What If The Doctor's Evil Incarnation Returned?

[@HarboWholmes]

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[@CashelOConnolly]

People aren’t getting notifications when you upload a new video 😳🔷🔷🔷🔷✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻

[@Comicbroe405]

Wtf that's so hype

[@timrob12]

Crazy idea: Bring back the Valeyard played by Christopher Eccleston and convince him by using his real-life anger at the BBC in the preformance and finally let go of all the bottled up rage inside.

[@Doomshroom00]

That would be a disaster

[@timrob12]

@@Doomshroom00 Or the greatest thing ever.

[@lazyspade1559]

@@Doomshroom00Nono I think it’d be genius

[@daedalus6433]

@@Doomshroom00Agreed, retcon everything after Series 10 instead, sack RTD and the other producers, and let Eccleston be the 13th Doctor

[@julesrezidor3807]

​I liked the 60th specials, though it'd be goofy for eccleston to regenerate back into tennant again so i understand ​@@daedalus6433

[@bodhithemetahuman2531]

I always thought the Bigeneration would have been a perfect way to introduce a version of The Doctor who would eventually become The Valeyard.

[@ThomasstevenSlater]

It was actually trigeneration with all the evil in the doctor turned into a seperate being, there wasn't that much evil so it was very small.

[@ImmortalAbsol]

Ganger Eleven could become the Valeyard. Fourteen post-bigeneration could become the Curator.

[@donteherriott5509]

Not like considering the ganger exploded into a puddle of goop.

[@ThomasstevenSlater]

@@donteherriott5509 they can make another, or the goop regenerated

​​@@ThomasstevenSlaterso, are you suggesting that there's a pint-sized grumpy leprechaun doctor somewhere, running around doing evil? Now that I put it into writing, that seemed very interesting, though 😁 Edit : you said there wasn't much evil, but 11's words at the end of "Amy's choice" regarding the dream lord suggest otherwise...

[@L3pToad]

What if the Valeyard is actually Richard E. Grant as the Shalka Doctor

[@peterskrobola8753]

The Metacrisis Doctor being the Valeyard would ruin Rose’s picturesque ending, which would be VERY uncharacteristic for RTD.

[@ImmortalAbsol]

What about ganger Eleven?

[@peterskrobola8753]

@@ImmortalAbsol I think he exploded. “The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People” is a pretty confused story because it’s half a human rights story and half a scary alien story. Some of the Gangers go to argue for human rights, the Doctor’s ganger is left to die, and Amy’s ganger is liquidated without a second thought from the Doctor.

​​@@peterskrobola8753that's Chibnall in a nutshell 😁😁😁 Despite Chibnall being Chibnall, the ending seemed to be open-ended to me, the doctor and his flesh counterpart exchanging farewells as if they would meet again. Also, though I don't remember the exact words, the flesh doctor's and flesh chief's (sorry, forgot the character's name) last words to each other also suggest that there's at least a slight possibility of coming back. With Moffat out of the picture (well, so to speak..) I don't see it likely, though. Even Moffat might have done it himself (i.e bringing back the flesh doctor in some capacity, at least as an Easter egg suggesting he's alive and kicking) if he had the desire to, in one of the four seasons that followed. And more importantly, if Matt Smith is to come back, he needs to reprise his role as 11, not some innocent-victim-turned-evil 😁 besides, we all saw how that might turn out in the big screen, as Milo 😝

[@peterskrobola8753]

Chibnall did not write this episode. It was written by Matthew Graham. His only other Doctor Who episode beyond this two parter was universally beloved episode Fear Her.

@@peterskrobola8753 really? I must have confused it with the silurian two parter of the previous season... Chibnall or not, your points are legit, though, and thanks for the clarification 🙂

[@Tall_King_Illustrates]

If they were to do the Valeyard I thought it would be cool if he returned during a Doctor's first season, pulling the strings all season and the finale would reveal him to be the culprit, but its just a slightly older version of the current Doctor. He's defeated and then later down the line the Doctor starts getting darker and darker until in his final season theres a moment where he realises what he's become and either gives in and becomes the Valeyard creating a loop or stops himself before its too late and rewrites the first season.

[@owntmpsn]

Like Savitar from The Flash?

[@Tall_King_Illustrates]

@@owntmpsn Similar yeah

[@MarkGast]

You are a better idea man than anyone currently working for Dr. Who.

[@davidwebb4451]

Worth remembering that the Master was able to "regenerate" after running out of regenerations by stealing someone else's body - Tremas in the "The Keeper of Traken". The meta-crisis doctor would be able to remember that and could maybe repeat the trick. In some minisode we then see him pick a stranger to takeover and he becomes that person who then briefly appears via CGI trickery plus some old film to be Michael Jayston. There then follows a quick flit through scenes from "Trial of a Time Lord" and if possible, again via CGI plus old film, have him repeating the regeneration trick with someone else to become a new modern Valeyard who can then turn up in the next season to plague the Doctor.

[@NoFormalTraining]

When Tobbey Jones showed up as the Dreamlord inside 11's mind, I got Valeyard vibes from him.

[@Jackson-ub1uv]

Until the end, I thought the episode had been hinting at him being a new incarnation of the Master; I feel like he'd have done a fantastic job at it too, although I wouldn't trade Missy for anything.

[@maniraptavia4008]

7:28 - Apologies if this is Covid brain, but, like, I was CERTAIN this was referring to 10s fakeout regeneration at the end of The Stolen Earth - the beginning of Journey's End. Like, not the Metacrisis himself, but how 10 regenerated into 10.5 by stopping the regeneration process between healing himself and getting a new face. I think the Metacrisis IS just considered a separate thing and not a true incarnation of the Doctor. He's half-human, half-timelord and therefore something different entirely.

[@megarotom1590]

I think it would be very interesting if they somehow pulled a return of Missy or a reincarnation of Missy (preferably by retconning the Luminary whatever crap, perhaps making it so that the blast ended up splitting her into two masters in bigeneration, one that becomes the master in 13th doctor's era and the other becomes a more heroic master though still with some negative traits from being the master) then have her basically assist the doctor and fight against the Valeyard as well as attempt to prevent his existance by helping the doctor like he helped her

[@bensilk6431]

David Tennant haging out with Donna becoming the Valeyard would be amazing and we can kind of see how he'd be with his timelord victorious. He's even got his own tardis. I'd much prefer this to the meta crisis doctor since him and Rose really do deserve their happy ending and the bigeneration doctor actually has the motivation to become timelord victorious and take it all in his own hands again, he was dusted by Sutekh and once again believes he has to control to universe and laws of time to keep people safe. Ideally he'd actaully kill Gatwa but realise hes wrong anf give his life to save the main doctor and that could be how Gatwa could Regenerate.

[@DogMutilator]

I remember Matt Smith saying he wanted to play the Master, so the Valeyard is pretty similar. Idk how the story would work though.

[@JagoHazzard]

There's a simple solution to Jayston not being able to reprise the role, and that's to go with a horribly zombie-like version as per the Master. Then have him gain a new body or a new regeneration or something. Or as an alternative, I think I'd bring the Time War into it. The Eighth Doctor regenerates under different circumstances to the one we saw, there's no War Doctor, and we get a different Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh and Twelfth (maybe get some fun actor cameos in there, or perhaps even bring old Doctor actors back as very different versions of the character). Finally, a regeneration "between the twelfth and final" one - but then some Time War shenanigans happen and this timeline is destroyed, and the Eighth regenerates into War as we saw. But the Valeyard is somehow protected from his own erasure - perhaps he was the one who caused the timeline to change and removing him would create a paradox. Perhaps he's in another universe. Either way, there are now two Doctors. This version of the Doctor picks the name "the Valeyard" to differentiate himself, but also in the hope of giving the original Valeyard some kind of redemption. After all, he's clearly not the same Valeyard - he has a different face and personality and everything. Except that he realises that having his past erased has had consequences. The universe won't tolerate his continued existence forever - when he dies, he won't regenerate. Meanwhile, he learns that the Doctor that lives has become a soldier. It seems wrong to him - that the version who wants to do good will cease, while one that's gone bad continues on. As time goes on, the Valeyard becomes unstable - every so often, his face will shift. His mind also becomes twisted - he believes that it is right for him to take his other incarnation's lives, to make better use of them. He becomes evil in the pursuit of a goal he has come to see as righteous. Eventually, he finds a way out of the war, and that's how we get Trial of a Time Lord. As he exits his TARDIS, his face shifts one more time, and we get a brief glimpse of Michael Jayston. Thus we get a version of the Valeyard that isn't pinned to a particular actor - he can just shift as required. Maybe he could even find a way to regain regenerations. And his wider motivation becomes, simply, to be better than the Doctor, but in a ruthless and twisted way.

[@matthiasman]

The Valeyard has always been one of my favourite Who concepts. Like, coming back to steal his own regenerations would mean he’d never exist. He knows he can’t win because he didn’t win.

[@Faux_rl]

I think having the Valeyard as a returning villain would be SO interesting as the Doctor already knows he "died". The Doctor trying to stop the Valeyard becoming who he will be, not to stop evil but because he wants to save a future incarnation of himself meeting his end.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

3:31 Yeah that's one of the Time War name drops that got cut...

[@timrob12]

Ah, the valeyard. If they ever bring him back, I hope they do a little acknowledgement to the late Michael Jayston. Something like they did with Michael Gough in The Giggle would be lovely.

[@MBPpp]

imagine the team-up between the david tennant valeyard and the matt smith master. like a twisted version of the day of the doctor.

[@Jazzdumpling]

I’m pretty sure Russell T Davis is The Valeyard

[@lordofthereels6790]

Could Doctor Donna regenerate into the Valleyard? Isn't she technically part Doctor? That could be an interesting arc having a companion become his nemesis purely from The Doctor's own doing?

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

It was stated that the Valyard was between the 12th and final incarnation of the Doctor, but no mention was made of whether the final incarnation was from this first set of regenerations or a futute set.

[@cjscrubs]

SHALKA DOCTOR IS THE VALEYARD! I'M PREDICTING IT NOW!

[@MrSukram777]

I'm so happy Michael Jayston got to play the Valeyard again, at least in Big Finish. Now he's dead the TV show wasted their chance to feature the original Valeyard for good. Then again, maybe they use footage for reference like with the Toymaker.

[@aeloswindrunner]

What if you gave the meta crisis doctor a single regeneration? Before attempting to trap the doctor in Pete's world, he used unit resources to try and give himself regenerations, but it only works once before breaking

[@markfernkopf5133]

There's also The Fugitive Doctor immediately after The 2nd Doctor. And all signs point to there also being a 2nd 2nd Doctor incarnation after The Fugitive Doctor and before The 3rd Doctor. :)

[@benjaminkellog7311]

Several great ideas that could work well, but I have a somewhat more plausible take on the character that does something the Disney era seems somewhat obsessed with: recycling an old Big Finish concept and attaching it to a deep cut character from Classic lore! In audio stories, The Multitude is a rogue Time Lord dealing with prepetual "regenerative dissonance," meaning the personalities of his prior incarnations are still bouncing around his mind even as his new self takes over. Instead of seeking whatever the time travel equivalent of clinical therapy is, he keeps taking out his frustrations on various incarnations of the Doctor and the Master. In cast listings, you'll usually see him listed as "The One, Two, Three, etc," each number associated with a particular personality; John Dorney, who wrote most of the character's appearances, calls him "The Collective"; one outing saw him being referred to as "The Renegade," eventually revealed to be "The Two." Well, I have a hunch that our old friend Valeyard could either be a severely time-displaced Multitude with slightly better internal consistency, or Valeyard will one day "devolve" into Multitude in a fashion similar to the "MetaCrisis Tennant" idea. In my mind, the Valeyard could rely heavily on stunt casting, each appearance being a one-off by a previous Doctor (Tennant and Eccleston being prime candidates, yes, but Whitaker flipping would be fun) or companion actor (Billie Piper my platonic ideal), essentially playing their old character "gone to seed," small bits of dialogue and behavioral tics informing us that they're all the same being. Or just get Neil Patrick Harris again and have both Valeyard and Multitude be revealed as lame experiments by Toymaker to determine if "Bizarro Doctor" was a worthwhile concept for mischief making. Sorry if all this sounds a bit rambly. I don't if this sort of thing would work well for the show, but it definitely could've been workshopped a lot more in audio and novels, where crazy concepts can and have totally found their own rich inner lives.

[@HereticReborn]

I think RTD plans to do this with Richard EGrant and that’s why his face was really in that rogue episode.

[@elijahgardner8213]

My headCanon is that the door that 11 opened in the hotel in the God complex episode was Matt Smith as the Valeyard. He realized he was the regeneration between his 12th and final regeneration, and because he didn't know he'd regenerate again, his largest fear was that he must become the Valeyard. "Of course. /Who/ else"

[@Alex-z9k6l]

Honestly, I could never be sick of David Tennant. Maybe don’t bring him back right this second but I’d love to see a 14th doctor story of him meeting the meta crisis doctor.

[@LisaBeta-42]

He could play the Metachisis Doctor again - aged up a little bit in his "80 Days around the World" costume and representing the Peter Cushing Doctor in Pete's Universe - took just a little longer to grow his own TARDIS and his little "real granddaughter" Susan wasn't even 12 as they met those colourful Daleks. BUT - if a human brain blows a fuse with all the Time Lord knowledge, he probably would have lost his mind already with his braine cluttered by half Time Lord and half Donna's remembered tv-shows from a different universe. Instead of a practicening Doctor he could make a fortune by installing the most succesful tv-formats in his new universe 😁

[@CineScarborough]

Same here, but I am still disappointed he was the only returning Doctor in the 60th Specials. I don't understand what they were thinking with some of the things that were done for the 60th, like Doom's Day.

[@oliveragag8576]

Imagine a spinoff/new season where the Doctor regenerates into the Valeyard and he goes against the good Master/the Lumiat. It can be called Master Why.

[@jeremythomaswebb1485]

I honestly thought The Fugitive Doctor was going to be the modern equivalent of the Valeyard. Or at least an incarnation of the Doctor who doesn't have any morals, very devious and more willing to use weapons. I thought that was the storyline they were going with after watching series 12. A epic showdown between the two where 13 (the older and wiser doctor of the two with the life experience and morals) would outsmart the Fugitive Doctor and put her on the right path. Like how Ian and Barbara did for the 1st Doctor and all the companions after them. That would have been satisfying to watch. A chance to see what the Doctor would have been like without the influence of their companions and the moral compass that came with that with the Fugitive Doctor. Comparing to 13, a Doctor who has had several lifetimes of friends who have helped shape who she is today.

[@joeyunderwood]

i’m only halfway thru the video, but this sounds like a very cool idea! we know the meta-crisis is less moral (and more human) than the doctor, rose is going to die or leave one day, and we know david tennant will always return! *edit* - i could see this as a 70th (or 75th) anniversary special or something. it would’ve maybe worked as a 20th anniversary special for nuwho, but we know that’s not meant to be happening now. *edit edit* - i also like your alternative approaches, particularly the blockbuster approach. it would be perfect for an anniversary special or one-off movie. *edit edit edit* - i think the point you make about the valeyard being too much of a deep-cut reference doesn’t matter too much, especially if it *isn’t* the metacrisis approach, because an evil version of the doctor is a simple enough concept for new audiences to get behind.

[@andreiamelo4540]

Charles Dance as the Valeyard would be great

[@west24thstreet8]

I honestly after thinking about the validad a lot and how rtd said he should've put someone else be the Dr in the episode for a quick scene. I think the Validad should be canonly the face he would have had. And as a cost from 10th keeping the face the validad was created from pure evil from being upset from being kicked off the cycle. A situation like the watcher

[@DeedeeDirt]

I think one of the main issues I would have with valeyard is, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that a current doctor would meet a pre trial of the timelord valeyard because that implies they have to eventually go back before the time war which feels wrong in a timey wimey way

[@deanc8458]

My opinion is that we give it a regeneration or so then bring him back as a grumpy middle aged Matt Smith. It’s the closest thing we could possibly get to a Master as he himself suggested

[@olaoluwapowilliams5169]

Here’s an idea: Have the Meta-Crisis Doctor aka The Valeyard possess the 14th body in order to get his remaining regenerations. Thus would result in the 15th, 16th, and other Doctors after them becoming corrupted and evil. That would make an excellent 70th anniversary special for Doctor Who.

[@mathieuleader8601]

I was very crestfallen that the character of Roger Ap Gwilliam was not the Valeyard which I suspected was going to be the Valeyard

[@ImmortalAbsol]

I'd like to hear about those small inconsequential stories.

[@vullord666]

I always thought the 12th Doctor would have been perfect as the Valeyard. At the end of series 9 instead of a perfectish ending, 12 takes over Gallifrey and becomes a darker more autocratic ruler in his attempt to get Gallifrey back on the right path while also still being livid over Clara's death. Even if not straight up the Valeyard, he'd represent how the Doctor could become the Valeyard. Paved with good intentions and all that. Then series 10 could have kept the Doctor on Gallifrey and going down a dark path until he runs into Missy/the Mistress who again reminds him who he is. Then 12 leaves, reforms Gallifrey's leadership a bit to be less... awful, and we get the series 9 specials and series 11 plays out much like series 10 (if not ideally cut into two series to flesh things out as it always should have been).

[@mathieuleader8601]

when we got introduced to the War Doctor in Name of the Doctor I thought he was the Valeyard having regenerated into a new incarnation thanks to him now inhabiting the Keeper of the Matrix.

[@Comicbroe405]

Capaldi as the Valeyard would go insane tbh. He was after supposed to be the Doctor's true face & could be used against him.

[@bobsherwood3542]

I've been saying this for years. The metacrisis Doctor becoming The Valeyard, the maths works out perfectly. People just laughed it off at the time. I would totally get behind this concept. Unfortunately spoiled by RTD. Though maybe he appears in one episode as The Valeyard (Tennant) and regenerates to another big name actor, possibly. Also imagine an episode with The Valeyard and The Dreamlord showing up together for The Doctor.

[@A_itsar]

I'd like to think he's 10th doctor if he kept being timelord victorious

[@golden_gloo]

There would be a self-aware way to bring David Tennant back as the Valeyard. The Valeyard represents the future Doctor that he should never be and more generally what the show should never become. It's rather ironic for the future evil to take a face from the past and they could use it to tell a cautionary tale about nostalgia and the woes of constantly looking back.

[@StiggusRattus]

Would love to see the Valeyard to come back as either the meta crisis doctor or as a version of the 9th doctor who became even darker and bitter after the time war

[@JeremyDuncan]

Hey Harbo! Great video. I completely disagree though about the meta crisis being the Valeyard, though. It just feels too dark. I've noticed a lot of creators recently have been putting darker turns on the show in their projects, and i think it might be because Series 1 seemed to trivialize it somewhat, but I argue that Doctor Who is a show that is light. Of course the dark aspects of the show should grab you by the throat, but good almost always prevails in a triumphant way. This kind of ruins the ending for Rose. I think there needs to be a balance. Bringing in the valeyard would be fun though!

[@doctorwhoproductions834]

I’d personally just recast Michael, just like they have done with the 1st Doctor, someone who is good for the role and looks enough like Michael and say nothing about it

[@thecomiclord2206]

I think they waited the chance to bring the Valeyard back. It would have been cool if he showed up in ten, to tease that the doctor was becoming the Valeyard. Eleven, if showing that even with it being his final life, the Doctor could still be the Valeyard. Or even cool 12 or 13 saying that the Valeyard is more possible than ever

[@west24thstreet8]

Love Tennant but bring back matt first 😤😤😤😤 or any other dr in a full episode

[@nymphrodellsalavin]

So, the classic Master possess Nissa's father (Nissa was a companion) and continues as a recurring villain even though the actor had died and the master was out of regenerations. Something similar could easily be done with the Valyard. I would have the Valyard take over the body of the current companion. So much recurring anxst could be milked from that

[@jonahwilliams1331]

Might sound crazy but I think it would be interesting to have the Valleyard be an alternate version of the Doctor created from the altering of his timelines in Name of the Doctor.

[@timothyweers8054]

If your suggesting that the metacrises Doctor is the Valeyard, then let's take this on systematically. If the metacrises Doctor was to make it back to our universe, the Transportation method he chooses could possibly leave him a bit amnesiac, where he steals 15s tardis, travels back to Gallifrey when breaking through the timelines to get there. He appears to have really taken a turn being humanish lucky to have survived the trip he convinces the timelords that he is the Doctor, enough to give him a single regeneration. In order to prove it fully, he gives them advance knowledge of the Doctor's interference in Ravelox, and tries to prove that he gets worse. So, they stage the trial where the Valeyard augments the events with help from the Master to make it truthful with raw parts showing his mishandlings. We all know what happened at the trial, when we saw the final scene where he escaped the matrix was by chance that the keeper of the matrix was to regenerate, he basically did a similar to the Master in Keeper Of Traken. This would be good enough until he han hatch another plan to get a full life of regenerations.

[@mothelysium]

I think that the Valeyard should be 14 going on a path non-intended after his regeneration

[@TheWiggyStardust]

Timothy Chalamet as the Valeyard

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

R.I.P Michael Jayston 🙏

[@MeghanTheShade]

I mean, by the laws of canon, the writers established that the Valeyard would appear between the Twelfth and final regenerations, so it's less a matter of what if, and more of a matter of when. Also, I know it's beating a dead horse at this point, since everyone and their mother has come up with a theory, but who's to say Mrs. Flood isn't the Valeyard?

[@davidwebb4451]

The problem though with all these solutions is that as currently presented the meta-crisis Doctor would remember the "Trial of a Time Lord" . Does anyone know if the Doctor has ever referenced events in "Trial of a Time lord". later in the series ? If not we can assume the same logic applies as in other multi-doctor episodes with the earlier Doctor (Colin Baker) forgetting but if it is referenced later then the meta-crisis Doctor would remember and hence if he becomes the Valeyard he would remember. Thus the Valeyard would know he would lose and the only way out would be that he expected to lose but was playing some other game ie we haven't got the full story of "Trial of a Time Lord".

[@CineScarborough]

I agree. Just have David Tennant play him and say the Metacrisis Doctor is the Valeyard.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

The metacrisis doctor isn't an incarnation of the doctor. When Ten regenerates into ten-again, and keeps his same face, that's an incarnation of the doctor. The metacrisis is just a half-human hybrid. It's not necessey for the metacrisis to be involved in the numbering - we now have confirmation that the First Doctor wasnt actually the first incarnation. The one advantage of the metacrisis Doctor as the Valeyard would be that it doesn't need an additional explanation for why the Valeyard wants to take his regeneration energy - but there are bettwr ways to do that.

[@LisaBeta-42]

But maybe the 1st Doctor was still the FIRST Doctor, having used other names before that - as his TARDIS had always appeard as something else until she was entered the first time by humans in her state of a blue Police Box. And if a forced regeneration brings the bi-generatin in its wake, the Fugitive Doctor by Jo Martin could be the "twin" to the 3rd Doctor. Time Lords forced 2nd to regenerate into someone else and work for them - preferrably forever. Had a fatal experience and split in half - the Time Lords parked one version on Earth (in exile) and used the other version(s) as long as possible, until the Fugitive Doctor made a run for it and vanished, by posing as a human). So they reacrtivated the 3rd Doctor and let him "run free" to make him work for them (and he probably lacked the formal schooling the CIA or Devision had provided their lost agent). Fellow Time Lord were weary of the 4th Doctor in "The Deadly Assasin" for rumors of his involvement with the CIA (like working for them). Sounded strange back then, as the Doctor isn't "taking orders" very well. At his end, something / someone re-merged into his body, although informations of the watcher were never really given...

[@mathieuleader8601]

Considering we never saw 2 regenerate into 3 fully I would have 2 bi-regenerate with the other incarnation being the Valeyard

[@toukoenriaze9870]

i mean they already scuffed up the regenerations sooo it would be fine for the valeyard to regenerate or just become a different form ... or something like that amy/rory dream master episode

[@matthewburger2801]

I too have thought that the best candidate for the valeyard was the metacrisis doctor. My idea was similar to yours where Rose left him or died, and whith him not being able to live a loan or live a life that he feels is beneath him, he will find a way to steal the tardis and try to get the modern doctors reincarnations. In addition, he would also have a vendetta against the dalekks. This vendetta would stim from the Valeyard believing that he is the rightful doctor and the modern doctor has stolen everything that should belong to him, and he would blame the daleks for this. For if it wasn’t for the Daleks, he would not have came into being and forced to Live a life, knowing that someone else is living the life he should have. This vendetta would manifest in him going back to the dalek’s Genesis and crossing those wires, so they would never exist. This would result in a new universe that should not belong. In this new universe, the bats from Father’s Day can make a reappearance to correct the timeline, but are ultimately unable to. In addition, a evil greater than the daleks would be able to threaten the universe, since the daleks are no longer around to keep this evil from getting a foothold, like they did in the original universe. The only way to resolve this problem is to undo what the Valeyard did. Unfortunately, as much as I like David Tennant as the doctor and I love it when he plays a villain, since he made a reappearance in the 60th anniversary, I am tired of him being in Doctor Who. This is not to say I did not appreciate him reprising the role, I think it is just time to move on.

[@mixofreak]

The other Earth could literally have its own Doctor separate from the Metacrisis Doctor, who steals the grieing Metacrisis Tardis to escape, but absorbs Metacrisis and the knowledge and rage of the Time War, who wants to punish the Doctor because the reality bomb still killed his people without knowing the Daleks.

[@Pat12379]

Id like the dreamlord to return aswell like he somehow became real i think he was just in the doctors mind

[@CrusherX1000]

Cumberbatch would be such a good Valeyard!

@@CrusherX1000 he will kill it in any role, and I believe his Doctor Who appearance is long overdue... I have a feeling that it will happen sooner or later, and while I'm hoping for sooner, I have no desire for Doctor Strange go to waste, either, so, in its own time 😁 and still hopefully, he will not wait to get as old as John Hurt when he eventually appeared, which, unfortunately was his first and last 😕

[@black_omne]

I would have the Meta-crisis Doctor be the Peter Cushing doctor from the two movies from the 1960s. I would show that the doctor had up to 13 regenerations (renegade doctor) before the 1st doctor we know from the tv series. The separation of the two could be another bi-generation but the Valeyard is lacking the ability to regeneration more than 13 times leading the doctor to believe he had only 13 regenerations as well. Meaning the Valeyard had been there the whole time working behind the scenes throughout the history of Gallifrey. That the the new time watch sealed up within the Tardis has the essence/consciousness of the Valeyard sealed within it. Allows us to know why the doctor is so afraid of it.

[@Darkstar-qb3dh]

Can you imagine a world where this was the “bi-generation” instead of what we got, you had Jodi regenerate and then get split in half and have to literally face their demons, could of been cool and imo a lot better than what we got

[@Starsteam1]

It should connect to the Waters of Mars, a greater good sort of thing.

[@EddJones25]

Marvel has to make a whole other series, Doctor Who could just do this kinda thing in the main show if it had the balls

[@rpmblack7892]

I have no idea why, but this kind of reminds me of Robert Downey Jr returning as Doctor Doom.

[@wispa1a]

Ive had a theory that's how the valley yard becomes dark.

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

I don't see why you can't just recast the Valeyard. They recast the Toymaker just as easily.

[@SimeonZoom]

This is a great idea that I hope we get at least spiritually

[@EternalWhy]

I have a theory that the valeyard is the doctors cloister wraith

[@Stuffpuff-yu1gq]

What if the villain known as The Wire returned in modern day?

[@JillybeanYT]

What about a possible return of the black and white guardian?

[@billyjoneswatson2357]

**Spoilers Ahead for the [Jodie Whittaker] Doctor & Fam Season** My biggest issue with the Valeyard is simply the Timeless Child Lore dump... the Rule of 13 Regenerations is confusing to me now.... Was the Doctor always limited to 13 Regenerations? When he was rewarded with more Regenerations, was that just smoke and mirrors...? Due to the fact there are possible multiple Doctors before the "1st" Doctor, it just ruins the count. The Doctor being revealed as a creature from possibly another universe, where is apparently had infinite regenerations, where it's dna was used to create the timelords than join the CIA of Gallifrey before having a memory wipe that erases the memories between Teen Doctor and "1st" / War Doctor.... it ruins pretty much everything for the Valeyard.... The Valeyard would need to be of a doctor that never received more regenerations nor discovered his/her origin of being the Timeless Child... It would need to be a version of the Doctor after Matt Smith and before Tranzalore. A timeline where we didn't get the Doctor Who with Sonic Sunglasses.... So it's possible, the Valeyard would need to the final regeneration of a Doctor of a separate timeline, a timeline where things completely changed after Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi series of events. Now, one could argue the Valeyard could have branched off from two events. One: When those eyeless Pale faces in tophats breached the timeline and made Doctor Who die on every adventure (Tranzalore / Matt Smith) or sometime during Peter Capaldi's Depressive Rogue Arc. Bottomline: I think the Valeyard could come from a Doctor who was negatively affected by Clara Oswald. Clara was sent to fix every single moment in time that was corrupted and had to change things to save the Doctor.... now remember... it was the Doctor's ENTIRE life... The show only showed us moments in the Doctor's past that she saved. They didn't show us Doctor's death in future adventures. It is possible that Intelligence villain / Snow man (I can't remember names) also affected events in the recent seasons to kill doctor in every moment of time. Imagine that villain corrupting a moment in Peter Capaldi's timeline of events, or even ruining the battle between Suketh, The Toymaker, Maestro--- That Tranzalore episode is very open to the idea, there is a Clara Oswald that failed to fully remedy a moment of time that was corrupted and left a scarred Doctor that would become a Valeyard, creating a fractured off timeline!

[@thewhovianpokefan7481]

Where did you get the idea for The Meta-Crisis Doctor potential becoming The Valeyard?

[@Domihork]

It's quite an obvious idea...

[@thewhovianpokefan7481]

@@Domihork Not what I meant

[@tenmenstrong]

IDW Comics.

[@thewhovianpokefan7481]

@@tenmenstrong Again not what I meant

[@Redboots]

I'm honestly of the opinion that the valeyard doesn't need to come back. bring back the rani instead. but your idea is how I think they ought to do it should they decide to bring the valeyard back for television. and honestly I dislike the whole fourteen/bigeneration thing and discarded that information out of my brain. so. in my mind it still works lol. another alternative I guess could be a deadly assassin type of deal, dr who gets summoned back to gallifrey and we see this fresh-faced young time lord working with idk the castellan. and then third act twist it's the valeyard! it's theoretically possible to recast someone who looks like a young michael jayston. this would play into one of my personal headcanons that the valeyard isn't physically an incarnation of dr who, but because of his access to the matrix he has somehow convinced himself that he is. which is because I think that's an interesting angle to look at it from. idk

[@william2496]

Biregeneration of the Time Lord victorious, contuniued the arc that Tennant was turning away from before EOT and he regenerated. Metacrisis doctor returning, perhaps after Rose prematurely dies in Petes World driving him mad and grief strucken, would be v cool tho. Tennant would be great in the Crowley esque role.

[@CashelOConnolly]

NO MORE DAVID TENNANT ✌🏻🔷

[@Bored_Barbarian]

It would certainly be fun. Part of timey wimey stuff it could have even been a past version when he had amnesia

[@thepoetoffall7820]

Excuse me. Who is sick of David Tennant? I’m not. Don’t put words in my mouth! Put David Tennant in my mouth! (No, not like that you sicko… ok maybe like that. But only if he wears a blonde wig.) Seriously though, I’m always up for more Tennant.

That parentheses content sure gave me a disturbing image, unless you're a cisgender woman (and please don't tell me if not, I don't want it to get stuck forever!) but it's very funny nevertheless, so I gave a thumbs up 😁 oh, and I'm with you on the general idea, Tennant is always welcome in doctor who (unless, probably, as a villainous character, time-lord victorious in waters of Mars was depressing enough!)

[@CashelOConnolly]

NO MORE DAVID TENNANT‼️✌🏻🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷

[@Itisjustasaganow]

Why?

[@couruu]

@@Itisjustasaganow NuWho is too beholden to him - it feels like the producers just bring him back whenever they need a PR boost. It needs to move itself away

​​​@@couruuthe first time around there wasn't any need for a PR boost, it was the 50th, so it ought to be huge... The second time, the purported reason was that Gatwa was still busy with Sex education, so RTD brought back a fan favourite doctor (along with a fan favourite companion) for as many episodes as possible, to cover for him, but the real reason might have something to do with the pr boost (at least partly). Whatever the reason, Tennant is one of my favourites (too bad I'm attached to 11 and 12 too much 😝 so he's only third, but a very close third 😁), so he's always welcome, and when I saw 13 regenerate into him, my jaw dropped despite knowing that he would be in the 100th specials, because I had assumed, like many, that he'd come back as 10. On top of that, Tennant isn't even the only option to play to long-time fans' nostalgia, 11 is also one of the most popular doctors (my number one, for one thing), and the way I see it from the media, Matt Smith seems to be even more eager to return than Tennant at this point.

[@Domihork]

Honestly, the more I hear, the more I hope we never see the Valleyard ever again. Especially if it had to be David's Doctor, which at this point would make the most sense. But what do we want more - to see the Valleyard and have either one of both happy endings (Meta-crisis and 14th) destroyed or just keep the happy endings and never see Valleyard? I don't think there's THAT much demand for him for this to be worth it. Moreover, the Doctor looking into himself and fighting his inner demons has been done to death. The 15th Doctor was supposed to be a clean break from that, with 14th carrying and dealing with all the baggage.

[@bobo577]

11:35 So like the Eleven?

[@mathieuleader8601]

you could make the Valeyard canon by having come into being thanks to Bi-Regeneration.

[@tylermarble1561]

Why doesn't BBC just actually do this?

[@TheCraa_Editz]

What if they brought Matt Smith back he has always said he wouldn't mind

[@kakota_dai]

Yeah he did say that he wouldn't mind coming back if he could play The Master but this could be a good compromise

[@ThomasstevenSlater]

Maybe the doctor's daughter?

[@nodatastored684]

Ergo bigeneration one is what the Doctor Originally was and the second the Time Lord aspect. Its still a chnce the Master, The Rani and the Deca are parts of one being seperated into smaller pieces

[@KingKhanAbz]

If David Tennant come back again, I'd like him to be a villain. Or Matt Smith 😁

[@benfleming-yates4996]

Okay imagine this. There's no David Tennant as the 14th Doctor, it goes from Whtitaker to Ncuti. At the end of Power of The Doctor, something is wrong with the TARDIS as it falls sideways outside of the time vortex, plunging into the void, the great unknown. And we put this video's idea of The Meta Crisis Doctor as The Valeyard as the main focus for the 60th specials and have them all set on Pete's World and each connected, culmaniting in the end of the second special where The Meta Crisis Doctor reveals his real plans and darker self and The Doctor being trapped on Pete's World while The Valeyard/Meta Crisis Doctor escapes. What if this is where we get the new compnanin from aswell, Pete's World. And it could be like Evelyn from Big Finish and you would have a dynamic where the compnain is older than the actor playing The Doctor and maybe her parents died a long time ago and she never married aand has no one and that's why she leaves her universe with The Doctor. It would also not make Tennant's return seem so tired and fan servicy and desperate, and would give him something new to do in the world of Doctor Who and give himself the proper villanous role we were promised with something like Time Lord Victirous but never got. How are fans like you Harbo better at writing Doctor Who than the current showrunner?

[@Comicbroe405]

Bruh 💀

[@forcedalek]

I see you 😉😉😉😉

[@HillarySJohknaym]

I enjoyed his end in O'l Sixie's last Big Finish story

[@selatidos]

I want the valeyard to return in a finale ....very distant not from doctor who,but from" series 23" ,and i hope someone like you put in the images like benedict cumberbatch or as i imagine hugh laurie (more probably)

[@Bored_Barbarian]

14:49 I would love it, but maybe 1-2 years.

[@thorkilosborn3925]

"all a bit sick of David Tennant", not likely 😏