What Is The Best ICF Floor Truss Hanger || Simpson, Ledger, Watkins

[@brianfuller8957]

I'm going to make a 2x4 wall to sit the trusses on. Building inspector said I was the first to come up with it and approved of it. Great area to staple my wiring to, hide my hydronic heat pipes into, nice to drywall to. My argument was " if 2x4's can hold a house up, 2x4's should be able to hold the first floor up". Plus I can add fiberglass insulation for even better performance!!

[@Challenged1]

No problem with it. I would be curious as to the cost difference between hangers and the 2x4 wall.

[@bkucinschi]

My new favorite channel on KZbin.

[@Challenged1]

You're too kind!!!

[@bkucinschi]

@@Challenged1 : I mean it. I want to start building an ICF house next spring, and you bring in a lot of information not available or very diluted on other channels. Last year I bought a 4 acre piece of land, quite cheap before the current building craziness ( we are in South-Eastern Michigan). ICF is not too popular over here, you can rarely see even an ICF basement. But I have a buider friend who about four years ago poured two rental houses with FoxBlocks, and totally sold me the ICF concept. He ordered his FoxBlocks from Menards. I'm a mechanical engineer, like metal more than lumber... I am looking into Clark-Dietrich systems for metal joists (Tradeready). Basically we want a one-story house with finished basement, about 2400 ft2, simplifies the heating and plumbing compared to a two-story structure, and is more consistent with the building style in that area.

[@Challenged1]

@@bkucinschi I'm glad to help.

[@josephtoman-xr2qu]

On a Quad-Lock and Quad-Deck build, I would use RP Watkins truss hanger for Ceiling Hangers !

[@richardheinen1126]

I believe Watkins is the way to go.

[@Challenged1]

Agreed!!!

[@Kevinwbaker100]

Thanks for the comparison. I was going to use the “J” bolt method but now looking into the Watkins bracket.

[@Challenged1]

Glad to help

[@Challenged1]

BTW, I have 34 leftover from my project, which I can make you a deal on if you get to the point of buying.

[@Kevinwbaker100]

@@Challenged1 might be interested. Are they 2 1/2"?

[@Challenged1]

@@Kevinwbaker100 3-1/2"

[@joshualruby]

When you are making your comparison make sure you know your options for rim board. I haven’t used an LVL in years (because they are expensive and break screws left and right when you are setting it in place), so have used pressure treated 2x12s, non treated 2x12s, and 1-1/4” rimboard. Rimboard is my favorite (straight, light weight) , then standard (straighter than pressure treated and stronger), then pressure treated (rarely need to, maybe exterior only for decks), then LVL. Also, I typically go with two 5/8” bolts every 32”, and have not needed more than that, it serves better than 1/2” spaced closer as I have less holes to do. I haven’t used the brackets before but Watkins does sound interesting and I may look into it for my future projects.

[@rickbabcock6397]

I used USP#IFH178 they were poured in place, way better than ledger. I did everything unconventional. Poured slab in basement on footer first in line with the inside of ICF,set first coarse against slab. Set ICF one coarse above floor set hangers on temporary 2x4 ledger put 2x4 under ledger every 2 feet .Installed TJI's 16o.c. laid subfloor t&g .Then poured walls with concrete pump. Concrete pumper liked walking around subfloor to pour walls. Poured walls just above floor to cover hangers. Then continued walls up to first floor roofline

[@clydesolomon8533]

How tall were your ICF blocks when you made your first pour ? If I’m understanding you correctly you build your floor system before you poured your first walls is that correct? I’m not going with a basement but I was thinking of doing the same thing, did it work out ok? Thanks

[@rickbabcock6397]

@@clydesolomon8533 I had one coarse of ICF above floor, the basement was 8' so walls were over 9'. It worked fine. After doing it this way there was an article in Fine Home Building magazine that did something similar.

[@petertate8465]

How do you avoid the braces when you install the horizontal board that holds the bottom of the Watkins ties?

[@Challenged1]

You can't. You'll have to cut board sections at specific lengths to span between the braces.

[@sailingfreakshow]

I like the look of that Watkins bracket. I would have thought it would make sense to have a vertical plane at the point the sides stop going into the wall thought so that if you are either lucky enough or have planned your floor system so you hit a furring strip, you could screw straight into it not only for rigidity during the pouring, but also for a little extra strength long term. Actually thinking about it, that could hybridize the j bolt system

[@Challenged1]

I like the idea. Just might increase the cost of the bracket to manufacture since there would be several extra steps to accomplish this.

[@louisanderson5792]

Maybe another method of installing a wood floor system would be to install a brick ledge icf from at the floor location and set the floor trusses on the brick ledge. Thoughts? Thanks

[@Challenged1]

Yes you can. The brickledge blocks are tough to support during the pour filling the blocks. They want to rotate, and since the brickledge would be facing in, you would have to brace from the outside.

[@jamesonkruger6989]

I poured a 10" basement with a 6" upper walls leaving a 4 inch ledge. It is very simple but you need to consider the expansion of the floor sheeting.

[@darrenjosephson3]

isn't the 2X4 that you put in to hold the Watkins brackets in the way of your ICF wall (PLUMB) wall supports ?

[@Challenged1]

You can use short lengths of 2x4, scrap pieces

[@tomcallan6099]

Hello Garrett love the videos. Question whit the rising cost of lumber, what is the pros and cons of having the first floor done via Hollow-core concrete. I have seen this done once and in less than a day they were able to install the Spancrete on the entire first floor and they began stacking ICF block the same day.

[@Challenged1]

Sounds like a neat idea, and saves time too. I have no idea as to the cost of these, but would assume the load bearing walls would have to be more plentiful, built to a higher standard and the footings would need to be larger (all more expensive). You would also have to build bulkheads to run all of your ductwork, plumbing and electrical, and have a crane to set them in place (not as DIY). I would assume they would be more sound resistant, fire resistant, and much stiffer, therefore, no floor bounce (all pros). My assumption is, overall they would be much more expensive even with today's lumber prices, but I could be wrong.

[@SumFugaziSalt]

Hi Garret, excellent information. I am in the process of designing an ICF home as well and had a similar question. Have you looked into the quad deck or Lite Form roof system instead of a wood trussing floor/roof? I'm wondering if that may be equal to or less than floor joists, OSB, insulation ect at the current prices.

[@darrenjosephson3]

Does using ICF blocks make it difficult to get or use the internet inside of your home. ? Using asphalt shingles.

[@Challenged1]

No

[@oleglukas]

Hi. Thank you for idea. What is rough cost of the Watkins hangers?

[@Challenged1]

Roughly $24 per hanger

[@fdollen]

Great content! How much clearance did you have between the walls and floor trusses? I'm ordering my floor trusses soon for our ICF build, and was curious how much shorter the truss should be than the inside dimension of the walls. I was thinking 1/2" shorter? What would you suggest?

[@Challenged1]

1/2" on each side

[@markstipulkoski1389]

I don't like the last part for the Wadkins method, shimming. Method 2, the j bolt method, seems like the cheapest and most forgiving. Also, Kode on his channel, did thermal images of those hangers and they provide a lot of surfarce area to conduct heat from the interior to the concrete core. In method 2, yes you cut out blocks of foam for each j bolt, but you cover it up with the ledger board. Actually, you could probably put back a 1 inch slice of the foam block that you had cut out to provide a thermal break between the concrete and the ledger. Just my two cents.✌️

[@Ifishmo]

Garrett, what height of walls did you go with in the basement? what about top floor? If you were to do it again, would change the heights at all? (taller/shorter)? Also, was your house designed/optimized for ICF? ie. Window/Door header/sills designed around natural block height (no modifying block heights)? Thanks and great content so far!

[@Challenged1]

From the footings to the ceiling is 9', then 20" floor trusses, then 10' of main floor walls. I think I got all of the heights right, so no change. I don't know that I would say the plans were optimized for icf, but I was able to make field adjustments, mainly to the height of the windows.

[@louisanderson5792]

Question. Can you install a double lvl ledger and top load the trusses to sit on top of the double ledger?

[@Challenged1]

I'm sure you can. It would be cheaper to use top chord load bearing trusses though with a single lvl. Then you wouldn't have a bulkhead.

[@louisanderson5792]

My first thought would be that an inch and three-quarter LVL is not enough bearing thickness so doubling up would give you 3 1/2 inches of bearing. Also maybe I’m misunderstanding you about the bulkhead. The LVL that you would use would be the same height as your floor system... The double LVL would be flush to the top and flush to the bottom of your floor truss

[@louisanderson5792]

Actually that’s not true the LVL would actually have to be 3 inches lower than the top of the floor truss to compensate for the top loading cords

[@Challenged1]

@@louisanderson5792 I misread your comment, you are correct no bulkhead for your example. I still think the Watkins hangers would be cheaper, faster and easier.

[@terrydoyle1765]

Two questions. Did you use the RP Watkins for the ''first and last'' truss or go with a rim joist? I'm assuming that you would only be able to fasten one side of the joist or truss to those hangers that are running parallel and tight to a wall?

[@Challenged1]

2x4 rim joist on both edges. My basement blocks are 8" core, while my main floor are 6" core (outside walls are straight, inside has the step-in). My subfloor sits on this 8" to 6" transition as well as the 2x4.

[@Challenged1]

Correct on your second point

[@jmaas37]

hey Garrett was there any particular reason you didn't use an icf floor?

[@Challenged1]

More expensive and I needed a place to put all my wiring, plumbing, ductwork, etc.

[@davidgoodwin5778]

Using the Watkins what happens if you land on a ICF stud?

[@Challenged1]

If it is dead center or very near, the hanger will fit right over it. If not, cut the plastic stud to make the hanger fit (Sawzall)

[@darrenjosephson3]

Where can I buy the LP Watkins hangers ?

[@Challenged1]

Link in the description

[@darrenjosephson3]

sorry but I cannot find the link ?

[@Challenged1]

@@darrenjosephson3 watkinshanger.com/

[@Alphasig336]

Slab gravel and foam.

[@Alphasig336]

Termite feeding highway

[@Alphasig336]

Pour an ICF floor. Trusses suck