What if the Jacobites Never Left Scotland?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Upcoming Live shows www.brucefummey.co.uk/shows.aspx A video about another What if...? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmWYmqJpbMhmnMU Buy me coffee at www.buymeacoffee.com/ScottishBruce

[@paulmcdermott4336]

Did i see that you had a show in Grangemouth coming up? or did i miss it? I am history graduate and really like your videos. I have questions though..................so many questions!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

@@paulmcdermott4336 Aye Grangemouth was last weekend

[@paulmcdermott4336]

Damn it! Id have definitely been there if I'd have known earlier@@ScotlandHistoryTours

[@Thepictishscotsman]

Keep up the good work. Love your content! The knowledge you guys have is brilliant 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿💙

[@raydriver7300]

Three passionate historians discussing what ifs with friendly banter. What’s not to enjoy 🌞

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Absolutely, though I was a student at the feet of the masters

[@michaelfawcett7795]

I love this format, having scholars with differing opinions discuss various events. I hope that the sound quality can be improved for future videos.

[@reynardthefox]

Thanks! Good One...I always wonder...if the union gad broken... would there have been an Empire? without the Highland regiments ? maybe not

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Exactement. Big thanks

[@sandylee9564]

So iteresting but it all hurts my brain because I forget the details of these issues.....I'll need to re-watch your videos about this era in historyj.f again, and take NOTES! Enjoyable discussion Bruce.

[@nickporter3531]

If the ambition of Charles Edward Stuart was to retake the throne of Great Britain then they he had no choice but to go south to take the throne from the Hanoverians (who claimed the throne through the Scottish line of succession). Whilst there was support for the Jacobites throughout the British Isles there was also strong support for the Whig’s from the 1660’s onwards - and had revolted against the Stuart monarchy in 1685 during the Monmouth Revolt. In ‘45? There was support for the Jacobites - on both sides of the border. It wasn’t just a Scottish attempt at regime change.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

That's right. Both sides had Irish and Welsh fighting too, from what I can remember.

[@kennethdocherty6942]

I hope your history's mair accurate than your apostrophes.

[@smacwhinnie]

Yup, Bonnie Prince Charlie was a unionist, albeit Popish

[@benyahudadavidl]

So, we're not going to ask why they were called Jacobites and why the royals were surnamed Black? Ie 1:41 Stuart. sources available 😢 1:34

[@Lady_Graham]

@@benyahudadavidlI believe the surname Black is due to their black hair, which was somewhat unusual, and Jacobite comes from the Latin version of James (jacobus).

[@DARKSLIDEHLL]

thanks for teaching man, not many keeping history as cool as you.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

One does one's best 😎

[@gallo5263]

Bruce, I can barely contain my excitement. My grandmother used to live opposite the North Inch, on Blackfriars Street, and as a young man I used to go the Salutation every Thursday. I appreciate this is of no interest to anyone other than me but can’t help myself. Great video by the way 😂

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Brilliant

[@fester73666]

Another great collaboration video Bruce, learning Scottish history through your channel is amazing 👍👍

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Brilliant

[@TorturedSoul76]

They had no choice but to go south. Great video, as always, and a great gig last night in Stranraer. Me and my boy had a great time.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I thoroughly enjoyed it

[@TorturedSoul76]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours would be great if you would come back again

[@hiyahiya5317]

Bruce has great charisma and is good at doing his research. Keep up the good work, Bruce

[@shrubby-ov4yw]

He's a man of two minds. He wants direct answers but he knows just as much there isnt always such easy answers. So he knows to play the balancing act. Say what you like about his own personal views, he has a real sense of giving both sides their day in court whatever the cost.

[@MacKenziePoet]

This is fantastic!!! Amazing historians having a pint. It's as if you're in the room enjoying a pint with them. The conversation gives us a whole new perspective on Jacobitism. PLEASE give us more like this...

[@euansmith3699]

Thanks for another great collaborative video. "Spin it out a bit." 😂😂😂

[@michaelthomson8065]

Another great episode Bruce.With a lively debate between the two historians.For sure,things changed in Scotland after 1846. Brings to mind a quote by Frederick Douglass,an outspoken Black American Abolishinist. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to,and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them."

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Aye we know aobut Fredrick Douglas kzbin.info/www/bejne/goLThqKAoLepes0

[@CreateYourFateBrazil]

I always enjoy a good historic video of scotlands past. Glad to see one of my own kinsman from back home in Perth doing so well, keep up the good work Bruce

[@raiderfanmike]

Thank you for taking the time to teach some history and fun facts about Scotland. I was stationed in the Navy in Dunoon Scotland for three years and absolutely love it there. My wife and I have been back several times since to visit and will be back again this July. Coffee or a pint is on me if we see you …🎉😅

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Check out my Clan Lamont video

[@johnharvey4333]

Hold up!!!! You only served 3yrs, how did you manage to escape??? Dunoon had a way of grabbing hold of the Navy service men & women & they could never leave,..."Join us! Join us! You have always belonged here". Oh wait I see your coming back next "GOOD GOOOD!!! FEEL THE POWER OF THE DAL RIADA SIDE FLOW THROUGH YOU!!!"(he typed in an Emperor Palpatine voice😂). As a Dunoon boy I would say "welcome back" I'll say "welcome home" 👍

[@eamonnclabby7067]

Nicely put, sir...always great to see you out there...E...😊😊

[@Allastrology]

Thanks kindly Bruce! Again, really a great lesson for us in the US to see face to face, opposite opinions, debated with enthusiams and respect❤❤❤ these folks come with the knowledge... prerequisite for Bruce's debates. Excellent!!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Allastrology]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours for sure!

[@weekay5112]

Hi Bruce ya Bawbag 👀🤣 , just back from your gig in Grangemouth , I love everything minute of it , would love to have had the confidence to stayed behind with the group of people eager to meet you but I’m not a fan of social gatherings 😅 ( your gig is my first social event I’ve been to years , but totally worth it )enjoy the rest of your travels and hopefully next time I see you it will be in one of the amazing places you’ve taught me about 😁and I will be confident enough to meet and talk to you 😊you’ll spot me miles away I’m always in purple 🤣

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Thanks so much for coming out

[@m_d1905]

This is the way to discuss history, nice and relaxed with a pint. Edit: I often wonder how the American Revolution would have been effected by a Jacobite victory and a Stuart on the throne of England. 🤔

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

We cover that in a recording that will be released later

[@joegroves1519]

“I sometimes make mistakes…” 😂. LUV IT!!!

[@manuellubian5709]

Great video subject. Wish it could have been for longer. It was fantastic to allow them them to each present their perspective. Only suggestion I have is to do another interview with them, again. Let them each answer a question completely before asking the other one to chime in. It was a little hard to clearly hear their individual responses because of all the cross talk between them.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

😂😂If you knew what was involved in settign these up I don't think you would have made that suggestion

[@manuellubian5709]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours Oh, my !! Yes, I would imagine their time schedule is tight. I only meant I wanted to be able to better hear what they said for the sake of understanding their individual perspectives. Other than that I definitely liked their banter.

[@cherry-xz6ei]

Fantastic. Thank you so much, my friend. 🙏

[@shannonmarshall7843]

This was a fun interview. Very jolly bunch. We’ll see you in Toronto canada next month!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I can't wait

[@RCamHelm80]

Very interesting video again Bruce, often thought about this as well. Also what would have happened if the French had sailed and landed on the South coast of England. Could suggest the British army would have been tied up in the south, and the highland jacobites would have likely returned home (as many wanted having already been a way for a while) and sought better terms. May have saved the highlands from rampaging redcoats at least. Fascinating subject though with far reaching implications for European and north American history.

[@moocowdad]

nothing better than seeing a few guys having a beer and talking intelligently and i will see you in fergus ontario when you come, oh btw my grandfather was a gordon highlander during ww1 got the mons star my dad served in the raf during ww2 shipped to prince edward island and the law was he had to becone rcaf then shipped back to britain where he again became raf then near the end of the war became an argyle and sutherland highlander in austria, i served in the rcaf and my son was an argyle and sutherland highlander of canada and served in 2007 in afghanistan my friend sandra bald jones taught champion highland dancers including my neice and my daughter she will be in fergus

[@melissalambert7615]

I agree with the point that the Jacobites were a large part of international history and ignored in current studies. I never heard of them (but I was educated in the US), other than here. For this video I first went back and watched one of your older videos to catch up.

[@alicemilne1444]

Very interesting. Only downer: couldn't always hear everything that Murray and Christopher were saying.

[@pobthecat]

Agree, although this was an amazing topic and Bruces "lead-up" was good I couldn't hear or understand what was being said most of the time during the actual discussion. Otherwise I love your history Tours. 👍

[@kaitlyn__L]

I understood them both fine, but they did have radically different Scottish accents so I could see why it’d cause a problem. I’d love for this channel’s videos to have proper, professional subtitles for everybody whatever the reason they need them.

[@alicemilne1444]

@@kaitlyn__L It wasn't their accents. I'm a Scot myself and could understand them perfectly well. It was mostly that the sound was not balanced properly, so Bruce's voice (and laughter) was very much louder than the voices of the other two, which resulted in them being "drowned out" every now and again.

[@moragmckay3779]

@@kaitlyn__L It wasn't the accents, it was the differential volume. I'd turn it up to hear them, still not have it high enough and Brue's raucous laughter would have me reaching to turn it down. Pity, because from Bruce's side (like listening to one side of a telephone conversation and maybe catching wee bits over the phone when they spoke up a bit louder) it seemed fascinating, if too short.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@moragmckay3779 maybe my TV has a subtle compressor built in, I didn’t notice the laughter being louder than the speech. I did have to turn up the interview section to hear them.

[@melissavancleave8686]

Your videos get better and better. Thank you.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Ah thanks

[@davesky538]

I'll check the books out! Thanks!

[@johnbinnie5697]

It was not much of a choice then and it's not much of a choice now. Viva the republic!

[@cindy844]

My Scottish emigrant ancestor, Alexander Kerr, was part of the Jacobite rebellion. He went to America in 1716 as a prisoner. From 'Passenger and Immigration Lists Index' -- "List of Rebel Prisoners Imported by Capt. Edward Trafford in the Elizabeth and Anne from Liverpole [sic], 1716." He settled in Williamsburg, Virginia.

[@kingkonglji]

Amazing, what did he look like??? 👍🏽 there’s a massive elephant in the room when it comes to the jacobites so you don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to. I already know there’s a whole race worth of history deleted, I just like to look for evidence 🙌🏽

[@weejackrussell]

He will have also been forced to work for several years as part of this punishment. He would have been one of many people transported to the Americas. I was shocked when I found some of my relatives were sent there as a punishment and forced into indentured servitude. Australian transportation took place after it had been going on across the Atlantic for hundreds of years. People don't usually know about it. Barbados was a place where many were sent too.

[@weejackrussell]

Some escaped and their descendents are now Spanish.

[@Mrs.A583]

Lot of kerr in Ayrshire still

[@alicemilne1444]

​@weejackrussell That had been happening for years already. After the Battle of Dunbar in 1650, around 5000 Scottish prisoners of war were marched down to England and stuck in a camp near Durham where a huge number of them died of starvation and disease. There are records of 500 of those who lived being sold into servitude and shipped out to Maryland where they were bought by sawmill and mine owners, or other wealthy colonists. This was not like transportation for criminal offenses, but pure war profiteering. How long the prisoners had to work to buy their freedom, I don't know.

[@plainsimple442]

As a direct descendent of Robert II, I stand in line for the crown!

[@theGhostofRoberttheBruce]

The crown has never belonged to the Stewards of Dol.

[@Geep615]

Some of my ancestors who died for the South in the American Civil War, were the likely of some extended relation to some of the men who fought at Culloden. The parallel between the charge at Culloden and the charge that my ancestor died in at Franklin is somewhat astounding. 120 years later and the basic premise of the attack was still the same and so was the result. It must have been horrific to be a part of

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Aye war's a terrible thing. I'd guess there were descendents of Culloden on both sides during the American Civil War

[@Geep615]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours For Certain

[@GraemeCampbellMusic]

Wee Charlie was only interested in the British crown. Scotland & the Jacobites were just a resource for him to realise his ambitions. He eventually lived out his life while the Highlanders paid the price. By the way there is a very nice pub in Stirling called the Settle Inn, just near the castle where I play regularly and that was a meeting place for Jacobites.

[@bigboaby555]

the highlanders etc knew exactly what they were getting into ? you talk like Charlie hoodwinked them into it . He probably wasn't able to deliver on a few of his promises though , like french troops etc.... Also he was pretty big in stature so I don't know why your calling him 'wee' Charlie .

[@paulmcdermott4336]

There is where the 'feudal system' comes in. Which was still in great effect in the Highlands. Many of the Highlanders wanted nothing to do with fighting in a rebellion. If however they were living on the land of a Highland chief who had agreed to raise his troops for the rebellion....then they had to go....or they would be evicted. Bad landlords didnt just start during the Highland Clearances ye know. If the chief said you were going then you were going whether you liked it or not @@bigboaby555

[@ridgewalker5718]

Had they stayed in Scotland, there would be a much larger population in the highlands and a much smaller number of Scots in America.

[@Marcblur]

I love how yer man went to great pains to phrase the Tom Jones treatment as politely as possible. A true gentleman!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

😂

[@midsouthirish1680]

Bottom of the night to ya brother man from here in Tennessee.. God Bless

[@beachdog67]

*sigh* Okay, Bruce. This has to be said. Fascinating conversation. Well done, you, for putting it together. BUT: I sure could have absorbed a lot more if I hadn't been distracted riding my volume level through all 13 minutes of playback. That's right. I have tech feedback, and it's not going to be bouquets and butties. Now, this is the thing. Matt Ward's videography is ALWAYS spot on. But the audio track is sadly neglected. And this is chronic. When you're doing a solo presentation, the jumps and drops in gain are perhaps annoying,but can be listened past, even when you cut from take to take and/or roll in audio v.o. recorded in studio rather than live. More attention to making those cuts less jarring, but I will grant you there are a LOT of KZbin videos out there (even from content creators with a hell of a large subscriber base) that are much rougher, but that's really no excuse for material of your caliber. And on the occasions like this, when you're in conversation with two or more interview subjects, it is essential not to neglect this. It's great all three of you are individually mic'ed (and frankly, I wasn't sure that was the case for the first three or four minutes of the interview/debate) but if each of you isn't being recorded to a separate track (with a commitment to massage and remix the audio in post) there really needs to be an experienced live remote sound guy along with the rest of the crew on the shoot. The mean levels for the three of you are wildly mismatched-sounds like it might be as much as 20dB. And when the three of you are having a laugh (which seems to happen at least a half dozen times and is truly a delight) the levels had to be pinning any and every active VU meter in the room. We're not talking rocket surgery here, Bruce. These are issues any competent audio engineer working for scale could easily control. And not addressing it really does a disservice to your content, and the hard work you invest in putting it together. I hope this didn't read as "too harsh." It's meant to be supportive, constructive criticism. If it doesn't land that way, I apologize for my clumsy expression.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Just to be fair to Matt Ward I had to do the filming without him in order to fit in with the availability of the guests on this video, so everything in recording audio or visual is my fault. In fact if Matt managed to cover up all the other cock ups I made in his editing then he deserves a medal. However I'm happy to take on board and implement all you say, although to be honest I didn't understand a lot of it. Just send the cash and I'll be delighted to employ an audio technician for every shoot. 😎👌

[@iMertin]

I’m a Falkirk lad. Looks like a just missed you in gmouth

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

What a belting night that was

[@kirkmorrison6131]

Bonnie Prince Charlie, should have secured Scotland, and considered the views of the Clans attitude, he lost a lot of his army before Culloden as some wanted to stay in Scotland and didn't want to fight in England

[@Szyq003]

I wish with all my heart that I could afford to contribute to your channel. It is amazing I love absolutely fantastic. I have recommended it to so many of my family and though I cannot provide financial support I’m here in spirit.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Guid lass. You are providing support

[@Colonel_Pinecone]

Was Biggar once called Begger? I would love to know! 😀

[@AquariusNation777]

Love it information

[@coryhirsh4119]

When charlie marched into England, the Hanoverians had their hands full on the continent. So to stay ,would've just given them more time to bring Troops in from Continent! Remember a double agent stymed Stuarts, false report of troops, when Charles could've just marched in! Another if of History!🤔

[@scottjock]

No one ever mentions the possible concern at the time of a catholic royalty getting back on the throne. Perhaps I'm wrong and I dont mean this in any biggoted way but why is it never mentioned? Perhaps because it wasn't an issue?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I think it came up in another of the three part series. To be fair most Jacobites were Protestant

[@johnberry3824]

Sometimes I can't hear what's being said for all the laughter.

[@johngarvin8888]

Ya Already Know Where The GOOD OLD BOYS ARE........... AMERICA ❤

[@ichabod0391]

Another great video Bruce .. But from what I have read and heard, they might have pushed it a bit too far and really thinned out their army a little too much. The British were well trained and organized.

[@johnfinister5011]

They were all British; it was a civil war for the British crown. As ever, no thought was given as to the interests of the ordinary citizens.

[@kevinwatkins2297]

Question. Is Calhoun a newer or related to a name of a Scottish clan?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYK0qqSAdruYftE

[@daverankin2246]

Long time ago I came across the suggestion that pragmatism would have seen a negotiated settlement essentially dissolving the union, but saving many of the mutual advantages that the union offered. The alternative would have been for the Redcoats to take the war into Scotland, where the Jacobites had home ground advantage and every reason to defend their prince. Even if Hanover won, it could well have been a Pyrrhic victory. Invading England deprived the Jacobites of their advantages and had little, if any, purpose for the clansmen. They got what they were fighting for when the Young Pretender succeeded in Scotland. Had the union dissolved, would the Scottish renaissance have been as impactful on the world?

[@jhk3john]

Went to see his stand up show in helenburgh last night .history comedy brilliant must see 😂

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Thanks John❤

[@theeldof2266]

Yer awesome me n ma partner canny wait tae see ye next week at Helensburgh 😊

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Brilliant

[@theeldof2266]

Well my dog needed the vet today so we are sadly missing ye now hopefully catch the next nearby show 🫠

[@williammorrison5678]

Great Great job.

[@davyjones1335]

wasn't there like 6-7000 irish wild geese from France not meant to go over? but couldn't because of the navy? theres always what ifs in history

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

That'll be covered in another video

[@rebeccamd7903]

I’m very familiar with 1745 & Jacobites! It’s the reason my 8th great grandfather was put to death and how his daughter ended up in America. I say they did what was necessary and I probably wouldn’t have changed it had I been there.

[@alanpatterson8207]

Not another American with famous ancestor why aren't they related tae wee jock the shepherd who got chucked out for rustling

[@theGhostofRoberttheBruce]

@@alanpatterson8207 Jealous much? I prefer living in a country that actually appreciates our contributions and doesn't pass Disarming Acts.

[@alanpatterson8207]

@@theGhostofRoberttheBruce why do you Americans (if that is what you are) always, always decide that they are related to some well known Scot instead of being content to be an ancestor of wee jock the shepherd but no, you lot are like that infamous yank Trump who in his narc mind is "king of the world" and THAT is why the native Scots detest,hate and abhor the "toom tabards" that waltz across here for a 2 week vacation and pontificate about how hard your ancestors life was when you don't know a thing about living in Scotland today apart from what you see on the TV or read in the MSM and regarding the "acts" you are waffling about,please name them so we can have a chat or are you too cowardly to do that. Read up on the acts and rules of Charles 1 and 2 and James 2 of Great Britain and how it affected ordinary people before spouting crap about The Roman Catholic church

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

Thank you.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

You're welcome!

[@wolfhunterv1]

Would you tell a story about clan Pentland? Loads of questions

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I'd have to learn something about them first

[@TheMagicLemur]

Thanks for an interesting discussion. Would be also (slightly less) interesting to ask what would happen of the Jacobites hadn't stopped in Derby...? 🤔

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

You don't think we only filmed one video do you?😜

[@TheMagicLemur]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours Lol - don't forget to visit the Pennines 😉

[@douglascharnley8249]

As I said in your Falkirk video, coulda, woulda, shoulda might be good for talking about over a pint, but the actuality is what we have to live with.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

We were talking over a pint

[@darrenboyd2491]

Should be taught in schools this more interesting and brilliant watch

[@paulmaceachern9265]

The most popular place to eat and drink in Sydney Nova Scotia is called the Bonnie Prince . Where most of the population is of Jacobite ancestry .

[@petermacleod2402]

I noticed the mantel had the date 1699. Check out Guinness W.R oldest pirate 1699 William Kidd born in Dundee. Could be a good story?. My Goodness My Guinness.!

[@colinp2238]

Hi Bruce. It's interesting to think about what if, but remember that we would probably not be here if it was the case. Having said that, what if the Scots hadn't turned back at Derby and went on to take London? Perhaps my dad would have stayed in Inverness, and I'd have been born north of the border (if there was a border).

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

We also filmed a video asking What if the Jacobites didn't turn back at Derby. One of the things that's been really frustrating about this video though is the extent to which folk have confused Jacobitism and Scottishness

[@colinp2238]

@ScotlandHistoryTours Yes I think I did watch it. The line is clouded by our romantic visions of the past.

[@AdamosDad]

I was told this is why our lands were taken away. Clan Kieth.

[@MugRuith]

"I'm not making a case"...proceeds to make a case. Great discussion. I'll be visiting Scotland for the first time in my life. I live in California. Going this September so I'm brushing up on my Scottish history

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Brilliant

[@johnberry3824]

Have you ever read Charlie Stross's Merchant Princes novels? In one of his alternate worlds, the Jacobites refrain from invading England. A couple of other major divergences happen, and you end up with a New British Empire based in North America and a French occupation of the British Isles. Likely? Who knows. But it's a fascinating what-if.

[@eddiepattisonhogg9917]

did the Jacko's wear socks and who darned them, did they have repair kits to mend holes, and did they wear brown Swade shoes.

[@lukebailey3308]

The Jacobites were predominantly black !!, transported to the Caribbean islands ,as prisoners of war !!! fact!!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

If it were true I'd certainly have covered it

[@lukebailey3308]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours maybe it’s just a rumour, but the sources I believe credible and ever increasing especially concerning the descriptions of the people transported, also today, talking to my 83-year-old West Indian neighbour. He informed me that is grand parents told him ,there grandparents said they came from Scotland. His last name is McLeod , it also stems from the fact that the Stewards were black, I know 🙄😂but the actual meaning of the word is black . Anyway, sorry to bug you but I feel I owe it to my ancestors . Read John Mackey and English spy, who detailed description of the Royal Court ,and the Jacobites, rebels (thank you) for your patience !!!!!

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

@@lukebailey3308 It's BOLLOCKS. It's so frustrating to hear folk push this pish that I see on my channel every week from someone or other talking nonsense. As a Scottish African if there was any credibility to this I'd be talking about it.

[@lukebailey3308]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours bollocks😂😂 rasta, righteous !!😂 don’t give me that middle class I’ve read lots of books , so therefore there’s nothing I don’t know😤 .We only know what we’ve been shown ,or told . Unless you’re privy to some divine existential information. Bollocks 😂just cool nu man ,read John Mackey and drink a Guinness , can’t have objective reasoning when your in your feelings ….. bollocks he said 😆

[@Wee_Langside]

There's a whole lot of what ifs that follow on. The War of Austrian Succession involving France and Britain on opposing sides didn't finish until 1748. Would France have aided a Jacobite Scotland to keep English armies in Britain? Then The Seven Years War a few years later 1756 to 1763 also Britain and France on opposite sides. But as a result France ceded a lot of territory in North America to Britain and Spain. Scottish regiments fought for Britain eg 42nd Highland Division. Jacobite Scotland would have been very problematic for England in 18th and 19th century wars. 1776 - 1783 could have been really interesting.

[@YahuconanBell5344]

Well Bruce if William Bell didn't get in trouble and get shipped out of Liverpool I might be a British Chap right about now. It was time for the American experiment. Many of my cousins and grandparents made it out alive. Grandpa McCoy, Bell, Lewis and Walker. You guys got it ok so far so good.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Aye, sorry you had to downgrade. Never mind we are what we are😜

[@YahuconanBell5344]

I recently retired and finally moved back home. I'll be back soon..

[@Slydeil]

As Charles Edward Stuart and the Jacobites objective was to take the British Throne from the Hanoverians there is no point in putting such a scenario. Charlie had no intention of settling for Scotland.

[@tomtaylor6163]

If they had stayed it would have changed the course of history. We might never have had the Bay City Rollers and Sheena Easton. But I do own Murray’s book on Culloden

[@GordonDonaldson-v1c]

Single events - what ifs - never change the course of history in the long term. Sure, some things would be different in the short term, but then the second order consequentials set in. Just as the Beatles put in an appearance in Robert Harris' Fatherland (where the Nazis won the War), we would still end up with the Bay City Rollers and Sheena Easton just the same. By the way, I have Murray's book on Culloden as well.

[@tomtaylor6163]

@@GordonDonaldson-v1cI’m just kidding around. But if it wasn’t for Sheena Easton I never would have been glad to be Scottish

[@GordonDonaldson-v1c]

@@tomtaylor6163 The Bay City Rollers had the opposite effect on me!

[@joemcaleer3521]

The commentary was a bit muddled with not a lot of detail.

[@spudbeans22]

we havent all left brucey boy

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

😜

[@stlouisix3]

I am a Scottish Catholic Jacobite❤❤❤

[@stlouisix3]

Having said that, I don't support the descendants of Bonnie Prince Charlie because they don't even claim the throne any more, and they are hæretics.

[@nevarmaor]

Charlie was seeking to recover the family right to the Throne of England for his father. The Scot supporters were a means to that end.

[@moragmckay3779]

The throne of Britain. But it should never have been one throne in the first place. James sold Scotland doon the watter.

[@harrybruijs2614]

In the country I live in we say, if the sky falls down, we all have a bleu hat.

[@jaycee6996]

The question for me is what would have happened to the Covenanters if the Jacobites had been able to consolidate their power in Scotland? My late wife's ancestor was murdered in front of his wife and children by not-so-bonny Dundee for the crime of preaching his religion. Given the appalling treatment of the Covenanters by the Jacobites including the killing of thousands what would the Jacobites have done in a Scotland without restraint?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

This channel has sought to cover the atrocities on both side of this divide

[@paulmcdermott4336]

During the great debate over Union or no Union prior to the Act being passed in 1707 there were considerable collaboration between Covenanters and Jacobites both being opposed to this Union. Although Covenanters did see Jacobites as 'papists and backsliders'....they were more afraid of being ruled by the Church of England and still held bitter feelings about this since the time of the Bishops Wars and the Wars of the Confederacy in the 1600s

[@rebeccacorbin1590]

The Jacobites moved to America....just look at our Constitution 🙂.

[@samsmith6594]

The US Declaration of Independence ows a debt to the Scottish Declaration of Arbroath, as well.

[@stacyreedy7109]

I know some of the Jacobites moved to Eastern PA . I was at a historical site, and they were explaining who was in the area at this time. It was very interesting.

[@theGhostofRoberttheBruce]

@@samsmith6594 Correct.

[@roddjohnson5378]

I’m a descendent of those Jacobites over here in the US.

[@iainmcculloch5807]

I've never been a fan of counter-factual history, but that was still an interesting discussion.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

It's a route to delving into the real thing

[@Highlander1432]

Is Bruce Inglis a common name in Scotland ?

[@sharenerobertson5574]

No they didn't go away, just leave or completely wipped out of existence, nor were the picts. The rebels who fought ,against the redcoats were rounded up enslaved, imprisoned sold and forced into the city's slums,workhouses and service others were exiled from Scotland to the new world to work on plantations after the clearances. The ancestors off these people are still alive in Scotland today, still feeling the effects of the suffering held by our ancestors still being discriminated against on the daily🎉

[@slydermartin6008]

Excellent! But......in the end the "agreement" is always...."It's Complicated".

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Of course

[@shrubby-ov4yw]

They both make pretty solid points. Had the Jacobites stayed put, they'd have solidified their base in Scotland a lot more, but ultimately would have suffered financially against the Hannovarian English regime. Its also not incorrect to say coming south was a risky move that fell on its arse hard and fast. What would have come about if they had succeeded and drove further south into England? Well thats a question only one man could answer: the Duke of Cumberland. Could he have had a larger army waiting when Bonnie Prince Charlie finally came further south or would he have a smaller one reduced thanks to seeing off the earlier Jacobite incursions? Regardless, there would still have been retaliation from it. The only way that would have stopped would have been Charles winning back the throne

[@northernwildcamper1593]

The right outcome was achieved, although at tragic cost at Culloden. ( I smile when redcoats are referred to as English, there were more Scots fighting for George than Charles).The pretenders were catholic, this was never going to be accepted by most people either side of the border and as history showed whether Charles I or later Stuarts, caused much controversy and caused more opposition. Stuarts never had a good relationship with parliament or Kirk either, so maybe a Stuart reign would not last long.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I’d like to think they could’ve made a decent stand, since other countries with less money and manpower pushed-off the British Empire later on. But I must admit in the context of the 1700s it would’ve probably been pretty decisive…

[@pjmoseley243]

Some of these Jacobites may have stayed deserted and stayed in England. Who knows?

[@greatboniwanker]

" ...Why are you pointing at me!" 😂😂😂

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Aye😜

[@stevenleslie8557]

I have to admit seeing and hearing a Scottish person who is black (or mixed) is a little strange, but you definitely are authentic and i love your accent!

[@jackdubz4247]

This kind of thing just makes me all the more determined to see an independent Scotland as a republic. Dabbling in monarchy has been nothing but a waste of time for Scotland. When James Stuart buggered off down to England in 1603 we should have shut the doors on him and his heirs, be they Stuart/Savoy/Este/Wittelsbach or Hanover/Saxe-Coburg-Gotha/Windsor.

[@KyIeMcCIeIIan]

Lets play a game! It's called "Guess what century my Scottish clans roster started!" Something tells me most of you can guess.

[@briangraham3329]

You have 28,000 people thinking the jacobites were white. With all the evidence in the world you are not looking at the facts. My French dutch family left from the land of the gauls celts and Frank's in 1626. We lived in New Amsterdam with the celts and jocobites in New Amsterdam 1664 when king James son took over the Duke of york, I have the original history and records of these people and they were not white. Plus when the Stewart family came to America to Virginia they were classified as swarty . His family was know brown on them boats. I'm from Allentown Pennsylvania in America. I challenge all scholars 2500 $ debate. Winners takes the money. There will be judges that we both can pic and we can find a platform to debate on unbiased. If not let .e teach you the truth that you can find for your self. I hope you know black people lived on all parts of the earth before white people. There is not one case of white people going any were that people didn't live for thousands of years. You act like Scotland was all white. We left Scotland and France by the thousands. And there was not that many people on the 1600eds

[@tomabbott5259]

Definately should have stayed in Scotland but, the prince would have had his work cut out controlling the feuding Clans...

[@TheStreetad]

If the Jacobites hadn't gone south, the Hannoverians would have come north, probably well before they had subdued resistance in Scotland itself. There is even less chance of the Hannoverian government tolerating a rival, Catholic claimant getting secure on the British mainland than of James (or many of the non-Scots that followed him) being satisfied with only one of the three Kingdoms of 'his birthright'. It has to be all or nothing for both sides.

[@alansmithee8831]

A'reyt Bruce. As a "no nonsense" English northerner, that short shrift given to the Jacobites' prospects was in essence why I like the Scots. The industrious ones that fill Ibrox provided many an engineer to keep our dark satanic mills churning out cloth to stick on ships their pals built and sell across the world. It was not the City of London that kept the cogs turning. I get the alienation from that, but there are still a lot of English and Welsh folk who see themselves as British working class as a common defence, with a shared history that has nothing to do with dead kings. There were English Jacobites too. It is said that "Oh, come all ye faithful" was a song secretly meant as a rallying call for them.

[@alicemilne1444]

I might have agreed with you except for that daft anachronistic comment about Ibrox. By the time Ibrox was built (1899) the age of sail was just about over, and the 1745 rising occurred 150+ years before that. No need to invent some spurious connection that never existed.

[@alansmithee8831]

@@alicemilne1444 I just threw it in there for reference to the statement in the video. I would not have mentioned it, being English.

[@anthonyharris7780]

What if The Normans had not contested the English Crown and Harold had remained king. The ruling class would have remained Saxon. Amazingly 70% of the land at least in England is still owned by ancestors of William the conqueror. The language would be different to begin with. The relatively new country of England would have developed differently. It was the Normans that conquered wales and Ireland. With your expertise what do you think?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I think that’s a question for the guy who runs England History Tours

[@sasapetrovic1084]

Yes they should

[@LindaGuy-yg6ju]

My husband family left scotland for fear of being killed. They were jacobites. They settled in georgia. They were a large clan.

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

Aye changed days eh? Nowadays I'm wary of goign to America for fear of being killed

[@theGhostofRoberttheBruce]

@@ScotlandHistoryTours Yeahhh cause it's so terrible here...I wouldn't leave SC and the liberty we have here for the Stone of Scone and the keys to the kingdom. Want me to list all my ancestors that died for that godforsaken island full of ignorant and ungrateful fools?

[@ScotlandHistoryTours]

I think we all feel safer for you being there😜