What is going on in Yu-Gi-Oh?

[@IchikaRikaCh]

Some great comments here that summarizes why Yu-Gi-Oh feels off for me. Really appreciate more experienced people sharing their opinions! Now, if you want more of me, know that I stream from time to time! I'm mostly a fighting game streamer but I'm also mixing up some MTG here and there. So, see you there!

[@BestofBallers]

High level play is crazy but I find way more joy in yugioh than any other card game playing with friends. When you pull out a raigeki or a stronger monster everyone is like “OOHHH!!!!” When it comes to mtg we are already ready to switch to different game before the first match is over.

[@arcanaido6415]

Brother, Yu-Gi-Oh was ALWAYS crazy, it's the game's charm, a fast-paced card game that requires deep knowledge of your deck, and while it's true that with time things got even crazier I must inform you that even in its infancy the game had crazy shit like Yata-lock, Painful choice, Graceful charity, etc... Most of the best-banned cards are from the game's infancy, I know that it's a daunting game to throw yourself but I think that people should face it like they face games like Dark Souls, it's hard, it's a challenge, sometimes you lose because you got comboed for 10 minutes others because you had bad luck and bricked but there are also those duels, the ones were you and you opponent throw everything each other have, the ones where the deck is almost at 0, where you learn that you can recycle monsters in ways you never imagined because once both you and the opponent survive the initial onslaught it's like two dying warriors tired trying to deliver the coup de grâce, it's amazing and unforgetfull

[@minnesotamontage122]

I’ve played competitive yugioh since the gadgets with ultimate offering were the meta and yeah you really said it right. Yugioh is ridiculous and honestly a headache but man no other card game has both players burn 20 cards to try to wipe a board or set a field of Omni-negates up. It’s just wild and a single card like max-c can stop all the fun. I recently got into MTG just to enjoy a slower pace, but yugioh’s anime and the cards from it are something I am so glad I got addicted to as a child.

[@Lunacorva]

Yeah... no. This is full of so many of the paint by numbers apologist remarks that I wouldn't be surprised if it was literally copypasted from some forum. Let's break it down. First, Yugioh being fast is not the problem. The problem (And this is found in Yugioh's meta, not in casual play, but the meta is incredibly hard to avoid online) is that it's not a game. When duels end in a one-sided beatdown in 1-2 turns, that is not a game, that is a glorified toin coss. "But yugioh has so much depth and complexity!" It has the POTENTIAL for complexity. But when only 1-3 decks actually MATTER in the meta, there's only a few cards/decks you ever actually need to learn about. Allow me to explain the full scope of yugioh's meta complexity in one post. "Did you execute your combo before your opponent this turn? Yes? Congratulations! You win! No? Sorry. You lose." That is not complexity. "Oh but what about Yata-lock!" Oh, you mean an era so bad that the cards responsible created the banlist? And then after that they had an era that is still popular today? Yeah, this is blatant "whataboutism". Yata was bad then and Snake-Eyes was bad a few months ago. You'll notice how the "whataboutism" never brings up GOAT, Edison or even HATT. Funny how the modern meta always has to be compared to the absolute WORST of the past to even try to look good. The fact is, there IS a version of yugioh that actually has depth, speed, excitement... but it's not the version you'll get logging onto some random server on Master Duel.

[@peachypet808]

@@Lunacorva Thank you for writing this reply... I would have sat here and written something that is almost identical. Yu-Gi-Oh has become one of the worst of the bigger card games out there by now. It HATES new players in a way that I have never seen in any other thing.

[@zonolith5912]

Yu-Gi-Oh is... well, it's an incredible game. The art is stunning, and each archetype feels distinct, with personal touches evident in everything except perhaps the top 1%. There are even mini-stories embedded within the cards, which is a clever touch. Instead of each card being a standalone reference, the cards often tie into broader narratives. On top of that, archetypes sometimes blend into one another, creating unique matchups and opening up entirely new strategies. That said, there are a few aspects of the game that I find frustrating. Chief among them is how some players confuse "fast-paced" with it being acceptable to have a four-turn game, where each turn takes 15 real-life minutes to complete. Then, you’re forced to surrender because you didn’t draw the right card or got negated repeatedly. I’m not suggesting that the game should stop production to focus on a "Yu-Gi-Oh 2: Electric Boogaloo," nor am I calling for an overly complex rework that invalidates all the effort players have put into collecting cards, researching strategies, and perfecting combos. However, for all its greatness, it’s clear the game was never designed to handle this level of power creep-because no game is. Watching your opponent set up their board for 15 minutes while you stare at the wall shouldn’t be equivalent to, "I’m waiting for my turn because I didn’t draw four hand traps."

[@elleeVee]

i never understood why there's no special summon limit either, why do you only get 1 normal/trib but you get line 4000 specials

[@WhizzerdSupreme]

Power Creep is inevitable. However: The thing Yu-Gi-Oh lacks -- in comparison to MtG, Netrunner, Pokemon, Hearthstone, and other tcg's -- is a limiting resource. Just like other games, there are OTK's, Infinite Combo's, timing restrictions, deck optimization, RNG, 20 minute turns, etc. But Yu-Gi-Oh is exclusive as the only TCG that has no hard limit on how many things you can do every turn. Yu-Gi-Oh's Meta issues are only a problem because the only limiting factor is how well you can build a deck, and by extention, how big your wallet is. Whereas in MtG for example, you can choose between different formats to determine how competitively you want to play; and you are limited to one land a turn and by what you're able to pay mana for, period. In Netrunner, you have X number of Actions and N number of Credits to spend, period. In Yu-Gi-Oh, it doesn't matter: if you're not running 3 sets of Hand Traps, Maxx C, and a deck that can do 30 things a turn, you're going to lose. And if you are running that, it comes down to a coin flip. The other issue is that Yu-Gi-Oh explicitly punishes any sort of deckbuilding variety through the way they design cards. In other TCG's, they print a few hundred cards that the player then has the onus put upon themselves to make into a deck. In Yu-Gi-Oh, every deck theme and archetype is predetermined when it's printed, and a handful of them are always the objectively best decks to play to get the best win-rate; it's simply a matter of whether your brain's pattern recognition can pick up on the best archetypes and whether or not you can afford to build that deck.

[@zonolith5912]

"a limiting resource." Accurate, the game is insane, but you can get so easily outpaced with Meta decks as early as turn 1, with omni-gates being so potent into everyone's decks, along with hand traps (Which should never have existed in the first place IMO), that it really is a matter of 'you draw first or you don't get to draw at all'.

[@peachypet808]

@@zonolith5912 They tried giving it a limiting resource with Link. They failed miserably because they don't understand their own game.

[@zonolith5912]

@@peachypet808 Link was the LIMITING resource? Oh lawdy-lawd.

[@peachypet808]

@@zonolith5912 When it originally release you were only allowed to summon from the extra deck if you either had a center zone available OR by having a linked zone available. In the end they changed the rules because it literally killed most archetypes that existed before link came out and just decided to murder old pendulum decks instead. And now it is an overpowered mechanic like any other.

[@amisato8144]

Played this game some years ago, tried to get into it again, and coming from the anime, I was confused. Can't even remember what they did 5 summons ago and it's round 1.

[@EMPCraft]

You are correct, it's awesome right? Honestly yugioh is buy far the most skillintensive cardgame there is.

[@slowdownex]

Pretty sure quick play spells and all that other “crazy” stuff has been in the game for awhile. It’s not really that big a deal, none of the criticisms in the video are. Sounds like someone drumming up any possible thing they can say for content.

[@cd7677]

I can take 4 board wiping efects, no problem, just be better prepared, i can take my opponent denying my whole strategy with a single card, i should've prevented it, but i CANNOT stand hand traps, even more when they are activated on the first turn

[@Lunacorva]

See, I've found that the problem isn't the hand traps. It's that the meta has NO grace period. You get ONE turn to win or your opponent will absolutely crush you. If you get handtrapped, there goes your one opportunity. In a less overpowered format, getting hand trapped is troublesome, but survivable and that takes away much of the sting.

[@Lunacorva]

"We want to have back and forth matches against our opponents, see what we can set up that's the best of our Deck with what we have or knock down what our opponents have set up. We want to be allowed to play the damn game! That's the best fun with it we can have! And yet so frequently with the modern game we're not allowed to. For real players of the game that's manifested in the form of the Meta where if you let your opponent do ANYTHING, then you yourself will in turn not be allowed to do anything instead. I want to have a good back and forth with my opponent to see if I can't outdo what they've done. But if you play that way, thanks to the game in the modern meta… Congratulations! You've already lost. Games these days are decided exclusively by either one turn kills or control decks so broken that if I give them a single turn I'm locked out of doing jack all. That is not fun. That's downright toxic. And Konami has completely abandoned all responsibility towards policing the worst offenders of the metagame." -Des Shinta

[@IchikaRikaCh]

Wait, is this an actual quote? If it is, that's sad.

[@zaidb4296]

hand traps need to be limited to 1

[@jervey123]

this game is stupid and i hate it!! you haven't even gotten to the mechanics that practically gives the advantage to the most pedantic of rule-attorneying jerks and cards that miss their timing for some esoteric reason!! i spent thousands of hours playing it, but you don't know hell until you've tried playing master duel on master rank... and oh yeah, you can just open up the logs window on the bottom right and you can read all the effects that happened

[@IchikaRikaCh]

LMAO. I like how you ranted and then gave advice at the end. Immaculate comment.

[@Lunacorva]

Master Duel is full of people playing meta yugioh decks. The problem is that meta yugioh is literally NOT A GAME. It's a way for Konami to scam you out of money. That said, there are better versions of Yugioh out there that bypass many of the problems while actually giving a fun experience.

[@peachypet808]

I am a judge for Yugioh but besides keeping up with the meta I have few touch points. I play Magic myself now and just occasionally am the judge at locals, once or twice at regionals. And I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said. Cards missing their timing is a pain and only happens if it is an- No, I will not explain it, that part of the game just sucks.

[@jervey123]

@@peachypet808 yeah, it's when the card text says "when" right? and then you'll miss the timing if someone does something after the current chain or if the previous effect from the chain was something that has two or more consecutive effects or it had the word "then," right? i played enough of this stupid game to actually figure that out... this stupid game, man, seriously... i don't even want to imagine playing paper

[@OrroHelhammer]

Bad video