What makes a good MMORPG? The 6 Fundamental Pillars of MMO game design

[@TipsOutBaby]

What do YOU think makes a good MMORPG?

[@YouDashTV]

Difficulty, mmo should be challenging. Agree with everything u said in video tho

[@mikwcool123]

Community otherwise how is it an MMO? :)

[@canht95]

Am I the only person that is turned of about world of warcraft classic because of the anti-consumer behavior of Activision Blizzard? Much more hyped about Hytale :)

[@ItsaStev1997]

Systems that reward social interaction, difficult content that leaves people in awe at its completion, progression systems that are linear but also multi-faceted, that is at a set tier there are multiple options to gain power, but also inclusion of more tiers doesn't render previous content useless. Finally, no IMPORTANT daily content that MUST be completed or you miss out or are left behind.

[@Netherlag1]

@@canht95 Me too. I'm really afraid that Activision will ruin classic. They finally saw that there's money to be had from classic, that it will drive in more subscribers. That's why they do it: money. Which is fine. But it will not be enough for them, they will want classic WoW to fit the needs of a larger audience, of a newer generation. So they will make changes to the game. But their greed doesn't end there, Activision will eventually implement a cash shop.

[@ShiyoKozuki]

Current MMO design principles: How can we extract the most money from our player base before they realize how shallow our game is and quit?

[@PhoenixGameMovies]

Underrated comment tbh.

[@GhostEmblem]

draw them in with flashy graphics, apply skinner box psychology and lock promises you know you cant keep behind paywalls.

[@Just_a_Memer]

thats why mmos are kindof dead

[@krishivagarwal5189]

Incorrect. Some games are very well desgined. Hordes.io has literally no microtransactions except for a elixr purchase to remove ads and buy some skins. The whole game is made by one guy, community updated and developed and people get to vote on updates too. And it has thousands of hours of gameplay. And its on a broswer. Same with osrs. I really want to make a non microtransaction based mmorpg which doesn't aim on milking the shit out of the playerbase.

[@abur2803]

@@GhostEmblem *cough*new world

[@saurlex1368]

#1 Progression #2 Customization #3 Immersion - Lore/Environment #4 Mechanics - Depth/Complexity #5 Community - covers competition, cooperation, player interactions, etc.

[@Kili121]

I can see why he split up competition, cooperation and community because you can have both of the former without the latter (MOBAs for example)

[@saurlex1368]

@@Kili121 imo community covers everything people related. Like competition is a lesser thing on pve servers, but yeah people have that urge to be better than the people around them.

[@Just_a_Memer]

I think content is a important part too and the rate you progess trough content or the way content is approached.

[@zerordie4529]

of course filthy casual will leave out most important aspect

[@Mrs.StealUrHusband]

And #6 cooperation

[@salutations4686]

Tips, In my opinion this is one of your best videos to date. It tackles some philosophical topics while remaining enjoyable to watch and listen to. Keep up the good work!

[@TipsOutBaby]

thank you man

[@Troopertroll]

The soundtrack is the single most important ambient aspect of a game, even more than visuals. You cannot leave a lasting impression with a visual style, but humans are adapted to emotionally tying to audio cues.

[@Just_a_Memer]

music and audio are overlooked by many players. I often hear people saying they turn off game sounds and music.

[@realkomic]

Really?

[@NayrAnur]

I don't play Runescape but I know for a fact that I hum the theme song from time to time.

[@dokanyon]

indeed. I can't imagine going back to a video of a game i had played ,after 10 years, smoke some pot and watch the graphics lol

[@JM-vl3cy]

Some games are being hard-carried by their art direction so yes, visual style matters a lot.

[@ArchivisX]

Great video. Would be good to turn this into a series. This just scratches the surface.

[@jasondevon481]

Encountering enemies naturally in the game world is better than battlegrounds or arenas.

[@EL12111]

True, this is what made skyrim epic.

[@realdragon]

Of course but although I wouldn't mind if in addition there was some coliseum where you can fight monsters or other players

[@tomtenarne]

Being able to play the game the way you want not being forced to Raid, pvp, carft and so on. What made classic great was that you could play your class in many diffrent ways due to how the talent tree worked and depending on what type of gear you used. Sure there will allways be cookie cutter builds but if your not playing in the top % then a hybrid spec might be way more fun and still good.

[@edd542]

I think that ties into customization. It sucks when you have to follow a certain build just to be competitive with end game content.

[@realdragon]

Stats are not everything, some parts of my gear is much worse than what it could have been just because I like how it looks, because I like NPC or because "I did important quest and this is my reward I couldn't possibly sell such gift"

[@jimx45]

Open World MMORPG and reasons to explore and be in the world. The best design philosophy comes from WOrld of Warcraft CLASSIC. Make a large expansive world, put secrets in every nook and cranny. People will develop memories about each place. WOW CLassic had the perfect blend of, very casual to level, explore and fight in, never feeling rushed but there is an endgame you can really push hardcore on if you wanted to.

[@Lorcar12]

I would add DIFFICULTY to the list. All the gear in the world can't satisfy you if you don't have the feeling you've earned it. Same goes for any other accomplishment in the game of course - vanilla wow mounts are perhaps the most illustrative example. Vanilla mounts and lvl 15 grey shoulderpads. Also I love how at 7:36 you don't even bother to say "Blizzard" anymore and go straight with "Activision" :D Keep up the great content, I love your classic wow analyses and discussions.

[@Oliver-nt8pw]

I agree with you, but I think that is just part of Progression as tips called it. In another video he explained what he means by this, that you get better gear, and you have more and more difficult tasks, which even with your stronger gear still is harder to complete. I can totally relate to the feeling, that if you really "work" for something, it feels much more satisfactory to achieve it. Thats why the leveling is a piece of shit in retail.. you just face-roll through the content, and even if it takes less time, its still completely wasted time, and is ***in boooring.

[@SilvoKnight]

Difficulty is part of progression speed which is balanced between effort and reward. Both vaguely defined.. effort could be time needed, skill needed, and/or meta knowledge.

[@Lorcar12]

I believe the overall difficulty of a game can be based in various aspects of the game, not just one. Your character's relative strength against trash mobs, progression speed, content accessibility, time needed to master your class, information available about minmaxing, the impact of your personal choices (like going an experimental talent tree as opposed to meta), and even questing..

[@Karnagie]

TheEvilMirror I think bfa makes a great example of this. It does such a great job of providing you with multiple alternative options to gear up outside of dungeons & raids that it’s backfired and made obtaining new gear seem ultimately unsatisfying.

[@josephc.a9421]

I'm writing up an MMORPG right now and these were helpful tips. As a fan of the genre, I can agree with this list as the priority. I do appreciate 3 other things following this list: Story, graphics, and combat.

[@lunalights897]

Ohh that bear train still makes me smile from ear to ear :D, That simple train of snarling paws felt so good. So much the game i wanna play. Imo the best contend is the contend we as the players create ourselfs.

[@Zack_Wester]

yep. I dont remmber many of the game made events well. I do remmber the stupid and silly stuff that was completly random (remmber I played on a RP server whit one character). the first one was when I was exploring one of the hive thingis for a quest and stumbled upon another player we had a bit of silly RP event there in the "cave" where I /e poked a hive thingi whit my knife. followed by another 30 min of us just talking and walking around. later I joined the guild said player was in and remained untill I quit wow in early cataclysm. another was in Wrath when I as one of the guilds lead engineer, was the squad lead of one of the team I think we had in total for this RP event 25 player or so. where we jumped off the alliance airship in icecorwn or where it was into the hostile village. I jumped first together whit 2 other enginners (we used the parachute to slow the fall down) when we got down we ran to a specific place cleared out of a few mobs and poped a smoke flare (enginner item) and waited unill the rest of the group came down whit slowfall or there own parachute, I dont remember why we was going there just that I and another was doing literal pointless Pathfinder work just for RP. then okey it was partly blizzard effort. and that was for the launch of wrath whit the undead army that poped up everywhere. where I for some reason was on my own in auberdine when it got attacked and I remember no one saw it coming and the caous that ensured as I tried to rally the defense of auberdinne, while trying to get any reinforcement from my guild to come and help (they did after a long time because they had none to give as everyone was also under attack).

[@Xanman64-p6q]

Competition with other players is not always a pillar, though if you expand that to competition in general (including player vs environment) then it is.

[@emarskineel]

The world and feeling you exist in it. That is it.

[@sknfolk3488]

That WoW soundtrack snippet literally sent chills down my spine

[@TheViper277]

You are the not the hero we deserve, but you are the hero we need...

[@RealSkaarj]

Completely signed. Ultima Online had a boring combat system, but was one of the best mmorpgs i've ever played. (besides DAoC and WoW until the end of WotLK) Black Desert had the potential to be the best mmorpg of the current time, but digged very early his own grave with the pay 2 win monetization.

[@thelatestartosrs]

1. exploration/discovery/immersion 2. player progression vs monster progression through the "expected" path (it should feel natural for the player when he is ready to move on) 3. trade/messaging system being a part of the game, in runescape playing with your chat disabled would be fucking stupid because there's useful game messages there, you could disable the public chat but you would probably rather keep it on 4. multiplayer content vs singleplayer content balance, also expect some content to be done by some players solo and others in groups

[@ludvignilsson4365]

I played both the original Star Wars Galaxies(pre-update) and World of Warcraft at launch and I will always remember thinking that the SWG was the better MMORPG, closely followed by WOW. However, I ended up in Azeroth because of peer pressure. The reason I loved both, was the rich and immersive settings the game took place in. I am both a warcraft nerd and a star wars nerd, so a chance to dive into these realms was a dream come true. To be an insignificant smuggler or footman and take a stroll into a cantina or ride a horse through Ashenvale, a feeling that can't be described to people who didnt get to experience these things. To be insignificant is not a bad thing, it's essential in my opinion to create a sense of scale in a game. Something Blizzard forgot somewhere around the end of Wrath. Both of these games had exactly the fundamentals you're talking about in this video. And it's a great video, I'm very fond of the way you returned to your "old" narration style in this one. Keep up the brilliant work, cheers!

[@JonathonTheAsshole]

Because SWG WAS the better MMO and WoW was the fad that went viral after a perfect storm of coincidences in the industry. WoW didn't have fundamentals like SWG did. More like the distillation of fundamentals down to something much more shallow and marketable for people who didn't care about online games, RPGs, or games in general in the first place. If you notice the rot that happened to the MMO genre thanks to WoW has spread to the entire gaming industry.

[@wuzzle6448]

Tips, your recent videos have been fucking killer. Keep going, your editing and writing are phenomenal.

[@realdragon]

I think the big part of MMOs overlooked by studios is RP, both Guild Wars 2 and ESO have megaservers so everybody is thrown into mix with people just wanna run around questing and grinding making it much harder to find like-minded people

[@jimx45]

Classic WoW didn't have the customization part down as much but that in itself created a whole different principal. Each class was highly specialized, each class could do things other classes couldn't do, as a result this fostered strong cooperation, community and competition. If you were a warrior you would cmpete with other warriors to show you're much better warrior and can't be replaced because any other class couldn't function like a warrior. Certain classes could only do certain things others couldn't do. So kind of LIMITING players in a way actually made them rely on other classes. Also professions you can only have 2 major one smaking yo more dependent on other people with other professions to get the things you need.

[@farshadvaziri9485]

6:57 it really did send the chill down the spine bro :(

[@Izkimar]

One of your best videos yet. You successfully took a messy topic and broke it down into some of it's most simple components.

[@c0mplete]

I think a good MMO should have the design philosophies that resembles real life. Basically how society and how basic human psychology works in general.

[@MikeTheBurnerTurner]

Interesting point, I definitely see value to this. However, I also think many people want to escape to a world that holds different values. In modern society people seem to focus too heavily on their "values" like sucess (progression) and family (a sub community). In a lot of worlds people put a lot more value on helping people. I feel people are far more likely to help someone online than help someone who's lost irl. Or give currency to a beger than give cash to the homeless. Just food for thought that might they shouldnt base them on how society or what we think is basically human psychology works

[@EL12111]

Video games are focusing more on epic graphic like movies, They forgot what makes a good game.

[@blackbladez6446]

im working on a mmo my self tbh watching this video helps me out alot, im specially making it a rpg, thx for putting this out

[@bluecoconut9543]

I’m still waiting for someone to make a vr mmorpg Edit: what I find to be what makes a mmorpg good at the beginning is just do what ever you want and ignore the NPCs who greet you in game that take you to go on a quest for 7 hours and then you finally go back to we’re you spawned

[@ADeadlierSnake]

Great video. I'm also glad you mentioned OSRS. That game gets a lot of shit for the graphics, but it is going gangbusters right now. It has such a strong community, an immersive world, and all-in-all is a fantastic game that shares so much of the same elements that make vanilla WoW great.

[@koalaivica]

Welcome to Asmongold's Stream Content.

[@spikmin]

Can't forget story when it comes to RPGs. Something not so easily emphasized in an MMO, but key to the foundation of the genres regardless.

[@vi9126]

Lineage II was a very good mmorpg that with more advertising on the west would have been perfect(Until interlude), it was stupidly hard, players make their own factions which results in feeling inside the game. -You could even kill your own allies or any person just by clicking ctrl+attack...something I miss a lot from the new ones th -Clans could rule a city and own a castle and others could siege it in two weeks -There was a competition on which the best player on his profession becomes a hero and gains a lot of OP things for a month(including a super sayan like aura that could freak any single player on the server). -After lv75 you could use a second class apart, basically you could be a main tank and change to other profession, even professions of other races, such as warcryer(orc) being human, you could only be 1 profession at time, no stacking of skills or stats from main. This makes the endgame even longer and more funny... But honestly I would have love it even more if lore was expanded as wow did, in the end the f2p and micropayments have killed so many games lately, including lineage II, I hope that soon any studio really makes a game that looks for the health of their servers and the wellness of the players, instead of making a bubble of sales that in no time becomes a boring, repetitive and bad endgame...thing is, wouldn't mind paying 15€ month for a thing like that, without in game buffs on the store other than skins and aesthetic crap.

[@OPTactics]

Surprised this video doesn't have more views. Very well done

[@remyd8767]

For me, it's really just two things: immersion and community. If the game gets these two things right, most everything will fall into place. Btw, I'm glad that you finally got footage of Pantheon here. I'll play Classic, but Pantheon is my end game

[@vXCozmoz]

Videos like this have already been posted and explained, but you do say some good stuff as well and since I DO like your vidz (did give you my first -1 in your last vid) along with yourself, the time and effort you put in to make them earned you another +1 from me. Allow me then as a 40yo "oldschool" gamer with 7 mmo's under his belt (but prefer have both feet on the ground!) to tell my tale. For me personally. What makes MMO's good is systems/immersion that promotes people to: # group up together where you need to meet and TALK to other people (classic) not just press a button or don't need to care or do anything for it # get that upgraded feeling when you clear something (progression) # harder gameplay (hard means game last longer and more challenging) # the music and it's atmosphere (which must fit where you are in the world and change as you go) # lore or background for the game (if there is any) something people can relate with # have a meaning for what you are doing for more people then yourself # making choices that really matters (talents points and such) and customization What I am trying to say here, coming from the Dark Age of Camelot era (2001) where you had all of this and Classic (vanilla). Did not play the other mmo's until Lineage 2 and WoW (2004) though. So no Runescape and EverQuest etc. In Daoc as one example, what you did was not only for you alone but it helped the entire realm (side) that were in there. Promoted both a strong WILL and NEED to group up and socalize. You are spot on my good friend Tips when you say todays games focus more on some flashy gfx, fast paced gameplay and micro transactions and way too much! Daoc's gameplay was by todays standard very slow and stiff and still after more then a decade it's talked about for having the best pvp system yet in an mmo. I for one am SO TIRED of most of todays mmo's (and som other genres too imho) where it's usually this "game for all" bs when in reality the majority has to bend to a minority. Sure there has to be some fast paced games as some like that but that means there should be other kinds as well, that we who love Classic, like. Swtor is a very good example. I've played it before it became free2play and I only play it nowdays for the story progression on and off. If it would not have the "star wars" it would not be here I think. It's basicly a singleplayer game with microtransactions (cartel market). To end my book here I will again say that what I am tired of is this easy mode, face rolling, silver plattern, handholding type of gameplay (cough, most of wow's expansions QoL bs except TBC, as one example). So when I first heared of Classic coming, something I did not think would happen after so long, I went...I stop there =) Good gfx is nice but just like Runescape, don't need to be "4k" flashy gameplay to make a game good.

[@Zordiak]

This is such a simple take. The difficulty is getting these things to manifest themselves not recognizing what they are. Take for example, community. How do you build a community? Just make a chat window and guild mechanic? No. Communities start with communication of players via their individual needs. You want players to depend on each other. But it's not enough to just depend on each other. LFR shows us this. You must have enough difficulty for players to have to communicate with each other. AND have it be in their benefit to play with the same group week after week (to help get everyone that chase item). This is how you build friendships. Friendships in games create a sticky network of players and clusters of players (i.e. friend groups) those then make up bigger clusters (guilds) and those make up the community. Each level is important and if friendships aren't developing then there's no way you can build a community. You can't just say "Here's the six things" and expect that to be enough. This is something that merits a book on the subject.

[@raversfantasykb6304]

For me, a good MMORPG is this: To have a game that keeps to it's lore or story immersing a community which follows up with ideas of their own to make the game itself more widely diverse. With an active community that shares ideas for your stories and lore, makes it easier as a developer to create and run a whole new line of mystery and sense of progression for the players, this will allow not only a great way to spark a fan base, but will also allow your players to offer this experience to people who have played similar of haven't played such games before. Not only that, but with also a good progression can bring about a wide range of abilities which progress not just the class but perhaps also a given role for that person's given story, as you give a game more abilities to progress through, you offer competition with buffs and nerfs of set powers to allow for another set of fans to come about and bring their own fan base. Most MMORPGs today sadly don't even keep to the idea that the community they have is important, they are a source of good ideas and also fan based potential for your game, MMORPGs that are fantasy based like World of Warcraft have NO limit with regards to creation, your imagination can spread out as wide as creating as near over 1000s of races and progressive sets, quests and lore characters. If any of you think I missed something then tell me, if you, that means you too Tips, agree with me, then please comment on this and share your opinions on what should truly be a forever living MMORPG be like.

[@jienma8074]

I think every MMO should be 3 things: 1. Competitive 2. Social 3. Fair If one of them is not there, the MMO will die, and that's why most MMOs die, they always neglect at least one of the 3.

[@biohoof537]

Can you link the featured games in your video ? Some of the clips are very interesting, particularly the talent tree at 1:40

[@Zack_Wester]

Im going to add in one more thing to the cooperation/community blocket and thats the Privet Ramirez, Do Everything design flaw. the one player can whit one character do everything in the game. because that devalues interaction whit other player. Take crafting. let say your a leather worker and skinner. this mean that you can make leather gear and skin mods for lether. now many armor gear you can make is stuff like Flame Prof cheast piece. what you need to make it Mob Appropriated skinn, maybe some vendor dye and a bottle of Flame Resistance potion made by an alchemist. I see so many MMO where the player can ether do all trade skill on one character or weary few crafting recepts requires other crafting items. (wow was bad at this back then they had a few) Like for Wrath Enginner could make 2 things that was used in 2 quest and 1 crafting recepy result Engineer on that front was dead.

[@pete9250]

your videos are so well made and so high quality, you honestly deserve more subs!

[@stonechad_squirtle]

tiny detail but, i really like how you said "player killing" when showing runescape and not pvp. keeping with the game terminology

[@Geostyygma]

Honestly I completely agree with all your points you made in this video and that's rare for me. Developer need to 100% focus on making the cake up to par before putting on the proverbial icing and while its unfortunate I do believe that people have not only forgotten these basics but never learned them. Think of all the new MMO's lathering on that proverbial icing but forgetting the basics new players who haven't experienced the proper way would just assume its supposed to be lack luster. Either way The only thing I will say is that while there are really good examples in the past of successful well made MMO's to not get too caught up that fact. They were perfect for their times but that is also the key to making a successful MMO is that they need to be the best you can offer for your time. If not human nature is to seek better results and they will just leave your game for something else. for example at the time Wow's graphics were amazing and nothing came close to it in terms of content open world chat and immersion etc it pretty much led the market in all aspects however that is no longer the standard or case for future developers making MMO's.

[@LoreMaster007]

Nothing you said I can disagree with. I still remember running around Teldrisil doing starter quests as a night elf rogue.

[@Nahojism]

When the wait for Classic gets too hard. I put the soundtrack on and close my eyes.

[@LDTheReal]

I would just like to point out that while progression is very important, it also has be "slow". By slow I'm not saying that you should have to spend weeks to get to the next level, but that 1 level is not gonna make you suddenly 20% stronger. I think this was well balanced in wow up to BC and sort of "OK" in wrath. Where a level 40 player can still kill someone who's 5-6 levels higher with a fairly balanced match up. At some point after cata 1 level would sometimes basicly double your health pool. Also the rate at which you replace your gear in current retail also makes progression "dull".

[@napkinslol7906]

Don't forget Acomplishment. Old mmo's made you work for everything you got. Even the most basic rewards weren't handed to you. Made every piece of gear/spell/weapon you got feel special and more powerful.

[@shutup1037]

They arent handed to you because they can last longer than things from nowadays mmo

[@captain.automatik]

For me the main criteria are: gothic style visuals and ambience, good balance between PVP and PVE content, variety of classes and synergy between them. Nice soundtrack is always a plus. And for me no MMORPG is better than Lineage 2 Classic so far according to there criteria.

[@chaseleblanc2885]

I subbed after this video as well, your topics and point of view is what Blizzard/Activison need to hear to keep this game alive and fresh.

[@xKameHouse]

This is the most helpful thing I've seen this month

[@Ayy.Its.Kruciall]

Great video Tips! I completely agree with your 6 points, and you're also absolutely damn right that Classic embodies every freaking one of them to a T. Nobody could've said it better, great job bro. 💯🤘

[@skar4276]

Greatest video so far my dude! Good job, must have taken a lot of work

[@izadarx]

What a fantastic video. So well thought out and delivered, wow.

[@Aethelhald]

I'm convinced that one of the most important parts of what makes a game good is its music. The music isn't just sound in the background, it's an important part of the overall experience. It sets the tone so much. Westfall in classic WoW with no music: Another zone, old cartoon graphics, annoying harvest golems that keep killing you. Westfall in classic WoW with music: Man, I can really feel how depressed and desperate Westfall is. This place used to be a beautiful farming community, now it's dead and ravaged by criminals and poverty.

[@john-wj4ks]

great video, and i think your 100% on point. I just wish the industry hadnt taken these points and attempted monetize each and every one of them

[@Hiraghm]

I call bullshit. Classic WoW did not embrace the six elements more than did Everquest. The only element it embraced more than EQ was competition. You spoke of "progression".. well WoW has plenty of "progression"... not a lot of challenge. I've played WoW, and maybe, MAYBE 10% of the time I teamed up with other players. WoW, for me, did not lend itself to multiboxing. Even though multiboxing was quite possible with EQ, I seldom had a gameplay session where I didn't at some point team up with other players rather than try to play 2 of my own characters. Not for raids, not for custom dungeons... just for xp. Because it was easier to make more xp in a good group, faster, than to solo... which was _not_ the case for me in WoW. One of the "hobbies" in EQ has always been exploring which group combinations work well for different situations. WoW definitely wins the awards for fashionquest. Eventually I found I didn't care what label or graphic my equipment had; there was so much that it blurred into the same stuff, different graphics. You could definitely customize WoW more than EQ... to the point where it became boring. While WoW has better graphics, I'm not so sure about the immersion, because of the lack of challenge. When my group got wiped out by Chancellor D'Izok, I became determined to go back and get my revenge on him, no matter how long it took. As far as storyline immersion goes, I think Tera has both EQ and WoW beat. They've changed the beginning of the game multiple times now, but when started playing Tera, there was a storyline where you were befriending a little girl... at the end of the storyline, she sacrifices herself, becomes part of a tree, in order to save you. I waited... 50 levels? to kill the sonofabich that made that necessary. He was a leader in the capital, and every time I had to enter his presence I cussed him out and vowed anew my determination to make him one with a porcupine.. even as I was accepting quests from him. It was a very satisfying day the day I killed his ass. Again, like WoW, Tera is too easy to solo in. The absolute worst MMORPG as far as community and cooperation are concerned, is Myst Online: Uru Live Again. Due to the nature of the Myst franchise, most of the "zones" and quests are single-person. There are multiple instances of the main town, making it even more difficult to associate with other players, and when you do, there's almost nothing to do together.

[@Greshah]

i'm very curious to the vanilla launch. If i remember anything about the classic leveling i'm either in all the way or will never make it max level.

[@edmontonlivermoore4935]

For those looking for another game with strong community roots, looks to the smash bros games. It's the only other games besides WoW that I've never been able to put down.

[@rpascon]

Insta like for the CHORONO TRIGGER reference!

[@TheSlip2100]

So this was a classic wow ad?

[@bremwynn9090]

Are you planning to continue the profession and class guides?

[@AbsolutionFB]

Did you really not credit any of the video footage?

[@PhylastDK]

I think a very thick lore is the foundation for any good MMORPG. Wildstar had all of these things, but it always felt....I dunno, fake? Because the lore wasn't fleshed out enough.

[@Pytliczello]

COMMUNITY! Nixxiom is proud.

[@tay590]

Excellent vid, tips!

[@zoddamhai3342]

GREAT video!

[@twistidtimmer]

Damn good stuff.

[@pipebomber04]

INTERCONNECTEDNESS is the most important thing in an mmorpg

[@sczuka]

really solid video, thanks

[@sedoni6059]

YOU sir, should create an MMORPG :-) excellent analytics

[@slayanterallica]

Love osrs and WoW music but my favorite game music is Zelda ocarina of time and majoras mask

[@Based_Chameleon]

But the most important characteristic of any MMORPG and RPG for that matter is... well the roleplay. The difference between a roleplaying game and a non roleplaying game is simple. Let's look at Mario for instance. You are not Mario, you're just controlling Mario. In any given RPG you are not merely the person who controls the PC. You are essentially the PC by identifying with the role of that character. You immerse yourself into the world through the eyes of your character.

[@hibernian87]

Yup. Good video, and as you said, doesnt take a genius to realize this. Lets just hope that WoW goes back to its roots or another MMO adopts these features.

[@janniklaswittmann1667]

Great video, as always! Did you get the chat message I sent you in discord about the islands video? Would love to hear from you! Cheers drokzhar

[@potantirittisak8494]

Thank you for this!

[@bestboy897]

Amazing video very well explained

[@razputin7520]

Agree, but would add a #7 - creative approach to #1-6

[@Tbjbu2]

Awesome video thanks

[@nordy259]

There is no one answer. My personal favorite mmorpg's of all time are about as opposite as two games can be and those are Vanilla Wow and Black Desert I guess the one thing you could say both games do have in common is that if you want to be sucsessful in them it takes effort

[@boredfangerrude8759]

Character levels, Stat upgrades and gear upgrades are common but NOT necessary for AN RPG/MMORPG.

[@zadkiel25199]

Thanks for your amasing content Tips. When can we expect a deep dive for mage? :D

[@dustintischer5363]

Not one mention about Everquest... huh..... perhaps your first MMORPG was WoW... mine was Everquest. so perhaps thats why i view classic everquest with the same esteem as you do WoW. anyways great video.

[@Hiraghm]

Everquest always did better PvE than PVP; the former servers were always more popular. I can see why WoW would favor pvp; it's all show. IMO, if your world is based enough, that is, if it's difficult to accomplish goals and there are consequences for failure, you have less need for PVP. So many MMORPGs have to resort to PVP for entertainment value because w/o PVP, they're basically parallel single-player games. When Verant created EQ, they were determined to make players play _together_ . So there was incentive every day to form groups and work _with_ other players.

[@KanedaSyndrome]

I largely agree, if not 100%.

[@evasion.6096]

When is the beta for classic?

[@Nona-oe9hn]

I have never been immersed in a game before, I still always feel like some dork, smashing my face against a keyboard watching a little pixel character go on a murder hobo rampage and talking to some weirdos with ! and ? above them

[@hotozi]

at 0:32 is that Zelda?

[@bh-0330]

Did you ever play baldur's gate or neverwinter nights Tips?

[@Riful]

No mention of things like EQ,FFXI,FFXIV,LOTOR,UO ect... interesting.

[@LedriTheThane]

I mean, you could name off every MMO ever, but you only need a few to make the point clear. There was a lot more mentioned here than most other videos (where, for some reason, people only mention WoW, Runescape, and ESO, lol).

[@Drothen-]

all these games are trash.

[@MrFace921o]

TRON WoW is heavily inspired by EQ, so no, probably not trash

[@SilkeJuppenlatz]

Actually... you forgot Everquest. Which is STILL going.

[@MapleSyzurp438]

Whats the game shown in the first scene of the video with the cow and the christmas presents ?

[@TipsOutBaby]

runescape 3. not a good mmo imo XD

[@MapleSyzurp438]

@@TipsOutBaby yeahh... Just checked it out, thanks. sad, visuals looked dope!

[@jim5140]

So what's modern wow missing from your list? - I would argue competition. Everything has been made more safe, accessible, easy, streamlined, and Oprah-ish ("you get a car! You get a car! You get a car!")

[@PiknP99]

Love the vid Tip! You have some quality content and I always like seeing a new upload from you. I was watching another streamer on KZbin today, he was streaming P99 Everquest, which I've played for nearly 2 decades! Wasn't familiar with the streamer, or you and his relationship, but it seems you two have some issues. I saw you were whispering him some pretty crude stuff, and he was in turn saying some pretty crude stuff. I think you should just wash your hands with all of that, the language and attitude doesn't seem to be like you, you're a passionate and inspirational person, and I was a bit taken back by how weird that little interaction was. I've been a fan of your channel since your first few vids, and I think you should focus on great content (like this vid!) and ignore that kind of rhetoric. Anyway, cheers mate and thanks for the constant great quality uploads!

[@BrunoMalherbe]

Elwynn soundtrack, how dare you do this to me... I'm not crying, you're crying!

[@TipsOutBaby]

:(

[@Rohirrim009]

I miss the music to wow, it brings Immersion to the game. Cant wait till Classic

[@BrunoMalherbe]

@@Rohirrim009 Well to be fair you can just go back to those zones, I sometimes do that, but it's not the same when you know everybody's on another island grinding azerite... And Westfall and Redridge Mountains are not the same, zones have changed in Cataclysm

[@Rohirrim009]

Yea i no. I quit WOW in wrath of the lich king before Cataclysm came out so for me. Nothing has changed. I played Vanilla to Wrath of the lich king. So when i return to Classic everything will come flooding back :)

[@BrunoMalherbe]

@@Rohirrim009 Ah I see!! I expect it too, even though I still play, it's reaaally not the same, I'm super excited for this summer :)

[@Syzyro]

Excellent video, Tips. I have been somewhat sceptical of you, but realize now that was unfounded, your heart is in the right place. Got my sub

[@karsonpiter1795]

The game is strongly influenced by the community. Lineage in this terms of hardcore

[@karsonpiter1795]

@ Cool, where do you play?

[@karsonpiter1795]

@ Yes, I agree, there is nothing to do on free servers. I'm looking for the server you're playing on right now?:

@@karsonpiter1795 Ah, I didn't understand it :D It's Skelth server, hosted by 4game studio

[@karsonpiter1795]

@ Wow! I'll have a look, I suggested a friend of his, if I am not mistaken there is 7 days free

[@captain.automatik]

@Alex Lawrence Skelth is the best if you're into Lineage 2 Classic and looking for smooth gameplay and no tricky payments.

[@Fropxy]

What is the game on 2:52-3:02?

[@poisonated7467]

I agree with the video. However, I think you missed one thing and it's a very easy thing to miss even thought once you see it, it's blatantly obvious. That one thing is: information/knowledge. The amount of information the player knows before and during gameplay about the entire game. To compare it to a book or movie it's like someone telling you spoilers to a book or movie before reading/watching it. I also say during gameplay because movies/books are boring if you dont give enough information while you read/watch. This is something the gaming community and industry have gotten wrong so badly. People watch/read reviews, articles, streamers, development blogs/journals, release videos, information about the game on their website, etc before the game is even out or in the worst case scenario in alpha/beta. It's crazy. Although, it's not an easy fix as, "well stop telling people stuff!". Especially when there are TONS of garbage games out there and you have to wade your way through them because garbage games are easy to make. The problem also arises when there are so many smaller teams that NEED to be crowdfunded and there really isnt another way to get that except showing the development process and giving the player/"investor?" a say in some things. A real catch 22. How much did you know about the games you got when you first got them? Most likely literally nothing especially in the old days when there really wasnt a way to in the first place. Back then you really didnt need to worry about whether a game was good or not you could just pick one up and hey its pretty good. A very good example of a game that does this today is Dark Souls. Gave almost no information to the player before launch, launch, or even after launch in game. Massive success. Now, imagine Dark Souls if you already knew some of the lore which is tied into the bosses so you know some of the bosses and kinda where they dwelled. There are no surprises there, it's boring. Its like a spoiler in a book or movie.

[@aleksisliekna6688]

I would add CHALLANGE to the list. Think The Family Crypt quest in classic wow

[@Jstandshere]

I'm under the impression right now, that the largest hurtle for Classic to be successful, will be the community. There are so many examples of people in retail right now that have adopted the anonymity as a way of life in gaming, with no repercussions for exceptionally lazy gameplay, and exceedingly toxic behavior. Retail allows that to happen with its basic design philosophy we all know too well. I don't believe that outside of the core players that know how this impacts the community (and therefore don't act like this), that the modern gaming crowd will be able to function in an environment such as Classic. And it goes beyond retail WoW. FPS's such as CoD(and others I'm sure you can all look at), have all fostered the anonymous asshole mentality that has become prevalent in the gaming world. I hope I'm wrong, and only time will tell. The other thing that I believe will cause a lot of the 'current' playerbase (I use that description because there are a ton of people that weren't around 10 yrs ago) will shy away from is the lack of instant gratification in Classic. Modern games cater to the crowd that has no interest in putting in time to achieve goals (gear, rep, what have you). After many realise that it's going to take time to achieve their goals (from just putting in work, such as leveling), many will shy away. Especially when they realize they can progress if they just play, rather than the content being timegated, where they can do some minimal effort stuff knowing next week they can just do a Warfront quest and get a piece of high ilvl gear. So really, are modern players prepared for playing a game like Classic, or am I being too cynical, based on behavior we've all witnessed and know exists?

[@PantzJr]

how do you feel about AOC tips its made me feel excited yet bored of the promises !?