What if Pearl Harbor Never Happened, Life in Cyprus, and Peasant Armies of China - WW2 - OOTF 024

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World War Two

World War Two

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 399
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
All these questions were asked by members of the TimeGhost Army. Why you ask? Because they keep the entire project going! The least we can do is answer any questions they have about World War Two. Remember you can sign up at patreon.com or timeghost.tv Oh yeah, and we actually have a whole new format that's kind of dedicated to answering questions: TG Shorts: Check out our most recent one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mH-aY3eZhaaLb6M We're always interested to hear your thoughts on these questions, but please remember to follow our rules of conduct: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518 "
@QuizmasterLaw
@QuizmasterLaw 3 жыл бұрын
Mispronouncing Japan and I'm supposed to just let that slide? No pasaran! Someone's been too long out of Texas and too much in Sweden!
@percamihai-marco7157
@percamihai-marco7157 3 жыл бұрын
I hope that you will make a TimeGhost series about the ethnic tentions in Cyprus and the Turkish invation
@PotentialHistory
@PotentialHistory 3 жыл бұрын
Of course the Germans would train the Chinese "36th" division. Something something punchline.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Nice to know you watch our videos!
@QWE2623
@QWE2623 3 жыл бұрын
I don't get the joke either
@dennisholt7684
@dennisholt7684 10 ай бұрын
I get it and I'm glad they know each other!
@VladTevez
@VladTevez 3 жыл бұрын
*Part 1:* The British gained Cyprus in 1878, as part of a deal with the Ottoman Empire, because of the British support during the Congress of Berlin. Cyprus’ strategic location near the Suez Canal made the island important for the British Colonial Empire. In Cyprus, the newly arrived British faced two opposing nationalisms. The Greek-Cypriots (80% of the population), were campaigning in favor of “Enosis”, i.e. the Union of the island with Greece. The Turkish-Cypriots (18% of the population), especially after the establishment of Mustafa Kemal’s national movement and the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 (in which Turkey explicitly relinquished any claim to Cyprus) were supporting that if the British were to leave Cyprus, the island should be “returned” to Turkey. The situation in Cyprus in the beginning of 1940’s was depressing. After the 1931 revolt of the Greek Cypriots against the authoritarian rule of Sir Ronald Storrs 1 (the real life inspiration for “Mr. Dryden” in “Lawrence of Arabia”), a strict dictatorship was imposed, “ influenced by the political philosophy of Mussolini ”, according to a functionary of the British Colonial Office, in 1938. The political leaders of the Greek Cypriots, from all political spectrums, were jailed or exiled. The Church of Cyprus, the main political representation of Cypriots since 5th c. AD, was blocked by the British, who forbade elections for new archbishop, since the death of the latest one in 1933. Political parties were forbidden, elections were abolished, Habeas Corpus was abolished, the communal authorities were directly appointed by the governor, the Greek flag was forbidden to be publicly displayed, the British authorities intervened with school curriculum, to suppress Greek nationalism and create a new “Cypriot-only” identity, loyal to the Crown. The only legal associations left were the trade unions and the football (soccer) clubs, though they remained under strict British control. This period was named “Palmerokratia” (“Palmerocracy”, rule of Palmer, the Governor Sir Herbert Richmond Palmer). The local economy was worse than the political situation, since 1929 Crush. Cyprus was a farming economy, and 82% of farmers were in huge debt. Between 1927 - 1930 banks had given loans of £ 390.338 (£ 49.628 were loans from the government). Most of them were used to pay loan sharks. Agricultural debts were over 3 million British Pounds. Divestments and auctions were daily (18.000 mortgaged real estate was sold; 19.500 real estates were auctioned). By forced divestments, c. 550.000 acres were sold, along with a million fruit trees and 8.000 homes. The newly landless people were either migrating in Britain or moved to the cities working for petty wages or worked in the mines (copper is named from Cyprus). The latter worked under dangerous conditions and died in large numbers, either because of mining accidents or because of cancer. The political exploitation of the British was accompanied by the economic exploitation of usurers and mining companies.
@VladTevez
@VladTevez 3 жыл бұрын
*Part 2:* This condition was still in effect when WW2 started. The majority of the people heard the news of the war with indifference. Nevertheless, as with WW1, a considerable number enlisted in the British Army, because the salary could feed their families. Cypriot mules are one of the best mules’ breeds and were much needed and valued by the British Army for their transport. A few days later, on September 8, 1939, the Governor of Cyprus called for the enlistment of 500 Cypriots in the British Army as motorists or engineers, scribes and cooks, preferably unmarried, aged 18 to 30 years old. By October 6, 1939, 54 Cypriot soldiers had been selected, on strict criteria, to depart for Egypt and from there to France. In February 1940, the Cyprus Regiment was officially formed. It was consisted of one Infantry battalion, along with Engineers, Transport and Pack Transport Companies. From 1939 until August 15, 1945, 16.624 soldiers were enlisted in the regiment. The first enlisted soldier of the Regiment was the Turkish Cypriot Nevzat Halil from Nicosia, with number CY 1 and date of enlistment October 2, 1939. The Cyprus Regiment was the first British Colonial unit that fought in WW2, in the Western Front, and it distinguished itself during the evacuation of Dunkirk. In June 1940, the “Cyprus Volunteer Force” was created, having the role of a Cypriot Home Guard. This force offered services in fortifications, military supplies and guarding of warehouses, while it also served as an Engineer Corps, following enemy (mainly Italian) air bombardments as well as Technical Corps. After the occupation of Crete in June 1941, and the danger that Cyprus was going to be Germany’s next target, the men of the force were gradually supplied with military uniforms and weapons after a short training course. 4450 Cypriots, officers and soldiers, were included in the “Cyprus Volunteer Force”. In WW2, hundreds of Cypriot women volunteered in auxiliary services in the British Army and the RAF. This was the first massive participation of Cypriot women in the public life, and they had to overcome centuries-old prejudices and attitudes about their social status. Among the volunteers were members of well-known Cypriot bourgeois families, but mostly employees, nurses and maids. We know the names of 117 Cypriot female volunteers. One of them was killed in September 1943 and is buried in a military cemetery in Egypt. These numbers are impressive, given that Cyprus had less than 400,000 inhabitants (347,959 inhabitants at the last pre-war census of 1931). In addition to Cypriots living in Cyprus, it is estimated that at least 500 Cypriots living as immigrants in Britain and Egypt were enlisted in other units of the British Army. After the fall of Greece in May 1941, Cypriots of Egypt joined the Greek armed forces in exile. Cypriots also joined other countries in Allied armies during World War II: 306 Cypriots living in USA enlisted in the US Army and 135 Cypriots in Australia enlisted in the Australian Army. At the same time, the British administration begun taking re-approximation measures concerning the Cypriots. The British contacted the surrogate archbishop Leontios, they appointed a number of Cypriots to senior positions in the public service and opened a few jobs to partially combat unemployment (road repairs, telephone and electricity installations construction, small fortifications). Also, by Governor’s Degree, all agricultural debts were reduced to one third and interest rates fell to 5%. Nevertheless, the life in Cyprus was calm and far from any worries for the war (apart the families of the conscripted), until October 28, 1940. The news that Italy attacked Greece caused a massive popular rising. Church bells were rung again, Greek flags were demonstrated, fundraisings were made to financially support Greece (the Greek government announced in January 1941 that it received £ 70.000 from Cypriot fundraisers) and huge crowds headed to the British enlisting offices and to the Greek consulate, to enlist in the British and Greek armies. More importantly, the Church and the remaining Greek-Cypriot leadership, declared that the cooperation of the Cypriots with the British authorities was essential for the Greek and the Allied victory. From now on, the war effort became the main concern of the people. Because of the Greco-Italian war’s beginning, November 1940 was the month with the highest enlistment during WW2: 921 men, the 7,5% percent of all enlistments. For political reasons, the British did not help the enlistments of Cypriots in the Greek Army. Since the private transport to Greece was very difficult during war time, only 94 Greek Cypriots managed to go to Greece, through their own expense. Also, around 50 Cypriots living in Greece, mostly university students, enlisted in the Greek Army as well. The rest who failed to enlist in the Greek Army, ultimately joined the Cyprus Regiment. As a compromise for the Cypriots, the British authorities in 1941 terminated the oppressive regime of the 1930’s and allowed again the existence of political parties and the holding of municipal elections. So, on April 14, 1941, Greek Cypriot communists founded the AKEL (“ Progressive Party of Working People ”) party. On June 16, 1943 AKEL called on its members and all the people to join the British army to fight fascism / nazism. This declaration was widely influential and 800 members of AKEL, including 11 Central Committee members, were enlisted and joined the battle fronts. Until the German invasion in Greece, in April 1941, around 3,000 - 4,000 men of the Cyprus Regiment (Greek and Turkish Cypriots), mostly Sappers and Engineers, were transferred in Greece, as they had the advantage of knowing the language and the territory. Although the Cypriot units did not fight as combat units, they nevertheless suffered enormous casualties: 2256 men; 5 KIA, 2 wounded, 1426 MIA and 823 prisoners (600 alone caught in Kalamata, trying to escape along with other British soldiers), according to the first official calculations, in October 1941. Cypriots were massively arrested in Crete as well, since the British first evacuated the combat units. The prisoners were gradually assembled in Thessaloniki, from where they were transported by rail to various concentration camps in Europe. By the end of the war 35 Cypriot prisoners of war died out or were executed. The large number of MIA is explained by the fact that the Cypriots, in sharp contrast with the British or the ANZACs, could take off their uniform and mingle with the Greeks without the danger of detection. The Greek and Turkish Cypriots who didn’t managed to escape Greece after the invasion, joined the various Resistance Groups and the survivors return in Cyprus after 1945. It is difficult, though to estimate cohesive numbers. Interestingly, during the final stages of the German Invasion, the Greek Government requested from the British to move its seat to Cyprus. The British, knowing that such move would greatly strengthen politically the movement of Enosis, declined, with the pretext that this move would provoke the Germans to invade Cyprus, and the Greek Government in exile was moved to Egypt. As the war continued, the British administration kept the policy of rapprochement with the Greek Cypriots. On January 31st, 1943, Winston Churchill visited Cyprus, and had several meetings with the command of the Cyprus Regiment, the caretaker Archbishop Leontios and other politicians from both communities.
@VladTevez
@VladTevez 3 жыл бұрын
*Part 3:* For the rest of the war, the Cyprus Regiment fought in North Africa, participating in the battles of El-Alamein, and in East Africa (Battle of Keren), where the Cypriot mules were proven extremely valuable on the steep, stony and narrow mountain trails. In 1944, the Regiment was transported in Italy. Initially, it was assigned with the Poles, the 5th Kresowa Infantry Division and 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division and later with Indian units, the 4th Indian Infantry Division and the 10th Indian Infantry Division. In Italy, the Cyprus Regiment became famous for its reliability, it fought in Monte Cassino, and along with the Indians reached the Rubicon. Both the Polish and the Indian commanders cited their gratitude for the Regiment in paper. After the end of WW2, the Cyprus Regiment was transported to Palestine, until 1948 and the Israeli Declaration of Independence, when it returned to Cyprus. The unit was dissolved in 1950. In total, the number of the fallen Cypriot soldiers, Greeks and Turks is 374. Tombs and cenotaphs of Cypriot soldiers of the British Army who were killed in 1939-1945 exist in Cyprus and in various cemeteries in 23 other countries (Egypt, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Greece, Eritrea, United Kingdom, India, Israel, Italy, Kenya, China, Lebanon, Libya, the Netherlands, Poland, Serbia, Singapore, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia and the Czech Republic). Cypriot fallen are buried in 71 military cemeteries and war memorials. The largest dispersal of Cypriot tombs is in Italy: 55 “Cypriot” World War II military tombs are found in eighteen different cemeteries. Most of the Cypriot soldiers are buried in the cemeteries of Greece, 100 in total, indicating the large participation of Cypriots in the Greek campaign of 1940-1941. 79 Cypriots are buried in twelve Egyptian military cemeteries: This is explained by the Cypriot participation in the North African battles and the permanent presence of a “Base-Depot” of the Regiment in Egypt. A significant number of fallen Cypriot soldiers, 57 in total, are buried in the two Nicosia military cemeteries. They are mainly victims of hostile bombardments or soldiers who have died in various accidents or died in hospitals from illness. In Israel, 18 men of the Regiment are buried, while most, if not all, of the 17 Cypriot soldiers resting at the Prague military cemetery in the Czech capital were held as prisoners of war. Finally, there is one Cypriot tomb in India, in Kenya, in Singapore and in Hong Kong. The legacy of WW2 in Cyprus was tightly connected with the developments in Greece and the Middle East. From one side, the Greek Civil War reached Cyprus and its impact tore apart the Greek Cypriot society in communists and anti-communists, and in Middle East the withdrawal of the British from Palestine, made Cyprus more important than ever for the British, by establishing permanent military bases and intelligence posts. Concurrently, the global wave of decolonization, empowered the Greek Cypriots, communists or not, and they intensified their struggle for self-determination and Enosis with Greece. This scenario terrified the Turkish-Cypriots, who organized themselves and seek assistance from Ankara. The decade from 1945-1955 was a decade of political tension, which exploded in 1955, when the Greek Cypriot organization EOKA, began an armed anti-colonial struggle against the British, which ultimately led to the creation of the independent Republic of Cyprus.
@Mr_M_History
@Mr_M_History 3 жыл бұрын
As a history teacher, I look up to you so much. Your narration and conviction is second to none! I've definitely taken many pointers from your narration style. As a Sinophile, I love that you covered the Chinese peasant armies too!!
@LucidFL
@LucidFL 3 жыл бұрын
At 10:20 he just reads the list of divisions from the telemprompter and yet he does it with so much acting effort that makes it seem genuine.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@FailedAragorn
@FailedAragorn 3 жыл бұрын
@Belagerungsmörser the Sheep Assuming you didn't mean that as a joke, sinophilia (or anglophilia, or francophilia) is simply an enthusiast for a particular culture or ethnicity.
@harrischrysanthou9272
@harrischrysanthou9272 3 жыл бұрын
Nice! Cypriot here! Very impressed with the information you guys have on the situation in Cyprus then!
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so!
@r.anthony8685
@r.anthony8685 3 жыл бұрын
A few facts regarding Cyprus: - Two Greek pri-ministers requested that a part of the island be ceded to the king until the liberation of the country - Two muslims took part in one of the greatest anti-Axis sabotage operations in Greece (Battle of Gorgopotamos bridge) as members of the Resistance - A Greek special forces unit (Sacred Band) used Cyprus as base for operations in the Aegean islands - The British did not train most of the Cypriot volunteers as fighters in order to avoid an armed insurrection after the War
@atomickrispies
@atomickrispies 3 жыл бұрын
This has me wondering why the Germans didn't make Cyprus some kind of focus during the 41-42 years. Like with it being that close to Alexandria and geographically way easier to invade than Malta, it has me pondering what their reasoning was.
@VladTevez
@VladTevez 3 жыл бұрын
@@atomickrispies German planes didn't have the range to reach Cyprus, neither could logistically support a mass bombardment
@topeka088
@topeka088 3 жыл бұрын
@@atomickrispies Cyprus was in no way easier to invade than Malta. Malta is only 80 km from Sicily. Cyprus is 450 km from the closest Axis holding at Rhodes. Which, itself, had a tenuous supply line.
@alessiodecarolis
@alessiodecarolis 3 жыл бұрын
Plus, had the (totally incompetent) italians' occupied Malta, Cyprus would've became unteniable, because the whole MTO would've turned in an axis' lake, the allies could' vent no more support the forces in Egypt, and reinforcements for N. Africa would've arrived easier for the Axis' forces
@GreekAnthems
@GreekAnthems 3 жыл бұрын
most of muslims though remained neutral in the whole process. pretty much like turkey did, trying to see the final outcome of the war and choose their ally accordingly. typical.
@NexusBreeze99
@NexusBreeze99 3 жыл бұрын
I should write this under every video… ashamed that I don’t. But this damn channel is so good it’s unreal. I seriously don’t understand why there are under a million subs still.
@brianmartindale2221
@brianmartindale2221 3 жыл бұрын
Americans under forty years old, in general, think history is irrelevant to their lives and their future lives. I could very much say the same about the political process.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! We're humbled by how highly you think of our channel and are happy to call you a fan!
@gunman47
@gunman47 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you to the team for uploading so many videos this week! Already feeling a bit spoiled with a weekday weekly video and a special and now another OOTF in a span of a few days. Keep it up!
@steverogers8163
@steverogers8163 3 жыл бұрын
One actually useful thing about what ifs, is that they help reveal the interconnections of events. Most of which are obscured by bigger events but are none the less important. Sometimes more important than the big events in retrospect.
@charliesmith4072
@charliesmith4072 3 жыл бұрын
I love the week-by-week style of following history. Fifty years ago when I was in college I did it by reading New York newspapers on microfilm. The American Civil War looked very different that way than the usual year-by-year style. Except for Grant's work in the West, it looked like the North would lose until 1864.
@pieceofship2116
@pieceofship2116 3 жыл бұрын
I'm really glad you talked about Cyprus. Whenever I hear anyone even mention Cyprus I get really happy for the island that I hold the closest to my heart XD!
@jimcronin2043
@jimcronin2043 3 жыл бұрын
One factor not mentioned was that even though Japan might have secured the resources of the Dutch East Indies (DEI) without resorting to war with the US or GB, for them to get it back to Japan the Philippines were directly in the midst of the sea lanes between DEI and Japan. This would make them much less secure with respect to exploiting the resources. The Philippines. however, were in the process of gaining independence. What if the Japanese had waited until then?
@dafrandle
@dafrandle 3 жыл бұрын
I don't think they could wait that long with the war in china churning.
@danielstickney2400
@danielstickney2400 3 жыл бұрын
Philippine independence wasn't scheduled until 1944, and the Japanese only had enough oil to last 18 months according to their own projections. Even if the Philippines were independent there probably would have been an ongoing US military presence.
@jimcronin2043
@jimcronin2043 3 жыл бұрын
@@danielstickney2400 It was a "what if", but I would add that by the end of 1941 the Japanese had taken all they really wanted in China. They never planned to control 100% of the country. Any fighting there after that was just sparring between the two to see if there were weaknesses. They could have altered their 18 month projection by changing the timing of their plans which would have lessened tension with the US. They could have leveraged the impending Philippine independence to gain concessions with the US. It would have to be said that they had a measure of hubris in their assumption that America would get a bloody nose and then sue for peace.
@DMS-pq8
@DMS-pq8 3 жыл бұрын
Even after independence the USA guaranteed Philippine security
@minderbart1
@minderbart1 3 жыл бұрын
it wouldn't have mattered. the treaty of manila guarantees that the us comes to the defense of the philippines as well as retain military bases. it is very likely, or even more likeley, that this would still be the case if it happened earlier. so if japan attacked the philippines after they got their independence they would still be at war with the us.
@iKvetch558
@iKvetch558 3 жыл бұрын
The scenario in which Japan attacks only the Dutch East Indies, and assiduously avoids attacking either the UK or US, is a very interesting one. I have tried to work this one out on several occasions...and it definitely complicates FDR's actions in regard to declaring war on Japan. However, it seems to me that all it would do is delay US entry into the war...perhaps by a few months, but more likely only for 2 or 3. War with Germany was already inevitable before December of 1941, as FDR had done a very good job changing public opinion to favor war with Germany...in November of 1941, the US people were in favor of war with Germany by about 68 percent. The thing that officially sealed the deal was the US signing the Atlantic Charter committing to the defeat of the Nazis. But in relation to Japan, I think the Atlantic Charter is also the reason why FDR would be delayed only very briefly in his push towards war with Japan, since The Netherlands was a signatory of the Charter with the US and UK and others. I think that FDR had successfully made The Netherlands an official US ally, and would have been able to use that to justify a war declaration against Japan, especially if US rubber interests in Malaya had also been attacked as Indy describes. 🖖✌
@71kimg
@71kimg 3 жыл бұрын
War is declared when rearmament is done (only earlier if attacked) and is given to happen when rearmament is in full swing - that should be the default viewpoint. Japan and Germany were ready before Russia and USA - which both had massive rearmament buildup when they were attacked.
@iKvetch558
@iKvetch558 3 жыл бұрын
@@71kimg FDR was not going to wait until the US was done building up to declare war on Germany...in December 1941, war with Germany was perhaps 3 months away at most. You are right that if not attacked, the US would have waited longer than that in the Pacific, but that Japanese were not going to wait, and I think that FDR would use an attack on the Dutch to try and get Congress to declare war on Japan. Perhaps he would have failed, but once the US was at war with Germany in early 1942, war with Japan would have ended up following pretty quickly behind. To be sure, the entire war would have been extended by the delay in US entry, but a delay in US entry does not really mean the war ends up any different than it did.✌
@TheUstasha101
@TheUstasha101 3 жыл бұрын
I definitely agree, it would depend on when Japan occupied the DEI, if it is after the Atlantic charter (post August 1941) both the US and UK declare war on Japan. However should Japan occupy the DEI in the fall of 1940 (July-November), Roosevelt's hands would likely be tied down, instead a brutal embargo would be enacted. But if Japan controls DEI and very likely French Indochina, it can withstand any Embargo the US/UK throws at them.
@71kimg
@71kimg 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheUstasha101 nah - conscription started September - rearmament - is a big train to stop - and Japan/Germany basically had lost when that dice had been thrown
@iKvetch558
@iKvetch558 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheUstasha101 Except, as I understand it, even if they take the DEI, they do not get enough oil to replace what they lose from not being able to buy from the US. I am not sure they could really hold out...especially since the oil has to be shipped so far. But it is possible they could do what you describe. ✌
@HistoryOfRevolutions
@HistoryOfRevolutions 3 жыл бұрын
Isoroku Yamamoto ((山本 五十六) once stated: "It is like a disease to think that an invincible status has been achieved after being satisfied with the past successful operations"
@edgar46026
@edgar46026 3 жыл бұрын
Wait?!? Did Indy just mentioned those Chinese divisions from the top of his head??? Well, if not, that's my new headcanon
@leonardooriano1591
@leonardooriano1591 3 жыл бұрын
The power comes from the chair…
@sweeeetteeeeth
@sweeeetteeeeth 3 жыл бұрын
i said the exact same thing
@comradesam3382
@comradesam3382 3 жыл бұрын
Srysly, I knew about the German advisor training and could barely remember the 3rd
@LucidFL
@LucidFL 3 жыл бұрын
Its acting.
@edgar46026
@edgar46026 3 жыл бұрын
@@LucidFL we may never know
@eliassolomou980
@eliassolomou980 3 жыл бұрын
As regards to cyprus, over 30k Cypriot males fought in ww2. As a per capita contribution its been said cyprus gave the most with over 20k serving in the cyprus regiment, another 10k in other British regiments and others served as volunteers in the Greek army . Noteworthy examples include a former cypriot president who fought in the RAF in bomber command as a crew member of a blenheim bomber. Another fought in the battle of monte cassino earning a medal for single handedly capturing over a dozen German soldiers in a nearby town. Later on he would fight in the u.s army in Korea earning him other awards and citizenship. He now resides in NY. As for life in cyprus at the said time life was very hard. The British closed down many enterprises particularly in the UK owned mining sector which compelled many to enlist in army. Food shortages were also acute due to priority given to exporting as much as possible for the war effort, same also occurred in India.
@jordanparks99
@jordanparks99 3 жыл бұрын
Another great video. You’re right always gotta remember history doesn’t happen in a vacuum
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Jordan!
@thewacokid8906
@thewacokid8906 3 жыл бұрын
Love this channel
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@konigweeb3072
@konigweeb3072 3 жыл бұрын
Just here too say thanks for the content Indy and crew. I wished I had money for patreon but am just a broke collage kid thats starting history so I sadly dont have the luxury.
@luulasmene7786
@luulasmene7786 3 жыл бұрын
I can say the exact same
@Dessienewshoes
@Dessienewshoes 3 жыл бұрын
Same
@LucidFL
@LucidFL 3 жыл бұрын
I am a broke collage as well
@robertstepanek2414
@robertstepanek2414 3 жыл бұрын
Dido for me too except I'm retired.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Your appreciation means a lot to us regardless. Thank you!
@henrykeresey8201
@henrykeresey8201 3 жыл бұрын
Glad Indy doesn't give out spoilers in this video. I'm really looking forward to finding out how this whole world war thing turns out.
@illjan
@illjan 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if they will get Sponsored by paradox again when the No step back DLC for Hearts of Iron 4 releases.....
@SolracNexus
@SolracNexus 3 жыл бұрын
For some reason I want a WW2 'what if?' series now
@alansewell7810
@alansewell7810 3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating discussion about no Pearl Harbor. The rubber question reminded me of a story I'd heard about the U.S. government and industry combining to make synthetic rubber. "The partnership of the government, industry, and academe expanded the U.S. synthetic rubber industry from an annual output of 231 tons of general purpose rubber in 1941 to an output of 70,000 tons a month in 1945." So we might have worked around a Japanese invasion of the rubber-producing islands. Still, it would have been a severe provocation. Would FDR have sent our Navy to Malaya to guarantee our free access to rubber and other resources? If, so the Pacific War would have begun there, even if no Pearl Harbor.
@brink8993
@brink8993 Жыл бұрын
Can we please get a chronological (with specials) playlist Indy? Like with your last project? I loved listening to the old one as a “podcast” if you will
@adamlee2550
@adamlee2550 3 жыл бұрын
This will be a valuable resource for a long time to come. We cannot thank you enough!
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
@Adam We appreciate your support!
@glenmartin2437
@glenmartin2437 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Another interesting episode. Keep up the great work.
@georgewilliams8448
@georgewilliams8448 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for another interesting and informative and well presented video. I really enjoy all the different topics that you cover in the videos that Time Ghost Army examines including ones into very rarely covered stories. As you mentioned a couple of times in today's video things don't happen in a vacuum as history is influenced by so many factors that people often don't recognize.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
@George Thank you for your support and kind words. The TimeGhost Army truly makes this series possible, along with the hard work of our dedicated team. Please stay tuned for more.
@naveenraj2008eee
@naveenraj2008eee 3 жыл бұрын
Hi indy Interesting qn and great answers.. Waiting for more q&a... Thanks for the episode..
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Hello again, Naveen! Glad to see you enjoyed this episode as well! Take care
@danielmocsny5066
@danielmocsny5066 3 жыл бұрын
It's kind of weird to hear Indy saying "uh" and "um" after watching his tightly scripted "um-free" monologues. This one had more of a press conference feel.
@guyh9992
@guyh9992 3 жыл бұрын
One brigade of the Australian 6th division garrisoned Cyprus in the second half of 1941 before its return home in 1942. The British were concerned that an Axis occupation of Cyprus would threaten Syria, the oilfields nearby in Iraq and Suez.
@gunman47
@gunman47 3 жыл бұрын
10:26 The *88th Division* of the National Revolutionary Army (NRA) is quite notable for its stiff resistance during the Battle of Shanghai in late 1937, especially during the *Defence of Sihang Warehouse* , of which the 524th Regiment participated. This defence was covered three times in film, in 1938 (800 Heroes), 1977 (Eight Hundred Heroes) and recently in 2020 (The Eight Hundred). As a sidenote, the 200th Division is worth mentioning as well, as it was the first mechanised division in the NRA and hence had armoured vehicles including Soviet T-26 and BT-5 tanks.
@charlesaguinaldo4251
@charlesaguinaldo4251 3 жыл бұрын
but unfortunately they're depleted or mostly gone after the battle of Shanghai tho
@gunman47
@gunman47 3 жыл бұрын
@@charlesaguinaldo4251 Yes, sadly quite a number of the German-trained elite divisions (including the 88th) were thrown into the Battle of Shanghai and squandered by Chiang Kai-shek with not many remaining despite being advised to conserve them for the long term instead.
@mxn1948
@mxn1948 3 жыл бұрын
@@gunman47 well he thought, their display of resistance would let the europeans know that china was not a lost cause and gain their support if not an alliance. but really he should have known, the Europeans and americans dont give a rats ass until their own interests are threatened.
@porksterbob
@porksterbob 3 жыл бұрын
@@gunman47 he specifically wasn't advised to preserve them. Von falkenhausen and the other German advisors agreed that China's best chance of obtaining a victorious battle was Shanghai. The net strategic result of the loss of these troops in the first 3 months was awful, but the idea of being able to crush the lightly defended Japanese concession quickly and gain control of 140,000 Japanese nationals was not a bad one. It almost worked.
@mikepette4422
@mikepette4422 3 жыл бұрын
Very good topic I never thought about Cyprus before thats such a unstudied part of the Mediterranean
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@MikeJones-qn1gz
@MikeJones-qn1gz 3 жыл бұрын
Keep the content coming Indy, as somebody working towards becoming a historian your so inspiring.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
I have no plans to quit!
@freetolook3727
@freetolook3727 3 жыл бұрын
@6:11 What are those black strings hanging down from the center desk drawer handle?
@diegopagura421
@diegopagura421 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@jankowalski3496
@jankowalski3496 3 жыл бұрын
It should be series "Indy: What If..." :)
@hugolorenz419
@hugolorenz419 3 жыл бұрын
well well well, another treat this week! thanks as usual
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Glad to see you're enjoying our work!
@stimublu8570
@stimublu8570 3 жыл бұрын
This is a "Da Dao" regiment of a special force of the ROC armed force. Big machete regiment, as translated, it does not actually fight with a machete, just bring one with them. However big machete is iconic so it is romanized. It's a special force forged in the civil wars of the warlords utilizing semi-automatic pistols and, to a extend, good food, so they do not suffer from night blindness and can commence night raids.
@rabihrac
@rabihrac 3 жыл бұрын
Concerning Cyprus, the island was also targeted by the Luftwaffe during the Lebanon-Syria Campaign in June-July 1941, and this is the least to say about it
@dekachin6895
@dekachin6895 3 жыл бұрын
Even if Japan struck both the UK and DEI, the US would have done nothing. The US did not go to war against Germany as Germany conquered numerous countries in Europe. There was nothing special about the DEI or Malaya that would provoke war. The American people would not change their minds merely because US-inflicted embargo on Japan meant losing access to natural rubber, especially when the US simply switched to synthetic rubber in the actual war. The Japanese attack on the US was the single greatest miscalculation of the war, and transformed what would have been certain victory for Japan, into certain defeat.
@johnrusche8256
@johnrusche8256 3 жыл бұрын
You got it correct! The NAZI's could have conquered England and America would have not gone to war. So long as everybody stayed out of the Americas and the Philippines nothing was ever going to happen in that day. I was born in 1948 and schooled in American public schools so I know what we were taught and how things were looked at at in that era. Pearl Harbor created a "BLOOD WAR" against Japan.
@sabomarov7279
@sabomarov7279 3 жыл бұрын
TimeGhost I love your content so much. I;ve been following it since my history teacher in 2015 pulled up a video from the Great War channel. I'd become a parton if I wasn't a student, but that would change once I get into the workforce properly. Keep up the good work!
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! Your appreciation means the world to us!
@sabomarov7279
@sabomarov7279 3 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo oh wow you guys actually replied! That just made my day. I'll always keep watching your content.
@Jaydee-ug7zp
@Jaydee-ug7zp 3 жыл бұрын
Another great video, thank you and please keep them comming!
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! We're glad you enjoyed it!
@porksterbob
@porksterbob 3 жыл бұрын
A secondary point not mentioned about Japan's attacks beyond the DEI was their goal of isolating China. If Japan just attacks the DEI, then the allies can still ship a ton of war material to China through Burma and Hong Kong... This was something that Japan really wanted stopped and that historically they successfully did stop. If this trade is allowed to go on unimpeded, then China gets a lot more aid from the US than historically and Japan has more trouble.
@r.g.o3879
@r.g.o3879 3 жыл бұрын
One other point as far as FDR and Churchill were concerned, their focus was always on Europe and the Germans first, even though the obvious main threat to the US came from Japan. There has always been a bit of controversy over whether Churchill alone or both he and FDR were aware through their use of the captured enigma cyphers that the Japanese were actually only days away from launching an attack in the Pacific. Its been suggested that Churchill withheld his knowledge of an impending attack to draw the US into the war. Others believe FDR himself refused to warn Kimmel and Short in Hawaii that an attack was coming for the same reason so as to convince Congress to declare war. Of course the US had no need to go to war with Germany, Hitler himself by declaring war in support of his asian ally had hoped the Japanese would attack the Russians and relieve some of the pressure on his own forces, but after the disaster that befell the Kwantung army in it's short war in 39 they had no desire to fight the reds for a second time, thus Hitler sowed the seeds of his own doom by bringing the US into the European war. It has always seemed very suspicious that FDR was so willing to leave MacArthur high and dry while concentrating on Europe. This makes the idea that the Japanese attack was already expected in order to focus on Germany. Also there were many leftists and outright communists in the US government explaining how FDR always had a Blindspot about Stalin's bloody regime that dwarfed the Nazis in numbers of dead and enslaved peoples. He was perfectly willing to just as the British and French had been to betray the poles and other Slavic nations to Stalin. The war in the Pacific could have been won in less than two years if they had concentrated on that first. Instead the dead of Pearl Harbor and Bataan were betrayed in order to aid the filthy communist scum. Better to have allowed the Germans to beat Stalin then get rid of Hitler. Our priorities were wrong and because of that eastern Europe suffered for over 50 years. We also betrayed the Chinese by letting Mao recieve vast war supplies but we gave next to nothing.to Chaing. This set up first the Korean war than Vietnam where we betrayed the french then turned around and moved in ourselves big mistake there. Sorry to go on so long, I've got a degree in History and I get all exited when I listen to one of your videos, you guys do a great job, thanks.
@brokenbridge6316
@brokenbridge6316 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting video.
@zachhibbard5147
@zachhibbard5147 3 жыл бұрын
It’s always a good morning when the best history channel uploads!
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! It's a privilege to know that our work can make your day better!
@3rdfarmer86
@3rdfarmer86 3 жыл бұрын
New idea for Time Ghost merch: “Don’t make Frankie sad!” With the TG symbol. I’d buy that lol
@hannahskipper2764
@hannahskipper2764 3 жыл бұрын
Cool tie, Indy!
@hxhuang9306
@hxhuang9306 3 жыл бұрын
One small error to correct: the name PLA, or People's Liberation Army of China did not came into use until 1946, after ww2 during the second civil war.
@mxn1948
@mxn1948 3 жыл бұрын
thats because the then red army was actually a part of the NRA.
@chris-qe4yc
@chris-qe4yc 3 жыл бұрын
Very limited reference to cyprus social and political climate at the time but extremely informative and on point. Well done Indy, good job seems you indeed spended time to read on actual historical sources.
@coleboone8826
@coleboone8826 3 жыл бұрын
Small fun fact the nationalist and other Chinese warlords did technically have a special forces known as dare to die corps but these were more or less soldiers equip with a lot of explosives and did suicide charges into Japanese lines as the Chinese really didn’t have many heavy weapons but had troops who had a very feverish hatred for the Japanese as much so as they were willing to strap a whole load of dynamite to their chest and run under a Japanese tank and exploded eventually though the Americans would eventually train Chinese into commandos and other special forces formations under the sino American cooperation organization
@ErikHare
@ErikHare 3 жыл бұрын
The American public was well aware of the horrors in China in 1941. And yet the American public was very much against getting involved in any War. I find it hard to believe that the Dutch East Indies would change that at all.
@chrisamon4551
@chrisamon4551 3 жыл бұрын
Craigie looks so awkward sitting between those two Geshia
@mervviscious
@mervviscious 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for these videos, I have always been a history buff and since my father fought in it even more so. I once made fun of the German Army, all I had to go on was Hogan's Heroes. He straightened me out and explained they were the best in the world at the time. they are really well made..
@nicolasheung441
@nicolasheung441 3 жыл бұрын
If we talk about special Chinese units, there are two which are particularly renowned amongst the Chinese masses -- one being the "dare death squad (敢死隊)", and the other "Da Dao Squad (大刀隊, da dao literally means large knife/machete)". Both aren't easy to translate. For the "Dare death squad", it usually refers to one or two particular members in a NRA Storm group who wore a specialized vest loaded with 20 or so grenades. They were to sneak to Japanese trenches, locate important targets like command or communications posts, or huge troop concentrations, and detonate their vests (in a not KZbin friendly manner). As for the Da Dao Squad, it originated in the Northwestern army under NRA, which is a elite formation scraped up by the general of the NW army. Due to their lack of equipment, this formation were selected from soldiers with prior martial arts training (greater physical capabilities than the average peasant), armed with Mauser broom handle pistols, and a Da Dao. They were referred within the army as the pistol squad and were used as assault troops, but civilians called them the Da Dao Squad, since the melee weapons on their backs were much more recognizable than their pistol holsters. This original formation managed to charge into the advancing Japanese forces and chased them back to their starting positions during the fighting in 1935 along the Great Wall, spawning "The Sword/DaDao march" song, and an increasingly common practice amongst many soldiers in virtually all anti-Japanese factions to carry the signature Da Dao. Sometimes issued alongside a rifle, sometimes with a pistol, and other times (particularly amongst partisan units) just the melee weapon. Edit: made a few corrections from autocorrect.
@stevekaczynski3793
@stevekaczynski3793 3 жыл бұрын
In the 1990s there was a da dao on display in the Imperial War Museum, as part of a display about conflicts of the 1930s like the Sino-Japanese War. Vicious-looking thing - it had blood- red cord around the hilt, perhaps a colour chosen so blood would not show up on it. It looked like the kind of thing used for beheadings, as well as combat.
@nicolasheung441
@nicolasheung441 3 жыл бұрын
@@stevekaczynski3793 the red cord is something rather often seen in more ancient Chinese melee weapons, on the tips of spears and the like, so it probably just carried over. I can't say for sure, but it probably also helped with recognizing friendly troops amidst the chaos of close quarters fighting, or just boost morale since it certainly looks nice when you swing the blade.
@LucidFL
@LucidFL 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, its unfortunate for them to omit this.
@mxn1948
@mxn1948 3 жыл бұрын
@@nicolasheung441 sword tassel is for show. the ones on spears actually have a purpose, they stop the blood from flowing down to the handle and making the spear slippery.
@stevekaczynski3793
@stevekaczynski3793 3 жыл бұрын
Chinese sometimes carried out suicide attacks on Japanese tanks by rushing at them with live grenades strapped to their chest and detonating them while touching the tank hull. Later on Japanese would do similar things to American and in 1945, Soviet tanks.
@Hollywood2021
@Hollywood2021 3 жыл бұрын
I love Out of the Foxholes! I hope this gets 10 billion views so we can have more episodes
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for supporting our content!
@Hollywood2021
@Hollywood2021 3 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo always! Thank you guys for the never ending top notch content 👍🏼
@jamescarr6324
@jamescarr6324 3 жыл бұрын
Indy.....I'm curious which of the world wars would you consider as your favorite area of interest?..My deepest gratitude and admiration for all of you and your multiple approaches of education in so many areas to get an early 20th century perspective on the events that shape us to this day..I happily admit that I get excited for each episode and since the assassination of Franz Ferdinand all the way to the battleship Missouri ( God willing) spoiler alert 😯....I will be an anxious and excited viewer
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Favorite is a bit of a weird word to use for world wars, but I was way way more interested in writing and hosting the Great War than I was WW2. So much of it was just forgotten- I mean, a lot of people think it's just a European war even today. I also thought WW2 had been covered so much already. Having said that, once I began the week by week coverage it became apparent I was very wrong on many levels, and this war is at least- if not more so- as interesting, although it is also way way darker.
@stavroskassinos7834
@stavroskassinos7834 3 жыл бұрын
My grandparents were living in Cyprus during the Second World War. I don’t really hear too much about what life was like at the time, probably cuz they were kids, and to a kid living in a mountain village the war would’ve seemed a bit far away. I did hear a story about living under the British in the 50’s about my grandpa though, where he was forced to walk across a bridge they thought was booby trapped
@snapshotinhistory1367
@snapshotinhistory1367 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks to Indy and Crew; Joined the TimeGhost Army reserves, the free one Been here since September 1941/2020, love the work, especially that new close up city map of Stalingrad First Question for Out of the Foxholes: Did Tigers ever fight in Stlingrad or were they more for in the north at this point, a few were fighting near Leningrad, if so, how they working, how my tanker bois doin' in the new fangled tanks Second Question: What is the size of the Marine Corps at this point; the boys are doing pretty good for now it seems, especially when they fight at Edison's Ridge
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
The Tiger made its first appearance in the north of the front in September 1942 near Leningrad. They do not perform well in their first deployment, mainly getting stuck in marshy ground because they weigh 55 tons, but we'll see them en masse next year.
@stevekaczynski3793
@stevekaczynski3793 3 жыл бұрын
There was an elite unit called the "Sharp Swords" among the Chinese sent to take part in the Korean War. They specialised in infiltrating UN positions to spearhead attacks. Members of the unit had fought in the Sino-Japanese War and the Chinese Civil War.
@joshjwillway1545
@joshjwillway1545 3 жыл бұрын
Is your brother Ted Kaczynski
@stevekaczynski3793
@stevekaczynski3793 3 жыл бұрын
@@joshjwillway1545 Nope. It's a fairly common Polish name. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarosław_Kaczyński
@pavelsebastianovich1450
@pavelsebastianovich1450 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you guys, u're making great content, super interesting to watch. I have one question- where are you guys located?
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Germany for filming but our team is around the world!
@eamonnprunty
@eamonnprunty 3 жыл бұрын
I love your channel guys! Keep up the great work! Once I have a stable job Ill be joining the time ghost army. One thing I ask is for you guys not to forget the bengal famine
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for the kind words! We're truly humbled by the fact that you want to support us! We will do our best to cover this war as thoroughly as we can, and we promise you won't be disappointed.
@thomascrowley9122
@thomascrowley9122 3 жыл бұрын
They need you on the history Channel
@markwheeler202
@markwheeler202 3 жыл бұрын
If Japan had invaded the dutch possions in SE Asia, surely the UK and the US would have seen the handwriting on the wall and moved to reinforce their defenses of Malaya, Singapore, Australia, and the Philippines, probably triggering Japanese attacks in response (as if they weren't planning to do this anyway). The old battleships of the US Navy that hadn't been sunk at Pearl Harbor would probably been sunk somewhere in the southwest Pacific in the ensuing battles, much like Prince of Wales and Repulse, although most likely with many more casualities.
@zeviono4562
@zeviono4562 3 жыл бұрын
I heard a few years ago that the owner of Tattersfield here in New Zealand was approached by the Japanese about 1937 to buy a massive quantity of wool, supposedly for carpets. He refused, even though it was a very lucrative deal. When the NZ government heard about it they forced the deal through, much to the consternation of Mr Tattersfield. And what was done with the wool? Japanese army uniforms...
@HWDragonborn
@HWDragonborn 3 жыл бұрын
There is no PLA during World War Two, it was just Eighth Route Army. Before 1937, Eighth Route Army is named Chinese Peasants and Workers' Red Army.
@LucidFL
@LucidFL 3 жыл бұрын
Dare-to-die corps was a special unit that existed as well.
@porksterbob
@porksterbob 3 жыл бұрын
It was the 8th route army and the new fourth army.
@catholicmilitantUSA
@catholicmilitantUSA 3 жыл бұрын
There's another point regarding the invasion of the Dutch East Indies-weren't they invaded FROM Malaya and the Philippines because they are just too far away from Japanese bases for air and paratrooper operations? They invaded the Dutch East Indies around two weeks after invading Malaya and the Philippines as far as I know...
@vitorsousa8172
@vitorsousa8172 3 жыл бұрын
Japan invasion of DEI would probably trigger an Ultimate from US requesting Japan to stop the invasion or face war with US. Japan would refuse to comply and war would have come with a few days/weeks delay. Now what I find interesting is a what if cenario where the Japan and US navies collide in the Philippines in January 1942.
@McRocket
@McRocket 11 ай бұрын
I think that was an excellent question about the Dutch East Indies. ☮
@darvennej4495
@darvennej4495 2 жыл бұрын
Yes those German Trained divisions were Chang's secret reserve ,and he used them sparingly ,or when it was to his advantage. Supposedly the furthest southern state ? I can't remember ! is where they came from,or the good % of them .Somehow there had always been a ''elitism '' of pride and efficiency that emanated from that area . The book about China ''our forgotten ally'' 37-42 tells a great story about them .Now I am curious to find out where that book went!.
@TheUstasha101
@TheUstasha101 3 жыл бұрын
On the question of Japan invading and occupying only the DEI . It appears to me that Japan had a very narrow window to achieve this ( in my opinion july- october 1940). Why you may ask? Well we know that british policy in the far east was basically dependent on the US, if the US declared war on Japan (over DEI for example) than the UK will also follow suit. However we know that the UK yielded to Japanese diplomatic pressure over the Burma road and was forced to shut it down between July and October 1940. To me this indicates that Roosevelt (nether publicly or privately ) could promise the UK support in case of war with Japan. Roosevelt's best option would be a harsh embargo. However if Japan controls the DEI and likely Vichy controlled French Indochina any embargo against it would likely fail.
@beachboy0505
@beachboy0505 3 жыл бұрын
USA 🇺🇸 before Pearl Harbour was a completely different nation. In WW1, the USA made a vast amount of 💰 money from the British and French and there was no reason, the USA couldn't squeeze the British Empire for more money. Many influential Americans wanted the USA 🇺🇸 to be an armed camp. In the lend lease, the USA acquired many territories for old dilapidated ships. When Indochina was invaded, the USA resorted to embargo. The Japanese could easily have taken the oil 🛢 fields in the East Indies. Congress might even say, we provoked the Japanese unjustly. The Japanese leadership made a very wrong decision in attacking Pearl 😕.
@simonromijn3655
@simonromijn3655 3 жыл бұрын
An interesting side-note to the discussion about the Dutch East Indies. The Dutch Prime Minister-in-exile in London in September 1940, Dirk Jan de Geer proposed a Vichy-style collaboration with the Germans. Queen Wilhelmina disagreed and dismissed de Geer. The Queen feared that a Vichy-style collaboration would result in the occupation of the Dutch East Indies by Japan.
@TheUstasha101
@TheUstasha101 3 жыл бұрын
On the question of Japan invading and occupying only the DEI . It appears to me that Japan had a very narrow window to achieve this ( in my opinion july- october 1940). Why you may ask? Well we know that british policy in the far east was basically dependent on the US, if the US declared war on Japan (over DEI for example) than the UK will also follow suit. However we know that the UK yielded to Japanese diplomatic pressure over the Burma road and was forced to shut it down between July and October 1940. To me this indicates that Roosevelt (nether publicly or privately ) could promise the UK support in case of war with Japan. Roosevelt's best option would be a harsh embargo. However if Japan controls the DEI and likely Vichy controlled French Indochina any embargo against it would likely fail.
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 3 жыл бұрын
According to Tom Ricks, Chief of Staff Marshall started planning for war on his first day in office. (September 1st, 1939. What a day to start your job as CSA)
@bcvetkov8534
@bcvetkov8534 3 жыл бұрын
3:00 Hell of a picture 😂
@forthrightgambitia1032
@forthrightgambitia1032 3 жыл бұрын
Will you ever talk about Vakhmistrov’s Circus?
@Chirality452
@Chirality452 3 жыл бұрын
The key point is that little was strategically gained by the attack on Pearl Harbor basically by change the US carriers were away at that time. What did occur was a near unanimous declaration of war on Japan and a similar commitment by the American people. If a war were declared because of the seizure of DEI by Japan on a split vote with the US to sail from Pearl to engage Japan the US support would be far less. If by chance the early naval engagement didn't go our way FDR would have generated strong domestic opposition and even anti-war movements. Also, what real use was the historical version of Japan's attack to them give the US submarine warfare against oil shipments back home. Mr. Robinson's strategy would have left the Japanese in a much better position than the historical one. As to Indie's suggestion that Malaysia was also important to Japan that might have been attacked either before or after DEI. Also, by the way Hitler's declaration of war on the US was totally stupid in the contact of the setback on the Soviet front and the failure of the Japanese to support them. In short the axis played right into our hands in a spectacular way.
@QuizmasterLaw
@QuizmasterLaw 3 жыл бұрын
We REALLY need to get a purple velvet Willy Wonka O.G. suit for Indy to properly answer what ifs with.
@jeffmcarthur5617
@jeffmcarthur5617 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Frankie! I'm sorry, but we're all out of milkshakes. I had to say it, Frankie, to make you sad. Indy showed me a picture of you sad so I had to do it. Wait, that's not a sad picture. You're laughing in that picture! Dammit, Indy lied to me! Foiled again by Indy!
@keithplymale2374
@keithplymale2374 3 жыл бұрын
In 1941 the USA sent a lot of war material to the Philippines. In fact the B-17's that flew into the Pearl Harbor attack where on the way there. And Germany had already been determined to be the most dangerous of the Axis powers. So I think the biggest question is what if the Japanese had just taken the Dutch East Indies in mid-late 1941 then spent time to get the oil fields back into use. Then in mid-late 1942 gone for Malaya. The British most likely would have been no more prepared in mid-late 1942 than they were in late 1941. I just don't see the USA of 1941/42 without a Pearl Harbor getting into the war at that point. The country would have geared up and mobilized like it did. Without the increased losses from the historical first year the Japanese would have continued to build more as well. it would certainly be something interesting to work out on a good gaming platform,
@HWDragonborn
@HWDragonborn 3 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention about NRA's 200th Division, this is China's first mechanized division in the war
@porksterbob
@porksterbob 3 жыл бұрын
They should have mentioned them not for the mechanization but for the quality. According to Japan, they were the best allied forces opposing them in Burma.
@bcompany650
@bcompany650 3 жыл бұрын
beside german train troops chinese muslims troops from Ma clique are also rate as elite as german train divisions as well.
@christopherwang4392
@christopherwang4392 3 жыл бұрын
Even if the United States and Imperial Japan do not go to war on December 7, 1941, the two countries could still go to war with each other at a much later date for different reasons.
@simonromijn3655
@simonromijn3655 3 жыл бұрын
In respect the to Dutch East Indies (DEI), I believe one of the strategic 'what-if' possibilities in the 1930s would have been a Japanese encouraged nationalist insurrection. There would have been little interest on the part of the US to intervene because the US favoured decolonisation. If an insurrection had been successful the Japanese might have indirectly controlled access to DEI resources.
@martinguandjienchan7525
@martinguandjienchan7525 3 жыл бұрын
Ethnic Korean communist partisans from Manchuria were elite units of Mao's communist forces, as they had years of experience fighting the Japanese.
@Dessienewshoes
@Dessienewshoes 3 жыл бұрын
My fave channel ❤
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! We're happy to hear that!
@CrasusC
@CrasusC 3 жыл бұрын
I need to point out a mistake. At 9:10, the People's Liberation Army was not "created" until 1947. Back in 1942, the armed wing of the CCP were officially part of the National Revolutionary Army of Kuomingtang, but under communist direct control as part of the Second United Front. Their official names were 8th Route Army and New Fourth Army. This is in no way a criticism on quality of research on Andy and his team. I have learnt so much since I started watching the WWI and WWII channels, and I still hunger for more.
@CrasusC
@CrasusC 3 жыл бұрын
Even though the communists and Kuomintang were in an alliance against Japan, there was a lot of tension and even outright open hostility, such as the New Fourth Army Incident, which resulted in the KMT ejecting New Fourth Army from its Order of Battle and ordering of its disbandment.
@stevekaczynski3793
@stevekaczynski3793 3 жыл бұрын
During the war, as a unity gesture Communist troops wore the Kuomintang insignia of a white star or sun emblem on a dark blue background. They reverted to wearing red stars when the war ended and a new war was about to begin, this time with the Kuomintang.
@Davitofrito
@Davitofrito Жыл бұрын
Nope. FDR and the War Department already believed that Japan was going to attack the Dutch east indies and probably the UK as well. Even in December, multiple plans existed for what statements would be put out. FDR was still planning or at least wanted to try to get a meeting with either the Emperor or Tojo, around early 1942 off the coast of Alaska. This followed months of hot then cold negotiations that Japan was amenable to, which involved exiting china. Miscommunications and misconceptions by both sides caused problems but none more so than Secretary Hull who convinced FDR japan wasn't serious and also put forth demands for the exiting of ALL of china which the japanese took to mean Manchuria. America did NOT want war. Not in the pacific and not in Europe. If Japan takes the Dutch East Indies and Malaya, the US is still a massive economic power and has valuable resources like Steel that Japan would want. So I could see a scenario where the US continues negotiations to get Japan to withdraw from China, ends the economic embargo and both sides trade with one another while Japan just like in OTL ensures convoys to the Soviet union from the US carrying lend lease, still arrive safely. Much to the anger of Hitler who's Uboats are being sunk by american destroyers in 1941 without a declaration of war.
@QUISLINGG
@QUISLINGG 3 жыл бұрын
The Butterfly 🦋 Effect
@jaygangadia7010
@jaygangadia7010 3 жыл бұрын
Hi ww2 team,please make a video on major ship sinking which includes all warships and merchant ships of both factions
@jonbaxter2254
@jonbaxter2254 3 жыл бұрын
The little cartoon with Indy's voice needs to be a thing
@sergegirard864
@sergegirard864 3 жыл бұрын
You wanna have fun? Ask Indie « What if we had red wine instead of beer tonight » and watch him get worked out into a fit!
@machintelligence
@machintelligence 3 жыл бұрын
I suspect that Japan believed that if they "eased into" a war with the USA, they would lose. Wars of attrition are hard on the smaller combatant. A quick knockout punch probably looked like the better alternative. Unfortunately for them, that didn't work either.
@steverogers8163
@steverogers8163 3 жыл бұрын
That was Yamamoto's view. A long term war with the US was unwinnable. So his only option was to hope he could land some sort of KO with his first few punches. Note he didn't think he could conquer the US, just make the war undesirable enough that they would cut their loses and leave the western pacific. That said it was "his" personal view. The Japanese Army seems to have been completely delusional by this point, as they were already engaged in a war of attrition with China and now thought starting a 2nd war with the US was a good solution.
@mxn1948
@mxn1948 3 жыл бұрын
@@steverogers8163 the IJA didn't want war with the us, they wanted war with the soviets. it was the IJN that wanted war with the us and the resources of those european colonies. i think both branches are delusional, since they couldn't fight a war of attrition against the us and had no ability to conquer the us either, and the army was already bleeding dry in the meat grinder that was the chinese theater of WW2, an attack on the soviets would net them, the then resources-less siberia at best. any further push is near impossible due to the extreme distance, lack of infrastructure, terrain, weather and soviet counter attacks, the after war situation might be real bad for japan since by then the soviets would be out for blood like how they dealt with the germans and the soviets would have demanded at least half occupation of japan.
@Telamon8
@Telamon8 3 жыл бұрын
(It's not really a foxhole question, just more of a general question, in general) Are you going to do a biographic special for that one guy from US Army 1st ID that appears in basically every D-Day documentary, the one that dies during the rush up the beachhead? I feel like the footage of his death is possibly one of the most widely-seen of anyone during WWII, and it feels kind of awkward to know basically nothing about the poor man. Also, apparently there's a pretty long-standing search going on, on another forum, to find out who he is, and it'd be cool to see more contribution to that effort. Ps. sorry, Frankie
@mervviscious
@mervviscious 3 жыл бұрын
this has nothing to do with this except for the Battle of the Coral Sea thing. My father was on the ship The USS Phelps. His ship was part of the Lexington Battle Group. Dad never wanted to ever tell me anything besides saying that his ship was never in the thick of the war and was always in the backwater of the war. Well after a lot of sleuthing I found out the battles he was in. The USS Phelps is the ship that torpedoed the Lady Lex when she was in danger of falling into the hands of the Japanese, you don't hear that fact on any history documentary I have watched and only one youtube video (I guess I can understand that, but everyone was off and it needed to be done). His ship was also part of the Ring of Steel placed fifty miles out (I could be wrong about the distance, but that is what I remember),. The USS Phelps was hit by one of first Kamikaze (I did read this but again, I wasn't there so) and he was thrown down a flight of stairs and crushed a couple of disk in his lower back. A lot of what I put together was just remembering little things he had said and from his sister after he had passed. He was a great man. He was just a quiet Iowa farm boy when he left and with all the hell they went through to win the war I'm surprised he remained that way. He has always been my hero and always will be.
@WorldWarTwo
@WorldWarTwo 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to share your father's story with us. We deeply appreciate it and hope you continue to enjoy our content.
@Grafknar
@Grafknar 3 жыл бұрын
4:55 - Answer is NO. There is simply no logical course to see US declaring war on Japan without a direct provocation. We didn't declare war on Germany WHILE our destroyers were being sunk in the Battle of the Atlantic. Germany declared war on the US first. The most we would have done would be something similar (economic aid; naval escort, etc) in the Pacific (mainly for China & Australia) we were doing to help Britain in the Atlantic.
@armija
@armija 3 жыл бұрын
Ure completely wrong...
@danielmocsny5066
@danielmocsny5066 3 жыл бұрын
"There is simply no logical course to see US declaring war on Japan without a direct provocation. We didn't declare war on Germany WHILE our destroyers were being sunk in the Battle of the Atlantic." Sure, because we weren't ready for war in 1941. But in a series of Congressional acts, the USA was getting ready, with steadily increasing military budgets. As part of the USA's Two-Ocean Navy Act from 1940, there were already eleven new Essex-class aircraft carriers on order (five were under construction) when Japan attacked in December, 1941. The USA was also building new battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines, airplanes, etc. Had Japan ignored the USA while conquering other territories, it would have faced the possibility of an overwhelmingy powerful US fleet and air force in the Philippines in another year or two, menacing the sea lanes between Japan and the resource-rich territories. That's what ended up happening eventually anyway, but the rebuilt US forces had to fight their way in from farther back. A military buildup is *itself* a provocation. By committing to a massive rearmament program, which was already well underway before the Pearl Harbor attack, the USA made itself less likely to keep sitting back while its destroyers were getting sunk. Countries don't remain neutral when they think they can win. Had the US entry into the war been delayed well into 1942 or even 1943, there would have been more US warships and warplanes out patrolling, multiplying the possibilities for a "provocation." Also recall that the USA held Guam while Japan held the neighboring Mariana islands of Saipan, Tinian, and Rota. How long could the two hostile powers have gone on fortifying in such close proximity before one side or the other decided it needed to eliminate the threat on its doorstep? It's hard to picture a scenario in which the USA stays out of the war, given the expansionism of Germany and Japan, and the massive US military buildup in response to the threat. (Expansionist powers tend to keep expanding until they get stopped by force.) All that was needed was domestic political support in the USA, which Japan helpfully provided by bombing Pearl Harbor. If Japan had tried to ignore the USA, it would have had more trouble ignoring Australia. Given the racism of the time on all sides, it's hard to imagine that the then mostly-white America would have sat back and calmly watched an Asian power invading mostly-white Australia. As it happened, the USA and Australia formed a strong working relationship in 1942 given that overstretched Britain couldn't do much to help Australia defend itself from the encroaching Japanese.
@armija
@armija 3 жыл бұрын
@@danielmocsny5066 Exactly, US was on war path and there was not even the slightest chance of them staying out of it. Japan had choice only of trying to land an devastating opening blow or face more prepared and ready USA couple of months later, they took first option. As of Germany US was sending its air forces to UK, supplying UK with all kinds of weapons and supplies and preparing for war there too, German oficial declaration of war changed probably nothing, US entered in force by spring 1942 and not much would change if that declaration did not happen. Declaration itself only allowed Germans campaign of unrestricted merchant shipping hunt off the east coast.
@beachboy0505
@beachboy0505 3 жыл бұрын
There was always a small rumour that the Americans possessed a 'rubber plantation' in Liberia which was even more productive than Malaya.
@billd.iniowa2263
@billd.iniowa2263 3 жыл бұрын
Some very enlightened questions. At least they werent about your tie. lol
@burimfazliu3102
@burimfazliu3102 3 жыл бұрын
Honestly for the Pearl Harbor question I feel like Britain would technically have to get involved, because the Netherlands are still kind of fighting with them. Also because the East Indies could be used to attack Australia, Burma, India and so forth.
@TheUstasha101
@TheUstasha101 3 жыл бұрын
On the question of Japan invading and occupying only the DEI . It appears to me that Japan had a very narrow window to achieve this ( in my opinion july- october 1940). Why you may ask? Well we know that british policy in the far east was basically dependent on the US, if the US declared war on Japan (over DEI for example) than the UK will also follow suit. However we know that the UK yielded to Japanese diplomatic pressure over the Burma road and was forced to shut it down between July and October 1940. To me this indicates that Roosevelt (nether publicly or privately ) could promise the UK support in case of war with Japan. Roosevelt's best option would be a harsh embargo. However if Japan controls the DEI and likely Vichy controlled French Indochina any embargo against it would likely fail.
@notidentifieduser6533
@notidentifieduser6533 3 жыл бұрын
Μan i feel we don't get this series enough
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