What if Mace Windu BEAT Palpatine? -- Star Wars Lore Theory

What if Mace Windu beat Palpatine? How would the Republic and the Jedi be forever changed? Would the Star Wars prequels get a happy ending, finally? I'll theorize about that and more, using real aspects from Star Wars Lore, on today's video!
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Darkside Mace Concept from Cancelled Battlefront game
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[@EckhartsLadder]

www.patreon.com/eckhartsladder

[@havco501st7]

Can you do a what if the empire never destroyed Alderaan

[@TheRezro]

To be clear that Palpatine put a show is theory itself, not a fact. But as usual it is more complicated. Palpatine use technique known as Juyo, what was similar in nature to berserk (and BTW Rey also use it, for those complaining about her lacking skill), but he step up even to that learning how to create illusions. That scene where we see him flying and spinning like crazy, was only his intention detected by Jedi. But he actually instinctively move around the sofa and cut Jedi sword masters who expect attack from another side. Windu who use form of Juyo himself, was more experienced with effects and pull back. Thing is that he actually did catch off guard Palpatine, who was pushed into defense. From now one it was 50/50, as Palpatine did have many other tricks he could use to counter Windu. But then Anakin step in and Palpatine sniffed opportunity, so he start pretending to be defenseless and weak. Because Anakin deep down has good intentions, seeing suffering old man and outraged warrior trying cut him instead arrest, that tip over his loyalty. That was part of the theater, not that Windu couldn't beat him.

[@kheopsz81]

The yuuzhang vong series would consist 2 books only: they came, they won,their Galaxy. There is no Empire with thousands of SDs, millions of fighters, as the Republic would have gone back to the beginning: no weapons-make love not war.

[@TheRezro]

@@kheopsz81 And that is a problem. Vong exist only to justify stupidity of Empire design. When fact that guy designing they fleet was traumatized kid wit PTSD due to bad parenting is somewhat more entertaining solution. Same as the reason for crapines of TIE was due to lack of Empires faith in own people, alongside superweapon draining all resources. Holding at least two projects which could solve problem of the rebellion. It is somewhat more realistic and meaningful then turning unintentionally Palpaine in an anti-villain and making bad excuses for bad design, due to generic OP villain.

[@lunytoons3666]

What if the Jedi succeed in coop at the very beginning of the clone wars ?

[@xboxman1710]

Killing Palpatine and getting exiled from the Republic might have been the best thing the Jedi could have done as it would have removed them from politics and being the galaxy's peacekeepers; allowing them to get back to their roots and possibly learn from their mistakes.

[@HouseOfAlastrian]

Yeah... a couple of decades on Ossus or Tython away from the corridors of power would certainly do the Jedi Order good. It already worked for them after the Sacking of Coruscant at the end of the Great Galactic War when they moved to Tython and left the ruins of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant behind.

[@HouseOfAlastrian]

And also lets not forget the taint of the Dark Side is present under the Coruscant Jedi Temple, ever since the Sith erected a shrine in that area during the Great Hyperspace War.

[@G31M1]

I agree with you!

[@diegoprodriguez]

Yeah. They could become like Luke’s Jedi Order. Not necessarily a part of the Republic, but it’s own organization.

[@HouseOfAlastrian]

@@diegoprodriguez That's pretty much how the Jedi Order was before the New Sith Wars

[@obi-wankenobi8095]

Alternate Title: *What if Sith Lords Were Master Windu’s Speciality?*

[@EpicGamerWinXD69]

Hello there

[@Just_a_goofy_brazilian]

General kenobi, you are a bould one!

[@oldbean7150]

Hey master

[@Just_a_goofy_brazilian]

Now we just need asoka

[@SoldOutToJesus100]

"Your swords please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of...me...?"

[@tengkualiff]

"I need him!" *mace force pushes him away* "So where were we?"

[@mandolore_the_glorious7049]

I'm getting sick n tired of these mutha fukn sith in this mutha fukn galaxy

[@Bread_is_good44]

@@mandolore_the_glorious7049 lol

[@daedricender7276]

@@mandolore_the_glorious7049 since it is Star Wars you gotta say nerfhearder :p

[@apexraptor3273]

*begins to scream like starkiller*

[@K1BeatzThePlug]

@@mandolore_the_glorious7049 but without them without the Darkside the movies would be boring ash

[@Di5tantLine]

In this scenario, the Jedi have an ace up their sleeve. One that hates Palpatine just as much as anyone, and is currently on his way to Coruscant under heavy lock and guard. Maul. If he could be persuaded to give evidence that Palpatine was behind the Clone Wars, then I think that they would have a much easier time justifying a successful assassination. The galaxy at large likely still turns on the Jedi, but if they can prove that Palps was behind the Confederacy, and the whole war in general, a lot of people will feel betrayed and angry. It won't end nearly as bad as it could. Worst case scenario, you paint Windu as a radical in the same vein as Dooku. I think he'd be willing to accept that in exchange for killing the Sith Lord behind everything that killed so many.

[@robinbennett1686]

Didn't think of that. Nice one!

[@G31M1]

That's a really interesting thought, I completely forgot about Maul, so thanks a lot for bringing that important detail up.

[@lordMartiya]

There's just a problem: Maul is a known terrorist and crime lord. How likely would it be he'll be believed?

[@ronn-ammon8975]

lordMartiya : In our 'real world', criminal testimony for leniency is regularly accepted; so I'd think a big factor would be how common such things were in the Old Republic.

[@lordMartiya]

@@ronn-ammon8975 That would be the theory. In practice, Palpatine was hugely popular and Maul a known terrorist who the public first became aware of when he tried to kidnap or assassinate the queen of Palpatine's homeworld right as he was being elected. In this case, a court is extremely likely to throw out his testimony.

[@KingsandGenerals]

To that topic. One of the reasons I am interested in the High Republic books is the simple question: What happened that turned the Jedi into the Order of Mace Windu? They are all so broken in the prequel era.

[@liamclark2261]

Good to see you here

[@alexly9185]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@TaraZaraChara]

Kings and Generals likes Eckhart's Ladder. Who would have known!

[@3Rayfire]

I thought that the Jedi were in such bad shape because of Plageuis and Sideous' Force Veil that prevented them from being able to clearly sense and predict things through the Force? They had been hobbled from their ability to foresee the outcomes of their actions and perceive the machinations of the Sith through The Force.

[@shanenolan8252]

Love your channel

[@michaelmckeever8709]

Lets just say.........Padme would still be alive and Luke would not have daddy issues

[@mihan2d]

*Nooooo! That's not true! That's impossible*

[@crocodileguy4687]

Yes, the most important thing in the starwars universe

[@redeye4516]

Anakin might also be exiled from the Jedi because his secret family gets out, depending on how dogmatic they are after being exiled from the republic. Either they accept this one exception to the rules because they need Jedi or they kick him out in a display of the same dysfunction that caused them to get exiled. If Anakin is cast out, he may become a figurehead against the Jedi himself, and who knows how Padme would react to the idea of the Jedi trying to subvert their republic as a senator.

[@lostmusic99]

.............and they lived happily ever after?

[@randomrazr]

I HAVE A FAMILY! _HISHE

[@meepmeep8035]

Factions compared, battle breakdown, and now a hypothetical!? Eck is on a roll!

[@RuleroftheSandcastle]

What if he managed to win-du instead of being thrown out the windu?

[@heith1229]

*Vader sits there menacingly but entirely unaware that this is Obi Wan telling the joke*

[@taylorlibby7642]

Well he Win-didn't

[@unclestoma4699]

that gave me testicular cancer lol

[@ImpKnt80]

Whatever the outcome may be, the defenestrations will continue until mace win-do improves!

[@jayphat99]

I'm still trying to figure out the massive plot hole in this movie: how did Padme, +7 months pregnant with TWINS run down the ramp of her starship instead of stand at the top of the ramp, hand/arm supporting her back and not scream "ANAKIN, WTF!?"

[@cioplasmmajic8327]

Boring answer: advanced medical technology. Fun answer: repulsorlift hidden under her maternity clothes. It's a fairly common application of the technology after slavers perfected the technology a thousand years ago.

[@NightmareTroubador]

lol I love envisioning the more accurate pregnant Padme waddling down the plank screaming at Anakin. Trashlord deserves it.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Padme should've been a hell of a lot bigger than that if she was carrying twins, even if she wasn't full term yet.

[@SeviathTheHumanDrago]

@@jenniferbrewer5370 Maybe nabooans are different than regular humans? I see your point though.

[@isaacgraff8288]

Here is a question that always bugged me. How did no one know she was having twins? Even without medical tech, as big as twins stretch the mom... people would have known.

[@zoroux2826]

Anakin: "I NEED HIM" Mace: "I DONT GIVE A DAMN" *Mace Proceeds to shove the lightsaber into palpatines head*

[@mihan2d]

Sounds like Windu alright

[@hobomike6935]

If you want to stay ahead of me, chancellor.... *you need to keep both eyes open.*

[@stardragon7893]

Mace: "Say that again, I dare you, I double dare you Skywalker. Say you need him one more Force-damn time!"

[@calanon534]

Mace: "I'VE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHERFUCKING SITH, IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING REPUBILC!"

[@Bread_is_good44]

If he hadn't have talked and just sliced he would've won * leaned forward

[@jazzycap]

True

[@Sephiroth144]

No, still mistake- stab. Leaning back to slice...? Dude, your blade is an inch above his chest- lean forward a little bit and done.

[@mikereger1186]

Point usually beats edge.

[@Bread_is_good44]

@@Sephiroth144 true

[@slim420-e8v]

He did win.

[@SchardtCinematic]

Curious how many of the trade federation would confess to thier dealings with Lord Sidious in a trial after Palpatine death. They are cowardly and no longer have him to fear. The Jedi would need to seek out the truths over what started 20 years earlier with that blockade of Naboo. Everything that has happened could probably be traced back to that moment. When the sith reemerged.

[@JacksonC62]

That's an excellent point, any of the higher ups in the separatist alliance could testify to Palpatines true motives, and could most likely provide video clips of him as well.

[@pubcle]

Allow me to propose a partial counter. Oh the Jedi would certainly be ousted, and it would happen after the Jedi took over senators, but you vastly underestimate how much the Republic had already transformed. What you described of the citizens is mostly accurate, however you didn't account for the military of political leadership that would not stand for this and was almost entirely aligned with Palpatine already. The Jedi would be replaced not by going back to the Republic as it was but by a military junta. The Republic was already the Empire in all but name. The moffs had already been prepared, established, and organized. The Sector Governance Decree had been passed. I believe what would have happened is an officer coup against the Jedi in turn shorty after they assassinate Palpatine and take over the Senate. The Republic Navy especially would simply turn its cannons to the Jedi Temple and fire. The Republic's military officials, people like Yularen, Tarkin, Motti, Kaine, essentially all of the real command between the military were the most feverous supporters of Palpatine and his ideas, the fact that the Jedi murdered Palpatine and are trying to establish a dictatorship of the Jedi would break those ties even harder than Order 66 and see the most powerful figures of the Republic all turn entirely on the Jedi still. Let us also not forget the CIS still exists at this time, and since Palpatine did not give orders, that would add further to the chaos. They also almost universally disliked the Jedi. Almost the entire Republic military leadership, those who actually had positions to make changes at least, were in Palpatine's camp and already in support of the idea of an empire. Tarkin would be the one to take charge, as Palpatine not only actually liked Tarkin, but groomed him for the role. Everything he was perfectly fulfills the role, and with Palpatine absent he takes the throne himself to, as he would put it, establish order. What you would end up with is a secular military empire under the direct and near-total rule of Wilhuff Tarkin with a council of generals, admirals, and governors beneath him. Think the council room on the Death Star from the opening of Star Wars: A New Hope. That would be who commands the Republic after this. The Jedi still get pushed out, executed, and removed.

[@krspaceT1]

At worst I think the Jedi would have more warning if Emperor Tarkin came for the temple than in the Legends and Canon timelines. So they could probably get out of dodge. And hey Emperor Tarkin is not the worse leader to play misunderstood rebel against

[@Reyma777]

Mace and Yoda should’ve confronted Palpatine together. Also, didn’t Lucas confirm that Mace beat Palpatine. I’m certain Palpatine isn’t exponentially more powerful than Windu or Yoda.

[@darthnbl]

A bit hard when one of them is on kashyyyk and the other on palatines doormat with a short window of opportunity to defeat the sith.

[@EchthelionII]

Mace beat Palpatine because of his mastery of Vapaad, otherwise Palpatine is more powerful than Mace. As for Yoda, he and Palpatine were maybe equals in terms of force ability, but Palpatine was the better duelist I think. Hard to say though because their battleground was the senate rotunda. That said, the novelization of Revenge of the Sith states that Yoda probably wasn't strong enough to beat him, think of it like a main fight in DBZ, the villain seems too strong to be beat, but then is.

[@Reyma777]

@@EchthelionII I am already aware of Windu using Vaapad to beat Palpatine. In my opinion Mace is better duelist than Palpatine, but not stronger in the force. In my opinion during the Clone Wars-era the strongest force users were: 1. Palpatine 2. Yoda 3. Windu 4. Mother Talzin 5. Dooku (he starts to weaken due to age) 6. Anakin (start to reach full potential during Episodes 3)

[@EchthelionII]

@@darthnbl You spelled it right

[@EchthelionII]

@@Reyma777 Maybe, it's hard to tell. Right. I think that list is very accurate, though I don't think Mother Talzin would count/be there. She does use the force (or magic, or both, not sure which really), but I'm certain there are others more powerful than her.

[@crilltic7484]

One interesting thing here might be what the Clones do and believe, since of all the various factions in the Republic, without the inhibitor chips coming into play the Clones are honestly on the whole loyal to the Jedi above all others and the ones most likely and willing to hear them out and listen to them.

[@absalomdraconis]

Order 66 was just one of several such orders, one of which (67 I think?) was specifically an order to kill _the Chancellor of the Republic,_ something which would not reasonably be expected to be used by any said Chancellor- from this, we can infer that others could issue those orders, presumably including Palpatine's inner circle.

[@demanischaffer]

@@absalomdraconis However how many of those other contingencies were linked to the inhibitor chip? There's no way Palpatine would willingly put in plans for the clones to turn on him like they did in order 66

[@tanith117]

@@demanischaffer That was probably put in incase he got ousted from the office. He might have had enough sway to pressure the security council into enacting it even without the chancellorship.

[@KMCA779]

@@absalomdraconis the chancellor kill order required a vote in the senate... which he "was" so, yeah.

[@clonesolar]

@@absalomdraconis it was order 65 or order 64

[@wyguyflyguy]

EckhartsLadder is the best Star Wars KZbinr no cap

[@Mrs.Magix58]

He did beat Palpatine. Better title would have been “what if Mace successfully killed Palpatine.”

[@lawrencereid2767]

Preach

[@arishemghoul9571]

can he beat darth vader ?

[@HumanB312]

@@arishemghoul9571 Darth Vader is weaker than Prime Anakin and Palpatine but he can’t win. Mace force powers aren’t as strong

[@arishemghoul9571]

@@HumanB312 isn't Vader way stronger than Anakin even tho they are one and the same

[@HumanB312]

@@arishemghoul9571 I talking about the chosen one that never existed. Like what if Anakin was Grandmaster.

[@JusticeFrogs]

I think there are a few things to note here that aren't really covered. 1: There are charismatic senators who were already in opposition to the Chancellor (Organa, Mon Mothma, Padme). They are also at least on good terms with the Jedi. 2: Anakin might have panicked when he found out about Palpatine, but that loss wouldn't have driven him to the dark side. He might quit the order like Ahsoka, and just stay with Padme. Padme doesn't die in childbirth, and likely still has a significant political career. 3: This marks the end of the Rule of 2 (unless the dark empire/sequel trilogy palpatine cloning facility is already operational). 4: The corrupt senators wouldn't necessarily still follow Palpatine's plan. Lacking the central figurehead, they would likely squabble amongst each other (like a diplomatic version of the warlords era). They would likely still oppose the Jedi as a convenient scapegoat, but not to such a degree as they would be when manipulated by a living Palpatine. 5: The possibility that Nute Gunray would surrender, offering evidence that Palpatine coordinated both sides of the Clone wars, thus clearing the Jedi's name in the public. If Anakin isn't being sent to kill them, and Obi-wan is sent instead to capture, that could be a pretty significant change. 6: Without Order 66 being issued, the clones (insofar as their opinion matters) would still be pretty loyal to the Jedi. 7: The Jedi order may go into exile, similar to how Luke did with the new republic. With the threat of the Sith gone, the Jedi is less necessary as a peacekeeping force.

[@aapple1348]

You need to go outside

[@Blafina]

This is a good ending for the Jedi though. It forces them to change their broken ways. The Jedi were not evil, but definitely very wrong on many issues by the end of the clone wars.

[@michaelbread5906]

Were they tho? As a political body seeking peace for the entire galaxy, were they wrong? Of course it was their version of peace, which wasn't perfect, but were they wrong?

[@Blafina]

@@michaelbread5906 When regarding the Jedi as a political movement (using force, hm…) I guess you could say there were righteous. But, as a religious organization, they completely lost their roots. We know the Force exists, and they mostly stopped listening to it. There’s an extensive case to be made for either, which I won’t do, but either is fine. My opinion however is what I commented before

[@TechDragon1]

@@Blafina They never stopped listening to the Force, the Force is what guided their actions. Palpatine used the Dark Side to weaken their connection to the Force so they couldn't hear it very clearly, he clouded their vision. But there was no desire among the Jedi to listen to the Force less than before.

[@singletona082]

Personally? If mace had arrested Palestine he would have charmed the courts and declared the Jedi outlaw. If he had killed Palpatine I could see Anakin confronting him, the two fighting and Anakin living or dying depending on if mace realized he was letting himself fall or mot. However I could see mace eindu allowing himself to be personally damned if it meant shielding the Jedi order. Him suggesting that they brand him as a traitor so the public won't turn on the order we a whole. And yet st the same time to the public it would have been a fallen Jedi leading the sepretidts, and now this Jedi coup assassinating the chancellor.

[@rainbow_vader]

Anakin didn't really stop mace from killing palpatine, what really stopped him was him dramatically pulling back his lightsaber and striking a pose lmao. All he had to do was flick his wrist and it would have been over before Anakin could even scream "NOOOOO!"

[@usernotfound342]

exactly

[@gurmukhsinghbansal479]

Most realistic comment ever on this matter. Ive always thought the same thing

[@LordZontar]

It's as Tuco says in The Good, The Bad And The Ugly: "If you're gonna shoot, shoot. Don't talk about it."

[@paulsteinhauser434]

The events of Battlefront 2 2005 would play out. Anakin becomes a master, order 66 never occurs, and the Clone Army inhibitor chips are removed.

[@Spartan3D213]

When did that happen?? How does that happen.

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@Spartan3D213 it's in the Galactic Conquest mode play as the Galactic Republic and claim all planets.

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@michaelandreipalon359 yeah but I think they would've pulled through.

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@michaelandreipalon359 the C-B3 Cortosis droid would work.

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@michaelandreipalon359 It was a CIS B2-Super Battle Droid made out of a lightsaber resistant metal/mineral and was like a walking gunner it had two droideka blasters in place of hands.

[@amysargent4237]

5:32 Actually, it IS illegal to be a Sith in The Republic. In Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, it's said that being a Sith was illegal since the days of Revan, and I don't think the Republic would've removed such a law after Ruusan, so, in other words, you're wrong Eck!

[@goodmind4940]

At some point prior to the end of the Clone Wars, the anti-Sith bill was somehow nullified, and the Galactic Constitution which shaped the Republic was made to include a provision that specifically prohibited persecution based on religious or philosophical backgrounds-which included the practices of the Sith.

[@amysargent4237]

@@goodmind4940 WHAT!?! What Legends source says that? Why the heck would The Senate (The Real One) want to lessen the penalty for being a Sith, especially if The Jedi knew about it? I don't think The Jedi (as enforcers of Republic law) would stand for a law like that. Or, did The Jedi not have the capability to not enforce such a law, or didn't know about it entirely?

[@amysargent4237]

@@papapalps2415 I would love to read it, but if being a Sith was no longer illegal by The Clone Wars, then why would The Ruusan Reformations still be in place until the war broke out? Did The Republic Senate half-believe in their belief that The Sith were no longer a threat, while still wanting to control the size, and efficacy of The Republic's military forces anyway (for political reasons perhaps)? Why would The Republic keep what they built to prevent The Sith from rising again, while allowing The Sith to exist freely despite having The Reformations in place to stop them in the first place?

[@amysargent4237]

@@papapalps2415 But then why would The Ruusan Reformations be made right after The final Battle between The Republic/Jedi, and The Sith? Why would they literally call it "The RUUSAN Reformation", right after a hugely significant series of battles that ended 1000 years of fighting on said planet if it was just an attempt to reform military structure, and decentralize power in the government, with, as you say, Nothing to do with The Sith as a whole? Why didn't The Republic demilitarize itself after every conflict with enemy factions (Sith, or not) then? Look, I don't mean to be blabbering off-topic things like this as my entire argument, I'm just trying to make some sense of what I know about Star Wars Legends, and then make a argumentative point on it. I'm sorry if I sound like blabbering, and incoherent rubbish to you, but that's just how I happen to explain my point on KZbin Comment Sections (or, at least, try to).

[@amysargent4237]

Believe me, I've read The Darth Bane Trilogy, and I do remember what I've read from Path of Destruction on the subject of Legality of being a Sith in The Republic from early in the book. To be Honest, I haven't read the ROTS novelization (yet), but I haven't directly read a lot of other books in Legends either, but I try when I can. Most of what I know about Legends (and Star Wars in general) comes from watching KZbin Videos about it from people like Eck, Geetslys, Corey's datapad, and others, and I'm pretty sure i've gotten a lot of good information on how it all works. 1. Galaxy is formed 13000000000 years BBY, and evolves over time. 2. Celestials, Rakata, Ji'daii Order Rise, and fall. 3. Formation of The Old Republic in 25,053 BBY, it has many wars over several thousands of years as it grows in size, and power. 4. Rise of The Sith, and the beginning of thousands of years of fighting between The Jedi, and Sith that never ends. I could go on, and on, but this comment is getting long as it is.

[@Yharam1066]

Anakin: I need him! Mace: I DON'T REMEMBER ASKING YOU A GODDAMN THING!

[@GojoGunning]

Hard to believe it’s the same guy

[@Ayrton_Chitwood]

But Mace did beat Palpatine. A better title would've been "What if Mace successfully killed Palpatine?" Or "ended" if the "K" word is too strong for KZbin. Not trying to be an asshole, just defending Mace's skill as a Jedi.

[@EchthelionII]

I agree, I believe Mace absolutely beat Palpatine fair and square.

[@robertnelson9599]

He did back Palpatine into a literal corner.

[@crocodileguy4687]

@@robertnelson9599 teeeechnically it wasn't a corner because one of the sides Palpatine was next to was an open window and not a wall. Close enough tho

[@theshyguy4932]

@@papapalps2415 George Lucas said Mace Won

[@theshyguy4932]

@@papapalps2415 he says it in the episode 3 commentary.

[@j.scottwigginsjr.3946]

Should be titled: What if Anakin didn't attack mace Windu?

[@Zanic988]

"What if Mace Windu killed Palpatine?" TVA: "We don't do that here."

[@PhilipFry.]

Dont give Disney ideas

[@avay8726]

Star wars and Marvel crossover

[@superevolvedshinamalgamleo8168]

@@avay8726 yup

[@superevolvedshinamalgamleo8168]

@@avay8726 tva your under arrest

[@jrodstech]

More like what if Ani didn't interfere with the fight. Because mace fucking smashed big pappi pretty dang good.

[@elijahamores]

It was more of an equal fight up until the they reached the window and Mace kicked the Dark Lord in the face

[@panimalos5720]

He won the duel he just got well unhanded by anakin skywalker.

[@tyvamakes5226]

He had too much sand on Dantooine

[@6978969]

Exactly ; even George Lucas ended the debate and said he won.

[@elijahamores]

@@6978969 Yeah, Mace bested Palpatine due to his skill with the saber and Vapaad. Regarding the Lucas statement which is always brought up like a broken record, the problem is that Lucas has been inconsistent. On an interview he says Palpatine lost the lightsaber duel on the other the ROTS Novel plays that he is feigning his defeat, noting that Lucas has direct supervision and control over the publication of the Novel. Probably a good marketing move because it keeps the conversation going and stood the test of time. Just like the Tyrannosaurus vs Spino battle

[@DraconimLt]

Anakin wanted to 'disarm' Windu, he just took it too literally...😁

[@toddkurzbard]

You could say he was an unarmed Jedi.

[@lightwell]

I guess the only way they could get back in the Republic's good graces is when the yuuzhanl vong come knocking

[@kirillzakharov7336]

only then, the Yuuzhan Vong wouldn't have been nearly as successful as they were in the EU timeline. The only reason they were able to get such a strong grip on the New Republic territory is Borsk Feilya or whatever his name is basically ignored them. With the Galactic Republic still existing, and with someone like Bail, Mon Mothma or someone else in charge, heck, maybe even the old Chancellor Valorum, the Vong would be in a much worse scenario. The casualties would still be quite high, of course, but nowhere near to the 365 trillion in the original EU timeline.

[@Driekan]

@@kirillzakharov7336 it's worth bearing in mind that the Empire dramatically expanded the reach of the central galactic government, which under the Republic would not happen. Most of the Outer Rim would be independent, be it in fact or in practice. The Vong could run roughshod over the Outer Rim and build new worldships and raise surge coral slave armies for months while the Republic only gets vague, second-hand reports. It's also worth pondering whether a shell-shocked galaxy might reinstate the Ruusan Reformations.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Everybody shits on the Jedi until the Yuuzhan Vong invasion starts... then who's at the door of the Jedi Temple with their hat in their hand asking for help?

[@SephirothRyu]

I think one possibility would actually be that, when the Jedi take over, their rise to power leads to... well, a slow but subtle change in them. Such that by the time that Luke is of age, that the Jedi Order has effectively become Sith in all but name, save for the ones that realized what was happening and got out in time. In this timeline, we'd have Anakin, Luke, and Leia likely living on some farm planet or something, and likely Yoda would have gotten out of dodge too (its a good question to wonder if Obi Wan would have realized what was happening and left the order, who knows, maybe he or Mace would be the one who ends up cutting off Luke's hand at Cloud City if certain events go similarly, and perhaps Anakin would effectively be playing Obi Wan's role in this version of events).

[@jamesleduke873]

5:34 Actually, being a Sith was illegal under Republic law, according to Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. I doubt most people know about that law, but as far as we know, it was still on the books.

[@derworfnet]

Palpatine's last words: "This had NOT proceeded as I have foreseen..."

[@bradhedgehog12]

That what if did happen in Star Wars Battle Front II the classic one with you win conquest mode for the Republic

[@ig70000]

Very much a “even if I lose I still win type of games plan”

[@Sephiroth144]

Only if he had the clones and soul transfer on standby...

[@ig70000]

@@Sephiroth144 if only guess the poor guy just didn’t have the resources available fighting a war and all

[@Sephiroth144]

@@ig70000 Well, with cloning himself, it seemed the tech (for cloning Palpatine, or Force Sensitives in general) wasn't perfected for several decades- and we don't know when he learned/mastered the soul transfer to "take over" the clones of himself that weren't around yet.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Mace wins = He's viewed as a traitor by the General Public for attacking Chancellor Palpatine Mace loses = Anakin turns to the dark side because Anakin loses faith that the Jedi are strong enough to fight evil. The only winning move for Mace Windu was not to play. To not fight Palpatine at all.

[@TheSuperRatt]

That still ends with Order 66 and Mace's execution, alongside the extermination of the Jedi. Mace can't win, but he can take the choice that ends with the least suffering. To destroy the Sith... and themselves. Self-sacrifice is a core tenant of the Jedi path. This could actually be a good thing. Expelled from the Republic, the Jedi Council will finally be forced to look at themselves in a mirror and see how far they allowed themselves to fall. The Jedi could return to their roots, and not serve the Republic as its lapdogs, but as actual guardians of justice and peace. They could found a new Temple in the Rim, or refurbish one that had been left to rot, and begin rooting out the evils of the galaxy as they were meant to. While their reputation would have taken a hard dive, it would steadily build back up even stronger than before as they are not beholden to corporate/governmental interests, and can fight slavery, oppression and injustice wherever it rears its ugly head, and no matter WHO the perpetrator is. The galaxy would heal in time, and finally there might be balance.

[@danielkorladis7869]

@@TheSuperRatt agreed. Given the state of things in the outer rim in the prequels, there's plenty of work for wandering jedi to do.

[@ale-xsantos1078]

Tbh he should have let himself be imprisoned, tell Yoda that he wants to cut ties with the Jedi Order and that they should leave Coruscant Sure the public might still hate them, but hard to claim they were trying to take over when the guy who did it is in jail and the order who were supposed to be doing the coup just left

[@Kolonol1]

Yoda should have been there

[@Kolonol1]

@@TheSuperRatt how can there be balance if there is no dark? It would go into UNBALANCE and shift away and possibly destroy much much more...

[@jonathanperry8331]

Padme would have lived. The Jedi would be considered heroes and probably expel Anakin from the order but then he could live his life. Where do you think Jedi's come from anyway? A space stork?

[@calanon534]

Generally? Kidnappings. No, really, Force-sensitive kids are/were more or less stolen from their parents "for the greater good." It's a load of bullshit the way a lot of those kids got "recruited."

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@calanon534 from what I know, during the old republic, the order allowed force sensitives of all ages to join, but after the Ruusan reformation, they decided to stick to babies because then they could brainwash them from an early age

[@tupe444]

I imagine that in case this sort of scenario happened, Palpatine would have given at least one of his aides the steps necessary in order to start the Jedi purge. And although it would be less effective, the resulting devastation would be far greater. With more Jedi survivors, they might be able to form a proper resistance against the Republic/Empire, though I dont know how far that would get.

[@MDP1702]

Would he have though? Couldn't it be he never imagined he could fail and just kept things like that to himself?

[@empire-classfirenationbatt2691]

Thanks Jesse! This channel deserves to live and you're keeping it going! I salute you.

[@StarWarsTonight]

Windu beats Palpatine The TVA: 😑😑😑

[@wantedparts8256]

YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO die NOT kill HIM

[@jessef7979]

My pleasure Eck! Some of the best content on the platform!!!!

[@samschellhase8831]

What happens to all the clones that are loyal to their Jedi, though? I think you might have mass defections as clone captains and commanders (and other named and unnamed clones) follow their Jedi out of the republic, knowing that they’re fighting the good fight. Especially the ones that had Jedi that cared for them, like Rex and 501st, Plo Koon’s wolf pack, Mace Windu’s troopers. Aayla Secura, too, I think? Since Order 66 is never activated, the clones would know their Jedi are in the right, or are at least being pushed out unfairly, and you could have a near collapse of the GAR due to the clone leadership, and maybe even some human officers, leaving

[@Marcusjnmc]

the Clones would have been occupied with fighting the Seperatists still, Aayla had her clones switched out for reinforcements right before order 66

[@ntfoperative9432]

Yes, so many legions would probably defect to the Jedi. The 501st, The 212th, the 327th, and many others

[@Kong8503]

I love your videos and how you talk in great detail about topics and ideas that no one else thinks of are talks about. Please keep up the awesome work!!!

[@DerSpanier5001]

I would love to see a "What if Obi-Wan joins Count Dooku?" We see Dooku multiple Times trying to get Obi-Wan join him and I think both of them working together would be quiet interesting.

[@GrayJediJ_gaming]

He did win- just didn’t complete his objective…

[@onyx_gabriel]

Yeah, it’s been confirmed he won, but until Mr. I-hate-sand-‘cause-it’s-rough-and-course decides to come in and stop it

[@MightyMonarch07]

Alternate Title: What if Anakin liked sand?

[@rabbit859]

Great video. I particularly appreciate your pointing out that the Jedi didnt actually have any evidence, prior to half the council attempting to arrest/kill/overthrow the chancellor. Also, I loved that the Jedi would have had to prove Palpatine right and essentially overthrow the Republic, since not seizing the senate too would have had them all declared traitors anyway.

[@Gilladan]

The timing... I started a ttrpg this year set in an AU where Mace kills Palpatine and you fast forward 20 years where the Original Trilogy would have been, and this is *exactly* the stuff that I concluded. Papa Palpatine set the Jedi up to fail regardless of death. Though I think the Jedi as generals go a very military coup route in charge of the senate which is a slippery slope. Given the Jedi were losing their way, I think that it escalates further causing more cases like Ahsoka or Anakin having doubts about the Jedi way.

[@robinbennett1686]

I appreciate that your theory's are reasonable and make sense. Some people's aren't

[@macadder1177]

Damn thanks Jesse

[@kenasuma61]

Love this series, thanks eck

[@danielkorladis7869]

I think the Jedi end up being wandering do-gooders in the Outer Rim in this scenario.

[@francisandrewreblando1577]

What if padme survived childbirth.

[@H0NEYBadGERA47]

You broke my brain

[@Maltatata]

sAdNeSs

[@neofulcrum5013]

She’d probably sign on with the main rebellion

[@jgillan92]

God I loved that revenge of the sith game 🥰🥰🥰

[@GlidingZephyr]

That was a very well researched and comprehensive analysis. I also loved the prequel novelizations. Much more than the films, themselves.

[@IAsimov]

Oooooooh.... So essentially, even if Mace Windu got to shank him, it would essentially become Julius Caesar 2: Electric Boogaloo. He was far too popular to kill, and the distrust of the Jedi would've caused another disastrous civil war. Yeah. And knowing Palps himself, it would've also been something he'd plan for. If he can't have his Empire, then everyone dies.

[@doppelkammertoaster]

He did win but was betrayed. Great video, as always!

[@dairebulson7122]

This is certainly an interesting scenario! I certainly hadn't thought of it like that The Jedi becoming exiled and alienated from the main galactic civilization (which isn't the Empire)... while it's not the same, perhaps there are some similar examples of the Jedi becoming an independent faction in Legends, like the Jedi's self-exile from the Republic during the Pius Dea Crusades, or the Jedi Coalition's withdrawal from the Galactic Alliance during the Second Galactic Civil War. Or to a lesser extent, the Jedi's relocation to Tython after the Battle of Coruscant at the end of the Great Galactic War (though they remained very much part of the Republic in that situation). I wonder if in the initial stages, there would be an armed standoff at the Jedi Temple like against the Galactic Alliance during the Abeloth Crisis in Legends. But I wonder, without the Supreme Chancellor, would the Clone Army (the bulk of GAR's active forces) see the Jedi Generals or the Senate as the proper chain of command? If the Senate (and the new Chancellor they elect) is recognized, it's an almost-certain loss for the Jedi right off the bat. If it's the Jedi, the Jedi regime might be able to hold on for a while, or if opposition was not sufficiently willing to use violence. But in the end, it's likely the Jedi would relinquish control of the Army and the Republic in order to prevent a total civil war and end violence. The Republic might also face to greater resistance from the Separatist holdouts than in canon, as the Separatist Council and Parliament remain intact, the droid army has not been shut down, the Jedi are no longer with the Republic, the Empire isn't around to use ruthless tactics to forcibly and violently bring pro-separatist civilian populations in line, and the Separatists might feel a certain vindication for their cause at these political crisis in the Republic. I wonder how the Separatists would react to this situation. On one hand, I can see the Separatists pinning the blame of the war on Jedi, even turning on Dooku and blame him for being in cahoots with the Jedi and manipulating them, in order to reconcile with the Republic. This could be something the Separatist Parliament and Separatist Council would pursue. After the Separatist Council stopped getting communication from Darth Sidious, they'd imagine that either he'd abandoned them, or something had happened to him. In which case they'd need someone to blame in order to avoid criminal charges or at least reduce their sentencing in exchange for cooperation. On the other hand, I can see Separatist hardliners offering refuge in Outer Rim holdouts or an alliance to the Jedi, or at least offering some sort of olive branch toward the Jedi, in an attempt to counter the Republic. Strange bedfellows to be sure, but it's kind of like how the Confederation attempted to reach out to the Jedi Coalition against the Galactic Alliance during the Second Galactic Civil War, despite the two fighting each other bitterly at the very start of the war.

[@StarWarsAdrian]

Mace Windu: Let me lean forward by a couple of centimetres... oops sorry about that one my fellow Jedi Council member Anakin: angry 'I'm not a master' noises

[@bursegsardaukar]

Mace Windu kills Palpatine and claims the title of ‘The chosen one’. And Anakin is cast aside.

[@thecelestialpoet6169]

Awesome video Eck!!!!!! I love these "what if" videos and theory videos! They are so great! Keep them coming!

[@liamnoakes511]

Thanks Jesse

[@Molly-vn2hf]

I know I keep saying it but I love the return to classic content bro keep it up

[@ig_4220]

I'd be more interested in what the Separatists would do, without Dooku or Grevious to lead their forces and without Sidious to manipulate them would they surrender or seek peace with the Republic or would they be bolstered by more systems joining them?

[@SoloAxlion]

For the intro to this what-if I'm reminded of an image that made it into one of the Star Wars Memes videos, something along the lines of Windu being like "what if I Force Pull Fisto's lightsaber over and double block Palpatine to death?" which he then does.

[@winters1942]

You forgot to address one important group that could influence what happens. The Delegation of 2000. Depending on their reaction to Palpatine's death, would they side with or against the Jedi. If they side with the Jedi, then the damage can be mitigated by having someone from that group lead the Republic, yes it would look like the Jedi installed a figurehead, but at least it was someone that could maybe trust. Also have Anakin as liaison to the Senate.

[@Julian-pw5mv]

I think the delegation sides with the jedi since both padme and bail organa are personal friends with several jedi and would be privy to the full story, especially padme since anakin would certainly tell her he was the one who found out and she knows how close palpatine and anakin were. And since bail and padme are pretty much the leaders of the delegation and the most popular politicians after palpatine the rest of the delegation would likely follow, or at least a majority of them.

[@ripgasbaron9716]

Very good video. I also think Palpatine would have had a "Dead Man's Switch" for Anakin; possibily some holocrons and books with teachings of the Sith that would substitute he as a Master at least until his return from the dead (if he could have had it setup by the time in either Lengends or Canon)

[@Jedi_Spartan]

6:06 Couldn't the Jedi just get the security footage that shows Palpatine literally throwing himself at Windu and the other Masters and wiping out 3 of them in seconds? And also hearing him declare "I AM the Senate!"

[@josephpasquarella878]

Mace to the other jedi masters “ok guys so this guy is THE Sith Lord. So he’s probably REALLY strong. Probably great with a lightsaber. Definitely do not just stand there and wait to get stabbed”

[@qazaq25]

Given the scale of its implementation and the way palpatine acts I would honestly be surprised if in this scenario he didn't have some contingency to trigger order 66. Even if not stated it seems unlikely that between the manufacture of both chips and clones that no one knew about 66 and considering how long plans to form/implement the empire would take... Well the chance the every element of the plan wasn't known by multiple people (even if no one else individual knew the full plan) would have to be next to zero. Honestly I would imagine order 66 would still go through, the jedi would be hated for what they did and the result would be a smoother transition to the empire... All be it a long-term more fragile one with less clear leadership

[@absalomdraconis]

If I recall correctly, "Order 67" was specifically an order to execute the Chancellor of the Republic- albeit one that presumably was never issued.

[@Ro99]

The intro sounds SO good with headphones!

[@buffydaslaya]

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Palapatine video record the whole thing when killing the Jedi Masters? literally just play that over the holonet and bob's your uncle.

[@Toon_Lucario]

That portrayal of Palpatine in the eyes of the people is too real. I’m not going to name any names but that happens far too often when a terrible man gets incredible amounts of sympathizers

[@199Hybrid]

thanks jesse

[@thebugguy467]

When I saw mace's face (very poorly) superimposed over Vader throwing Palpatine down the DS2 reactor shaft... That's why you're my favorite star wars youtuber

[@dandragon8595]

*What if: Grievous killed Obi Won during Revenge of The Sith.*

[@crocodileguy4687]

No.

[@redeye4516]

*"Another fine addition to my collection"*

[@jamesdouglas6977]

Upon the event of his death Palpitine probably had an automatic communication set up to enact Order 66. Basically if he goes down he’s taking the Jedi with him.

[@macwelch8599]

Sidious threw that fight out of the *WINDU*

[@jazzycap]

His name was Windu and he went out of the window!

[@macwelch8599]

@@jazzycap the joke went over your head

[@abdulbah2176]

@@jazzycap the joke went over your head

[@AndreyKarlovich]

Have you ever heard rumours that in the family histories of the Windu's... that they never installed windows into their living quarters.

[@ImpKnt80]

“Defenestration is too good for you!” - Palpatine, probably right before drowning win-do in sith lightning and blasting him out the window.

[@HufflepuffJedi93]

Beautifully done!

[@CyberSkuII]

Thanks Jesse :>

[@fox9tfiwatanipadilla42]

Brilliant. That's an interesting take on a Mace Windu victory over Palpi. However, you forgot one variable to tip things back to the Jedi being loved. Grogu. How could the galatic senate hate the Jedi if Grogu exists not in exile but to be petted and adored XD

[@Goldenslayer]

I think that one thing to keep in mind was that Anakin was a very popular figure in the Clone Wars. People lost faith in the Jedi but not Anakin. Anakin was the poster boy of valor and justice; the "Hero with No Fear." This would heavily aid him in whatever path he would take. If the Republic ended up pointing to the Jedi as traitors, Anakin would probably be exempt, especially if he comes clean about his marriage, which would compel the population to sympathize with him, and even more so if he actually decides to leave. Anakin would have children with Padmé and live happily with them, but if the Jedi are completely thrown out of the Republic, I have little doubt that they would have elected Anakin to lead a new Force faction associated with the Republic if they wanted a new Force faction around If the Jedi were hailed as heroes, Anakin would be hailed as a god or savior, especially if it is revealed that he found out about Sidious' identity. Anakin would soon come clean about his marriage and probably leave the Jedi Order to retire with Padmé and relax on Naboo If the Republic saw the Jedi as traitors and Anakin turned on the Jedi, Anakin would, as you say, be sort of the figurehead pushing them away. If the Jedi did manage to take control, I reckon Anakin would be pushed by the Senate to be in charge as they trust him more than his fellow Jedi. In an effort to pacify the Senate, the Jedi would have to let him be in charge. If Anakin ends up being controlled and they find out, the Jedi are done for.

[@samueldimmock694]

The real question is, if the Republic didn't like the Jedi but Anakin still did, what would happen?

[@_thomas1031]

SPECTACULAR what if breakdown,Mate!🙌🙌🙌

[@DoItWithJustin]

Palpatine surviving this duel might answer the question, “what if Julius Caesar survived his assassination attempt?” Anakin is Palpatine’s natural successor (a la Mark Antony), so who is his Octavian?

[@ImpKnt80]

Why, Grand Moff Tarkin, of course. Naturally, as head of the moffs and with Palpatine’s inner circle in the senate and courts to dress up his military junta as an entirely legitimate democratically elected succession, everything else is just superficial window dressing, isn’t it?

[@TriggeringOpinionsandFacts]

I’d love a what if version of this. Mace windu successfully killing palpatine would set them up for exile, maybe Maas ameda convinces the senate to vote to execute order 66. But if they’re all forced into exile, then of course the CIS is falling apart unless another separatist movement leader setting up. I wonder how palpatines death would’ve helped anakin

[@allnamesaretakenful]

Thanks Jesse.

[@Helbore]

In terms of the prophecy of the chosen one, then I can only see two possible outcomes had Anakin not been there; 1. Palpatine was always playing games during that fight, as a part of his temptation of Anakin. If he weren't doing that, he'd have killed all four Jedi in rapid succession. 2. Windu only manages to defeat Palpatine by tapping too much into the dark side and ends up falling to the dark in Palp's place. The reason being that if the chosen one didn't exist, then the Sith should not be extinguished. So if Windu were to beat Palpatine, the sith would need to survive in some way. Having Windu himself lose his balance and slide to the dark side would be an interesting outcome. Would he go full-on Sith Lord and start slaughtering the other Jedi? Or would he try playing the game of pretending to still be a Jedi and then manipulating things in order to slowly tip the whole order towards the dark side? It could all end in a Jedi civil war, as the order fractures in two when the remaining good Jedi realise what Mace is up to. That could be pure chaos, as Coruscant is consumed by duelling Jedi factions.

[@goroakechi6126]

But he did. Palpatine was a rotting raisin and everything

[@OrionZaxs]

Good Lord, I read the thumbnail as "What If Mace Wondu"🤣!

[@madara4447]

What if revan never left to the outer rim and stayed with his wife bastilla

[@Kolonol1]

Then there would be a whole bunch of mini Revans and you would never know who did what or why and the cookie jar would be force choked to death

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

Yoda individually interviewing and administering purity tests to the new Senators is horrifying but great comedy material

[@bthsr7113]

Chaos.

[@GeniuzCethegus]

What I really like about this theory is the focus on the role of the public. This is something what I miss in the movies.

[@Bob_Squared23]

Awesome

[@SephirothRyu]

If seek power, the Jedi do after killing Palpatine, then the new Sith, they would then become.

[@Kaiserland111]

What do you mean "If Mace Windu beat Palpatine?" He did defeat him. That pathetic sod Anakin just ruined an epic kill.

[@GhostLink92]

I always thought Palpatine was using a master-level Force Persuade on the Senate, over time and on a huge scale. Now I realize he didn't even need that. He just convinced them the old fashioned way. Damn.

[@neofulcrum5013]

#AskEck: Would the rebellion have had a better chance against the empire if they set up in the unknown regions?

[@obsidian53-b32]

Interesting, But I do think that the Rebellion would dig there own grave, in several ways by doing this. The Rebellion lacks the major funds, military hardware, and knowledge needed to plot out new hyperspace routes, and maintain the security of their new bases against unknown threats in this region. They Also lacked Thrawn to light the way both in knowledge of hyperspace routes and Alien cultures in the area. Plus if the Empire found out about the Rebellion plans to militarize the unknown Regions, they could either cut the Rebels off from the rest of the galaxy easily trapping and destroying them in a war outside the public eyes. Or tell everyone that the Rebels are planning to wage a war against the entire Galaxy with Alien Savages. Now People might not like the Empire but I bet there's going to be a lot of new support to make sure that doesn't happen.

[@pavloszimbrakos4410]

Thank god an updated and way more current video with no snoke theory because we now know he’s a clone

[@solanumtinkr8280]

I think in that case, with Anakin's family being found out and Padme being pregnant, that since the Palatine would be gone, that the Jedi would eject Anakin from the Order. A lot of suspicion about Anakin would and I think a push for "padme or the order" would come about. He'd chose Padme and the Jedi and Anakin would go their separate ways. But the vision of Padme deing is still going to plague him in the moment and knowing she is having his child is going to make him more desperate not less. With the Jedi plot looking like an attempt take over, with them trying to enforce their will and choice of candidate... That is not going to go down well and I think Anakin will move in to politics with Padme's help. It might not go dark, but it all depends on the Jedi's next move. If it was to remove Anakin... Order 66 could still happen IF one of Palaptine's underlings know about it and decide to use Anakin... Only this time the Republic would be cheering them on with no latter regret. Coming back from that perfect set up would not be an easy thing and the Clone Troopers WOULD be used against the Jedi. The next move would be in the Jedi's court as to how it goes, there is no good move... ANd if it goes as badnly as it could and Anakin saw the Jedi as a threat to his family, we might still get a Darth Vader, one just far more family-centric. Not weakned by the lava fall... and with 2 apprentices to teach... YIKES!

[@MDP1702]

It would seem more likely that Anakin would support Padmé and her senatorial coalition to take a big role into restructuring the republic/senate, maybe even trying to get her, bail or mon mothma becoming the new chancellor. Either of them might still have punished the jedi or at least launch an inquiry, but wouldn't likely have led to great problems for the jedi. Honestly the main concern is how the military leadership loyal to Palpatine reacts and how do the clones, both infantery and naval?

[@solanumtinkr8280]

@@MDP1702 Which is why with Palpatine not acting in isolation, one of his direct underlings might be able tp push thing forward, for the sake of their own survival and the goal being within reach. All it taking would be the right kind of nudge to start the ball rolling down hill. YOu'd still need to convince the masses that Palpatine was a Sith, and it was not in fact a Jedi plot, which it would look like at the time. With the Senate having been affected in teh way or was, the people there are going to cling to that old world view as the inevitable confrontation takes place, something they will react to emotionally at first, and not with logic. That is if you use human standards. Pulling everyone around could be a long and bloody affair.

[@MDP1702]

@@solanumtinkr8280 Honestly, they could talk about him refusing to give up his emergency powers after the death of Grievous, contrary to what he promised. This would strike a much better tone than just talking about him being a sith, considering even a large part of the senate already demanded him to relinquish his emergency power. It really all depends how the jedi play it. If they neutralize Palpatines most loyal supporters, ensure that the senate is 'clean'/reformed to better represent the people and not other interests and then take a step back from politics entirely (maybe even temporarily relocating away from coruscant), the people might be convinced by more jedi sympathetic senators (like the delegation of the 2 000) that they acted in the best interest of the republic. I think that any other options likely would end up in another civil war between pro-jedi supporters and pro-palpatine supporters, and as long as the clones aren't forced by the chips, they'll likely be split among both sides, though considering one side has the jedi and a part of the senate, this one probably would have the loyalty of many of the clones clones, though not all.

[@solanumtinkr8280]

@@MDP1702 Maybe... I think the think to "beat" Palaptine in that situation as of Revenge of the Sith, when he confronted him and Anakin turned up, he would have to have killed him. Mace was firmly of the opinion he was too dangerous to live, ergo, death. That would result in a fight between Mace and Anakin, the death of one or the other being the most likely outcome. After that the split might have become permanent, it might even have splintered the Jedi Order itself. One focused on being Magic Monks for all intents and purpose, the other going it's own way and likely more focused family/love, on being human (or the alien equivalent) AND helping others. But it would have shattered it... And then there would also be the Sith. One giant mess. All depending on how the Jedi reacted, but with hard polarized opinions at play a civil war and split was inevitable, and that united by force has to be kept by force, a giant mess.