What If The Normans LOST The Battle of Hastings? | The World Would NOT Speak English Today

[@chadrowe8452]

Hastings. Back when the politicians were on the battlefield with you when they decided you had to risk YOUR life.

[@davecannabis]

yeah that should be brought back i think , might be a few fewer wars then

[@andyman2583]

​@davecannabis There are already fewer wars now. Ask any expert and they'll tell you we are living in the most peaceful part of civilized history. Obviously, what's going on in Ukraine, Gaza and elsewhere is terrible, but the world, as a whole, has never been more peaceful.

[@sumdude4281]

No signs of Putin out on the front lines let alone the actual battle field that's for sure.

[@Leon-bc8hm]

@@davecannabis Especially if they have to bring their family with them. Instead of sending your kids for their ambition.

[@elliotlane3225]

Professor Bartlett has written some excellent seminal books on the Normans, and back in the day a BBC documentary series. Well worth a read/viewing.

[@sundaynight1987]

That Normans documentary he did is great viewing. Still got the DVD of it.

[@jillhargrave-george4510]

@@elliotlane3225 The Norman's were Scandinavian William was a descendant of Rollo the viking..!

[@welshtoro3256]

Absolutely, he's a superb mediaevalist and his latest book has just been released. By the way, his superb series about the Normans is still available on DVD.

[@wheatnblue2419]

Excellent series. The episode about the Fitzgeralds was the best.

[@welshtoro3256]

Excellent program and very well hosted by James. Robert Bartlett and Chris Parry are on top form.

[@TheLucanicLord]

Without a royal family straddling the channel there'd be no hundred years war. If England had fallen into a Scandinavian orbit and been embroiled there perhaps there's no British Empire and no USA. Robert Bartlett did a great mini series on the Normans.

[@DanBeech-ht7sw]

But the king of England at that time ruled a larger, richer country than the king of France and would have been head of the dynasty people sought to marry into. So it's entirely likely that the intermarriage would still have taken place. And the "straddling" would still have happened. Furthermore, had William been killed at Hastings it's possible that a reverse conquest might have taken place into the Norman power vacuum

[@jcoker423]

Michael Wood reckons Britain would have been unified earlier.

[@DanBeech-ht7sw]

@@jcoker423 interesting thought.

[@danyoutube7491]

I really like Robert Bartlett, I remember him from that series years ago.

[@vanmust]

Exactly.....but even then distances were not so great to be covered on horse back (or a tiny boat) so I am afraid that in all versions of alternative history a maritime nation would have gone over (Vikings actually did) and the Americas would have been inhabited by others non Native Americans and you would have USSA -USCA-USJA -USRA (United States of Scandinavian- Spanish -Chinese-Japanese-Russian America) Bering straight and Aleutian islands easy to cross and Greenland and Iceland relatively near.....now US has all these nationalities living there already but the percentages would have been different

[@fraseraitken1837]

professor Bartlett is the superb on anything medieval, especially the norman conquest

[@Alex-ej4wm]

This show has a history channel circa 1999 vibe. You know, before the aliens took it over. Good stuff! I mean the history on here not the aliens🤦‍♂️

[@flashgordon6670]

What if the History channel wasn’t invaded by Aliens?

[@erichodge567]

This show's premise is a great "what if", but I think I've got an even better one: had Catherine of Aragon been able to give birth to a live son for Henry VIII, the whole English-speaking world would likely have remained Catholic, with all the political and cultural consequences that would entail. The history of the West would be entirely different. It all came down to a live birth that did not occur.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

Doubt it. Scotland went full Protestant and their English-speaking. In fact, Henry's own family, through his sister marriage to the Scottish King, eventually turned Scotland Protestant. The Anglican Church and Protestant Reformation pushed liberal changes that eventually gave birth to liberalism.

[@EddieDrayton]

very good one!

[@oliverdesvaux]

BRAVO to the PRESENTER!! Excellent chairing of a difficult but fascinating discussion

[@stephenarbon2227]

The Breton cavalry was led by Alan the Red, son of Edo, who came with William the Conqueror in his conquest of England. A few years earlier, William had given military support to Edo, allowing the family to gain control of [Eastern] Brittany. 
Edo returned the favour, by sending his 5 younger sons, along with men & equipment. There are medieval records which lay claim to show that that Edo was descended from ‘Goar’, leader of the ‘Alans’ in East Brittany in the 5th century AD. 

The Bretons, almost uniquely for the 11th century, fought from horseback [rather than dismounting] and used the ‘feigned retreat’ as a favoured battle tactic; both also features of the Alan/Sarmatians of 500 years earlier. This ‘feigned retreat’ was used in the Battle by the Bretons and was recorded somewhat disparagingly in the contemporary reports, but succeeded in drawing out the English from their defensive wall of shields. William evidently held these Bretons in high regard, as collectively, he rewarded them with about 20% of the available land in England, and by the Domesday, Alan the Red was the wealthiest man living in England.

[@_ob200]

That’s honestly fascinating ! Often the Bretons get overlooked in mainstream telling of the battle. I’ll definetly reasirch more of that

[@Dadopŕsoblueboots]

Bretons from the channel Islands are totally different. From Jersey 🇯🇪 to Guernsey 🇬🇬

[@flashgordon6670]

All I ever heard in reference to the Norman cavalry, is them being called French. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Did Alan the red’s household, marry into the royal dynasties of England, France and others? Why was he called Alan the red, hair colour presumably? My ancestor Baron Hamilton was at the Battle. He went on to Scotland and became the Bar-Hamilton clan/household. I don’t anything else about him, do you? I believe that he was of French and part Arabian descent. But I have no evidence that confirms his origin.

[@stephenarbon2227]

@@flashgordon6670 William the Conqueror was related to Edo thru marriage and apparently as as a [distant] nephew.

[@Colonel_Blimp]

A most interesting thought. Maybe some of the Bretons were settling old scores going back centuries.

[@joemoyes06]

This was incredibly interesting. The insight from Dr Parry and Prof Bartlett was highly appreciated, and very well hosted too. I only wish it could have been a longer discussion!

[@HontasFarmer80]

Very good. I'd say it matters for world history for a lot of reasons. For one thing EVERYONE involved in the history of Britain after that would've been different. Certainly the US, Canada, India etc would be utterly different places. What is good about this version of an alternate history show is that it grounds the audience in the real history.

[@flashgordon6670]

Not really, the French and Normans would’ve come back again with a bigger army. They were backed by the pope.

[@neilgodwin6531]

It certainly mattered for my family's history. Of course, I wouldn't be here in that timeline

[@vanmust]

I have a slightly different opinion......you see the whole planet is relatively small and getting smaller as technology advances so apart from individual ambitions life for the common people would be very much the same regardless of the rulers...the only real ruler who can change life is Nature itself and it does now with alarming speed

[@jeffreyharris3440]

As a priest he's not allowed to shed blood, "So he has an enormous wooden club which he is using because you can break someone's skull or break a leg without shedding someone's blood". As one does. You know, as a Christian, I wonder why people try to spend so much time getting around one's stated beliefs in loopholes. I don't know if God will see much difference in breaking someone's skull open with a club or stabbing them in the chest with a sword. I think God sees quite a difference between defending your family in your home with your back literally against the wall to fight off a home invader, or travelling to another country with an army of men to make sure that your half-brother becomes king of an island you've never been to before. But, since I'm no theologian, perhaps I just can't tell the difference between a metal weapon or a wooden weapon in the eyes of God.

[@gozza7199]

Classic religious doublespeak.

[@FrithonaHrududu02127]

I get the feeling it's about finding a way to maintain both power bases, rather than real belief.

[@johnpowell9174]

Wales mentioned as not being such a focus for the attention of the aristocracy but it's worth imagining the counterfactual Ireland. For me, the biggest effect (the switch of English from inflected to analytical language isn't a big deal) is the dissociation of the higher ranks from the rest; this apartness is still with us.

[@DeltaDemon1]

I clicked on this vid because you answered the question in the title. This is great because now I don't have to wade through the whole vid to get the answer and, if the answer intrigues me, then I can choose to watch the rest of the vid. Keep it up. Always answer the question in the title or very early in the vid.

[@angkari7244]

for some reason i love their maps, cant enough of that classic aged look like in study books. the retro spotlight effect and pointy sticks are perfect. aaah nostalgia

[@calvanoni5443]

Good stuff, thanks Gents!

[@rogerstone3068]

I have always felt that a significant comment on what the Norman occupation was like in the early years after 1066 is where the castles were being built: London, Rochester, Canterbury, Dover. Whilst the conquest of the rest of the country continued, they also found it advisable to expend huge resources on having a defensible route back to Dover. Odo, William's brother, was installed in Kent. "I've got your back, bro." (At least until he became over-ambitious and needed to be removed.) They were clearly not confident of being able to make the conquest stick. They also imported senior clergy to do the hearts-and-minds religious reinforcement, God is on our side: from Bec in Normandy, Lanfranc and then Anselm as Archbishops of Canterbury, and Anselm's bosom-buddy Gundulf to Rochester. None of them sent north to York, where Eadmer continued until a Norman was transplanted from Bayeux.

[@davebradshaw2537]

Very interesting, but rewind a bit - what would have happened if King Alfred hadn't beaten back the Danes? England is a Saxon construct, if the Danelaw had spread to all of "England" would we now be speaking a form of Norse?

[@johnpowell9174]

The north of England (and parts of Scotland) have inherited a strong cultural (and minor linguistic) heritage from Scandinavia.

[@colinglen4505]

A form of Danish, not Norse.

[@flashgordon6670]

Great question.

[@dalerobinson8051]

See my comment of Oct 2.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

The Anglo-Saxons, who actually called themselves Englisc, already spoke a similar language to the Norse speakers. Old English is Proto-German like Norse. Infact, the Jutes came from Denmark!

[@WildlifeOutlaw1066]

You guys started by acknowledging the change in the coast line (quite refreshing as most miss this crucial fact) then immediately revert to the old untrue English heritage version of events. The Norman’s landed at bulverhythe a separate peninsula - the greater area was called pevensey not just the little village it is now - and the battle was fought at crowhurst where the old stone wall and old tree (depicted in the tapestry) still are today along with the first attempt at building the abbey. I love this show but as a hastonian I feel some elements are trivialised about this battle where as others get the proper scrutiny they all deserve. Again love the show in general 😂 🎉❤

[@FiveLiver]

The Crowhurst location is compelling. Everyone should be aware of it.

[@WildlifeOutlaw1066]

@@FiveLiver if you get an ordinance survey map and plot the ancient coast line you’ll see the perfect landing spot that has a valley running north straight to crowhurst - to get to the sight of the abbey they’d of had to traverse swamps and dense forests - I could go on and on ahahah

[@flashgordon6670]

The battle was at Senlac Hill, at a town cunningly called Battle. I’ve been there about 100 times.

[@jcoker423]

Interesting, thanks when I visit England...... there's a good podcast British History Podcast. I didn't realise just how brutal the Normans were.

[@flashgordon6670]

The Normans were Christianised Vikings from Norway.

[@stevethomas5849]

My first History Lesson back in the Mid 70s. Been loving it ever since. Thanks for very interesting take on the subject.

[@jamesbottomley2596]

I've always wondered if the Normans had fifth columnists and agents operating 'behind the lines' in England before and during the invasion, perhaps undermining English confidence, putting holes in English ships in London, etc. William was a very effective strategist and it's not hard to picture his people arranging such things.

[@KnawedOne]

Very well done. Enjoyed the presentations enormously, thank you

[@MB-oc1nw]

If the Normans had lost I probably would not be here in 2024 as a Molyneux from Lancashire

[@suffern63]

Is that not a Hugenot name?

[@MB-oc1nw]

@@suffern63 The Lancashire Molyneux family arrived with Duke William according to the family history and what I've read. I do have some Huguenot ancestry on my mothers side from the 17th century with a woman from France who married into the family in the 17th century in Kent. The family were from Brittany. I can't remember the surname

[@suffern63]

@@MB-oc1nw Thanks,interesting to know that.

[@adders45]

Go home Norm

[@neilgodwin6531]

Give me back my land! 😂

[@ZiggyBoon]

What a fun conversation & video!

[@a.d.clarke4990]

Another possibility is that Harold simply survives until nightfall. More men were arriving. The English navy would eventually have cut off the Norman fleet too.

[@wiretamer5710]

My two bob worth… The Normans would have kept trying, because England was the only way to become a regional power without provoking the other major French nobles. The political inertia behind the Norman desire to control England was far greater the person ambitions of William and his immediate family. The key to the political expansion of England and northern France, was the unification of both territories under a strong feudal leader. With the benefit of hindsight, the French kings were not up to the challenge of controlling England. Whoever controlled France had their hands full keeping France under control, because the French nobility were too powerful. On the other hand a united kingdom as we understand the concept today, had proved an elusive dream for the Saxons, and without control of both sides of the channel, The British Isles were too small to build a regional power in isolation. Even a strong English King did not have the economic power to maintain a comprehensive defence of Britain’s shores.

[@badcarlos551]

I've always wondered what England would've looked like had Harold Hadrada defeated Godwinson at Stamford Bridge

[@frankrosati6403]

First question - would Hadrada and William have fought - win take all - or would they have divided the country?

[@roberthudson3386]

@@frankrosati6403 Division of England is possible since Hardrada is said to have demanded, prior to invasion, "a piece of [Harold Godwinson's] kingdom, to which Godwinson is said to have replied "I will give him six full feet of English soil, or seven, since they say he is a tall man." England had long been divided between a Saxon south and a north more aligned with the Scandinavians since the days of the Great Heathen Army. Of course whether William would agree to such terms is unclear. Hardrada might have been happy enough to do a deal, but would a man as ruthlessly ambitious as William, I am not so sure.

[@frankrosati6403]

@@roberthudson3386 It would, in great part, depend on what the remaining Saxons decided to do - support Hardrada or Willliam or fight against both? It's all speculation but I've always wondered by the Alternate History buffs usually posit Harold Goswinson winning. It would be interesting to look at the possibilities if Hardrada was part of the scenarios.

[@roberthudson3386]

@@frankrosati6403 Hardrada had arguably the weakest claim and certainly the weakest army of the three. The only thing going for him might have been more cultural acceptance from the Anglo-Saxons - but given that he would have likely killed their king (Harold Godwinson) it's hard to see them being thrilled with having him reigning over them. In my view had the Saxons lost the battle of Stamford Bridge they may have tried to continue the fight against both, which may have led to an agreement between Harald and William.

[@badcarlos551]

@@frankrosati6403 Something else to think about is what the Welsh, Scottish and remaining Brythonic people in Cumbria/Dumphries would do. Take it as an opportunity to defeat their Saxon enemies or recognise an, arguably, bigger threat coming from the continent.

[@rexracernj7696]

Great, informative discussion! Covered so many points of inquiry. Now, question for medievalists in the audience here, please: given that the Normans were "Norsemen" who'd only conquered coastal France circa 900, how did they become so thoroughly assimilated into French language & culture that they brought a French governing language as part of their conquest of England rather than some remnant Scandinavian language?

[@kulio1214]

I fall asleep to Chris in these videos every night

[@denyseleonard240]

How would we not speak English? The Normans spoke French. The only difference would be a lesser influence of French on the English language.

[@JackChurchill101]

I'm willing to bet they talk about it in the video... But as I am just starting, I'll add: because it created the conditions of consolidation and outward expansion?

[@darkfuture3291]

Wonderful. Thank you:)

[@shengyi1701]

And i though the only Stamford Bridge was Chelsea FC’s home stadium. I learnt something new!

[@a.d.clarke4990]

As I’m sure both of your experts know, that’s NOT what England looked like back then. Importantly for this subject the southern coastline looked different. William had landed in Pevensey and he was occupying what was a peninsula at the time. Harold was attempting to contain him there so the Normans couldn’t break out into more open country.

[@stephencrompton4352]

They addressed that in the video.

[@a.d.clarke4990]

@@stephencrompton4352 I'm referring to the map they used. It's inaccurate to the terrain. The terrain is an important factor.

[@kevincasey5035]

Pevensey was an island not much bigger than the old Roman fort. Hastings - where William quickly moved to, was a peninsula.

[@neilog747]

Interesting to hear the historian call Old English a "vernacular". This description comes across as an English cultural cringe, which is there as a direct result of the Norman Conquest, and yet this is the 21st century! Of course, Old English was not merely a vernacular - it was the language of the state.

[@craigtitus1928]

History undone, about the American Revolution would be interesting

[@jcoker423]

Tax dodgers !

[@philip013]

Think; Canada.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

One point overlooked is that much of Scotland was Anglo Saxon, and Gaelic Scots took the Kingdom of Northumberland a few decades earlier. Almost certainly, the Anglo Saxons would have taken back Anglo Saxon lands in Edinburgh, etc.

[@engineere2865]

I sometimes wonder how Harold could have defeated that french butcher. Having spent time in normanady he would had a deep understanding of the norman use of calvary. So if he could have arrived at the battlefield earlier it would have helped to set some traps. From about 150 yards out back to Harolds line dig hundreds of 4ft deep 4ft wide covered with turf trenches. This would have certainly disrupted a Norman charge at full speed. Many horses would have broken legs and bring down the riders possibly killing many.

[@longstreet2740]

Very Insightful

[@kecpassmann7441]

This was brilliant!

[@deodfnehsyfoysp48377gogogoch]

Yes, but what about the British empire? Founded as it was on naval power, I could not imagine it developing anything like the same under the Saxons and world history might then have been very different. Nice video 😊

[@stephencrompton4352]

The Anglo-Saxons themselves were expert seafarers. It's not unreasonable to think we still might have had a naval empire had the Norman invasion failed.

[@Hugh-nr5sx]

Odd how history repeats itself sometimes in obscure ways as well. Almost as if the Norman invasion and subsequent conquest was a sort of Lebensraum of its day and yet overarching since the flooding of Doggerland, this island has curiously always had a transient population to a greater or lesser extent..

[@jcoker423]

V few Norman genes in the current UK population. Most are descended from the Beaker people, followed by German Anglo Saxons, fewer from first farmers and almost no one from the hunter gatherers

[@KKTR3]

This guy did some dark history programs I’ve always been Looking for him on KZbin

[@johnfisk811]

It would have been nice to have had more reference to Edgar Atheling being acclaimed by the Witan which was the official making of an English king so he suceeeded Harold Godwinson as King and was only later replaced by William. It would be, perhaps, even more interesting to consider what of Harold Sigurdsson had won the Battle of Stamford Bridge and had to deal with William afterwards. England was already very much an Anglo-Danish/Norwegian culture.

[@HvdHaghen]

Strange. Maybe it's like the fish doesn't see the water. If you meet the English, one of the first things you notice is that they identify and behave as belonging to one of two classes. You could say there is a middle class, but the best way to understand this is to see it as common people who try to speak and behave as upper class in the hope to be respected as being one of them. This is different from the rest of Northern Europe. I think this is caused by England being ruled by invaders. For them the common people were the enemy. This has happened many times in English history: The Celts, the Romans, the Anglo Saxons, the Normans/French. The descendants of those invaders being the upper class was based on not being part of the common people.

[@roystonowl1]

Can we claim reparations from France?

[@Fredders88]

Check out Prof Bartlett's Normans 3 part TV. documentary series if you haven't already - very good.

[@stephfoxwell4620]

The Normans were hugely successful all over Europe. If they lost at Hastings they'd have been back with five or ten years, stronger and better prepared.

[@Userfriendly1977]

The feigned retreat was something the Normans must have inherited from their ancestors the Vikings. The Vikings often used this tactic when they fought battles in the earlier centuries.

[@Descroix]

And it is more likely than the Sarmates 6 centuries before?

[@raymondporter2094]

Excellent video.

[@TheSonsofFalstaff]

I am surprised you did not mention the two Norman castles built prior to the invasion of 1066. Richard's Castle and Ewyas Harold.

[@flashgordon6670]

What are you talking about?

[@TheSonsofFalstaff]

@@flashgordon6670 Look up Richard's Castle and Ewyas Harold and you will see that they were built prior to 1066. I just thought they might have been mentioned.

[@flashgordon6670]

Richard and Ewuas who? Which castles are you talking about?

[@TheSonsofFalstaff]

@@flashgordon6670 Have you got nothing better to do? If you were at all interested in the subject then you'd look it up. Your next message will be deleted without reading.

[@flashgordon6670]

You obviously don’t have the faintest idea what you’re drivelling about.

[@Somewhat-Evil]

Did Edward the Confessor even have the right under Anglo-Saxon law to choose his own successor? As far as I know the Anglo-Saxon Witan, a council of prominent ealdormen, thegns, and bishops, chose the next king from the extended royal family when a King had no direct heir.

[@flashgordon6670]

I thought Harold was Edward’s cousin. But I don’t know for sure.

[@neilgodwin6531]

I understand that the Godwin family was one of the most powerful in the country. I think that gave them a significant voice

[@jcoker423]

@@neilgodwin6531 Harold Godwinson's Grand-pappy was a Surrey pirate. From there they became trusted Jarls under Knut. A very impressive family, although Tostig was a bit of a cnut. They were v powerful. British History Podcast. The narravtor might be a Septic Tank (it's their history too) but I find it excellent.

[@kevinharrison5009]

​@flashgordon6670 Harold was Edwards brother in law.

[@jcoker423]

@@kevinharrison5009 A reluctant marriage, hence the nickname. Was it his sister or daughter that married the Confessor?

[@albert2395]

We're being invaded now!😢

[@neilgodwin6531]

Russian Reform bots invading every bl**dy conversation on KZbin and it's getting extremely tedious

[@bfc3057]

Chelsea fans were defeated at Stanford Bridge

[@dupplinmuir113]

This is a nonsensical argument. England would eventually have conquered Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, and would inevitably have been drawn into conflicts on the Continent, so the idea that England would remain a kind of backwater is laughable. Obviously history would be different in some details, but on a large scale things would be pretty similar to OTL. In fact, given that the Normans were pretty incompetent, England would probably do relatively better without their input. I think some fools are desperate to find something - anything - that can be credited to the Normans. It used to be they'd give credit for Common Law, Parliament, etc to the invaders, but that's all been shown to be totally false. Eventually the Norman sycophants were reduced to claiming that they introduced cavalry to England, but again we know that's false; just because the English dismounted at Hastings because they were so heavily outnumbered, does not mean that they couldn't fight on horseback. In 1066 England was the most politically-advanced and sophisticated country in Europe, but the Normans wrecked all that. It was already heading down the road towards a constitutional monarchy, though it did have quite a way to go. The Normans set England back by several centuries, and you could argue that it wasn't until 1688 that it got back to where it had been before Hastings.

[@flashgordon6670]

Most likely, a massive French Norman army would’ve conquered England later on. They were backed by the pope.

[@jcoker423]

Michael Wood has made the same argument. You only have to look at the 'conquest' - brutal conquest - of England to see the same template for Ireland, Wales and Scotland. The British History Podcast looks into the lack of showing of Edwin & Morcar and why Harold recklessly choose to take on William rather than wait for reinforcements.

[@philipdurling1964]

Well said.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

Much of Scotland was already Anglo Saxon via the Kingdom of Northumbira

[@falcon642]

If Harold wins at Hastings, then the 100 years war doesnt happen or is dramatically different

[@flashgordon6670]

We can but speculate. He would’ve acquired a lot of lovely armour, weapons, horses and ships though. Plus a lot of the Normans would’ve surrendered and then most likely became vassals and paid ransoms and regular tributes.! Then Harold and his successors, would’ve had a lot of options. I wonder who was most likely to be Harold’s successor?

[@philiprufus4427]

Don't be so sure 'The Normans were Not French,they took Normandy from Them. In fact Williams father having defeated the French forces sent against him,left many opponents alive on the battlefield minus their limbs. Nice Guy by the sounds of it. The Normans are descended from Danes,Dutch and Germans,part of what The Romans called Batavians, Roman Auxiliaries

[@welshtoro3256]

I'd advise anyone to get Robert Bartlett's book 'England under the Norman and Angevin Kings' published by Oxford University Press if interested in this subject. Indeed, all his books are excellent and he's just released his latest.

[@NSBarnett]

Why did the Norsemen/Normans adopt French when they conquered Normandy, but not adopt the Anglo-Saxon language of England after 1066?

[@kincaidwolf5184]

The Normans already adopted Frankish/early French generations before. From 1066-14th century, the elite are Anglo-Normans, which is significantly different from English, which eventually comes about. The Normans were a conquering people ruiling through genocide and oppression. They held considerable lands in France.

[@juanzulu1318]

One thing is for sure: Both Harold and Wiliam were badass dudes.

[@suffern63]

I saw 1066: A Year to Conquer England on the BBC,so,was Robert de Beaumont black?I have a simple rule,if Dan Snow is in it,don't watch.

[@HaakonOdinsson]

He’s just following orders

[@colinglen4505]

Apparently he has said that he told his daughters that female pilots fought in the Battle of Britain.

[@suffern63]

@@HaakonOdinsson that has never been an excuse

[@suffern63]

@@colinglen4505 and no doubt a few trans pilots,too,the first of the few

[@HaakonOdinsson]

@@suffern63 no sorry, wasn’t meant to be an excuse for him, just stating he’s taking orders. I don’t watch tv, I know who he is, but he is woke. I prefer Starkey

[@Urlocallordandsavior]

Can you do something about Indian history? Fascinating stuff.

[@flashgordon6670]

Do you mean Indian as in India the country? Or Indian the native Americans?

[@PETER-c4n]

I guess I would still be living in Bayeux or Falaise and speaking French. How the future destiny can hinge on a few hours of one day. Quite a thought!

[@peterharrington8709]

Love this stuff.... but 75% of the video is a discussion of the background to the invasion, the battle itself and the lead up to the battle. Not much time left for discussion of the ramifications that the title alludes to.

[@rollthetape88]

no mention of the Anglo-Saxon Witan choosing the successor...

[@flashgordon6670]

Wasn’t Harold Edward’s cousin and so lawfully an heir?

[@Alexx93753]

@@flashgordon6670 yes and he was also a descendent of King Aethelstan, Alfred The Great's brother, so Harold was indeed as legitimate as it gets.

[@martinwarner1178]

The class system is so strong in the UK, BECAUSE of the invasion. Now that's a interesting debate. What you say? Peace and goodwill.

[@All2Meme]

What would English history be if the Spanish Armada had invaded and conquered England in 1588?

[@TheLucanicLord]

The crossbeam would go out askew on the treadle.

[@Dadopŕsoblueboots]

We would have had a different. Royal family

[@markwillies7666]

​@@Dadopŕsoblueboots you wud all be speaking with a kind of a lisp.

[@alecblunden8615]

2:03 Given the disastrous Spanish planning, that would never haver been possible. The Amanda could not rendezvous with Parma's Army through the shallows off the Dutch coast.

[@johnanita9251]

You would have been a staunch catholic now.

[@davidcleasby1831]

I'm very surprised you didn't discuss the repercussions if William had not been delayed by bad weather and instead Harold Hadrada had invaded first...would Harold G have beaten William first but due to depleted forces lost to Harold Hadrada?...Britain would have had it's Viking influence dominate again?...Yes if course we wouldn't have had the possible future of a different future not linked to France

[@jcoker423]

That would have been good!

[@PMMagro]

Three sieds claimed the English throne 1066. Could obvioulsy have been very different if one of the other two took/kept it. The Normans getting into power was the biggest change of teh three for sure

[@kevinharrison5009]

It was disastrous for the English people. The Norman's were extremely harsh and greedy.

[@CAP198462]

One small problem. The battlefield is not universally agreed upon. Battle Abbey was built where it is for architectural reasons, not exactly historical reasons. They should’ve mentioned that.

[@JackChurchill101]

I always wondered about that. Particularly as the abbey hill was long since terraced, and the road has changed direction, and the swamps have been drained and trees cut. How do we know where the battle really was, outside of the declaration that the abbey was built on the site. Seeing as historical accuracy is a modern concern, it's possible that the "site" was only roughly near the abbey, or within eye-line of the tower.

[@CAP198462]

@ I have a source for you if you’re curious. Channel 4 Time Team Season 20: 1066 The lost battlefield. Searching for time team Hastings will bring up the video.

[@taiko666]

It should be "What if the Normans HAD lost the Battle of Hastings?"

[@a.d.clarke4990]

3:53 technically five claimants as Swein Estrithson also claimed the English throne.

[@FrithonaHrududu02127]

They probably wouldn't call it the Norman Conquest I guess.

[@stoobydootoo4098]

If things were different they wouldn't be the same.

[@angussmith903]

the normans were FRENCH speakers and they enslaved the native Saxon English speakers! I doubt we would have the class system or monarchy today if not for the Normans and their terrible feudal system. The worst thing to happen to England was the Norman conquest and their subsequent invasions of Wales, Scotland and Ireland (who the English get blamed for) but in truth but was at the Norman and later Angevin's who had this empirical mindset which many large European nations had.

[@Pugggle]

Actually @angussmith903 - Norman's- "northmen" - came from Scandinavian viking countries. Saxons were germanic speaking peoples from Germany sort of area, as did the angles.

[@angussmith903]

@@Pugggle that maybe, but the normans were french speakers

[@ahorsewithnoname773]

@@Pugggle The Normans get their name from the Norse but that was about the extent of it. The first generation of Norse to settle in Normandy largely intermarried with the native Franks, including William's ancestor, Rollo. Additionally the Norse settlement was mainy concentrated in certain regions like Rouen and on the whole did not displace the native Franks, who remained the overwhelming majority of "Normans." In effect it was not too different from the Norman conquest of England. The aristocracy had a changeover but otherwise life mostly marched on for the native majority. By the time you get to Hastings the Normans had long since become culturally French and the average "Norman" who crossed the channel with William probably had as much or more Frankish ancestry than Norse. They also refer to themselves as Franks at times.

[@lizzy-wx4rx]

It's amazing that not only does the host not know which side spoke (Old) English, but the entire production team settled on this howler of a title! And hardly anyone is commenting on it!! Surreal.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

Actually, Scotland managed to take the Kingdom of Northumbria a few decades earlier and the lowlands were Anglo Saxons. Almost certainly the Anglo Saxons would have tried to retake their lands in modern day Scotland. The Normans didn't care about the Anflo Saxons in Edinburgh etc.

[@Trecesolotienesdos]

How can you know thre would be no British Empire? The British Empire only existed as it rivalled the Spanish Empire, which in turn started from the Columbus mission that found the Americas. It's a stretch to say that any butterfly effect would affect this. Columbus himself was inspired to explore by the voyages of Prince Henry of Portugal, and the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople making trading east to China more difficult.

[@tkm238-d4r]

A big question was that if the existing Anglo-Saxon regime remained, how would the later Kingdom of England be like? How much of the rise of the English colonialism and the British Empire in 1607 could be attributed to 1066?

[@flashgordon6670]

We probably would’ve been invaded later on, by a far larger Franco Norman army.

[@jcoker423]

The Scots, Irish & Welsh joined in the British Empire.

[@lindafarnes486]

English, being the language of the people of England, we might still be speaking English. It would just be a different form of English, because the roots would be different.

[@stevenbrown8857]

Expected more on the lack of the relationship with France. The claim to the french throne, the lands in France. No Hundreds year war ... more involvement with the nordic countries

[@MichaelDeutschman]

Looks like King Harold had little in the way of a reserve.

[@meeds7473]

The Battle of Hastings and the Norman Conquest ties England to France in so many ways -- it affects so many continental wars for centuries and ends up with, what becomes, Britain and France trying to outdo each other through colonialism and empire. So, perhaps there is no Anglosphere. Perhaps it's Spanish and Portuguese. Or perhaps England is able to work with Denmark and support the Vinland colony in North America long enough for it to become self-sustaining

[@cyclofeedubox8332]

If the battle was lost and William died, and if Britain wasn’t invaded by France later on and if the English had continued to project overlordship over the rest of Britain, who really knows what might have been… certainly the class system might look quite different indeed, to begin with

[@klyanadkmorr]

What if there never was an Ice Age..ooh

[@mark6809mm]

Brunanburh AD 937.

[@jcoker423]

You think it's on the Wirral ? More and more evidence. Hopefully detectorists will find evidence of Mons Graupius & Nectansmere

[@evillabrador1]

Because we didn’t hold that shield wall, I have to pay a lot of money to go hunting or fishing in my own country.

[@Spandau-Filet]

They forgot to mention when Petyr Baelish came with an army paid for by the most wealthy house. Historians posit that this turned the tide of the war for the throne.

[@BiglerSakura]

The invasion could end even faster, like the two failed Mongolian attempts to invade Japan, when typhoons came and sank the ships, and were nicknamed "Kamikaze" (Divine Wind) for protecting the land.

[@philgalpin9284]

My ancestors wouldn't have moved from Evreaux in 1086. And I wouldn't have moved back to France in 2010!

[@GeoChild]

Every time they mention global impact if Hastings went the other way there’s no mention of the British Empire? At most they say the Crusades would have happened and English would be different. Is the implication that the British Empire (i.e. why English is so prevalent worldwide) would have happened anyway? If this is the case they should have been explicit. They really should have included folks from the former colonies in this discussion. Otherwise, they are ignoring a big part of the impact of Hastings in a very convenient way IMO.

[@fintonmainz7845]

The Celts might, eventually, have somewhat civilized the Germanic tribes.

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

PS; as for the absurd conjecture that English as it is in THIS timeline may not in any event remain a "world language", it can be dispelled immediately just by pointing out that as the first language throughout the whole huge global Anglosphere, its future is in any case no more dependent merely on these islands current or future influence than the also global prominence of, say, Spanish, depends on that of modern Spain.

[@sea-saw2654]

I wonder if the Industrial Revolution would have happened when it did or at All ?

[@wiggles877]

I'm curious, Bartlett stated that England was worth 72000 lbs?(of gold presumably) or pounds?( as in modern Stirling). If it's gold that would make England worth roughly 2.8 billion at the current value of gold. Which seems more right to me but i'm not sure.

[@flashgordon6670]

£ didn’t exist back then, but gold has always existed.

[@wiggles877]

@@flashgordon6670 I understand that. What I was trying to discern was if he meant the same value as 72000 pnds stirling is today. Or, if he meant 72000 lbs of gold as it was valued in the middle ages.

[@flashgordon6670]

But the value of £ Stirling is always changing and inflating. So you actually don’t have a clue what you’re talking about do you? Don’t give up your day job son. One day you’ll make it as the chip fryer.

[@flashgordon6670]

£ Stirling is constantly fluctuating and changing with inflation. You obviously don’t have the faintest idea what you’re drivelling about.

[@wiggles877]

@@flashgordon6670 That's funny because you seem not to understand the question. I don't feel like arguing this out, particlularly since I'm only likely to get a response from someone who's in a twatty mood rather than an informative one.

[@newtronix]

How seriously does Robert Bartlett take himself!!

[@annbretagne2108]

Shoddy English titles: "What if the Normans HAD lost the battle...."

[@roberthudson3386]

You could have had a good debate between Prof Bartlett and Dr Parry, the middle man isn't needed in this.

[@jillhargrave-george4510]

More than likely, it would be more like a Scandinavian country, now!

[@MichaelDeutschman]

Or Germanic

[@alananthony7053]

I think you mean "if the Normans HAD lost..."

[@wheatnblue2419]

Great trivia question: where did the Battle of Hastings take place? Answer: Battle.

[@lifes-entertainment2484]

We live for combat

[@ColleenLlewis-xu5yk]

HAD failed. Get the tense right.

[@turmuthoer]

Not just Wales, I see little reason why the Anglo-Saxons would want to move into Ireland either.

[@flashgordon6670]

To civilise them.

[@turmuthoer]

@@flashgordon6670 Can't argue with that.

[@roberthudson3386]

@@turmuthoer Come on now, we can't have that kind of talk, it's the 21st century, a time of respect and brotherly love where racism has no place. KZbin will ban you if you keep up like that.

[@bfc3057]

The Normans would have just tried again in 1-2 years

[@squirepraggerstope3591]

"The world would not speak English today". ... Possibly not, but maybe only because modern English itself might be somewhat different in the alternative timeline and it could very well be the case that later politics and a centuries later English/British rise to global imperial hegemony anyway would have still led to that subtly different English language becoming the global Lingua Franca regardless.