What Happens If You Quench a Blade in ________?!

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[@stephenleggett4243]

Snapping them and looking at the grain structure would have been a cool addition.

[@spikedaddy46]

100% agree. Ofc the water quench is going to harden the steel, however, I feel like it would be quite brittle vs the quenching oil.

[@Talon18136]

Yes

[@hendrikvanleeuwen9110]

@@spikedaddy46 both would have to be tempered after quenching, so that is a moot point.

[@erikcourtney1834]

Water would get it 1-2 points harder vs the parks 50. And vegetable oil would be 2-3 points lower than the parks 50. All 3 would still be very brittle. Tempering solves the brittle problem depending on the temperature used. The problem isn’t that water gets it to hard. The problem (air, oil quench steels, and thin steel) is that it martensite is formed to quickly causing huge stresses on the steel making it tear apart. Which is a crack or a complete break.

[@lukearts2954]

Or sending them to Alex at @OUTDOORS55 to run a million hardness tests... ;)

[@Merennulli]

Regarding the blood quench - it only works in the blood of your enemies. You have to make a mortal enemy of whatever animal you got the blood from first. If the blood came from annoying cattle that just sort of chuckled when your katar build didn't work out, then the quench won't be as hard.

[@justinpyle3415]

Excellent point! The hatred in the blood is what makes your steel harder

[@randominternetbro6562]

You have inspired lyrics for some metalcore music I'm working on.

[@Merennulli]

@@randominternetbro6562 Admittedly, I've listened to more Bardcore than Metalcore, but I'm glad to be of service to the arts. :)

[@burningcole2538]

What about your own blood? Literally putting body and soul into your blade sounds very badass, if tedious to drain enough of your own blood without killing yourself

[@Merennulli]

@@burningcole2538 Well, that would definitely work for me. I'm my own worst enemy.

[@deathmetalmiri]

I'd have liked to see a test of brittleness after each one! I've always heard that the reason water quenches are generally bad isn't because they don't harden the blade, but because they overharden and leave the steel brittle.

[@andyc750]

that is dealt with in the tempering process, and also how hard the steel can get is entirely dependant on the alloying materials in the steel, also some steels will harden in water but not oil

[@TexasTdr]

Call me crazy but this felt more like your old videos! Raw and just fun. Do more like this if you can dude! Love it

[@SHIEET817]

Was this before selling out and shilling products

[@rhysdolan7378]

@@SHIEET817 sold out big time

[@cornonjacob]

I'm taking a course at University right now about engineering alloys, the first few weeks of the class have been spent on the various structures and compositions of steels. We just went over the impact of various cooling rates caused by different quenching media yesterday! It's been super fun learning in depth the science behind all the amazing blacksmithing I see on this channel

[@graciouscompetentdwarfrabbit]

Materials engineering is both super cool and a friggin' nightmare. The subjects that touched MatE have been my favorite to *learn about* but my least favorite to actually study and try to wrap my head around.

[@liam7342]

From what I can find quenching knives made of modern steels is largely pointless as knives are small enough that they cool rapidly enough in air. The recommended quenching oil is aimed at tonnes of steel.

[@graciouscompetentdwarfrabbit]

​@@liam7342 while they cool rapidly in air, that isn't air quenching (at least not for knives). Air quenching requires forced air, i.e., it's air being blown directly at the steel. I only make this distinction because the way you phrased in your comment makes it seem like simple natural convection is fast enough, and it isn't. I would also add (though, iirc, he mentioned it in the video) that there are reasons why one would use a particular oil over water or air. It could be the hardness that you are aiming for, or to have a more predictable outcome as too much internal stresses from cooling too rapidly (or asymmetrically) is more likely to cause the knife to bend or, even worse, break.

[@andyc750]

@@liam7342 nope, completely wrong, it does however anneal the steel to a degree and is how normalising the steel is done

[@nickdovgi]

@@liam7342 Most custom folder makers who use modern stainless steel's designed for knives usually quench by air cooling or using two aluminum plates to keep the blade straight, sometimes the plates are water cooled aswell but you are correct in your thinking.

[@Dustins_Woodworking]

Doing this on different metals would be cool as well. I am sure certain materials are more prone to cracking or warping.

[@TheS4ndm4n]

Actually, that kind of hardening mechanism only works with steel, due to the so-called allotropy of iron. At 723 - 911°C (depending on how much carbon it contains, which is up to 2%) the iron switches its structure to a configuration, where it can hold more carbon between its atoms. When cooled quicky enough, that the carbon can't escape in time, the iron wants to switch back, "trapping" the carbon and creating great tension within the structure, which we percieve as hardness. Other metals can be hardened by heat treating, but in a different way.

[@wyatts7813]

@@TheS4ndm4n different types of steel quench differently like w2 can use water

[@TheS4ndm4n]

True, I just didn't think of that as "different materials". They are of course, though Alec isn't exactly famous for being picky with his steel alloys...

[@mwiz100]

A lot of these results make sense because when you get down to it a lot of them are fundamentally mostly water, therefore their quench performance is similar to that of.... water. Now once we started to get into different viscosities of them that showed some interesting results! The trick to revisiting this would be to find things that are not water based (but also wouldn't be toxic once heated up too...)

[@killgaet6253]

Me omw to quench in benzene (I now have horrific cancer)

[@lea255ace]

It looks like you had a blast filming this! The ketchup doesn't fill in the steam jacket because it is non-Newtonian, and only flows when a shear force is applied (which is why hitting the bottle makes it flow out). If you want a proper ketchup quench, you need to set up your quenching tube on a vibrating table to make sure the ketchup makes good contact with the blade!

[@ZACKMAN2007]

I didn't know ketchup is a non nutoion fluid

[@Hawk013]

From what I understand, anvil foundrys used to be located by waterfalls because a high volume and pressure of the flowing water was the only way they could pull heat from the surface fast enough to get a good hardness. So you can overcome the steam barrier through pure mechanical means. I've also used what we call a "super quench", a brine/dishsoap/surficant solution that minimizes the bubbles that can cling to the metal, so more heat transfer occurs. Not good for high carbon steels, as mentioned cooling too quickly tends to shatter them. You do rather need to tailor your quench process to your alloy and desired result. Also, I used to drive by the plant where they make that ketchup, I'll never forget the scent of burning vinegar and tomato paste...

[@Finwolven]

Getting enough heat off a 200 pound or bigger anvil for a good hardening quench must be a right pain! I can well imagine using some kind of spraying/high-flowing water to make it cool down fast enough. Very interesting!

[@princecharon]

Honestly, I still think the most advantageous use for a blood quench is in a fantasy or horror novel, but apparently it's not terrible... and now I'm wondering about a Viking axehead quenched in a mix of blood and honey or blood and mead.

[@CERBERASX01]

thats a dnd custom item if ive ever heard of one

[@Gameboygenius]

Using the blood for quenching is still rookie level for a fantasy setting. If you're not collecting the blood from all your enemies, extracting the iron and making a sword from it, what are you even doing with your life?

[@RyoHazuki224]

Definitely sounds like some old Viking thing "I shall quench my blade in the blood of my enemies!!" haha

[@TheGrayfrog100]

@@Gameboygenius you just made an old D&D guy spit his drink out laughing! EPIC comment !

[@sayianstakepain]

more like 70% water and 30% blood

[@az678910]

I listened to your older videos on quenching, I knew this already :D Thanks for the creativity!

[@meatball1974]

This was great. I use 80CRV2 a lot, i've had good results in Canola and stepped up to Parks 50 a long time ago. It would be very constructive to have seen an approximate temperature prior to the quench and if you'd used a Hardness Tester to quantify your results - even for the more frivolous choices. Entertaining and educational as always!

[@jefeglancy]

Another easy metric would have been how long it took to quench.

[@zachaliles]

Fun fact, that steam jacket you're talking about has a name, or term of you will. It's called liedenfrost effect. The liquid isn't actually touching the metal, but instead boiling off before it hits the surface from the extreme heat, until it drops below a certain temperature.

[@davidchudleigh1249]

He does mention this in the video

[@sjaakbral83]

Leidenfrost

[@zachaliles]

@@davidchudleigh1249 not by name though. Which was the point of my comment.

[@zachaliles]

@@sjaakbral83 I thought I spelled it wrong, only got the I and E mixed up.

[@mathieugrenier5811]

And thats why you should move the part in figure of 8 to avoid gas bubbles between the part and the quenching media

[@panikrev175]

Would be cool to see you do this with several types of steel, O1, A2, mild. And also the some of the more typical fluids like ATF, gear oil, used motor oil, as well as chilled brine, ice water or compressed air.

[@regularpit1508]

I agree that would be awesome

[@joshuagibson2520]

Throw in D2 and S7 as well.

[@p38sheep]

Upvote!

[@ironhead2008]

Used motor oil might be interesting, too. From both gas and diesel engines

[@rowyngilfillan5113]

Have heard about "super quench" liquids which are briney with a bit of soap usually as a surfactant to break surface tension and harden so quickly that even mild steel can be hardened a bit; would be interesting to see what this would do with some good knife steel!

[@sportsfamily77]

I worked in a shop for 10 years that had an induction heat treat that hardened and tempered ball pins (ball joint component) for cars and trucks. We used a purpose-made polymer quenchant (aquatensid) that was water soluble at room temperature and fell out of solution when it was sprayed on the hot parts to coat them in a polymer to prevent oxygen from impregnating the surface. We also used a nitrogen atmosphere in the quenching tunnel. It slowed the quench velocity of water down to something more similar to oil without having to worry about all of the fumes and fire risk associated with oil. This machine would take a ball pin from room temperature and heat it up to 1600° f in 3 seconds, It would run about 24,000 parts a day. The monthly electric bill for that machine alone was about 30,000 US dollars.

[@JathTech]

Quench it in molten bismuth, gallium, or lead. A quench I've wanted to see for a long time is basically throwing the blade hard into a deep pool of liquid so it travels quickly through the liquid coming in contact with a much fresh cool liquid as possible without being effected by the Leidenfrost effect. Perhaps if that doesn't work, you could attach the blade to a line weighted down and drag it through deep water at high velocities with say, a wave runner or a speed boat.

[@Cashwho]

Now that is a good idea!

[@Artaimus]

Be hard to do, but if you set up on a dock you could conceivably do it.

[@giggityguy]

I mean, proper quenching technique is already supposed to counteract the worst of the Leidenfrost effect; you'll notice how Alec continuously shakes the blade up and down to prevent vapor from forming a jacket and insulating the blade too much. Also, as Alec mentioned, cooling a blade too quickly can sometimes cause warping or even snapping.

[@JathTech]

@@giggityguy YES, but not enough. And the whole point is too see it snap or not.

[@MrDuno9]

Maybe you wouldn't get the same high-flow you're talking about but just quenching in a stream or some other moving body of water would be much easier than trying to get the blade to move through. Quench the blade with a fire hose or something maybe

[@adilhussain3124]

I love how alec shouted out nate. I watch you both and seeing something inspired by him made my day.

[@ArvexYT]

The one I've heard from blacksmiths was used motor oil. If you change your car's oil or have a friend who does, you can re-use that oil for quenching blades. Though I suspect it wouldn't be anything special to add to a follow up video beyond letting beginner blacksmiths know about it. Might be fun to see a salt water quench just to see if it can ruin a blade. Even try different levels of saltiness up to ocean water levels of salt. See if tea or coffee is better for quenching?

[@TryAThingLearnAThing]

I feel like the ketchup and blood both were mostly water with a high volume of organic compounds suspended within (Both are sometimes referred to as a type of collioid). My best guess would be the water content immediately surrounding the blade boils off quickly leaving a sort of jacket of scorched organic matter that is thicker and drier than the rest of the liquid and works to protect the blade from the liquid

[@alexbayley8699]

Great video as usual, how about new engine oil vs used engine oil for the carbon in the used oil! Keep making great entertaining videos 👍🏻

[@cornonjacob]

Carbon really only gets mixed into the steel when it is being produced from the melt, it's getting no where near hot enough to incorporate more carbon in any meaningful way. Maybe a tiny change right at the very surface, but I doubt anything substantial. How all the grime in the used oil affects how well it cools the steel might be interesting to see

[@pojeby]

quenching in used engine oil makes your entire shop reek of burnt engine oil for weeks

[@dragonwing4ever]

the carbon won't make the slightest difference at all, thats just an old wives tale

[@Jordan.Buckley]

I think you need to make a butter knife and quench it in melted butter!

[@rediflow]

Suggestions for further experiments? → WD40 (Highly interested in that experiment → A Block of Butter (which has to meld through the knives heat first and then provides the quenching liquid...) → Snow → Gasoline / Diesel / Cerosine (High Danger expected) → leftover Gravy from e.g. a turkey feast → Milk → Applejuice → any sort of ice cream (without any chunks of anything) → and now the disgusting on: have a night out with Jamie, drink lot's of beer and collect your pee.. don't forget your Nose plugs during the quench 🙂 - okay, Urin consist of 95% Water and the rest is a various composition of Urea, Chloride, Sodium, Potassium, Creatinine, inorganic sulfur and minimal amounts of some other stuff like ammonia, phosphorus, different acids like citrus, uric, glucuronic, hippuric etc... So, I would expect it be similar to the the water quench, with a significant worse smell.

[@nobody8717]

a worse smell, and some instant corrosion, sure. gross. But butter might actually work better than you'd think.

[@rediflow]

@@nobody8717 but will it work as a block of butter?

[@vlanoik]

I think there is a myth of swords being quenched with the urine of a redheaded boy for the origin of steel

[@chstoney]

I made similar experiment with the steel that I mostly make my knives from (N690). Unsurprisingly I got the best result with the recommended quenching medium but all other options worked reasonably well too, including air quenching and plate quenching - they were ever so slightly softer than the oil-quenched sample, but still hard enough for good blade. Thus for thin blades from this steel I am using plate quenching to reduce warp, and for thicker blades I use oil.

[@TheCharles303]

I would be curious about vinegar, mustard, relish, motor oil, transmission fluid, and denatured alcohol or isopropyl. Also, is it possible to quench between copper or aluminum blocks?

[@colinselfridge3935]

Motor oil, new vs used or budget vs premium.

[@trophyscars7364]

i was also curious about transferring the heat into some metal or material that absorbs heat and isnt a liquid but id also like to see high proof alcohol thats been sitting in the freezer for a day or two.

[@knickly]

That's called a plate quench, which is commonly used for stock removal knives using air hardening steels!

[@Merennulli]

@@knickly Thank you. I felt like I'd heard of something like that before but didn't know the name.

[@lokitakahashi3042]

water quenching or snow quenching in particular is something you can see in some very old books about blacksmithing.

[@drjmansplace5174]

May I suggest quenching in mustard? Old folklore is mustard can help prevent blistering if you accidentally minorly burn your hand; suggesting heat dissipation.

[@davidming215]

You should have broken the each of the blades to see the cell structure of the internal's acidity look like Outside was definitely hard on a lot of those but there's no telling what it looked like on the inside of there any micro Fractures

[@davidming215]

@@Its_Captain_Jack_Sparrow Sorry the grammar in front of you Asian is pretty bad my thumbs are currently disabled so I can't use my keyboard so everything is current speaking text So you want to be a grammar nazi go somewhere else

[@Zelmel]

I'd be curious to see what would happen trying to quench in a solid fat like lard, butter, or shortening. It could make a bad jacket like the ketchup did, but it would also melt to a pretty thin liquid fairly quickly I'd imagine.

[@BruceAEvans-qe5mv]

in wayne goddards $50.00 knife shop book he has a recipe for lard and parafin wax mixed as a quench medium,It works great on 5160,been using it for 20+ years now even passed my abs js cut and bend using it.

[@edelta88]

Jello, hot sauce, milk, jam, mustard, pickle brine... and actually I'm curious to see if there's a difference between alcohol types/proofs. Like, which quenches better, wine or whiskey? I have no idea why this is popping into my head now but there it is.

[@thesqueeeps]

I feel like this would be fun to do with other steels to see the difference like 1095 and 5160 spring steel

[@Jackie_XIII]

If you do a part 2 I want to see what it looks like being quenched in distilled white vinegar. Plus it would smell amazing lol

[@DjDolHaus86]

It'd clear your sinuses, that's for sure

[@Bloatedbark35236]

A restaurant I used to work at had a big grill that we'd clean with vinegar. Having it steam into your eyes and nose is awful. You can almost taste it and feel it going from your nose back to your mouth. Definitely DON'T RECOMMEND! Unless you have a stuffed up nose or want to smell like cat piss.

[@seanthompson6720]

add milk and other beverages, cough syrup, liquid soap or bubble juice, wood glue, hot sauce, motor oil, wet cement to the list

[@scatdawg1]

My eyes are watering

[@jasonsummit1885]

Maybe pickle juice but not white vinegar.😂

[@jww24]

Is there a difference in result between a horizontal quench vs a vertical quench? And if so, is there a difference in outcome when you put the edge in first vs edge on top?

[@nSnowCrow]

You shouldn’t quench next to the wall of your container. That way your sides will cool down unevenly and warp the blade.

[@joepiejaapie]

I study life sciences, so I have to work with micro organisms in the lab. We use ethanol to sterilize certain tools, and you burn off the alcohol before use. Sometimes you get the order of operations wrong and insert the hot/burning tool into the beaker of ethanol... definitely not a large threat, just cover the beaker and you're allright, if you panic however and knock the beaker over, then you have a problem.

[@aserta]

Used motor oil. I've been using it to darken and rust proof metal, it does make things much harder than they were originally.

[@Volt64bolt]

That’s what I always use, only issue is the fumes. Just make sure to pre warm it

[@betafishjeremy7454]

@@Volt64bolt it's not consistent and very carcinogenic. Not something anyone should use for hardening blades. Unfortunately this video is just going to do the blade smithing community disservice because a bunch of people are now going to think using some of these things are ok. Just save the money for good oil it's really not that expensive even compared to the alternatives.

[@bow-tiedengineer4453]

@@betafishjeremy7454 I wouldn't diss the food oil quench, but anything else is a stupid idea.

[@bow-tiedengineer4453]

word of warning: a lot of motor oils contain additives that are very, very bad to breathe in, so I would strongly recommend not using that, or at least wearing a respirator while quenching. It isn't too bad as a liquid, but you are going to burn/vaporize some of it while quenching, and you don't want to be breathing those fumes.

[@Volt64bolt]

@@betafishjeremy7454 as long as you preheat it the consistency is fine. As far as the fumes go they aren’t as carcinogenic as other common things and I doubt your quenching a blade every day so as long as you don’t breath in the fumes your fine. I think most people understand that this video is meant to just see what it does rather than oh look you can use this wacky liquid to quench in. Yes saving the money for good oil is a good idea however I don’t have the time to make a proper quench tank and I am not spilling 50 quids worth of oil every few months and for my the motor oil is free and thus is the easiest option atm.

[@banichi2269]

Would have been nice to see each one tested for what hardness it ended up at, then broken to see internal grain structure. Then maybe even temper them and test hrc and break again.

[@darwinfish399]

As other comment have suggested a grain analysis of different quenching mediums with my personal suggestion to include a mercury quench. I've heard it has been used for some tools requiring extreme hardness.

[@mikchrungBLADES]

Hey Alec I'm a very very amateur knife maker and i want to know how different steels respond to different cooling medium...please please please do a video about steel being quenched in oil,water or alluminium plate etc and do a review about how it affect the strength of the steel after quenching in different medium. You are the only youtuber who would do what your viewers want to see. I looooove your channel...

[@1Superzip]

would be interesting to do this again with thinner steel, since potential warping will be much worse. also try water again but this time with soap to remove surface tension. (and have bubbles?)

[@kevinsykes1137]

Dip it in Viagra gets really hard 😂😂😂

[@justsomeperson5110]

I second the motion for showing the grain structure. I am wondering about mineral oil? And old used nasty motor oil?

[@kentjohnson6844]

Ketchup is actually a non-Newtonian fluid. It's basically a solid at rest, that's why hitting the bottom of the bottle moves it, the jarring changes the ketchup into a liquid state. It's the opposite of oobleck (cornstarch and water) which is liquid a rest and changes to solid when impacted. So it's not surprising that quench didn't work, because the ketchup wouldn't have been flowing around the blade in it's solid resting state.

[@frenchblacksmithedits280]

One time i had a steel that was supposed to be quenched in water so I did and it cracked terribly. I tried again but this time I did more research and I found that adding soap in the water can slow down the cooling process. Some other people said salt could also do the trick. I added both soap and salt, I also heated up the water and it still cracked the 2nd time lol, but it might be interesting to see if those actually work

[@Merennulli]

Quenching steel in salt water seems like a terrible idea from a chemical standpoint. (EDIT: To be clear, I'm in full support of seeing it tried out by Alec, I'm just expecting disaster.)

[@panikrev175]

@@Merennulli saltwater or ‘brine’ quenching is fast and severe, but is used on steels that typically have low hardenability.

[@Merennulli]

@@panikrev175 Interesting. I thought it would cause cracking and pitting.

[@panikrev175]

@@Merennulli on a high carbon steel, yes very likely to crack or warp or develop a defect due to temperature shock and internal stresses, which is why oil quenches are most common(slower cooling=less stress). But for a low grade steel, something with relatively low carbon content for example, that may not take a hardening in oil, may achieve some hardness with the faster quench.

[@Merennulli]

@@panikrev175 Thank you for taking the time to explain. :)

[@ehsnils]

Just be careful with some oils like vegetable oil - the flash point might be reached and that could give you a bad day. What I would see is actually the difference in quenching time. Sometimes it's just the surface you want to be hardened while you'd want to avoid a too hard and brittle core. This is sometimes the case for some tools where it's better that they bend rather than break but still have a surface that is strong.

[@PermireFabrica]

Keep in mind also commercial quenching oil keeps on getting on fire. It's not dangerous per se, but you have to keep in mind that it can happen.

[@hadinossanosam4459]

If you want less-hardened items, tempering is probably still a better (easier, more consistent and predictable) option than messing around with the hardening

[@jort93z]

It's fine. Sometimes the oil lights on fire. The commercial stuff as well. The flash point of vegetable oil is actually HIGHER than that of the commercial oil he used. Quench oil 50 has a flashpoint of 220°C, vegetable oil of around 315°C. You just put it out afterwards.

[@Yupppi]

Question: does the appropriate oil also provide some additional features/benefits to the blade and especially the surface other than dissipating heat quickly and possibly changing the inner tensions of the blade?

[@acada6594]

Quickest quench beside quenching between copper plates is water solution of AS140 salt. I think the cooling speed was increasing up to 30% solution and then not so much. On the other side the NaCl solution was also quick, but increase of the % in solution was helping up to 10% and then it was decreasing I think. My theory was the salt crystal were too big in denser solution. Anyway it was long time ago so I am fishing it from my memory. The graduation work is in my attic.

[@johnjones4019]

Can you somehow do tests on how temperature of the quench liquids effects it? Colder liquid vs warm liquid? Or what happens if you do two different quenches, first splash into water, then cool the rest in an oil?

[@DjDolHaus86]

You can definitely do hardness tests using a set of graded files, they're not too expensive if memory serves

[@marktownsend2384]

Great video guys! Obviously I don't want to suggest anything too dangerous but has anyone considered a Bleach quench? I know it's a powerful oxidiser and causes metals to rust rapidly, but would it have any interesting properties if you quenched in it? Enquiring minds want to know!

[@DylanCameron92]

I work at an old train wheel forging plant called Standard Steel from Burnham, PA USA. I gotta say it would make for an awesome youtube video if you set up a tour. We're the only place that forges and not casts train wheels in America. I work on a press that spins at 120 rpms and usually the top die sits at a 7 degree angle as it presses the train wheel. The TV show how its made actually did a segment about the standard steel. Alec steele you should definitely get a tour set up here for your video

[@p38sheep]

Would live to see some of the common oils avaliable like motor oil (used and new) ATF stuff like that.

[@davidturner7612]

Awesome video...can you do hammer/axe handles made from wood at big box stores like poplar, cedar, pine, etc...and why hickory and ash are preferable woods to use

[@jort93z]

Hickory is pretty shock resistant. Makes for a very robust handle. Oak and Ash work as well.

[@justsomerandomguy8210]

This is honestly a great idea for KZbin, but I feel like I’m going to hate it

[@dabdailyduffycalifornia]

A little critical there buddy if you hate it dont watch sounds like a personal problem

[@Duckrabbit_Forging]

Que the smell of burning food

[@bondsaway9000]

@@dabdailyduffycalifornia if you hate a comment don’t read it.

[@dabdailyduffycalifornia]

@@bondsaway9000 same goes for you lmfao

[@bondsaway9000]

@@dabdailyduffycalifornia I don’t hate your comment just think it’s stupid.

[@AntwonDaBusiness]

Next you should test how different REAL quenching oils can effect the same blanks. Could be interesting

[@jort93z]

I don't think they have the setup to really tell the small differences between them.

[@AntwonDaBusiness]

@@jort93z a hardness tester? Haha Rockwell hardness files? I’m sure they can figure that out dude haha

[@jort93z]

​@@AntwonDaBusiness That's not the only thing. First they have to control the temperature, they'll need a heat treating oven, no point in comparing them with a blowtorch or a gas forge. They'll want to put it into the quenchant the same way, and hold it in the same orientation for the same amount of time. Just winging it won't do. They'll also need to test the harness. Files wouldn't be precise enough, they would need a proper tester. They will likely want to test the toughness, with some impact device. They will probably also want to cut it open any analyze the grain structure. as different oils will harden to a different depth. The testing methods in the video will likely not show the differences between them.

[@AntwonDaBusiness]

@@jort93z he has heat treating ovens dude

[@jort93z]

@@AntwonDaBusiness Well, i am not sure he used them. Either way, the other points are still issues. It didn't seem nearly scientic enough to tell differences between different quenching oils when it barely manages to show differences between vodka and quenching oil, lol.

[@rasmis]

When you're quenching, I often think about attaching the metal to a jigsaw-like device, that rapidly shakes it, making any bubbles detatch from the surface. It could be interesting to compare such a quench with a non-moving blade and a hand-moved blade.

[@carlwebster4217]

Need to try Goddards Goo ( invented by Wayne Goddard). To quench your blades. It consists of equal parts transmission fluid and olive oil. Then you melt a couple of candles and add to the mixture. When cool it goes to a solid then when you put your blade in it goes to a liquid. Great for edge quenching.

[@ZeroTRK]

I have a few that might be interesting Antifreeze Motor Oil (Maybe New and used) hydraulic Oil Transmission Fluid Break Fluid Drain Cleaner (Curious as to what an Acid might do during a quench) Personal Lube (Funzies) Liquid Gallium (Melts at about the bodies temperature. Might need a pre heating) Note: I think quenching a metal with another metal might be interesting. I am curious if a thin layer of alloy will develop) I have a ton more i can think of. But Quenching in something like Mercury Might be too dangerous.

[@scotyarborough4403]

antifreeze would be weird quench. however your definitely going to want ventilate. also would love to see how long it takes to normalize a piece in a vacuum via vacuum pump.

[@magicman12b]

Motor oil 10w-40 / Transmission Oil / Shampoo or Conditioner / Sparkling Water / Regular Milk or Coconut Milk / Beer

[@UnwovenSleeve]

Now I wanna see more of these Milk quench, salt water quench, spaghetti-o’s, nacho cheese sauce, soy sauce, urine, or eggs

[@0bserver00]

What I'm intersted in, if there is a quench that give just the right hardness- softness balance that you can skip the heat treating part. Heat treating is probably the biggest challenge for a backyard smith as they don't usually have sophisticated forge or oven for the precise heat control.

[@sphiralstudios]

What about an emulsion of oil and water? I've also wondered about vibrating the quench liquid sonic / supersonically, as in from a surface transducer(s) on the tank, and playing with tuning different wavelengths based on tank or blade dimensions, or quench liquid bubble size maybe. Or attaching a surface transducer to the tang. But don't have a workshop to try any of that (yet)

[@sealdoggydog]

Could it be that a lot of the industry standard quenching methods were developed back when the metals being used were perhaps less reliable or impure, wheras today the metals you're using are generally of a higher quality and less likely to vary from one batch to another resulting in a better tolerance to 'less than desirable' quenching methods?

[@karlpron]

What about testing the hardness with the hardness tester to show the difference between quenching mediums?

[@tamasorban4599]

quenching is about the speed of the cooling. On the contact surface between the fluid and the heated piece the temperature won't be higher than the boiling point of the given liquid and a vapor layer is formed which also has an insulating effect. If the liquid has a higher boiling point is more likely better for quenching. But of course the size, the desired hardness and the content of carbon, etc.. has to be considered.

[@creach34]

I was always told that used motor oil is something that can be used to harden a blade. Used because it picks up carbon from the engine, the burning fuel, and other elements that go through the engine. One time I was told diesel engine oil was better. I was told that in the 90s by people that are much older. I would imagine that they were talking about nonsynthetic oil. I do not know if that would make a difference between nonsynthetic and synthetic.

[@thebluestig2654]

How about quenching in new and/or used motor oil for cars/motorcycles? Maybe try some of the other seed oils like grapeseed oil or olive oil. Or what about quenching in WD-40 if you can find the liquid non-aerosol form of the stuff? Or how about a quench in Ferric Chloride, your etching liquid? Would a quench in that have a pronounced effect on a Damascus blade?

[@GTJay]

Love this! Great Idea to have the clear container.

[@IndianaTony]

Now I'm curious what the ferric chloride would do if you quenched in it and if there would be any rapid etching or coloration changes.

[@Cliffdog01]

If you try this again, you should try more fragile steel, such as the kinds you've had trouble quenching in the past. Also, I'd like to see Spring Steel mostly because it's a standard Introductory blacksmithing steel since it can be found in large quantities at junkyards.

[@samuelnearhood3773]

at least here in the USA, a lot of us (in the countryside) do our own oil changes. some garages would probably just give you the used motor oil if you asked. seeing quenches in substances that could be commonly found on a farm would be cool to see. Examples: used motor oil, hydraulic fluid, antifreeze, chainsaw oil. stuff like that.

[@TalRohan]

fascinating subject but I think 80CRV (similar carbon to 1080) is a relatively forgiving steel to try this with...as would be 1084 but if you tried this with 5160 or 4140 then you would almost certainly have problems. Still a thing to use the correct quench remembering that Alex's blade blanks are also properly annealed.

[@rorydakin8048]

It would be interesting to see if quenching medium temperature plays a role in hardness, and having an actual numeric value to the hardness as apposed to a binary yes/no that you get with a file. Here are the temperature ranges that I feel would get the best data (Temperatures in Celsius): Extremely cold - Quenching oil at or near gel/freezing point Very cold - at or near -40, extremely salty water can be introduced at this step for comparison Cool - at or near 0, pure water can be introduced now as well Normal - Room temperature for all mediums Warm - at or around body temperature for all mediums Very warm - *hypothetical midpoint for data* at 60-70 degrees to simulate a high flow shop environment or poorly arranged forge and quench stations Hot - at or near boiling. Very hot - Dependent on quench oil flashpoint, if it's 100-300 degrees it should be the midpoint between 100 and the specific oil's flashpoint. Obviously water should be left out of this stage, and there's a good chance that at this point we're over the temperature needed for some steels to harden properly. If we aren't at that point yet there's always... Extremely hot - if the flashpoint is very high (500 or above) do a small scale test run on what temperature is just too dangerous to let the hot steel come in contact with, and try quenching when it's 100 degrees below that! I'm particularly curious about how the water will behave, at very cold temperatures I suspect that the vapor sheath will persist longer because of the minute change in viscosity between hot and cold water. That effect of "thinness" to the water near boiling and the fact that the transition from liquid to gas in water is endothermic, could mean that hot water can cool very hot metals faster than cold water.

[@daniwalmsley611]

3M Novec 7000, it's an industrial coolant/fire surpression fluid that cools by boiling, it has a much lower boiling point than water (I believe around 40-50c) and not very viscous so should cool very quickly either resulting in a very hard steel or a break. Also isnt flammable so should be safe Alternatively if your willing to wear PPE, there's ammonia

[@Andre_the_Lion]

Water is so low viscosity and has such high heat capacity, there is really no reason to not use it unless it's an oil-hardening steel that needs to cool slower, which are mostly specific to blades and specialized industry in my experience. The moral appears to be, if you are a hobbyist working on the cheap, just use water or a thinner oil for oil-quenchers. Would love to see the effects of something like using lead-free solder as a quench medium, though.

[@davidrose9669]

Ketchup is a non-Newtonian fluid. Basically when no force is applied ketchup becomes thicker / harder /solidish. When force is applied ketchup becomes thinner / softer / liquidy. Yes that's why you have to shake the bottle of ketchup to be able to use it. I'm thinking you can get a quench in ketchup if you were able to move the blade quick enough to apply forced the ketchup. Oobleck is also a non-Newtonian fluid. Which is just cornstarch and water. But it acts the opposite of ketchup. No Force applied to oobleck the thinner / softer / liquidy it is. The more Force applied to it the thicker / harder / and solid it becomes. It would be cool to see you to try to quench in oobleck.

[@ApothecaryTerry]

Other quenching substances to try: - Pee - Wine - Bleach (or other strong cleaning product, perhaps one that won't give off deadly fumes) - Granulated Sugar - Mercury Ok so the mercury is an insane idea, but I'm putting it anyway. Not that bleach wouldn't also be insane, but some kind of vaguely potent cleaner could be doable.

[@duncanfeyd4056]

I'd be interested in hardness comparisons on the various mediums used. For example, did the vodka quench result in a good tempering?

[@JiiJiitalo]

Nice video! First, I have state that the quench temperature is not allways about 820c as said, but determined by the steel that is used. That 80crv2 is actually quite forgiving what comes to quench. It benefits from quick quench, and even water goes because of this. And last, file doesent tell the whole story how succesful the quench has been. There can be big difference in hardness despite that file doesent bite anymore, that only indicates that you have got over ~50hrc. Yes, the file is harder than that for sure, but it starts to skate rather than bite when steel comes closer to file hardness. And then there are the carbides, retained austenite etc, but who even reads these comments 😅

[@derigel9783]

Try another one in acid and one in a base. Got the Idea from a Witcher 3 quest in Velen where you help a lady smith with forging a armor by hunting a basilisk for its stomicacids.

[@JurasJankauskas]

I wonder if the reason why it went so well with so many different materials is because you started with a well made blade to begin with. Like, it's possible that half of those mediums would perform well worse if it was a metal you've been working more or if it was a lower quality metal to begin with. I imagine under those conditions is where the quenching oil would truly start to shine.

[@coreymorse1347]

For the most part it goes the other way. The higher quality (more exotic) metals are going to care a lot more about everything being perfect. For simpler lower carbon steels it doesn't matter as much. If he hadn't normalized the blades there would have been more problems with the faster quenches. If the blades had micro fractures already the faster quenches would have also been worse, though even quenched properly they wouldn't be good blades you just wouldn't notice how bad they were as quickly.

[@familyonamissiongo4790]

In the book the “Ben Lilly legend” Ben Lilly used bear grease or panther grease to quench his knives, he said that he preferred the panther oil over bear

[@myboysd5772]

My dad once told me some blacksmiths used to pee in the water and a most of them had their own "recipes" or use oil etc. But i remember the pee distinctively because i was a kid and i learned what kind of smell it gives off when you piss into burning coals after grilling some sausages outside. Fun times.

[@TheOmegaRevolution]

When I was metal working/machining in highschool, we used water or used motor oil. I'm kind of surprised you didn't try used motor oil since it's basically free.

[@alexanderanderson9298]

In agriculture they use “wetting agents” or surfactants to break the surface tension of water and help it get into plants or soil better. It would be interesting to see what a water quench treated with a surfactant would do to a blade.

[@valokraken2293]

Interesting mediums to try quenching in would be for example vinegar, dish soap or other cleaning supplies, or copper beads/nuggets.

[@Undet]

Most of the locals around here use old motor oil for good steel or mix a batch of "super quench" for cheaper low carbon steel. I'm curious about whole vs skim milk though...

[@salt-monkeymcgee401]

The fact that you hardly have any warping and breaks… hell of a blacksmith

[@42Scope42]

Some more for you to consider trying: engine oil, petrol/diesel, milk, butter (solid, the blade will melt it), mercury/gallium, quicksand (mark rober did a video on making a liquid sand hot tub), also if you could get enough to actually try - snake venom

[@noodlepies69]

It would be interesting to clean them up on the grinder and have a look to see if any of the quenches introduced stress fractures into the blades.

[@MrErViLi]

I've heard of used motor oil being used for quenching. It might be a good way to recycle your oil when you change it in your car.

[@jordgroothuis]

What about (red) Diesel? It's way cheaper than vegetable oil (here in The Netherlands €1.70/L for Diesel and €4.00/L for Vegetable oil. Despite what people might assume, Diesel does not burn easily. You could try holding a lighter to liquid Diesel but it won't do anything. Diesel burns inside the cilinder of a motor because it's injected under a lot of pressure in the form of micro droplets. So the pressure + state of the Diesel makes it ignitable. Worth a try with the proper safety measures?

[@rodofiron100]

I used to use old motor oil. It got stuff fairly hard and would dye the outside of my blade black

[@colemorgan8567]

Vinegar, juice (of any kind), coffee, maple syrup, beer. Hot sauce. So many possibilities.

[@magnusosmond1835]

Definitely want to see a part two

[@flunkeln]

maybe quench in mercury? Quenching in some acids or bases like amonia could be interessting too. I highliy recomend a gasmask. Glycerin would be interessting too. And the stuff wich is more viskose than water, but thats also highly flamable, like octan, hexan etc.

[@jamesreid7144]

The people of the internet would like to kindly request a repeat of this experiment with a real hardness tester to show us just how hard honey can get steel etc :-) you guys are awesome keep up the great work

[@JossWaddy]

Wet cement would be interesting. It has a huge specific heating capacity so can absorb the heat in large quantity while also using water for speedy transfer of that heat. you'd want to get it to a wet and sloppy consistency, much runnier than the ketchup. There's a lot of possibility for composite substances like this. i.e. water and sand, oil and sand, alcohol and sand. The liquid phase can be responsible for the immediate heat transfer but the solid/other material responsible for absorbing the heat energy away. other liquids: double cream, milk, ice and rock salt so water at -6C or so. white emulsion paint has titanium dioxide as the pigment, might be interesting. urine? (maybe do that outside!) cowpats? (definitely do that outside. Much more dangerous stuff... strong acids/vinegar/bleach, strong alkalis - caustic soda. boiling water, so it cools to 100C and slower. other hot liquids? molten wax? molten plastic. all of this super noxious and dangerous so please please please be safe! thanks for the fun videos.

[@greggv8]

Here's a challenge, forge an Estwing hammer into a knife, without destroying the blue handle. Doing that with the leather handle versions would be easier because the leather could be removed then put back. A whole set of kitchen knives with blue Estwing Saf-T-Shape handles sized appropriately would be very nice.

[@kharlan123]

i would be curious to see what kind of effect used cooking oil would have