What is a SABRE? Sword blades, hilts & fencing... Was I WRONG?

What is a sabre? Well that is a far more difficult question to answer than you might think, and it doesn't just come down to blade and hilt designs. It's a matter of culture and CONTEXT!
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#saber #fencing #sword

[@bobrobinson1576]

Simple fact is nowadays we're too obsessed with classifying swords.

[@Benjanuva]

How are you going to find and buy what you want if you can't define it?

[@morriganmhor5078]

Why classifying in biology and palaeontology is just normal from the 18th century, but with bladed (and other) weapons it is such a great problem?

[@Benjanuva]

@morriganmhor5078 I think it's because we're trying to make sense of 4,000 years of period weapon terminology, while paleontology classification is a relatively recent development. I am happy to hear rebuttals.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@Benjanuva Shamshir, Kilij, Karabela, Hussar Saber were all sabers in Poland all of them where used by everyone, including the Hussars. I will argue that the mentioned above are types of sabers, not different weapons even if they required more or less different techniques to get most of them.

[@DistractedChiroptera]

@@morriganmhor5078 and @Benjanuva Classification in biology and paleontology is not cut and dry either. There is no single definition of species that works for all life. The definition of species that you were probably taught in school, the biological species concept: organisms that can interbreed and produce viable fertile offspring are the same species, does not work for asexually reproducing organisms, nor can it be tested on extinct organisms. Even when it can apply, two populations can theoretically interbreed, but due to some other mechanism of separation (such as physical isolation), never do, and so have separate evolutionary trajectories. It does not really make sense to call those the same species anymore. Biologists have even observed, after environmental changes, what were once separate species begin to interbreed and become one species. Scientists have spent decades arguing over dozens of different species concepts, and while different concepts have different practical and theoretical strengths and weaknesses, none of them work perfectly. Ultimately, the problem of definition for species and for swords have the same cause. Evolutionary (whether biological or cultural) change is gradual and continuous, therefore any lines that we draw along that gradient are ultimately arbitrary. It's like a color gradient. Green eventually becomes blue, but there is no hard line where you can point out where exactly a teal-esque hue goes from being a green to being a blue.

[@HoJu1989]

To muddy the waters even more, the last Spanish fighting sword, the 1907-1918 Puerto Seguro model (both cavalry and infantry versions), is called "espada-sable", literally sword-sabre

[@scholagladiatoria]

Wow lol

[@taylor_green_9]

In Spanish, a sable (sabre) is an espada (sword) but not every espada is a sable. I hope this helps. Edit: the literal translation is sabre-sword, NOT sword-sabre. The grammatical order is the opposite in Spanish

[@taylor_green_9]

Oops, I hadn't realised you were a native Spanish speaker (I just saw your other comment). But my point still stands

[@HoJu1989]

@@taylor_green_9 The order of the factors etc. but yeah, you're right

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@scholagladiatoria Hear me out: we can agree that sabers came to Western Europe after it was already present for quite some time in Eastern Europe. In Polish a straight sword with hilt and everything like saber in different variants was always a "pałasz" after Hungarian "pallos" and not a saber and there was a clear dispute on which is better, which should be used and how they work differently. Already in XVIIth century Fredro argued we should use 'pałasz type saber' and Wacław Potocki blamed battlefield disasters solely on using sabers instead of straight blade swords. And Shamshir is totally a saber. We called it a saber, we extensively used it, Hussars would wear it before Hussar saber was developed etc. etc. For us, Shamshir is just a type of saber.

[@vlad3967]

The more you dive in into etymology and nomenclature of swords the more I Want you to do an episode about arms during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Blades like Szabla, Pałasz, Koncerz etc. Maybe a collab with some Polish Museum? Wawel Castle has a really nice armory!

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi Matt, my take on what is a sabre is this, since it is primarily a military matter, whatever I'd like to wear, say your 1882 which is quite a lovely sword, is going to be a sabre, when regulations ask for a sabre. "Parisi, is that a sabre you're wearing?" "Sir, yes sir! A straight one", but then, when regulations ask for a sword, then by all means the 1882 is becoming one. "Parisi, is that a dress sword you have there?" "Sir yes sir! It's straight and pointy, see?", "Looks very much what you were wearing yesterday in the field!" "No sir, that was a sabre, sir!".

[@titanscerw]

This ... exactly how you talk to your 2nd Lt being nosy about your blade style life choices! :] +][+

[@Petruhafication]

@scholagladiatoria I translated an 1847 fencing manual from "Tsarist Russian" to English (btw if you have any tips for how to publish the translated manual, please let me know) and the manual is divided by weapon, the sabre/saber and pallasch are divided into their own sections. So at least for the Guards of the Tsar in 1847 the sabre/saber was by definition a curved blade sword, while if the same hilt had a straight blade - then it would be a pallasch.

[@chrismorgan1336]

Try 'Fallen Rook Publishing' in Scotland. I have a couple of their translated manuals, the Klewang and Swedish sabre.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

Yup, that would be a distinction that dates back to XVI century Hungary and Poland and became a standard classification for the whole of Central-Eastern Europe.

[@HobieH3]

As a side note, many katana were later refitted with modern "sabre" hilts in the 19th and early 20th centuries and some early period English sources referred to them as 2-handed cutlasses. Is a cutlass a sabre? How about a dusack? And thanks for the spadroon vs Victorian sword comparison. Often wondered.

[@HoJu1989]

In Spanish we call cutlasses boarding sabres (or sometimes "alfanje" which is a catch-all term for curved short-ish swords)

[@andreas_rr]

As far as i know, a "katana with a sabre hilt" would be describing a Kyū-Guntō, which was in use from 1872 to 1934 and inspired by, well, french sabres, while still maintaining the typical japanese blade style. Also, i think, Guntōs are generally speaking quite short. i have a Shin-Guntō myself, which is pretty much halfway between a typical Katana and a typical Wakazashi, but i cant say how many were or weren't this length. However, it just makes sense to have shorter swords in an age of firearms since they weren't used that much anyways and shorter swords are less cumbersome and more useful in small rooms

[@renessanssimies384]

Funny. Shamshir is something that most finnish people would call just "sapeli". Which is same word than the "sabre". We just can not care less. Which tell that the naming the sword and saying "everybody-anybody who know something" is also something of a context. In our language "sapeli" is anything curved sword. (At least in common language.)

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

I believe that every Pole who is not an expert would also think that the shamshir is a saber.

[@roderic3261]

To add more chaos, I think that in many languages any curved sword from Islamic cultures is called a scimitar or equivalent term

[@duje44]

In Croatian, Perzijska sablja(Persian sabre)= Šamšir

[@hishamg]

In Arabic, all swords, whether they are a kilij (or kilic) or a shamshir or a straight sword (like the Sudanese kaskara or early Arab swords) are just called a “seyf”. Arabic does not distinguish between curved or straight swords. I read somewhere that the word seyf is derived from the Greek word “xiphos”, also meaning sword.

[@edward9674]

Heh. Just like in swedish. Sabel for any curved sword.

[@edi9892]

I would still refer to the Shamshir as a saber, just like the Kilij, many Chinese Dao, and obviously early European sabers. They were distinct in their use compared to contemporary swords. The fact that later sabres became lighter, more thrust centric and better protected and thus were used differently doesn't change the fact. It's just a shift in meaning.

[@bentrieschmann]

I'm of the same opinion. Especially considering many of Europeans early sabers were, from my understanding, based on swords like the shamsir.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

Yeah, Matt's last argument regarding the shamshir confused the hell out of me because I would too refer to the shamshir as sabre. I mean, out of all the weapons shown in the video it was most deserving of such a name.

[@adambielen8996]

@@bentrieschmann You are correct. The Turkish Kilij and Persian Shamshir were the direct inspiration for the Sabers (Szabla) made by the Hungarians and Polish.

[@bentrieschmann]

@@adambielen8996 Woot, I'm glad I remembered something!

[@Mcfiddlydiddly]

Apparently shamshirs and kilijs were scimitars, rather than sabres.

[@TheBaconWizard]

That 17th C "walloon" hilt sword is bloody lovely! And fascinating.

[@rasmusdwinger8275]

Recently i orderd the book "stockholm manual on sabre fencing 1893". I got it today. After flipping it through, i realized that all exercises are shown with a straight blade. Very surpricing for me, so i thougt i better do some reseatch on thos topic - some day. About 10 minutes after putting the book aside, i picked up my phone and saw, that you had just done a new video - on sabres with straigt blade. Very strange.

[@davookr1830]

In Poland we refer to any straight cutting-thrusting blade with a sabre or basket hilt as pałasz(pawash). Things like backsword, spadroon or basked-hilted sword are all just pałasz to us. Similary any curved blade design primary to cutting with single handed grip is sabre to us so scmitars, shamshirs are sabres for Poles.

[@theeddorian]

Honestly, as an American with Canadian and British ancestors one and two generations back, as a kid I was given to think that a sabre (saber) came with the cavalry and had a horse "attached." It wasn't the sword so much as the horse that made the difference.

[@Benjanuva]

And that's why we often will differentiate between a cavalry saber and an infantry saber. It's complicated.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

Cool impression. Yet, for example a Hussar Saber or a 'Polish Saber' was actually developed as a compromise between cavalry and infantry saber because for Hussars 1st it was the last resort weapon, 2nd, Hussars actually spent most battle time fighting as infantry although they were cavalry. A big part of Polish war art was the Tabor-fort or wagon fighting where we fought in defensive positions using wagons as field fortification and mobile fortress. We could wear the enemy off like this for weeks and during this time, Hussars were infrantry, and would only become cavalry for the final finish-them charge or for a counter charge. Also, since we still had knight system, there were almost exclusively noblemen in the army and little or no infantry, so when we had to assault a fortress, the Hussars would become infantry as well.

[@theeddorian]

@@Benjanuva Which was Matt's point, I believe. My great-great-grandfather was the bugler with the 13th Light Dragoons at Balaclava. So, I've come to the conclusion that the "horse" was attached to the weapon within family tradition, more than anything else. I also had the idea the blade was always curved, but as Matt points out, that's not true either. I know that my grandfather taught my dad a smattering of saber drill, and he, in turn, passed on a tiny bit to me. During that bit of play, I got my ideas about what a saber was. And it's still complicated.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@piotrmalewski8178 You make very bold claims thus I have to ask for the sources for these revelations. *"Yet, for example a Hussar Saber or a 'Polish Saber' was actually developed as a compromise between cavalry and infantry saber"* --- Hussar sabre is a very specific late type of a Polish Sabre. Thus I am confused about what are you trying to say here. Are you saying Polish sabres, in general, were developed as a compromise between cavalry and infantry sabres (which is absolutely not true)? Or are you saying that hussar sabres were developed as such a compromise? In that case, I would love to see sources for such a claim. *"1st it was the last resort weapon, 2nd, Hussars actually spent most battle time fighting as infantry although they were cavalry."* --- I can sort of agree with the first statement but absolutely not with the second. How did you come to the conclusion that hussars fought more on foot than on horseback? Pulling back all forces behind a wagon fort to defend it was more of a last resort rather than a standard tactic and was used primarily against Tatars. *"Also, since we still had knight system, there were almost exclusively noblemen in the army and little or no infantry, so when we had to assault a fortress, the Hussars would become infantry as well."* --- Oh Jesus there is a lot to unpack here. Primo, can you explain what the hell is a "knight system"? Are you referring to the companion system? If that's the case then why do you seem to imply that it is some kind of feudal levy? Secundo, can you provide examples of when hussars were used to storm fortifications? The only example I know was the Siege of Smolensk (1609-1611) when hussars literally refused to follow such an order. The job of storming fortification was usually left to the infantry and dismounted cossacks/pancerni.

[@johnfisk811]

And yet the British nomenclature for the horse based pointy sharp edged thing was, and is, a cavalry sword and it was made clear to me that it was not to be called a sabre but a sword and my Yeomanry predecessors took their swords to France in 1914 not sabres. Many were the older cut and thrust patterns not the single hand lance of the 1908 Pattern.

[@ramondulvur]

In Polish terminology, the shamshir is a type of szabla. It doesn't matter that it is used in a different way than a 19th century western sabre, as historically the Polish sabre was used quite differently.

[@user-ol5gn3bl8m]

En España, a los modelos "Puerto Seguro" se les denomina oficialmente "Espada - Sable" .

[@ShuajoX]

Yeah, I think trying to use sword/saber like jian/dao in English is filled with problems like the ones you mentioned. Great video!

[@d0r1an06]

I think this problem can't even start to be tackled without isolating the languages. It's already trouble enough that these words were used in such uneven fashion in the past, but whenever they do seem to have solidified, it's largely language- and culture-bound. You've just shown that the English and French ideas of sabre don't overlap very well; it gets worse as you head east. You show a shamshir, and say that no one would call that a sabre, but in Hungary and the Balkans, Turkish kilices and Persian shamshirs are still referred to today as szablya, sablja, &c. Only a real specialist would know the term kilic there. I assume it's the same in Poland and Russia too.

[@adambielen8996]

To be fair the Kilij and Shamshir are the direct inspiration for the Hungarian and Polish Szabla.

[@d0r1an06]

@@adambielen8996 I've heard competing theories of origin (and not just from various nationalists). The Hungarians do seem to have contributed something to the form. There also might be a lot more influence from a range of steppe cultures than is often credited (so not just Anatolian Turks and Hungarians, but also Iranians, Tatars, Mongols, and other Turkic groups). Frankly, though, I have yet to read any definitive discussion of the origins of conventional curved sabre form and would love to see one. Experts always seem to come to the edge of that discussion and then shy away for lack of a definitive historical record or study, or simply to default to "curved swords have been around since ancient times". It would be a good project for an archaeologist and historian to tackle.

[@adambielen8996]

@@d0r1an06 Absolutely it would be an interesting study. But from what I've done the Saber pops up when the Hungarians and Poles were fighting the Ottomans after a long time of Europeans not using many strongly curved swords. But certainly Mongol swords might have also been an influence, the Crimean Tatars were still very active at that time.

[@Uryendel]

Actually they do overlap, that the same word, what doesn't is the comprehension of people who have associated the word with a single type of sword because of the media they consume

[@Tovalokodonc]

​@@adambielen8996 Nope, Sabres were already present with the Hungarian arrival in the 9th century

[@longyuanchuan]

In Chinese martial arts we have Dao and jian, sabre and sword, usually the Dao are curved and single edged, and jian are straight and double edged, even they have their own variations on the edge or the hand guard, but there's no point in arguing about what is what according to who 😂

[@FrothingFoulness]

I have a dao training sword and it feels like a medieval falchion or messer (German 1 handed single edged choppy sword)

[@sevenseas2673]

More accurately, a Dao is a single edge sword whether straight or curved, the oldest Dao tend to be straight, and Jian were any double edge sword, and you can say Daojian together as a word to refer to swords in general whether single or double edge.

[@kaoskronostyche9939]

Hmm? I'm not sure if I am more confused now or less confused. For my own mental clarity and stability, I shall restrict my mental model of sabres to include only those swords which are curved ... unless it is a curved sword which is not a sabre. Thank you very much, Matt, for another great presentation. Cheers!

[@robinmarks4771]

When I began both my HEMA journey and sword collecting journey years ago, the first antique sword I ever acquired was a 1913 Patton Cavalry "Saber". At the time, I was utterly annoyed by and averse to calling it a saber, but I too have come around to accepting that some straight-bladed swords can also be considered sabers. Having grown up in the US, though, I still spell it -er and not -re. :P

[@simonklein4687]

Hmm, but the what about the hungarian sabers, or the polish szabla batorówka? They don't fit too much with their hilts...

[@birdwatcherlubuski]

That was interesting, very informative indeed to learn that in Western European countries, you could (correctly) refer to a non-curved-bladed weapon as a sabre. It would have never been possible to call these things _szabla_ in Polish. We either use _pałasz_ or _szpada_ . But then again we call katana/tachi/wakizashi a Japanese sword, not a Japanese sabre, even though most PL bladed weaponry experts consider them technically as sabres, precisely because of their curved blades.

[@martinseliger]

Nice to see your enthusiasm. Great energy:)

[@althesmith]

I recently checked out edge angles on a cavalry sabre (19th c. prob), 1796 HC sword, 17th c. katana, 16th c. katana shortened and remounted as a wakisashi, and shinsakuto with a 75 cm blade made in 1977. The edge angles are remarkably close within a very few degrees- like 1-2 degrees or so. So worldwide, what tends to work is what gets made just about everywhere.

[@V3RTIGO222]

I believe that I've heard non-curved calvary/officer swords referred to as a 'straight sabres'

[@brianmincher716]

I’ve most certainly seen that same description

[@mitchell5163]

great video, and your major point is very sound in tracing the expanding and flexible use of the term sabre over time. Someone in the comments may have pointed this out, but the etymological origin of the word sabre comes directly through the Polish and Hungarian Szabla which, through the philological history of sound changes in those languages coming into western European languages, became sabre. The French and Italian terms for sabre were not co-existing and compting examples of the term szabla but derivations from it.

[@Tovalokodonc]

Polish "Szabla" came from Hungarian...

[@phillip0537]

As someone who does transmission work, lots of words have large areas of overlapping meaning, but then areas where they do not overlap. Seems the same here: lots of things that can be called a saber or something else, but there are boundaries to what can properly be a saber.

[@wiskadjak]

I've been reading up on Contre Pointe fencing and the manuals refer to the weapon used for this as an espadon. Contre Pointe is the method of riposting more often with a thrust than a cut. Confusion arises because a weapon can be called an espadon or a Sabre depending on how it is used. I think part of the problem is our modern mania for categorizing & standardization. People in the past were not as concerned about consistency, it being the bugbear of small minds and all. Who knows what they would have thought of us.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

I would never under any circumstances refer to those swords as sabers but I guess it comes down to your native language and the cultural and historical baggage that comes with it. As well as how precise is your language. I find that certain languages in certain areas tend to either use more general terms to describe things as opposed to other languages in which words have much more precise meaning.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

Not being an expert, I would call it "pałasz". This is what I would call almost any weapon that has a straight blade but a slightly more saber-style hilt.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

Well, in Poland we will never agree that straight sword with saber hilt is a saber because it's pałasz after Hungarian word 'pallos'. Plus the techniques of using the two are totally different.

[@MyFaithShines]

@@piotrmalewski8178 not totally different only a lil bit but as a Pole i agree - pałasz

[@sakesaurus]

palasz... We use this word generously

[@sakesaurus]

​@@Zbigniew_Nowaksame, and I'm not polish, I'm russian

[@rvcloud]

Totally ran into this same issue when designing the displays I make, how do you classify a saber as a saber, and still be able to communicate effectively which sort of saber you actually are talking about. Many modern military dress sabers are also straight, but could easily be classified as any number of other sword types that you mentioned throughout the video, but are known as sabers. In the end, I find it best to say straight saber when I mean straight saber, and curved saber if it's curved. Excellent discussion as always!

[@kevinstockwell2894]

I think, based on the examples you showed and the context given, swords designed specifically for military service became commonly referred to as sabers

[@brittakriep2938]

I, Brittas boyfriend, am german. In our weapons terminologie a saber is a Säbel (curved) , while a Degen is umbrella term for smallsword, spadroon, rapier, sport epee, duel epee. The heavy Cavallry sword, used by Cuirassiers, Dragoons, and ( in 18th century) also Gendarmes, is mostly called Pallasch. But by not so knowledge writers, also Haudegen ( hewing Degen) or Raufdegen ( brawling Degen) is used. Some notes: Years ago, I read , Nibelungen ' tale in a book where you could read the Text on one page in current german, and on next page in original , Middle High German '. Nearly Impossible to understand. In medieval days , Degen ' meant , Thegn' (!). And sometimes in german , Haudegen ' means no weapon, but a brave man, envolved in many fights.

[@dizzt19]

There might be something to this. Probably a modern approach, but rapier could be more civilian while sabre more military?

[@brittakriep2938]

@@dizzt19 : Mr. Easton very often and totally correct uses the word , context '. I , Brittas boyfriend, am german, so I have , no surprise, more knowledge about the Situation of my swabian Homeregion, than on Situation in non german countries. In my Homeregion after the great farmers revolt of 1525 the Farmers Had been punished in draconic Style and for centuries Had No right to own weapons. They only Had their their Tools, their short EDC knifes and may BE a cane. But noblemen and townsmen upperclass Had Access to weapons, fencing and pistol Training. So: Noblemen and to some degree rich townsmen Had the posssibilty to own weapons and train with them. In 18 th most german upperclass men prefered the smallsword, but some used largest Type of german hunting knives: Hirschfänger.

[@dredlord47]

The Saber is from around where Hungary is and they've been around since the 700 to 800s at least called a Tesak, according to Russ Mitchel. He mentions this in his video "The "evolution" of the Messer, Dussack, Sabre"

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

the word sabre comes from Hungarian szablya, which literally means a cutter and is the name of that weapon (szab means to cut). Must have spread with the hussars, huszár in Hungarian, meaning every 20th (man enrolled to fight the Turks). The shape of the sabre's blade comes from the Turks that the Hungarians mounted on a hybrid European/NearEastern type of hilt. Originally in Hungarian it could designate any kind of sword, a straight double-edged one too, but in the period of the wars with the Turks all Hungarian soldiers used an actual one-edged curved sword, so it went into the other languages as designating that weapon.

[@RobertFisher1969]

Another important point is that, even if you do strictly define a set of terms to differentiate different kinds of sword (for a specific purpose), there will always be a historical sword that will defy your classifications!

[@johnadney2782]

As usual, you did a great job of trying to explain a very confusing topic. Have a good one

[@kleinerprinz99]

What most people outside of linguistics dont know either ist that semantics is the first and quickest thing that changes in a language even over a relatively short period of time. And it changes a lot and derives a lot and you wouldnt believe some origins of meanings and sayings.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

1:05 - 'it's not a saber if it has a straight blade'. Well, I'd strongly argue for that opinion. In Poland we have a very clear distintion, first that a single handed sword with straight blade is 'Pałasz' from a Hungarian word 'Pallos', second, that Fredro, who was a soldier and great duelist, argued that to be effective on a battlefield Poles should use 'szabla typu pałaszowego' which translates as 'saber of pallas/sidesword type (with straight blade).' Next to nobody listened to him as we favoured curved sabers but there were always a few masters like Wacław Potocki who instisted on straight blade and there are even examples of both Karabela's and Hussar sabres' hilt and hanguard combined with straight blade. You can shoot me or whatever but I will insist that a straight blade sword that looks like a saber is not a saber but a pałasz. Same as Chinese will always say that Dao is Dao and Jian is Jian.

[@mutantpig4218]

Hello bratanek. A Hungarian here. Usually, when it comes to the Sabre and Pallos, Westerners have no idea. Most probably because they don't speak Polish or Hungarian at all. The "huszár" of an official noble banderium was usually equipped with three swords: - Szablya = Saber - Lóra való pallos = "Pallas for the horse", one handed, sabre hilt, straight blade. - Hegyestőr = "Pointy dagger", a long, rapier like sword with a triangle shaped cross section that could pierce chainmail. About the pallos: The pallos was also the weapon of the headsmen, given the local lord had the right (pallosjog) to take life. Interestingly, most of those swords had no points for thrusting. Some pallos were made huge and were used for ceremonial purposes. Honestly, I can't say whether it was meant to be straight bladed, because normally, the huge swords are referred as pallos. To make things more complicated, the Hungarian word used for "sword" is "kard", which means "dagger" in Persian.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@mutantpig4218 That's a very informative post, thank you! As for the word 'sword' in Polish it's 'miecz' originating from Goth word 'meki' meaning double-edged blade.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@mutantpig4218 That's a very informative post, thank you! As for the word 'sword' in Polish it's 'miecz' originating from Goth word 'meki' meaning double-edged blade.

[@PBHistoryandLaw]

Honestly, these kinds of videos are why Matt will always have my respect as a scholar and educator. 1.) He's willing to be wrong; and 2.) Demonstrates that taking a position on something is not a sucide pact. You can change based on new research and data. And, while I agree trying to classify all swords is like trying to classify the differences between a pebble, rock, and boulder, my gut just tells me to think of a sabre as a cut and thrust, with a blade slightly more optimized for cutting, with a particular hilt. We'll just call the others stabbers😂

[@AcoraZ3RO]

That post-mortuary hilt sword you showed off in this video is *gorgeous*, by the way.

[@robh5492]

12:45 "The naming of swords is a difficult matter..." I sense the beginings of a song from the upcoming Scholagladiatoria musical - Swords.

[@JAKesler]

Definitely like the saber hilt , but I like either the strait blade with sharpened back of the front 1/3rd or the double edge. I think the versatility of being able to do false edge cuts is amazing

[@incitatusrecordings473]

13:13 Hey Matt! I would like to know more about "Scimitars" what are the main diferences from that sword? Great video as always! Cheers!

[@atom8248]

Scimitar is derived from shamshir, it's an english word that was basically used to describe middle eastern curved swords as far as I know. There's quite a few "general" terms like this from back in the day, for example in old sources they call katana a cutlass or two handed saber

[@batteredwarrior]

Also strange is that the North American F-86 fighter was named "Sabre" and the F-100 was named "Super Sabre" with the conventional spelling. I always wondered why!

[@mitchell5163]

You mention how the napoleonic period brought the sabre to the fore in people's idea of military swords in western Europe, and it would be great to see you discuss John Gaspard Le Marchant, the British calvary general who designed the 1796 light cavalry sabre, wrote a manual for sabre combat that became widely read in Britain, and who had discussed sabre combat with his allied Austrian officers before he was involved in the adoption of a pallasch pattern for the 1796 heavy cavalry sword.

[@matthewvelo]

Disappointed that you didn't cover hand protection on a lightsabre :) Definitely a cut and thrust blade. Cheers Matt.

[@aldariontelcontar]

In Croatia, we call basically every curved blade a "saber". Except for katana, for... reasons. So basically all straight-blade "sabers" that you had shown here would be considered swords. Essentially: sword = sword saber = single-edged curved sword designed for horseback use katana = Japanese sword This is likely because "saber" is basically a foreign word in Croatian language... native term would be simply "curved sword". So yeah.

[@ivanharlokin]

Well said, although considering that "sablja" likely came from Hungarian, and the 800-year association between the Hungarian and Croatian crowns, the whole concept of native/foreign is a bit muddy. Pozdrav.

[@NotUnymous]

In German modern saber fancing we also have straight saber blades 🙂 that beeing said, it always striked me odd. Your explanation makes absolutey more sense.

[@szymi97]

I've read in an old Polish book, that some of the first sabres used in Poland were straight and also... double-edged. (Edit: I did think of palash, or pałasz (in Polish), when mentioning the straight blade) There's a word in Polish, pałaszować (pałasz +‎ -ować), which roughly means, transitively, 'to fill one's face; to eat something quickly and with pleasure'. Which refers to the way boars dig into the ground when looking for food, which is probably where the 'thrusting' in use of palashes comes from.

[@andreweden9405]

Personally, when it comes to those straight-bladed swords you showed, I would only use the word "saber/sabre" to refer to them with the word "military" in front of it. Otherwise, I think it can cause too much confusion. Hence, if someone were asking me about it, I would say "that particular type of sword is a military saber." The military really seems to be the only context where we refer to a straight-bladed sword like that as a saber.

[@MrTudorvidor]

Very interesting! According to Wikipedia (sorry) "The English sabre is recorded from the 1670s, as a direct loan from French, where the sabre is an alteration of sable, which was in turn loaned from German Säbel, Sabel in the 1630s. The German word is on record from the 15th century, loaned from Polish szabla, which was itself adopted from Hungarian szabla (14th century, later szablya)." I am Hungarian, and yes, Wiki is right. A "szablya" [pronounce: sab-ya] is a (mostly) cutting sword (edge on the frontal side only) with a slight curve, with any kind of hilt, used mostly by horsemen. The word comes from the verb "szab" meaning cut or crop into shape. Hungarian hussars (horsemen) always used this type of sword.

[@rez4958]

Matt, please make a video on the USMC Ka-Bar. I’d love to hear your take on it.

[@sergireig]

In Spain they use “Espada sable” for that straight blades. Literally “sabre sword”. For example the “Espada-sable Puerto Seguro”

[@Elduriil]

I love points like this. This point applies to most things in life but unfortunately people love to categorise everything too much.

[@jordicanals6246]

AFAIK, in french, sabre is a very broad category. It means whatever single-edged sword, regardless of the use, the period, the hilt, or the curve... a messer, a shamshir, a katana, a backsword, a hanger, a yatagan, are all type of sabre.

[@pe003]

Personally, I think I agree with you when I say, just use the term they used at the time and country of origin. The bug bear for me is the spadroon. We have a military directive that tells us exactly what a spadroon in and what historical and geographic context and yet spadrooners will constantly apply the term to Walloon hilts, or the 1808 French infantry saber. Yes it can be used in a similar way but no it's not a spadroon because that term belongs to a particularly context

[@thomasp.4649]

The sabre came to, was popular in western,northern,south Europe in the Napoleonic period through the use of light cavalry sabres by polish Ulan's, Hungarian/Balkan Husars and Cossacks . The word came from Hungary - szablya and Poland szabla to rest of Europe and was used there for curved bladed cut weapons. For me a straight bladed weapon is a sword or for cavalry a palasz/ pallasch and a curved a sabre, simple logic. Why so complicated ?🙂

[@camilstoenescu]

Interesting that in Romanian the word "sabie" (from sabre) usually means any sword, not necessarily a curved one.

[@Tovalokodonc]

Cool, no one cares about Romanian though

[@kleinerprinz99]

Etymologically I found out its slavic or hungarian and meant originally something like "to cut (into shape)" Came into German language sphere a bit earlier than english language sphere around 15th century. Cheers. Modern meaning with 'curved' cutting and thrusting light sword seems to be universal by now.

[@MH-gb5ky]

I support your theory that a saber is mainly defined by its cutting ability. The German word "Säbel" is a noun, and there also exists an appropriate verb "säbeln", which means a sort of cutting. It is often used for a kind of "unskilled way" of cutting . So "to cut" is "schneiden", but "säbeln" means "cut roughly" or "cut amateurishly".

[@Uryendel]

His theory is wrong, saber designate a single edge sword (he should have open a dictionary), french cavalry saber during the napoleon ear where thrusting sword, not cutting one

[@harrykouwen1426]

I learned early on from an uncle who had been in the army that a sabre (sabel in dutch, säbel german) is meant for cutting use in swordsmanship, and a degen (same word in german) is more for stabbing use and swordsmanship. A sword or broadsword is double edges for slashing. He had learned the military use right after ww2 being in cavalry troops, and guarding the royal family. He gave me (12 years old at the time...) his sabre when he started moving in with his future wife who hated weapons, and who clearly wore the pants in their relationship as they say here. My mother found the sabre under my bed unfortunately and didn't want a 12 year old me reënacting Errol Flynn and threw it in the bin, and me grounded for a week....

[@emmanueleustache179]

Being French, I must add that the term "sabre" may have a wider use in French, not only referring to 19th century european ones, but also to the way it is used (contre-pointe) ; for instance, the Shamshir in France would be classified as a type of sabre, just like the Katana. Not many swords are actually called swords ("épées") in French ; that term is usually reserved to very thrust-centric swords resembling smallswords, like the 1855 officer sword (or 1816, or 1845). For about everything else, you't use the word "sabre".

[@Uryendel]

That false, you've thrusting sword called saber, saber mean single edge

[@BuffordEvans]

First to say Thank you 🙏 another awesome vid Dam it I like That first sword I’ve always or rather learned to call the straight bladed sabers (side swords etc etc )estoc etc etc

[@johnnyjet3.1412]

And no mention of the Hungarian saber - and That Hilt

[@radivojevasiljevic3145]

To nitpick: shamshir you showed has different kind of curvature compared to sabers. It is part straight blade with curved half with smaller radius, while curved sabers are curved from guard to tip with much larger radius. Radius of curvature has joined the chat.

[@hvymax]

Curved blades are most notable for Cavalry allowing for point alignment while reaching down from a horse.

[@braddbradd5671]

Schola can you do something on Hittite weapons and Armour they have some unusual stuff

[@TheStugbit]

That's a great video and a very clear example of how History isn't a 100% objective matter nor hard science!! Congrats!

[@oldschooljeremy8124]

Most modern fencing sabres are curved...but horizontally. The blades come straight but almost every sabre fencer immediately puts a slight curve in them ( to say nothing of the curves that they get accidentally - more than a few people I know have what look like some sort of goblin blade with weird yataghan-esque bends in them, usually maraging blades which resist straightening once bent ). So I'm not sure I'd aver that "modern fencing sabres are straight".

[@twi3031]

From what I can tell, the word "sabre" is the result of word borrowing over and over across a variety of languages. The word as we understand it does come, ultimately, from Hungarian, and refers to the cavalry sword that was used by the Hussars. But there's a couple theories about that swords origins as well, which would suggest that the Hussars got the idea of a curved, single-edged cavalry sword from Turko-Mongolic warriors who fought against Chinese warriors in the 6th century CE. So I personally wouldn't actually consider the word "sabre" with regards to western European swords to be dependent on hilt type or on whether the blade is straight or curved, or single edged or double edged. To me, what makes it a sabre is that it's a cavalry sword that doesn't better fit under a different term. An interesting question is, would a zhanmadao be considered a sabre? It's English translation is "horse-cutting sabre", and it is a sword that is used from horseback.

[@mccormyke]

Next topics. Is this a Cutlass? cutlass's have the broad curved tip depicted so often in art? Did some British officers prefer the Cutlass over sabers or broad swords? Cutlass vs Rapier? Broadsword? Back sword? Saber? Pike? Musket with bayonet?

[@jurassiclobotomy4196]

We are once again beset by the mutually incompatible goals of coming up with a logically consistent and definitive system of classification to eliminate ambiguity and consistency with how historical artefacts would have been understood in their own time. My preference would be that a saber Must have some degree of curve in order to create a clear and consistent difference in the definitions of saber and backsword. But it is also clear that in-period people did not consider that terminological vague point worth clarifying or definitively differentiating. It is a quandary.

[@Neidzwiedz1]

To my mind it actually comes down to fencing style. Any blade you pick up and instinctively fence in a certain way then they should be grouped in the same clade. A saber is anything that is used in the same way, regardless of hilt or blade.

[@dizzt19]

I'd say that for example the off hand positions depend on the system - somewhere out of the way or poised for grapling... So depending on training or inclinations, people might use a rapier like a sabre, sabre like a dussack, dussack like a sabre... the personal bias seems quite big to me to be defining the weapon type. :)

[@tgjaedan]

Here in the west and as English has become the most used language in general we have essentially adopted other languages and time periods word for 'sword' and tried to make a category out of them. Ultimately, we have control over how we term things though. If we really want to classify swords it seems like a naming system of hilt style and blade style would make the most sense IMO. And recognize that we need to define terms and stop using historical sources that didn't worry about having to differentiate as a reference.

[@kyletenorio8541]

The reality is that there isn't an authority that transcends time and cultures to unify definitions of swords. Just use the name that best communicates your idea of the sword and hope it conjures the same idea others. Now thanks to Matt I know what a "sabre jappnaise"is. Pardon my french

[@shawnlowhorn5009]

Love swords but something iv been wondering. That is what sort of edc knives did they carry over the years? And did they use folding knives in mideivl times? If so what did they look like handle material and such.

[@kloudray]

Well we can't really accept arguments coming from a different language. Because we can categorize and group together the same items in different ways and choose different parameters to base our classification off of; those classifications may work differently in the terminology of different languages. For example, in Russian terminology, there is no such thing as a curved sword because swords are straight by definition, and sabre is seen as a distinct type of weapon. Equally, we can't just look at how this or that was called in period, modern terminology is made for the convenience of modern people, Matt mentioned many times that many different types of swords we now call different names were called just "sword" in period.

[@Andermani]

All hail the eternal Matt, who has been, is, and will continue to be! May our knowledge set continue to grow in context. Amen.

[@insane_troll]

A lot of it depends on whether the sword is light. Then it will often be called a sabre even though it is straight. Lightsabres are always straight, aren't they?

[@raphlvlogs271]

sabres is a really diverse group of swords thats why there are a lot of examples that can be considered both a sabre and a cutlass/ hanger/ backsword . . . . . . .

[@Uryendel]

Saber in french designate a (mostly) single edge sword, if you can handle the sword in only one way it's a saber. The definition of the french academy "Arme blanche dont la lame, longue et à un seul tranchant, est droite ou présente une courbure plus ou moins accentuée." that you can translate to: " Weapon who had a blade, long, with a single edge, which is straight or with a curvature more or less pronounced" Napoleon era cavalry saber who were primarily thrusting sword are saber (single edge) Katana are saber (single edge) Knife are not because they are short

[@sabrewolf89]

A one-handed, single-curved blade of at least 30cm with the primary cutting edge on the convex side. The shamshir absolutely qualifies as a saber. I remember seeing Japanese swords referred to as sabers in a 19th-century text.

[@michaelbates1640]

Do you have anything on really sharp letter openers?

[@Poohze01]

I've always thought the only sensible way to name a sword was binomial; you need to name the hilt-type & the blade-type. So, "basket hilted broadsword", "sabre hilted backsword", "cross hilted sabre", etc, etc.

[@RobG001]

Headache? yep, me to now, thanks Matt. :)

[@chrisroberts1440]

Makes me think of the difference between a falchion and messer can just be the type of hilt.

[@kissieljp]

Small fun (or not so fun?) fact: In polish definition of a sword states it needs to be double edged So sabres aren't swords, katana aren't too, and many others BUT often hussar sabres (curved blade) had sharpened back edge, until around third of the length from a tip down, which makes them a swords (?) But are called sabres I didn't ever hear anyone calling hussar sabres, or sabres at all as swords in Poland And that confusion I had when I moved first to the UK and hearing my definition was wrong here 😅

[@jesuizanmich]

In Spanish, I often use the term "sable" for a curved single-edged sword. But I decided to check online anyway, and the Wikipedia article for sabres appears to be confused too. Sure, Wikipedia isn't all that credible, but it's often good enough to get an understanding of popular or general use of terminology. The main article for sabre (sable) says "arma blanca curva y (generalmente) de un solo filo" (single-edged curved white arm). This is very general, but close to what I would say. But then they have another very specific term "sable europeo" (European sabre), which is apparently a single-handed single-edged straight sword. This article specifically lists two swords that they call "pallasch" as examples, and calls the longer two-edged heavy cavalry pallasch a "broad sword". The article continues to state that the basket-hilted scottish backsword is an example of a sabre, with a note about how certain sticks for stick fighting can be called sabres too. Amusingly, the Swiss sabre wouldn't fit this definition as it is two handed. So it seems that in Spanish, the term sabre covers essentially every single-handed mostly single-edged sword that may or may not have a false edge and may or may not be curved, and all two-handed curved swords. This mixes together hangers, backswords, schiavona, infantry and cavalry sabres, katanas, etc. It does kinda makes sense, because these are very similar objects that are primarily differentiated by a relatively subjective property of being curved. However, it does also make the term not very useful when talking about swords we tend to visually and conceptually think as different in English.

[@leonpeters-malone3054]

You forgot one there Matt. How we are? I mean, are we feeling happy? Sad? Confused? Tired? Are we in the mood to be talking swords? And to finalise with a mode of use argument? You're speaking my language.

[@djuzi4514]

In many other languages the equivalent word for sabre has become so ubiquitous that it is essentially used as the english word "sword".

[@bubbagump2341]

You should make a video about how in the time period they originate from the types of swords HEMA people call "longswords" were never referred to as "longswords" . . . lol

[@jonathanreed5360]

The sword used in a combat-martial art which gave each fighter an even 50/50 chance to get thunked in the head like in The Deluge.

[@LumberJAN]

In Russian we refer to any curved single edged one handed sword as a sabre (сабля, sablia). Including super-curved middle eastern stuff and even such bizzare things like Dao

[@MadNumForce]

Good! Now you just have a little bit left to do, and just like Gassendi, who devised the French An XI and An XIII systems, call a double edge artillery gladius a "sabre" too! The word "pallash" doesn't exist in French at all. A straight heavy cavalry saber can be colloquially referred to as "latte" (pronounced laht, not latey like Italian milk coffee).

[@morriganmhor5078]

Palas, i.e. saber (i.e. curved) hilt + straight heavy blade is not a saber by definition. Saber = curbed hilt + curved blade.

[@marcdesrochers1250]

Here is an other question....off topic, Do you have info on sword handles and the reason for their shapes?

[@OtharSmirnow]

I think that important point was that the name was popularized in the Napoleonic period. What was called sabre before? There are things now that are called the name of the first/most popular brand of the thing. Don't know English example, in German "tempos", in Polish "pampersy".

[@remowilliams8118]

I would personally believe that since an epee is a straight thrust centric sword it would only make sense to delegate a curved cut and thrust blade as a sabre. Definitions are important for understanding.

[@alexandersumarokov5901]

Hi, have you any "Shashka" in your collection?

[@-RONNIE]

Yeah it's like you said it's very subjective of the style and or time period

[@bigpete69420]

I'm asking this here since it's tangentially relevant. Is there any historical examples of spadroons with slightly curved blades, or any swords with curved blade in similar, double-shell knuckle bow hilts?

[@abencherif]

From ETYMONLINE :from Hungarian szablya "saber," literally "tool to cut with,"

[@morriganmhor5078]

Matt, please. Saber (curved blade + curved hilt) was used in Eastern Europe from the times of Avars migration (6th cent.) and that was enforced by Old Hungarians (9th cent.), Mongols (13th cent.) and Ottoman Turks (14th cent.). The Magyars used it probably from the 15th century. and the Polish and Russian from the 16th century. To the West, it came with Austro-Hungarian light cavalry and was imprinted with Poniatowski ulans (both with the revival of lances).

[@russmitchellmovement]

Unfortunately, "Matt, please" sums this one up, starting with the absolutely *ridiculous* assertion that the origin of the word sabre is somehow up for debate, or that the Napoleonic Wars ended in the late 1700s.

[@Tovalokodonc]

Nope, Magyars used it much earlier than