I always do that and she is op af

[@unknownbenefactor8029]

I try to imagine if Durge is actually THE og Bhaalspawn how would he react...

[@awakenedtarot7306]

...uh, not anything like OG bhaalspawn would because their backstories are entirely different?

[@user-xw5xo3bv1n]

@@awakenedtarot7306 I think UB imagined a situation if Durge actually [was] original Bhaalspawn and not a new generation.

[@Durahan82]

They Did Viconia Dirty in BG3

[@EnricoZenitani]

I think i'm just mixing stuff up but how do you have Minsc in act 2?

[@Chaoticspacelord]

Mother superior is in Act 3. This is not Ketheric Thorms Mausoleum Shar Temple, it is the House of Grief Shar Temple in Baldurs Gate

[@EnricoZenitani]

@@Chaoticspacelord oh RIGHT. gotcha, thanks.

[@t.t6294]

this really pisses me off. they fucked up viconia

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

It is nice to see that Viconia did so well for herself after BG1 and 2.

[@bagman817]

Even my video game girlfriends are getting old :(

[@mihai000000]

jesus christ , wtf have they done to viconia ? She was by far the best looking romance option , and yet....she looks like she's on her deathbed here. How does she - as a drow (therefore a full elf) looks that much older then jaheira - an half elf , after merely 100 years or so ? She should look in her 30s at most. I won;t even talk about the character assasination that they did.

[@Farendale]

Her good ending in the original series sees her getting assassinated literally. The only way for her to survive is the bad ending.

[@mihai000000]

@@Farendale not necesarily. She can go on to travel and become a hero of her own. She will even fight along drizztz for a while , in one of her endings.

[@AngelofAmbrosia]

God I hate this fight so much. It was the most annoying one.

[@cjnf11]

Look how they massacred my girl...

[@MrMerildoll]

It's kinda funny but I just noticed "you only had to hollow out their heads" can be interpreted in an even less kind and more slut shaming way, than just referring to the mirror (or maybe I'm overthinking it, who knows)

[@Sirvanic]

I'm a OG BG1&2 player and they're my favorite games ever. I enjoyed BG3 very much and it felt like a great follow up with respect for its predecessors. I loved Jaheira and Minsc in BG3 but this Viconia was a real headscratcher for me. It felt like a real shoe in. I don't know if this was the last piece of content in the game and they were burnt out or whatever and just wanted to get it over with. But it felt like this Viconia was made by people who didn't care about the character, they just wanted to use the name for brand recognition. Like how Rian Johnson didn't care about Luke Skywalker. They wanted to get her out of the way so Rey Shadowheart could take over. Shadowheart is one of the first characters you meet and she's the only real support character and a hot half-elf chick so of course alot of people are gonna have her in the party. Also, most people won't "give her away" to Viconia when they've invested time and story into Shadowheart. It's heavily incentivized by the devs that you fight Viconia. She even drops the best shield in the game. I had Jaheira and Minsc in my party when Viconia revealed herself. I was hyped because these 3 shared two huge adventures together so I looked forward to the reunion and throwbacks. But then they barely had any banter. Huge let down for me as a fan of the old games. Viconia was also very beautiful in BG2 and here she looks like a mid hag. This was pretty much my only big gripe with an otherwise great game.

[@spacerapunzel]

ooooh i've been waiting to see reactions like this. as an og player, how did you find the dialogue from jaheira's basement & house with her kids and khalid? i've heard the necklace was a quest item in previous games and everything. oh, and the sarevok stuff! i brought jaheira and minsc to the trial by accident and got some really cool dialogue out of it, and also an auto fight, but like,, for og fans that weren't expecting a lot of real throwbacks, was it good? was it true to form?????? i'm just so invested in finding out your opinions.

[@absoliutlyorganic]

Yeah, Viconia was among my favorites in BG2 they did mess her up here😅 But then theres Minthara who reminds me of the old Viconia from BG1/2

[@Sirvanic]

@@spacerapunzel It was cool seeing something about her everyday life past BG2. Loved the basement part and how she just gave you snippets of past adventures and people. It was more fitting than her spilling everything out in a 5 minute monologue. I don't remember the pendant in past games but seeing the name Khalid and that Jaheira still had a memento of him even after 100ish years felt emotional. She even had some BG2 items like Staff of the Ram and Belm in there. For me it was a perfect scene for old BG fans. Just enough without going overboard with nostalgia bait. Overall, I liked that they didn't lean too much into BG1 and BG2 in BG3 (except some returning characters). Those incidents were over 100 years ago and it feels like every other decade there's a possible world ending war or event in Faerun. At this point the Bhaalspawn saga is just another past "happening" left for the history books. I read a book in game about old recollections of the Bhaalspawn and Irenicus. Then a few snippets about the Shadow Thieves and the Cowled Wizards. Even saw the tomb of Gorion in Baldur's Gate. It gave me just enough things to nod my head to and say "I remember that" without taking away the spotlight from BG3 itself. I love Sarevok but in my honest opinion his inclusion in BG3 tilts slightly into "shoe in" as well. I played a righteous Paladin in my first playthrough and it didn't take many conversation choices before the fight started. Even there it felt like him, Jaheira and Minsc didn't have much banter. So like Viconia it felt like within a span of 5 minutes he turns up, talks a little bit, starts a fight and then lies dead on the ground. Felt a bit anti climactic. Also, in my headcanon Sarevok is a level 40 fighter decked out in the best high fantasy gear wielding a Ravager +6 that would solo anything in BG3. My ToB Sarevok wouldn't get owned by a bunch of level 12 punks (but that's just me yelling at the clouds). During my Dark Urge run I liked his inclusion a little bit better, though. Still kind of felt like a shoe in but he had more dialogue and felt more fleshed out and like a character unlike Viconia.

[@Purple_Fox_LSA]

Did anyone else see viconias memories in the mirror of loss.

[@cassiemoyles4177]

Lmao this is amazing

[@glitterglamboy7]

That's not Viconia 😢

[@drno87]

Viconia's a lot friendlier if you just hand over Shadowheart.

[@ladyselin35]

And why would we do that?

[@timetochronicle]

​@@ladyselin35to be cartoonishly evil?

[@ladyselin35]

@@timetochronicle Why would you do that

[@timetochronicle]

@@ladyselin35 cos its a game. Its like having the choice to raid the grove. Or mass kill spawn to ascend Astarion. Or giving away Scratch. All morally bad options, but having interesting repercussions. Heck, I just finished a run where I puposefully failed the defense of Last Light, then made Shadowheart onto a Dark Justiciar. BG 3 is lauded not only for its choices, but also the depth of those choices.

[@vindicator879]

and she becomes hostile if you enter the room where shadowheart's parents are trapped and mirror of loss is located. So if you want those sweet sweet +2 (permanent) ability bonus for all your party members viconia and her minions have to die

[@joearnold6881]

None of this makes sense. Viconia got turned into 100xp ages ago.

[@molealto]

Shame Vicky doesn't look nearly as good as she does in BG2.

[@FenrirWolfganger]

I don't look as good as I did when BG2 first came out either.

[@Mr_Smith618]

@FenrirWolfganger but she's a full blooded elf and it's only been 100 years

[@FenrirWolfganger]

@@Mr_Smith618 Remember in BG1 she kept going "The Light! It burns!"? She wasn't using a high enough factor sun cream resulting in her skin prematurely aging. OR Blame the toxic effect of serving Shar. OR For some who always romanced Viconia we're pretending this isn't the real one, it's a clone or something, anything but our Vicky.

[@Mr_Smith618]

@FenrirWolfganger the third option is my headcanon too, she was my love interest in BG2

[@FenrirWolfganger]

@@Mr_Smith618 👍 Right on. It's already established that the official BG2 Post Script where she's single is propaganda (I.E. Waterdeep) so everything else is open also. Lolth's assassination failed, she and/or Shar did a cover up with a. Clone/ simulacrum/ patsy whatever. Where Vicky and Gorion's Ward are now I leave up to you and your head canon.

[@RoccoDeLuca-hb9ny]

i want to start with viconia is one of my favourites companions in any rpg games i've played, that being said it's nauseous to see so many people scream NOOOOO THIS ISN'T VICONIA. 1) abdel is the canon mc from bg1 and bg2 and he had a monkey brain 2) abdel only travelled with viconia a short moment 3) people forget that we literally see viconia in bg2 after she slaughtered a whole family 4) in her good endings she dies... also they are not canon (fuck wizards of the coast) 5) it makes a lot of sense she is like this here, let's not forget shar can wipe your memories and who knows what 100 years did to viconia and with a bit of mental gymnastic we can even assume that maybe a good ending where she doesn't dies it's canon but after 100 years she saw all her friends and lover dies and deciated herself to shar fully, if you want a head canon for your playtrough. 6) she was evil she is stil evil and if your counter argument is NOOOOO MY CANON VICONIA IS GOOD AND SPARED A CHILD IN MENZOBERRANZAN, well take it to wizards of the coast and start a crusade like caelar. I can give you this... Larian could have used another generic character for the mother superior role? yes, they didn't because of the shock effect of the character. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT GET! was the writing for her horrible? no, it's still true to her character! look into her chambers in the conclave shart will comment on some flowers she got back from suldanelssar now i may be coping my self into it, but that implies she travelled in bg2 with our char?? that's a bit confusing, the whole way shart said that implied that vic had some emotional attachments?

[@akumaangelus2999]

Abdel is a self insert from an asshole* who never played the games. EDIT: *I would like to amend the comment about the author being an asshole. I believe the author was thrown under the bus by Wizards of the Coast. * EDIT 2: Forgot to mention that the stuff below this edit are quoting from another post. I'm lethargic and can't be bothered to alter the original for total accuracy. lycantabris has proved some context and corrections. "The author, never played the game and wrote the book in less than 2 months Iirc during bg1's development with very little contact with the dev team. They published his first draft unedited." For those who want to know even more bullshit that these "canon" books provide ( I did not make this list but I have it prepared if ever someone brings up MIBG) SPOILERS/Saving you the agony "Abdel was a veteran mercenary. He was a chaotic neutral asshole. Imoens not even in the first novel. Korax is an important character. Gorion was just some dude who fights with a staff. Also pretty sure korax eats gorions body. Khalid was a vicious wife beater who cheats on jaheira and is murdered by abdel. Jaheira is a helpless damsel who's afraid of spiders and cheats on Khalid with abdel. She also may cast a spell just once in all three books. Also she gets killed either at the end of book two or three. Xan is a rogue who gets decapitated by cloakwood spiders. In the second novel imoen is in it and is randomly a lesbian halfway through. Minsc is a red headed bartender and only shows up in irenicus dunggeon for some reason. Imoen becomes the slayer/ravaged and is killed by abdel. Abdel sleeps wth and kills bodhi who also convinces him to kill Arab linvail a middling rogue who sleeps around. Pretty sure abdel just uses an unenchanted bastard sword and chain shirt through the entire series including fighting sarevok irenicus the ravager etc. he's like a level 4 character. Also he's ridiculously strong and has inherent regeneration."

[@music79075]

​@@akumaangelus2999lmfao

[@tranngockha6562]

​@@akumaangelus2999 Yo, the "Canon" is crazy. Thanks for sharing

[@lycantabris]

@@akumaangelus2999 I just finished the first book. Khalid wasn't a wife beater. That was the conclusion what's his face drew seeing the bruise that ABDEL inflicted on Jaheira when he mistook her for an intruder when she came to him in the middle of the night. Khalid also survived the attack Abdel made against him and died to a curse shortly after being saved.

[@byebyebeta]

Who cares what the books had, most people who played the game never read them. This is Baldurs Gate 3 and was marketed as a sequel to the games, not the book. They ignored all potential character development she had.

[@teampower7820]

BG3 dialogue so verbose, I find myself zoning out. BG2 is better written.

[@hanspeter2384]

OK my Bahlspawn from BG 2 is very pissed now and want to spank his old Drow girl very hard.

[@hordinaryplayers]

God I completely forgot she was even in the other games until I had this moment happen. It's little things like this that really made Act 3 so satisfying

[@salazar556]

Man, I wish I knew about Baldur's Gate before this one came out. I bet it was cool for the long time fans to see this.

[@pekomsneko7667]

god damn Viconia still fine as hell hoping the DLC characters will be included in a dlc Neera all the way

[@sexyitalian891]

Doesn't sound like her at all. The old voice actor was much better.

[@FanOfDaUnderAppreciated]

They sound, look, and feel nothing like the OG versions of these characters. Especially Viconia; I just want her to stop talking, shut up. My disappointment is profound.

[@craghack4700]

This is not Viconia. In BG-1/BG-2, she went against the will of Lloth in order not to kill the child, lost her brother because of this, got to the surface, where she was shunned or attacked because she was a drow and now this? Is she serving a new goddess who essentially told her to do the same and she decided not to contradict this time? And she looks old, how old was she then in the first games, 500? I am very disappointed

[@thomasjoychild4962]

I mean, Shar is established to delete memories and bits of her followers' minds, not just to make them more useful to her but also just for fun and spite. It wouldn't surprise me if she's deleted a whole lot of Viconia's mind over the decades.

[@craghack4700]

@@thomasjoychild4962 This would explain a lot, it's a pity Larian didn't think of it

[@thomasjoychild4962]

@@craghack4700 It's not explicitly said, no, but it sort of fits all the stuff the game's been saying about Shar and her worship. Shar doesn't let you stay a good person, the deeper you get into being her follower. I don't think Larian DIDN'T think of it. I don't think the tormentor/mentor figure for Shadowheart NEEDED to be Viconia (particularly if she was gonna look old, Viconia would only be about 200 now) but she WAS the Shar-associated person from the previous games. They can't have been unaware a good few really liked her though, even if she already didn't have a happy ending in the previous games.

[@craghack4700]

@@thomasjoychild4962 I was quite satisfied with her endings in the game, that death from the servants of Lloth or that the destruction of the cult of Shar in Waterdeep in spite of her goddess (first she fucked Lloth, then Shar, this woman is a real gigachad). But no, they decided to use this lame canon. It would be better if they didn't return it than like this.

[@irishdrunkass]

3 minute vid, 1 line each...............

[@yavvivvay]

That boobah reduction didn't serve viconia well.

[@nonyabisness6306]

gee, thanks larian for ruining the legacy characters, how very kind of you.

[@anthony_hw]

what happened to Vickie's bewbs?!

[@thejwvariety]

tbh viconia is more cvnt than all three of them combined edit: leaving karlach out because she's good

[@saint_banshler8495]

that part killed the entire game for me - poorly written and they understood nothing about the character

[@rambo171993]

Daily reminder that they completely assassinated her character in bg3.

[@Chopstorm.]

It was already assassinated. Read her lore.

[@seanbirtwistle649]

@@Chopstorm. lol. they need menzoberranzan in future dlc

[@leopard2690]

The angry bg2 fans are so funny. What you did does not matter, wotc made an official bg1/2 Canon (mostly for worse) long before larian touched the Franchise . They need to keep close to the canon as official Product Evil viconia is Literaly the only thing that makes sense for a drow AND shar worshipper. You Literaly can't be not evil for long if You worship shar in a high Position

[@MrTrayjenkins]

thank you mr. esl, your incorrectly spelled words of wisdom are truly something

[@nunya_bizniz]

In my headcanon this is a doppelganger. One of the reasons this is not a 10/10 game. It's still amazing but some things they did are just ignorant from the perspective of anyone who played bg1&2. If you never played those then she is just another evil crazy bad guy and you probably have no idea about her connections to bg1&2. If you played 1&2 this probably made you nauseous.

[@KingslayerSrb]

I played 1 & 2 probably more than you, and I thought it was fine. 100 years have passed, and Viconia was always an awful person.

[@The_winds_of_change]

Viconia was always a shitty person. Plus 100 years have past since bg1&2, so yeah, I thought the character was portrayed well

[@FenrirWolfganger]

​@@KingslayerSrbFrom BG:TOB "Viconia: Sarevok, may I share a whispered word with you? Sarevok Anchev: Yes, drow? What is it you want? Viconia: I miss the customs of my homeland, like the breaking in of new pleasure slaves." Lots of people give up bad habits every day, most are back on them within a couple of months.

[@beachesandhose2374]

Keep puffing that copium

[@nunya_bizniz]

@beachesandhose2374 I have 500+ hours and one complaint and this idiot waited so long to use the new word he learned on the internet. Good for you little buddy.

[@patrickbeam9615]

This isn't the real Vicky. More doppelgänger BS. BG3 is so damn close to perfect but doing Viconia dirty like this is an egregious sin. I don't care about this canon nonsense, Congress or Microsoft or God should have intervened to save the most epic companion in all of Baldur's Gate from such an ignoble fate.

[@thomasjoychild4962]

I mean, Shar is established to delete memories and bits of her followers' minds, not just to make them more useful to her but also just for fun and spite. It wouldn't surprise me if she's deleted a whole lot of Viconia's mind over the decades.

[@talananiyiyaya8912]

I say to anyone that will listen that the quality of the storytelling in bg3 is like a bad fanfic compared to bg2

[@seanbirtwistle649]

bg3 is a different league of storytelling for any rpg. where it falls short is from its complexity, something i think they'll be busy tidying up for a long time. i suspect they might have had more planned for her - the whole upper district of baldurs gate might have gotten scrapped because of time

[@talananiyiyaya8912]

@@seanbirtwistle649 No, it falls short on the believability of the options you're given during dialogue, the way you go about discovering what your goal is and more generally how you go about it. It's not in a league of its own, it's towards the bottom of the league of older more well thought out storied CRPGs such as BG2 and planescape. Its "complexity" didn't hamper it - the poor writing hampered it. I suspect those praising its story and dialogue have either not played the true classics in the genre and/or don't do any/much reading.

[@seanbirtwistle649]

@@talananiyiyaya8912 I have no idea what you're going on about. If you haven't noticed most RPGs are linear without a lot of choice, save for one or two plot changing decisions. They get away with it because most choice is over loot you want. Bg2 was an amazing world - it's still my faerun when I picture it. But it's still about a bunch of murder hobos doing "good deeds" for rewards. Name a single choice in bg2 you made because of plot. It's a book. A good book, but still a book. Play a chaotic evil character in bg2 and see how well that goes. Lawful good characters have zero hard choices to make. "Why are you doing this? Because I'm a paladin..." Bg3 is praised because it tries to get you to write your own story and own the choices you make. It's not perfect, but there's a good reason almost every rpg doesn't do it

[@LordKamos777]

Why are you so stuck in the past?

[@talananiyiyaya8912]

@@LordKamos777 I'm not.

[@Hydrosphere13]

Wow they butchered Viconia.