WHAT I KNOW ... and don't know | Meta Immersive Synthetics | The NOR Platform Preview

I discuss my some things I know, some assumptions and some sneak footage from the unveiling of The NOR Platform at the I/ITSEC Conference.
Premiere Link: • The NOR Platform - Fut...
Meta Immersive Synthetics: meta.aero/mis/
Meta Immersive Synthetics Art Station: www.artstation.com/meta_immer...
I/ITSEC: www.iitsec.org/
Discord ► / discord
Twitch ► / jabbers_
Twitter ► / jabbers_dcs

[@janjaap362]

Competition is always good for the consumer

[@NicoMavB]

Not always. But it can be good ;)

[@S1lverspike]

Hey it made dcs step up when il2 started updating modules

[@henryredbird888]

DCS needs more than that. They need a good KICK!

[@TrickerDCS]

Do you play combat simulators anymore, I'm lonely in bed.

[@Jabbers]

Ill play with your combat simulator in bed

[@-thegiggles-]

@@Jabbers I can bring a few Gallons of Nuru lube and a 'can-do' spirit.

[@Jabbers]

This is turning out better than expected!

[@krippz7980]

@@Jabbers Well that certainly escalated

[@griffincheng]

MSFS also pushes DCS towards better CPU and VR support, which is good

[@MartusTube]

They can push all they want, too bad they're pushing a square peg through a round hole.

[@griffincheng]

@@MartusTube software dev takes time and we all know the core engine is too dated. Given what we see about clouds (moving!) and terrain, there is still hope. Well, DCS is all we have for now

[@MartusTube]

@@griffincheng I am familiar with software dev, hence making that comment. They dig themselves into a stupid hole, where they need to keep releasing stuff to bring in income, but that stuff is never finished because they need to release other stuff. I'm sure DCS can be salvaged as a good application, but that would need for them to shut up and fix it, which cant be done for two reasons: their management won't let them because its bad for business in the short term, and the entitled crybaby consumers would pull a "Cyberpunk" and start screaming about how they want it *now*.

[@griffincheng]

@@MartusTube I don’t know how big their teams are, so I cannot comment how much resource going around (likely not enough). And I agree the current business model is not sustainable.

[@Savage_Viking]

As long as they push DCS towards real world maps and better graphics.

[@TommyVR]

The more competition the better. As you said this will keep pushing the tech forward, consumer product or not.

[@pyroscot]

Interesting jabbers thanks for the heads up. Based on their site its the unreal 4 engine as they're after UE4 programmers and game AI developers so this should take advantage of the new high end GPU's finally. Pyroscot

[@lordlobs]

Cool! The footage of the Tunguska on their video looked pretty impressive with the ground foliage and stuff!

[@ramtin-s8722]

The video released and its looking awesome...highly doubt if it’s for consumers but can’t wait to see your new video about it with some insider info

[@Tuuvas]

Agreed. This will only push combat flight sims further along, even if this isn't a consumer product.

[@stevenpatti9460]

DCS will still have to compete because TBS (the professional DCS product) will need to compete

[@ericandi]

We need a flight simulation software that’s built from the ground up for VR. I think DCS is really missing the boat by not catering to VR enough. They probably underestimate how many DCS players would switch to VR in a heart beat if the DCS in VR was a lot better.

[@theeltea]

They wish they could, but they just can't with that antique engine of theirs.

[@ammonchristensen8189]

Vtol vr is a very light flight Sim but was made for VR exclusively

[@alexsp7086]

Il2 BOS has great vr performance.

[@oldmanfunky4909]

Yeah okay but, the VR used in this video is a 10k VR system. I'm sure this will get to the consumer in the next few years. This seems to have been done to show off the tech. Us plebs will have to make due with the VR we have and DCS which really isn't that bad!

[@jarlevanlandeghem8595]

I play it with track IR I do so because I can see my keyboard

[@belgeode]

A buddy of mine is there today (in orlando). He said all Varjo's headsets are there, including the new Aero they debuted recently. I asked him to see if he can get more info about this sim too.

[@theVRpilot]

=( Drew did tell me to check it out, but by this point was running around like a mad man and totally missed this booth. I did get to try the headset Varjo XR-3 he mentions here at Boings T-7 Simulator!

[@Warkip]

I have been able to test the varjo one time and that headset is truely insane! And you can do a lot of really intresting things with it, you can for example make the real life cockpit your in the real life version trough cameras and outside your cockpit the game world

[@conker4311]

Vr nerds when jabbers talks about the vr... "stop telling us, we know" *cries internally, wanting cool vr*

[@thalacammel880]

Hopes are up. Its about time DCS gets a competitor.

[@AYYOFLOCKA]

I'm just excited to see a combat flight sim, that isn't chained by decades of legacy code.

[@dragondal1318]

The varjo xr3 is the business model not available to consumer, but they just released the varjo aero for consumer based of the xr 3

[@Jabbers]

Correct, and either way, both have incredible resolutions and for a high fidelity sim to push VR to those resolutions is exciting

[@dragondal1318]

@@Jabbers yes very exciting, I also heard the varjo software is much better than steam vr or pimax or VMR,

[@Hatredy11]

@@Jabbers If we can believe VR Flight Sim Guy, the Varjo gets a similar performance to the G2 in DCS.

[@Jabbers]

The XR3 or the Aero, because the Aero is the consumer version and the resolution is a bit smaller, and without the high resolution center focal screen

[@dragondal1318]

@@Jabbers from what i have read and seen on the comparison is the varjo aero is just as good as xr 3, out performs the G2 in clarity and performance

[@DanielSirqueira]

This scenario reminded me of the Nevada map from DCS.

[@DanielSirqueira]

@william kleber Quanto tempo! Qualquer coisa estou no telegram. Tu tem meu número.

[@mhe0815]

Consumer or not, ED facing some competition will definitely provide an incentive to clean up their codebase and improve performance, especially in VR. It will be good for us in any case. But if I could dream, it would be a drop-in replacement engine for DCS accessible to consumers, very similarly how Lockheed Martin's P3D is compatible with a lot of FSX content. Very much looking forward on more info on this, if it is accessible to civilians, it is an instant buy anyway. Nobody forces you to limit yourself to a single sim.

[@dancingwilderness]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this would be the first full fidelity flight sim on UE4. It looks like a milestone and a leap forward. Kudos to that team!

[@Jabbers]

Well it's not like UE doesn't support things needed for a flight Sim to work, it's more that there is likely nothing pre-built and would require building these features from the ground up. So while yes it would be a milestone, it really isn't anything to different from what would have had to be done already, you just done have to spend the time building the rendering pipeline along with it

[@thewhismurproductions1528]

Really praying that this Meta thing ends up being consumer facing

[@peterpipkorn6939]

Regarding the headset: I've got no idea how well it works, but it has some eye tracking, that combined with foveated rendering could help keep those frames coming, despite the very high combined resolution...

[@belgeode]

Me (sits down) Ok, Jabbers has the tea. I'm listening.

[@realtimer3000]

Interesting indeed. And to add to the setup I think its a Monstertech BLACKBIRD Chair ✌️

[@TheBoss-yx5xq]

Monsterrech blackbirdchait

[@Mark_Point]

HOLY S**T. I just watched the trailer for this on their channel! Mind Blown... Wow. If its consumer it could be a major competitor. One question.... Meta... ummm I've heard that before somewhere...

[@Jabbers]

This Meta was around long before Facebook changed their name though.

[@stephengilmore2741]

Jeez... the artwork for the F-16 cockpit is some of the most photorealistic stuff I've ever come across. If this ever becomes a consumer product with equally as realistic physics and as deep a world/assets as DCS - ED might need to worry. Or at least seriously consider upgrading the graphics engine again.

[@calinho_1515]

VR in DCS is so frustrating that i sold my Reverb G2 last week. Even with RTX 3080 TI i can't handle potato graphics and low fps. MSFS an IL 2 run smooth almost in ultra

[@darkshadow7709]

wait really? How come doies it perform badly on a beast like the 3080ti??

[@S1lverspike]

@@darkshadow7709 probably poor optimization. I herd they would be implanting vulkan soon enough but I’d be upset too if I bought a 3080ti especially at todays prices and the game runs like junk.

[@qiyuxuan9437]

Something must be really off for you. Im using G1 which has the same resolution as G2, and with rtx3080, I can play DCS pretty smoothly for the most part. At 100% steam vr ss btw. Graphics are set to mid and low, and it dosent look that bad.

[@scottdickson9224]

DCS, especially in VR is far, far more CPU dependent than gpu

[@Eihort]

Did a little analysis on the video and terrain visible there and in screenshots on the website. That's Nevada, just not NTTR. It's Fallon. The Navy skinned F-16s lead me out there and on the website they have an F-16 in a bank and the terrain is a dead ringer for the valley between Sherman Peak and Buffalo Mt. Considering they're going for training govt contract dollars this makes sense.

[@theeltea]

The base you'rse seeing is a Professional (Commercial) edition FSSB base.

[@mr.simulator4724]

The focus area is a very small display that moves around based on where you are looking using an eye tracker so its always in the center of your vision no matter where your looking.

[@thehighwayman78]

it moves?

[@mr.simulator4724]

@@thehighwayman78 yes there is a very small display that moves depending on where you are looking.

[@thehighwayman78]

@@mr.simulator4724 cool i need to re-read i thought it was static.

[@mr.simulator4724]

@@thehighwayman78 yeah you gota check out their website or a video that they actually talk about the features. This vr headset has tons of features and is the most advanced there is currently.

[@thehighwayman78]

@@mr.simulator4724 yeah I've been following it since the release, I just never found any info on that the bionic display as they call it actually moves around. I just looked now and still can't find any other info than that it's static in the middle of the screen. In the following video they explicitly say they have optimized the placement of the high res display to be slightly under the horizon. No mention of it moving. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6aah6Odfsx0p6c

[@arx_7804]

olsen stated its an FSSB under a 3d printed cover

[@abdullahalosaimi6434]

Is it coming on console?

[@ericandi]

The Varjo XR-3 is around $8K. It’s a professional enterprise VR headset.

[@S3NTRY]

There's also the "pro-sumer" Varjo Aero which goes for $2000 and is still very impressive.

[@illes.gergely002]

2000 is still too high. If I add all the stuff needed to play DCS in VR in good quality.....it's just too much. Graphics card, hotas, pc and anything else you could buy. It all adds up then I just might consider flying for real in a glider.:)

[@DemonLordGamingAC0]

No Fanboying guys. The consumers only win when there's competition

[@Jabbers]

And companies are only successful when they have fanbois, quite the chick or the egg scenario we've brought into existence lol

[@DemonLordGamingAC0]

@@Jabbers that's also true LoL. Fanboys basically eat whatever shit the company throws out

[@Deceter]

This is the way

[@Nilssen84]

Is it possible for ED to change graphics engine? I absolutely love DCS, but VR graphics is so bad..

[@henryredbird888]

No way. DCS will never change. Their engine is ANCIENT. They probably don't know what half the code does by now.

[@Mikelaw709]

I flew their Demo at ITSEC. If you guys have questions.

[@Mikelaw709]

Confirmed Virple products except for Stick. VARJO XR3 headset, UE running 90-140 Hz. Pass through could be enabled but not during my demo. They also had Comms headsets that enabled Radio Comms through the sim. As in if we changed the radio freq in the jet it would put you on that Freq. The Smoothness was amazing, the controls were VERY touchy. Though when flying low, the terrain detail had a hard time keeping up. The flight models were accurate and represented the Jet fairly decently.

[@rainey06au]

Could you fly anywhere or just Nevada? Did you do takeoff and landing?

[@Ultrajamz]

Comparing dcs, bms, IL-2, which has the best NPC AI ?

[@Jabbers]

Dcs has pretty awful AI haha

[@Ultrajamz]

@@Jabbers yeah considering il-2 or bms but il-2 seem more starter friendly, bms seem better ai

[@henryredbird888]

DCS is a horror show when it comes to AI.

[@caribbaviator7058]

Visually it looks oddly similar to DCS graphics. Did they steal some of their work. I am just curious

[@Jabbers]

The initial artists were from Heatblur, sooo that's prob why 😂

[@SteveSurgenor]

Trying to figure out what Industry would need a simulation of an F16 ?

[@Jabbers]

It's more than just the F16

[@TomP-148]

Hopefully it makes ED upgrade DCS properly

[@MILSIM530]

it will 2.7 DCS upgrade happened because of MS Simulator 2020 they upgraded as quick as fuck

[@SDsc0rch]

good point jabbers

[@MILSIM530]

Competition is always good

[@damienfiche2592]

Any progress in SIMs is good.

[@homeworxchannel4120]

So I assume they are using the virpl base with a warthog stick. They are compatible.

[@Jabbers]

It's a real simulator pro stick, roughly $5k

[@homeworxchannel4120]

@@Jabbers oh wow I'm surprised they went that high tech with it for a display. I'm getting the feeling this is almost not a consumer product for the average simmer.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

My guess is it won’t be aimed at the consumer but rediculously expensive and available to the consumer.

[@epiczeus945]

This is not being marketed to the consumers. It's being marketed primarily to the military. "NOR platform brings the cutting edge technology and accessibility of commercial gaming engines to the high-end military training and simulation market.

[@Jabbers]

I was told a consumer version is a hard maybe right now, fingers crossed

[@eerotorri1887]

Varjo is finnish meaning Shadow

[@josephrosenbaum3343]

Unveiling has so many similarities to TitanIM when that was unveiled a few years ago. All looks and no real substance to the videos. Websites are similar in the wordings. Dont think we'll be getting our hands on this

[@-sharko-1184]

After your F-16 Damage Model video and this preview, it appears to me that ALL OF THIS is some kind of pre-planned attack on DCS... But damn you sound good.

[@Jabbers]

Not at all. I have no ties with Meta, and that F-16 video was quite a while ago, and most of what I was upset about in that video has been fixed for a while now.

[@-sharko-1184]

@@Jabbers good to know you are happy about the F16 now, so can you edit your A/C ranking video and put the Viper on top ? Thanks

[@Jabbers]

Nope, still not on top, not yet!

[@levinste2750]

Will that be a consumer product or not ??

[@nickryan4975]

Literally covered in the first minute of the video

[@levinste2750]

@@nickryan4975 Yes, which means, it would be a consumer product

[@nickryan4975]

@@levinste2750 what? Did you watch the video?? He said he wasn’t sure but probably not. Nothing said in the video indicates this will become a commercial product, with most information indicating it’s a professional level military product only. It would be great if it were to end up with a consumer version but nothing in this video or release by Meta indicates this will happen.

[@astrogumbie2399]

Guys would love to see this get to the public but I can tell you it wont and if it does it going to cost way more then anything we have seen before because of its addons like there dam VR headset just putting that out there an just imagine the Pc need to run it. An I agree they have to keep up with Change or they will get left behind and DIE DCS can become the same thing we looked at with Nor just going to take time and more hard work and possible some more workers.

[@henryredbird888]

DCS will never be this. Their engine is far too old.

[@hbladeh]

I hope this is a worthy opponent for Sh**ty Dynamics finally...

[@nator1654]

So this is a new simulator? I did not understand.

[@Jabbers]

Yes, but unclear if it's for consumers yet

[@nator1654]

@@Jabbers it looks very similar to dcs, in fact i thought it was dcs.

[@bearmat6605]

This is probably a dumb question, but: if this isn't consumer based, why spend all the time and effort on the gritty little graphics details?

[@darkshadow7709]

exactly

[@jameson1239]

Presumably if it’s not being used by the public then it’s being used for pilot training in which case you want the pilot to be able to see all the dials and switches

[@ComdrStew]

They told me they were a military use product only and were not a consumer product.

[@Jabbers]

I was told consumer is a hard maybe so we will see

[@solonemanuelwhitetigernava571]

I would like being this offered to the public...

[@Galm02]

Yikes, you have such a keen eye

[@thehighwayman78]

Varjo is finnish (means shade) and j in finnish is pronounced normally, not like spanish. So, varjo is varjo not varho.

[@ShadeAKAhayate]

1:15 is the only reason everyone's here. 1:20. The rest doesn't concern us. There are many simulation suites for the military and civilian agencies, of which we don't know and generally don't care since these, even if they were available, probably won't even work with standard PC hardware we use. One more to the pile does literally nothing. It was the concern I voiced on their Reddit thread. I was downvoted for my opinion -- yet here we are. As expected, this is _not_ declared as a public product, so it's not designed to be one. I think the case is closed. At least until a company that designs such software publicly announces the decision to compete with modern public sim makers. Perhaps it could be this one. Or not. Anyway, before this happens, there's nothing to discuss. Like I said, I don't see a point to stir Reddit community for this.

[@Jabbers]

It does work with standard hardware, and word on the street is consumer version is a hard maybe

[@ShadeAKAhayate]

@@Jabbers Well, we'll see. If they announce it -- then good, if not -- well, no one is taking away F4, IL-2 and DCS.

[@monkatron]

It’s just DCS, obviously no one in the comments plays DCS or they’d see straight through this charade.

[@Jabbers]

Lol

[@kubanskiloewe]

DCS is very very old now ..... so old that it does´nt support more than 1core processor

[@kazansky22]

I hope it's a consumer product so ED will have to pull their head out.

[@JoeRockstar]

Context lol.

[@whiteflyingmonkey]

Var-re-io

[@S3NTRY]

Let's be honest, news has been a tad slow since the Apache got delayed. I hear DCS has some pretty big news coming over the horizon for Super Carrier though, so I'm hyped for that.

[@mailman35419]

Yeah this isn't consumer grade most likely. Don't get your hopes up people. What was that FPS Sim a couple years ago? Titan or something? People were clamoring it up to be a new ultra fps Sim that would kill Arma 3(Arma 3 really isn't that impressive and desperately needs a competitor). Turns out it wasn't because it's a defense contractor Sim. Yeah same thing here. And honestly Arma needs a competitor infinitely more. DCS is a vastly better supported game. Arma 3 runs like a piece of junk, isn't immersive,(OFP dragon rising immersed me more with its better animations, gore and actual reloads), and has the dumbest fan base "Yeah man, just download these 50x mods and it'll be a fun game" "Yeah man you can do anything, except not, only small unit infantry stuff, it's not about vehicles even though the game has three entire DLCs based on it" "O come, sure the game came out in 2014 and has been supported since then, but a stable 19fps is totally acceptable" "Listen it's your fault you don't download 40x scenarios a week to have fun, and not the developers for being lazy when they didn't put effort into replayability"

[@ChrisV25]

I think their page for this product confirms it is consumer grade... "By adapting this well-recognized, powerful software, MIS is able to capitalize on the rapidly advancing technology demanded in the consumer-driven gaming space."

[@henrylevoyer9962]

Let's hope so. This looks incredible and DCS really needs some competition. Even if its not consumer at launch, hopefully it will make it's way to the market in some time.

[@evanf111og]

i know the name meta is cringe, its my opinion that the video looks like dcs with reshade, personally i think i would stick with dcs either way if it become consumer, tho competition is good

[@PeterBezemer]

competition makes DCS better

[@jameson1239]

Except it doesn’t look like it’s available to the public so it’s not really a competitor

[@monkatron]

im sorry but i just see DCS. they havent done or shown anything unique. if it really is a new game it doesnt look like it.

[@colderwar]

Just more boring bloody modern aircraft crammed full of MFD's and software, except the selling point of this one is you can get the riveting experience of selecting the laser codes for some smart bomb or programming co-ordinates into a JSOW while wearing a bucket on your head ( with the added benefits of poor frame rate, blurry vision, motion sickness and a migraine ) DCS can be a pain in the arse, but at least some of the aircraft are interesting.

[@JoeRockstar]

Meta? Lol oh Facebook you sneaky data miners!

[@torreypine]

While NOR may show what is possible if it’s not a consumer product it”s unlikely to “force” any change in DCS. Competition is what drives change and if DCS is in no danger of of losing purchases to NOR they’re not in competition. It seems to me ED is struggling from lots of good ideas but little effective product management. Look at the most recent announcement: two years spent on a new flight model for AI aircraft. While Microsoft and NOR literally gave their customers the world ED gave their customers a new flight model for aircraft they can’t fly. When one adds in the fact that ED and their partners earn money from releasing new terrain models one small geographic section at a a time it seems unlikely DCS is going to get a planet-level-much less solar system-level-terrain model. For me, that’s just fine. When MSFS 2020 came out there was a lot of enthusiasm in the community for flying anywhere in the world. You could see your house! Elephants and giraffes on the plains of Africa! While that’s good for some I prefer to see a reinforced company of mechanized infantry under some SHORAD and kill then with a variety of munitions that all behave pretty close to the real thing. Plus I enjoy the clench that comes from watching a missile get waaay to close. All in all, while ED has had some missteps I’ll be sticking with DCS for the foreseeable future rather than pin my hopes and all my feature/functionality dreams on a company that hasn’t sold a product yet. I’d rather engage with folks that have literally made my dreams come true than wish upon another star. As my daddy used to say: try wishing in one hand and sh*tting in the other and see which one shows more progress at the end of the day. Nice video. Thaanks for putting it together.

[@MrHrannsi]

Jabbers, sorry for the dislike, but this video is so much a do about nothing. All you provide is some low resolution cell phone video about something that is impressive and cutting edge... but... Checking the links you shared with us, there is not a single sentence saying this product will be avaiable to flight sim enthusiasts who are currently having a good time in DCS, MSFS X-Plane etc. What I see this is a product aimed at a market far above and beyond what bedroom flight sim nuts can ever dream of.

[@Jabbers]

Like I said in the beginning of the video, this was a way for me not to answer the same question 500 times. I I'll post more when I know more, but the dev I talk to said right now it is a hard maybe that this will be a consumer product... I'll take maybe over no any day

[@jared9191]

They already have a better damage model than DCS I bet..