What is Mid-Side Processing? And WHY to Use It!

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Justin Colletti talks about how to use an often-misunderstood mode found in an increasing number of plugins and hardware devices: Mid-Side processing.
What does it mean, and what can it do for your productions? Justin discusses this, and more importantly the "why" of mid-side processing, especially in mastering, but also in special mixing circumstances.
Thanks to Gear Club, Soundtoys and YOU for sponsoring this episode.

[@brucedickert5411]

I'm completely down with Q & A sessions. You would be an awesome resource in that capacity. Thanks Justin!

[@rb032682]

Thanks. This is the most coherent explanation I have heard about m/s processing. I had avoided dealing with m/s processing because of an incorrect assumption it only applied to sources recorded in a m/s microphone arrangement.

[@sebastianhabicht4880]

very well presented. Not a second of my time was wasted which is usually the case with most KZbin explanation vids. I appreciate the time you save people by putting in the time yourself to prepare a well structured coherent presentation.

[@elianmusic7452]

Lovely. Excellent. Quality. Forever grateful for justin's existence and this wonderful podcast, cheers from Cairo

[@TheyStillCallMeRicky]

DS the vocal in the mid channel .. this one statement blew my mind ty man! 8-)

[@SonicScoop]

Yes! -Justin

[@DeltaWhiskeyBravo13579]

Excellent info on mid side Justin. I'm using MS on my 2 bus Pulsar 8200, and then using MS for 2 different saturation types within the mid and side earlier in the mix.

[@augustte]

Really clear video on M/S. Thanks for this.

[@watsonstudios]

I'll use mid-side in the mix on stereo groups if needed. I mostly use mid-side to widen hard panned guitars. I dip around 1-2k in the mid channel of the guitar group to push the guitars further out to the sides.

[@JustinColletti]

Nice! That’s the kind of thinking I’m talking about. I like it!

[@pietrogirardi]

Sometimes I just push harder on the sides with the dbx160 in m/s mode to get some additional width ( just a few dbs otherwise it gets really weird sounding and not wide at all...)

[@watsonstudios]

@@JustinColletti I carves out a nice pocket in the center for vocals.

[@brandonhuttsell]

Great idea I will try this in 1-2k range in mid. I did something similar recently for guitars panned hard , took out some 100-200 in mid to bring clarity to bass and kick but didn't think about the 1-2k range to make room for vocal. Thanks!

[@russellszabadosaka5-pindin849]

Another great video Justin, thank you. As you implied, I’ve found myself only needing mid-side processing in mixing when needing to gate or tame particular elements. Generally speaking, Fabfilter plugins taught me what M/S processing is, reading & following Bob Katz taught me how/when to use it.

[@DannyBoy993.]

Yes please do more of these it is incredibly helpful. Best Danny

[@Nikitahristich]

I'm down for weekly q&a that would be amazing!

[@soulelle]

I'm down for a weekly live q&a, thanks Justin!

[@kingaya.3124]

Thanks, Your Tips are always helpful I always learn something new from this channel.

[@Microwaved87]

Hey Justin, I really like your podcasts. I'm down with the Q&A sessions!

[@devinbuchhorn]

Q&A would be sick!

[@patrickwilliams1886]

you did an amazing job on explaining this . I thought it was necessary for the mix. I do Hip hope and R&B with no live instruments ,just software instruments and loops

[@manijuve]

You explain things in an especially wonderful manner! great! thank you! I learned a lot!

[@jonnyr839]

Hey Justin Leapwing center one allows you to separate left and right sides.

[@lunarlabaudio]

I’d love to see a Q&A video. Haven’t seen them show up so, not sure you got enough interest for this. As far as L-C-R, could you use a plugin like Waves Center to reprint your track as isolated Mid and Side tracks and then use an unlinked L/R plugin to affect only one side?

[@Btvstudio]

I love your tutorials, you've got a great personality for it.

[@SonicScoop]

Thanks, glad you are digging them!

[@AlexAvila-hw3ys]

I used mid side a lot for my drums when I used a teac 3340s. Often times, I only had 2 tracks for drums L and R this allowed me the ability to grab the snare and kick drum and bring it out in the mix better. I made the ms on my small consol

[@speedcrawlmusic]

Thanks Justin! 🙌

[@sidekickbeats_the_official]

Awesome vid Justin !! THX

[@DjClimamusic]

Thank you Justin! :)

[@artisan002]

A fun mixing use for mid/side is to put occasional vocal effects (delay, glitch, etc.) on the sides only, and thus leave the center vocal unaffected. Rare need, but it is pretty slick.

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

Sounds that way too.

[@artisan002]

@@tryingtotryistrying it's a trial and error kind of affair, but worth messing with if you have the free time.

[@artisan002]

@@tryingtotryistrying The fact that I'm telling everyone about it proves it's one of mine. LOL

[@artisan002]

@@tryingtotryistrying I've never messed with Nebula. I just haven't had a need for it, so far. Some of what it's doing I can easily say can be done in iZotope's Trash 2, but not all. Of course, when talking convolution reverb, there are so damned many out ther, it's almost not worth bothering with specifically that in Nebula, unless there are some killer impulses that just don't exist anywhere else.

[@artisan002]

@@tryingtotryistrying Well, right off the bat, Volterra sounds a lot like Brainworx's Tolerance Modeling Technology. I guess I'll have to look into it a bit more. But, not today.

[@kofimawutor]

Great lesson

[@escena6studio964]

Q&A on fridays will be great, go ahead and thanks for your help from Spain

[@anhellehna6858]

Just an idea for L-C-R processing: 1) Duplicate the stereo file 2) Solo mids on one file 3) Mute mids on the other one, and render it 4) Separate the L/R channels of the rendered file Now, you hopefully have the isolated LCR channels. :D

[@robhess7538]

Hi, Justin. I really enjoy your various postings. Q&A would be a great addition. One topic I would appreciate would be: what are the practical and conceptual differences between compressing and limiting (for example: attack and release settings, ratios, thresholds, etc...) in tracking, mixing, and mastering, respectively? Compression is often more discussed in tutorials, while limiting gets far less mention, except for its use in volume maximization. And while the basics are fairly straightforward, are there any subtleties, or less obvious approaches to compression/limiting that can help an intermediate level audio engineer up his/her game. (I am already using compression as a tonal tool, and as an aid to achieving depth of field, in addition to basic dynamic control). Thanks for all your help over the years!

[@dariofromthefuture3075]

my understanding is that limiting tends to 'brighten' a sound - but can lead to courser sound and loss of resolution. It can add transient emphasis similar to a clipper when pushed.

[@QuabmasM]

Im down with Q & A but I have a question for anyone: what are the biggest negative costs of using mid/side? Ive heard many mixers groan about using multiband compression & mid/side on the master bus because to my understanding, it essentially chops up the master bus signal & then pastes it back together according to your alterations with the resulting sound, apart from the corrections you made, being thinner & less cohesive & less balanced than before(or so they say). Im presuming they are speaking of phase issues among others but I always wanted to hear someone argue against that point to help me better know when to use it. In my mind, they are right but sometimes its worth the costs especially if you only have a single wav file to work with(but otherwise should be fixed track by track rather than the master bus). Maybe despite them being right, the effects are so transparent few people will notice or even care after noticing. I used to love using multiband & mid/side liberally until I felt like I got my hand popped by the pros when I heard their opinions. Now Im cautious everytime i even look at the option of using it but I wonder if Im over cautious because its a non-issue but just a potential problem when doing high fidelity work in big budget studios that get payed to be that sharp & particular about the mix.

[@ernestbuckley8671]

Great stuff, thx

[@filteredwaters9171]

I knew nothing... this was extremely helpful! TNX

[@somethingsomething3248]

Sounds like Mid-Side processing isn't something you'd use most of the time, but can be a useful tool for some creative problem solving. Awesome video! Thanks for the information and insight! :)

[@wolfman450r]

Yasss live Q&A would be frickin SICK

[@anantwashere]

Thank you.

[@FC-xc3zy]

Thanks !!!!

[@bloodyharprecords4910]

thank you so much

[@ernestgrouns8710]

I like to use De-essers on over aliased samples as well..

[@moano3271]

YES to live Q&A..i have all kinds of stupid (and some good, hehe) questions that i never seem to totally answer myself

[@J.M.81]

After Years of not doing it I do my first steps - using the Bettermaker EQ on my Masterbus as last using to get my Bass a little more focused doing the Bass Boost only on the Mid and some little Boost on the 6-10k Area while going on the Sides I do a little minus Boost on the Bass on 60-100 (Pultec Style) and Boost the 16k Area with some db.... turned out pretty nice the few times I did it.... need to fine tune that of course in the future

[@danielwetzel7777]

Thanks

[@DaMazinOfficial]

Well said. Thanks for saving me days worth of research lol

[@SonicScoop]

Awesome to hear! Glad to be useful. -Justin

[@NagoyaHouseHead]

I am very down for live Q and A and I would be fully up for participating

[@danielunderhill6086]

I think a good case for mid side processing during mixing is to center the kick and bass to clean up the sides. Another is for hard panned rock guitars to create more separation from the bass. Thanks for the good info!

[@zuludj]

Ya GREAT video thanks Mr

[@DrAudioBot]

yes to Q&A

[@jtonthatrack3984]

thanks bro :)

[@ORKESTRAL666]

16:00 I'm thinking you'd need 3 channels; 2 full panned, 1 centered. I'm interested in that topic of that!

[@zian3694]

explain L-R processing. What are the tools and plugins used for doing ms processing? do we still need this process in 2021 ? because the music i create is all generated by the vst plugins and nothing is recorded ( m/s recording ) except the vocals ? how to control those things from the mix itself . can you explain with the vst generated guitar chord plugin ( ex. virtual guitarist ). First we have to make that virtual guitar sound stereo and then at the mastering stage have to control that ? If i make that sound stereo , doesn't it lose some of it mid? do you get what I am asking?

[@dx_armitage]

My only fear when it comes to m/s processing is whether or not it adjusts the depth of the mix too much, besides not knowing anything more about it which is why I rarely use it.

[@micindir4213]

Hi there Justin! This episode was surprisingly uninformative for me. I've worked as mastering engineer for last 9 months or so and plan to do more of it! I must preface by saying, that I master for electronic ambient label, so there are many long synth notes with lush reverbs. It's like 80% of the material I get, but still I think it applies to different material as well. So I think its remarkably useful for SOME types of music. Rock or electronic pop - not so much. But for more niche electronics it might be very useful. M/S is probably first thing I do by way of Q3. Side high shelf at 10K is very common, as many mixes I get are dull and bottom-heavy. I master for vinyl too, so mono bass is on every track ( side high cut at 60-80-100). Also bell eq to bring out ambience ( +3 for side, -3 for mid) is one of many techniques I use. Again, compressing sides and bringing them up to level may result in incredible ambience for a track, that's a bit dry. C2 has separate M/S wet / dry outputs, and MB has M/S balance. So most of Fabfilter suite has ability to work on M/S in a surgical , precise and clean way. My chain is more or less like this: tonal balance / mix error fixes m/s control compression (slow attack, fast release) / saturation tonal re-balance compression ( fast attack/ slow release ) / limiting Have I missed something? I'm binging your tips for each process, looking for more

[@dariofromthefuture3075]

I learned a lot from this. Thanks man.

[@Vyanzz]

Hi Justin, so sometimes when I try to seperate the mid from the side, the side became faded and not recognizable and it more focused into the mid.. why is that?

[@SonicScoop]

If you are compressing the sides relative to the mids, then they are going to come down in level. Same if you are doing lots of EQ cuts to the sides. Remember to use make up gain! Hope that helps, -Justin

[@glenallan6279]

All this seems to be talking about post processing. Any thoughts on mid/side while recording? Different compressors/pres and boards have this during the input stage.

[@aylo.mp3]

in the mix has a new video on it

[@rosemayangwa]

Yes

[@shandani7215]

Dude, you belong on the Star Trek Enterprise. The hair, man, the hair.

[@SonicScoop]

I’ll take it! What you can’t see, is that at this time, my hair was about a foot long. It was just tied up in the back. -Justin

[@shandani7215]

@@SonicScoop I hope you know it was just a fun poke. I love your tutorials. And the hair too, actually. It's different and uniquely you. Cheers. Don't change it. haha.

[@SonicScoop]

Too late, I cut it all of years ago! 😆 It’s a normal person length now. -Justin

[@noahvandenabeele]

Thanks for the explanation. What l find quite confusing is that you compare the sides with hard panned instruments, but hard panned instruments are also present in the mids or you woudn’t hear them in mono. The sides are only the left and right channel with inversed polarity and will dissapear completely when listening in mono. That’s how l understand it, correct me if l’m wrong..

[@SonicScoop]

Not exactly. But I like how you are thinking! The sides would only disappear in mono if they were polar opposites of eachother. This is what occurs with the *mid side mic technique*, but it’s not what is happening in other forms of mid side processing. If you apply mid side processing to stereo material, the “side” channel contains all the audio content that is not identical in the left and right channels. The “mid” channel is all the audio that is identical on both sides, and the “sides” channel is all the audio that isn’t. Only the content that is *exactly the opposite* (aka, polarity inverted) from left to right would be canceled out when summed to mono. Everything else stays intact when folding down to mono. I hope that helps! Any further questions, just let me know. -Justin

[@noahvandenabeele]

@@SonicScoop But we do agree that all the processing done exclusively on the side channel dissapear completely in mono? That's my experience..(try side EQ in mono and you won't hear any difference) So that means that the side EQ only happens on the inverted polarity between left and right and only 50% of the hard panned instruments, due to the fact that hard panned is 90 degree and not 180 degree? Or am I missing something?

[@noahvandenabeele]

@@SonicScoop I did further investigation and my explanation is the right one. Hard panned instruments are also present in the mids, that's why it's kind of a parrallell processing due to the fact that hard panned sounds are 50% in the side and 50 % in the mid. Quite important information to correctly undesrtand M/S processing...

[@karadytube]

❤ Can we use standard EQ only on the vocal track to reduce sibilance, without using mid-side EQ on the entire mix?❤ BIG thanks

[@SonicScoop]

Of course! At the mixing stage, treating tracks individually is preferable to using global mid side processing. Mid side really becomes relevant in mastering, stem and sample situations where you don’t have control over the individual elements. -Justin

[@karadytube]

Wow thank you for your fast reply, big fan ❤

[@DerekRNeumann]

Link below to dolby encoding bundle. The 3.1 setup you refer to is called "theatre dimensional" (at least on my surround processor at home) neyrinck.com/soundcode/soundcode-dolby-digital-2/

[@chaddonal4331]

Is "Mid/Side" processing always identical to "Sum/Difference"?

[@UPPERKELLER]

Can someone explain mid sie difference to stereo?

[@fluctura]

Left, Center, Right processing in Logic... take a track, set to Stereo pan. Move pos to hard left -90 to -45. Duplicate the track. Do the same, this time -45 to +45 (CENTER). Duplicate again, this time +45 to 90. Now you've got 3 signals, split into left, center, right. Each channel can be processed independently, even if none of your plugins support that logic. Make sure u use stereo-link in the plugins as the plugin thinks it is affecting the full stereo field... even tho it only affects 1/3 of it

[@fluctura]

btw I'm a developer... the idea of left, center, right processing is interesting. I might develop a plugin to split into 3 channels so you can send-route them to 3 independent mixer tracks in your DAW... and can get rid of the duplication/signal split trick I described before. What do you think?

[@One_of_Many750]

That’s What I Thought. It Seems Its Only Used Mainly For Mastering, And I Have Yet To See Any Information, or Videos, Using It As A Track Is Mixed.

[@sINGLE_hANDED]

Great doubt on this tho = I understand that M/S channel aren't really independent, since every signal (even when it's completely panned on R or L) is part of the MID channel in M/S split anyway (Mid = Left + Right)... therefore, when we EQ or Compress Side channel, we also always impact the Mid signal, probably at phase level at least.

[@SonicScoop]

Sure, any sound that isn’t hard panned or panned dead center has some presence in both the mid and side channels. Yet, compressing or EQing things in mid side has a different effect than doing so in stereo. Phase shift, though something does happen with EQ on parallel channels, isn’t nearly as big of a factor as some make it out to be. That said, be aware that steep lo or hi filters on one channel but not the other may have a slightly different effect than anticipated. Hope that helps! -Justin

[@sINGLE_hANDED]

@@SonicScoop Thanks so much Justin, I really appreciate your knowledge and kindness! I recognize there's some fanatism against M/S treatment out there, because of the linked nature of each audio signal -no matter where's panned-but I feel like M/S is worth a try if you don't exaggerate and if paying attention to the possible artifacts that it could generate. I wouldn't push myself too much with M/S processing tho, i.e. hard-cutting all low-end on side-channel trying to make it mono or similar (like someone suggests), since I'm afraid this would generate a great impact on the mid-channel phase anyway, risking to degrade the overall result (i.e. removing depth and punch from the low-end) instead that making it better. Thanks again ˜Andrea

[@rogeliopadilla8438]

yes, live q & a...

[@zinablebeatz8857]

Why the f.. is ma snare changin when i use the m/s compressor? I mix everythin in mono, then use the multicompressor, Then the compressor, then make everythin louder, It sounds amazin. But when i use the ms, it effects ma snare.. wtf?

[@RichSoundsMusic]

Anyone ever see the show Happy?? You know the surgical torture dude?? This guy looks just like him lol

[@Shkodo]

Lmao true

[@FloridaBands]

interesting

[@thatomajozi5824]

You look like the guy from star treck !

[@SonicScoop]

Which one??

[@markmallinder7618]

This video is talking about mastering engineers fixing problems that should be fixed at the mixing stage, not at the mastering stage. Mastering engineers should not be messing with this stuff. That’s why modern music sounds so shite!

[@lorez6063]

Q&A's... yawn. How about you show us some stuff. Real world examples etc. I have watched a fair few of your videos, and they are all talk. Useful stuff for the most part but maybe get some visuals in there. If you are teaching us about mid side, show us a processor (any processor, doesn't matter) and show us the examples you bring up. It's more work but it will pay off. Thanks for the content.

[@SonicScoop]

Fortunately, we have DOZENS of videos on this channel where Justin cracks open the DAW and shows off some methods in real time with examples you can see and hear. Try some of our playlists here: kzbin.info/aero/PL3yghKGBjggQSZLSt4xBAT0Ov4OifigmG kzbin.info/aero/PL3yghKGBjggSm8Kl2ncoGrNx09qxvchNg kzbin.info/aero/PL3yghKGBjggT19eqj3XgUlNcAIl9R_kPm The podcast is a podcast so it doesn't really feature that kind of thing. It's a talking format :) In either case, seeing and hearing other people work in their DAW is good. Learning core concepts any applying them in your own DAW is even better! That's where REAL breakthroughs come from. That said, watching other people work in their DAWs can be pretty fun. Here's hoping you enjoy some of the many videos linked to above!

[@DrAudioBot]

Justin Ra his talk is gold and more worth than most of what I see on YT. I resonate with everything he says 100%

[@miningbagsofgoldprospectin289]

Imagine that. Another producer who can't listen.

[@lorez6063]

Thanks Sonic Scoop. I am new to the channel (and I like it) so have only caught the last 5 - 10 videos. I will go back and check out your playlists. I didn't realise you were doing this as a podcast at the same time, so I guess it makes sense to kill two birds with one stone. I think when you said you want to do Q&A's, I just had this fear that you would go the route of so many of my favourite KZbin education channels, who used to make cool tutorials and educational stuff, but now they just sit and answer questions that are not even relevant to the channel they built.

[@DJSTOEK]

Thanks

[@SonicScoop]

Welcome! -Justin