"What Is the Oxford Comma (And Is It Really Optional)?": Oregon State Guide to Grammar

[@marylee8372]

I am passionate about the Oxford comma. I also am passionate about using apostrophes ONLY for possessives and contractions NOT for plurals. And don't get me started on using "less" when one really means "fewer." "Less" is for uncountable nouns (less water, less coffee) and "fewer" is for countable nouns ("fewer bottles of water," "fewer cups of coffee.")

[@SWLF]

Ha! Thanks for sharing, Mary Lee!

[@SWLF]

If you enjoy our new video, please give it a like, ask a question, or give us your thoughts on the strange history of the Oxford comma. Thanks for watching, everybody!

[@theieltscommunity]

I would prefer using the Oxford comma since in English there are so many words/names/brand names where 'and' and '&' are used to connect multiple words but refer to a single object. In the absence of a comma, it could be very confusing whether 'and' is connecting two words or separating them. Of course, in my native language, we don't have such words so it's pretty cool to ignore comma before the last item of the list. However, in English, I like using the Oxford comma.

[@SWLF]

Thanks so much for the comment, TIELTSC!

[@bm0204]

Thank you for this video, the past ones, and the ones to come. :)

[@SWLF]

Thanks so much for your support, MB! We've got quite a few lined up for the next few months, and now we have to find the time to record and edit them...

[@irishfairytarot5674]

Ooooooo oh no u didn't....

[@lyon3511]

Even Cormac McCarthy, notorious for a lack of punctuation, uses the Oxford comma. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[@joeabcobb1]

I love me some Oxford commas! Thanks for posting this video, and nice necklace by the way. I’m just now finding this Oregon State series at least two years after the original creation dates.

[@SWLF]

Thanks so much, Allen! We're so happy to be getting these videos out into the world.

[@kevinkohler2892]

As both a professional editor and an English instructor, I feel the video, while being technically accurate, still does a disservice to students--at least American ones, which would be your audience. It seems to show a bit of preferential bias toward eschewing the Oxford/serial comma by presenting history and when you're required to leave it out first and not emphasizing that ALL academic style guides require it. In all the nuance presented, I feel the important message of what to do is lacking, focusing on opinion/debate with the message instead of what students actually need to know, which is that the Oxford comma should almost always should be used. I think the video would be better if it were made more clear that *unless* you're an American who isn't a journalist, i.e., the vast majority of students, you should be using the Oxford comma. Teachers (briefly mentioned) should all know this, though the video seems to say teachers can choose what they want students to do (not good). I also find it troubling that APA style, the guide used for scientific papers, which also requires the Oxford comma isn't mentioned at all though this video is aimed at an academic audience. Again, while it's important to share context and present matters in a balanced way, especially in college, I think it's a disservice to students to not be more clear on the extent to which AP style stands alone for American writers. APA style (scientific papers), The Chicago Manual of Style (books/published works), and the MLA Style Manual (most commonly used to cite sources within the language arts, cultural studies, and other humanities disciplines) all require it -- not to mention Strunk and White's The Elements of Style and the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual. AP (Associated Press) rather stubbornly stands alone on the matter. And I'm noting this as someone who has also been a journalist. As an editor of dissertations and other academic papers, I find the volume of students that don't realize it is not really a matter of choice troublesome.

[@SWLF]

Thanks for your thoughtful comment, Kevin! One central goal we have for this series is to encourage our viewers to understand grammar as a product of convention developed over long historical periods (with all of that attendant messiness) rather than a set of rules to memorize. This approach, we hope, will encourage viewers to also see how grammar expectations change as we move from one context to another. As you know from your work in journalism and in academia, good writers should be able to adapt their prose to a variety of style conventions to suit a variety of contexts, which (in our experience) is more difficult to do when we view one style convention as the "right" one. In any case, that is just our take and one that is certainly open to debate. Thanks so much for keeping the conversation going!

[@marylee8372]

Wow! Excellent addition to the information in the video. I was also concerned by the absence of mention of the APA Style for almost all scientific and scholarly publications. Thank you for your extensive comment.

[@kkohler0624]

@@SWLF I think it's hard enough for most students to learn proper grammar without a history lesson bogging down the bottom line. The goal of understanding grammar as a product of convention, etc., should take a back seat to teaching what students actually need to know, which is rather simple: there's just ONE exception to using the Oxford comma: journalism writing, thanks to the rather ridiculous stubbornness of AP Style to conform to every other guide out there. The school's primary goal should be making grammar rules clear. I feel this video really fails to do that by not focusing on the vast majority that require it.

[@SWLF]

@@kkohler0624 Hmm, well, we certainly disagree, Kevin. But if you are looking for prescriptions of how grammar SHOULD be used, we're certain you can find countless videos on KZbin that you are welcome to use. As we discuss in the introduction to this series, we are more interested in descriptive approaches to grammar, which is why the history is important to us. It isn't for everyone, though!

[@SWLF]

@@marylee8372 Thanks so much, Mary Lee!

[@kenrutherford1109]

❎️ My favorite people are my parents, Meryl Streep and Ringo Starr ✅️ My favorite people are my parents, Meryl Streep, and Ringo Starr The above sentence without the Oxford comma sounds ambiguous because it makes it sound like Meryl Streep and Ringo Starr are actually your parents. In the sentence using the Oxford comma, you're implying that your favorite people are your parents, plus Meryl Streep and Ringo Starr

[@SWLF]

Thanks for the comment, Ken! We agree that in certain circumstances, the Oxford comma can help to clarify the meaning of a sentence. The one you've indicated here certainly qualifies (unless of course the author of the sentence is in fact the lovechild of Meryl Streep and Ringo Starr conceived in a yellow submarine).

[@Langsuyar84]

There's a bar at the end of the 8th circle of hell which acts as a kind of waygate to the final ring, where Lucifer resides. This bar is called "the Oxford Comma". The derelicts academics and refused writers who drank themselves to death as well as those confused about proper grammar go to this bar to wail about their life choices - including using the oxford comma, which is secretly the 8th deadly sin. It was added unofficially by Lucifer in 1905, mostly because he knew it would give him more souls but also because it just really pisses him off. Lucifer has, as you would guess, good taste, considering he's the source for the black metal music genre. That does not coincide with the Oxford comma, which is a plague on this earth and should never have been invented.

[@SWLF]

Ha! Thanks for this creative response, @Langsuyar84! See, everybody? People get incredibly worked up about this topic!

[@VunderGuy]

I thought you said he had good taste? Black metal is just The Cookie Monster wailing incoherently. Great if you love Sesame Street, not great if you love actual music and actual metal.

[@sema118]

(Oregon State University - School of Writing, Literature and Film) Don't you think you need an oxford comma in the title of your channel?

[@SWLF]

Ha! Great question. Would it be ambiguous without it?

[@irishfairytarot5674]

Your ruining the English language 😒

[@donmacalister9323]

@@irishfairytarot5674 You're ruining the English language. ;)

[@Khatoon170]

Oxford comma in English language punctuation, serial comma , Oxford comma , Harvard comma . Comma is placed after penultimate term before coordinating conjunction, and or in series , three or more items . Origin of Oxford comma in early 20 th century, it’s affect in American standard English, but doesn’t exist in other languages, nor mandatory in British or international English. There are three differences between American and British punctuation. Quote marks in American English use double quote marks for main quote. Serial comma in uk is comma places before last item in list of three or more things. In American English style guide recommended using this comma is standard . Periods after titles, in American English placed period after all titles “ dr “ or “ mrs “ , whereas British doesn’t do full terms end with same letter , shortened verision “ dr “or “ mrs “ . American mr . And mrs walked home . British English mr and mrs walked hole . In British only need period when shortened title of full term “ professor “ becames “ prof” . Actually iam always keeping notebooks and pen beside me. Google as library and KZbin channels as open universities for every one. Thank you for your wonderful literary educational channel.

[@SWLF]

Nice work here, @Khatoon170 !

[@riverIl0719]

*Me! I like it!*

[@SWLF]

Thanks so much for your continued support, Phil!

[@riverIl0719]

@@SWLF u r welcome!

[@bubiesparkles]

An oxford comma is just rude in my opinion.

[@SWLF]

Ha! This issue does bring out some serious conflict in people, doesn't it?

[@irishfairytarot5674]

It makes you look stupid - it should not be used in text. If you are citing something use it then. If your a writer not an academic do not use it. Use the traditional way. Oxford scholars would not approve. If your American then do what your told to get your grades. But do not use it for writing that includes journalism- unless your doing a bibliography

[@SWLF]

Thanks for the comment, Irish Fairy Tarot. It definitely throws into relief how passionately people feel about this topic! As we mentioned in our first video in this series, our goal is not to tell you what to think or serve as an umpire on what is right and what isn't. Rather, we hope to show how different rhetorical situations call out for different grammars and styles. Learning to master multiple grammars will make any writer think more carefully about the decisions that they make regardless of what form they choose. Thanks for keeping the conversation going!

[@irishfairytarot5674]

@@SWLF cool 😎 thank you Oregon 😊 💓

[@nicfarrow]

This comment includes three misuses of "your." It also has three essential commas missing after dependent clauses. Hmm. OSU kindly restrained themselves from pointing out these mistakes.

[@irishfairytarot5674]

@@nicfarrow lmao, I'm not writing an essay! I usually use "UR," just saying to British ppl it looks stupid, if you ARE a decent writer there is no ambiguity. I'm glad u pointed that out tho, some ppl are dense. 😊