What is Determinism and Why The Whole Universe Has Already Happened

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Determinism is the philosophical movement that for every event, including human action, exist conditions that could cause no other event. "There are many determinisms, depending upon what pre-conditions are considered to be determinative of an event."[1] Deterministic theories throughout the history of philosophy have sprung from diverse and sometimes overlapping motives and considerations. Some forms of determinism can be empirically tested with ideas from physics and its philosophy. Opposing determinism is some kind of indeterminism (otherwise called nondeterminism). Determinism is often contrasted with free will and moral responsibility.[2]
Determinism often is taken to mean causal determinism, which in physics is known as cause-and-effect. It is the concept that events within a given paradigm are so causally bound that prior states of any object or event completely determine its later states. This meaning can be distinguished from other varieties of determinism mentioned below.
Other debates often concern the scope of determined systems, with some maintaining that the entire universe is a single determinate system and others identifying other more limited determinate systems (or multiverse). Numerous historical debates involve many philosophical positions and varieties of determinism, some concerning determinism and free will, technically denoted as compatibilistic (allowing the two to coexist) and incompatibilistic (denying their coexistence is a possibility).
Determinism should not be confused with self-determination of human actions by reasons, motives, and desires. Determinism rarely requires that perfect prediction be practically possible.
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[@efilwv1635]

I am a determinist. Randomness is just another word for predetermined events that we cannot predict.

[@xkai7546]

;o noice, let's be friends.

[@vincentaurelius2390]

Now that's enlightening. Great line.

[@lastride9159]

exactly. i have experiened this for real. gives me goosebumps.

[@stephenhogg6154]

Is that how you would 'explain' the random variations in DNA 'replication - 'events that we cannot predict'? In what sense is this 'an event'? There are causes for replication, but where are the causes for random 'misfire'?

[@lastride9159]

@@stephenhogg6154 well why dont you try to see the bigger picture.

[@benjaminwing7944]

The universe is like a record. All information exists at once on its surface but in order for it to be understood it needs to be played in a linear fashion. Time in our reality serves as the needle on the record translating the whole of the universe into a series of moment by moment events. Just in the same way you can’t perceive the entirety of an album on a record without the needle you can’t perceive the entirety of the universe without time. Time isn’t simply a measure of progressive moments, it’s an inconceivable “object” that acts on our universe in order for it to be understood. Just in the same way the needle is inconceivable to the music playing on the record. Moment by moment reality is a byproduct of exterior forces acting on a three dimensional slice of our universe. This is why the Big Bang appears to have just appeared from nothing when infact all that has really happened is the metaphorical needle touched the record and the universe at that moment was able to be perceived.

[@kindart2774]

This is the correct one. The start and the end of universe exist together.

[@baddoggie101]

Is one too many? Is two enough?

[@sebastiana.2358]

This is heavy.

[@johnorsomeone4609]

This was well articulated.

[@BubbleOfJelly]

I don’t know if I agree, but that was deep. I’ll ponder about it.

[@stevekennedy5380]

Randomness produces choices? I don't think so. Randomness produces random events, not free will choices.

[@thomasmeinhardt9793]

You are right +Steve Kennedy. Quantum fluctuations, if indeed random, would not logically suddenly mean that actions at our level are now chosen by our will. It's simply a change to, addition of, or subtraction of another factor in the deterministic world. It's the same as any other stimuli.

[@daroay]

You can use the randomness to take decisions. For example... if spin up eat an apple, if spin down eat an orange. Anyhow, whatever happens you decide to eat a banana. Thing is, there are different futures, hence the future is not written, hence there is "free will" to eat the apple, the banana or the orange... and change your future forever.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

er, randomness produces events, those events can be choices, flip a coin and make a choice - random.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@thomasmeinhardt9793 quantum randomness isn't free will though, if you make a choice based on a fork in quantum mechanics it's still a choice, just one you aren't controlling, and it's as far from free will as you can get.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@daroay but just like there is only one past (until we invent a timemachine) there is only one future - you just haven't witnessed it yet. but the one future means you could not have done otherwise in you choice. to have true free will you would have to play out your entire life to see what choices were bad, and of course you'd be doing that for eternity with each NEW universe you create. you have the illusion of free will, choose apple, choose orange, fool me and eat a banana, but basicalyy that's exactly the same as choosing the apple, isn't it?

[@mediacenterman8583]

Everything is predetermined. We delude ourselves with the illusion of free will, but even those outcomes were planned. If someone built a time machine and secretly filmed your future self for a day, and then sent you the footage after you had 'lived' that day, the footage would be identical because all of your decisions were planned and had already taken place.

[@iwilldi]

Predeterminism makes every statement nonsens of equal value. You could equally state that triangles definitely have 4 corners. The force is strong with this one.

[@MrMaximos13]

The universe determined the plane to fly above you whilst you are at the climax of your argument so people wouldnt understand and a revolution wouldnt start. One does not simply outsmart the universe.

[@Colesbaby1999]

This what I believe everything is already written and I’m just living it out

[@electroturi]

That plane was determined to fly by when he was talking about the randomness of quantum mechanics 🤷‍♂️

[@mr.eastcoastgrow6132]

This guys explaination is the best I’ve seen so far on the subject.

[@Kryptsanies]

No amount of randomness gives your free will. Do you control subatomic particles? When you want to go to the bathroom do you coordinate your quarks to go to certain areas to create certain interactions in atoms that create certain molecular structures that lead to certain neuronal firing patterns in certain locations in your cerebral cortex?

[@KamilsView]

Well, do I need to control all particles to have free will? I can go to the garden if I want, and I don't need to control particles for that, do I?

[@Kryptsanies]

Yes, because free will is incompatible with a deterministic universe. The reason I mentioned subatomic particles is because some people bring up the concept of quantum indeterminacy as evidence for free will. I am saying this makes no difference to the argument of free will being an illusion because we don't have conscious experience of any of these events (just like we don't have conscious awareness of insulin release). Even if you disregard that, what I am saying is that at all levels of reality that we know exists, you don't get free will. You can go to the garden but there is no 'you (i.e. a ghost in the machine)' that is doing the controlling. The brain is put through a series of decision rules based on inputs (which you have no control over) and it generates an output that leads to you going to the garden. Your 'want' to go to the garden arises from darkness in your conscious experience. People try to justify their actions as proof to their free will. For example, one might say: 'I went to the garden because I wanted to see the flowers I planted last week'. This is similar to neurosurgery patients that raise their arm when the surgeon (without the patient's knowledge) stimulates motor areas in the brain with an instrument and when asked why they raised their arm, they give a justification. But even if that justification were true as to why you went to the garden, you didn't control that either! You didn't pick your genes, you didn't put them through specific selection pressures to turn on and off and you had no control over prior events in the world leading up to your thoughts and actions. It is blatantly obvious that libertarian free will (touted mainly by religious people) is false. Now, the discussion between incompatablists and compatablists is to me merely one of semantics. I think compatbilists should (instead of focusing on semantics of what free will is) focus on the societal consequences of determinism because there are a lot of important things that will be influenced to the betterment of society with its acknowledgement.

[@KamilsView]

Hm... I get your point. Very interesting. And then again, it all comes down to the definition of free will. If I can think of free will as a concept, I can define it. And I can define it to fit the current reality in which there is not free will as such, but there is free will as defined by me (or someone else, for example, no specific definition yet). So there is free will and there isn't, depending on how we define free will. How about that?

[@Kryptsanies]

The free will that cannot exist in a deterministic universe is the concept of "could have done otherwise". In a deterministic universe you could not have done otherwise. The rest as I explained is semantics (i.e. arguing between a third person and a first person point of view of what free will is). Now looking over some of the rest of your content you seem to be into concepts of motivation, empowerment, meaning of life and improvement of self. If you think (I'm not saying that you do as I don't know your stance fully) conceding to the concept of free will being an illusion will negate this pursuit of becoming a better person and lead to a fatalism , then you are wrong. Our actions are still the outcome of the command we receive acted on by our biological mechanisms.Doing X will produce an outcome Y whether desired or undesired. Furthermore, it is a mistake of assuming two distinct entities between the deterministic universe (outside) controlling me (this inner system) instead of seeing it as a continuous entity. We are not just observers in this deterministic universe but also actors. Furthermore, things will unfold in a causal chain but we do not know the future so it will always be unknown. To explain any of these points in greater detail I would need to expand it into a large essay. Alas, there is minimal space and time.

[@KamilsView]

Hey. I really like what you're saying. My stance is that I really don't know which one is right, and most probably it's somewhere in between. In any case, I love this type of conversation - makes me think a lot. Ok, so I get it that probably I could not have done otherwise - it was predetermined. By I don't get this about personal development - it is all worthless/pointless?

[@firstnamelastname2552]

In Christian theology we have something called compatibilism. Compatibilism is the harmonization of God's will and man's will, or in other words it combines determinism with free will. God has decreed all things to occur according to His will, with no exceptions, but humans are able to make choices. All of our choices have been predetermined according to God's will, just as the entire existence of the universe has been predetermined. As theologian RC Sproul was fond of saying -- "There are no maverick molecules in God's universe."

[@noahway13]

There is no randomness with enough data and processing power. They built coin flipping machines that can predict heads or tails. We are just a collection of hormones, brain processing power and collection of past experiences, etc, that determine our actions.

[@KamilsView]

Have you got some more reliable info on those machines?

[@kirandhamane6442]

okay. tell me then in Schrodinger's cat experiment with enough information can you predict if the cat is dead or not ? that's exactly what happens with subatomic particles. the nature in its quantum level is probabilistic. \

[@chaostade4087]

i believe the same but Im very open to quantum physics.

[@ladymuck2]

JustKeith yeah but you don't have a personal choice in those things

[@dormroom9480]

I still haven't studied quantum physics so I have no other choice but to believe the Universe as Deterministic. Moreover I came up with the Idea that the universe must be deterministic a few years ago , since then I have tried explaining a lot of people, but I couldn't.

[@chaostade4087]

haha most of people won't get it.

[@adderon7476]

People get it in their own experience which has already happened

[@allenmorgan4309]

What you are saying is what physicists say. From a day to day perspective we make choices and we live with the consequences of our choices but in the big picture everything is predetermined and there is no autonomous self that chooses anything.

[@YoungColCol]

There is a much stronger rebuttal against the quantum argument for free will (not determinism, though). If it is true that there is randomness on some level, then there is necessarily no free will because we have no control over these random events. We have no choice in what the outcomes are.

[@KamilsView]

fred col That is an interesting idea. There could be some external agent that controls us, and maybe sometimes he lets us choose, but most of the time he controls us. Who knows!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@KamilsView this is why religion can't tolerate free will and will lie cheat and steal to keep it in people's heads, there is no one pulling the strings, we are not puupets, just robots of our own subconcsious.

[@Samdabeansa]

@@lewislewis939 😂

[@Samdabeansa]

@@lewislewis939 Fuckin Ell 🤣

[@ali09gaming58]

Everything has already happened and i mean time, the ball has already hit the ground. Like remember a memory from 10 years ago, that was your then "present". Look at now this is your present, but 10 years from now your present would be at that time. The thing is it all has already happened

[@We_Are_Borg_478]

I hate to quote a movie that only scratched the surface of time travel, but the butterfly effect worded it perfectly. "You can't change who someone is without destroying who they were." The father was preaching about changing events in the past, but what he was unknowingly preaching is predetermined events.

[@TheOmengod]

You can get on a rollercoaster over and over and experience the ride but it's always the same ride.

[@TheOmengod]

@Dmitri Kutsenov I would say so.

[@morrisonkey202]

MurphKey's Law (I'm Key 🙂) - "Anything that can happen, will happen again."

[@Gilgamesh369]

A clear way I like to explain it to people is: if time went back 20 years and then started back up the exact same things would occur. So what do you think will happen from now to 20 years into the future? I think they call it the golden path a.k.a. The yellow brick road. And when you come to this understanding you say ""ah, ah, ah,""(OZ) I have no idea who the ""they"are so don't ask.

[@KamilsView]

+dan reid How do you know?

[@kimyunmi452]

dan reid implication : no regret, no blaming other and myself for whatever happened in the past.

[@gum71freak]

Thank you for this video. Id like to hear your thoughts about deja vu? Throughout my life experience i have had snapshots of my life since i was a child. Recently, ive had many out of body experiences where i live an entire day or hour or minutes in which i know what is going to happen and i cannot change it. Like the film of my life is on the tape and im simply watching it happen through all my senses and have no free will to do anything differently, say something differently, etc. Except in my mind when i release myself from this human experience, which i would think is our human choice at a subatomic level. Ive always told myself it was meant to be and happen this way, but i find it frustrating that free will appears to be an illusion. Any thoughts? Thank you for reading.

[@KamilsView]

I can't explain it right now, but I think that we have a power to create anything, so if we get hung up on something (even without knowing), we will create circumstances that in one way or antoher are the response to our beliefs. But also, I have noticed, we can be occassionally influenced by some unknown forces that seem to take over our bodies and minds temporarily and steer us or help us steer in some direction. That's my take on it.

[@XxDualElitesxX]

Great video Kamil as always at your best, can you make a video on will power because I'm currently reading a book on how to increase it but it's not really helping

[@KamilsView]

Hey. Of course it's not helping you. Will power needs to be trained, but there must be context for it. Let me think about that.

[@dcrespin]

About determinism at atomic level read “Deconstruction of Quantum Wave Mechanics”.

[@pinkbagel69yearsago20]

Also I think the future has already happened and we're just living in the past.. Whatever we do, it is already written. Who knows?

[@gamislatte5470]

yes, determinism entails fatalism. we can not change the past because it has already happened, in a similar way, we can not change the future because it will happen. all things, at all times, are unavoidable. Read 'the story of Osmo" by Richard Taylor (1963).

[@pinkbagel69yearsago20]

@@gamislatte5470 that was pretty confusing but it made sense

[@dogarualexandru-stefan]

You are perfectly right. For example. In your present, you say anything can happen...but...2 hours from now, only some things have really happened. If you record it, you now exacly what happened 2 hours ago. Imagine yourself another 2 hours in the future, looking back 2 hours. And this proves that everything is determined. No free will.

[@TheWorldandTash]

I have a few ideas concerning the subject matter. The thing that attracted me to this video was the title, that everything in the universe has already happened. What if the moment the big bang occurred (or lets say the moment when the universe came into existence) all the events that would ever happen had already happened. Almost like a book that's been written and printed. I think the reason we may think we have free will and that we can conceive of the causal relations of the world, is all to do with our concept of time. Where one thing leads to another, events occur in a sequence that can be boxed by time, for example event A happened at 12pm and then event B happened at 1pm etc. But the only reason we think that event B happened after event A was because of time. In time event B came after event A. Therefore we assume that event A had a causal role in event B happening. Although what if this is just because as living organisms with our perceptual constraints, we perceive B following A because all the events in the universe have been slowed down, by our perceptual systems. What if every event that would occur in our lifetime has already happened, the book has already been made and printed. We are just the reader working our way through the sequence of events at a speed our perceptual systems can cope with, what if the idea of causation is really just a feature of our own perceptual system. For us to conceive of events all occurring at once is not within our capabilities. So this is one theory that even determinism this idea of one thing leading to another is made up by our own minds. What if in reality things just happened no cause required. What if things just existed and happened. We are built in with this assumption in our minds that one thing must cause another, but this is only based upon our own perceptual systems, even if we carry out scientific experiments looking at causation what we learn is still limited by our perceptual boundaries, we will never be able to step out of these boundaries until possibly the moment where we leave these sensing bodies. Therefore this will argue that determinism in the sense of causal relations may only be a phenomena that we perceive. Hence that determinism isn't a reality. Now lets talk about freewill. Freewill can take many meanings. Some libertarians suggest free will is being able to had done otherwise. So when I chose door A, I could had chosen door B. In this case I had freewill. But what if the door B was locked unknown to me. I choose door A so I think I have free will but really even if I had wanted to I couldn't had chosen door B (frank furt case). However one could argue. We have the event where you choose door A, but we also have the event where you go and try door B only to find its locked so you have to choose door A. In this sense the action of choosing door A is the same, but the events are not the same because you tried door B and that was still a different action occurring than in the first event. Therefore the libertarian stance of freewill is limited. Another stance on freewill is that you have freewill if you are able to carry out an action that you will to do without being coerced, or compelled. The focus is more on the blameworthiness of the action. For example lets say I had a gun pointed to my head that I must leave the lecture or they will kill me. I have the choice to say yes or no so I have freewill in a sense but I choose to leave the lecture, I carried out the right action one could say so I am not blameworthy for leaving the lecture. If I was forced out of the lecture then it wasn't my choice and therefore I do not have freewill. Now Hume's point of view is one I would say I agree with more, the idea of an intentional agent, that someone has free will if they chose to rest or to move. So for an example, I may choose to move my hand. Even in the case of a prisoner in chains they can still move their arms to try and get out of the chains, so because they are still moving they have freewill in a sense. This kind of focuses on our ability to move or do something. so one could argue that even by breathing we have freewill. Okay so these are just some ideas of free will. But I am not saying I am sure about any of them. So when I think of freewill I think of the idea that we have an impact in our lives and other peoples lives, the idea that I have an element of control with my life, who I choose as a partner, my job, my friends etc. Do I think I can fly to the moon if I want because I have free will. well No. I think there are restrictions on our actions. I think the problem with free will and determinism debate is that the two are often seen as entirely different things. For me freewill is the concept we use to describe my causal role in the universe. Even if I sat in my room all day I would still be playing a causal role in the universe, by breathing etc. My single breath could lead to a leaf falling off a tree and this leaf then making someone trip over tomorrow so they miss their bus so they meet the love of their life etc etc. At the time I have no idea that my single breath has changed someone elses life. Often we think we have free will when for example I remember choosing to turn left so ten minutes later I saw my friend. One could say I chose to turn left and therefore it was my choice which led me to seeing my friend and getting an invite to a party etc etc. But the reason we think we are agents that create the opportunities and events in our life is because we pick out conceivable significant actions and think one must had led to another. But in the reality, me turning left led to an event (most likely a few instantaneous events) occurring in the msec afterwards and that is it. Between the event of me turning left and bumping into my friend millions of tiny events occurred and if just one of those was different then I wouldn't had bumped into my friend in exactly the same way I did. Therefore because we cannot conceive of all those micro events such as the wind, me blinking etc. We think that one our actions led to another event. When really they just led to the event occurring immediately after it. Therefore when I chose to turn left there would had been many subconscious factors influencing my action, and there were many inconceivable factors that led me to see my friend. therefore again due to the limits of what I can perceive we are tricked into thinking we have free will just like we are tricked into thinkning in a much broader sense that the causal relations we perceive are the way that things are. So my conclusion is that we are entities just like any other componenent of this universe that plays a role. the extent to this role we will never be aware. However on a lighter note, when we have the moments in life when time seems to stop and you feel like you are really living, and you are just so grateful to be in that moment, cherish it and remember it. because we only have these moments. My past is now a distant memory party made up by my mind as we can never recollect something to its entirety and the future is even more abstract, most of the future I will not conceive of just like most of the past I do not. Therefore those moments you do remember that stick our in your mind along with visions you may have for the future, cherish them. Because sadly we will never be able to conceive of every event and how magical and beautiful each moment can be. So the moments you do have like now and the ones you will remember, enjoy them. Therefore lets think of ourselves as having this complex significant role in the universe because it is true. Just like every atom has a role. You are here by some miracle, you are existing right now and you are playing a role. Whether that role is determined or whether that role is free. or maybe that role JUST IS.

[@lastride9159]

read every word of it.

[@AF-dn2bz]

regarding your first four sentences in the first paragraph. if that is the case, you are describing creation. and unfolding creation based on pre-programmed code. and I'm not arguing against that I'm just making it clear that your argument is in the realm of creationism.

[@nicolecapriani5918]

So, are we puppets? Now the big question: who is controlling all this?

[@kanpurridevlogs2569]

No need to control when everything is predetermined you're just acting the way it should be

[@Happenstance_music]

No one is a puppet, you can still make choices. It’s just the case that if you would roll back time and play again you would make exactly the same decision. No gods necessary for that?

[@darko783]

Search up "on the origins of the world" from the nag hammadi. Listen to the whole thing. That will blow your mind.

[@directdecker30]

Very fascinating and much respected and appreciated. I'm also under the impression well before I ever came across this fun video that my own intuitiveness somehow always knew this. While I have always felt to some degree to classify myself as a determinist, lower case d, in determinist. I also believe most of what we exercise or read about in the sciences can be taken into a fundamentalist point of view just like you can within religion, ideologies, etc, etc. Christ in the holy gospels spoke about how some misinterpret the letter of the law while missing out on the spirit of the law. Or, as Alan Watts put it, "those who take words too serious might end up being the person who climbs up a signpost instead of going in the direction it points to" It is evident that all of nature and creation seems to be predetermined with a wonderful signature behind it, at least within a materialist or empirical point of view. However, that wouldn't totally negate our own capacity to navigate with a sense of will to loosely operate within a predetermined structure. There very well could be much more nuance within this subject, with that said I do believe the human spirit has free will to choose moral decisions within grace, even within a preordained structure. I sense I have a destiny somehow, and by ignoring it with my own ego and hubris, I become disordered personally by recognizing that everything around me has a purpose and destiny. In that sense, I probably compromise with hell often without even knowing it..lol

[@KitKrash]

If everything is determined, then there is the possibility that the laws of physics are stable (or at least stable over a long a period of time for us to not be aware of it changing). It also opens the possibility for us to create a technology of seeing the future (if that’s capability does not already exist). Finally it could possibly mean that consciousness itself is an illusion of mechanistic origin. But seeing the universe as mechanistic could just be a limitation of our cognition or limited consciousness. I also think it is mere assumption that the laws of physics are actually stable other than within our limited notions of time.

[@KamilsView]

I know believe in free will 300%.

[@1bigdogthe]

One thing that would clinch the discussion once and for all, Would be a Time machine, go into the future acquire information in that future then come back to the past and change the future. Since Time travel into the past creates paradoxes it's probably not possible. Hence that's an indication that determinism really may be the truth.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

determinism ISN'T "everything has already been determined" it's that your actions are determined by previous events. until we have a time machine we don't know the future, so you have the illusion of free will to choose your next step, it's that the step you choose is determined by your subconscious, your physical and mental state, and a million other outside influences. if you played the tape of existence from beginning to end, then rewound it and replayed it, things would happen exactly the same - except maybe quantum physics might throw in random elements, but random is not free will either. but the idea that you are a puppet just playing out act isn't entirely correct, it's that you have choice, but the choice is determined by your state of mind.

[@isaacgarcia2979]

I think you have a choice, but your decision has already been pre determined.

[@waiislamah1924]

he who created has determined every thing in advance however he put infinite possibilities for us to choose from and that is the free well , what you do or choose it is your doing and choice but you will not do or choose anything out of the possibilities that exist

[@HarryNicNicholas]

no one created us, there is no free will.

[@eesahash3163]

@@HarryNicNicholas do you know about everything(biochemistry, quantum physics, neuroscience) to form that conclusion? You sound so sure of yourself knowing so little

[@kbk9230]

Yes, everything is determined. We just *want* free will because it gives more meaning and comfort to our existence. In truth we have as much free will as the soil we came from and will be, nothing changes because you become aware of your own existence, the universe cares not.

[@kbk9230]

Don't get it twisted, would love be wrong. But even if we introduce a "random" element to this, what would change? We ourselves would need to be able to actively change this "random" element or we still lack free will. Sure the universe might not be predetermined then, but as for us, it has no meaning.

[@KamilsView]

+kbk9230 I can see your point. But maybe there is a mechanism in the universe that gives us free will as the observation suggests that. It kind of makes sense.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

the religious need free will so they can send people to hell, they love revenge and "justice", if there is no free will then god didn't give you free will and he's a despot for punishing you when he set the whole thing up. determinism means we have to look at criminals in a different light - they are victims of circumsatnce as much as the victims. and there have been cases where criminal behaviour has been directly linked - and cured - to neuosurgery, basically curing criminality. the religions of the world hate that. they want people they don't like in hell.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@KamilsView there is no free will. events are either determined by prior events, or random, and random is the same as asking me to choose for you, and there we are back at determined. the only process that doesn't require a cause is the big bang.

[@valtavamonsteri728]

How do you cope with the fact that everything has been determined? Ever since i heard about determinism it feels like my life got ruined (not saying it wasn't determined to happen anyway). So now i just sit here thinking how even the tiniest pieces of dust are exactly where they were determined to be an infinite time ago, same with every single word i say, everything. The way my life was gonna go is the way it was always gonna go and whether it is horrible or good or decent i have absolutely no control over it, i just have to hope it's not bad. Even using word "i" has started to seem stupid, because when talking free will "i" always implies there is something beyond my body and brain activity that doesn't operate based on the same laws as everything else. Maybe my biggest reasons for intense anxiety when it comes to free will is that NONE of the horrible things that has ever happened couldn't have been prevented. If there was a mass murder somewhere, it was always gonna happen. Also no one can be held accountable for anything. If i will get murdered at the age of lets say 41, it was always gonna happen, and its just one of those things that i am supposed to just accept, because yeah thats the reality. But i think the worst part is that all of this has shattered the perception of myself. Every human sees reality only through its own lenses and the universe is kind of around the human. But with determinism being true it destroys the uniqueness in our life and makes "us" basically nothing because what creates us is just material world influences that cannot be controlled in any way. It feels like what is "I" is just some entity that is watching a movie. Again this sounds stupid because there is no "I". This leads to thoughts going circles like crazy, thinking how even this thinking of determinism and finding ways to cope with it was all determined too.. Its all so confusing because technically from a materialist perspective our consciousness and lets say water are inherently in no way different, because from the universe's perspective there is only atoms energy laws of nature etc. I wish the reality wasn't like this, i wish there wasn't this thing the universe in which there is conscious beings that cant control anything but can just feel pain from knowing that for example their loved ones will die, they will die, universe is deterministic, etc. This all is just horrible and at this point i just wish there is like a God or something that is pulling strings and somehow making sense of all this mess. For my whole life i have feared death so much, but now it feels like thinking about determinism has become even greater source of anxiety.. If there is no God i guess the only blessing that conscious beings have is that in next life maybe don't know that the universe is deterministic.

[@KamilsView]

Well, scientific logic says everything has been determined, while the other logic say that world would make no sense without free will. But what exactly is free will? Who decides? Have our decisions not been already determined based on our past? Who knows.

[@Kenopsyaa]

I also get so anxious from all of this, it’s too much for the human mind to process. I guess ignorance really is a bliss. But hey my advice would be to actually just enjoy the ride and laugh it off, even if it is all pre determined, you still don’t know what the future is like, each day still feels new, just like the new episode of a tv show, except you can participate in it, you’re the main character of your own movie/tv show, and just like you there are many others, simultaneously impacting each other’s stories. Just make sure you’re also a character and not just a spectator. You’re both at the same time.

[@valtavamonsteri728]

@@Kenopsyaa Thank you for this and i also wish you luck in your own struggle !

[@epicbehavior]

I’m unsure if true random can exist. Clearly free will doesn’t exist, but unsure about randomness.

[@Omjegasian]

Excellent video. Personally i am content with the idea that big stuff is pre determined but on a small scale there is choice

[@AF-dn2bz]

are you content because it sounds pleasing or because it's truth verified?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

trouble is the choice is determined, that's the point. if you are theist choose to atheist, you can always choose to change back if you have free will. or is it that you can't choose to not believe in a god? you are DETERMINED to believe wwhat you believe? there is no CHOICE it is COMPULSION.

[@thomasmeinhardt9793]

I enjoyed your video and your analysis. There are problems with invoking quantum mechanics. One is that any "spooky action at a distance" could quite reasonably be presumed to be us butting up against the limits of our understanding of time and the workings of the fourth dimension from the perspective of a flawed being existing in a three dimensional world and experiencing the illusion of time with our limited abilities. More importantly though, I must say that even if quantum fluctuations did provide for undetermined or unpredictable changes at the subatomic level that then had a butterfly effect of implications on up the chain, this would not be sufficient to give a person free will. It would merely be another unchosen cause, albeit uniquely random, that led into the same systems that determined our actions. Adding one more factor into the mix does not give agency to the individual. Also, without getting deep into the topic, I would argue that the "soul" is merely an emergent illusion constructed by our extremely powerful and complex minds. Brains with spatial-temporal awareness of the size and complexity of ours will inevitably evolve things such as consciousness, self-awareness, capability for foresight and planning, etc. These minds are subject to all deterministic causal forces in the same way anything else in the universe is. The number of factors is merely increased. Neurotransmitters, hormones, mental pathways, size of various parts of the brain and how much use they're given, and of course the myriad deterministic external stimuli forcing these mechanisms are but a few simple examples.

[@KamilsView]

Yeah, very good summary. Regarding the soul, there is no evidence as such for its existence, but there is huge evidence of its existence. Many things cannot be explained unless you introduce a soul into the logic. If you meditate or practice martial arts, you can become more conscious of the soul or spirit. For example, how come we know when people think about us and are going to call us any moment? And many other phenomena?

[@thomasmeinhardt9793]

Kamil's View That's really interesting to think about. Based on my own experience (and what I've read), my understanding is that phenomena like are merely a form of confirmation bias. I may think of my friend Steven and feel like he may be thinking of me, and he may call me shortly after ("Hey, I was just thinking about you!"), but there are innumerable times that I do indeed think of other people (tens or hundreds of times throughout the course of my thoughts throughout any given day?), and I don't receive an equally innumerable amount of phone calls, certainly not anywhere remotely near a one to one ratio of thinking intently about someone and getting a call from them. I can't imagine what kind of physical interaction would make that possible, but the idea of it is tantalizing, and I'd love to believe it (part of the problem with confirmation bias, though!). I'm even open to believing that we give off some form of energy, since our bodies are electrochemical in nature and almost act like a sort of battery, though I think we'd probably have picked up on our "magnetic fields" by now (please point me in their direction if they exist without my knowledge). Thanks for the response Kamil. I'd be happy do discuss things more!

[@KamilsView]

This happens to me regularly and too often to dismiss it. I often know when someone is going to call me. Or I feel I need to send someone a message out of the blue, and based on that I compose a message specifically for that person. In response I hear: OMG, this is exactly what I needed to hear. How did you know? Our brains transmit various waves. Other brains can pick them up - proven by many experiments. We are connected. Dr Demartini says that regularly people who go through his process often receive a phone call from people they have not spoken for years the exact moment the process finishes when the process was about that person that calls. I witnessed similar things many times with such regularity that I have no doubt. It's simply predictable. Fascinating!

[@altpotus6913]

I have only recently been thinking about determinism vs free will. Thanks for your comment.

[@isaiahphillip4112]

Do determinists believe that people are responsible for their actions? Whether good or bad? Like when somebody flips you off in traffic, do you get angry, or do you just accept that that was the only possible outcome defined by the physical laws of the universe, that was in the making for 13.8 billion years?

[@KamilsView]

+Isaiah Phillip If you believe in total determinism, you have no control. And you have no other choice but to gen angry, unless your not bothered, then you have not choice but to be not bothered.

[@isaiahphillip4112]

Kamil's View Oh God that's a mind twist. So should we punish people or not after they commit crimes? Whether we do or do not, that's apparently the only way it could have ever happened, but we'd be making the choice, but, wait, what? I'm going to have a brain meltdown.

[@KamilsView]

+Isaiah Phillip Well, if you believe in extreme determinism, you have no choice but do whatever you're doing. There are no shoulds as you have no choice. If you don't believe it, then you can choose what to do ;-)

[@isaiahphillip4112]

Kamil's View Yeah, whether I have a choice or not, I'll live as if I do have a choice.

[@aleksandardjukic8534]

@@isaiahphillip4112 There is should?! If you just observe someone pushing a man in bus (by accident or deliberately) there are two outcomes (general one, to make it simple): He ll get mad OR he ll say its ok its not his fault. His decision will depend on previous causes and laws of nature. But if we look we ll have to say that man shouldnt be angry at all, because it had to happen. And we can conclude that anger was unnecessary emotion. By this reasoning if we accept determinism as true we shouldnt have "bad emotions" like hate, urge to kill or get revenge because we would be able to understand that people that did things had to do it.

[@Xemptuous]

I think that we constantly live the experience of free will, as the vast variety of complexities occurring at our perceptive moment are so unpredictable that we see it as choice beginning with our thought, then body. We still have no free will in that law and divine order maintain everything in an infinite fractalized paradox of itself, so that it never has an end point. This entails every moment is experienced infinitely, as is every possibility, and it's all happening at once, except you are able to follow this trajectory laid out before you as a journey, and a testament to the beautiful and awesome experience we are able to have. So in the end, it doesn't matter. You have free will, you don't have free will. It sounds pretty nihilistic, but that's what happens when you accept duality - everything has a polar opposite, and knowing it is never knowing it; it is what it is, and it is what it isn't. "Free will" is free will(as the experience is forced on us), and "free will" isn't free will. Enjoy the ride.

[@KamilsView]

Ha ha. Very interesting view. It could be the closest to the truth. Duality - it is and it isn't at the same time.

[@anwarulmamoon4299]

What is the definition of free will?When I do some thing that is determined by my brain cells made of atoms. So where is me?If we assume universe is determined then what our existence means??

[@theliamofella]

I have been obsessed with the nature of reality all my life and I can understand why determinism is difficult to dismiss but although we humans understand many things like the motion of galaxies and thermodynamics etc but I’m certain that there are many things we don’t know and understand, so reality may not be so predictable to our understanding and consciousness may be the exception to the law of cause and effect maybe because consciousness is a fundamental phenomenon

[@HarryNicNicholas]

go watch a few sean carroll mindscape episodes before you lose what's left of the sensible part of your brain. it sounds to me you know a thing or two but you're on the cusp of letting the woo twats get to you.

[@theliamofella]

@@HarryNicNicholas been watching Sean carol for years, I’m a very rational person and obsessed with truth, but you have to keep an open mind, obviously not so open that your brains fall out, Also most people believe in the Big Bang theory, but call other cosmological ideas silly or woo, when the Big Bang theory is the most insane idea of the lot, the idea that an infinite universe or even the observable universe started of as something smaller than a grain of sand but we don’t call that woo because we are used to it and accept it, consciousness being fundamental to reality could be correct but we don’t know yet Also with respect you shouldn’t assume to know what a person knows or doesn’t know or what they are on the cusp of, Thanks for your interesting reply though 👍✌️

[@gitgud7457]

@@theliamofella No, no, the big bang theory is definitely the most plausible. What else do you propose happened? God?

[@theliamofella]

No I believe in a big bang like I said, I think you misunderstood, the point was that if people can believe the big bang (like myself ) then they should be ready to believe that anything is possible, as the big bang is insane, only people who have no idea think the big bang is easy to understand, people like Einstein would say its completely madness that a the universe started off the size of a grain of sand (even though he would believe it to be true )

[@gitgud7457]

@@theliamofella What was confusing was that you said the big bang theory is the most insane of the lot, but wouldn't you say other ideas are even more insane, if that's what you believe in? I agree, people should always have the humility to accept what they believe might be wrong. On some level, all of us are believing things and have trust in things without knowing the full picture, but even though it's madness, we can use reason and logic to determine which madness might be closer to the truth. In the end, we might not ever reach any objective truth, but we could come as close to the truth as humanly possible.

[@andrewmanford]

I am a determinist. I liked your explanation and accent ha ha :) But the wave function and 'randomness' of quantum theory is still governed by a law (we don't entirely understand), Do you think that we will be able to settle the argument? Is it attainable/possible? Good video, gracias. :)

[@KamilsView]

Andrew Manford Hola Andrew. Ablas Espanol? I don't know if we can ever settle this argument. I think it either defies logic, or depends on the point of view, which is not something you can argue with. I like my accent too ;-). I'm from Poland originally. You?

[@KamilsView]

+3MonkeesInDenial Ok, so on the quantum level there is randomness, does that imply that there might be some free will?

[@grenda5]

this guy is so interesting. im fascinated by this.

[@KamilsView]

Thank you. Very kind of you.

[@vinayseth1114]

2:24 But what makes you presuppose that we can know the conditions of the past, even 2 'frames' in the past, with 100% accuracy?

[@KamilsView]

We can't. But the universe can.

[@mohankumar-fd6xi]

Future is already THERE. That is why Nostrodomous could see it . Every thing is determined . Free will is an illusion.

[@ronbrown8611]

yes everything is determined. Just because we can't pinpoint the exact location of an electron while observing it doesn't mean determinism is false. Humans are don't know enough about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle yet.

[@greglarson4253]

Remote viewers can look into the future with some accuracy, therefore, some form of predetermination must exist. Remote viewers, if you have not heard, are every living person. But some people train to strengthen their abilities. Very interesting stuff. Check out the decalcified CIA articles online about how they use these trained people as psychic spies. And yes I love oranges.

[@casuallearning5020]

The universe is a predetermined static block universe without continuous causation in physics. Read Dr. Hansson’s 2020 physics proof at Physics Essays Vol. 33, No. 2 (2020).

[@KamilsView]

Thanks for the recommendation.

[@dogarualexandru-stefan]

Just because we don't undestand the quantum particles and theyr behaviors, and we dont have the tehnology to mesure exactly, that dosen't mean its random. Its simply means we dont understand it...yet. Everything points to determinism. Meaning there is no free will. Even if at quantum scale its completely random, that doesn't mean you have free will, on the contrary ,it proves that at any time any of your thoughts are a randon set of quantum probabilitys. And what you get is 1 random state out a infinite possibilities. For me, the simply existence of a past, its the best evidence that the universe is determisistic. That means no free will.

[@friendsforever5012]

Your every action is based on genetics , life experiences, neuro chemistry , trauma , and your environment.

[@pinkninja2740]

I think there is a determined future but that doesnt mean we dont have free will. Our actions are not becouse of the future, its the other way around. So our desicions based on our free will, have consiquences that form the future. And we are going to make those desicions becouse thats who we are and what we have been shaped to be our whole life (by the lessons from our experiences, the books we read, the people we met...). And if you know a person perfectly you can guess any of the choices they will make correctly. But you knowing what they will do doesnt mean they dont have free will. You just know what that person will do becouse you know them perfectly. In this case, the universe knows everything perfectly so its obvious what we will do so our future is determined. But, on our free-willed actions.

[@TheCynicalCynic]

There are few things people overlook when thinking through this. When people think determinism, there's an immediate assumption that you arent in control of anything and are just results of the will of the universe. Because everything that can ever be has already happened. Thats obviously why free will is appealing. But you have to remember that even though eveyrthing has already been set, your actions shape up what has been determined. I call it reactionism. Sort of a halfway point of the two. Unless it already has a name. Anyway, this is how it works: Lets say you die in a car accident tomorrow on your way to work due to a driver running a red light. This was already set in motion the instant time existed. Particles, molecules, all of it moving forward creating mass, stars, planets, dinosaurs, extinction, our uprising, civilizations, wars, technology, nazis losing world war, vehicles further developed, more jobs made, you getting hired, job making you go to work at 8 AM, you being sleepy, you ending up on the road, you getting T boned and dying. You had no choice but to be there because of how you reacted to all the previous events that led you there. What if you slept earlier the day before? What if you called in to work? What if you turned down that job? What if you looked around more while driving to see the car coming? The only thing that you can do is choose how to react to things that you know have to be determined. I know that at 8pm I start my graveyards shift until 8am. Tonight. I know Im going to be there because I dont want to lose my home so I can sleep now to get rest or stay up longer watching youtube and be tired. Whatever I decide has already been determined the moment my dad decided to get my mom knocked up. Even before that. However, that future only exists because of MY actions. How I react to what has been set in motion is still my decision. I could just say fuck it and kill myself right now. If I did it that was always going to happen but I still had to make it happen. Or I can kill the neighbor. My wife and kid. My dog. Whatever happens has already happened but I still played a part. Reactionism.

[@KamilsView]

What you describe is not determinism. It is excercising free will.

[@mediacenterman8583]

This is a free will summary and not determinisim

[@TheKaraqi4]

Free will and determinism are not necessarily contradictory if we say that our consciousness shifts between parallel realities. What happens in one physical reality can be totally predetermined but if you switch to another reality, you‘ll be able to experience another outcome. Of course the shifts are not registered as something obvious but as regular linear time.

[@KamilsView]

Hm... maybe. At the moment a lot depends on our definition of free will. Logically, there is no free will. But our intuition tells us that there must be.

[@matthewclark1006]

Let's conduct a thought experiment. It is 630 pm as I sit in my chair and write this. If I took this present Version of me back to the Start of the day, I inevitably think it's likely something Could have transpired differently. However if the day had a reset button, it's seems rather unlikely that anything would've happened differently. So I fully agree with determinism!!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

exactly. rewind he entire universe, apart from quantum effects that might change things randomly, slightly, everyone would make the same choices for the same reasons - unless they knew in advance that another choice would turn out better, in which case they wouldve made that choice to begin with - arrrrgggg

[@escapefr0mslender]

My friend had a dream where, she guessed our exact seating roster for the next week. Out class seats change each week and she predicted where me, my other friend and her other friend would sit and she also predicted who would sit next to her.

[@KamilsView]

Very nice. It just shows the power of our minds. Who knows what we are capable of!

[@l0kidaf00l]

Very interesting... We can't say if determinism is right or not, if the universe was created in the big bang, and all the laws of physics were created at that moment, then according to those laws, and where the exploding started, if we knew all the laws of physics we could potentially calculate the entire universe. We would have to know what kind of fields were there, what kind of matter was where, and everything, all the laws of physics. However, according to quantum mechanics and if we are right about it and it really is random, that means the universe was created based on randomness at the smallest levels, being which we would have free will.

[@KamilsView]

Yeah, that's the current view of quantum physics. I still believe that there might be laws governing that randomness and one day we might discover them. Now, there is no free will, we are bound to discover them sooner or later. If there is free will, we might not, not only because they don't exist, but also because nothing is decided ;-). This is now getting really complex - Lol.

[@rotorblade9508]

First of all if it is deterministic it doesn’t mean everything has already happened its just everything is going to happen based on the past. But in quantum physics there is Bell’s theorem that demonstrates particles don’t have features that determine their behaviour but at a random decision for a two way possibility is made at moment of interaction so it’s not deterministic Physical processes perform the interaction that result in brains taking decisions so the decisions are the result of the interaction therefore free will in not possible in any system

[@amalsvijay6684]

If freewill is real, I should have gotten a freewill to choose my appearance, parents, place of birth, gender at the time of birth.

[@KamilsView]

Maybe you have?

[@amalsvijay6684]

@@KamilsView I didn't 😁

[@LemonGreenism]

To me there is a difference between physics and materialistic considerations such as particule and an human action, a big difference. When you say that is my role in the universe you consider humans as a pack of atomes, like we fonction like clock or something. But what about our soul, consciousness and inconsciousness, the invisible world within a person... I know that scary to take it into considerations thats mostly why people want to throw all of it into the garbage ( because we can only it by its effects ) but the fact is that this world really interfer in our actions in a way or another. What are your thoughts on that ?

[@KamilsView]

+LemonGreenism Well, we can feel that we have a soul, spirit, and other energies, but we don't understand them and definitely can't predict them or create a reliable manual. At least I don't know anyone who can. So we can only speculate unless someone can convince me otherwise. That's how I see it.

[@LemonGreenism]

+Kamil's View I am not convince by this answer and it really joins what I said : because we don't understand, we ignore it. The fact is, you are also speculating about determinism... Because to truly have determinism, we have to take into considerations everything (the soul etc too) and you let out an all invisible part therefore your theory is really fragile and sit on assumptions... Thanks you for responding !

[@KamilsView]

+LemonGreenism I did not say that I believed one way or another. I was just wondering how it really is.

[@alittleofeverything4190]

Complexity has emergent properties that are still determined, including consciousness and free will. This is my opinion based on what I know so far.

[@puja9689]

Very simple..Your thoughts are not yours!!

[@thefluffychild4619]

I agree the concept of an ego doesn't make sense in the confines of a deterministic universe. Your just a conglomeration of particles or entropy positioned in A specific way, Consciousness is an emergent property. I wish it not to be the case but the more I look into quantum mechanics physics philosophy the more it seems Unavoidable

[@Milios666]

What if the outcomes (our behavior and its outcomes) seems like infinite (infinite possibilities) because of the laws of nature governing our Universe which also predict infinite outcomes? What i mean is this: If the laws of nature predict infinite randomness, then perhaps our behavior is simply the result of these laws. Maybe we have the illusion we have free will because we have a finite mind that cannot grasp the concept of infinite possibilities. According to the Mathematics and Theory of Fractals, adding more than one law in life can lead to unpredictable outcomes which are still predetermined by said laws. Imagine how many laws are governing the Universe we still do not know about and may never be aware of. These laws may be responsible for the infinite outcomes that come from human behavior. The thing is, this is so complex, we may never be able to grasp the concept because the finite human mind can never include all this infinite knowledge. What if humans are merely the leaves on a branch of a tree: We all look and behave differently, but we are all the same on the basic level, governed by the same rules. This may also have some impact on the Creator Thesis, because maybe our Universe is not "fine-tuned" by a creator, maybe our Universe has always existed (and always will) with the laws it has, and it just so happens that in all this randomness, we had the "chance" to be born in a planet that can sustain life for some time according to those laws. It's not like a creator made all this in order for us to be able to be alive (this sounds really anthropocentric and egotistic), maybe the Universe exists independently from a creator, with its own rules and laws and one of the results of these laws is the possibility of life.

[@KamilsView]

Milios666 Hm... I really like this theory - it makes sense. We could be just one of the by-products of the universe. That is really great - thanks for sharing, bro.

[@Wandering_Nomad]

So to argue that determinism is false, we have to find something truly random. But it's impossible cause the supporters of determinism will always have this line of argument "well, it might seem random but the truth is, it is governs by something we haven't comprehended.."

[@KamilsView]

Royal Blue That's right. You can't prove it or disprove it at the same time.

[@depenz]

Something truly random can be the digits of PI or any irrational number, since IT can be proven they dont follow any pattern..

[@MYRIADMUSICUK]

I don't think quantum physics is that clear about anything aha. But this was a great explanation of determinism.

[@morganweaver7112]

We Only Have RELATIVE Free Will, God Has ABSOLUTE

[@adarshgaurav1124]

So i was destinated to suffer this way..?

[@KamilsView]

Who knows!

[@Trp44]

It would require perspective relative reality.

[@richter018]

Relativity proves "eternalism"/block universe theory thus proving determinism.

[@pablowa5947]

Random behaviour applies only in the quantum world, and only if you try to measure it. does not apply in the bigger scale. Randomness does not affect us, becose we are part of the bigger scale, meaning that we are subject to the laws of newton, einstein, etc, ¿isn't that so?

[@KamilsView]

+no one cares I don't know. It might seem so, but is it? Who can know?

[@lindaeisenberg5214]

I think in large scale everything is already determined in small scale we can determine but the larger scale is more important so at the end is kind of illusion of self will the example is you are given. 20 dollars you can buy whatever you want but the amount is only 20 you can’t have 200 sometimes you try so hard to get a thing you won’t sometimes you don’t even imagine of getting a thing it comes your way and it’s more so the more we want something the less we achieve it usually and I can’t figure out why it is my everyday life question everything is so strange for example I am an electrical engineer but I can’t find a job I ask myself why ?? But there is no why sometimes we are used to whys but sometimes we can’t find the reason and just have to accept it

[@KamilsView]

Yeah, there's never really any real why. And it sounds right that on big scale things are determined already.

[@thatchinaboi1]

If anyone thinks the issue is not yet settled, then that means they have yet to come to an understanding of the truth. I recommend learning about the basics of logic, be familiar with informal logic, the significance of a priori truths, the Problem of Induction, and last but not least Parmenidian Ontology. "Ex nihilo nihil fit."

[@roisinlynch5753]

maybe if the orange was thrown, laws would have already determined where it would land, its speed etc, but what laws have already determined that you would throw it?

[@KamilsView]

+Róisín Lynch That's a good question. Maybe there are laws governing that and we simply have not discovered those laws.

[@thomasmeinhardt9793]

The same laws. We live in the same deterministic cause and effect universe as the orange. Our minds are extremely complex (with their pathways, hormones, neurotransmitters, etc.), but they are still subject to the laws of physics nonetheless.

[@KamilsView]

And that is a 3 trillion dollar question!

[@KamilsView]

Thomas Meinhardt, how do you define mind or what do you think it is in physical world terms?

[@asasdfdd1238]

Then how do computers create so called randomness for example coin flipping apps etc

[@KamilsView]

That is always a challenge. Computers can't do random numbers. If needed, they get connected to random number generators that take entropy from the "real world".

[@hgeetoowellz]

real deep

[@RaghuG]

The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent. - Sri Ramana Maharshi (Hindu Saint, 1879 -1950)

[@sidharthachauhan4830]

Ramana Maharshi: yes, everything is predetermined.

[@thughes1987]

interesting video.. i love oranages too!. small point but at the start aren't you confusing determinism with fate? determinism says everthing that happeneds now has already been pre-determined. fate says the future is set. also things could be dertermined but that doesnt mean they have already happened ... a point on free will: if determinism is false and we can now see this from sub atomic level (though it could be that we arent capible of measuring and understand them at the moment) that doesn't mean that theres free-will. it just suggests that theres a degree of determinism and a degree of randomness, no?

[@KamilsView]

Well, I guess that depends on how you define each. Fate can be considered as something that only determines the main points in life, while determinism as sth that determines every little detail too.

[@thughes1987]

thanks for the fast reply! i tried the head ache begone questions and it worked a treat! thanks! you're right in that we could go on to define in certain ways etc, so lets not get bogged down. 1 last question though. in the title you mention the whole universe has already happened. do you mean its already been determined or that the events of the future have happened already? just general questions to see if you might intergrate the ideas with time/ etc. hope that doesnt seem to gnit picking haha. ive been studying philosophy for several years and it's always good to chat. thanks again

[@KamilsView]

You're welcome, and glad it helped you. Good question. I guess there is no difference. Has it already happened and we just live through that or is it unfolding along the path that can never change produces the same result, so it's kind of the same, no?

[@thughes1987]

hm, interesting thought but im not sure i agree. so ... that would mean just because we aren't able to influence the result of an event it's the same as the event already happening. an example would sound strange(if i've understood your point correctly): lets say.. in a years time a man, ted, is hit by a car and can't walk again. thats the same as him being hit by a car now even if determinism is true and he has no control over the results he'll still have a year where he's able to enjoy the use of his legs

[@KamilsView]

No, not the same. Time does not exist. But our consciousness just travels through time, so we can experience everything as cause and effect instead of oneness (that's one explanation).

[@alienoverlordsnow1786]

Yes, there is no free will. Human behavior is determined by genetic inheritance, combined with environmental conditioning, combined with environmental stimuli. None of those factors are in human control, and so responses are predetermined by causes and conditions, and are not autonomously created by unimpressionable, transcendent beings. Humans are biological robots, programmed to display specific behavior patterns under specific conditions.

[@KamilsView]

Well, in a way yes. Depends how we define the free will. From a scientific point of you, you are right.

[@patrickdominguez7264]

Your right

[@farmerjohn6526]

Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop,Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop, Maybe the record is scratched and we are in a repeating loop,

[@KamilsView]

😁Maybe it is scratched 😂

[@roso2son]

HOW did u know that the starting point of the universe is "BIG BANG"?

[@ZulhelmiAlif]

Before creation only God exist. Then God manifest Himself into creation. So now do we have God & a new entity (creation)? My belief is that still only God exist. This is the oneness of existence. While creation is just manifestation of God. But this doesn't mean God is divided. God is both the hidden and the manifested. Just like a rainbow. Do we say light is divided into different colours? No, whatever the colour it is, stilll it is the same light. So God is creation, creation is no other than manifestation of God, though creation is not God. So how about freewill? Do God give creation freewill? Do creation have power to generate their own actions which "outside" God? No because as we stated God doesn't create or "give birth" to a new existence. Only He exist and creation is just His manifestation. At every instance, He manifest Himself so creation can continue to exist, almost like this computer in front of me, it need continuous electrical current to keep on..

[@KamilsView]

Zulhelmi .Alif That is a very interesting take on the whole thing. BTW, nobody knows what electricity really is, so likewise nobody knows what really god is. Cool.

[@ZulhelmiAlif]

Just for simple example, take this universe as an art painting we see on a wall. From just this one painting, even if we understand what the meaning of the painting, what's the manifested message from the art. But do we able to decipher the attributes, thoughts and the face of the painter whom we never met with our eyes? And we still don't see the other paintings.. which probably sketched with different concept of arts.

[@KamilsView]

Zulhelmi .Alif That is a brilliant analogy. Yes, I agree. We can never have any idea about god - only guess and make assumptions.

[@dragnar12]

On a grand scale yes everyting is predictable humanity will progress / invent things in a certain way ( reason why many inventions are made by multiple poeple in a short amount of time in different places ) but while we as a human species as a whole are predictable ( if we had enough information ). but like in quantum physics individually we are not predictable. If u as a human invest the time to invent someting ( or have a idea to invent someting ) the information for that invention is already out there ( the earlier steps / inventions needed to make your invention ) as sutch out of all the humans u will not be the only one on the trail of that invention. U deciding to try to build that invention or not will not change the overal outcome ( ia the invention will be invented whit or whitout u )

[@KamilsView]

I believe in similar things. I know the universe is highly organised, so certain things are bound to happen, but I know that we also have a free will.

[@jewellwilkey1453]

I do believe there is still free will. We can choose to wear blur rather than red. We can be an alcoholic and choose to change our habits and not be. I do agree with the Soft Determinism theory that while we cannot chose our birth family, or where and how we are born, we chose to change the color of our hair ect. I believe in free will regarding intellectual and spiritual matters are concerned.

[@KamilsView]

+jewell wilkey I think we have some free will, but some things we are destined to experience.

[@jad1025]

Interesting argument.

[@KamilsView]

+JD Desai Well, I am just curious as myself I have no opinion either way.

[@DarrylLearie]

Yes, I think the future is predetermined for the most part. I think that the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics has a negligible effect on the macro world. Think about a game that has a certain level of randomness via dice but is mostly decided by skill - the more skilled player is likely to win, game after game.

[@KamilsView]

Yeah, it could be like that. It's just very difficult for an average human to accept that we don't have a free will. And what is free will any way? :-)

[@nialls1048]

Big fan of Satsumas

[@kaznats1]

Substitute the word God for Universe and he just gave us a very interesting sermon. Predetermination versus free will is also hotly debated in theological circles.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

theists neeed to it cos they believe in revenge, sending bad people to hell, if there is no free will there are no "bad" people, just people who are victims of a determined world and behaviour. religion will argue till the cows come home that we have free will, but, we don't.

[@preeturbo565]

Let's not forget...the State of something determines its projected Future

[@hugo-garcia]

False. Schorindger equation should be capable of predicting the future if everything was deterministic. But this is not the case.

[@soul0016]

I think both the free will & predetermined exist simultaneously. As the “nastradamus” already predicted all those events hundreds of years ago but at the same time all the actors & universal elements participating as if there is free will. May be free will exist there, which can be predicted. Like I like to eat cheese cake among other options as a free will but someone close to me knows my likings & can predict that in advance what i’m going to eat first & most in that buffet. Inspite of his advance predictions, it was my choice & free will.

[@KamilsView]

Now, if you want to define free will, you will notice how difficult it is, once you really start thinking about it. From the scientific point of view there is no free will. Try to define it. It's really difficult.

[@pro12222222]

Hello Kamil! Is randomness an illusion?

[@KamilsView]

I don't know. It might be ;-)

[@Carmai7]

Those birds were determined to not let me hear anything!

[@KamilsView]

That's right. They were super determined. I learnt that I need a better microphone for this type of recordings ;-)

[@jkbish1]

M Kaku does not agree with you on the issue of a deterministic universe. I tend to think events are totally determined. The reason I think that (while unlikely) is because it is possible that even randomness at the quantum level is actually predicable....we just don't understand how it works yet. Of course, I would be a fool to say I am certain.

[@kimyunmi452]

wonderful bees m kaku is great phycisist but lousy philosopher.

[@RandomVids96233]

I believe everything has already happened, every choice you made already happen. So yes you can choose , but you already did, if you were too look at everything through eternity.

[@waykiwayki]

Free will is one of the greatest divine gifts.... You got mixed up with cause and affect and fell into the nihilism pit.

[@bensden50]

How soon after the bang and expansion we're the laws then in place?

[@KamilsView]

That is the question!

[@stephenhogg6154]

You seem to assume that 'having a cause' entails 'being determined'. That seems like a pretty massive leap to me.

[@MayankKumar-ch8pq]

It is cause in a way that says that the cause was previously caused by something else which was further caused by other events and this can be back propagated to the beginning of time and forward to the end of all things. Everything is happening because past events caused it and thus two events occurring a million years apart are just linked with layers of events that the origin set of. Thats determinism.

[@stephenhogg6154]

@@MayankKumar-ch8pq Yes, thanks for that useful clarification. I’ve never actually thought about what determinism means. So, what exactly were the necessary and sufficient causes of, say, WWI?

[@MayankKumar-ch8pq]

@@stephenhogg6154 well the pivotal moment was assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and that happened because serbia took control of the region. Now there were plenty of reasons that they had for both of these actions.(Of which my knowledge is limited so i don't want to try getting into the exact reasoning). Determinism just connects events to a previous event. The reasons for the gruesome war don't have to be the best ones. Determinism doesn't truly absolve people of the crimes they commit. Rather the consequences of these actions are the cause of what's next. A person who goes to jail or dies will then become the reason many people would not take similar risks of make a similar mistake. Every good and bad thing simultaneously becomes the cause of every good and bad thing that hasn't happened for an observer at that moment. Now I like to believe we have free will but the debate over these ideas have been around for a very long time between scientist and in philosophers before them.

[@stephenhogg6154]

@@MayankKumar-ch8pq So, since it proves impossible to identify necessary and sufficient causes for complex events, determinism cannot be demonstrated, and also cannot be disproved. Therefore, the move from having a cause to ‘being determined’ is an unwarranted leap, a leap into metaphysics.

[@MayankKumar-ch8pq]

@@stephenhogg6154 well both Einstein and Newton were firm believers of this. Although they were constantly challenged by contemporaries. To know the answer with absolute certainty is probably impossible for us right now. But all theories that we have accepted or favor make leaps. This is metaphysics by all means.

[@DamonNicholl]

If our "linear" universe actually has no beginning and no end, that is simply its nature (big bang expanded from an infinitely small plane continuously exploding and our perception of the universe is slowed down to give us the illusion that it is no longer exploding), then could we ever have an answer to free will? We will always search to see if there is an end to infinity but will never be certain of it.

[@StanTheObserver-lo8rx]

I typed into youtube search "determinate universe" and this came up. So,I checked by date to get newest on the topic,right?.. NO RESULTS. Spooky.

[@KamilsView]

I guess it's an old subject and not much to talk about :-)

[@StanTheObserver-lo8rx]

Long as I'm here- Its a block Universe. Its all written down somewhere and what we see is the holograph projection in narrowest slices (time) in whatever direction we are facing. I guess that would fit the idea of us stored on some hyperspace God's computer. Still,you have to ask why? for what? and also...I want much better than what I've lived through,whats the point of that?

[@KamilsView]

I believe in free will and co-creation with god.

[@StanTheObserver-lo8rx]

@@KamilsView Free will might be an illusion. Quantum mechanics a brilliant way for the Universe to keep us from knowing all,while it always operates as it always has. Even before time as we know it.

[@KamilsView]

@@StanTheObserver-lo8rx Without free will, the universes and consciousness do not make any sense to me.

[@StanTheObserver-lo8rx]

@@KamilsView Free will is for those outside the Universe..we inside are just parts. Parts that think they are APART..but are most definitely not.

[@StanTheObserver-lo8rx]

@@KamilsView I would say Kamil that everything that happens in life you do not want to happen?..is determinism at its core. Fate is mathematical.

[@tikunolam7]

I think everything ks largely predetermined But if we become conscious (miracle) and have a relationship with God (also miracle), its possible to negotiate(also miracle) for somethings (prayer). Answer will either be yes or no. Free will has to exist and small outliers where some lifeform dodges the grip of fate might have existed. But it has to be approved by whatever force runs the clockwork.