What if Greece Won the Greco-Turkish War?

This is the 1000 subscriber special video so I hope you enjoy it! I spend like 3 weeks making this so if you enjoyed the content and wish to see more, consider subscribing!

[@dionysise5008]

Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050" Just think about it for a moment, Resistance time is now

[@Anon-zh4bs]

What does this have to do with massive North African and black immigration to France? How could Greek possession of Constantinople prevent this? Do you ever think before you say something?

[@aguilarraliuga1777]

@@Anon-zh4bsI think he means more of the Arab/muslim migration

[@Anon-zh4bs]

@@aguilarraliuga1777 North Africa is muslim and arab. My question was how would Greek possession of Constantinople prevent arab invasion of France? They are completely unrelated.

[@dionysise5008]

@@Anon-zh4bs obviously you don't understand how the ballance of power works. If Constantinople(aka most important city in geopolitical terms) was Christian then Europe's status as a whole would be much different. Not a single powerhouse in the continent would remain untouched. Now pick your bugs and go back to Algeria

[@adlmnop1147]

If they gave it to the Greeks? We would've seen the Russian and the SLAVIC Brotherhood in Portugal on the Atlantic Coast line , making plans for invasion of Americas. Greece was a Russian state by proxy at the time. Modern Turkey is a PENICILLIN for the Russian world! Unfortunately Greece is part of that world.

[@zaktheinquisitor5769]

Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050" Obviously exagerated but in the same vein, (and strangely prophetic).

[@divertedpreon]

Source?

[@trashcantacos]

I mean he definitely wasn't wrong, nobody can deny that

[@divertedpreon]

@@trashcantacos not what I said. I just want to use it.

[@c0olduckycool376]

@@divertedpreonConstantinople the gate way to Europe

[@trashcantacos]

@@divertedpreon I know, I wasn't talking about you I was just responding to the original comment

[@constantius4654]

Anyone who is a true Westerner should have supported the Greeks back then and should support them now. great video.

[@Ben-rd3mg]

Wow that’s a fascist ass statement

[@mossfinder7516]

I thought westerners are known for having freedom of speech and mind 🤔

[@Not_nistrepan]

Man I wish.But the west especially Britian never wanted a strong Greece.

[@topraktubay4223]

Average Greek statement

[@justagreekhistorian]

This sounds like something my dad would say tbh 💀

[@Peter-qs7ey]

Love this content. Im fourth generation Australian but all my ancestors are greek and I am a proud Greek 🇬🇷

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot for the support mate!

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

Ευχαριστούμε αδελφέ 💙

[@PHANTOM-zs6rd]

im not greek, but everytime i see a alt history video about a bigger greece, i just love it so much.

[@AD-yq8rl]

I am Turkish and I get happy every time when I see you guys are still butthurt lmao

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

As a Greek I can say that westerners really didnt want a greater or stronger Greece. They supported more the turks. Now we have all of us take the results of that....

[@fkr202]

@@Ελλάδα-ω3θ bullshit

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​It was the westerners who helped create a greek identity in a very mixed nation filled with turks, slavs, albanians, bulgars etc. This national greek identity that correlates ro the ancient times has pretty much nothing to do with the ancestry of 90% of 'greek' people. Instead, the new rules became that if you were orthodox you became greek, if you were a muslim you were a turk. Very simplistic view espwcially since the orthodox fate only reached greece due to the slavic imvasions. Greece got too ethnically mixed a long time ago, but the west needed a united greece to go against the ottomans and it worked wonders. The only group in greece who was against this unity building were the albanians of cameria who were then massacred. The truth is Istanbul is turkish now and has been for over 7 centuries. It is irrelevant what greeks (who mostly share nothing in common with their ancestors) would claim is just. ​@@Ελλάδα-ω3θ

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​@@Ελλάδα-ω3θthe west helped create the greek state in the first place. By enforcing a narrative of greeks of the 19th century being direct ancestors of the ancient hellens and making a 'greek' an orthodox christian is what helped make an ethnically diverse land of turks, bulgars, slavs and albanians into a Greek nation. Truth be told, 90% of modern greeks share practically no lineage to the ancient hellens, and the arvanites remain the closest direct ancestors. The west needed a strong greece to stand up to the ottomans and cause rebellions. They would however never let an artifical state lay claim to a city that wasnt in the rule of their people for 700 years while being the most important city on earth

[@Lafuerza_V]

The West should have better supported the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians in this time period. The brutality of the Turks (+ their underlings) during this era is almost unparalleled in written history. The situation is obviously complicated like any situation. But it sticks out to me as a student of history. PS- I welcome any Turks whataboutisms with open arms.

[@justagreekhistorian]

To be fair to Turkey, Greece isn't shy of committing their fair share of atrocities Atça is a prime example of this as the Greeks practically burned the city to ashes The truth is there is no winner in war sadly, everyone suffers loses and everyone commits horrible atrocities whether we like it or not

[@Lafuerza_V]

@@justagreekhistorian Yes, what I was referring to with the situation is complicated. It’s not like those innocent victims don’t matter. And while we’re at it, I sort of understand why the Entente didn’t exert more might/will right after ww1, they were exhausted manpower wise and their populace had ptsd from the horrors that just happened

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

but westerners supported and still support turkey

[@Cyprus_Is_Greek]

​@@justagreekhistorian turks made us slaves for hubders of years they stole are land the still occupy Cyprus they killed millions of us and u say we did the same attrocities because we burned some villages during war as a strategy to slow down the enemy

[@dev5764]

​@@justagreekhistorian I greatly appreciate that you acknowledge the nuances rather than simply go with the narrative "Greek Good and Turk Bad."

[@originalw01theonlyone]

I'm starting my own KZbin alt history channel I gotta say I have a lot more respect for your work voicing and making the script is the hardest part

[@RetellingHistory]

So am i

[@NP-CB]

Next video: What if Greece took back it's rightful land (the world).

[@xanshen9011]

Greece takes back their rightful homeland, Punjab, where they came from.

[@theaustrianart-teacher8787]

@@xanshen9011hey dont insult Greek people like that 💀😂😂😂

[@petrospetromixos6962]

​@@xanshen9011Nah i believe Greece is as old as India if not Older they are feeding us a lot of lies. I know ancient Greeks believed that Gid Dionisus taught Indians all their arts and civilized them and gave them their culture

[@c0olduckycool376]

@@xanshen9011Turks should go back to western China

[@hermsterhd9862]

Great Video as always, I would just like to add one minor detail. It is very likely that Cyprus would join Greece after decolonization, as the Greek majority of the Island demanded this even in our timeline and in this scenario, the Turks wouldn’t be in a position to really oppose this.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Oh yeah that's true, it didn't really cross my mind tbh

[@kyratean]

@@justagreekhistorianTurks would oppose it however can’t say they would last long against EOKA without a strong Turkey. And a weaker Turkey also makes the operation towards the island very unlikely.

[@hermsterhd9862]

@@kyratean That was also my thought. Of course the large Turkish population on the Island would still be against it, but in this timeline the Turkish state is way weaker and can’t really intervene in their behalf, so the plan probably goes through.

[@hakanyilmazer]

Classic

[@Desmuu]

Nice video! I always love to see thicker Greece.

[@user-lh1zy1ov4u]

Appreciate the work man 🫡

[@georgiospalavidis7382]

Unfortunately there was no chance for the two sides of the Aegean to be united, because Greece would be powerful and the big guys did not want that.

[@justagreekhistorian]

True

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

Exactly, Germany, britan, Italy, would never accept that. Even soviets were with turks.

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

Creating a brand new big greek state would be more destructive than preserving the status quo where a turkish state controls anatolia.

[@ΣμαράγδαΠανανού]

Treu because if you have the two sides is more easy to control the entire Mesogious

[@t_y_2192]

No. The West always see greece as a puppet against turks

[@gregtziatzias4747]

Πολύ καλό βίντεο αδερφέ… η μεγάλη ιδέα ακόμα ζει 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷

[@hakanyilmazer]

As a Turk, Really?

[@OneTwo_1028]

​@@hakanyilmazerMeh, greeks won't be able to do it anyways

[@Fo.k21]

​​@@OneTwo_1028Καλά, ό,τι πεις... 😑

[@serhaneroglu5402]

Just your dreams

[@empireofitalypsstimfromano5025]

As An Italian It Hurts And Disappoints Me To Know We Went Against You Greeks In Your Claim For Eastern Rome, What Was HQ Thinking When We Supported The Turks With THE SOVIETS?! We Should Want Nothing But A Strong Greece In Our East Since As Many Tend To Forget Rome Was Split In Two And Having The East Already Covered Would Only Make Things Easier For Us, We Should Only Claim The West, The East Is Legitimately Greek. Mare Nostrum Was Once Shared With The East, And It Can Be Shared Again, Dosen't Make Sense To Backstab Our Bros In The East Doing The Exact Same Thing As Us. We Were Taking Mostly Lands With Italians In Them, Greece Was Mostly Taking Land With Greeks In It But The Final Goal Was One And The Same, Restore The Eagle, Why Would Anyone Support An Attack On Greece?

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

Italians were always against the Greeks in the whole history. Italians are the only ones I cannot forgive, as a Greek. I could accept anyone to betray us except the Italians, and the Italians did that many many times. I always come to the conclusion that except Cyprus (our blood brothers) and Armenia - Serbia (our brothers), only France treated Greece in a quite good manner. Anyway, each country goes its own way and its own destiny. At least the Greeks have never harmed any Westerners, that's why we are proud and clean.

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

And something last but not least... noone in europe wanted a greater or strong Greece. So, do not blame only italy. It was everyone.

[@user-rf5fg4dz9c]

We are disappointed too, but that is life.

[@user-rf5fg4dz9c]

​@@Ελλάδα-ω3θΔεν πειράζει αδελφέ, έχουμε τους αδελφούς μας τους Κύπριους και μετά τους Αρμένιους και τους Σέρβους. Αυτοί μας νιώθουν και μας καταλαβαίνουν καλύτερα.

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

@@user-rf5fg4dz9c Συμφωνώ. Τουλάχιστον αυτοί ποτέ δεν μας επιτέθηκαν και δεν μιλούν και άσχημα ή υποτιμητικά για εμάς.

[@simulacrumpilot2777]

As a Turk I just wanna add some little details. Firstly until it became the center of the Kemalist movement Ankara was a city of no significance and in real life Greeks got so close to it that plans to move the capital to the Kayseri was prepared. I don't understand why losing a tiny city with a(at the time) 15k people would result in the collapse of the whole movement. Secondly during the Turkish-Armenian war of 1920 Kazım Karabekir had already decisively beaten the First Armenian Republic and was marching towards Yerevan before Soviets intervened and saved them then annexed Armenia to USSR. Treaty of Kars between Soviets and Turkey had already largely finalized the border between the two nations. Repealing the treaty would meant giving all the territory to the Comunist Soviets which I doubt either UK or France would support. Other than that fun little video, nice work.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Hey, thank a lot for the support! I wanna say that I mentioned that the movement would fall when the Greeks reach Ankara just for convenience In real life the odds were basically stacked against Greece so having to add every little detail on the war seems kinda pointless As for Armenia, in the script I seem to remember to have given Armenia to the Turks for this exact reason, but upon looking at the script before I was finished, I realized I never made that reference Regardless, if this treaty does get implemented, why would all of Armenia have to be directly given to the Soviets? Although, I agree it's probably more realistic for Turkey to keep their share of Armenia tbh, it just made the video more interesting

[@gregoralani]

Soviets invaded Armenia as your baddies did together in the same time not '''saved Armenia''' Armenia even did a revolution and kept Armenia out of the soviet for almost 45 days the only country in the caucasus take your turkish propaganda out of here invaders

[@dionysise5008]

On your first question, Ankara was indeed an irrelevant city at the time but if the Greeks had capture it then Kemal would have been immediately dethrone by his comrades

[@MulayimSert1]

​@@dionysise5008 Nope. He would keep on fighting. The idea of abandoning Ankara to give the army the ability of radical maneuvers was very, very popular at the time

[@dimitrislm5935]

​​@@MulayimSert1 he is correct.. so far he had zero wins against Greeks and anxiety kicked in because Greeks had almost reached Ankara deep inside Turkey.. It was his last gamble.. win it all or lose it all.. also dont forget that other political parties were fighting to control Turkey(Sultan)...

[@ginnorossi]

A few corrections: after ww1 Italy had no ambition to recreate a Roman empire, Italians were revolting and the army had almost vanished so the only aim after ww1 was to stay alive and avoid communism (that's why Mussolini came to power even if he was anti-monarchist).

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

yes yes musolini...italians...albanians....and always smaller enemy Greece

[@Flastv3162]

As a turkish this is interesting timeline for sure, great video.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Glad you liked it!

[@Fo.k21]

Very good video! 💯🇬🇷🇨🇾❤️

[@Cervus-zz1ox]

Great video my greek brother. Cannont wait to see the turkish nationalists to comment😅. As an italian with many greek ancestries, im' ashamed about the invasion of greece in 1941, i see greece as our brothers, since the roman era. 🇮🇹❤🇬🇷

[@AD-yq8rl]

There are more Pizza&Gyros comments than Turkish ones you little feta cheese

[@Cervus-zz1ox]

@@AD-yq8rl there are more nerds than idiots you little kid

[@Cervus-zz1ox]

@@AD-yq8rl bruh

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Lovely video! I do wonder though if the Greeks would have trouble after the Greco-Turkish war with refugees from the Pontic coast. Also, during WWII... Turkey: We have joined the Axis! Greece: Hey what's the big idea? Turkey: Oh, don't worry we have also joined the Allies. Greece: We'd laugh, but our only territorial claims are against our staunch ally Britain, so we feel ya. [Turkey, Greece fist-bump]

[@harryavanessian6222]

As an Armenian I salute my Greek brothers.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Much love to Hayastan! We Greeks sure love our Armenian brothers ♥

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

@@harryavanessian6222 🇬🇷🇦🇲 brother countries forever

[@randommonkey4900]

as an american im obsessed with big greece

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

thank you American friend, but you will never see a big Greece. BTW I am Greek.

[@petrospetromixos6962]

I ve heard today that Americo Vespuki was baptised as Homer called as a child Homerico(Omerico) which was distorted later as Americo. So basicaly America is Homerica(Omerica)

[@BerkoEdits]

You like sweet dreams dont'cha

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

If Greece won the Greco-turkish war, all westerners and turks would be unhappy and the Greeks-Armenians-Kurds happy. The answer is just simple. Έχεις κάνει καταπληκτική δουλειά μεγάλε, συγχαρητήρια. 🇬🇷💙🤍

[@noktafullstop點]

sweet dreams

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

@nokta1. I didn't make dreams I answered to the question, what would have been if .... It seems you don't understand even the basics.

[@noktafullstop點]

@@user-oi4cn7rt8t i wished you sweet dreams theres nothing to be offended?

[@AndreasEvgenikos]

Man has gone the entire video without mentioning Cyprus. I think that in this timeline the British might just let Cyprus become part of Greece, in a way to appease the appetite for reunification

[@justagreekhistorian]

Well I wanted to pin the focus on Constantinople because it made for a fitting end so I did overlook the elements of decolonization in Cyprus

[@titanics.o.s2101]

Nice video, also I have a suggestion-so in 13th century polish prince of Mazowsze province (Konrad Mazowiecki) was struggling with invasions from native pagan prussian population so he called teutonic knights (that were going back from crusade) to help him out in exchange for land later they would be main polish enemy leading to creation of Poland Lithuania, and Prussia as we know it I think it could be intresting idea to make a video "What if Poland didnt call Teutonic knights for help"

[@delaramsalmassi4063]

I wish we could build The Grecopersian Empire!

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

We would be better together. 🇬🇷💙🇮🇷

[@delaramsalmassi4063]

@@user-oi4cn7rt8t Yes very much indeed my dear Greek brother. If we go together then we will get stronger. Even the Scandinavia countries wish to be one country so that they can stand stronger. If we become one country then no one can ever harm and destroy us!

[@user-rf5fg4dz9c]

​@@delaramsalmassi4063At least Irani people never spoke bad for is and Iram never damaged Greece .... Our "friends"" always wanted amd smaller weaker and poorer Greece...

[@delaramsalmassi4063]

@@user-rf5fg4dz9cYes my dear brother c

[@delaramsalmassi4063]

@@user-rf5fg4dz9cI agree with you my dear brother.

[@NorthKoreanLover89484]

Really good video, great to see you growing

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot man! I really appreciate it

[@NorthKoreanLover89484]

@@justagreekhistorian One more video and you're gonna hit 2,000 subscribers. Congrats man!

[@romainvicta8817]

The video is epic but I think Bulgaria would have helped Italy invade Greece in the first invasion which would likely succeed. The only reason Bulgaria didnt help Italy in our timeline is because turkey threatened to get involved, which likely wouldnt have happened here.

[@stephmod7434]

Really? Turkey threatened to get involved?

[@Not_nistrepan]

Damn.The more you know

[@justagreekhistorian]

Dang I didn't know this However doubt this would change much as German forces would still need to assist in occupying Yugoslavia and Turkey so

[@georgios_5342]

Bulgaria tried to invade Greece and failed, they got stuck at the Metaxas line defensive fortifications

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

Guys we all know that turks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Italians and so on, were and are against Greece. Do not show that in every comment. It is anti-human.

[@Lafuerza_V]

Love your channel btw

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot mate!

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

Φίλε μου το βίντεο σου είναι πολύ καλό και συγχαρητήρια γι' αυτό! Μου αρέσει τρελά που ξεχωρίζεις ότι είσαι Έλληνας, μέσα από την αγγλική σου προφορά. Εντάξει ωραίο 😄😀

[@noktafullstop點]

sorry,i dont speak monkey-gorilla crossover language

[@faty679]

This is rlly good, great job for a small KZbinr like u

[@arisandreopoulos9247]

Βρε μαλάκα δώσε μας την Πόλη!!! Το μαλακα το γράφω με την καλή έννοια ότι ανυπομονώ δηλαδή δεν έχω κάτι μαζί σου. Ωραία βίντεο φίλε

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

🤣 ωραίος

[@Ghosty.maria7]

Love the video!

[@georgios_5342]

Wow, bro your maps are great. Keep it up!

[@TrulyUntold]

Yet another banger video and still can’t wait for the next

[@sachemofboston3649]

Good video, but I think you neglected how important Soviet support of Turkish rebels was towards the end of the war. You also didn’t mention anything about population exchange, like what would happen to the large Turkish population in Smyrna. In our timeline the Greek refugees from Anatolia, mostly Pontus, repopulated northern Greece after Bulgarians were removed, but if greater armenia is established then those Greeks wouldn’t have been forced to leave and much of this version of Greece would either be empty or not have a Greek majority, specifically the regions in Thrace, Macedonia, and western Anatolia.

[@korkukokusu8311]

imagine if greeks migrates to their rightful homeland , iraq. and meet with kurdish miltans they love. that would be awesome.

[@flamingarrow9444]

Amazing video!!!

[@stephmod7434]

Ωραίο βίντεο φίλε μου! Αλλά είσαι λίγο biased βέβαια για παράδειγμα δεν χρειάζεται να μεγαλώσουν τα σύνορα στην ζώνη της Σμύρνης. Επίσης με το θέμα με τους Ιταλούς, οι πιο πολλοί Ιταλοί ήταν στα αρχιδια τους για την Ανατολή. Κυρίως τους ένοιαζε η Αλβανία και η Δαλματια όχι η Ανατολία. Κομμάτια της Ανατολία τους την δώσανε για να μην είναι νευριασμενοι που δεν πείραν την Δαλματια

[@justagreekhistorian]

Καλά ότι έχω bias δεν το αρνούμαι, αν και προσπαθώ να το ρίξω όσο γίνεται Η επέκταση της ζώνης της Σμύρνης θεωρώ πως θα γινόταν όμως διότι σε αυτό το σενάριο η Ελλάς είχε μια ολοκληρωτική νίκη Όσο αναφορά τους Ιταλούς, τα ανέφερα αυτά στο βίντεο για να δείξω ότι ο φασισμός δεν αποφεύγεται και ότι ο Μουσολίνι πάλι θα έπαιρνε την εξουσία της χώρας

[@stephmod7434]

@@justagreekhistorian πρώτον δεν υπάρχει λόγος να επεκτηνουμε την ζωή της Σμύρνης διότι η Ζώνη της Σμύρνης είχε ήδη αρκετούς Τούρκους, και αφού επεκταθεί τώρα τι; θα έχουμε ακόμα πιο πολλούς; Βέβαια αν ήταν να επεκταθεί θα επεκτηνοταν στις ακτές της Μικράς Ασίας. Καλά για την Ιταλία βγάζει κάπως νόημα ότι απλά δεν ήθελες να αναφέρεις άλλες περιοχές σαν την Δαρδανία και κάνεις περίπλοκο το βίντεο.

[@GLRAVGJSKSG-lr8bx]

Γαμάτο βιντεάκι ❤️

[@YugoslavForever]

Life could be a dream, life could be a dreeeaaam...

[@Paul2kdj69]

Great video but I would like to say 2 things Firstly, an an event of a Hellenic victory in the greco-turkish war the greeks probably wouldn't restore JUST Armenia in the redrawn treaty, instead it would be a union between Armenia and Pontus, so an armeno-pontic union Secondly, we need a part two if possible

[@justagreekhistorian]

I feel like making a Pontic-Armenian state is pretty pointless since if I remember correctly the Pontic and Armenian genocides have already taken place which means these areas would also have significant Turkish populations But yeah it's also a possibility As for a part two, I don't really know what to do next, like okay say Greece takes Constantinople and the end like there isn't much to continue the scenario so yeah Thanks for the support!

[@ArmeniaMiko]

@@justagreekhistorian a part two idea I think you should do is turning Greece into an involved major power in the MIddle East. As such, renewed conflicts between Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians and Turks, notably in the Van bassin region, would, by the time after 1945, cause the Soviets to try and stabilize the region. This would make Greece a massively important Western ally, in order to secure the Middle and Near East's alliegance to the West. As such, Greek-funded Armenian guerrilas would lead a massive revolution against the Soviets, backed by the Turks and Kurds and Assyrians and Ponts and Laz's and Georgians and Azerbaijanis and Caucasian Tartars and White Russians and so on and so forth, not to mention immediate backing by the Western powers. I see this revolution winning for 2 key reasons; Firstly, Soviet presence in the region being recent, consolidation of support would be extremely low among the highly conservative and religious Armenian majority of Western Armenia ( due to a return of Genocide survivors, numbering about 3 million in the 1940's, while Armenian victory in Western Armenia would cause a massive flow of Muslim imigrants to Turkey, similar to the flow of turks from Armenia to Azerbaijan in the 1991 victory, leading to the loss of muslim-christian 50-50 in north-western armenia, as south-western armenia was already a majority Armenian region due to it's highly depopulated nature after the caucausus front (estimates place the population of the Lake Van bassin and surroundings at 600.000 after the Turkish War of Independance), hence leading to a 75% Armenian state, backed by Kurdish minorities in Western Armenia who had benifeted of religious freedom and major minority rights as to isolate the Turks, who would be less than 10% at this point.) Hence, Almost 90% of the country in favour of the revolt, not to mention inevitable British, French, Turkish and Greek immediate "humanitarian aid" (undemrining Soviet influence by occupying major cities and ceeding administration to the rebels), this'd see Soviet collapse in Western Armenia and the entirity of the Caucausus, excluding Eastern Azerbaijan (the Black Sea coast, formerly owned by the Centrocaspian dictatorship, basically all of Azerbaijan excluding Karabakh and Ganja, the latter becoming the Democratic Azeri Republic and Karabakh joining Armenia for it's 93% Armenian population, as well as Georgian independance. In a sea of newborn republics, the Greeks would be given the task to lead them to the West in democratization and peacekeeping, essentially becoming the USA of NATO. They'd most probably form economic and political unions of Anatolia and the Caucausus, ending Greek-Turkish and Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian animosity. With the decolonization of Britain, this new alliance would seek to establish it's dominance over the Middle East; British Iraq's Assyrian and Kurdish regions would inevitably become an immediate warzone, northern Syria as well for it's prominent Assyrian and Kurdish majorities. In short, this would see Greece leading a coalition against the Arab World, backed strongly by Lebanon, seeking to free itself of it's Arab neighbour's influences, religiously and politically, Turkey, Armenia, Kurdistan, and Assyrian leagues for independance, against an Arab union. To prevent a unification of Baathist and Arab republics, the Greeks would be quick to prompt divisions within the Arab World, leading much of the middle eastern republics into civil war, heavily backed by American money to destroy Socialist Arab ambitions; Iraq would collapse quickly into a civil war beetween Shi'ites, Christians and Sunnis; Syria would fall into a similar-to-irl civil war of Pro-Western forces vs Pro-Eastern, also joined in by Pro-Collapse (minorities seeking to form their own states in Der-Ezzor or Rojova, respectivally Assyrians and Kurds). I think this is an extremely interesting idea to follow. Pls make a part 2...

[@celiktepecengizhanlise2terk]

You are such a Greek. England and France is helping you even in your dreams!

[@justagreekhistorian]

What? France didn't really help Greece, they were just trying to secure their own interest in that region and Britain only supported Greece diplomatically Greece was pretty much alone in the war and I say as much in the video

[@CaptainbaII]

Very nice video like the others , i have been watching your channel since the 2nd video and i gotta say i love your vids I would of liked to see two things though , firstly if greece was to win the war i belive that they would gain more land like hraklia of pontus and nikaia Secondly i would of liked to see the diplomacy of greece after ww2 and also , since greece is bigger and the economy was going up i feel like , except federacion , there wouldnt be any significant other comunist party , thus greece would of been able to get more in the peacedeal like northen epirus or even an expanded northen epirus even towards elbasan , burgos , maybe plovid or cyrene too . something else could begreece would gain pontus , sure genocides had happened but the coastal areas were still majority greek finally i would like to see if greece could of been involved in the russian invasions of ukraine to get majority greek cities like mariupol , , thats all , love your vids man and im happy to see a greek youtuber

[@Wultramn]

awesome vid

[@user-eo5wb2pp4o]

Could you do a video on if Germany formed earlier? Around the 1400.

[@AyushRaj-cb6ny]

It was actually quite realistic. Greetings from Turkey

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot mate! I try to keep my scenarios as realistic as I can so it means a lot to me hearing this!

[@bmyt4249]

This guys name is „ayush raj“. It doesnt give your comment any legitimacy street shitter. Turks were at the worst state ever and still their victory was inevitable. Greek expansionism doesnt work

[@Youssef_2003_Antoine]

Hey what app do you use to make your maps

[@xomefionavar2953]

i would like to see your video about caucasian alternative history since it never has been done great video brother good luck

[@justagreekhistorian]

Great suggestion! Thanks a lot, I'd try to think of something

[@Pvtdimitri]

16:43 after watching too much game theory, i thought you where going to say “but hey, thats just a theory, a game theory”

[@justagreekhistorian]

FINALLY, someone got the reference, I had been waiting for this moment

[@user-ed2tt2sh1o]

Why didnt you make it to the present day 😭🙏🏼cmon thats what i was waiting for

[@justagreekhistorian]

hahahaha this is what we call a cliffhanger where you can imagine for yourself what's the ending

[@antiochusacharnensis]

For the Constantinople there was two scenarios, from Wilson, president of the U.S.A. and Venizelos prime minister of the Greece, for a religious state, as the Vatican, with his leader the patriarch of the Constantinople.-

[@jimmygrant9711]

Europeans didn't want bigger Greece. They prefer a huge Muslim Turkey. How clever

[@stevenlawrence7101]

EPIC!

[@AverageBalkanian]

As a greek i approve 👌

[@rhyolite]

The background music is a W and in my playlists (I instantly recognized “children of the defense” etc)

[@Not_nistrepan]

Πολλυ ωραίο video btw.Θα σου άρεσε η ιδέα αν κανείς video για αν οι Ποντιακες προσπάθειες για ελευθερία ήταν επιτυχημένες;

[@justagreekhistorian]

Ευχαριστώ για την στήριξη φίλε! Όσο αναφορά το σενάριο δεν είμαι σίγουρος τι θα άλλαζε η Ποντιακή ανεξαρτησία Δηλαδή αν η Ελλάς πάλι έχανε τον πόλεμο τότε ο Πόντος θα ήταν ένα ασήμαντο κράτος το οποίο η Τουρκία θα το κατακτούσε όπως και να έχει Αν η Ελλάς νικούσε τον πόλεμο, τότε απλά έχουμε αυτό που έγινε στο βίντεο απλά με μια πιο μεγάλη Αρμενία (Αρμενικό-Ποντιακό κράτος)

[@georgios_5342]

While this is a realistic scenario, you could have gone in a slightly altered direcrion. If you wanted to get more creative with it, Greece could get in a war with Albania, over the issue of Northern Epirus, or you could have had Turkey invade the Greek portion of Anatolia (since the Germans would have a harder time landing there on their own). Also, the issue of Cyprus could be tackled. And perhaps a stronger Greece, with the inclusion of Northern Epirus, could have some sort of extra claims on fascist Italy or Bulgaria. Also, the political landscape would be really interesting. I imagine that since Alexander lived on and cooperated with Venizelos, the kingdom would not be abolished. The National Schizm would effectively end with the complete ousting of Constantine and a reconciliation between the now pro-British crown and Venizelos. Venizelos in this timeline is hailed as a National hero by all sides, and is respected even by the royalists, for retaining the kingdom, the only party who would dislike him are the communists. With the kingdom continuing its existence into the interwar, under a system similar to the British, the country would be much more stable and there wouldn't be the many coups of our timeline. Pangalos wouldn't rule the country, meaning the 1925 Petrich incident wouldn't happen, or at least it probably wouldn't escalate in the same way. The country wouldn't be destroyed, so it could probably react better to the 1923 Italian occupation of Corfu. In this time, Greece would have a stronger alliance with Yugoslavia, and perhaps even an alliance with Romania and Poland, expanding the Little Entente into the Miedzymorze (Intermarium), which would be on the side of the Allies. Perhaps Bulgaria and Albania are occupied by this alliance, at least for some time. Maybe Greece liberates the Dodecanese islands from its Anatolian holdings. With the Soviets splitting the Intermarium with the Nazis, the war essentially sees the Soviets and Nazis on the same side against the Allies, meaning that Barbarossa is postponed to the point where it might not even happen. Or, conversely, with the addition of Turkey into the war, Germany makes better progress in the Caucasus, causing Stalingrad to fall. Maybe the Americans drop the nuke on Germany instead of Japan in this timeline. I just think this timeline would see both Greece and Turkey be a lot more proactive instead of reactive than irl. Which could throw the war in a completely different direction Still, a great video nonetheless. You gained a subscriber

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot for the support mate! Indeed the whole geopolitical situation is very interesting and there is a lot more to this scenario I didn't cover However, Barbarossa would still happen as the Germans had in mind liebestraum (the expansion in the east) so it is unlikely they'd give that up but yeah it would be more creative that way

[@anothernerd4207]

What would your views on the difference in greek music in this alternate timeline. Without the refugees from anatolia would rembetiko then laiko be created which would mean a very different greek music for today?

[@justagreekhistorian]

That's an interesting view which didn't even cross my mind I have no idea how to predict this but it is indeed very possible that music would end up extremely differently

[@Desmuu]

What do you think this Greece would be like in today's world?

[@mehmetcaglarozgur7679]

Götünüzün yanığı kıyamete kadar geçmeyecek.

[@bnbgezgini]

Adamsın

[@leherondor5283]

Honestly, this is one of the best alternate history video I've ever seen. Thank you very much for your content🎉. Can't wait for another video👍🏻.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a ton for the support mate!

[@stargazer-elite]

KZbin glitched but Videntis unlisted the video (it’s not on his homepage) but I came here from there I am so far the only commenter lol to viewers of this channel your in for a treat but I’m sure you know that. Either way I’m new here take this sub

[@justagreekhistorian]

Yo glad to see you here Yeah that video was not meant to go public until tomorrow afternoon so yeah Regardless , thanks a lot for the support!

[@eduardmemester2706]

As an Italian, I would suggest a what if scenario which is very unknown in medieval history, and was never explored by anyone but it could be really significative if well-realized: What if Berengar of Friuli was able to mantain his power and his successors: during his reign, which spanned from 888 to 924, he was the first king of Italy to recive the title of Holy Roman Emperor, which made the Italian kingdom the whole HRE itself and not controlled by any other power, as happened in our timeline when Otto I conquered in 962 Italy and become emperor. This scenario would basically mean that Italy would have become a centralized kingdom as happened for France and England, and maybe it could also conquer in the long term even the small lombard principalities of Salerno and Benevento, as well the still Roman controlled lands of Apulia and Calabria, recreating the full unity of the Peninsula which was lost since the death of Justinian. Also this strenghing of central autority over the kingdom would basically mean that it’s difficult for Italian republics as Genoa, Pisa would form (Venice was still a tecnical vassal of Constantinople, and would probably be preserved thanks to it’s extremly difficulty to siege the mainland, because of it’s swampy territory.

[@justagreekhistorian]

That's interesting, I haven't really heard of this before but I will give it a shot

[@bendo9162]

There is a video by Neatling (coincidentally published yesterday) that at least touches on the subject (though it focuses on an alternate trajectory for Germany). That might be interesting for you, too.

[@Alabamanhistorian]

Good content👍

[@justagreekhistorian]

Thanks a lot

[@Mattef22]

I'm Italian and this video is particularly biased and Italians have never financed the Turks in the Greco-Turkish war. Smirnia had been promised to the Italians with the London Pact only because the Greeks had not yet entered the war on the side of the Entente.

[@justagreekhistorian]

The Italians didn't financed the Turks directly Rather they support them diplomatically and retreated from their occupied territory, leaving all weapons for the Turks to take Greece and Italy were competitors then, it was more of a passive thing rather than an active thing though The ones who really supplied the Turks were the Soviets Also yes, the London pact was undone with the treaty of Sèvres

[@Mattef22]

@@justagreekhistorian in any case until the coming of Mussolini Italy never had plans or ideas of wanting to form a new Roman Empire, she wanted to unify all the Italian speaking territories you can also see from the fact that they withdrew the troops from the Panfilia region.

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

@@justagreekhistorian exactly this

[@user-rf5fg4dz9c]

​@@Mattef22Italians were always against the Greeks, either directly or indirectly.

[@yigitgul3398]

​@@justagreekhistorian still biased. U said turks made attrocities but forgot to mention greek atrocities in izmir

[@MehmetGuler-oh9bm]

A nation which is Not able to survive by its own and can Not fight alone doesn‘t deserve a country

[@hamlet557]

And that's the reason why your society is sheet. Turkish society is "eat or be eaten" and it's full of violence. That's why every Turk is begging to move to Germany and even to small countries like Belgium who can't "fight alone" but they created a CIVILIZED society.

[@eren3390]

@@hamlet557europeans are angels? 🤣

[@hamlet557]

@@eren3390 Why do you insist when even YOU know the answer?

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

@@MehmetGuler-oh9bm nations can also develop science and humanity and not only fighting. Fights is not everything g. It is the most primitive thing if you think like that. What a medieval culture.

[@Ellhn_Arsenokoiths]

Μιλάμε πιο ελληνική προφορά στην αγγλική γλώσσα δεν έχω ακούσει😂😂. Συνέχισε έτσι φίλε, επιτέλους ένας Έλληνας ιστορικός που ασχολείται και με ξένο κοινό.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Ήθελα να μάθω Βρετανική προφορά αλλά άστο καλύτερα 💀 Ευχαριστώ πολύ για την στήριξη φίλε!

[@muratartvin9868]

Anyone who is a true Westerner should support peace, democracy, and human rights, and not such fantasies.

[@justagreekhistorian]

I don't disagree lol I made this video, not to say "BRING BACK MEGALI GREECE!" but rather to celebrate reaching 1000 subscribers Since I am Greek, it only made sense to make a Greek centered scenario

[@hamlet557]

No westerner supports war. It's only a "what if" scenario. We leave wars to Turks who never stopped having wars with all their neighours and they have NOTHING to brag about, other than wars.

[@f1uf]

Supporting human rights means supporting Greece

[@muratartvin9868]

I fail to understand why human rights is connected (mainly) to Greece. Are ordinary people in other countries not worthy of human rights? Greece is exemplary in one regard. The "Human rights index" (by "Global Change Data Lab") for Greece was 0.8 points in 2023, out of 1. Maybe you mean that Greece fails in another regard. It has good laws but many can bypass them. The "Human rights and rule of law index" (by "Global Economy") for Greece was 3.6 points in 2022, out of 10.

[@Milk_enjoyer_]

Could u please make a video about what if Volga Germany got independence or like about Germans in Kazakhstan

[@Greek_moonwalker]

Μου αρέσει η ελληνική προφορά μέσα στα αγγλικά!!😄

[@DaimonaC]

If only they would hold Smyrna and took Constantinople with the areas around instead of marching towards Ankara ,maybe today we would have a different name as Greeks perhaps Byzantium, surely bigger population, bigger economy , power, strategic impact, etc …. Just Imagine we were so close … but west betrayed us like 1204 or worse…

[@justagreekhistorian]

I mean, trying to march to Ankara, into the depths of Turkey was a doomed plan from the start If they had stayed in Smyrna, perhaps history would have turned out differently indeed

[@DaimonaC]

@@justagreekhistorian the plan was doomed when our beloved allies stoped their economic support after the change of the Greek leadership. The Greek army until then, never lost a battle.

[@ilkerorhan8017]

@@justagreekhistorian Even in our worst times we pushed you into the sea, keep dreaming, we have been in these lands since 1071

[@justagreekhistorian]

@@ilkerorhan8017 You can't make this up Turks like you paint the entire nation in the most horrible light Saying that the killing of a bunch of innocent civilians is an ACHIEVEMENT? Really now, some human empathy You never see Greeks brag about atrocities being committed towards Turks because we are not proud You nationalists can't even take one moment to pay respect to any innocent life that was lost during the Greco-Turkish war Who cares to which population group does Anatolia belong? The population exchange could have been peaceful and all would have been fine, but nope, it wasn't and you bragging about it shows how little empathy for fellow human lives you have And for the record, the fact you've been in the Area since 1071 doesn't mean anything because Smyrna (modern İzmir) was Greek until 1922 where most Greeks were kicked out and the city was burnt to the ground Please keep your nationalist ideology to yourself

[@GreekSDR]

​@@ilkerorhan8017And you are proud of killing civilians... Pathetic

[@derikans]

You say turks burned the city of izmir but it's the opposite? The greeks done horrific things to resisting Turks both in coming and leaving. Yeah, I'm not greek. How did you know?

[@justagreekhistorian]

The Greeks did commit atrocities to Turkish cities (Prime example being Atça) but Smyrna was burned by the Turks I repeat: SMYRNA was burned by the Turks There is a difference -> Smyrna is the name of the largely Greek populated city that existed in Asia minor Izmir is the city that replaced it Yes yes I know technically it's the same city but Izmir is just so unlike Smyrna that I can't really say for myself that they are the same city Back on topic, The Greeks did do horrific things to Turks, not Greeks! And that's logical, as in a war there are no winners, as both sides commit horrific atrocities

[@user-iu1eg2pt7i]

Stop blue balling us and give Constantinople to Greece already!

[@noktafullstop點]

Only in dreams

[@Stormgamer-xb7gv]

The Good Timeline

[@Prestoninthezone]

AS A BYZABOO THIS IS A W 🇬🇷 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷

[@joshuawells835]

If the Greeks ever reclaimed Constantinople, does the Hagia Sophia become a church again, instead of a mosque?

[@Polaris4Music]

Fs

[@justagreekhistorian]

In that case yeah lol Don't see a reason for the Greeks to keep it a mosque

[@EnverSarac]

It would be a museum i guess.

[@Helleniccommander1821]

What is the name of the program you have use for this video?

[@justagreekhistorian]

Filmora X to edit, and paint.net for image creation I write my scripts in Microsoft Word

[@Helleniccommander1821]

@@justagreekhistorian Ok, thanks!

[@yunustahakosoglustudent2626]

Do people in these comments think war is call of duty? Turk here.

[@Giorgos-ee5kn]

Ωραιος φιλε μου

[@RazorSharpMC]

Greece went Croatia mode on Turkey

[@justagreekhistorian]

Doubt they'd be that harsh towards the Turks, but yeah atrocities would be common

[@BrianKarolina-ip5mz]

Consider Yourself The Alternate Historian Channel!

[@Maltheus_]

I found this scenario interesting and I’m glad you kept it realistic (you didn’t just give Greece all of Anatolia). My only critique being that I think you could’ve gone a bit further, at least until the collapse of the USSR. I think Greece would eventually get their hands on Constantinople and also Cyprus, since Britain would not be able to keep their colonies forever. Either that or Constantinople becomes an independent city state within the European sphere of influence.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Yeah, I do expect Constantinople to join Greece eventually, or to be picked up the new United Nations as an actual international mandate However, I chose not to do that because it just makes the video end on a better way Also I may have forgotten about Cyprus somehow, like I don't know how it didn't occur to me that they would likely join Greece Oh well, thanks for the support! I appriciate it a lot, and yes I try not to be unreasonable in these scenarios haha

[@LuthienwithoutBeren]

Afaik, king Alexander had a pair of monkeys. while he was walking with his dog in the garden of the palace, the female monkey attacked the dog. While the king was trying to save his dog, the male monkey, thinking that he had harmed his female, attacked the king and bit him in the genital area. The king contracted an infection, some say he died of sepsis, some say he died of rabies.

[@DeanMonsieur]

I wonder what prompted the Greek Historian to create this video... In all seriousness, great work, I enjoyed the maps and I wonder, perhaps Mussolini would seek to prop up Nationalist forces in Greece and attempt to coax them into shifting Greek opinion against Britain in an attempt to secure control over Constantinople. It probably wouldn't succeed, but I see it as a logical step Mussolini may have taken in this timeline.

[@justagreekhistorian]

Hey, US of Z glad to see you here! I think it's an interesting prospect that Mussolini would help the nationalists but I kinda doubt it I mean, Mussolini wanted to build his own empire, not share it with a potentially strong Greek state Regardless it doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things Anyways, thanks for the support man! Your videos are awesome too!

[@cix1782]

Loved the video! Love from Turkiye.

[@alexiosgrillis]

Μπράβο!

[@vallass]

what editing software do you use?

[@justagreekhistorian]

Filmora X (It's too expensive, so I cracked it which is why I am stuck with X)

[@noktafullstop點]

Only in alt history💪🇹🇷

[@petrospetromixos6962]

In real history you lost to a bunch of greek rebels while being huge empire 😂

[@noktafullstop點]

@@petrospetromixos6962 ottomans werent huge at the time, they were starting to lose power +gayreeks lost the turkish war of independence

[@petrospetromixos6962]

@@noktafullstop點 huge empire?Gigantic it was at 1821 with whole huge islamic world on their back and whole europe supporting them just like 1923 but Greece didnt have traitors on the head this time and turgay was oblitarated 1 vs 100. As foe who is ga y just look at ottoman traditional homobelly dance

[@petrospetromixos6962]

@@noktafullstop點 it was 1000 vs 1 you still lost XD

[@noktafullstop點]

@@petrospetromixos6962 we won the Turkish war of Independence keep crying

[@56REdits]

Interesting But Why Would Turkey Support Armenia And Greece?

[@bananamanduh3171]

maybe they didnt want the soviets to get closer to their borders like a buffer state

[@justagreekhistorian]

The Ottoman Sultan would be closely tied with Greece (in case of instability) therefore Turkey would become a semi independent vassal of Greece to some extent leading the Turks to support Armenia, though diplomatically

[@56REdits]

Ok thanks! I was just wondering if Turkish Nationalism would take over. This is one of the few scenarios I’ve seen with Greece and Turkey as Allies even after Greece gained its lands

[@jasoncrout2373]

Could be strong enough anti communist sentiments that they work with greece

[@jeremymeesters4658]

Hey another alternate history channel. You get a subscribe from me!

[@ntonisa6636]

I'd like to suggest a small correction on your ww1 period map (as seen at 2:32 for example). The way you've drawn the Ottoman-Bulgarian border runs exactly along the same path as the modern Turkish-Greek-Bulgarian border, which is common misconception that I see on a lot of ww1 maps, but in reality after the treaty of Bucharest the Ottoman empire still possessed a little more territory around Adrianople than Turkey has currently has (nowadays Edirne is right on the border). Also from 1912 the island of Imbros (Gökçeada) was administered by Greece (as was Tenedos which isn't visible on the map) until September 1923 when the new borders were finalised.

[@justagreekhistorian]

When it comes to the Bulgarian Ottoman border I am aware it doesn't run exactly on the Embros river I think the Central Powers even promised Bulgaria that land had they won the war, I just can't be bothered to change it as it is such a minute detail and also it's easier for editing borders As for Imbros and Tenedos I had no idea those islands were taken by Greece I always thought they were Ottoman until their collapse and in fact in my history school book it shown in the treaty of Sèvres that Greece gained these islands from the Ottomans which is odd Anyways, thanks for the corrections

[@ntonisa6636]

@@justagreekhistorian you're welcome and yes it is rather "minute" but I'm just something of a pedant when it comes to drawing maps especially with certain inaccuracies that I see being repeated over and over on dozens of maps they sometimes end up become pet peeves for me but the rest of your drawings seem to be spot on. As for Imbros I double checked Greece held these islands since November 1912 although it was also de facto occupied by Britain for a year or so in 1915 to serve as a forward base during the Dardanelles operation.

[@ntonisa6636]

@@justagreekhistorian l've been checking your other videos btw Nice job keep it up 👍

[@antiochusacharnensis]

Except of the survivor of Alexander the 1st , there is the scenario to making king another son of Constantine, as his son George 1st, who making king first time in September 1,923a.b.c.c.-

[@jimakisspd]

We would formulate an alliance, a confederation most likely with Armenians. Combined with Armenian skills and the resources of our lands in Anatolia we would not only formulate great industries(having also direct access to Iraqi oil) but combined with the fact that by reclaiming Constantinople we would have Bosporus and the fact that we are number 1 in shipping in the world, Greece would have become a great naval and industrial superpower that could easily counter England and the USA and France. And of course this is something that was not in the interests of any western power, which explains why our western ''allies'' backstabbed us.

[@szlanty]

Epic Ελλαδα moment

[@GoofySillyGuy]

you should do a video on if the paris commune succeeded orrrr you could do if the hungarian soviet repbulic (1919 or whatever) survived

[@GoofySillyGuy]

please pookie do it

[@BrodyN-fu4dr]

How come Anatolia falls, but the Bosporous doesn’t? Shouldn’t one fall or stay if the other one were to?

[@justagreekhistorian]

The Bosphorus was controlled by the British and the French so the Greeks wouldn't really be able to take that

[@BrodyN-fu4dr]

Sorry, I was thinking of the part with world war 2 where anatolia fell to germany, however the straits stayed with the british.

[@xanshen9011]

Nice fanfiction my greek friend 👍

[@giannismallios1808]

29 August 1824 Naval Battle of Gerondas(Gerontas). Turks and their Allies Egyptians were battling against defender Greeks. But Tunisian and Algerian battle ships were coming to help the Turks and Egyptians against Defender Greeks. The result of Naval Battle? Greeks won the naval battle of Gerontas,the Egyptians accepted damage to their ships and the Naval Boss of Tunisian Ships,get arrested from Greeks. 1 Vs 4.

[@GcubePlayer8]

I like this