Shadowheart's Hidden Score | "Nightsong Points" Explained

Let's dig into the script files of Baldur's Gate 3 to discover Shadowheart's deepest, darkest secrets and some of what makes her tick. We'll find hidden dialogue, bugs, quirks, and a little bit of math.

[@SlimXG]

This was all tested and recorded on Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896 (just in case anything changes, in the future)

[@YellowCable]

great discoveries, have you reported the bugs? hopefully they will fix them..

[@SlimXG]

@@YellowCable I have not, but I may look into that

[@RFA_The-DuDe]

@@SlimXG Deleting my reply's wont score you any subs.... just so you know.

[@SlimXG]

@@RFA_The-DuDe Hard to keep track of different user names, so not sure what you're talking about. I very rarely delete any comments

[@ArDeeMee]

KZbin randomly deletes posts. Even ones from channel owners. There is no logic behind it. It could read „i like cats“ and just disappear.

[@stanleyparks]

I cannot even fathom how complicated this game was to script. So many flags, so many paths, it must have been a nightmare.

[@SlimXG]

Agreed. Looking through the scripts makes it really impressive how many permutations they included

[@EpicRenegade777]

makes sense why they needed 2 years of beta, the amount of bug squashs and fixes must have been enough to fill multiple liner games

[@pirojfmifhghek566]

They truly hired all the right kinds of nerds for this.

[@eksynn]

it.. sounds like a fun endeavour, ngl. xD

[@jordanthomas5635]

Every time I play I just trust her with high approval and she spares the nightsong

[@EpicRenegade777]

i always expected her to trust the nightsong and never kill her Until one playthrough where i had never had her in the party and let her decide I was like "wooooow holy shit shart"

[@ReunionMana]

@@EpicRenegade777 tbh baseline for me it just comes down to "was shart in my party a majority of the game? no? then dont bring her along" lol

[@EpicRenegade777]

@@ReunionMana my party is always girls and maybe if hes lucky, gale, so shart appears alot

[@_holy__ghost]

​​@@EpicRenegade777gale is one of the girls just like karlach is one of the boys ❤

[@corvigae]

THIS is why it was so much easier to convince her on my first run??? Damn, I couldn't figure out what I'd done differently, but now I'm fairly certain I got the bugged wound glitch in that second run

[@SlimXG]

Figuring out that wound bug was what took the longest in putting this video together hahah

[@Nick154999]

Same dude, also damn i got the same pfp on a nother social media. Pallas cats are awesome

[@nakseyyy]

I got this wound and I think I only got it three other times before that -- damn, too late

[@rylog8]

@8:34 "Tav, why are you dropping the spear?" "It's a surprise tool we won't need later"

[@TheSolidSnakeOil]

I had to click just for the thumbnail of Shadowheart calculating how badly guiding bolt will miss.

[@quantumgamer5072]

Same, lol, thought this would be a dive into her shite chances of hitting

[@jedne2]

7:36 if you are a Selûnite, you get access to two other dialogue options. BOTH of them result in Shadowheart killing the Nightsong regardless of her approval or Nightsong points. Source: I’ve romanced this woman as a Selûne cleric 10+ times.

[@SlimXG]

There are those Selune-specific lines, but they lead to the same results, from the same number checks, as the normal versions.

[@kittrialeviana3574]

Go outside bro

[@dftp]

​@@kittrialeviana3574why? That's not where Shadowheart is.

[@dashippo5896]

Based shadowheart enjoyer

[@mikewazowski7477]

@@dftpLmao

[@itsTrickstery]

Note that even without meeting the threshold for nightsong points, it still only takes 40 approval for her to spare the Nightsong on her own (ie going down the "say nothing" or "trust her" path). Moral of the story: SH just needs moral support from someone she trusts, and she'll do something good for herself.

[@christopherjohnson2171]

Although players can and will do what they want, I feel like this is the giveaway that the "correct" path is to let Shadowheart pull away from Shar. She likes kindness towards kids, animals, approves of many good deeds only to be punished by the wound and ultimately does not even choose to kill Nightsong. She is a good person that has been manipulated and controlled via brainwash and only realizes it after getting to spend time with others away from the influence of Shar's followers.

[@GabbyPlaysGames02]

That’s what I realized too. She really is the worst Sharran ever lmao.

[@rettbull9100]

my first playthrough I let shadowheart decide whether to kill the nightsong or not. She choice not to. Did realize I had done so much to make outcome happen.

[@romanabanin2216]

If you vacuum cleaning 100% of the content it usually happens

[@havasimark]

This is a nice, detailed analysis. While you mention that you don't need to collect/trigger all of the points to work, AND the "ooops I might have misplaced that spear somewhere" cheese, I feel it needs to be emphasised that it's easier than it seems. Her taking the shiny path is triggered by you playing nicely overall and being nice to her, which'll trigger her Selunite inheritance.

[@drunemeton]

This seems to be true! I play the “shiny” path, as you so brilliantly named it, and haven’t seen most of these interactions. Yet when I get to that pivotal moment in the story, and she had the spear, she didn’t kill Nightsong!

[@SlimXG]

It was partly inspired by my first playthrough, when I was being generally nice, and also romancing Shadowheart. But since I failed that passive Religion check, didn't think to tell her that it sounded like abuse, and burned up the Noblestalk (and wouldn't have thought to give it to her, anyway), I didn't get all 4 points, but had no idea I had missed anything, at that time.

[@martinnolhaf3151]

@@SlimXG genereally is the important word here. In My first run I raided the grove for Minthara but after that was a good guy, I quicksaved to see how shadowheart would choose and she spared Aylin on her own. So I guess how you act towards her is more important than what choices you make in quests.

[@SlimXG]

@@martinnolhaf3151 At the Nightsong confrontation, it mostly comes down to approval. If it's high, it's easy to get Shadowheart to spare her without doing much. Having the 4 Nightsong Points on top of that just makes it even easier.

[@dVector13]

Shart: "This is my sacred duty to shar i need that spear to become a dark justiciar!" Me: Ok, ok, i gotchu Also me: Oopsie poopsie butterfingers am i right haha.

[@SlimXG]

And Nightsong even has new lines if you show up without the spear, but Shadowheart doesn't seem to care. Just, "Oh well, guess I'm a Selunite, now."

[@ArneBab]

@@SlimXG booleans for behavior are real bummers ☺ (actually the web of possibilities spun open by all these options must be really hard to navigate - big kudos to their plotting team!)

[@SlimXG]

@@ArneBab Agreed. Looking through the script files really made me appreciate how many permutations there are. And I've barely scratched the surface, so far.

[@Rickyfffff]

Shart?

[@kitchenambassador]

MINT!

[@kriers]

2:32 2 ways. If you select selune as a deity it also auto-passes.

[@SlimXG]

Hah, yes, that is true. Good point.

[@ea5yliver]

8:34 "It's okay, Percy. I really only just want to hold your gun for a moment, you can trust me!"

[@SlimXG]

Now give it back. Give what back?

[@chadmwilliams89]

I always figured she had more going on than just the influence points. Very cool. Throughout my playthroughways, I've noticed similar quirks with other characters as well. Very neat stuff,

[@constipation4650]

Actually these kind of In-depth analysis on how mechanics work in games interest me a lot. It reminds me of Illusory wall's Darksouls analysis on its mechanics and how things function in general. Helps understand just how detailed and appreciate the work of development people put into games, be it in unconventional ways or just plainly obscure mechanics that almost no one understood for a long while.

[@MorganaEvelyn]

I'm here to do Shadowcute research! Thanks for the video 😊

[@pleasesendcash]

not enough feet in it tho, eh?

[@Dorumin]

Love code diving and checking internal flags like these. Always disliked how people say dialogue trees when in reality implementing them as trees would be horribly bloated, and pretty much all games do dynamic checks to enable and disable events. How did you find these, data mining guides somewhere?

[@SlimXG]

I kept stumbling onto more files and tools over time. First, a full pack of the script files, then the tool to extract those files. Then the "Goals" list that has the more code-ish details (shown in the text editor bits in the video), then how to unpack a save file to check all your current flags. Using Cheat Engine to check and change flags on the fly, etc.

[@jameshughes6078]

The tree doesn't have to be an instance of Tree, its nodes and parentage between such can be explicitly enumerated out over your code base Although really its more of a graph

[@RockR277]

Geez louise, with all these bugs it's a miracle I convinced her on my first playthrough.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

Not really, 4 nightsong points is easy as hell. It's the wound points that are hard to get.

[@RockR277]

@@MichaelDavis-mk4me But, if I understand this, getting the bugs makes getting future points impossible.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@RockR277 Listen, I got the bugs and got enough points to get Shadowheart to spare Nightsong while actively trying to make Shadowheart want to kill her on my second playthrough. He says it's bugged, maybe it bugged for him. Basically, if Shadowheart learns everything about Shaar and her own story, she will basically always spare Nightsong, even if you try to guide her towards embracing Shaar. With this guide, maybe I'll be able to get Shadowheart to be evil, but it's not easy at all.

[@SlimXG]

@@RockR277 There are wound flares that are bugged, which can stop you from reaching four of those and getting the Nightsong Point for wound flares, but you can still get any of the other five Nightsong Points, even if the wound flares get stuck.

[@RockR277]

@@SlimXG Ah, my bad

[@zhyirshamsid-deen6919]

I see why she kills the night song in some playthroughs but doesn't in others i've played for seemingly no reason

[@Akira-ss6cm]

Damn, this really put a lot into context. I was streaming my 2nd playthrough for a friend, and I was confused as to why we didn't see the same scenes of shadowheart being conflicted that I had in my 1st playthrough. Turns out accidentally missing the wolf memory scene had a huge impact. Good thing my bard with Persuasion expertise had no trouble convincing her still. Very well done video man!

[@gigarat]

3:26 Since I just happened to stumble onto this video, I thought I’d mention something I also happened to stumble into in blighted village. Because I’m an absolute incurable loot goblin, I found two books, one of them a journal, in a bookcase behind Lump the Enlightened. Reading it triggered something with Shadowheart similar to what triggers at the statue behind the windmill. But if that journal scene triggers, the scene behind the windmill doesn’t trigger. Not sure if that’s interesting or useful info in the slightest, just thought I’d pass it along. 😄

[@SlimXG]

It is interesting! I saw that in the files, just like the statue one, but I couldn't seem to get it to trigger. Since the script also mentions a skeleton with a helmet as a trigger that I could find no sign of, I thought the journal might have also been changed somewhere along the way. It might have been just as you described, but in reverse; since I'd already been to the statue when I read the journal, nothing happened, so I thought it wasn't working. Thanks for the insight.

[@hi2u670]

@@SlimXG could the skeleton trigger be the dark justiciar skeletons near the grymforge? on runs where i don't focus on shadowheart much but still have her in my party i tend to get a lot of exposition dumped on me there

[@SlimXG]

@@hi2u670 Interesting thought, though the script file is specifically for the Blighted Village area, and only has branches for finding the journal or the statue. But the note at the top of the page says, "After finding Sharran crown on a skeleton, an old journal speaking of local disappearances or a defiled statue of Selune" and the Grymforge skeleton cutscene doesn't set the same flags. So it doesn't seem like it.

[@knightfallprotocol585]

Ah, a fellow loot goblin 😂 I also found the journal first and was wondering why the statue didn't trigger until my second playthrough. Love the little bits and bobs like that to make each playthrough unique to people

[@quiestinliteris]

​@@SlimXGI have a vague memory of maybe getting Shar-related dialogue from a skeleton behind the smithy, between the building and the town wall? It only happened once, though. I'd have to go back and check on that.

[@StarRightStarTight]

I love videos that investigate inner workings of games. Invisible bugs, neat hidden things - I’m here for all of it

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

Thanks, I was frustrated why Shadowheart didn't want to kill the Nightsong on her own in my evil playthrough. I told her how cool Shaar was and everything the entire game, but in the end, it's clearly not what actually determines her choice. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Shadowheart will basically always do the right choice, even when we actively try to make her do the bad one, she is genuinely just a good aligned character, making it weird she even followed Shaar for more than a second.

[@GeekMasterGames]

I've always just trusted her to do the right thing and said nothing and she's never let me down. I guess I'm just too good a friend

[@SlimXG]

Shadowheart approves.

[@CelestialDraconis]

We finally get a reliable way of hearing the conversation about her doubts. I always thought it was just super rare and never got it to trigger. Though it does suck that the wound flare counter gets bugged if you open the selunite chest. I always love fighting her on it lol.

[@lyntonfleming]

Right? I've never understood her point there, before you persuade her, that is-- "Oh, my goddess doesn't like the goddess who is worshipped by the people who made that, so we can't touch it." If a Nazi drops a gun in front of you in the middle of a war, are you going to refuse to pick it up because it's a nazi's gun? Or are you gonna use it to kill some nazis? Seems like a pretty easy choice to me. lmao

[@ayt3877]

First time i played, i didnt realize what the spear was so i did what i always do with new gear and immediately send it to camp. It was considered having it "on me" so when we went to the Nightsong, Shadowheart immediately turned on Shar out of fear 😂

[@SlimXG]

Hey, Shadowheart said you have to get it, not where it had to go after that.

[@morthgarrow641]

Great video on this mechanic! I like seeing how things work behind the scenes, and wouldn't mind more!

[@ironbar2009]

Peak bg3 content

[@svolozhanin7627]

Man, this is so convoluted my head hurts. I'll just swing it and hope for the best.

[@SlimXG]

Hahah yeah, and it mostly tends to happen organically, anyway. It's just the required long rests and the potential bugged wound flares that can trip people up.

[@Blaumagier]

I didn't know about any of this and played the whole game trying to be respectful of her devotion to Shar and always tried to pick the options that empower her and I let her choose whether to kill Nightsong or not and she didn't. I feel like I missed more than 2 of those Nightsong points, too, though I definitely wasn't keeping track. Such an interesting mechanic.

[@mavisanya6969]

same, i'm actually?? shocked this is the "secret path" or whatever bc it just makes me feel like "okay so is it a secret or were y'all just abhorrently disrespectful of her faith and boundaries in previous playthroughs?" 💀

[@crazyelf1]

I really enjoy that you spent the time to dig into the BG3 code to give us the details that I don't see on any other source.

[@turbokralle2768]

You can also pick up a Selunite necklace in the Blight Village for an advantage on the Religion check of the wolfdream conversation, Shadowheart will remark on it if you pick up.

[@SlimXG]

Ah hah, so that's the necklace the script is referring to, here: ORI_Shadowheart_Knows_SeenNecklaceDesign I hadn't been able to track down which necklace it meant, and I figured that the scroll passing the check for free was good enough. But if I had known, I definitely would have mentioned it. Thanks a lot for the info.

[@dsvwtrbeytnryune]

Shart really is the main character

[@danielthedragondemon]

Anyone can really be the main character tbh

[@SavageDragon999]

That would be the Dark Urge.

[@TheZerok666]

It's her, Gale or the Dark Urge. The others aren't as valuable to the game's plot.

[@dacksonflux]

I played the whole game without her. It's easy, just her in camp and ignore her until she leaves.

[@SavageDragon999]

@@dacksonflux edgy

[@stranger6822]

This was an excellent analysis and I'd love to see more. Subscribed.

[@matthewfrack1227]

This is the first video I’ve seen of yours, and likely the most interested I’ve been in a baldurs gate video to date. This kind of mechanic examination is what makes me love the game even more, thank you so much

[@SlimXG]

And thank you for watching it. I made this thinking it was probably too narrow of a niche to appeal to many people, but because it was interesting to me. I guess I was wrong hahah. But the game is full of all sorts of interesting interactions behind the scenes, including stuff that was cut from the release version but is still in the files (which can be enabled with the right tools/knowledge). So, there are plenty more videos of this sort that I could make, if people want to see them.

[@matthewfrack1227]

@@SlimXG I know for me at least since I can’t code this is something I never would’ve been able to find on my own, even with a ton of hours. Tips and tricks in general are interesting but there’s something to be said about helping people learn things they had no way of finding on their own. Just my opinion, but it’s so cool

[@SlimXG]

@@matthewfrack1227 Well I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope you'll enjoy whatever stuff of this sort that I might come up with in the future.

[@EuphoriaDeep]

That was great stuff man, thanks! I'd love to see more vids like this.

[@alphamorion4314]

I knew right away this chick would be high care intensive. This video just confirmed my initial impression. Not yet reached Nightsong, but ready in Act 2: she told me about the wolf, but I have NO IDEA how many "Nightsong points" I have. Guess I'll see how it goes when we finally reach Nightsong.

[@LaztheLax]

Tbh man, you really shouldn't concern yourself with it, just be a good companion to her, and make sure to have Inspiration points for Act 2. Also, before you actually are ready to face Ketheric, do not use the buffs from the Shar Sanctuary until you are going to attack Moonrise and finish him. These come from a statue you can find in the middle of the Reithwin Town itself, right in front of the cemetery. The statue has 3 plaques that are actually a puzzle, interacting with them in a certain order reveals another smaller room inside the statue with 3 *other* Shar statues that require checks to roll for if you aren't Shadowheart. Successful rolls grant a +5 Bonus to Int, Wis, and Charisma until Long Rest. That way you can keep a +5 to Wis, Int, and Charisma to persuade her...just in case. This is if you don't feel like throwing the spear in the Shadowfell as soon as you get there and want to test your luck on the rolls. If you just wanna do this whole situation naturally, simply being a decent, curious, and open minded companion beforehand will pretty much spare the Night song. I have only failed one time during that situation, killing Shadowheart was heartbreaking to me, and it was on an Honor Run. Which is why I suggest bringing Inspiration if you just don't feel like dropping The Spear. 😂

[@alphamorion4314]

@@LaztheLax I play an half-orc barbarian, somewhere in the chaotic good spectrum: generally speaking he does the right thing, is something of a good companion, but has occasional bouts of assholery, especially if it something that test his patience 😆 A bit like Karlach I guess (generally speaking good natured and direct), but rougher around the edges. So, to answer your question: no, he wasnt always patient and understanding with Shadowheart, even though so far she seemed to have opened up quite a bit regardless, and seems overall pretty satisfied with me, at least according to her approval bar

[@miranda.w22]

this was really interesting, thank you for making it! I've only gotten that "conflicted" conversation once, and it was in a playthrough where I romanced her, so I thought it was related to that, but I must have just brought her with me more and paid more attention to her in that run and thus gotten more points, lol

[@glassworktrophic8465]

Good to know. I hope Larian is aware and planning to fix that bug with her wounds.

[@ProxyGateTactician]

Super interesting video thanks for sharing. I love seeing all the hidden things they did for this game and having it broken down in such an easy to follow way was awesome. Would love to see more videos like this

[@SlimXG]

Very glad to hear it. And I've been a big fan of your channel for quite a while.

[@shadow_risen]

Thank you so much for figuring this out! This mystery has been plaguing me ever since the game came out and I managed to get that hesitation conversation for the first time, but noticed watching streams and other people's playthrougs that it's kinda rare to get, but had no idea what the mechanics behind it were.

[@SlimXG]

I had never seen the conversation in one of my own playthroughs, since it's so easy to miss. It was even difficult to track it down in the script files, since unlike everything else I described in the video, the "IrregularBehavior" flag that is checked to see if she'll have the extra dialogue in camp is not set in a standard way, like most flags. It wasn't until I started examining the unpacked saved file that I was able to find it.

[@shadow_risen]

@@SlimXG That's interesting! Thank you again for figuring this all out! Any chance you would do a similar video about the things that affect Shadowheart's decision to sacrifice or spare her parents (if you let her choose on her own)? She seems to sacrifive them on default unless you trigger certain things beforehand. I've seen people claim there's these three things you need to find around Baldur's gate: a tombstone, a graffiti and finding these two should automatically prompt a third memory. Personally I've never managed to trigger this third memory, so I don't know if there is hidden mechanic behind this too or if it is just bugged.

[@SlimXG]

@@shadow_risen Yep, Shadowheart does indeed have "ParentPoints" available in Act 3 which determine that result. The next video I'm working on is the Act 3 Honour Mode guide, so I'm going to figure out the parents stuff along the way. Might slip it into that video if it's quick enough, or make a separate video if there's enough to say about it.

[@shadow_risen]

@@SlimXG Thank you, I'll be looking forward to that!

[@grajowiecpl2942]

@@shadow_risen​ Necroing this to share what others have found and may help in this investigaiton: There are 3 triggers that determine what she will do (if you get them all she will save them if you don't she will moon motes them) 1. Interact with the grave of Shadowheart's past mentor. 2. Find a graffiti that was made by Shadowheart. 3. Shadowheart will remark about how she remembers the smells and the alleyways of the city. Now form I've read the third one is bugged ;-; it is supposed to play after getting the first two ones but if you made her eat the noblestalk it won't trigger so yeah

[@TheLastEpicurean]

Great vid. I love this sort of stuff, would definitely watch more.

[@Fuyuqi]

PLEASE more of this! This is one of my fav bg3 videos I've seen so far

[@SlimXG]

Well that's quite the praise. I'll see what I can come up with.

[@LordGui_]

Agreed, I love this type of videos

[@user-mu8dm4rk7g]

Hey, man! Just wanted to tell you I love watching your BG3 guides, how you explain game mechanics in-depth 😄 Can't wait to see your Act 3 Honor mode video! I'll be taking notes for when the time comes to tackle Honor mode myself (and hopefully I don't TPK once 😅) All the best 😊❤️

[@SlimXG]

Thanks a bunch. And now that this one is done, I'll be starting work on Act 3 right away

[@RealKangarooFlu]

Love this! I'd love to see more of these in the future

[@RebekahAmberClark]

Great video! Very well organized and explained, and fun to watch, too!

[@Sara-df5xi]

I love finding out how these work! I knew there had to be some very complicated dialogue chains because I've played through the game 13 times and I still see dialogue I've never seen before.

[@va1tiel]

Great video! I'm fascinated by how complex this is and gonna be sharing this with my friends! You also explained something that happened on my first playthrough, I got that exact same issue (bug?) where the option to persuade her to not kill aylin just wasn't there. I'd love to see something like this around the math of what influences her choice in act 3 of what to do with her parents if you let her decide on her own.

[@SlimXG]

I have most of the details on Shadowheart's Act 3 "ParentPoints" figured out, but need to do some in-game testing to put everything in place. Stay tuned.

[@s1b3r11]

That's a great video. Before I've heard from a lot of people that she always chooses to spare the Nightsong on her own and those are also the only scenes that are availbe on youtube (I've never seen her choosing Shar) but in the same time some people were swearing they had low approval with her but still allowed her to choose because they were sure she would spare Aylin but she instead killed her. So I didn't know who to trust. In the end it does seem her decision depends partialy on approval, partially on doing certain things and partially and choosing different dialogue options. Very informative!

[@ultimatequestions._]

Always good content brother!

[@antongrigoryev6381]

Such a great video! I've done some research on this myself, but it was purely by in-game testing, no code diving, so I didn't get nearly as much info. I'm especially thankful to you for pointing out the "enough Nightsong points but not enough approval" situation. I've seen mentions of situations like this several times on forums and it was always confusing to me how it's possible. What seems to happen is that there are two separate "She knows something about you" dialogues - one with Persuasion and one without, the former shows up at >40 approval but the latter shows up at

[@SlimXG]

The weird 4NSP 20-40AP situation happens because of the order of checks, and that's what makes it seem like a mistake. Her asking you what she should do happens if you have 4NSP and over 20AP. But then the check to see if it should skip all Persuasion options happens below that, and requires 40AP. And yeah, since I'd blanket covered that 40AP+ lets you convince her with no Persuasion needed, I didn't go into each individual scenario. I've always gotta balance my love of details with the risk of boring the audience hahah

[@DrXtoph]

Yes this is great - keep this type of content coming!

[@gamelifecoaching]

Wow this is crazy, thanks for showing just how complicated and in depth this game is!

[@voldo5306]

This is an amazing vid please do more! I wonder if any of the other companions have things like this

[@SlimXG]

I have a follow-up to this one about Shadowheart again coming out very soon. As for the other characters, I haven't looked as in depth, yet, though at a glance, none are as complex as ol' SH is. Gale has a score for how interested he is in the crown which is the closest, and I'll probably be making a video about that one, if there's enough stuff to show.

[@silvergryphon5858]

Really liked this! I know very little about video game coding and flags but this was fascinating! Would love to see more!

[@10Boxing]

Fantastic! Evaluations like this make me love the game that much more.

[@RedThreadRebel]

Would love more videos like this. Showing this type of thing to non-gamers helps get across how truly detailed this game is

[@abqxillia2044]

My first time through I thought making her throw away the spear was a joke as afterwards the stars aligned and she pretty much looked directly into the camera like “I can’t believe I just did that”. Can almost hear the laugh track

[@PaladinFeora]

I've known about this for awhile and I am SO happy that someone has finally made a video about this!

[@SlimXG]

At first, I thought you needed the 4 Nightsong Points and 40+ approval to spare the Nightsong for free, so I had planned to include a bit about how it works in my Act 2 guide video. But when I started to figure out how complex it is, and that you only need 40AP to skip any checks on Nightsong, I cut it from that video. But I found it all so interesting to dig into that I felt compelled to make this video hahah.

[@PaladinFeora]

@@SlimXG I wonder if Larian underestimated how some players might have it too easy, I think a higher approval might be warranted for a check like that. I say this as someone who has figured out how to trigger the waterfall scene with Shadowheart two long rests after recruiting her on the ravaged beach, like I didn't even leave it. It's wild.

[@SlimXG]

@@PaladinFeora Yeah, it's a bit odd that many important approval thresholds are at fairly low numbers (at least out of 100), when, for example, you get +10AP with Shadowheart just for saving her on the nautiloid and waking her up on the beach. And, of course, you get so much approval with Lae'zel just for dealing with Zorru they way she wants that it led to a sex speedrun . .

[@ArneBab]

The details on the code were really interesting! Thank you! I wonder how that looks in their plot tooling.

[@gantzplayer14]

It's funny that I did all this without knowing these details. The incredible thing about this game is all the possibilities it gives you.

[@Student4Life89]

This is an excellent video, i am really glad you decided to make this for the rest of us BG3 fans!

[@GabbyPlaysGames02]

You made this video just in time, I’m doing the gauntlet of Shar rn on my second playthrough lol. My approval isn’t as high with her as it was in my first playthrough so I’m hoping I’m good this time around, I honestly don’t remember which options I chose but this will be very useful in the future. Thanks for this!

[@SlimXG]

Happy to help!

[@GabbyPlaysGames02]

It worked, thank you so much! I’m also curious, do any other companions have a similar system? Such as Astarion choosing to ascend or not ascend if you let him make his own decisions? I’ve heard some people say he’ll never refuse to do the ritual if you don’t talk him out of it, but others say he doesn’t always do it. Or Gale wanting the crown, Karlach choosing to go to Avernus or not, etc. Also whether or not SH will kill her parents. Obviously you are under no obligation to dig into the code like you did here, I don’t want to make it sound like that as you’ve already done a great job here. But I was just curious if you’ve heard of anything that affects these things. Thanks!

[@SlimXG]

@@GabbyPlaysGames02 Shadowheart's parents video is already in the works! From what I've seen of the other characters, so far, there's nothing as complex as Shadowheart's various point counters. Gale is next closest, with a sliding scale between pushing him toward the crown or pushing him toward blowing himself up. Will also make a video detailing that one, at some point. As for Karlach, she always goes to Avernus if you encourage her to, or always dies if you just say nothing or say Goodbye. Astarion will always want to ascend, unless you pass a skill check to talk him out of it. The alternate where he stays a spawn with no check happens if you killed one or more of the ritual vampires during the fight with Cazador, since every one of them needs to be alive for Astarion to ascend.

[@GabbyPlaysGames02]

Awesome, I’m looking forward to it! My first time around I let Shadowheart choose again and she chose to kill her parents, although she was still a Selunite and on a good arc. At the time I thought it was reasonable, her parents even told her to kill them as they’ve been suffering for so long and they want her to be free of Shar, but then it kind of seemed like the bad ending. That makes sense for Astarion, I can’t really see him making the choice not to ascend on his own but I’d heard otherwise. I wonder why Karlach chose to go to Avernus with Wyll in my first playthrough then. I could’ve sworn the whole time I told her to just make the most of what she had left, but then Wyll swooped in and I told her it was her choice and she went. I’m sure Wyll definitely has a big part in her decision too, since he can’t make the offer in the first place without becoming the Blade of Avernus. These videos really just make me appreciate just how complex each companion can be and how much every little dialogue option can matter. The game’s far from perfect but personally I’m still in awe at what Larian was able to accomplish. It just makes me sad that I jumped on the ship so late, as I got the game in late March. Still loving every minute of it though. Thanks again!

[@daughter_of_gaia]

Very interesting video! I’d love to see more similar ones

[@RobLennox]

One of the most devastating moments in my first playthrough was when my lawful good character failed the DC persuade on my romance interest Shadowheart, and she killed the Nightsong. I was genuinely gutted as last light goes out. There just wasn't an appropriately wretched dialogue option when Shadowheart debut's her new look. Awesome video. I can't believe how deep this game's branching options go. I absolutely love it.

[@fillerpoint555]

Oh thank god, FINALLY someone made this video. It was driving me insane how many differing opinions on Shadowheart’s decision with the Nightsong there was, and no one seemed to have a consistent answer. Thank you for this. My only question at this point I guess is do you need to have looted the Selunite chest in act 1 by the time you get the wolf memory with Shadowheart in order to get the dialogue option?

[@SlimXG]

If she tries to share the wolf memory with you and you're not ready yet, you can tell her to put it off, and it'll go into her regular list of options when you click on her from that point. That'd let you go read the scroll in the chest first, and then tell her you're ready to hear it. If that option doesn't show up in her choices, you'll need to long rest

[@michaelderouen8144]

Wasn't aware of many of these facts lol. Good video. Subbed.

[@ginar2339]

Fascinating! I got a lot of this during my second playthrough naturally but I love seeing the mechanisms

[@Knollock]

Nice video. It's interesting to see the inner workings on this interaction. I know that for a lot of players, SH will be a mainstay of their party (either because they're romancing her or because they feel they need a cleric), but it seems like these conditions are pretty difficult to trigger if she's not with you all the time.

[@reffa2858]

On my first playthrough, I tried to get her to turn away from Shar. Once we got to the Nightsong, I told her dont do it and she killed the nightsong anyway. I reloaded a save before that point and told her to choose what she thinks is best and she spared the nightsong. I just thought Maybe telling her what to do made her choose the opposite choice out of spite but letting her choose made her choose whats genuine in her heart with taking what youve said into great consideration.

[@danlt1497]

Finally mistery resolved for those getting nightsong killed unintended telling they had high approval and such... maybe they didnt got 4 nightsong points and lied of high approval when not for even the persuade checks to appear to give them a chance. Else she defaults to kill or spare if thresholds are met or not.

[@bocconom]

Your video came across my screen randomly and I am impressed with your work; very well done. New sub. As for the glitches I am wondering if and when Larian will address them considering how they are diligent about patching such things especially considering the popularity of Shawdowheart.

[@SlimXG]

Thanks a bunch. And yeah, can always hope it might be fixed in the future. Patch 7 is still a ways off.

[@GenerallyMorgan]

Yes! I love the code breakdown. It’s so interesting

[@monstranceclock]

Ohh my god I’ve been wanting someone to do this for so long?? Thank you!

[@SlimXG]

Thank you for waiting so long for me to finally do it!

[@NOLAtours]

This is the first video of yours I've seen. Subscribing specifically in hopes of more like this

[@SlimXG]

Thanks a bunch. Now that I know there's an audience for this kind of video, I have plenty more ideas.

[@NOLAtours]

@@SlimXG I can't wait! this is legitimately the best and most interesting Baldur's Gate content I've seen so far.

[@SonicBoyster]

That kind of bug or oversight shows up and so many games. You do all this work setting all these flags for all of these conversations and then you show up to the place where it all matters because of some kind of bug, none of it actually matters.

[@SiodogRehane]

The moment she told me not to open a loot chest is the moment I decided she was out

[@shawnhickman4399]

This video was so cool, please give us more.

[@mvalesmvales7096]

Such an awesome and unique perspective on the game, whether it’s tips and tricks or diving into the game’s code, that perspective is the reason I tune in

[@SlimXG]

Thank you very much. I'll keep trying to come up with new ideas.

[@Azylys-]

Thank you so much ! Her arc felt a bit rushed to me cause I never saw her doubt Shar before Nightsong in my run. I had a very high approval and stayed silent during the dialogue and she spared her. Before it I always told her Shar seems awesome and she seemed very much pro Shar. I realize now that I had the double bug with the selunite chest and the noblestalk not counting so I didn't have the 4 points and didn't trigger the doubting scenes. I'm glad I found your explanation, her arc seems way more coherent that way !

[@HallsteinI]

good stuff, you really did your research

[@tygereyes]

Nicely Done Video!

[@catgirluwu752]

Oh... That's why she chose to ruin my durge run. I picked "say nothing" option, but she decided to spare night song on her own

[@ArDeeMee]

Download the mod that autosaves every 15 minutes. It makes moments like these much less frustrating.

[@catgirluwu752]

@@ArDeeMee I played on honor mode tho

[@ArDeeMee]

@@catgirluwu752 Oh well… ^^;

[@TheOther19]

Same thing for me. Did multiple playthrough, do everything to make her kill nightsong on her own, (encourage her to go shar) and at the end, she always spars nightsong.

[@lyntonfleming]

Same here. Recruiting a whole evil party. Shar worshiper? Check. Vampire? Check. Drow Cultist? Check Wait, Shar worshipper, why are you saving the Selunite?! NO STAB HE-- Okay fine. New friend....

[@VJ-zm5xi]

Thank you, that's huge work you did! So it's 4 Nightsong points required at least (out of 6). 4 can be earned in Act 1. Two during the dialog right after the wolf dream. 1 after 4 incurable pain events - persuade that wound is not ok (approval past 20 must have). 1 if convince to eat the Noblestalk mushroom. 3 wolf dream points are required at least plus long rest to see the wolf dream itself (save her from the pod, tell her it's fine to worship Sharr, ask if you can help with her hand pain, ask to share info about her personality, etc.). 4 incurable wound events (persuade or intimidate her to share she worships Shar, save Arabella, see Selune statue in the village, cure gnome Thulla, sharing wolf memory), others might be buggy.

[@PoisonIvy-1138]

Omg thank you so much. I am just about to do this on my 2nd playthrough but I haven’t had Shart around very much so I think her approval is only in the neutral range. My first play through I just accidentally kept doing everything to make her like me. I very much want Aylin on my side again so this is going to help me a lot!! 😄

[@GuyOnChair990]

Cool, thanks for the vid, this helped out a lot

[@robv.8676]

Great research!

[@ThyFloorestFloor]

I am still going through my first playthrough and I took an approach to let companions decide for themselves what to do in their moments, didn't realized there was so much tied to the different requirements that needed to be met for those outcomes to occur, it really gives you an even greater appreciation for what the devs did here. P.S: Shadowheart spared the nightsong in mine. I did have max approval but I didn't date her. P.S.2: I wish Wyll got the same treatment... If you are in Act 3 you know what moment I am talking about, wish he could decide for himself...

[@Maite-AileenBrandt]

Your presented approach appears to be extremely effective for game QA imo, lol (Larian Studios could definitely “borrow” some of your methods 👀). I thoroughly enjoyed your video and would absolutely love to have some of the other BG3 characters covered in a similar way. :>

[@SlimXG]

Hahah thank you (I think . .) None of the other companion characters have anything quite as complex as Shadowheart's various counters (Gale is next closest, with his opinion about the crown/orb), but there are a lot of interesting interactions and permutations based on flags and whatnot. I already have a few ideas for things to explore, and I keep finding more things as I dig around. So I'll have plenty of ammunition for videos until people get bored of them . .

[@chuckofsteel5398]

Love videos like this would definitely like to see more.

[@chuckofsteel5398]

Another video I would be interested in seeing but I don’t know how difficult it would be is for a camp conversation trigger sequence. There’s one in particular I just got to trigger recently that I’ve only gotten like once before. It looks to happen right after you recruit Wyll. During the long rest you can get an insight check on Shadowheart to see she’s interested in you and talk about going to a pub, Astartion is lying down and flirting with you and you get an insight check on him as well, and then Lae’zel talks about the stars and her Crèche. I’m curious to see other Long Rests that you can miss/trigger if this or this happens.

[@SlimXG]

Ah, yes, the Ceremorphosis nights. There are three of them. The first happens if you Long Rest after leaving the beach, but before entering the grove. The second happens if you Long Rest again after the first one, or you'll skip straight to it if you enter the grove. The third one (which is the scene you described) happens if you Long Rest after getting the quest to find Halsin or talking to Sazza and learning about Priestess Gut or talking to Zorru to learn where the Githyanki patrol is. But, as soon as you leave the grove area and enter the forest far enough to cross the bridge toward the Blighted Village, all three of those Long Rest scenes become unavailable. That's why they're easy to miss, particularly the one you mentioned, since you have to rest at a very specific time to see it. Hahah, there's a mini version of a video script, for ya.

[@hfogno]

Thank you for the deep dive!! I knew loosely how this went but not all the triggers. And you're right- I never encountered her crisis of faith conversation in 10 playthroughs until someone told me about it lol. Any chance you could do a video on ParentPoints too? I'd love to see the ins and outs of that decision tree as well!

[@SlimXG]

Yep, definitely going to do a breakdown on ParentPoints, either in the Act 3 guide if it's quick enough, or a dedicated video if it's not. Just from glancing at the scripts, they're a lot simpler than the Nightsong situation, but also some potential weirdness, as well.

[@gaigeriel]

really love this type of stuff with obscure data collecting in games. Brings me back to how many random obscure mechanics Dark souls 1 has

[@tinycatfriend]

i would LOVE to see more code stuff for bg3!!! this was great

[@travishartzler9155]

Very interesting, thanks!

[@IsilionNELE]

Exactly the kind of BG3 video I love to watch

[@eastward98]

Stuff like this is super interesting! (Also helpful!)

[@richardsorba9965]

Very interesting, thank you.

[@Grumppant]

Very cool video!!

[@Hrafnskald]

Very helpful, my thanks :)

[@101slickbilly]

This video is awesome. You got a like and sub.