What If Rhaenys Was The Queen Of Westeros? (House Of The Dragon)

[@didacfg8811]

Jahaerys made the mistake of letting the lords think that they could decide who inherits the throne

[@truetory6231]

It wasn't a mistake, it prevented war and preserved the peace. Viserys was the one who made the mistake of dismissing this precedent. Had he followed in Jaehaerys footstep, the realm would have been better off.

[@thebighoney9034]

@@truetory6231 yeah it's pretty hypocritical for him to dismiss the precedent that literally gave him the throne prior. Rules for thee but not for me moment.

[@yt_geezuz785]

Last time a Targaryen ignored the lords was when Maegor couped his own nephew. Maegor had to put down rebellions after rebellions. Maegor I is Jahaerys I's uncle.

[@joaoferreira3007]

Actually, the lords choosing Rhaenys isn't the lords choosing absolute primogeniture, its the lords choosing Andal tradition, daughters over uncles, so rhaenys heir shall probably be Laenor, and i dont think oldtown or otto would have thar much problem with that(especially if they get to marry alicent and laenor...), unless rhaenys herself change the laws, that i can see oldtown and other noble houses creating problems.

[@animejerk05]

Rhaenys isn’t stupid enough to try changing the succession crisis ruling that you inherited under. That’s Viserys level incompetence

[@tinahs8269]

I agree. I always wondered why her already having a male heir didn't count for more.

[@jolenamalade]

i came here for this exact comment! Queen Victoria out ranked her uncles but the princess royal her eldest daughter did not outrank her younger brother King Edward vii and its apparent that the show and the books follow that same custom

[@Kelly-vm9su]

Zs a wl wa said the best 👌 👍 😍 🥰 ☺ 💖 👌 👍 😍 🥰 ☺ 💖 👌 👍 😍 😅😅😅😅😅🎉😅🎉😅🎉😅🎉😅🎉 12:36 12:38 12:40 12:42 12:42 12:44 12:44 12:44

[@Kelly-vm9su]

12:58 12:58 12:58 13:00 13:02 13:02 13:02 13:02 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcUkzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcUkzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcqcttps://kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcUttps://kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcUckzbin.info/www/bejne/jXu3pKR6orWUlcU&t=0s

[@sharp52092]

If this happened perhaps Westeros could have done something like the United Kingdom previously practiced. They could have practiced male primogeniture, where sons were preferred, but daughters could still inherit if there were no sons. I don't see Westeros going full primogeniture, where the gender of the eldest child and heir doesn't matter.

[@punkthatiscyber9091]

'Never' is a strong word. I could see a slow transition. Might take a handful of generations. But especially if you have enough queens who end up taking the throne regardless

[@thedemonhater7748]

That’s just standard andal succession funnily enough.

[@truetory6231]

Westeros had different succession rules for lords and kings. This was the rule for all the kingdoms except Dorne. For lords, the succession law was similar to what the UK did prior to 2011. However for Royal succession, Westeros did something similar to former French monarchy, a male only succession line

[@elinakangas571]

In this scenario... I assume Leonor Velaryon would not have any children. I assume Lena Velaryon would still marry Prince Daemon and have 2 daughters. This would be 3 generations of ruling queens. This would be quite a lot for Westeros.

[@hilaryhongkong]

The same in England which inspired this to begin with, then. Lady Jane Grey (the 9-day queen), Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, then handing the throne over to the Scottish king.

[@dyscalculic]

I'd like to see the timeline where if some King of Westeros just had a royal decree of, "A Lord/Lady may choose a natural born heir if they wish" otherwise the old rule applies.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

I feel like that would still cause problems.

[@hilaryhongkong]

That'd be similar to China, specifically the Manchurian Empire.

[@carastone3473]

According to Fire & Blood, Laena is one year older than Laenor; they’re not twins.

[@browniebear]

He was saying that he thinks they're twins in the show. He said that Laena is the older one in F&B

[@Laramaria2]

Rhaenys would have been a great Queen!

[@browniebear]

Book Rhaenys yes. Show Rhaenys would have been between problematic & promising so overall okay.

[@Laramaria2]

@@browniebear fair enough. Books Rhaenys is a 10/10!

[@seth_fitzgerald]

I find it very curious and intriguing that all of Westeros, except Dorne. They prefer agnatic and male primogeniture but in Dorne, they have absolute primogeniture, so that has always been the conflict throughout Westeros. Males are always preferred, but when the Dance of the Dragons was concluded, there were more women in power than men because the war took away all male claimants. Women held the power temporarily until their sons were born.

[@SCordova19]

I wonder what would have happened if Visarys and Rhaynes had gotten married rather then who they each actually ended up with (Aemma and Corlys)

[@notyourproblem474]

I think they could've balanced each other, they would've been great rulers. Viserys was very jovial, and liked by his lords and people but weak and indecisive. While Rhaenys has more of a spine than him, but she's still delicate about it without coming off as a bully. So, she is less easy to manipulate, and wiser. Besides she has a dragon, which would strengthen the throne and any threat Daemon could pose (it was a massive oversight that Viserys never claimed another dragon or that Aemma didn't claim one when she became queen). You also no longer have the problem of another house having dragons (I still don't understand why Jahaerys allowed a dragon rider to marry outside the family, it's like gifting a nuclear weapon, and not just any dragon but one that can lay eggs as Seasmoke comes from Meleys). Plus you reunite both claims and then you no longer need a Great Council. So many problems would have been fixed if the right marriages had been made, instead of whatever bullshit Alysanne (mostly) and Jahaeris did, in this aspect they failed so many times.

[@SCordova19]

@@notyourproblem474 I agree, I also just don’t think Daemon would ever go against his brother…he loved Visarys he only ever ‘acted out’ to gain his brother’s attention. also wheb there was a question over who would be king/queen Aemon or Daenerys, Jaheras (sorry I’m horrible at spelling these names!) wanted the two eldest siblings to be married-which would have settled the issue-even if it didn’t give his wife what she wanted. That was the plan prior to her untimely death. It’s weird that he didn’t marry them to each other originally because they each had strong claims and were one time heirs.

[@notyourproblem474]

@@SCordova19 I don't think Daemon would have done that either, but he was perceived as a threat nonetheless, so having at least one dragon rider ruler would have calmed those who thought like this. And it would be a power boost anyway. I think is very telling that the man that caused the death of dragons with his indecision, had no dragon at all. Kinda foreshadowing future targaryen kings.

[@tanoshiofm3852]

There is one thing. Gender does matter. In this scenario, Rhaenys becomes Queen due to Andal Law. The effect would be that the Andal law is more respected. The line of succession would be sons, then daughters, then brothers, then sisters. I don't think it would have a lot of difference.

[@ovp3606]

Exactly Laenor would be Prince of Dragonstone as Rhaenys’s eldest son and would probably marry Rhaenyra to unite their claims. Laena would be Lady of the Tides.

[@bizarreconvos]

What if Viserys and Aemma's Children never died in their birth? Would the Children cause so much ruckus in the seven Kingdoms!? Like Jaehaerys own children?

[@mandoslore]

What-if Rhaenys and Viserys were wed? Aemon (Rhaenys's dad) didn't like Corlys a lot in fire & blood, so I could see him choosing someone else for his daughter to marry. You would have Aemon and Baelon's lines united which could make up for the great council of 92 AC (I am aware that it most likely didn't happen in the show). Rhaenys doesn't become Queen but she becomes Queen Consort. How much would things change? If Rhaenyra is still born, would Rhaenys advocate for her claim to the IT?

[@mdguy35]

Great video. I’m happy with the outcome, especially since Viserys finally gets to play with his Legos.

[@kdjr3062]

If he isn’t king who know would he even like his valeryian marble set

[@emmaofthearbor]

I think rhaenys could implement the doctrine of targ exceptionalism to say that just her family could play by these rules of total primogeniture

[@JMTgpro]

Rhaenys' true result as queen is a Baratheon-Targaryen-Velaryons hegemony for generations. If Rhaenys is as open as Viserys in letting everyone who can have dragons (Jaehaerys, for example, didn't let all of his children have them), I see a timeline where after three generations, there would be Three Dragon Houses: Targaryen: Continuing through Laenor... Velaryon: Continued by whoever inherits Driftmark (probably Laena or any other child). Baratheon: With Rhaenys having such a strong connection to the House, and the history of the House, I don't doubt, not for a second, that it's possible that Rhaenys' next heir or daughter will be betrothed to a Baratheon heir. I would see that triad of Houses as the main ones and after Rhaenys, by marriage and alliances, I would see them dancing with the Iron Throne. The main problem with Rhaenys' reign is Laenor. In the original line he was unable to have heirs of his own for the Iron Throne, in this one, I doubt that will change. So, in the same way, even if he is an heir, there is no one to inherit him, apart from his sister. So, either Rhaenys has more children or the only heir will ultimately be Laena. But, in this line I see Rhaenys capable of marrying Laena to Borros Baratheon. By history and tradition (the Baratheons were his main allies in the vote). Laenor, to be honest, the union with Rhaenyra is such an obvious and good decision with Rhaenys as Queen that, I say it will happen as well, which tells me, that the lack of 'passion'... We may have bastards again. But I doubt Rhaenyra will have such indulgence with it this time. Unless Laenor lives longer and intercedes strongly, saying that they are his sons and heirs. Anyway, Rhaenys may be a strong Queen, but if her children aren't careful, there may be an inheritance war behind her between Laenor's bastard sons and his daughter's sons, with access to the Velaryon fleet, Dragoons, and the Baratheons.

[@siewmj1]

They should also include celtigar. The problem is dragon power is too heavily concentrated on the Targaryen

[@finikama]

The happiest person in this scenario is Corlys. Dude will kill himself with joy 😂. People tend to forget that Corlys was far more ambitious than Otto Hightower, he just wasn't lucky like Otto.

[@kahare9565]

Corlys actually plays himself in the show, pushing Laena forward before she’s old enough to be an appealing match on any level. Alicent is only about 3 years older than her in the show (vs 6 in the book), and even Otto didn’t seem like he wanted the marriage question to come up NOW.

[@kleailia6332]

What if Aegon succeed in his escape after the death of Viserys?

[@lasloapollo4312]

Than Aemond takes his place or becomes regent with Helaena for Aegons eldest son.

[@browniebear]

​@@lasloapollo4312Or Aemond takes the throne given that he's an adult and can immediately produce heirs which is more stable for the realm. It did happen later in the timeline where the younger son of the king inherited instead of the King's grandson via his elder son (Aegon V ascended over Maegor, the son of his elder brother Aerion).

[@justinehelene4831]

Choosing Rhaenys would be male preference primogeniture moreso than absolutele primogenuture. Westerosi/Andal tradition wouldn't have allowed Jahaerys to ever choose Baelon as heir over Rhaenys as she was daughter of the heir. But because he did do this it created a complicated succession instead of what would have been straightforward for Andal Westerosi. It doesn't mean absolute to vote for Rhaenys it just follows the male preference law. Ex. Bran is heir after Robb but if Robb even just has a daughter she is heir over Bran now. The line now follows Robb's offspring and not Ned's according to westerosi law. Just in case that was confusing to anyone

[@MadManManderly]

In the main book, this happens with Alys Karstark inheriting from Harrion (her brother ) instead of Arnolf (I believe Jon says something to this effect) and Cersei becomes Lady of Casterly Rock instead of Kevan after Tywin dies (Kevan tries to use this to strip her of the regency and said her away)

[@lgp5116]

How about a video where instead of a boy being born in episode 1 Aemma gives birth to a girl (Visenya) Aemma she still passes, but would the king still remarry right away? How would the dance of the dragon's be different if it was the Dragon sisters vs the Hightower brothers? Would Visenya side with her sister for the crown or would she be by her husband (Aegon II) side? Would the green kids even be alive now that the king has two heirs?

[@Thepiedpiper-dl8np]

Are your what if’s only for house of the dragon? I loved to see some Robert’s rebellion what ifs

[@timoteimiclaus4996]

Exactly.Such older sister couldn't complain about Rhaenys being Queen while their younger brothers were lords and not them.The Tradition in Westeros was that,in case of the lack of sons,a lord or king's daughter comes before his brother.Rhaenys was the only child of King Jaehaerys's eldest son,Prince Aemon so the argument was the she had a better claim than her uncle,Prince Baelon or his son Viserys.If Prince Aemon had a son,Rhaenys would never be considered for the Iron Throne.There would have been no Great Council of Harrenhall,as a son of Prince Aemon,would be the most senior male-line grandson of the King would seemlessly succeed his grandsire upon the Iron Throne.Also,in the books,it wasn't even Rhaenys who competed against Viserys,but her son,Laenor.

[@hilaryhongkong]

The universe is heavily inspired by English history (Rharnys failing to ascend to the throne is said to echo Empress Matilda's path), so with that in mind, there are some issues with this video: 1. She's likely actually be the *Prince* of Dragonstone still. Much like how Queen Elizbath was the *Duke* of Lancaster, the *Duke* of Normandy, and the *Lord* of Mann. 2. Just because she's made queen, doesn't mean gender no longer matters. Until Queen Elizabeth's reign, males were still inheriting the throne in favour of an older sister. 3. There's no issue with Driftmark and the Iron throne being held by the same person. Titles get merged with the crown all the time. That's exactly just like how King Charles is also the Duke of Lancaster. And the monarch could reassign the title as well, just like how the Duke of York was merged with the crown with King George ascending to the throne after Edward VIII's abdication, and subsequent given to Prince Andrew, as well as the Duke of Edinburgh merged with the crown when King Charles became king (he was the Duke of Edinburgh also when Prince Philip died), and the title has now been granted to Prince Edward. Since Driftmark was a part of Westoros anyway, there's 0 issue with this. In the case of different countries, it still had happened, such as how Spain got united, how the UK became the UK after a long time, how Spain and Portugal were together at one point, and so on. This was extremely common as royals intermarried a lot within Europe. 4. There being a queen never meant the whole legal system had to change. There was no issue arising from Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth being queens. The legal system did change little by little afterwards, but it passed through Queen Mary I, Queen Ann, Queen Victoria, and Queen Elizabeth II for the whole society to really change. Even so, in the UK today, not all lordships could be inherited by a woman when a male heir, no matter how remote, could be found. So arguably 500 years later having a female monarch still didn't bring the drastic change you mentioned in the video.

[@jjosifovic]

Rhaenys my favorite female Targaryen show wise and easily the best choice to rule the seven kingdoms compared to Rhaenyra and Aegon

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Given the ratio of people supporting Rhaenys and Viserys, I highly doubt the lords of Westeros would ever choose her to be queen. The only way aI see this happening would be if Jahaerys himself chose her to be heir.

[@martinspacil5100]

What if Daemon eas Viserys sucesor ( Viserys never married after Aemas dead)

[@carastone3473]

Daemon WAS considered his heir at one time. He set Daemon aside when he finally admitted to himself that daemon would be a terrible king.

[@maikenlsten]

The one true queen.

[@cloverazar5315]

11:04 Rhaenys has a dragon and Dragonstone is literally a rock-skip across the Blackwater Bay. Girl could commute and get to King’s Landing before her coffee got cold 😂

[@zanderC5953]

Excellent point about male vs female inheritance disputes and why patriarchal systems of inheritance continued well into the 20th century in our world. It again comes down to money and resource control.

[@diegonatan6301]

7:40 WTF, what jump is that? Rhaenys was descendant of the older line, that doesn't make it the succession egalitarian it makes women elligible and put the child of an older brother ahead of a younger brother and his children, but doesn't put men and women on equal footing, brothers would still be ahead of sisters, just like in the books Sansa is behind Rickon.

[@VersieKilgannon]

God, when you recited all of Rhaenys' titles as queen, I honestly teared up a little... Rhaenys is one of my favorite characters in the show

[@VANIT_E]

I keep hearing "President" lol

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

This did not go the way I expected, but it was awesome!

[@martinspacil5100]

What if Viserys maried Rhaenys and Corlys matried Aemma

[@hidingtk2860]

The mark was seen on Mae's forehead in episode one. That's how Indara knew who she was before she died.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Otto and Daemon becomes bffs lol.

[@kyliekelly6248]

Imagine Otto and Aemon teaming up to fight Rhaenys and Corlys!

[@literairydragonfly]

Okay your video seems to be based on a faulty premise. Its not turning to absolute primogeniture. Its actually enforcing male preference, women already can inherit. Basically passing over Rhaenys imposed agnatic succession

[@Chubbasaurus]

I find it interesting that HOTD starts with the monarch being chosen by a more democratic process, and GoT ends with the same. I wonder what would have happened if Wetseros had just... kept up that system. The Lords of the Realm, both Paramount and Vassal, selecting a ruler from a pool of petitioning candidates.

[@WendyKassoma]

Dude give me the part two of what if the Strong’s were actually Velaryons?😊

[@bushmaster195]

Just looked at the new Posters they put on Twitter for Season 2 and they still have Aegon in the background behind Alicent like isn't this Aegon vs Rhaenyra for the throne or am I missing something?

[@paxmundiabolition]

In the political sense yes but in terms of who the fight is really about he is a relative pawn as an offspring of Alicent and Rhaenyras conflict spurred on by House Hightower and Daemon. This season he is just starting as ruler so the beginning of the war will likely focus more on how Alicent and Rhaenyra are more at war eachother then woth Aegon because he would NOT be king without his mother and grandfathers coup. The next seasons though as the war gets darker and bloodier he will eventually be more of a centerpiece for sure especially after certain characters who have played a pivotal role in preparing the war or in trying to stop it die in the war. Season 2 will likely be 129 AC and mabye some of the big early battles whole season 3 will be the later more bloodier part when there are less and less Targaryens and Hightowers left so naturally he will gain more centerpiece and screen time

[@madambutterfly1997]

Their dragons change gender well when the circumstances demanded, would it be so wrong if the Targaryens had their line of succession follow suit and possess mirroring flexibility

[@dellavonta187]

Bro come own we need part 2 of what if she killed the greens I need daerons revenge

[@Dr.SwanPHD_MD_Esquire_the3rd]

It bothers me how in HotD they call the king/queen the king of the Rhoynar even though Dorne isnt part of the kingdom yet…

[@maishaahmed915]

Kings in real life also did the same thing. The kings of England called themselves king of France until the French Revolution.

[@jolenamalade]

Laena would not have outranked her brother regardless of age just because a woman could inherit doesn’t mean male preference is thrown out the table. maybe with King Viserys i but certainly not under king jaehaerys i

[@chichi_ix]

What if Daemon lives after the battle of the Godseye??

[@geekemedia]

What if tyrian and sansa stayed married or "consemated" their marriage

[@LadyCheshire95]

Laena would not be the heir after her mother. They would still take a son over a daughter. Rhenys was a candidate because she was the eldest princes only child had her father had a son their wouldnt even be a succession question

[@anbuookami13]

As it should be. One of the better Targaryens. Can't wait for se02ep4

[@chrisanderson7258]

Unfortunately, that bar isn't that high. She did just kill a lot of people in the dragonpit just to look badass in the show, at least.

[@amorojaz27]

Given the incident in the Dragon pit, I don't think she'd make such a great queen.

[@displacerkatsidhe]

Firstly, the whole thing was messy, and Jahaerys was insecure about his own claim since he snatched the throne from his nieces. For the rest of Westeros, minus Dorne, Inheritence doesn't exclude women, it's just men come first, and if there are no sons, then daughters. THEN after daughters, the brothers of the current lord. It's called Male Preference Primogeniture. The Targaryens screwed it all up because again, Jahaerys is insecure about his own claim. His neices technically out-rank him for the throne until one takes vows, and the other dies. So He is effectively forcing a Male ONLY primogeniture. Which ALWAYS CAUSES PROBLEMS. Regardless, because GRRM had to make it to the pivotal plot points, Jahaerys had to make stupid decisions. Instead of having the heir to his eldest child stay married within the family and stop potential cadet branches fighting, he should have had Rhaenys and Viserys marry eachother. She's 3 years older than Viserys so she wouldn't have been getting bedded at 13 and having so much trouble with childbirth.... Just saying....

[@liketheshowmoesha700]

Also it would’ve been a long line of women as queens because on of leanas daughters had 6 daughters🤭

[@adeoluwaadebayo9959]

Bro no conflict

[@MHam-lm2kx]

Today I am wat hang it on 9th July after watching season 2 ep 3 of hotd where rhaneys died I wanted her to be queen

[@Valerianqelbri]

The dude made a whole video about succession laws and traditions in Westeros and didn’t bother researching Westerosi succession laws and tradition before making it🥱👎

[@SpongeWatches]

I feel like you missed on this one because a lot of noble houses are already inherited by daughters over cousins and uncles when there are no sons. Rhaenys doesn’t have any brothers so it’s a pretty simple decision to give her the throne over her cousins. Rhaenys is also not much of a feminist and absolutely would not be dumb enough to proclaim that women should inherit equally to men throughout the realm. That’s super out of character.

[@madambutterfly1997]

The queen who should’ve been

[@deankirkby8047]

I think they’d move the heirs title to Prince of Driftmark, with Vissy, Aema and Daemon becoming House Targaryen of Dragon stone.

[@PzY-Reviews]

Corlos valertion dies ser otto hightower shows uo wearing a spedo to the small council on some go comfort the king and wear your mothers dress vibes

[@amaracrow0501]

I'm relatively positive that in the book Laenore and Laena were twins and he was the elder. As you mentioned Rhaenys was never put before the great counsel, it was basically down to Viserys and Laenore. Also at that time, Daemon was missing from the counsel (notice his absence in the show during the win for his brother)because he had amassed soldiers to fight for his brother if he had not won. I don't think even he would be so presumptuous to pull a move amassing a army to pull a que without his brothers approval.

[@chrisanderson7258]

They're not twins in the books. Laena was actually the eldest, and Laenor was the youngest. They switched it up in the show

[@notyourproblem474]

Laena was born in 92 AC, and Laenor in 95 AC

[@carastone3473]

In Fire & Blood, they’re not twins; she’s one year older than him.

[@tobyorcutt8500]

Describing Raineys, as “decisive“ is Ludacris. If you were actually decisive, she would have torched the usurper in the dragon pit instead of just flying off 🤷

[@boo2020]

O⁹9998 17:29

[@learogers2881]

Everyone likes to forget, 2 women had sat the Iron Throne, and ruled as his equals their entire lives. Both Rhaenys and Visenya sat and ruled with just as much authority as Aegon commanded. If Visenya was really the power hungry monster the histories portrayed as she had the power to take the Iron Throne for herself. Both by right of conquest because she was as much a part of the conquest as her siblings, and she had as much right to rule as Queen until her death. Then allowed both Aenys and Maegor more time to grown into men, while securing the reign and sucession of her heirs. The only person who could have challenged her would have been Maegor, but only if she still brought him back to claim Balerion. Just saying, all the histories state both queens ruled with the full trust and support of their brother/husband.