What is the Polish National Catholic Church?

[@thedangeroussaint]

It is frustrating to see how many schisms occur in the Church over poor pastoral decisions

[@pskarnaq73]

I would say poor Papal decisions....

[@highviewbarbell]

The Roman Catholic Church itself was born from schism when they left the Orthodox Church in 1054​@@pskarnaq73

[@nathannorris900]

At least they haven't caved on homosexuality like the Roman Catholic Church. How schismatic was that poor pastoral decision by the Pope?

[@thekingsdaughter4233]

​​@@nathannorris900we haven't yet seen the full measure of _that..._ 😳

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

​@@nathannorris900yeah. That one was really bad. Like i could understand what the Pope was trying to do and i do believe there was some good in his document but the wording of it and how it was declared without consultation with the rest of the Catholic world left a sour taste to a lot of people.

[@mj6493]

Since you mentioned it in this video, we now need a video on the Nordic Catholic Church.

[@anthonybarnes1903]

What’s next, a national Japanese or Chinese Catholic Church?

[@loriloristuff]

Yes, National Nordic Catholic, please!

[@longiusaescius2537]

@anthonybarnes1903 Chinese already exists as Cardinal Zen showed, a Japanese one would actually be cool though

[@traceyedson9652]

@@longiusaescius2537An example should be taken from the Eastern Orthodox Church which has had difficulty disciplining the national church idea. I am EO, don’t accept the papal claims of “immediate and universal jurisdiction,” and oppose the papal pretensions of the so-called Ecumenical Patriarch. But, condemned as it is, ethnic-phylitism as a heresy is rather rampant amongst the churches. There’s no easy solution, but there is a simple one: the Gospel itself. I’d rather see the papacy reformed according to Tradition, actual ruling synods restored, and the pope subject to general councils and his brother patriarchs than the Roman Church divided into national enclaves. Just my insignificant view!

[@nisibonum7634]

Arn't they Lutherans?

[@spiderb3367]

Oh now you’re cooking this is what I’ve been waiting for. Please continue to cover these types of groups, the non “mainstream” liturgical groups. I find them particularly interesting

[@Alevuss92]

I live next door to a PNCC parish! The pastor is a former coworker of mine. The PNCC parish here was formed in the 1890s by Polish residents who accused their Roman Catholic pastor of dishonesty regarding the parish's finances and administration. When an Episcopal Court found no wrong-doing by the pastor, ~10% of parishioners took steps to break away, leading to the PNCC parish that still exists today.

[@traceyedson9652]

He recounted that history in the video. 😀

[@GenericYoutubeGuy]

Would sound nice to go to a Catholic Church that isn’t actually Roman Catholic and doesn’t hold the dirty past of the medieval church as well as papal controversy.

[@Verge63]

​@GenericKZbinGuy A protestant church with a catholic feel

[@mitrydatespruski]

I don't know how many english-language materials are available on the subject but another interesting polish denomination is the Mariavite Church which has a lot of fairly, let's say, curious theological positions.

[@jendreg1935]

There are actually two Mariavite Churches, one is Nicene in theology and the other one is not to say the least.

[@jatar6605]

As a member of the PNCC, I greatly appreciate you making this video and sharing our Church with the world!

[@jessefoutz597]

I realize you're probably not a theologian or an apologist, but would you be able to answer this question I have? I know that St. Mary is held to be a perpetual virgin by the PNCC, but is it a dogma (like her status as Mother of God), or is it something that one can reach a different conclusion on and remain in good standing (like the PNCC's view of original sin)?

[@ivc3092]

Completely serious question, not facetious: why aren't you Orthodox if you're so similar?

[@jatar6605]

@@jessefoutz597 hi! so the perpetual virginity of Mary is held as dogma in the PNCC since it was affirmed at the 5th ecumenical council. "Fifth Ecumenical Council - II Constantinople A.D. 553 - The Capitula of the Council: VI “If anyone shall not call in a true acceptation, but only in a false acceptation, the holy, glorious, and ever-virgin Mary, the Mother of God ... let him be anathema" (this quote comes from the Eastern Diocese's website). Hope this answers your question!

[@jatar6605]

@@ivc3092 that's a great question. tbh, i actually plan on jumping ship eventually to either Rome or the Orthodox after discerning which holds the best claim to being the one true Church. however, right now, i'm using my Old Catholic heritage as a way to unite Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians on my college campus. i'm not catholic or orthodox enough to be rejected on face by protestant groups, i'm not protestant or orthodox enough to be rejected by catholic groups, and i'm not protestant or catholic enough to be rejected on face by orthodox groups. this has been useful in bringing good faith dialogue to campus when there was little before (albeit it did also lead to me and my gf breaking up since she does no consider non-protestants to be Christian :'), but it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make for God)

[@jessefoutz597]

@@jatar6605 See, that's interesting, though, because the anathema is on those who fake calling the BVM the Mother of God, not who deny that she is ever-virgin. The council calls her that a few times, but it's always in passing and not the topic of the anathema. I'll have to read the Eastern Diocese's statement, I think.

[@mercster]

Very interesting one... what struck me was some of their more distinctive sacramental practices, and how some of the language in English has been "modernized." Thanks Joshua.

[@Alkemisti]

Fun fact: Some years ago, some parishes of the Nordic Catholic Church in Scandinavia entered into full communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church (ROCOR), becoming Western Rite Orthodox.

[@traceyedson9652]

I’d love to learn more about this. What rite is used?

[@Alkemisti]

@@traceyedson9652 I unfortunately do not have specific information, but NCC favours old forms of the Roman Rite, so believe the parishes that joined ROCOR have them too, perhaps Sarum Use.

[@jajohnson7809]

I wish there were more support among Eastern Orthodox for the western rite, which is every bit as valid an expression of ancient Christian worship as the Byzantine rite. I'd love to see the PNCC join us, but be able to retain their own traditions.

[@kacpergalik609]

As a Pole, I must admit that I appreciate covering the topic of theirs. I feel like the PNCC is quite overlooked, even among Poles themselves. I also appreciate the fact that you pronounced the magazine's title perfectly. We also have a distinct church known as Mariavites.

[@Hadar1991]

PNCC is basically USA & Canada only. I doubt if they have any presence in Poland, if yes, it is minimal. Regarding Mariavites - it is minuscule sect, but quite interesting theologically. :P

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

​@@Hadar1991There's a connection to other Old Catholics in Europe. Such as Bishop Mikovsky has met with the Nordic Catholic Church.

[@Hadar1991]

@@jeffkardosjr.3825 I don't argue with that. What I meant is that Polish National Catholic Church operates outside of Poland (as far I checked they don't have any parish in Poland). In Poland there exist Polish-Catholic Church of the Republic of Poland but as far I checked it is still part of Union of Utrecht.

[@przemekkasprzyk626]

@@Hadar1991 They have presence in Poland, but (as you rightly suspect) it's marginal.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

@@Hadar1991 Well for a long time the PNCC was cut off from Poland. Poland was split between the German and Russian empires, so there wasn't a Polish state beyond a title the Russian Emperor claimed. The US closed immigration with WW1. Poland shortly reestablished. Occupied again. And then the Polish Peoples Republic which probably wasn't very interested in religion.

[@torspedia]

There's a Polish Catholic church in my home town. The few times I've walked passed there during service times It was always packed, with many standing outside as they couldn't find a place within!

[@RasscalGaming]

I just started going to a PNCC in my area and i absolutely love it, and plan on joining and getting rebaptized as a member

[@gasbaroni]

Rebaptism isn't a thing unless you somehow didn't get baptized in the name of the trinity.

[@jatar6605]

With all due respect, our denomination does not generally honor requests for rebaptism if you already have a valid baptism in the name of the Trinity. Your priest should not be granting you this exception, only the bishop can. Almost always, converts are accepted by Chrism, just like the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics

[@atenanoktua7220]

This story is soooo sad. Schism always leaves wound. I pray for unity!

[@StCloudConcertina]

You know you're doing a good job of representing these when both followers & non-followers thank you. Thank you! I would like to also encourage you to make an SSPX explanation video. What a hot potato!

[@getaids7099]

Good stuff, this type of niche "catholic" groups always fascinates me

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

Have you ever heard of the Fraternite Notre Dame?

[@unit2394]

Would you consider doing a video on the Czechoslovak Hussite Church? I don’t think they have any sort of presence outside of the Czech and Slovak Republics, but they would still be an interesting group to learn about.

[@debbiekerr3989]

Yes I would also like to know more about these denominations.

[@ineffige]

oh man, they are really interesting (not to mentioned Hussite history), I am polish and read only few articles about them. I would love that kind of a video

[@bryanfindley1438]

i am so THANKFUL for you do, and LEARN SO MUCH.... GOD BLESS YOU.. keep up the great work!

[@evavanvollenhoven308]

Interesting, because I was recently asking about this Church which is down the road from the Polish Catholic Church. An old lady told me, from her experience, the Poles who came abroad after the war, and wanted to remarry, went with this "National church" because it allowed them to marry even though they had wives in Poland.

[@RuthenianCatholic]

So they left the Church over lust and went to a false church that would cater to their sins. Why does that sound familiar? *flashbacks of anglican and lutheran cults*

[@unit2394]

Thank you for making this! I’ve been wanting to learn about them for a long time.

[@WestsidePredator]

You should do a video on the SSPX- would be interesting to get the perspective of a non Catholic on this 😅

[@konchkonchkonch6540]

Visit an SSPX Church some time.

[@GR65330]

@@konchkonchkonch6540 The Lefebvrian Mass is not licit and therefore should not be attended by any Catholic.

[@traceyedson9652]

@@GR65330this isn’t a Catholic channel.

[@jaqian]

​@@GR65330AFAIK people are allowed attend as long as it isn't out of protest against the Pope.

[@bentleyb2806]

​@@GR65330it's literally just the traditional Mass it has nothing to do with archbishop lefeve.

[@olivernorth2000]

Fascinating and thorough overview. I was especially interested because of the ordination of British commentator Calvin Robinson by a bishop in the Union of Scranton. You made it very clear why he would have chosen that line in which to be ordained.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

The English language Wikipedia claims he's "Old Catholic". But many Wikipedia pages are wrong it seems. I'm an Anglican and I haven't heard of news one way or the other about his new status of ordination other than that he is a priest now rather than a deacon.

[@jatar6605]

@@jeffkardosjr.3825he was ordained in the Nordic Catholic Church after the Free Church of England agreed to release him. The NCC is the European branch of the Union of Scranton bringing him into union with the Old Catholics

[@johnnelligan4091]

Great work Young man !

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

A church I attended this past week.

[@MrFearDubh]

Very interesting. Thank you for your research and sharing this video!😃

[@danielmoljr4090]

I live in this area, there are several PNCC churches in the Scranton, Wilkes-Barre area. Polish immigration was very prevalent in my area and several Roman Catholic Churches in my area were also formed by Polish.

[@BramptonAnglican]

Great video. Never knew about this church.

[@jimbobjones5972]

Well, a good start in terms of videos dealing with Old/Independent Catholic Churches. As far as dealing with smaller, more ephemeral jurisdictions, you may need to devise questionnaires to be answered by representatives of said jurisdictions. This is because in many of these cases, such documents as those you quoted to document the beliefs and practices of the PNCC do not necessarily exist. I am a priest in one such Church, a Church that is rather unique in this regard since it is non- Chalcedonian. However I have been following this general movement for about 40 years. If I can be of help to you in any way in making these videos, please do not hesitate to contact me.

[@ggarza]

Excellent video, as always! For those interested, the PNCC was formed during a time when immigrant Catholic communities were struggling to form their own parishes staffed with their own immigrant priests. These parishes were known as National Parishes. The American Catholic bishops worked vociferously against this trend. As a result of continued tensions between immigrant Catholic communities and the American Roman Catholic bishops, several of these communities left Catholic Communion, notably the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Greek Catholics and Polish Roman Catholics. The Ukrainian and Ruthenians left and became the Orthodox Church in America and the Poles became the PNCC.

[@aLadNamedNathan]

I''m sorry, but your last sentence is factually incorrect. The OCA was simply the Russian Orthodox Church in America. It became autocephalous in 1924 because Patriarch Tikhon was under arrest and couldn't properly administer the Church, especially outside of Russia. The Ruthenian Catholics became the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese.

[@nachokoenig6279]

@aLadNamedNathan those are two separate autochephalous communions the O.C.A. (Orthodox Church in America) which has its origins in the original poster described and is under the Elpidophoros. Then there is R.O.C.O.R. (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) which is under the Patriarchate of Moscow. There are also other communions in the U.S. like the Bulgarians but all these communions are in at least partial communion with each other

[@aLadNamedNathan]

@@nachokoenig6279 I agree with most of what you said, but the OCA did NOT come out of the Catholic Church.

[@ggarza]

@@nachokoenig6279 You are right! I have corrected my mistake. OCA is “in” and not “of.”

[@JudithSanchez-ht6jn]

@@aLadNamedNathangood information I born catholic but orthodox appeal to me

[@marsmaniac1]

I just watched your request for videos in 2024 yesterday and I thought, I haven't seen a video of yours on the PNCC yet, I should mention them in a comment. Too late now! Thank you for covering this small but regionally well-known denomination! The other member church in the Union of Scranton is the Nordic Catholic Church, they and the PNCC have overlapping similarities with high-church Anglicans and Episcopalians.

[@brandonlovelady8659]

So much similarity that Fr. Calvin Robinson came to the NCC from the Free Church of England!

[@christinecain5094]

I recently found out that one branch of my family was (some still are) Greek Catholic. I’d love to see a video on them.

[@tukaes6651]

PNCC still has relations with Polish Catholic Church (Polish member of Union of Utrecht). There were speculations previous year about the possibility of episcopal ordinations from PNCC for Polish Catholic Church.

[@seandodd3998]

This is no longer the case.

[@gazoontight]

Very nice explanation. Thank you.

[@jec1ny]

As an Orthodox Christian, there is not much here that I would seriously disagree with. I wonder what form of liturgy they use.

[@jdotoz]

Generally, they seem to align with the Roman Missal.

[@jec1ny]

@@jdotoz The 1500 year old one, or the 50 year old one?

[@jdotoz]

@@jec1ny Yes.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

The mass I attended this past Monday, Christmas, I noticed the PNCC bishop leading the mass didn't use the filioque.

[@jatar6605]

The PNCC was actually REALLY CLOSE to union with the Orthodox through the AWRV back in the 1970’s. Unfortunately, due to disagreements about bishop celibacy, that union never occurred. That being said, some OCA priests actually continue to lead some PNCC retreats, providing us with hope that one day this horrible schism will end!

[@michaszendzielorz6114]

Im a Pole and I didn’t even know such church exists. Thanks!

[@JudithSanchez-ht6jn]

I live in Bayonne New Jersey and there a polish National Church

[@mournblade1066]

Probably because it doesn't exist in Poland; it pretty much exclusive to the U.S. and Canada.

[@flameguy3416]

It's an American thing to create new churches

[@pj_ytmt-123]

​@@flameguy3416And those offshoots planted in America are often far less politicized than their origins. Something to think about.

[@Mick116]

Thank you as always. Our communion - the United Ecumenical Catholic Church - is a second or third cousin of the Old Catholic, PNCC, and other Independent Sacramental churches. I do appreciate their soteriological universalism.

[@mooks500]

Okay protestant

[@Mick116]

Indeed, traditionalist fundamentalist. 😉

[@traceyedson9652]

“Soteriological universalism” would dogmatically place them outside catholic Christianity.

[@jethrojamesachivida4083]

Please do a video about Binitarian movements and denominations, Sir! Hapoy New Year, and thanks for your unfailing quest to teach and enlighten both Christendom and the wider world!

[@andrewdanylchuk5144]

We had a Polish National Catholic Church parish in Park Slope Brooklyn when I was young. I knew families who attended there. The church building was sold years ago and demolished . What a shame.

[@ambientapathy777]

They are currently in talks with the Greek patriarchate about coming into the Orthodox Church

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

There is some dialogue between the PNCC and some Anglican churches. I noticed on the PNCC's Facebook a posting of a meeting. Anglican Province In America, Anglican Church In America, and Anglican Catholic Church. With the OCA also meeting with them.

[@packersstink8519]

Do a video on the Society of Saint Pius X

[@CageTheory]

Hey man, I’d love a Christian Science Church video in the new year! This cult/denom tends to confuse me.

[@RayRice-lr8vi]

Most would honestly consider them a cult as opposed to a denomination. A book called "A World More Bright" is a biography on Marie Baker Eddie and covers a good amount of their theological roots, though not where the church has gone since.

[@TheBlinky81]

They’re a cult like JW

[@CageTheory]

@@RayRice-lr8vi Yes good point. That's a more accurate classification

[@jeffking4176]

Definitely more of a Cult. And their beliefs can definitely be confusing for Christians. Started by Mary Baker Eddy. More Metaphysics than Christian religion. God is seen as a Devine principal rather than a n actual Being. Sin, evil, sickness, and death are only illusions and not reality. Hope this brief explanation helps. ✝️🙏🙂

[@jenniferkerner6444]

You'd be fascinated with the story of St. Stanislaus Kostka Polish Catholic Church in St. Louis, MO, if you're not already familiar. They were Roman Catholic, but then there was a years-long court battle and ultimately a split that started as a dispute over ownership of parish land and property (I had the chance to follow the beginnings of that battle during my time as a radio news reporter in St. Louis). They're not part of the PNCC (although there is a PNCC parish just west of St. Louis), they seem to be totally independent, and in fact appear to be open and affirming to the LGBTQIA+ community... at least for now.

[@jiminycricket1593]

I’m sure they will drop off soon then. For it is written: For once thou go woke thou shall go broke.

[@jenniferkerner6444]

@@jiminycricket1593 it's been 18+ years since they were excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church, and 10+ years since the St. Louis archdiocese ended its court fight for St. Stanislaus' property (which St. Stan's won, by the way), and they're still kickin'. So losing the hate hasn't emptied the offering plate, if you will indulge a rather clunky rhyme 🙂 There are a handful of church members who have voiced interest in reconciling with Rome/the STL archdiocese, as I understand it; if that minority grows to a "we control your purse strings" size, that would be more likely to bring about your prophecy.

[@therongjr]

My maternal grandparents were Polish National Catholic!

[@athandangerousofalexandria]

For those PNCC members in the comments, I have a question: why hasn't the PNCC attempted to establish communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church? It seems to me some of the changes made after breaking communion with Rome align with Orthodoxy significantly. This isn't a rhetorical setup or anything, I'm genuinely curious

[@jatar6605]

Hi! So the PNCC has actually tried this in the past. In the 1970’s, we were extremely close to union with the East under the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate. However, the Antiochians would not accept married bishops, and our bishops (since we were still under the Union of Utrecht) could not accept this proposal. Since then, numerous OCA priests have been active in PNCC communities, and because of the closeness there, there were discussions of union with them. However, since the OCA doesn’t have a Western Rite, it has become a stumbling block for union. It would also mean having to give up our inter-communion agreement with the Roman Catholics, and the bishops are not comfortable with that at the moment given how many parishioners are either former Roman Catholics or have strong ties to them

[@athandangerousofalexandria]

@@jatar6605 Thank you for that explanation! That’s fascinating

[@averyjacob7630]

I’m a Jew who grew up with a Polish Roman Catholic background in Scranton. The PNCC was a weird thing growing up in Scranton, especially with a dying Polish community. The Catholics there knew about it and would have interwoven relationships but everyone was distinct come Sunday.

[@elgringolobo97]

Is that Fr. Adam Kotas in the thumbnail? I was going through RCIA in the Diocese (now Archdiocese) of Las Vegas when he founded his new PNCC parish. There was a letter from the Bishop of Santa Rosa in our bulletins to inform Catholics throughout the Las Vegas area about Fr. Adam and his schism from the Church.

[@geraldarcuri9307]

Raised in and devotedly practiced the Roman Catholic faith until the age of 19. Converted to a Reformed Protestant viewpoint at 22. Searching for a church body that I could fully agree with ever since. I'm 74. It appears that the PNCC is the church I have been looking for all my life. This video is a "deep dive" for sure... and very helpful. Thanks.

[@luigisantoriello3289]

Have you ever tried with Orthodoxy?

[@nisibonum7634]

It is funny that you choose your church like it's a university or a job.

[@luigisantoriello3289]

@@nisibonum7634 well,given that the vast majority of religious people just believe that the religion they were accidentally born in is true,any spiritual research is a quite commendable effort.

[@nisibonum7634]

@@luigisantoriello3289 I guess it comes down to what kind of research. Does one decide what they think is right and find a church that matches that. Or does one surrender themselves to the Holy Spirit and through access to what one knows is true, look to allow themselves to be obedient to and guided by the Holy Spirit and Jesus. Even if that is not what they personally like.

[@kylejacobson9587]

Have you considered Anglicanism?

[@pilotusa]

I am with a Catholic CHurch independent of Rome with the same apostolic lineage as the PNCC (as well as many others). I found the video helpful in learning that the PNCC did not originate in Poland! That was a rel surprise to me.

[@miss_naomi7377]

There was a Polish National Church named St. Josephat’s in Duluth, MN.

[@ronaldbobeck9636]

I grew up in the Wyoming Valley of NEPA. Through the towns of Wilkes Barre, Scranton and the former coal mining town have parishs. I wished that the Trads would consider a similar course of action instead of constantly bashing the Holy Father.

[@TheFranchiseCA]

It is ironic that reactionaries see themselves as traditional.

[@TheNibNerd]

My uncle is a priest in the PNCC.

[@kaymgee08]

Annoying of the sick? Please don't - they have enough to put up with!

[@essafats5728]

How amazing in this day and age of the internet readily at ur fingertips, humans are still simian and so ignorant.

[@petrkaminek6161]

Could you make a video about Old Catholic churches (Utrecht Union)?

[@KnightSky115]

Could you do a video on the Union of Utrecht?

[@thelasthandbook6704]

What's kind of odd is that the Boston Archdiocese had separate Polish churches from the early 1900s through the 1990s, in all cases I'm aware of literally just down the street from the "regular" Catholic church. These were NOT PNCC churches, but Roman Catholic churches catering to a particular ethnicity. These churches were official with their own clergy and so on. I think at their height there 20 or so churches so designated. All gone now. Just mentioning this because I somehow thought it was something similar under discussion in the video, not a separate denomination.

[@loriloristuff]

A lot of times, at the turn of the 20th century, Catholic dioceses established what was known as a national parish for particular countries. The folks in those national parishes had their spiritual needs met, usually by a priest from their own country, and the bishop didn't have to listen to complaints from diocesan priests who weren't thrilled with a strange language (the Mass was in Latin in Roman parishes, so that didn't matter, but everyday requests did). In the Chicago Archdiocese, Our Lady of Pompeii (Italian) and St. Alphonsus (German) were once for immigrants and their progeny.

[@CatholicTraditional]

Another chief reason the denomination in this video was established was having the Mass in Polish. Every Roman Catholic parish until the 1960’s, even the ethnic ones, had the TLM.

[@graf]

I live in Poland and have never heard of them, interesting stuff!

[@petrkaminek6161]

There is an Old Catholic Church in Poland (Kościół Starokatolicki w Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej). Polish National Church is active in USA only.

[@genevieverose1234]

so now I'm wondering what is preventing the pncc from sharing communion with the Eastern Orthodox church as a whole? genuinely curious, because it's sounding like a harmonious blend of Western and Eastern theology

[@traceyedson9652]

EO doesn’t view denominations, apostolic succession, & communion in the more formalistic & mechanistic manner that Westerns do. It’s much more relational, which makes it more complicated since there is really no procedure for reconciling groups in the West who have left the Roman obedience without “becoming Orthodox.” Since we view the EO Church as holding the Faith of the “undivided” Church, entering into Her communion is seen as the natural step. Some local Churches provide for a Western Rite. But recognizing “orthodoxy” in another “denomination” and receiving them as a Sister Church would probably require a pan-Orthodox consensus. And such a thing is currently impossible with Moscow & Constantinople is schism over ecclesiology. Willing to be corrected by better-informed Orthodox. But that’s my understanding as a layman!

[@genevieverose1234]

thanks for the info ! that makes a lot of sense. it hurts my heart that Moscow and Constantinople are in schism😢

[@jajohnson7809]

​@@genevieverose1234It hurts a lot of hearts. I speak as one who lives in a community with a Greek parish and a ROCOR parish.

[@SantaFe19484]

Hodur responded to excommunication the same way Luther did. This is the first time I have ever heard of denomination, or even church, that requires membership dues to its members.

[@RollTideJD]

Would like to see a video on the "Full Gospel Baptist Church"

[@NoQuestionsAskedd]

When will another Ecumenical Council be convened to solve all the disputes? Enough of National Churches we need the Pentarchy back or this time let's have a Dodecarchy (12 Patriarchs based on the 12 Apostles/Disciples)

[@vieersfan]

I’m PNCC, thanks for doing us justice!

[@RayianneGabrielMaravilla]

Please do the Philippine Independent Church (IFI) next.

[@ffallguy]

Interesting. I'll have to find out more.

[@cw-on-yt]

Okay, here's what I heard from 14:50 to 18:45: "We _totally_ don't believe the same thing about damnation that Roman Catholics believe. Instead, we just believe exactly what Roman Catholics believe about damnation, which we differentiate using a more-optimistic _lean_ or _emphasis_ ...plus, we also believe in doctrinal development the way Roman Catholics believe it...just not, y'know, _their_ developments. We're having our own developments. Especially when it gets us closer to union with ROCOR ...wait, not ROCOR. Constantinople. Or Antioch. No, wait, maybe just David Bentley Hart...." 😉 NOTE: The above is a _sympathetic_ ribbing, delivered with a wink and a smile, not a snarl. If a member of the PNCC is reading it, please take it as friendly. (And I fully get that _you wouldn't say it that way,_ and that such simplification is tantamount to straw-manning, etc.) Listening to this description I find myself sympathetic to the PNCC: It seems to embrace something _very close_ to what I would embrace had I thought it was my responsibility (or within my power) to successfully reconstruct Christianity in a probabilistic way from the most-likely-authentic elements of the traditions, East and West. As it happens, I don't think that's my responsibility or within my capacity; I hold that's a departure from Christ's Epistemology-of-Faith. But, I'm sympathetic because if I _did_ believe Christ intended me to figure all that out in order to join the right church, and then to join the church that had the best-available match, I could very easily have joined a PNCC parish. BTW, can we just stand in awe, for a moment, at how _thorough_ Josh was in this video? (Holy cow, dude!)

[@kieferonline]

At 4:20, with the "National Catholic" and the "American National Catholic," I can't help but think of the constituents of Major League Baseball. ⚾ If rival sports leagues can come together, then maybe there is hope for Christian denominations? ✝️

[@ThePelagicHermit]

Smoking that kief at 4:20? Maybe we can get along.

[@carolynholody9281]

Can you do a video about the Palmerian church?

[@somerandomguypart]

fun fact in the picture of the old catholic bishop of the USA, bishop john of shanghai and San Francisco is there, one of the most well known american states

[@owainthoma3945]

John Maximovitch?

[@somerandomguypart]

@@owainthoma3945 yes, I use the office title

[@andy41417]

20:54 BVM parish seems to favor modernism and diminish tradition resulting in a church of pageantry but no guilt like Anglicanism.

[@deltoro720]

Please make a video about Anglo-Catholicism!

[@epongeverte]

The Old Catholic Churches of Utrecht are in full communion with the Anglican Communion (the Episcopal Church in the USA).

[@traceyedson9652]

The Anglican Communion no longer exists as such except on paper. Nearly the entire global south has repudiated the primacy of Canterbury and are not in communion with ECUSA, Canada, Australia, etc.

[@estebanmondragon6726]

We need a video about the Mexican Catholic Apostolic Church

[@silverforest4682]

monneapolis mn has a Polish National Catholic church, but, they do follow Rome. many churches were edtablished for communities from different countries. ukrainian, greek, etc.

[@maxb.244]

Sound like Anglicans but Polish.

[@pskarnaq73]

Not sure why a denomination would still claim to be Catholic after renouncing the pope.

[@flameguy3416]

Yeah it's definitely Protestant aligned with some Old church values

[@traceyedson9652]

“Catholic” is the Faith. To argue that “Catholic” is “Roman Catholic” because it dogmatizes the exclusivist papacy which teaches it do it must be held to be Catholic is circular reasoning. Roman Catholics need to do a much better job of presenting their case non-arrogantly in public. These mere assertions of dogma are a bit embarrassing.

[@jperez7893]

when the branches are no longer attached to the vine, it dies. however valiant it seems, it still allows divorce and remarriage. unlike the catholic church which does not

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

Yeah, communion is offered either at the rail or standing.

[@Oddn7751]

You should really talk about the Nordic Catholic Church as well! I almost joined that one

[@cbrad-eo6nt]

This video is educated me on the fact that the PNCC it's not a bunch of heretics in a Protestant denomination, but a truly Apostolic, though unfortunately schismatic, member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

[@dman7668]

Meh. It's protestantism.

[@loriloristuff]

Actually it's not protestantism. Go do some simple googling on the subject.

[@dman7668]

@@loriloristuff it basically is.

[@traceyedson9652]

@@dman7668If you have something to say, say it. This is an ecumenical site, and most/many do not accept the papal claims to Vatican I. And many millions who don’t pre-existed both Protestantism and those dogmatic claims. So “it basically is” just doesn’t cut it.

[@dman7668]

@traceyedson9652 There isn't any difference in practice between protestantism and whats going on here. That's my point. They both reject the authority of the magesterium of the Catholic Church. Call it whatever you like but it really is just protestantism. They both reject the same authority.

[@c.s.hayden3022]

On the surface it seems similar to Anglican. A tendency toward one size fits all makes practical sense for any large governing body, be it the Catholic Church or whatever, but distance is inevitably felt.

[@kevanhubbard9673]

When I first heard of this outfit a few years ago I assumed that it was an Old Catholic Church from Poland but other than the ethnic origins of most of its members it doesn't seem to have much to do with the nation of Poland.I think that the Polish National Church was a bit too hard line for the mainstream Old Catholics and have drifted away.

[@Cukorpoczak568]

Lehet, hogy remek a video, de FÁRASZTÓ egy folyamatosan beszélő arcot nézni.... ha a szöveg jó, miért kell látszódni is? Mindenesetre köszönöm a megosztást.

[@LilyoftheValeyrising]

Thank you for your well researched and produced videos. Do you happen to know the Roman Catholic Church’s view on the last days, the rapture, the second coming and tribulation, the reaping or the earth by the angels? Is the book of Revelations in chronological order with regard to the events it depicts? Or is it symbolic Hebrew poetry? Thanks in advance. Also does the RC church believe a person can lose their salvation? Or is it that a person that was a believer beforehand can simply change their mind? Some say that means they were never a believer to begin with. I’m trying to explain the difference to someone.

[@dman7668]

No. The Catholic Church has not given any official interpretation on those mysteries as far as I know. The Catholic Church does not teach once saved always saved. It teaches that you can lose your salvation. It reasons that the wages of serious sin is death. They do not believe in once saved always saved.

[@LilyoftheValeyrising]

@@dman7668 that makes sense. Thank you

[@dman7668]

@LilyoftheValeyrising To further elaborate on what Catholics believe, if one commits a serious sin, what Catholics call "mortal sin" you loose your justification. Unless you receive absolution i.e go to confession and confess these sins to a Catholic Priest you are going to hell. You can be forgiven by God for a mortal sin if you cannot reach a Priest to make a confession if one has complete and perfect contrition for that mortal sin. However the normative means of absolution for mortal sin must come in the form of the sacrament. The Church does teach their are exceptions depending on your circumstances and God is not bound by his sacraments. In Catholicism, there are two kinds of degrees to sin, mortal sin or deadly sin. Then there is venial sin, or sin not unto death. The reasoning for mortal and deadly sins vs venial sins distinction is taken from the New Testament where it is written that there is sin "not unto death". I can elaborate further if you are interested in a more in depth theological explanation. I was pressed for time responding to your question so I had to keep it brief. It is not in Catholicism necessary for you to be without sin in order to be saved under the New Covenant. Only that you be in a state of grace or friendship with God. In order for a sin to be considered a deadly sin the Church has laid out criteria that must be met for it to he deemed a mortal sin. Three conditions must be met in order for the sin to be considered a grave sin. Lastly, when the Catholic goes to confession and the Priest forgives the sin, this is not the Priest actually forgiving the sin. It is actually Christ doing so, the Priest is merely acting in the person of Christ. Catholics believe the Catholic Church was given authority to bind and to loose sin. This authority was transmitted to the apostles and it's outlined that this happened I believe in John 20:23 👇 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” ☝️ The apostles obviously could only exercise this authority if one confessed their sin to the Apostles. Hence confession. Sin according to Catholicism is not just personal, it affects the entire community. The Priest is there to also be a witness to the community that you have repented or your sins. There are actually some similarities to Judaism here. For example, when Jesus heals a man of his disease, he tells the man to still show himself to the Priest that he is healed. For the sake of the communities verification that the man has been restored. Likewise grave sins damage the community and Priest is a witness to the community of sorts that you have been restored to the community. At least that's how I understand it. See this passage below: LUKE 17:14 "When he saw them he said to them, “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went they were cleansed." 1 John 5:16 "If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death.👉 I am not saying that you should pray about that. 👈 Here we learn the Bible is saying that for serious sin, you cannot just pray for it to be healed. If it is a sin not unto death one can be prayed for and the sin can be abolished. But no such instruction is given for serious or deadly sins. That's because we believe the Bible teaches the gravity of the sin may only be lifted under normative circumstances through the sacrament of reconciliation, or baptism which the Church teaches washes away ALL SINS (this was always the original understanding of baptism among Christians which changes after the protestant reformation takes place). I hope you found this insightful and helpful to further your understanding of Catholic beliefs and if you read all that then thank you, I took time out of watching two busy little kids to explain all that because I wanted you to have a better explanation.

[@LilyoftheValeyrising]

@@dman7668 Thank you very much for the detailed response. The Bible verses you quoted are some of the reasons I left Protestantism and became Catholic. The church is such a blessing in my life. Thanks for the encouragement.

[@arturhashmi6281]

Whats funny Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was also the birth place of Unitarianism which is one of Greek Catholic churches, Orthodox rite + Catholic Pope, It was one of the most popular religions in the Commonwealth before Russian occupation which was very harsh for their religion, but there are still milions of them in Ukraine.

[@Lukegriz77]

Ah the Old Catholics, the perfect answer to the question “Why do we need the Pope anyhow?”

[@patrickmccarthy7877]

I go to Trinity Bible Church in Phoenix. We have no authority but the Bible, Jesus is our Pope. I know Alice Cooper from Camelback Bible Church. Fist 👊 bump. School's out for summer . . .

[@essafats5728]

​@@patrickmccarthy7877and where do u think the Bible came from? Did Jesus leave a Church or a book?

[@flameguy3416]

​@@essafats5728 Jesus's Apostles, his messengers have written books which became the new testament.

[@hYpNoXiDe]

@@flameguy3416 You're missing his point. The Apostle's were the first within the Church which Christ founded.

[@essafats5728]

@@flameguy3416 do you know the FULL TRUTH of Christianity's 2000yrs history? Was your faith tradition there at the compilation of the bible? Plz, plz dont say that you are that ignorant. with the internet at the tip of our fingertips, fact checking should not be a problem.

[@philodendron6]

Next up, the MariaVitae Church in Poland, along with the Palmerians! Good luck.

[@kacpergalik609]

Yup, Mariavites are quite overlooked. They number less than 20,000 faithful here in Poland.

[@philodendron6]

@@kacpergalik609 And for more confusion add the Neo-Hussites in the Czech Republic, post destruction of the Empire.

[@kacpergalik609]

Despite their size, I find their characteristics quite interesting

[@kacpergalik609]

I did some googling and their Polish community (Poland is by far the main center) is closer to 25,000.

[@philodendron6]

@@kacpergalik609 Thank you! They were much more numerous at the beginning of the movement. One stands to be corrected, was not Sister Faustina Kowalski 'implicated' at the start?

[@XxOursChannelX4875]

Chatolich church cannot be a Chatolich church without the Pope/bishop of Rome,they are the foundation of the true church which is build by Saint Peter

[@dpwXXIPolskaPolak]

bishop off Rome is in Lateran, Pope always was is and soon will bee back in Vatican and antipopes where in Roman Curia and Vatican Curia as now a such contemprorary is, may he be only shortly,is unfortunatly the curent antipope

[@pj_ytmt-123]

It's about as good as it gets! "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Mt. 7:14)

[@traceyedson9652]

But this probably has little to nothing to do with doctrinal idiosyncrasies of denominations, as devoted to them as we may be!

[@pj_ytmt-123]

@@traceyedson9652 That verse sure sounds like church discipline to me. 😄

[@keithwilson6060]

I have never heard of the PNCC before now.

[@SZKARLUPIEN]

I live in Poland. These guys have zero influence. Noone knows they exist. I wouldn't be surprised if people who attend their parishes don't know they're diffrent from the regular Catholic Church.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

The Polish-Catholic Church of the Republic of Poland is or was the counterpart in Poland.

[@SZKARLUPIEN]

@@jeffkardosjr.3825 They have a minor presence in Poland. Very minor.

[@flameguy3416]

It's an American church for Polish diaspora

[@pj_ytmt-123]

And those offshoots planted in America are often far less politicized than their origins. Something to think about.

[@RepublicofE]

It disappoints me to learn that they have such a prominent universalist streak, however much they may try to distance themselves from the term. They've been one of my favorite non-Lutheran denominations recently.

[@whistlepig64]

How many tries to pronounce Anagignoskomena correctly?

[@wiktorsb1223]

Why they do not become Orthodox? Sounds close to us

[@rainboweldor3730]

masterful

[@telleroftheone]

I had to do double take because I know the pastor in the thumbnail from my time in the Army! Totally surreal seeing him on here, haha

[@carolynholody9281]

Can PNCC priests get married? I’m curious to know.

[@johncramer1586]

Yes.

[@greatguy2141]

I had a Protestant friend who was of Austrian descent. I asked her how come she was not a Catholic since Austria is a majority Catholic country. She told me her great grandfather wanted to bury a relative and at the time the local Catholic priest told him he would not say the final rites unless he was given a substantial amount of money. Her ancestor then went to a Protestant pastor and when he was told the Pastor would give the final rites for free, he converted to Protestantism.

[@lightbearer972]

Thank you for discussing the PNCC, and also for mentioning the smaller independent Catholic denominations! I'm planning to study for ordination in one of the latter. Very few seem to know either exist. Happy New Year Joshua!

[@dman7668]

They are not Catholic denominations. They are really just protestant Churches calling themselves Catholic. That's in my view a more accurate description, in my opinion. Hodur was excommunicated which means he didn't go to Heaven when he died. I'd consider just re joining the actual Catholic Church.

[@pj_ytmt-123]

​@@dman7668Be that as it may, come the general resurrection He who sits on the Great White Throne is the final judge (Rev. 20:11).

[@King-uj1lh]

Why don’t you become an actual catholic? You can’t just form ur own denomination that differs from church antiquity because you want too. There is only One Church, throughout all of Church History everyone affirmed this. Branch theory didn’t exist until at least 1500s and you could argue wasn’t fully fleshed out until 1800. Either you are Catholic or you are not. There are no “independent Catholics” that’s a contradiction in terms. Either you are in the universal church or you are not.

[@traceyedson9652]

@@pj_ytmt-123no one believes otherwise here, as far as I can tell!

[@pj_ytmt-123]

@@traceyedson9652 Well, the guy I was replying to apparently deleted his comment. 😌

[@johnyarbrough502]

"Anagignoskomena, " without missing a beat. Practice or "No sweat, I took Greek". I don't have any Greek but my grandfather said the accent was on the antepenultimate instead of the penultimate syllable. Weird the lessons we sometimes pick up from grandparents.

[@traceyedson9652]

I was impressed!

[@michaelohara2161]

You are not confessing mortal sin in mass. The confiteor prayer is for venial sins only, with an understanding that you will confess the sins in private confession as soon as possible. You can only receive communion in a state of grace.

[@revFatherRick]

FYI. Rome does in fact recognize the PNCC’s form of absolution as legitimate and a valid form of the sacrament. Look in the USCCB pages of Roman Catholic bishops for more information.

[@johnswanson7504]

I am a devout Roman Catholic but I also lean heavily towards I believe in apokatastasis. I won't profess that it is definitely true, but I certainly hope it might be.

[@maligjokica]

That teacing was Anatmised in the 5 ecumenical council wich Rome agnoliges. And with very good reason..that belive will erode the church discipline to the core. In EO churces its no no..althou some theoligians are mensening very mildly but the oficial attidy is very firm agains it.

[@johnswanson7504]

I know that. But I will never lose hope.

[@andy41417]

12:38 So no original sin? 16:40 Temporary punishment purgatory?

[@PageMarker1]

He went rogue and was ex-communicated. Not sure how he was able to conduct a Consecrated Mass afterwards. The idea of Parish owned property sounds good, but sooner or later the Parish would be sued out of existence. Padre Pio had a rough going of things, but remained strong in the Lord, and now he is a Saint, rightfully so.