WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THRASH AND SPEED METAL? (Genre differences)

[@evanencell7421]

Make heavy faster, you get speed, make speed more agressive, you get thrash, make speed more melodic, you get power

[@BoundInChains]

Excellent summarisation, imo.

[@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844]

And make thrash heavier, and you have Death Metal. Make that heavier, and you have brutal death metal.

[@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844]

Make heavy lighter and less fast and you have hard rock. Lighter, rock and roll. Lighter, rhythm and blues. Lighter…

[@Hatchyack]

@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 that's a good way to put it, where does black metal fit into all this though?

[@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844]

@@Hatchyack make speed or thrash dark and add tremolo picking and shrieking and you get black metal

[@uriahfaust8476]

Back in 82-83 when metal bands began getting faster (because of the influence of Punk and Motorhead) we just called it Speed Metal. Later it split into Thrash and Power Metal. So Speed Metal was just a transitional label we slapped on the bands that played faster and more aggressively than the NWOBHM bands...At one point we even tossed around Power Metal, hence the very early description of Metallica as such. Back then metal was just beginning to split into the first tier of sub genres and we were figuring out what to call the new sounds. So as an old dude lived it , I can say categorically that Speed Metal gave rise to Thrash, they are NOT parallel forms.

[@OriginalKingRichTv]

Venom definitely thrashes. But they're considered speed metsl

[@ShoanSnoday]

It is SO hard to explain this to younger metalheads. They have some kind of narrative that I am unable to describe. They will say, "No, that's not right." And I am like, "I WAS THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED!" It's like trying to explain how (and why) people dressed back then.

[@wernermoritz882]

Great comment! I have a question for you as someone very knowledgeable about genre classifications: How would you classify Motörhead? Thanks a lot!

[@GabrielRodriguez-nw7sv]

Rage, Grave Digger, Accept, Running Wild, Blind Guardian, Judas Priest, Motorhead & Anvil are pioneers of speed metal, speed metal spawned between 1970 - 1980 meanwhile thrash metal spawned between 1981 - 1983 with bands such as Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Sodom, Kreator Tankard, Destruction.

[@chrisdowling8094]

@@wernermoritz882 Prototype Speed Metal.

[@gwaptiva]

The confusion between the two styles derives from the fact that in the early 80s we only had the word 'speed metal' which we applied to everything that was faster and louder than NWOHBM-style metal: Metallica, Venom. It took quite a while (at least, it did in NL) for the term 'thrash' to appear

[@timbrown6629]

Exactly! Speed metal was around quite a few years before the punk elements caused the evolution to thrash.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yes, that's often the case, even though the term thrash was from a review of Anthrax 1984 album Fistful of Metal, it might take a few years before people get onboard.

[@michaelpachuau3885]

@@RuthlessMetalYT er the term thrashing was used in Kill Em All itself, so it's seeds were from the very beginning itself

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@RuthlessMetalYT The term thrash existed before Anthrax, it came from punk first, specifically Thrash was a term used by British punk bands a lot when describing a lot of the newer, faster punk bands that were emerging in the late 70s and early 80s.

[@paulojrg]

To me the first full-on thrash band was Kreator the other were all too deep yet in their metal roots.

[@Kai-pk7dv]

Ironically, thrash often sounds faster than speed

[@shred5]

Speed metal is largely Judas Priest or Iron Maiden played faster. Thrash is a little harder to explain, but it's probably best embodied as a style by early Testament and select Metallica songs.

[@geopoliticskenya]

nope, nope, nopes

[@namelessalias0007]

Thrash sounds faster because thrash is usually more complex. Speed metal tends flows together.

[@MaskedRiderChris]

@@shred5 Ahem ahem...*deep breath* SLAAAYEEEEERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! If "Hell Awaits" doesn't embody thrash metal at its fastest and most frenzied until that one legendary album after it, then what does? No disrespect your way, of course.

[@Hellohallo]

agreed, bands like death, sepultura,

[@fredericremillard9912]

My fav speed metal album ever: Helloween - Walls of Jericho... before the morph into power metal

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

classic!

[@amk8411]

Good call, Frederic!

[@thomasfarmer1730]

Yes.....that album is true speed metal

[@HivernaalChannel]

Really love this one !

[@altrn0]

@@RuthlessMetalYT Running Wild first album and bg 1s, pure speed metal.

[@philipdeppen3644]

Gotta love Metal Church for blending the two so perfectly well. Incredible sound on their Metal Church debut album. Imo the best metal debut album

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yes, I agree, remarkable debut.

[@kurtzcol]

me too i love that album

[@mmdoof]

It's a really masterful album in blending the different flavours of heavy metal and own innovation. They're one of the biggest 'what if' bands for me - I truly think they could've been better than the big four had they chosen to go more extreme instead of more power metal.

[@sawbonesquad4876]

A topic that has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yes, it's probably the main topic after Dave vs. Metallica and The big four discussions. :)

[@dvir12345]

Same

[@Limited_Light]

@@RuthlessMetalYT I was wondering this in ... 1984? Band by band, song by song, that's what matters.

[@Navili502]

How I'd make the distinction is that "Speed Metal" is a pure subgenre of "Heavy Metal" that's been significantly "sped-up" especially in how the drums are played. "Thrash Metal" is a fusion-genre of (hardcore) Punk Rock music and Heavy Metal music.

[@Navili502]

Although, I'd argue Motorhead is more important to Thrash Metal than any Punk band was... In many ways Motorhead was "Punk Rock" that was easily digestible for headbangers.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

it doesn't have to be sped-up heavy metal, it can more primitive than that, just like the sound that motorhead and venom later put forth.

[@Navili502]

@@RuthlessMetalYT many "speed metal bands" do have slow or mid tempo tracks. Such as Exciter's "Mistress of Evil". I don't consider these to be speed metal tracks despite what you may say about the band. I don't expect every heavy metal song to be speed metal and that's fine.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@Navili502 yes, all bands experimented with more than one genre in most cases I would say. But when a band plays 90 percent thrash I think we can call them thrash. :)

[@Hamring]

To me, Speed Metal always has a retro feel to it, while thrash can still feel modern and contemporary. Which might be related to what you are saying. But my interpretation might not be the same as other peoples. As will all genres for me its more of a feel thing. As unimportant as it is i also love to discuss and speculate about it

[@christophergase1468]

Speed ​​Metal is based on the fast paced songs of Judas Priest and Thrash is based on Punk and Hardcore ... in my opinion

[@hanc37]

Slayer would be a fusion of Judas Priest, Thrash, Punk and Hardcore...

[@hanc37]

@@GladeSwope Obviously you are being sarcastic... I hope. lol

[@fuselpeter5393]

Herr Gase, so trifft man sich also auch mal im YT-Kommentarbereich. :D

[@fastdrumming]

Judas priest and iron maiden in the early 1980s

[@MGdelOeste]

Is a kind of crossover between those fast Priest/Maiden/Accept... songs and some hardcore punk elements, depending on the band really

[@Tomasu1980]

Here in Poland we have a old metal band called Turbo. This band started in 1980. Through the years the played started from early 80s Hard Rock/heavy metal, then speed metal, thrash (1985-1987) and then thrash/death and even death metal in late 80/beginning 90, then in 90 they played modern heavy metal to power metal, and even symphonic metal. The best albums of them for me are: Turbo - Kawaleria Szatana Turbo - Ostatni Wojownik (last warrior) Turbo - epidemic Turbo - Dorosłe dzieci Helloween with Walls of Jericho/Judas ep is for sure not speed metal, nor thrash, but pure 80's heavy metal. They play power metal. By the way Pantera has an album called Power Metal. Greetings from Poland from old Helloween fan

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yes, Turbo were greatQ

[@ramonw9430]

But Power Metal by Pantera isn't power metal at all. It's pure groove metal and the first album in the subgenre in my opinion. I mean if nobody told you it was Pantera it just sounds like Power Trip a lot of the time.

[@hockeyeverything4339]

Love the Vio-lence outro. Possibly the most underrated thrash album of all time

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

it's great! Cheers!

[@peterrevens8454]

Great album! Their singer's got his own unique style.

[@hockeyeverything4339]

@@peterrevens8454 It took me a few listens to overcome the vocals. But, miraculously, I came to absolutely love them. So much, in fact, that I named my cat Killian after him

[@mikereif3104]

they were interchangeable back in the 80s. I had a compilation album called "Speed Kills - The Very Best of Speed Metal" it had Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Venom, Exodus, Exciter, Voi Vod and a couple other bands on it. I also remember getting a Megadeth poster that said "The State of the Art Speed Metal Band". All the same to me. I consider Lemmy the Godfather of Thrash before Hetfield, Mustaine or Cronos.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yes, but slayer and metallica was called power metal too.

[@mikereif3104]

@@RuthlessMetalYT true. Some people used to refer to Slayer as Death Metal. Death Metal also used to be called Grind. Like I said, all the same to me.

[@seanmalley]

To me Thrash had more grooves that made you want to bang your head, more tempo changes throughout a song as well.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah definitely more tempo changes. speed metal was mostly just pumping speed the whole way through. hehe

[@weiwurschtis9655]

Good Thrash is like Punk x2,5😉

[@matthewibach767]

Thrash makes more use of chromatic passages as well, I think.

[@b0gster]

Thrash metal makes you thrash around

[@akakgak]

Same. The definitions seem really out of touch with the usage I've seen over the years.

[@irmasil3]

Since Dave Mustaine the Godfather and Inventor of "Thrash" called his own music in Metallica and early Megadeth "Speed Metal" in many interviews, it is safe to say that this is how Thrash Metal bands identified themselves. When the term "Thrash" came into term, they more or less identified with the term. I am pretty convinced that the term "speed metal" came earlier (and I bet my money, it was Dave Mustaine who introduced it, for a fact it is stated by him as early as 1982 or so...) than "thrash: and it would be interested to see where the term "Thrash" derived from...and by whom.

[@Kowinaida]

Term.

[@luizfernandoribeiro4309]

thats why he wanted to create a band faster than metallica...speed metal

[@tonytendencies4698]

Yes. I went and looked at the back of my Megadeth t-shirt I got at a concert when they were touring for the Peace Sells album. It has the below print. megadeth 1. Unit of measurement equal to the death of one million people by nuclear explosion. 2. The world's state of the art speed metal band.

[@irmasil3]

@@luizfernandoribeiro4309 "They say when I left Metallica I wanted to be faster and better than them...That's a lie! I was better and faster the Metallica when I was IN Metallica....." Dave Mustaine :)

[@JimmyMon666]

I still have my t-shirt from Megadeth's So Far So Good So What tour (they opened for Dio), and the back of the t-shirt calls themselves a speed metal band. Granted, the band themselves may not have created the t-shirt. Honestly, I don't see enough differences to be noteworthy. Some of his speed metal classifications in this video I might classify as power metal to be honest. On my labels for my mp3 I use speed and thrash interchangeably. edit: apparently I have the same t-shirt as Tony above. Though I got mine from a different tour.

[@asb1jou]

To be frank, Exciter's piece of a song on 3:19 feels like thrash and match thrash's definition and style. It reminds Metallica with Mustaine in No Life 'Till Leather times, especially the riff which resembles Hit the Lights.

[@redbullnshimano1]

It closely sounded more like Anthrax's Panic to me. But I'd agree, it sounded thrashy rather than speedy. Nevertheless its all METAL music irregardless. Thats all that we metalheads cared about. Peace ✌️ yo 🙏

[@javiercoronado9194]

What's the song name

[@asb1jou]

@@javiercoronado9194 What do you mean?) All song names are here in the comments.

[@megametal8641]

Hit the Lights is speed metal, which is why it obviously sounds different than most other Metallica songs. The easiest way to tell the difference between speed and thrash is to play guitar, it's pretty obvious which is which when you actually play the two styles on guitar, completely different. Power metal which can be sort of similar sounding to speed metal (to some people anyways), is completely different to play on guitar as well.

[@rejiix]

All I know is that Painkiller is the perfect speed metal song

[@tons824]

Fast as a shark

[@sharlee5121]

nah that’s a perfect speed metal ALBUM

[@fastdrumming]

Freewheel Burning. 1983. Judas Priest.

[@megametal8641]

Lol Painkiller is a great song but certainly not speed metal.

[@pastorofreality3198]

This has been the biggest issue I have been struggling with in my life since the 1980's. Now that the Speed vs Thrash Metal debate has been resolved I can move on with my life. 😆 Thanks! KEEP ON ROCKING! 🤘

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Finally! :) 🤘😁🤘

[@erikheddergott5514]

@@RuthlessMetalYT I think the Game now must be following the differentiation of the newly arising Offspring of those great and powerful Incubators.

[@kurtrusselltownmassacre6802]

Dude you included Holy Terror! It's so rare to hear about them anywhere so thumbs up for that. Mind wars is probably in the top 50 metal albums ever made.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yes, I interviewed Holy Terror some 20 years ago, cool band. :) Definitely an underrated band.

[@НиколаТрифуновић-с2и]

Yeah, that one really took me by surprise

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@НиколаТрифуновић-с2и :) Yeah, I've been doing thrash interviews and reviews online since 1998.

[@Canuck1000]

Yes, I used to love Holy Terror (I even saw them live in support of Kreator and DRI). They were a thrash band. I never considered them as 'speed metal'.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@Canuck1000 Yeah they were more thrashvI would say but they had some songs that sounded a bit like Metal Church.

[@robbarham9595]

Speed metal vocals can usually be described as actual singing. Thrash metal vocals can usually be described as yelling in key.

[@misterknightowlandco]

In key was optional…

[@MGdelOeste]

Joey Belladona disagree

[@chavo7775]

@@MGdelOeste lol yes

[@princealigorna7468]

While I tend to agree, especially with vocalists like Araya and Petrozza, there's for sure thrash vocalists who are just pure singers, like Belladonna, or who do both, like Billy and Blitz. I actually think those two guys are among the most underrated singers in metal. How do you hear "Alone in the Dark" or "The Ritual ", or "Wrecking Crew" or "Years of Decay" and not get blown away?

[@stenchaholic]

In the 80s here in So Cal, I never heard the term Thrash Metal. It was Speed Metal to us at that time. Thrash didn't enter the lexicon here until the early 90s. I always just figured Thrash was an updated term for Speed Metal. The more you know!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah, several genres has been tossed around. Slayer was even called power metal for a while so. :)

[@scotthansen8127]

I also grew up in So Cal, graduated in 88. The term thrash came out about 86 with bands like Venom, Slayer and Exodus. Also with the crossover bands DRI, English Dogs, COC. I always considered speed metal as bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Maiden. Motörhead was kinda a mix of both.

[@CABALDRUMMER]

In Summary, Speedsters are the bastard sons of Judas Priest, while the Thrashers are the bastard children of Motorhead!!! Enjoy your Metal 🤘🏼

[@diabeticmonkey]

Exactly

[@alexforbes5435]

You get it brotha

[@superaveragebros.9390]

i dunno0 bro motorhead and priest have a pretty decent influence on both

[@CABALDRUMMER]

@@superaveragebros.9390 Agreed, it's a very simplistic, or minimalist way to try and explain it, especially for the uninitiated,...

[@pathogenoxide6917]

Yep, sounds about right.

[@hernanrojas6749]

Nice video, it's always been hard to tell Speed from Thrash, specially in the big four. I'll say most of the confusion is because around 81-83, Metallica, Anthrax and Slayer started as faster and more technical mixtures of NWOBHM and punk, without caring much for giving the style a name. Then, Metallica kicked Mustaine out (according to Scott Ian, the inventor of the thrash metal riffing and the "Hetfield before Hetfield") and his way to get even was to play faster and more aggressively than them (I'd say even more technically), so it's natural that he called his style "Speed Metal". As the 80s went on, these bands developed and expanded their sonic spectrum, experimenting with slower, punchier sounds and with more chromatic harmonies, far from Heavy Metal's Minor Pentatonic scale, making it much harder to say whether they were Speed or Thrash. But this ultimately separated them from the bunch that stayed the same (Exodus, Overkill), hence their wide influence: as Thrash/Speed metal bands, they influenced a second wave of great thrash metal bands all over the world: Testament, Annihilator, Kreator, Sepultura, Pantera, etc. Metallica and Megadeth, the more progressive, cleaner acts, influenced Prog Metal of all sorts: Dream Theater, Messhuggah, Gojira, etc. Slayer, the most evil, through their twisted chromaticisms and the amazing drumming of Dave Lombardo influenced Death Metal, 2nd-wave Black Metal, Scandinavian Metal, etc. Anthrax (and their spin-offs Nuclear Assault, S.O.D) influenced Hardcore Punk, Grindcore (Charlie Benante gets credit for the blast beat) and then Groove Metal, Rap Metal and Nu Metal. So, hard to say. Speed or Thrash?

[@MGdelOeste]

I'd say Groove Metal was a mixture between the more melodic and the more punk-influenced thrash sides, adding 70s hard rock and some early 80s metal (specially British Steel and the like) to the mix. Also, I think the more melodic/progressive thrash bands influenced modern-day power metal

[@dragstar4407]

Its all heavy metal to me. Some heavier than others, some faster than others, we're all in it together.

[@klinkov6393]

Love this, you hit the nail on the head my friend.

[@thomasfarmer1730]

🤘

[@Grizzletopz]

Speed/Thrash/Death/Black

[@richardpaul4205]

Yep!

[@Rober2D2]

I agree. Distinctions among genres has become so fine grained, that it is ridiculous. Most songs fit in several of them.

[@cabalofdemons]

This video gives the best explanation of both sub-genres. I've said for decades that thrash and speed metal are interchangeable terms. However, there are differences between the subgenres. Thrash is more abrasive, with a strong hardcore punk influence. Speed metal is fast but draws more from traditional heavy metal than punk rock. I'd argue Megadeth straddles the line between thrash and speed metal. "Hangar 18" is a speed metal song, but "Devil's Island" is a thrash track.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

I would say that hangar 18 is thrashier than devils island, it's more technical. :)

[@cabalofdemons]

@@RuthlessMetalYT Fair enough. However my reasoning is Hangar 18 is cleaner than Devil's Island both vocally and musically. The guitar solos are more complex.

[@adamwolfram6126]

I was a skateboarder in Pennsylvania/Maryland from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. Skating was also referred to as Thrashing by some, possibly because of the well loved skate publication "Thrasher" (founded 1981). Of course, as a counter-culture, we only used this term in a tongue-in-cheek manner. In my community, what we now call "Thrash" music was primarily what we listened to. The tempo and aggressive sound go perfectly with skating. It also put you in a zone where shedding a little blood wasn't going to slow you down, but give you the rush and will to push harder. I always figured the namesake of the music genre came about from that very association. Crossover bands like Suicidal Tendencies, S.O.D., and D.R.I., as well as hardcore bands were loved by the group, but Thrash was at the core -- at least in my group, in the 80's. It took hardcore a while to get to us. For reference, I was born in 1977. I started listening to Thrash and skating in 1986.

[@dvir12345]

Damn I just thought about it yesterday, I'm glad you're making a video about it!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah, it's one of those things that people talk the most about, genre definitions, and especially between speed and thrash. 🤘🏻

[@RealityCheckTV]

This is DannyShipman from Reality Check TV in san Francisco. As someone who was there in the beginning,in it's infancy thrash metal,speed metal,power metal,and even death metal all meant the same thing. Anything satanic was black metal but could be labeled thrash i it was super fast and heavy. personally, I always viewed Metal Church as good 'ol heavy metal like Armored Saint or Grim Reaper. Too heavy for glam rockers but too slow for thrashers.

[@Canuck1000]

I agree with Metal Church. I never considered them as thrash or speed metal. They had a few speed metal songs, but the were basic heavy metal.

[@unorthodoxtrotsky]

Back in the 80's, terms "speed metal" and "thrash metal" was used interchangeably although the term "speed metal" was used much less than the term "thrash metal."(In fact, the term "Speed metal" was used less and less throughout the 80's) Speed is part of characteristic in thrash. But there were certain thrash metal bands who utilized speed more than others. That caused some people to refer to those bands as "speed metal" bands. But people did that within thrash metal umbrella. But like I said, the term "speed metal" lost its meaning because the term "thrash metal" was way more preferred term. I remember talking with my friends about "What really is speed metal?" And we really didn't had any answers.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Exciter, Anvil, Abattoir = Speed, Megadeth, Kreator, Metallica = Thrash.

[@Dan_Ranger]

57 year old me who lived and breathed it just called it metal. I’m not a fan of defining music or putting it in boxes as it all crosses over at some point.

[@unorthodoxtrotsky]

@@RuthlessMetalYT When thrash metal fans in the 80's(in the U.S.) characterized thrash metal music, it typically went as "heavy," "aggressive" and "fast." Speed was very important components of thrash metal music that when thrash metal bands started playing little slower, they were accused of being "sell-out." And it is this reason that you can't distinguish them apart. And most fans didn't. Just responding by saying how Exciter, Anvil and Abattoir is speed metal and Megadeth, Kreator and Metallica as thrash metal is not a good counter-argument. Megadeth, Metallica and Kreator were all known for their speed. In Megadeth's case, their T-shirt even identified Megadeth as "the state of the art speed metal band" even though throughout the 80's, people identified them as thrash metal band. Even Metallia and Kreator occasioinally distanced themselves from a label "thrash metal." But like I said, this rarely became an issue of debate in the 80's because people used the term "thrash" way more, unless they just used the term "heavy metal."

[@Overlorde79]

@@RuthlessMetalYT I really can't see Metallica as a Thrash band, I listen to Ride The Lightning or Master and for me is US Power Metal.

[@andrehb]

maybe geographic location also determines what label people used -- I grew up in Holland during NWOBHM era, bought all the early Raven, Venom, Anvil releases. Bought Kill em All when it was released, right before (coincidentally) moving to SF Bay Area in Aug '83. My new friends and I went to early Slayer, Metallica and Exodus shows and the only label we used was 'thrash' to separate the new from the old school -- when Possessed and Death came on the scene you started hearing the term 'death metal'. But, at least in Holland, even with tracks like Jaguar's Axe Crazy floating around, I never heard people using the term 'speed metal' as a genre

[@rieux7039]

Thinking of Anthrax’s Fistful of Metal album is closer to speed metal than thrash imo. Especially Panic or Deathrider, but Metal Thrashing Mad got is name right as it’s thrash metal Edit: forgot to mention that I think you got it right all the way when separating thrash and speed. Easy way to do, could the songs have been in Judas Priest’s Painkiller album ? - Yes, it’s speed - No, it’s thrash

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yes I would say that Fistful is a speed metal record.

[@joetroutt7425]

I was thinking of Priest's painkiller when he mentioned speed metal has high register screams

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@joetroutt7425 Yes Painkiller is more or less a speed metal album. It is a bit technical. more so than Speed usually is. but yeah. its a jungle...

[@sithcritic8906]

Agreed that Fistful of Metal was speed metal, especially with the leather outfits. But Among the Living and State of Euphoria have to be thrash! So much punk influence and the colorful surf shorts.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@sithcritic8906 haha, yeah that era was thrash for sure, even though those shorts didn't belong in any metal genre. haha

[@ManillaRd]

Very good overview. For Agent Steel I would say they were pure speed metal on their early albums while they started injecting thrash aspects later on.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yes, more speed in the beginning.

[@timbrown6629]

Speed Metal developed earlier as a genre. For example, listen to the first Anthrax release. Then listen to the next 3. They really don't even sound like the same band. They started out playing Speed Metal; once Neil Turbin left the band, they made the jump to Thrash working more punk influences into the mix as it became accepted. I loved bands that played both...Thrash tended to have what a lot if us called a "polka" type of drumbeat.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah they probably got inspired by Exciter since they played together.

[@mindmesh7566]

Exciter is using mainly a modified D-Beat - drums - with high pitched near screams. The guitar riffs ooze with Discharge influence too. Really, in the end, the terms “thrash” and “speed” were used by media outlets in selling the newer, faster metal music and were constantly bleeding over each other as it became a battle over which term would subdue the other in media usage. Thrash just seemed “harsher” of the two and it pretty much won over speed. An older guy I went to school with said it was all “Black Sabbath, just faster at times” in a nut shell. This was mid- late 80’s and grindcore was even remote;y heard of in US media. Death metal was in its infancy and Black Metal had already begun its incantations. Speed freaks will say velocity matters……Ehhhh. I guess one side would tend toward more metallic sounding and the other - although still metallic - would find more punkier/hardcore elements to infuse into it. I remember Slayer being called “speed metal” for a while and then “thrash.” And trying to make new definitions backwards compatible is even more ludicrous. We were kids then. We called things whatever we called them - whether a friend said something clever or cool or media influenced us.

[@scottrubin84]

It's worth noting though that Slayer's first album has a different sound than the rest, and it was closer to the traditional sound of bands like Judas priest. This is why some referred to them as speed metal. After that record they moved on to more chromatic approaches in their riffs and even more dirt on the vocals with less of a focus on high screams. So there was definitely a stylistic change in their sound responsible for the genre shift

[@HOLOCULT]

True exciter has a punk sound in the melody and beats.

[@mindmesh7566]

@@HOLOCULT …Yeah the lines of demarcation between hardcore and metal were blurring by the mid-late 80’s. Twas a great time!!! Cro-Mags were another great band.

[@HOLOCULT]

@@mindmesh7566 even bands like discharge as well had a speed element. That d beat when mixed with non palm muted fast punk melodies screams speed metal. But also hardcove punk too. So thrash not only has the punk element as well but speed too.

[@mindmesh7566]

@@HOLOCULT …But are we talking pre-speed metal days though??? Could it be that speed sounds more like Discharge maybe?? You can even hear Discharge’s influence on early Motley Crue - Too Fast For Love album especially. Now lyric wise, that’s another story!✌️✌️✌️🤘🤘🤘🔥🔥🔥🔥⚡️💥💥💥

[@ryanstucke7811]

Metal Chruch 🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

🤘🏻

[@ericy1005]

I was 15 in '86 and had Reign in Blood and Master of Puppets and several Iron Maiden and Priest records. I always loved metal, but your channel has really shown me a lot about it I didn't know. Thanks for all the work on these videos! It's great content man!!!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thanks boss! Cheers!

[@frankj10000]

Fun fact: Here in Germany in the mid '80s Thrash Metal was often misspelled as Trash. I even remember an interview with Kreator's Mille on German radio where he repeatedly said Trash Metal.

[@thracian2072]

Probably because Germans can't pronounce the TH sound.

[@frankj10000]

@@thracian2072 It had more to do with the fact that in Germany Trash is a more well known English word than Thrash.

[@shaihulud4515]

Trifft man auch heute noch gerne an ;-)

[@ihorstashchuk3283]

Yes, that's characteristic for people whose languages don't have the TH sound. For example, in Ukraine and Russia, they also usually say "trash metal" :) Same for deaTH metal - it's pronounced either deaT or deaS or deaZ just because a lot of people don't bother to pronounce TH properly

[@Hamring]

In Norway we also thought it was trash metal for a long time! And i think both reasons are to blame. The Th sound is unnatural and most people dont know the word thrash and just assumes trash

[@Ribelin2000]

It's like saying there's a difference between a ghost and a spirit, or a janitor and a custodian.

[@Kris_P._Bey_Ken]

Mmmm Twix.

[@Ribelin2000]

@Jasin Walraven I'm not.

[@KickflipGnasty]

@@Ribelin2000 There is a difference between the two, subtle though it may be.

[@Ribelin2000]

@@KickflipGnasty The only thing I've got is that "speed metal" has more melodic vocals. That's really the only difference.

[@KickflipGnasty]

@@Ribelin2000 thrash metal tends to be more rhythmically turbulent, while speed metal generally tends to be straight speed picking. Thrash riffs are generally more syncopated and the arrangements more about bludgeoning the listener with tempo changes/riff variations. Speed metal generally sticks to one constant soaring, fast feel the entirety of the song. Not always, but it's often the case.

[@matthewsantos8525]

in the 80's everything was considered Heavy metal even if it wasn't Heavy Metal

[@eon14873]

Pop fans called bon Jovi heavy metal 😂😂

[@fearmonkey]

Thrash metal was speed metal at the time, we weren’t separating them like we are now. I never heard anyone say anything was thrash versus speed back then.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah but both labels has been around since the early eighties.

[@josephbobbitt7759]

Metallica master of puppets and Anthrax among the living are my favorite thrash metal albums. Love your videos. STAY HEAVY!!!!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

classics!

[@ArmourRules]

You did a great job on this video!

[@J_thrash]

For me speed metal is Helloween's first Albums

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

I agree.

[@phaztheaussiebastard]

Early Blind guardian for me

[@kenotayo9199]

Yess...

[@elbertoplazas947]

Also Running Wild's first albums

[@dannymontoya9469]

It's all Rock and Roll my friend. Cheers from America. 🤘🍺🤘

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

🤘

[@markovisic7244]

King Lemmy! R.I.P

[@scottnorris8071]

I Entirety Agree, Ultimately It Is All Rock And Roll!

[@troublemagnet1]

Bullshit. Chuck Berry sounds nothing like Napalm Death. I hate that stupid statement.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@troublemagnet1 haha

[@thegamingfish547]

As soon as I heard “Wake up dead” The struggle not to headbang on the bus started

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

those riffs are close to perfection. :)

[@jnb756]

@@RuthlessMetalYT Chris Poland was and still is an extremely unique guitar player.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@jnb756 yes!

[@Arch_Angel_Michael]

Wake Up Dead is my all-time favorite Thrash song

[@michaelsantangelo7997]

I've been listening to metal for over 25 years and I only felt I understood the difference between thrash and speed metal as of a few years ago. Your video did a good job of explaining it. \m/

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Cheers!

[@evangilmore4394]

This video needed to be made. For too long I have had this debate with people and admittedly it is very hard to describe these sub genres, but I think you did a great job with this. I think you nailed the descriptions/attributes of each sub genre not only sonically, but even the fashion that each displayed. I was also overjoyed when you picked exciter as the first speed band since they pretty much define every aspect of speed metal. I also liked that you introduced the bands that are difficult to categorize. I couldn't agree more with all of the choices you made. Well done. You just earned a subscriber.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Thank you Sir I appreciate it. :)

[@footerotica882]

Metal church were power metal especially after the first album

[@MrGregory777]

If your band has a vocalist but nobody knows that your band has a vocalist, it's Speed Metal.

[@hashbrownz1999]

I've always defined speed as thrash but less. Less of everything BUT speed. Less aggression, less signature and tempo changes if any, less overall complexity.

[@tyronedonut8336]

much better vocals,much better solos,cleaner guitars,faster tempo,better lyrics

[@tyronedonut8336]

not to mention some speed metal.songs are way more complex than any thrash metal song,like All Guns Blazing or Street Lethal

[@tristanhavrilak6048]

Thank you for making a video or difference/comparison about these genres

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thank you 🤘🏻

[@danielkegley690]

Metal is metal. Loud, aggressive, fast, and so hopelessly hard for your parents to control. lol Just listen and enjoy. Metal forever !,,!

[@anthonyw5261]

I could really make a pot of coffee and sit for this conversation

[@mfm6]

🍺 instead 😃

[@jaapvandenboom8424]

coffee for speed metal BEER(S) for THRASH!

[@alessandrociapica5180]

To me the point is that Thrash Metal is one of the first two evolution from Speed Metal (the other one is Power Metal). Speed Metal was born in the late 70s, when Punk Rock came out. It gave new life to the old style of Hard Rock, so Speed was and hybridization of Heavy Metal and Punk Rock. Many from late 70s to mid 80s played Speed, from Moorhead, Priest, Maiden, Exciter, Anvil, ecc. The second wave of Speed generated Thrash and Power. When Speed Metal met Hardcore and Doom Metal (Black Sabbath) it came out as the Thrash Metal. When Speed met Epic Metal and Progressive Rock, it became Power Metal.

[@jeremycronic]

I've always thought of Megadeth as almost a 'missing link' type band of speed metal and thrash. A lot of their riffs are more melodic and less harsh, but still fast. Also Mustaine's virtuoso guitar work on songs like Holy Wars is extremely different than most thrash. As well with the constant changes progressive nature of many of their songs, labeling Megadeth as a simple thrash band is short sided. Megadeth is for sure on of those bands whose genre is 'Megadeth' Great video

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

I don't see much speed in them, for me it's pure thrash, it's rhytmic and chunky like thrash.

[@mattcroy1885]

Best guitar solos back and forth for me with Megadeth. So good. They have some really fast stuff on first record. A little on PS and RIP too.

[@AGore88]

This was fantastic, and helped to explain nuances that I had been wondering about since I was a child. Thank you very much!

[@markmccarty7898]

I think overall a really good video. After reading the comments I can see everyone has a pretty good handle on the subject and also offer some good views and explanations. Enjoyed the video!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thank you Sir, I appreciate it. 🤘

[@thrashmetaldad]

I do agree with a lot of the distinctions you make. I think the keys to speed vs thrash are tempo speed, syncopation and the influence of punk rock. Speed metal is closer to simply a fast version of heavy metal, almost a literal heavy metal song with a 20, 30 or 40 bpm bump. Thrash has more syncopated rhythms, probably a result of its greater interaction with punk rock and hardcore. I also think thrash ends up sounding / being faster because of this. Endearingly, to me speed metal always ends up sounding like it's "trying harder" because the riffs are more constant chugging (more and longer strings of 16th notes). Also speed metal is slightly drunker. 🥴

[@JasonBenesh]

Another distinction (in my mind) is the bass. In thrash, it's more likely to mimic the rhythm guitar line, more likely to chug, and less likely to wander off and provide counterpoint than in speed metal. Another sub-distinction in thrash: those New York thrash bands (primarily thinking of Anthrax and Overkill) had a huge, ringing bass sound that you just don't find in thrash from anywhere else I can think of. Maybe it's just in the production of the albums, but Frank Bello and D.D. Verni stand out in a way that even Cliff Burton didn't.

[@TimHeinz-htimba]

I used to consider Metal Church thrash metal back in the 80s simply because they often toured with the Bay Area thrash bands like Metallica and Megadeth, but now, looking back, I wouldn't even consider them to be thrash or speed metal simply because they really didn't do that many fast tempo speed metal songs. I would place Metal Church in the same category as Judas Priest and Accept and just call them a classic heavy metal band.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah, and they became more of a traditional heavy metal band with Mike Howe to some degree. 👍

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

If you enjoyed the video then make sure to smash that LIKE button 👍 and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE 🔔 if you're new! Stay Connected with me: 💬 Discord: discord.gg/B8NvuuSPMX 🔴 Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=54741783 🐦 Twitter: twitter.com/JimRuthless 📘 Facebook: facebook.com/groups/176669589198816 🤘 Spotify: open.spotify.com/user/nla1154q1kamkscnp5z1d79h3?si=K1ujpPh_SLujafZ_WUHFwQ Stay Heavy! 🤘

[@mattmartinez9281]

Hey, that was helpful. Nice comparisons. It’s not easy to explain genre differences with non metal people, now I can with the music. I’ve been a metal head since JUDAS PRIEST’s British Steel came out. My current fave is ALIEN WEAPONRY.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thank you

[@jc2153]

nice video! I always felt speed metal is more motorhead inspired so i consider them the originators of the genre

[@HeathenwoodOfficial]

Seeing EXCITER as the first one was awesome!

[@HeathenwoodOfficial]

But I didn't know many of these bands so thanks for the intro

[@esehn6972]

And Sacrifice.....go Canada!

[@henrydycha3738]

Exciter is pounding metal.not speed.lol

[@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ]

@@esehn6972 Sacrifice, Hirax , Bulldozer , Battleaxe , Nasty Savage...Underrated Thrash bands...

[@davidbojarski2423]

I listened to Exciter when I was a kid and nice the drummer actually sang as well

[@jnb756]

damn.... Metal Church, Exciter, Kreator, Was waiting for Anthrax, Accept and Exodus to round it all out - we never really called anything speed metal other than Anthrax really, and that changed when the singer changed - everything was Thrash or simply Metal - it grew so fast - and there were SO many bands that were never popular but we would all try to see what they were about and there were some gems like Warrior, Fighting for the Earth and even Def Leppard On Through the Night and Hi and Dri were both metal as fuck. Jag Panzer that I think was Joey Taffolla's first album - definitely before he blew up for a little while.... man this brought me back what 30 years? Jesus - I know there are great metal bands now but the 80's really was where it blew up huge and some of those songs will be note for note in my head until I am jammin with Randy Rhodes in the clouds

[@blop1738]

*SPEED-METAL* = Annihilator, Anvil, Agent Steel, etc. Far much sunny and joyful than thrash, more melodic too, often uses choirs and falsetto vocals. Guitar, bass, vocals, and battery working are very "lively" and virtosism in everywhere. Outfit; sneakers, jeans, T-shirt w/ your favorite band :) It transmits positive benevolent energies. You won't never rebel against the system by listening this music! *TECHNICAL SPEED-METAL or Speed/Thrash* = born after the two genres above, it can be more aggressive than straight or plain speed-metal but benevolent mood in any case. Sometimes even more powerful and faster than thrash but not all that violent as thrash is. A sort of crossing between speed-metal and thrash without all that satanic implication that thrash - at least early thrash - had. Here's where I put stuff as 'Tallica, Megadeth, Overkill, Testament, Death Angel, Voivod, Nuclear Assault, etc. It transmits positive benevolent energies and can increase cerebral intelligence. Even if appearence can be deceiving, this keeps you as good boy as you are; remaining all that social conformist slave tamed person. *THRASH* = Satanic attitude, very negative, powerful, and violent (sometimes far much more than whichever black-metal and death-metal band), very negative mood, often very dark or tragic like a hopeless mood or sensation. Sadus, Slayer, Possessed, Dark Angel, Celtic Frost, Morbid Saint, Metal Onslaught, etc. In a few words is what you call the early "thrash/black-metal" and "thrash/death-metal"; satanic symbols as inverted crosses, spiked and studded collars and bracelet full of nails, black leather outfit, sometimes lips- and/or eyes-painting. It can sound even "ultra fast" but almost always more monotonous in terms of guitar and battery working compared to speed-metal. It sounds like oudated and together speed-metal was born before than the other genres. But that outdated is one of its own strong point; like an ancient spell it can smeel like sulphur and never dies! Sometimes, it can reach very intricate guitar riffs constructions (sometimes far much more technical than the so-called "technical speed-metal") and very long songs; for instance Hell Awaits and Crypts Of Eternity from Slayer. It can increase cerebral intelligence but also your own negative self-destructive energies and your anti-social anti-conformist attitude (and suicide tendencies too). *HARDCORE RAP* = Agnostic Front, Suicidal Tendences, SOD, Anthrax, etc. It transmits a benevolent - but also stupid sometimes - mood. It is a sort of "powerful" and "punkish" speed-metal but less technical skills (and "hasty") than speed and technical-speed metal. Songs are usually shorter in comparison to the other three genres and the sensations and mood that transmits in you are a stupid smooth feeling, a self-ironic mood. Lyrics can be anti-social as well but not all that "serious" anti-socialism that the so-called "technical speed-meta" has. Outfits; short trousers, baseball cap, and laughing for no reasons (junkie in few words). It transmits benevolent but stOOpid and stoned energies and might reduce your intelligence or turned you into a tamed individual; i.e. a slave of society and conformism. *HARDCORE PUNK or post-thrash* a-la Exhorder or Pantera is an hybrid son or mix between almost all those genres above (maybe excluding the straight plain speed-metal). It transmits sometimes benevolent other times negative energies, but more destructive energies than autodestructive. In anycase like HARDCORE PUNK it can transmit in you very stOOpid mood and even if at the beginning it can make you turned into an antisocial individual, as time passes you might realize that you became a social conformist; in a few words it might turn you into all what you wanted or thought to fight against to!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thrash is rarely satanic.

[@gerardpiepenbrink500]

Don't forget that Speed Metal has its own logo!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

yeah kinda. even if thrash bands used it back in the 80s, I'm doing a video on that soon.

[@sylentstorm8422]

Speed Metal is fast Heavy Metal. Thrash doesn’t have to be fast. The scooped guitars are a dead giveaway.

[@eon14873]

It's all in the chug

[@fredericogobbi]

suggestion! Doom Metal vs Stoner Metal (rock) because there are two styles of metal that have elements in common....😎👍🏻🤟🏻

[@Aurora2097]

Interesting choice of songs... that first exciter track i'd called thrash, while that first Megadeth song i'd called speed metal... But yes,,generally i think of speed as more ,ike Priest, more like faster classic heavy metal. Thrash more raw, rough, dark, brutal... more Hardcore.

[@MySweetPickles]

Just discovered this channel and am really enjoying the videos.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Thank you, the channel is new so. :)

[@chiiiman0685]

When ur so heavy you don't give a shit about the genres you just jam out

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

🤘

[@guanatosmetal71]

speed and thrash metal go together, they always go hand in hand

[@heavyaccept]

Yeah, I agree, these Metal genres are so close, so some bands are falling into both categories. P.S.: Apart from the big bands, I have to propose two of my favorite albums in those two notable Metal genres: * Xentrix - For Whose Advantage? (Thrash Metal) * Maniac - Maniac (Speed Metal)

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

gotta love Xentrix! 🤘🏻

[@heavyaccept]

@@RuthlessMetalYT they've released a new album on 2019!

[@sakblabbath3715]

I glad that you put Metal Church in that hard to define list. Voivod perhaps belongs that list. I was listening to killing technology and it was hard to define. I noticed Exciter and Rage using Judas priest songs as their band name like Running Wild. Early speed Metal adopted this practice.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yeah, War and Pain Voivod is different from Rrrooaarrr Voivod and post 90's Voivod is something else as well. Many bands evolve, like Running Wild.

[@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ]

@@RuthlessMetalYT Voivod are in their own league...they are the inventers of Techno Thrash...only Mekong Delta puts up this standards...listen to Astronomy Domine ( Voivod/Pink Floyd ) and Tocatta ( Mekong Delta / ELP )

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ Watchtower was probably the first techno trhash band though.

[@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ]

@@RuthlessMetalYT more that Power Metal than Techno Thrash but I respect it..Voivod were connect Thrash with punk vocals...

[@81dsend]

Killing technology is is the end of hardcore sounding VOIVOD and pure thrash plus power, I guess, never wanted to define voivods soundzzzz, just wanted to listen to VOIVOD. It's like trying to define every poison idea album you don't do it just listen.

[@thalesvasconcellos2086]

Great video man! I'm not very familiar with speed metal, so this was quite educational for me.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thanks boss!

[@cygnusx10]

I think it's a very tough distinction to make. Accept were "probably" the first band that played what I would call speed metal, but they also have a lot of thrash elements. Conversely there are a lot of thrash bands that are almost indistinguishable from speed bands in their musical style where only the vocal delivery can make a difference - even then there's A LOT of crossover. I think Mekong Delta who were classed as a thrash band had a lot of speed elements - indeed it's difficult to seperate some of their albums that fit completely into either genre. Anyway, excellent video as usual, looking forward to what you do next. Keep up the great work.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

🤘🏻

[@gui4816]

Power, Thrash and Speed were very connected on the begining

[@elixenramirez740]

Now we need hair metal vs glam metal 😅

[@punkoid76]

Glam v Sleaze metal would be more appropriate

[@serenechaosuk4682]

@@punkoid76 Glam vs Hair vs Sleaze vs Pop Rock vs Pop Metal vs ROCK vs HARD ROCK vs CLASSIC ROCK vs Poodle Pop vs Party Metal. FUCK GENRES, JUST DESCRIBE THE FUCKING MUSIC ! Oh, and Hanoi Rocks and Poison have very VERY little in common !

[@misterknightowlandco]

How about simply “good” vs “bad” lol

[@serenechaosuk4682]

@@misterknightowlandco Mate, that's what Duke Ellington said in response to the term 'jazz', a term he couldn't stand, despite being a pioneer of the 'genre' ! He sad in his own words "There's 2 different types of music; Good music and Bad music". case closed !

[@punkoid76]

@@serenechaosuk4682 so describe the music with mentioning the genres? Ok... The video was about Thrash v Speed metal, a legitimate comparison. Somebody suggested Glam v Hair and I suggest Glam v Sleaze being more accurate and you go off on some caps lock rampage, calm the fuck down. Oh, and who mentioned Hanoi Rocks? They had a big influence on the likes of Poison and their image, but loads of others did too. Hanoi have more in common with Guns N Roses, so what?

[@uoabigaillevey]

The way I have always divided them.. thrash sounds like Megadeth or Slayer... speed metal sounds like a sped-up version of heroic power metal. Thrash is generally a tad slower with repeating chugging rhythms made for mosh pits. Speed metal generally lacks the chugging rhythms and instead focuses on higher energy riffing for mosh pits.

[@r4m_safetycar1]

What I got from this video is Speed metal is basically just Iron Maiden but faster

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

pretty much basic heavy metal but faster. but thrash is kinda that too but more punk and aggression.

[@r4m_safetycar1]

@@RuthlessMetalYT Yeah true, thrash is that too but just heavier

[@x-wing8785]

It wasn't quite that simple. You have to consider what Iron Maiden(and equivalents) sounded back then to understand how revolutionary the change was. Speed/thrash metal was whole new kind of music. Every speed/thrash metal band played as fast and heavy as possible, but they also had a completely new kind of sound. The guitars sounded like chainsaws and it was completely unheard of back then. Not to mention that no band had used so much double bass ever before. For older musicians, it was just terrible violation of all musical rules. Singing was another matter entirely. No serious musician back then could say that James Hetfield was a good singer. Let alone Tom Araya or Mille Petrozza. Today the difference is perhaps not so well noticed as traditional heavy metal bands have started to use the same elements what thrash/speed metal bands originally brought to music. Back then those elements wasn't even considerd as music. It was a noise. And we kids liked it!🙂 Besides, thrash/speed metal didn't have precise definitions back then. And we definitely didn't have the time or interest to analyze what kind metal each band was playing. I wish things were still like that so we wouldn't have to suffer those hundreds of moronic subgenres what we have seen in last 20+ years. All we need today is some pissed off teenagers who have no money and no playing skills but even more desire to break the whole music genre once again.

[@mickeyvanderhoof8889]

Man, for this series of videos, you will be remembered ;o)

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Cheers!

[@alementary4065]

Holy Terror never got the love they earned. Mind Wars was a spectacular album.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

for sure!

[@clickheredukektm8273]

Mind wars is my favourite thraspeed album ever. Probably 1 of the best 10 Thrash metal albums in the world ever.

[@Nicholasville-y2b]

Yeah I would classify speed metal as more of a gateway subgenre to non metal people new to the genre due to its more moledic nature. Thrash is more intense with a heavier punk edge to it. I love both honestly 😍

[@killkult]

I can say with full confidence that i do not care one way or the other, if it makes my head bang its ok with me.

[@krisreddish3066]

I am partial to instrumental speed metal late into the era. Some wicked influences from my childhood would up the bar for entry into metal and go on to influence complete acts of badassery for the next couple of generations. A golden era of shredders in my guitarist biased mind

[@henny1356]

06:43 Agent Steel is Speed Metal to the Bone! No Doubt!

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Cheers!

[@mikem9958]

Its honestly a bit confusing even for people who've been immersed in metal for years and know the sub-genres, I can only imagine the confusion for a newbie or someone who just doesn't listen to metal The 3 most prominent key differences that stand out to me are 1.) The (sometimes blatant) hardcore influence in thrash, which is lacking or non-existent in speed metal. 2.) Overall heaviness and aggression in thrash compared to speed metal - Speed metal being "cleaner", in both the vocals and guitars, not as sinister or "mean" sounding 3 .) Thrash is more dynamic structurally, breakdowns, bridges, and more components to keep things interesting. **EDIT: As other comments pointed out with thrash/speed metal being used interchangeably back in the day, just to describe "faster" heavy metal, it makes me wonder if Speed Metal is really just a prototype of Thrash Metal that barely stuck around and is nearly extinct. Like seeing what would be of thrash without the hardcore influence, and only keeping to the NWOBHM influence.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Speed Metal was kind of a prototype for thrash in certain countries, but in Germany it was quite popular after 1985 as well.

[@overwhelmingapathy721]

Was 8 when i first heard something other then the radio or my parents records. My stepsister showed me a taped of some band called slayer. Young as i was i still remember that day as the one i knew id never stop looking for something to make me feel like that again. Thrash and speed have evolved over the years but that feeling is still there..

[@jnb756]

Reign in Blood was my fist exposure - to this day it makes me head bang like a lunatic

[@overwhelmingapathy721]

@@jnb756 that shit got me so pumped..and i had to find metal in secret. I remember back when tape and cd sleeves had a huge bit of bands with album covers or pics. Didnt say shit but i found alot, just seeing that..asking around and eventually getting bits and pieces.

[@ED-fx7sf]

Missing forgotten Bands like Razor Sabbat Sarcophago Holy Moses Vicious Rumors

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

it's not really about the bands, it's about the genres in this one.

[@mindmesh7566]

Raven was another mid point of metallic music.

[@ED-fx7sf]

@@RuthlessMetalYT some were mentioned, other not. I knoe that you had explained the difference but you showed nice stuff as Agent Steel. Many don't know them cause they were born too late. This was my youth

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

@@ED-fx7sf Yes they should teach about Agent Steel in the schools, that's how great they were .:)

[@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ]

@@mindmesh7566 I put Raven and Anvil in NWOBHM not Speed Metal...and I Admit that Agent Steel are the Meaning of Speed Metal as Holy Terror for Thrash...my opinion..

[@archangel5627]

You did a fantastic job trying to define both genres even though some of these bands do overlap one another. This was a great video and I definitely agreed with your opinions on the bands you presented. 💪🏻🤘🏻

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thank you Sir. :)

[@glenkepic3208]

Nice work. Though a fan of whatever both was from the '80s, all i can think of now is Kings X "The Box".

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Cheers!

[@oskub5348]

I think thrash is more versatile.

[@Canuck1000]

I suggest that you read the series of books on thrash metal by Martin Popoff. The first book goes in great details about the origin of thrash metal (it is called Hit the Lights: The Birth of Thrash).

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Martin Popoff is a legend!

[@warbossd]

As I approach my fiftieth year and having been a lifelong metal fan, I think Lemmy said it best when he said 'We're just a rock n roll band'. Why do we need to infinitely subdivide and classify everything into boxes. Not a dig just a genuine question from someone who knows music that speaks to me when I hear it. I guess it's a marketing thing right?

[@chaotik7853]

my view is that sub genres just make it easier to know what is more or less similar to what, and at the end of the day it is all just metal/rock

[@pastorofmuppets9346]

Subgenres are needed. I love metal overall but black/death metal makes me cringe. I like lots of rock too but cant stand guns&roses or lead zeppelin

[@rawkpunkerz]

Agree

[@Nugtroen]

great discussion of speed and thrash...next topic how about speed and power metal and its evolution into symphonic metal

[@Wotrak]

Totaly agree with you. Its a total mix and match between Thrash and Speed. Imho the most Speedmetal song came not from a so called Speedmetal band, no! For me "Fast As A Shark" is the definition of Speedmetal! 😀 And Raven are the most underrated band ever btw! Great vid as always! 👍🏻

[@terriblecertainity]

to me, Speed MEtal was always just traditional heavy metal played faster. The vocals and riffs are still rather melodic, there is very little punk influence, the focus isnt on staccato. Thrash was a thing on its own. Harsh vocals, riffs are chromatic or based on modality, the low e string is the basis. D Beat drums Far more single note riffs

[@shaotonghe9188]

great pick of cover picture, the debut of megadeth sounds quite lot speedy. Another good example of uncategorizable band is Razor.

[@zachary_attackery]

It's pretty simple: Thrash is speed metal with a punk influence.

[@superiordimension9255]

Puh, definately not. Or you mean Darkness Descends, Epidemic of violence, Excursion demise, The Legacy, Malleus Maleficarum, None shall defy, Beneath the remains etc. has anything to do with punk??? I do hear completly nothing of punk in those mentioned ones.. sorry..

[@TheTenCentStory]

@@superiordimension9255 Those are all late 80s early 90s qualifiers and I'd argue some of those are not even thrash metal.

[@superiordimension9255]

@@TheTenCentStory Yes, late 80s early 90s. Which one of them exactly is not a Thrash metal album in your opinion please?? And when its not Thrash, what is it instead??

[@TheTenCentStory]

@@superiordimension9255 Well, I'd argue that Beneath the remains is kinda pushing towards death metal. I was not familiar with Malleus Maleficarum but Wikipedia describes it as Dutch Death Metal. My overall point is that this is past the gestation or formulation of the genre, and so, other influences are going to push into the music, especially while not being the original bands that created the genre.

[@superiordimension9255]

@@TheTenCentStory Maybe its only me, but as well as first Pestilence and Beneath the remains has nothing to do with Death Metal! These albums are the epitome of Thrash Metal! 100%! To me at least! Bands like Unleashed, Vomitory, Benediction, Deicide, Autopsy, early Morgoth, Fleshcrawl, Morbid, Angel, Suffocation, Sinister etc. these Bands play Death Metal! So when i compare Beneath the remains with Suffocation-Effigy of the forgotten for example, it sounds totally different to me! Like two different worlds! This is my understanding.

[@daffy8955]

Woah is this Jim Ruthless, but a seperate channel just for metal, how fkn cool dude! I never knew that you had this channel, I got sad when u stopped to upload rdr content. But this channel seems amazing, im a big metalhead myself 🤘🏼

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

Yes Sir, the old channel died and this is what I've been up to for the last two years. hehe Cheers!

[@daffy8955]

@@RuthlessMetalYT nice man 😎🤘🏼

[@emergentform1188]

That's pretty cool man, insightful and well explained. Digging your vids and how much thought and time you are putting into them. Stay metal bruh.

[@RuthlessMetalYT]

thanks! Cheers!