What if the Hapsburgs Never Ruled Spain?

[@elianes5505]

Only thing I find inaccurate in this video is the claim that the American viceroyalties and the Philippines wouldn't be rich because of the Spanish "extractive colonial model" Truth is, Viceroyalties like New Spain and Peru WERE pretty rich in our timeline with high salaries and such, precisely because Spain's colonial model wasn't very extractive. The Spanish Crown only received 20% of each viceroyalty's resources (a tax known as the royal fifth). This means 80% of the resources stayed in America to develop the viceroyalties, building cities, universities, churches, roads, etc.

[@spaniardmapper1427]

I can't express with words how glad I'm to see this video, as Spain is never payed much attention in the alt history community, thank you so much for this

[@HistorysInfluence]

Thank you. I think all the eu4 campaigns I've played Castile/Spain as really gave me a passion for the nation and its history.

[@Iter_fire_guy]

Yeah

[@kuroazrem5376]

Deberían prestarle más atención por su importancia histórica.

[@KuroiWinter95]

In the angli alt history community*

[@Archivist1492]

I agree

[@nenu]

The extractive nature of the spanish empire? Dude, you are talking about the british, french and dutch Spain established universities, made indigenous languages official, and countries like Mexico, Argentina or Venezuela were among the most prosperous places on Earth right when independence happened LatinAmerica's problems started after independence, particularly in the XX century. The so-called "extractive" is the Quinto Real, where the King of Spain would get 1/5 (20%) of all the gold and silver from the americas, to fund his lavish wars in Europe The remaining 80% remained in the Americas, and was wasted by latinoamerican elites' corruptiom in the XIX and XX centuries

[@Neatling]

Great video! And very interesting to see a scenario that hasn't gotten much attention here on KZbin. I'm also happy to hear you'll be making more videos, wish you all the best man.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Cheers man, yeah definitely, I thought I'd be a good area to explore.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Feel free to leave any feedback, or suggests of what videos I should do next.

[@romainvicta8817]

Very cool video! You should do a video on if Theodoric's Italy never fell to the Byzantines.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Good idea actually, I think I will make that one.

[@SuperGman117]

@@HistorysInfluence (he didn't make that one)

[@GarfieldRex]

Perhaps the Catholic kings Trastámara successor would have enforced further the humane politics toward natives and africans. Also as not being directly linked to the Habs, a better relation with France could have occurred and less conflict. Overall would have been a less aggressive Spain in Europe, more developed because of less wars, a better Spain 👌

[@SrLx1]

Conflicts with France were inevitable, there was rivalry between France and Aragón in Italy and Occitania during Middle Ages. Also the French politicians were angry with the Tordesillas Treaty due to it's desiree to conquer lands in América against Castile sphere of influence

[@Eldeibi84]

The conflicts with France were due to Arangon, and Navarre, they had nothing to do with Hasburgs. However Spain could’ve better handle France had it not been involved in the Hasburgs bullshits in Flanders, Holy Roman Empire, Etc…

[@Eldeibi84]

As a matter of fact that’s why the Hasburgs happened. The Trastamaras married their children to royal houses encircling France. The Trastamaras and Spain had a cycle of bad luck of heirs dying, but the Hasburgs were not supposed to happen.

[@GarfieldRex]

@@Eldeibi84 exactly 👌

[@Gloriaimperial1]

The Habsburg title is only a man's surname, which was placed before the woman's surname. Charles I, first Habsburg king was the son of a Spanish Trastamara queen, so he was 50% Spanish. The Trastamara were owners of half of Italy, which they conquered with arms, and the model was Castilian, not Dutch or German. The center of the Spanish empire was always Castile, in Spain, not Germany. With Spanish ministers, mostly. Isabel of Castile, Trastamara, said in 1500: "I want the Spanish, men and women, to marry the natives of the new lands (America) and form Christian families." And Charles I of Austria (we didn't call him Habsburg), king of Spain, was the one who ordered a congress of experts from Spanish universities and the Vatican, to determine the rights of the indigenous people. All Spanish kings had a policy of civilization and racial integration in America. Trastamara, Austria and Borbón. The Protestant empires were very commercial, and not very integrative (England and the Netherlands). The Spanish feared the advance in the world of this commercial, non-Romanizing model. That is why they were obliged to fight the Protestants and save the Catholic religion, to prevent Protestant expansion in France, South Germany, Austria, Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, Asia and America. The Trastamara waged religious wars throughout the Mediterranean. The Habsburgs and Austria were also Catholic. I think they were very similar in their objectives. Spain had many innovations in the 16th-19th centuries. The problem is not religious, because the nobles and businessmen, if there is investment, displace the power of the church. Spain had the same problem as all the Mediterranean peninsulas, to sell its products in the center of Europe, where the majority of the European population and the main markets are located. France borders Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg. Spain has a border with the sea, the Pyrenees mountain range and Portugal. The border regions of Spain and Italy are the richest. Most of Germany's wealthy companies have been created on the border with France and the Netherlands. This is no longer so much of a problem, because now there are planes, railways, Internet sales and air conditioning to work during the 5 months of heat with 30-40 degrees Celsius, from the south of Spain, Italy or Greece. But in the 16th and mid-20th centuries it was a problem. Morocco and Algeria have it even more difficult: more heat and more isolation.

[@andypandy00011]

Spain and England didn’t have a bad relationship, that is till Phillip put Elizabeth the first on the throne in order to avoid queen mary of the Scotts to take the throne. The unification of the peninsula was greatly affected by the kind of cold war fought by the Iberian union and England is a Habsburg was not in power there was no reason for Portugal to be supported by English interests and would likely still a single country today. The politics before 1848 didn’t have that nationalist tone. And the Iberian peninsula tried many times to unify before. Most likely without the Hapsburgs the would try to conquer north Africa

[@T_Kelso]

This is one of my favourite alternate history channels on KZbin!

[@HistorysInfluence]

Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it.

[@T_Kelso]

@@HistorysInfluence I only found you today! Excellent quality and choice of topics.

[@carlodubini5589]

I think that it will be not American wars of independence because Spain did a very great cultural assimilation in this territories and in this world Spain would be not affected of the Napoleonic invasion and thanks to the Cadiz constitution, the colonies were considered as regions of Spain (not colonies). So, I think that will be an Hispanic confedetation for geographical reasons.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Good point actually. In my opinion due to the long-term exploitative nature of the colonies they would rather be independent, but I wouldn't say it's out of the picture that there would be a Hispanic confederation, either like the UK and some of its former colonies or maybe something more loose.

[@wires-sl7gs]

I would kinda like to see your take on "What if Latin America was rich?", like if Spain was colonized "better". Also I'd kinda like to see a scenerio on "What if the Americas had Horses/Beast of Burden"

[@HistorysInfluence]

That's a video I'd like to make as well. The idea on America having horses is quite unique but would change the game alot in that area, good idea bro. I've had a hiatus due to uni exams and that but I'm starting to work on videos again by the way.

[@wires-sl7gs]

@@HistorysInfluence Yeah, I imagine it would, and hopefully it isn't too difficult of a topic to tackle or anything. Alrighty, Hope that goes well for you ^^ Also recently found a video about "Why didn't the Ottomans conquer Italy": kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXPTg41vfaqld6M and it basically boils down to bad timing, luck, and skilled/dangerous leaders in the Balkans that made expanding outwards difficult. That might be a good source of inspiration and info if you were to do a video on "What if the Ottomans conquered Italy" Or something

[@buzter8135]

If the natives had horses from a natural basis, the existing political entities in the new world would've been massively more potent and powerful, especially the apocalyptic zoonotic plagues not meeting utterly unprepared immune systems. The European colonies would've never survived.

[@alejandroalonso5386]

The Spanish Viceroys were extremely wealthy. They fell after the independence movements

[@wires-sl7gs]

@@alejandroalonso5386 You mean the people were extremely wealthy, or the Spanish elite there were extremely wealth? Because I extremely doubt they were doing all that well as colonies made to purely extort material resources and port them back to Spain.

[@kuroazrem5376]

I don't think the Spanish American War, or even Mexican independence for tha matter, would happen. This is because the Mexican Empire offered the throne to a Spanish royal during its independence, which, if it were to happen in this timeline, they might accept it, thus keeping Mexico united with Spain, and also dissuading the USA from attacking either. Besides, a Spain more tolerant of Muslims, as well as less focus in Europe, they might expand further into Southeast Asia, particularly in Brunei, and keeping their colonies for longer. When modernization happens, maybe after a loss to Napoleon and some subsequent revolutions, Spain would reform and industrialize, making it even more powerful, and allowing it to keep an empire in North America, North Africa, and Southeast Asia.

[@Bradley2806]

Do you think that an iberian union wouldve been possible if it were to happen earlier. What if miguel da paz survives infanthood and therefore inherits all 3 iberian kingdoms (since he was the heir to all 3)?

[@HistorysInfluence]

I think you're right, the earlier it would have happened the less "national identity" the kingdoms would have I feel. I think I've heard about that guy, was he the Portuguese prince? Seems feasible he would have controlled iberia, perhaps long term it would have lasted as well

[@Bradley2806]

@@HistorysInfluence yeah he was the son of isabella of aragon and manuel I of portugal. Isabellas and miguels death allowed joanna the mad and by extension the habsburgs to have the spanish throne.

[@espadarte_ex]

Union under Afonso (son of John II of Portugal) was more likely to work sense it would happen even sooner.

[@bigtuga4ever]

Miguel da paz, was likely to inherite the whole of iberia had he not died at a young age. And a king that was both Portuguese and Spanish would have united Iberia into the superpower it should have always been.

[@Galante177]

You came back for a moment there i was starting too think this was a dead what if channel that would have been saaad noice to see your back YAAYYY

[@untitled3045]

Really good video. You definitely deserve more subs.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[@KameroonEmperor]

How would the franco-prussian war happen? Great video BTW, really surprised of how good it was, first I thought this was another of those cringe alt history vids where the world is perfect because of Spain lol but no. Subbed, liked and continue the excellent work 👏

[@HistorysInfluence]

I'll definitely be covering that scenario eventually, too interesting of a scenario not to cover. And yes haha I like to focus on a balanced view of what could happen in these timelines. Thanks for the support.

[@mako2531]

Great video! I've always argued with some family members (my parents were born in Spain) that the Hapsburgs were so bad for Spain. Thanks for your video. Hope to see more

[@GXSergio]

What do you mean by extracting nature, your are repeating all the time? Most of the wealth from the colonies stayed at the colonies, the finest craftsmen left mainland to pursue a better life at the other side, only mandatory taxes went back to mainland. I mean, you only have to go there and see by yourself the amount of majestic cities and huge infraestructure built from nothing. And compare it with africa or asian regions colonized by brits, dutch or french.

[@Eldeibi84]

The Hasburgs were the worst thing that happened to Castille and Aragon.

[@JTL1776]

What if Aragon and Portugal. United Iberia instead of Castille.

[@adriancampos8640]

That's close to impossible. Castile had a greater population that both combined.

[@siimplykittxie8469]

​@@adriancampos8640So what if Castile united with Portugal instead of Aragon?

[@adriancampos8640]

@@siimplykittxie8469 people in Portugal would speak Castillian

[@erichtomanek4739]

I think Spain would concentrate even more on colonization across the Atlantic. I think in North Africa, the inquisition would occur just like Iberia. The nobility would still invest readily in North Africa as it's close to Spain and still riches to make - gold from the south. It did not have to worry about Central Europe and the Holy Roman Empire. The Phillipines may be called: The Juanistas......

[@1vangm484]

As a spaniard I think it would be more like"Islas Juanillas"

[@kuroazrem5376]

I think that, in this timeline, Spain might be more tolerant of Muslims, not only in North Africa and the Philippines, but even in Spain itself.

[@michaelthomas5433]

So... without Spanish gold you might find the Ottomans inside Vienna rather than outside its walls. And that along with all the other changes that would mean for Europe may also have affected Spain.

[@justinianthegreat1444]

Philippines is not a wealthier region? Excuse me!? My country was significantly richer during the Spanish colonial era and yes we arr Hispanicized

[@rogeliovaldez6594]

Its noting that Mexican independence only happened bc of conservatives not liking the new liberal spanish govt and switching at the last minute. it was actually a losing battle for the revolutionaries and at the end of it they still wanted spanish monarch but for mexico to autonomous and equal to Spain not unlike Canada in fact it would have predated Canada if it had gone through. It's something that make it independence movement different from others in latin America

[@mapachuss1563]

can someone resume this i don't talk english

[@naruck15]

I checked to see if I accidentally left EU4 on while watching this

[@jorgenjackson3231]

OMG. "Extractive model of Spanish colonialism". At the moment of their Independence, various American countries were richer than the supposed Metropoly, as was the case of Mexico. The "extractive model" in Hispanic America left about 25 universities, hundreds of hospitals, hundreds of cathedrals and thousands of churches. Hundreds of cities were created, some richer and more beautiful than many of their European counterparts. Some of those are World Heritage (Guanajuato, Puebla, Morelia, Antigua Guatemala, Sucre, Cartagena de Indias, and so many more). Roads, water supply, justice system, forts protecting from pirates. All that is what was payed with the taxes. As far as I know, the only taxes/money that went to "Spain" were the 20% of gold and silver extracted in the mines that went to the King himself. Now, tell me, how many of those things were built by the British in India, Australia or the USA?

[@mitonaarea5856]

Now tell me, why are every single former Spanish colony a mess of a country nowadays?? Was the spanish model of colonisation really better than other european models??

[@jorgenjackson3231]

@@mitonaarea5856 Maybe because after their "independence" they became British colonies? And then US colonies?

[@mitonaarea5856]

@@jorgenjackson3231 what?? US colonies??

[@jorgenjackson3231]

@@mitonaarea5856 Call it neocolonialism, exploitation, opression, imperialism, dominance,... If we are going to play the definition game, then let's be proper everywhere: Hispanic America was not a "colony" of Spain.

[@jonayz8655]

No country in the world seeks independence if its poor because that would mean to be left alone in poverty. Only rich regions want to be independent states so they don't have to share their riches with other regions belonging to the empire and with the metropoli.

[@Shusiareed]

I mean they also united under the Habsburg and if they did better they could have stayed so

[@elmaje9119]

Miguel Da Paz

[@georgios_5342]

If Greece was not conqered by the ottoman empire? Thanks!

[@HistorysInfluence]

I’ll have a look into that. I’m considering doing a Greco-Turkish war video down the line.

[@georgios_5342]

@@HistorysInfluence well you did create a what if there was no 4th crusade, so that's pretty cool I guess.

[@HistorysInfluence]

@@georgios_5342 I think I’ll end up making your scenario in one form or another eventually, I just want to balance out the topics I cover. In any case I’ll give credit when I use ideas from the audience.

[@gangstalkers4091]

What if the Republicans of Spain won the Spanish Civil War? And what if the Mayans survived?

[@HistorysInfluence]

Great ideas, I haven't seen any Mayan timelines on KZbin so that's a topic I'd love to cover in the future.

[@KaiserumReal]

Miguel de Paz, heir of Portugal, Castille and Aragon would be a more interesting timeline. His mother was the oldest daughter of the catholic kings and died close to 2 years after his birth. It would mean a more natural Iberian union with portugal as the "major" partner and the capital would probably be Lisboa. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_da_Paz,_Prince_of_Portugal

[@alejandroalonso5386]

It’s not latin America, it’s Hispanic/ibero America

[@rokball4892]

Great video! I’d like you to make a video what if Confederates won the Civil War!

[@HistorysInfluence]

Thanks, I'll definitely be making that video down the line.

[@GarfieldRex]

What if Armand, Cardinal Richelieu didn't exist or didn't had influence over the king? 🤔 Interesting European politics

[@HistorysInfluence]

Cheers for the comments David, I appreciate the support. I honestly didn't know about Armand, just found out on Wikipedia that he forms the basis for the Three Musketeers haha.

[@Slice-nf5jw]

Bohemia stays emperor of hre

[@SentMyOwnWay]

🤙

[@lewiswebster2089]

One Bad Part of this Timeline is that Charles II [the Hexed] Wouldn't exist. Meaning we Would have one less Laughing Stock of a Ruler to make fun of. Ah who am I Kinding, there's always someone to Laugh at. [the Orange President Being one of them]

[@slav1467]

*oRanGe mAn bAd* said the NPC.

[@alejandroalonso5386]

How was Charles II a laughing stock? He was one of the best Spanish monarchs.