What made Britain's attempt at a GPMG a failure? With weapon and firearms expert Jonathan Ferguson

At the end of the Second World War, Britain looked to modernise it's small arms arsenal. With the Vickers MG a reliable but ageing weapon and the Bren limited to its 30-round magazine capacity, a more modern, belt-fed, 'general purpose machine gun' was sought. Despite excellent existing designs such as the German MG42, Britain decided to go its own way and build upon its popular Bren gun.
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[@RealShebang]

"Hi, its Johnathan here, with.. a couple of machineguns." sounds like the opening of a really good action movie that I now want to see.

[@RoyalArmouries]

We'll start working on it

[@Trojan570]

Hi,it’s John wick here.Love this channel.

[@cpt_nordbart]

"I'm here to chew bubblegum and show guns and I'm all out of bubblegum."

[@corkcon5]

2:27 😊​@@cpt_nordbart

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for the acknowledgement of our coverage of the X11 SPMG an example of which you have in your video. I wonder if the collection has an example of the BSA adaption of the BREN into a belt fed gun that they designated the BSA X16. I think the National Army Museum has an example which we would love to cover on our channel, as far as I know only 2 or 3 examples were built! Regards, Vic

[@biggtoe90]

I love this stuff. It's like mechanics, engineering, physics, and history all at the same time.

[@tamlandipper29]

Recommend you check out C&Rsenal, and Forgotten Weapons. This subject also has a heap of human psychology.

[@BigWheel.]

@@tamlandipper29 nah he should check out demo ranch because he blows s*** up!

[@kiwigrunt330]

Jonathan's new book: "British Light and General Purpose Machine Guns." Take my money already.

[@jonathanferguson1211]

I don't think I have that one in me to be honest, but never say "never"!

[@kiwigrunt330]

Just stop being honest. There, problem solved. Matt, Vic, Rich, Ian and Othais will help (I'm at a safe distance to volunteer them). Getting hold of porridge-eating Peter's manuscript of his ultimate Bren book (that never appeared) could be useful. On a more serious note, "Death Rattle: The British Soldier's Machine Gun 1870 to 2015" was a fair attempt but had a few issues. It needed more in-depth research and some serious editing. And the binding was crap. It fell apart as soon as I opened it.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for the mention of our video Jonathan! This was fantastic, great to see examples of the SF and GPMG TADEN together.

[@JimmySailor]

Starting with a BREN you can’t use a belt feed system with an MG42 style roller directly attached to the piston. The issue is the locking shoulder or block which the bolt locks into. That shoulder is directly behind the bolt and above the piston’s travel. The only way to do it is a complete redesign of the Bren’s receiver, at which point you might as well purchase a new gun. So it was done it by the short sighted decision to make it back compatible. The X11’s system actually shows a fair amount of promise to me. Just a guess but the weak point is probably the location of the gas port. With a belt gun the port should be slightly closer to the receiver to give a longer sustained impulse. Think about how a SAW will beat itself to death if you feed it Mags instead of belts. The X11 needed more of a push than a harder hit. Just opening up to port won’t have the same effect. Yet on this example the port is obviously in the normal place.

[@rumblin_cynth_rampo374]

And the BREN gun out lived them by still being in service until the 90s as the L4. Used to carry one on my Ptarmigan ERV and ESV (Electronic Repair Vehicle and Electronic Spare Vehicle) detachment for defense.

[@lordsummerisle87]

@@babalonkie It was indeed excellent. I understand why it was eventually dropped but wonder why we haven't seen a more direct equivalent weapon fielded, taking the most useful attributes of the Bren and using more modern design/manufacturing methods? To my mind an accurate DMR/LMG hybrid that can be pressed into a SFMG role with a bit of additional hardware, operable by a single man (either from the shoulder or bipod) but enhanced when served by a small crew, fed with the section's standard rifle mags that can be swapped in a second without moving the weapon from the aim, seems like a hell of useful tool. I'm also curious about the dovetail the very early Mk1s had, which was intended for mounting the No37 telescope (why the No37 is so very robust). Had that feature not been deleted would a low-mag optic on the section LMG have proved as useful "back in the day" as it does today? Would it have accelerated widespread deployment of optics more generally?

[@lordsummerisle87]

@@babalonkie Oh yeah don't get me wrong all the R&D work to invent a slightly different rifle to equip the 150,000-odd British forces isn't the most sensible use of resources. You'll never get enough of a performance edge from a Britain-designed squaddie-proof 7.62 or 5.56 AR-type rifle to make it worthwhile. That's what the MoD is trying to do on the quiet with the SA80 replacement -- buy off-the-shelf AR15s. My money's on the Colt Canada C8 but any of the big manufs' equivalents will work. If you're concerned about robustness of supply chains you're far better off taking something extant and proven and setting up a small modern production line somewhere in the UK and running off a batch every now and then. As to your other point about having your own-made gats turned on you? Well it's happened before plenty of times. When the lead wasps come past you you don't tend to be that interested in whose factory the rifle came out of. Also, politicians tend to be conspicuous by their absence in such situations. They're usually far more concerned by "optics" -- yes if you build a rifle factory you have to sell rifles abroad to make ends meet. Politicos are more worried about Moldovia (to whom we sold our distinct rifles last year, them being an ally) doing a spot of ethnic cleansing on their Ruritanian neighbours and getting flak for it because they're using rifles bought off the Brits than about British troops catching a few rounds from same rifle. Especially if said ethnic cleansing appears on the 9 o'clock news. All that American gear left behind is a bit of a storm in a teacup mind. That part of the world wasn't exactly short of a few million rifles before, a few thousand extra won't make much difference except for propaganda purposes. Heck the Chinese have been making M4 copies for a couple of decades and what with them cosying up to Afghan (:cough: minerals :cough:) I'm sure they could have all the carbines and NVGs they could eat. Does boil my piss a bit that all that kit which wasn't disappeared by the ANA didn't get a few demolition charges before the pull-out but hey ho.

[@tzazosghost8256]

@@lordsummerisle87 in tne 50's the UK still had conscription and a planning assumption of a standing force of 300,000 soldiers. This only fell below 200,000 in the 70's over a decade after the move to an all professional Army. Numbers only dropped below 150,000 in the 1980's.

[@lordsummerisle87]

@@tzazosghost8256 I don't disagree with you my friend, but I'm not quite sure the point you're making. My point was that doesn't make an awful lot of sense for the UK to develop its own smallarms *today*, rather to buy OTS or at most to produce an already proven design onshore. I'm sorry that I didn't communicate that clearer! :-)

[@Doughman888]

India used their Bren's in mainstream service until 2012.

[@Mongo63a]

My guess would be that the designers increase the recoil spring strength to overcome the additional drag in the system. When they did this it made the sear pressure much higher and thus resulted in needing a 2 finger pull trigger.

[@reddevilparatrooper]

I really like the Bren and ZB gas regulator because you won't lose the gas plug if you don't put it in right. Very true in the Belgian and M240 model. That's the only weakness I saw in the gun. When my platoon deployed for Iraq, I told and trained my gunners about this problem. I managed to beg and steal as many gas plugs about 25 of them to make sure my platoon's guns run good in combat. My gunners paid attention to their guns and none went down other than a dud round. I gave my gunners 2 new spares just in case.

[@NIGHTSTALKER0069]

Put many rounds through a 240 and never had any gas plug problem.

[@Interdiction]

Bren was never a viable option for heavy suppressed fire

[@reddevilparatrooper]

@@Interdiction I agree. I used to be an M-60 gunner in a Weapons Squad. The amount of 7.62mm ammo is tremendous to carry. For me the gunner carrying. 300 rounds on my body on bandoliers in cloth pouches 100 rounds each one on the gun and 300 in my ruck and 300 on my assistant gunner in his ruck during the 1989 Panama Invasion. Yeah it sucked.. Adrenaline rush and pouring sweat from being scared. fuck yeah!!! The Bren required plenty of loaded magazines. All squad or section members in a British Infantry Section or squad was required to have 1 or two loaded BREN magazine on them during combat.

[@John-nw8uj]

I served with the Cheshire Regt. They had two very old Sgt Majors, long service and one lunch in Sgts Mess I was given a serious talk on how in their opinion the army should never have got rid of the belt fed Vickers. When you needed sustained fire power, nothing beat the Vickers. I was LMG gunner at one stage in my service and loved my new BREN in 7.62. john

[@MrAvant123]

During one assault in the Pacific (Guadal Canal I think) the sustained fire of their Vickers (Browning) style gun helps a small contingent of Marines to win against a very much larger Japanese force

[@zoiders]

@@MrAvant123 That was the water cooled Browning 1917 and while they did prove decisive in turning back Japanese charges the 1917 suffered rather persistent problems with failures to extract cartridges meaning that the very few trained machine gunners were running up and down the line fixing stoppages throughout. Despite being a J M B design it was never the reliable beast that the Vickers was.

[@Duke_of_Petchington]

It feels like, this only failed only because some of the designers tried to “re-invent the wheel” as the saying goes. Honestly a belt fed BREN actually sounds like an incredibly scary weapon to be shot at by, given the Mag fed one we know and love were known to incredibly accurate weapons even for LMGs.

[@bamaboni]

The Czech engineers at Brno managed to adapt the design to accept mags and belts (ZB Vz 52/57 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXPGgIWNZZt0m6c)

[@Duke_of_Petchington]

@@bamaboni that weapon is much like the Korean spin, mag and belt fed. TADEN was pure belt fed. Though it’s interesting I’ll give it that.

[@bamaboni]

@@Duke_of_Petchington There's also the UK Vz 59, which only feeds from belts. However I wouldn't say it's a Bren, more of a BESA in GPMG form

[@donurquhart8756]

just found this site - love it. When I joned the NZ army in 1972 we were still using the enfield MK5 and because I was the smallest member of my section, I was of course designated as the Bren gunner - loved that piece of kit. We later updated to the 7.62 nato SLR L1A1 [the navy got the L1A2] but we soon figured out how to get the A1 to fire as an automatic.

[@marksbikeexports5123]

Where's my matchstick........

[@davehood2667]

Ironic that the FN MAG is much the same modifications applied to the BAR.

[@RedXlV]

Difference being that Ernest Vervier did it right.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

We used the LMG (Mag Fed, 30 x 7.62) in rural Op Banner. One of the inherent problems with any belt-fed medium MG in that scenario is that forcing through man + kit through blackthorn hedge often meant decorating the hedge like a xmas tree: pouch’s, patches of clothing, but worst of all, GMPG link. The GPMG is a peerless medium gun with its sustained fire role. The LMG, you could effective snipe with it, single tap, which is tricky on a GMPG where double-tapping is the minimum effective rate of fire unless you adjust the gas rate so that it’s operating outside of its design specs. LMG was a game-changer in NI.

[@GolfMike09]

LMG gunner Op Corporate. During the deployment training we had the opportunity of target practise against drones that the RCT had (fairly large remote control planes).The operator got really aggressive because we shot them all down. I think there may have even been punches thrown. As you say, very accurate impressed the hell out of range staff during Brecon, they had been so used to gpmg's being used.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

@@GolfMike09 Did a lot of GPMG SF on South Georgia, 1982. We were Recce Plan; basically a slightly adjusted COP, Fermanagh, 1982 (1 Para took over from us as Corporate and Paraquet were in planning stages. One of our roles - we arrived just after hostilities - was to establish SF firing points on Shackleton heights. But also to patrol the 4 disused whaling stations. Our gunner swapped his GMPG for his LMG for those long patrols. Wonderful days. I was on the gun in a rifle coy after about 6 months. Gunners love their guns. That section weapon ethos you get in training - portage and cleaning shared - goes out the window once at you Battalion. Hands off!! It’s mine! All mine! 😎🤟

[@rudyyarbrough5122]

Every gun builder should be required to use the gun in simulated combat with all of the distractions that the soldier would face. Weight, complexity, and ease of use should all be primary considerations. Knowing that the MG 34 and MG 42 were out there to study is amazing to me that they didn't even look at them. As you said gross memory function is what all guns should be designed for, not in the test facility.

[@cageordie]

That's what troop trials are for. The engineers who develop weapon systems are not the sort of people who should be wandering around with live ammunition. Then there's the problem of the government scientists who specify and assess the things. We had a system that the troops loved in a couple of programs, but the government chose the competitors for their own reasons. In one case we had been working with the troops and the development agencies and met exactly the requirements, but the procurement people made the decision and liked the system that had better marketing. I got to talk to one of the people who made the decision ten years later, by then he was a sales dude. I took great pleasure rubbing his nose in his mistake. The system they chose did not work out for them, or the Royal Signals.

[@russbetts1467]

As a former UK Serviceman, I notice that the TADEN LMG feeds the Belt from the right-hand side - ejecting the Links to the Left - Unlike the MAG, which feeds the belt from the Left-hand side and the Links out of the Right side, as with most other MG's. That may explain the peculiar belt feed mechanism.

[@tHeWasTeDYouTh]

great video. I read that in the competition for the British GPMG you had the AA-52, FN MAG, M60, SIG MG51, Madsen-Saetter, MG3 and the X11. The GPMG that came in first place was the FN MAG with the X11 being second only losing because of the feeding system. I also read that Birmingham Small Arms also created their own version of a Bren belt fed GPMG known as the X16. Hopefully Royal Armories has the X16 or is able to find it so we can get a video.

[@ethelmini]

Brens came with a spare barrel in a carrying pouch with other spares. Unlikely they were carried in rifle section advances, but they'd have been available when tripods weren't. The Bren magazine catch was thought to be too easy to release accidentally, so the locking pin makes sense when you could just clip a new belt on to the tail of the previous one.

[@libertarian8218]

Got your book, love your book. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@jonathanferguson1211]

Thank you, I shall do!

[@balham456]

This guy’s presentations go from strength to strength.

[@SORROWCODE]

When you started talking about why the gun didn't catch on, I thought you were going to say that the parts for the feed system working on vertical movement, converted by a non connected piece moved by the bolt, therefore causing jams, but what you said sounds worse.

[@chooseyouhandle]

Wow! I've been waiting for someone to make a video about that gun. I guess it's not surprising that it would be you guys.

[@Bob_Lennart]

This might just have worked if they did something like what the Russians did with the RP-46. Imagine a completely standard Bren gun onto which you simply stuff a belt feeder instead of a magazine.

[@zulubeatz1]

I have noticed a lot of American firearms experts & historians proclaim that the British intermediate cartridge had it right. They say it was superior to both 7.62 & 5.56, but they were basically bullied by the US into accepting the 7.62 because of their bloody awful M-14 fixation. Then the British had to convert the EM-2 into a 5.56 rifle which gave us the SA-80 complete with its flaws.

[@stevewiles7132]

I got to use a 7.62 mm Bren while in the Australian army. Very nice weapon.

[@rhannay39]

Yeah the LMG. Very nice.

[@matthayward7889]

Another brilliant video! As sad as I am that the TADEN turned out to be pretty rubbish, at least we got the L7 out of it.

[@davewarrender2056]

As a former UK vet , the two best weapons I've used are the SLR and GMPG , both 7.62 , both capable of taking a beating while still working. Also both had the simplest stripping down , cleaning and reassembly . The Gmpg when fired from either it's bipod or SF mount , was a joy to fire. You always felt safe , like it would never let you down

[@cageordie]

Once a vet always a vet, there are no former vets. I did blankfire system development at ROF Blackburn, we belted up two batches of 2500 blanks then fired the first belt without a break, left it for ten minutes to heat soak, fired another 2500 and checked at the end that the projector was still working. We got the barrels bright orange and burned the surface off, but the GPMG just kept going. Our armorer did clean them between uses though.

[@kaspi001]

Czechs have developed the ZB vz. 52 which was capable of being both magazine- and belt-fed.

[@cbrstar7145]

It would be interesting to see the BSA X-16 which was also a Bren to belt fed conversion. And the little I've read about the X-16 it sounds like it worked extremely well but was too costly to produce compared to the FN MAG. It would be neat to compare the engineering difference as they are a British company as well.

[@chooseyouhandle]

Similar with the EM-2 except for that part about working extremely well.

[@solventstudios]

Fantastic video as always. Thanks!

[@陳奕釩-i4c]

The bad thing about these:not using saint Browning's design like the FN MAG did(which is basically a belt feed BAR

[@wendigo1619]

That one with the shoulder stock is massive, looks over 5feet long

[@dickybird6916]

That SAR 87 to Jonathan's left definitely needs a vid.

[@Rrgr5]

Well we can somehow consider that the Vz.59 is that gun done right, so could be said that it wasn't a bad idea, just not well implemented.

[@Camper_Lv]

I'm waiting for a day when he gonna explain that G36 looking thing on the wall.

[@RoyalArmouries]

That day is coming, dw.

[@Ponen77]

Sterling Armaments sar 87

[@annoyingbstard9407]

I’d guess the demand wasn’t that pressing. Belt fed guns were needed for tench warfare and for fighting from defensive positions. By 1942 Britain was largely fighting a more offensive, mobile war for which the Bren was ideal.

[@arthurcrime]

My uncle Jack was a bren gunner at Tobruk, he had no fingerprints from changing red hot bren barrels.

[@SonsOfLorgar]

Sounds like that would have been a bonus if he'd ever ended up as a PoW😅

[@DRNewcomb]

Very interesting video. One comment is that, at times, the interesting specimens under discussion sort of get lost among all the interesting specimens in the background. Too much to keep sorted.

[@AOA2011]

So great! Please more videos like this, find this so interesting!!

[@Equiluxe1]

I think I can see why they went with the semi-rotational transfer mechanism, they were looking for a way to shorten the breech area of the gun and so did not want a vertical slot for a transfer bar to run in. It would probabely have worked fine if they had used needle roller bearings to reduce friction.

[@myfavouritethings3187]

I've no clue what you said but it sounded great

[@kaisercreb]

instead of a reworked BREN Britain ended up with a reworked BAR

[@andreww2098]

maybe the removable feed tray was so they could sell the gun in different cartridge sizes, just change the feed tray and barrel and away you go?

[@normanlesley1867]

Post war the Czechks experimented with A gun they could the ZGB that was magazine fed, but with an insert in the magazine well could be belt fed

[@FlashPan73]

I remember when I was a kid in the early 80s and I would watch all the old 40's war movies with my Grandad. Always thought, why did everyone else have a MG with a belt and the UK a magazine. Would be so much better to put a belt on the Bren! Now I know why....thank you. I do wonder though if more R&D was done could it have been possible to do a belt fed Bren well?

[@jameslewis2635]

I don't get why, having seen how awkward the belt feed mechanism was on these guns, the plant manager didn't just tell the designer to use a mechanism type that is proven to work well already.

[@SteveDonaldson-r5k]

When I was employed on nuclear sites in Germany in the eighties, we had the LMG (basically the bren gun). We carried 600 rounds in magazines in a large metal box. One man carried the gun, the other guy the ammunition. It was not expected that we would exhaust the ammunition. We were trained to change the barrel but weren't supplied with replacement barrels.

[@danscott3880]

You and Gun Jesus (Ian) keep this interesting

[@noele6588]

In some ways a besal(emergency bren) shortened receiver in .280 British. Using 30 round mags that were compatible with the EM2s similar to the C1/C2 compatibility.

[@davitdavid7165]

This is the last breath of the bren. So cool!

[@F1ghteR41]

I fail to see what would put FN MAG before PKM/PKT, aside from maybe - in very hot climates in open terrain - its feed system. On the topic of the video itself - great to see the whole story finally explained, thanks!

[@SonsOfLorgar]

I'd say the rimmed cartridge and the extra recoil stroke belt extraction and round suspended in the bolt face of the open bolt system that a rimmed cartridge requires. A PKM using a rimless cartridge that strips the cartridge from the belt as the mechanism is released to chamber and fire in the same way as the FN MAG would be the ultimate GPMG with currently existing tech.

[@cgi2002]

Tbh I'd call the MG3 the best GPMG, it's just not as widely used. As basically everyone has said, after WW2 everyone basically wanted a modernised version of the MG42 in a new cartridge as their GPMG. Rheinmetall did just that, admittedly made harder by the Russians stealing the toolings and designs for the MG42. So they were forced to reverse engineer an MG42, make new toolings and then update it. They have since updated it a few more times, from the original MG1A1 (literally a direct copy of the MG42 in 7.62 with a chromed barrel and new sights), A2, MG2 and finally the MG3.

[@stevemc6010]

@@SonsOfLorgar there are 7.62x51mm PKM variants made by Poland and Bulgaria

[@F1ghteR41]

@@SonsOfLorgar I don't get the argument about the cartridge at all, to be frank. There are PKM variants for rimless cartridges, after all.

[@F1ghteR41]

@@cgi2002 For starters, where do you get this nonsense about Soviets 'stealing' tooling and design documents for MG42? Reparations are what they are - rightful claims on German property used to kill millions on Soviet citizens and inflict great harm on the Soviet soil. It's the same with the French and the Brits, by the way, it's just that some of those would also blow up the leftover buildings. Moreover, I've yet to see a source substantiating the claim about tooling specifically. Next, MG42 and its lineage sufffers from several problems, namely ammo sensitivity and high recoil. Also, chrome lining was introduced on MG42 quite early on, before transition to MG1.

[@Hollyw00dz]

"Hi it's Johnathan here with... a couple of machine guns" Sounds like the second panel of a meme.

[@SafetyProMalta]

Shows even more the genius of the Stoner 63.

[@parallel-knight]

Two things I wanted in ww2 to have a later version of the Farquhar Hill semi automatic rifle as standard rifle for us brits, the webley 1913 semiautomatic pistol as our sidearm and have a belt fed bren as our GPMG. Thst would have been so god damn cool and I imagine a lot better for the soldiers. Just imagine if they kept the Farquhar Hill rifle in ww1 and developed it and simplified it for ww2 and then the beautiful webley 1913 automatic pistol… god damn

[@chooseyouhandle]

That rifle and pistol were ww1 tech and even if they were mote successful they would be obsolescent by ww2. I can see the Webley semi-auto being developed into a superior pistol during the interwar years but the rifle was always a stop gap measure. It would have been nice if Britain got a semi-auto rifle before ww2 (they were thinking of adopting the Pedersen rifle) but they had a limited budget and didn't think such a rifle was worth the money. The British had an odd disdain for SMGs during the interwar period and didn't appreciate how advantageous semi and full auto would be over a bolt action.

[@sevenman9672]

Why not go the whole hog and have us adopt the Beardmore-Farquhar machine gun?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

That belt pulling mechanism is almost identical to the tray pulling mechanism of the Hothckiss Portative, so it's easy to say where they got the idea. Obviously to pull an horizontal 30 rounds strip requires much less energy than pulling a belt.

[@kencampbell1750]

Is the trials board report on that competition available online or no?

[@NIGHTSTALKER0069]

Wish I had 1/8 the collection that is behind you

[@Chongo_657]

@RoyalArmouries Have you ever done a video on the Anzio 20mm rifle?

[@tikkathreebarrels]

Not relevant in a big way but the mention of a Brown Bess unit being taught to use the middle finger on the trigger: same here on Lee Enfields and mad minutes. First finger and thumb hold the bolt knob, middle finger works the trigger.

[@DiegoMartinezCoria]

Having always enjoyed Jonathan's slightly pedantic manner, this is another nice bit of history and engineering wrapped up in one.

[@geddycurrent1174]

It would have been better to ratain the BREN's gas system, sights barrel and modify the receiver to be able accept spade grips or butt stock. The bolt carrier group can be redesigned for a rotating AK style bolt, put a cam stud/roller on top and fit a MAG 58 style feed cover. May as well copy the MG42 trigger mech while your at it too and you have a solid GPMG

[@markmanwaring3823]

I thank you for such a great vid , clearly the build quality of those units is just as one would expect , they look just great . I reckon I need to test them both lol. As section gunner back in the early 90s i trained on the M60 and MAG 58 , I would love to burn a few belts just once more lol.

[@jordansmith4040]

Losing to the FN MAG is no surprise, considering how many countries also adopted it.

[@MickAngelhere]

I saw Bren Guns being used by the Nepalese army back in 1990

[@kirkmooneyham]

I would like to have seen the top cover open and the action moving to show the belt feed function on the TADEN MG. Other than that, very good video, enjoyed it, thanks.

[@hadrianbuiltawall9531]

Would the Vickers K / Vickers GO have been a better choice? The LRDG seemed more than happy with them and strapped as many as the could to their vehicles.

[@waynemcgee9633]

First off, thanks for your informative video. My comment is directed to the last few minutes where you describe your confusion over the unattached feed tray. I believe that they intended to: a. Open top cover, b. Remove feed tray, c. Withdraw top cover pin and remove the top cover, d. Insert an (imaginary?) magazine housing which is held in place by the top cover pin. This would allow rifle magazines to be used. The only evidence I have have for this flight of fancy, is that the sights are still offset so as to view around a non existant top mounted magazine.

[@Hugh__Jayness]

You don't need an engineering degree to notice how overly complicated that belt feed system is.

[@anish-79]

Czechoslovakia turned their 20 Round Box fed magazine LMG chambered in 8mm Mouser to belt fed LMG chambered in 7.62×54mmR Russian ( Soviet ). England went with FN MAG .

[@SonsOfLorgar]

Yes, the PKM and the FN MAG'58 are diverging branches from the same ancestor. And iirc, the Brittish were the first to adopt the 7.62×51mm version of the FN MAG, while the first country to adopt it did it in 6.5×55mm mauser.

[@itsnodawayitustabe5654]

Springfield Armory did similar projects based around the BAR action in 1944

[@CL-vz6ch]

Interesting. Great chat.

[@critterjon4061]

Anyone know why Enfield is abbreviated as two letters instead of one

[@CeskaKrysa]

I'm czech... i hear bren and i appear instantly.

[@quinncoffman3892]

Imagine if someone broke into his house and all they hear is "hey its Johnathan here.....with a couple of machine guns."

[@gyleswiggins1115]

Fantastic video. The feed mechanism on the X11 doesn’t seem that unique, well as I understand it (which could be wrong!) but seems very similar in operation to the Vickers/Maxim which takes the recoil force from the cut out in the recoil plate, converts it to rotary motion which then operates the slide and actuating pawls in lateral motion?

[@marktancred9536]

What is the rifle on the right hand end of the rack, next to the number 320 ?

[@andrewhemingway337]

I’ve been to the armies today there was a great monologue about the Christmas truths

[@AlexanderWerner]

The X11 looks pretty star-wars-ish, doesn't it?

[@vaclavholek4497]

Very interesting that with a surplus of BESAs, the British military didn't just convert them to .280 or 7.62NATO. Also the Czech UK vz.59 is a belt fed derivative of the vz.26

[@najroe]

indeed, FN MAG and the german MG3 are hard to beat designs, both do the job

[@Kav.]

At long last! Somebody talks in length about the Taden/Turpin. Maybe now I'll actually understand the difference

[@Bigl00z]

At this point I believe an essential point of a good british gun design is to have the belgians involved.

[@RealOlawo]

Would be nice to have a brighter background to see more of the gun itself.

[@simplyphil.photography164]

no so sorry to tell you, both barrels was used at the section level-1988

[@dj1NM3]

I guess the only real way would be to completely re-engineer the Bren Gun and flip the mechanism upside-down, so the piston is directly actuating the belt feed mechanism, which I suppose would mean that the direction the rounds feed through the action be reversed (basically loading in through the old ejection port and ejecting spent cases through where the magazine would previously had been attached) and I'm not really sure that such a complex re-engineering job would be worth all that time an effort.

[@schore69]

can somebody pls tell me what that chunky black assault rifle next to Jonathtan on his left side is? Looks like the lovechild of an Sig Stg 57 and a FN FAL with an 80s carrying handle on top!

[@RoyalArmouries]

We could always just show you in a future video...?

[@schore69]

Oh well, i would appreciate that very much...

[@tamlandipper29]

The second gun screams to me that it was either late or they knew it wasn't going into service for other reasons. 'Fake' trigger features, a fly away feed tray, and a weird novel gribble for the feed mechanism, plus the honking size. They were messing about.

[@joearnold6881]

Barrel change every 200 rounds? That would mean changing barrels more often than you reloaded…

[@AussieStandsWithRussia]

It would be easier to run a series on British successes. There's very few

[@pcka12]

The 1951 British Pathe film shows the Taden gun working very nicely with the new ammunition. Overall the film shows how the British invented the concept which became the 'Armalite' (lightweight arms) in the 1960s!

[@BoerChris]

I notice it has offset sights like the Bren, even though there was no longer any magazine to obscure the centre line. Was that an oversight, or did the column component of the feed mechanism obscure the view?

[@SandrasSpicySpanishSalami]

*Congratulations, you found one of the few Firearms I didn't know existed.*

[@RoyalArmouries]

But if you don't know they exist, how do you know there's only a few!?

[@shingerz]

Good stuff 👍

[@sergecashman4822]

The Czechs designed an efficient short top cover belt feed system in 1952, on which Negev and presumably Negev 7 are based. The British should've copied that. MG 42 and Mag system makes the receiver very long, or forces you to put rear sights on top of the cover like in ss77. I personally don't think either a MAG or PK are that great, so hard to tell why nobody invented something better, at least not until recently. I was a MAG machinegunner in the army so I am very familiar with it's issues. I've never shot a PK but I've seen countless videos about it - it also has a bunch of issues.

[@jehoiakimelidoronila5450]

Imagine an alternate timeline in which that gmpg doesn't have the vertical rotating part, and the majority of parts were stamped...

[@indigohammer5732]

Are the receivers repurposed Bren receivers?

[@jonathanferguson1211]

They are not.

[@jamesbodnarchuk3322]

What is that rifle hanging up on your right?

[@marksbikeexports5123]

Debated since the dawn of time........."is it squaddie proof"

[@amaurysrogeliomorontajr.5702]

Jonathan could you make a video on the m60?

[@smartassdroid5149]

Seems the MAG58/240B was the belt fed Bren evolution.

[@errolmills2192]

I like that you are so thorough, you leave nothing out. Yaaaaaaawn Good night. Love you