What Makes A Good MMORPG?

[@TheLazyPeon]

Would love to see other MMO content creators take the format of this video and make their own versions, would love to see a video like this from Fevir, TheHiveLeader, Cryy and Nerdslayer :)

[@sidneymendoza3153]

TheLazyPeon yo dude you should check out REMNANT FROM ASHES the game is amazing and I think you like covering it

[@koffinkat666]

Short answer......If it feels like a Heroin addiction and starts fucking with your life and Responsibilities/Relationships THEN and only then you know it's good.

[@alexanderhigbee7446]

Is there a mmorpg that captures being in debt and disiked by a significant portion of the community?

[@vaughnbellwood4605]

Here here!

[@Kurenai_TV]

Check out Cryy as well

[@dreammfyre]

It's immersion. The sense of transporting yourself to another living, breathing world and taking part of it. That's why it's so damn sad how MMOs these day have more and more turned into hub-games, where the world and server you're on means almost nothing, and you're literally a button click away from every dungeon and city in the game. Not to mention all the ridiculous looking store mounts and costumes, and that big-ass cash shop icon flashing every time you log in. The immersion is gone and it's such a damn shame, because to me that's the absolute core part of the genre.

[@YezzyHD]

I cant agree with you more, a big part of immersion comes from human interaction because you feel that you are there with the other people. People look towards wow classic mainly because people mean something. People need other people , you can feel how people are dependant on eachother. And cash shops bring the real world into the game and that truly is a shame.

[@Hexrun]

so true

[@Nkodtb]

Big facts.

[@michaelstibbe5640]

Im not a big fan of mmo's since i usually play solo. Wow however, did turn out to be a good solo experience and had me co-op every now and again to get me a little bit further. Never did i feel there was an obligation to team up with people. It was always a choice... Imo thats what makes a good mmo. Freedom in doing whatever you like.

[@jediwarlock1]

Exactly, and immersive soundtracks and sound effects

[@fiverolltacos]

The saddest part about mmo’s nowadays is that I’m finally old enough to afford one and they all suck

[@FISTBANGER1010]

Well If U got the moneys U should play BlackDesert :) best MMO ever , but Hardcore pay to win ,needa bout 300€ per month to stay relevant

[@italogoncalves4538]

@@FISTBANGER1010 bdo isnt that great, u grind all day or lifeskill all day to get in to, pvp get cc'd once and die lmao

[@FISTBANGER1010]

Well i Loved to do all of that , and the graphics Just blew my mind , but when they got the meltable custumes i dumped Like 700 € 1 day to get ted dande cestus and kutum , some days after i quit ....

[@BoardWalkToke]

@@FISTBANGER1010 For an extreme casual it's an okay game. Aside from that it asks for too much from the player and gives so little back in the end with shit content. Their cash shop is also disgusting.

[@awildmoose6541]

@@FISTBANGER1010 why would you ever use that much money on a single game you actually need to seek help. This is not normal.

[@MrMousiee]

I'd say that the rpg elements of mmorpgs are what make them great and a lot of these aspects have been lost from the mmo genre over the years.

[@faramund9865]

Yup developers seem to think that the RPG element in MMOs can just be the same as in a single-player game where you simply follow quests. But that actually ruins the roleplaying aspect since it’s NOT a single-player game but a multi-player one.

[@ivansalamon7028]

"rpg elements" is such a non statement tbh

[@Nayrock]

This video needs to be shared to every mmo developer and mmo player. Preach Peon!! Your wants are exactly the same as mine in an MMO

[@twiceenjoyer]

YES

[@c137studios2]

@Bruno Wrier then why dont u recommend it fck stop doing nothing

[@krishivagarwal5189]

@@c137studios2 hey hey, I'm a person who's thinking about investing/funding a game studio. I really want to incorporate this stuff, but it only makes sense to do it if you can do it fluidly and successfully. I also want to fix the 'aim too high and never actually finish the project' thing. But in order to do this, I need to consult designers, programmers and fellow investors and entrepreneurs to see even if all of this is viable. I'm trying though, and I've made a lot of notes from this guy's reviews on games and what he looks for. I hope I can create a game that the mmorpg community can accept, love and enjoy. You guys have been disappointed far too many times, and the business practices of most of these developers are outright stupid.

[@AKARazorback]

This is probably your best video, and I've been watching your content for YEARS now. One thing I think you forgot to mention is 1) Class interdependancy as a requirement (to improve social interaction and thereby story building), and 2) No "egg-timer" mechanics.

[@TheLazyPeon]

That's a good one, I think classes having unique toolkits and not being able to do everything is really important

[@riccardoguidolin6085]

Hello, sorry what is a egg-timer mechanic?

[@trippy5519]

Guild Wars 2 would probably be my perfect MMO if it had dedicated DPS, tank and healer. Every class is basically DPS and it feels like a spam fest with no coordination

[@Valeria-th3ms]

That Dion music brought tears of nostalgia to my eyes

[@andrasylvan9915]

I was gonna comment the same thing. Such gorgeous music that game has

[@jannelu5]

yeah man ... sad games are not the same anymore

[@fcmboopi11]

It's just amazing how deep this hits us, the old school L2 players. Nostalgia is a strange thing, indeed. What a game Lineage 2 was, a legendary one!

[@jaredwadley6214]

I haven't enjoyed a game like I had since Lineage 2.

[@Valeria-th3ms]

@@jaredwadley6214 same!!! Either its the industry nowadays, or I became too old, or both ..

[@RussNZ]

Class variety is hugely important for me. Different ways to build the same class but focused in specific areas. I've just started FFXIV and one big thing that puts me off is knowing that I'll have the same skills as every other player at the end of the game for that job.

[@lunattyyk]

That lineage 2 background music brings memories

[@desertstorm97]

yeah, it hit me right in the feels :(

[@ratus]

Never thought I'd get this emotional to a music :

[@djshade69]

Dion town theme "The Shephard's flute" Bill Brown your welcome :D

[@gaboralfoldi9845]

Yep... :')

[@falricproudmoore5119]

not being pay 2 win

[@tungming5749]

life is pay 2 win get over it.

[@xraysteamlord]

@@tungming5749 Games are games, irl is irl. Why should that affect the game, should we not have any fantasy games because its not accurate to irl? Such a stupid and pointless comment.

[@ABSOLUTchl]

@Charzey Please explain me how WoW and FFXIV are p2w :D

[@vsear5911]

@@ABSOLUTchl wow tokens

[@omarsameh5007]

@@ABSOLUTchl yup wow token is BS

[@zk760]

That l2 music,omg i miss those days so much :(

[@djshade69]

Dion town theme "The Shephard's flute" Bill Brown your welcome :D

[@Crimpson2003]

One of the big things that hits me in any RPG including MMO's is the music. Music can place a certain tone for mood of what is going on or what kind of zone you are in. FF14 has hands down the best music in any MMO followed by WoW's music.

[@nd5Ip3p0Mu]

I still find OSRS' score the most memorable. I think that's because it's the first MMO that I enjoyed, though. FF14 has an amazing soundtrack c:

[@VS666]

i would put WoW's music well above FF but i agree FF has amazing music

[@ShyndrythsConcepts]

Shadowbringers was hella good

[@peterlopez2388]

Best mmo imo.

[@patheticbadger3478]

pfff nah, What makes you think the highest rated MMO expansion is good lol.

[@Ciggiesaftersex]

Ffxiv is trash imo

[@peterlopez2388]

Most people who really haven't played it think that lol.

[@oofmcdoof198]

My problem with ff is the gameplay. It just feels weird and clunky to me. But I played wow for 10 years so maybe I’m just biased against anything that isn’t just like wow handling. Lol

[@marcuselias4412]

In 2004, WoW was easy mode compared to other MMOs. Now, Classic is "difficult", "time-consuming" and "may not be for everyone". This is why MMOs are dying. Difficulty and a living world creates interactions. Crafting, elite quests and class imbalance all encourage cooperation. You must ask for help at some point if you want to experience the majority of the game. Game scaling also keeps the game moderately difficult. "It's breaking muh immersion!" is a legitimate complaint. We don't want to see cash shops, or advertisements, meta-gaming, cosmetic changes, phase switching, or anything else that tells us "this is a product". We want to experience a world. Which brings me to... The story is not important or interesting. The more they spoon-feed me, the less interested I am and the replay value plummets. Leaving tid-bits of lore and an overarching story while I'm experiencing the actual world, make me much more interested in things. Always leave some things unexplained, minimalism is interesting. Let people create their own story, some people don't want to be a hero. Create memorable zones and characters but focus on the world first. Allow people to do what they want but let them come to the conclusion that social interaction makes the game better. Keep all content 'current' so there's always a reason to be in lower level zones (plus the social interaction of higher level players and giving newbies a goal to look forward to). Also, the less furry or loli shit, the better. That's why the game is interesting to me, 15 years later.

[@awildmoose6541]

Wow its like peoples tastes change over time

[@marcuselias4412]

A Wild Moose wow it’s almost like that’s 100% wrong lol

[@GmanGavin1]

@@marcuselias4412 When I was younger I hated onions and now I love them. When I was younger I liked console gaming, now I couldn't care less.

[@WSPBane]

A part of me wonders if the next great immersive AAA MMO will come when VR can handle it. A fully immersive world that gives back that feeling like the first time we played WoW or EQ in the mid 00s.

[@setsuro000]

I mean you can play Classic WoW. And coming from a Vanilla player. Classic was a shit storm to level in. No one wants a game to be balanced like Classic WoW, it was awful but fun. In comparison to everything else now, it shows how obsolete it was. If anything play the upgraded version that came out where they fixed most of the trash that made it bad.

[@illusionlb]

@@setsuro000 everybody is having is fun playing wow classic and i'm stuggling to get any enjoyment out of it.

[@James11111]

A fully immersive VR MMO? *Crossing Field intensifies*

[@CroatianInferno]

I love this mmorpg discussion video, make sure to make more of them! I totally agree with you and I also love it when mmorpgs have warring factions like in WoW, makes me feel like I have a reason to get stronger..

[@RealTaIk]

Sometimes I wish I could make games myself. I would basically pick everything I liked in an mmorpg I played before to make a super mmorpg :D

[@r17v1]

if u could make games ur self u would not do it.

[@fatalos6855]

@@r17v1 Oh is that a challenge ? Amma learn coding.

[@remulaevergaze5342]

For player housing, I think a best of both worlds approach would be to have unlimited instanced housing, but the instanced housing would be smaller apartment-feeling homes, while for those that really strive they can obtain larger fancier in-world housing.

[@boredfangerrude]

Good idea!

[@kellygreen68]

To this day I miss the way Ultima Online allowed you to just live your best virtual life. Wanna be a tamer? Cool. A thief? Rock on. A treasure hunter? You do you. Unfortunately, imho, WoW really shifted the gears for MMOs to become cash cows, and indie companies (the only companies seemingly interested in breaking the mold) can't hold up against the mindless drive for beautiful yet dull reanimations of previous games.

[@NotPsycho]

Gotta say, I've followed you channel for years now and so I've tried all of the featured MMOs in your video. Still, to this day, I have the best memories and the felt the strongest about ArcheAge, it did everything you mentioned right. The sense of community was so intense cause of the cross-faction ability to talk, and the economy system being totally involved in the PVP side of things. It really just brought it all together. You knew sooo many people on the server, regardless of their faction. The two main factions could also share a faction ~ being Pirates and outlawed by the 2 other factions. You could kill your own faction and by time it would put you on a trial, where you'd be judged by other players from your faction and put in jail to spent a certain amount of time depending on their judgement. You could see the jurors when you were being judged, and if they knew you, they could be too scared to give you the right sentence in fear that they'd get raided, which added soo much sense of reality and community to it all. The PVP vs PVE was HUGE in Archeage, just starting off with the Abyssal event and Kraken. Every faction on the server would come fight each other on massive ships, trying to gain control of the perimeter to complete the PVE Kraken and take the loot for their faction. In my guild, we'd also kill our own faction that just came to freeload the event and not help out but just come for the loot in the end. Mistmarrow was another huge PVP event, where you would rally your entire faction to fight in a huge open world arena with the enemy faction, which really brought the faction together listening to calls in Teamspeak. Another example of PVP vs PVE was the economic system as a whole, the much valuable place to freighter goods was an Island in the middle of the map. The pirates would camp there so you had to bring protection to go there, they'd also sometimes pirate out in the water waiting for people with their ship radars. Meanwhile you had the other faction who also would try to get the packs there. Then alongside of the insanely good Player Housing system you had guild castles which were hugely profitable for the faction and the guild in mention. Where other guilds would seige it for themselves. The raids and donguen were also good, and no, not good in a design way. Good in the sense that there was always some sort of tactic that you just had to know, and a lot of the time you couldn't complete a certain raid without having the right classes, and therew ere no difficulty levels. They were very buggy some of them, but again, that was part of its charm in my opinion. The combat was mainly tab targetting, but it was super fast paced and you had combos which you had to use in order to get the right effect. In arenas you would lose if you didnt do the right chains of combos and in massive world PVP you would lose if you didnt do the right raid combos. And for cosmetics the coolest ones were some you couldnt buy from the credit store. Unfortunately the game got to be waaay to P2W, every game is sort of P2W, but at a certain point you've just attracted rich dudes from Qatar that literally considers $500 to be pocket change, and out of nowhere he joins the server and goes from 3000 Equipment Points to 6600 and top 1 on the server. And little by little the false promises of Trion and the P2W killed the game. Now people are saying it's the best it's ever been and we should return and stuffs, Trion is gone and so on. I honestly really want to, but that game is everything I want in an MMO and I don't have time to get addicted again lol. Pretty sure noones gonna read this, but damn I feel sooo much for this game so just wanted to say it.

[@mdem5059]

Throughout this whole video I kept thinking of FFXI, best MMO I've ever played.

[@victorl5402]

Oof, FFXIV right now for me. Never got into XI, but makes me happy that people had as much fun on there as I'm having on XIV. My all time favorite is Elsword. Where everyone complained about it's P2W, I was a kid who just wanted to have fun. Grinding a lot, and I actually got good at it without paying. Joining guilds and just queueing up for dungeons, I met some great people who were so nice and patient with me. 11/10 would go back to 2010-2015 again.

[@the_subi]

A good hub world with lots of players trading. Modern games don't have it these days but I am in love with setting stalls to sell stuff AFK, I HATE auction houses. A good guild system, and proper class roles like tank and DPS. Also, I like world events that move the whole server as one unit following one objective.

[@liljar.6284]

I don't have any cool war story. But I met the love of my life in Archeage 5 years ago. I'm forever grateful for it💖

[@liljar.6284]

@@odteknology well, it happened. We just clicked, and connected. Neither of us were looking, it just happened 😊💖 I feel really lucky, he's the best guy in the world 😊

[@Shockernor]

Hoping that Pantheon: Rise of the fallen will bring back some of the good EQ1 feelings when it comes out in.... 5 years 🤣🤣

[@summerrose3368]

i'd love to have diablo 2 as a real mmo remake with crafting, housing, character customization and a higher resolution.

[@ClickToPreview]

I'm enjoying Drakensang Online and Path of Exile.

[@Orlyy]

Classic is almost here again. Seriously, if you never played it, try it. Classic will demand a good, strong community from everyone if they want to do anything in the game. Back then, servers felt like a home away from home. Everyone knew eachother, everyone knew what kind of content x person did, and a lot of people forged friendships that still exist to this day, even if neither person is playing. That's how it was for me, none of the people I played with play anymore, but the people I met from 2005-2013 I STILL talk to on a regular basis. They have outlasted high school friends by far. Classic was one of the most personal, humbling experiences I have ever had. This quote sums up classic in a nutshell from an original dev of WoW: "I think there's something to be said for going home again. Which is something we don't get in our lives, on a normal basis. I think that's a special and exceedingly rare thing to be able to do, and I think that wow classic gives those people that opportunity to experience again what home feels like."

[@Fabisala]

I had that experience too, with BC and WOTLK WoW. The exploring and socializing thing just kept me playing obsessively. I'm not that young anymore, but hell I want to live that kind of experience one more time.

[@Orlyy]

@@Fabisala yeah most definitely. I'm 29 now, not getting any younger but I'd enjoy that experience again. It was like that all the way until I quit in cata.

[@Byakko_Izanagi]

ArcheAge just dropped their "big" announcement ArcheAge: Unchained, a b2p version of the game with no apex and such. Bit too late in my opinion :/

[@acetown2263]

"Everyone will have the same amount of Labor regeneration and a cap of 5,000 Labor Points." And I'm instantly not interested... The one thing I wanted them to remove from the game is still there.

[@Byakko_Izanagi]

@@acetown2263 Yeah same. Also the whole ArchePass thing doesn't appeal to me either if I'm honest

[@GeorgeNoX]

​@@acetown2263 TBH labor system can't be removed from AA as it would make everything be too easily obtainable, would be the more time you are able to put into crafting or mining etc the more profit you could make or instantly craft full sets of gear provided you have mats for it. You would be able to make everything you ever wanted in just a few days of playing and at that point there would be no point in doing crafting anymore, or playing for that matter. If you look at MMO's like WoW for instance that have unrestricted crafting you notice that most crafted gear has lost all value and gold doesn't have any value either, this is why they implemented tokens for game time in WoW and very expensive mounts for hundreds of thousands and even millions of gold because they needed a gold sink as gold became meaningless over time. Same would happen to AA if labor was unrestricted

[@Skytez]

@@GeorgeNoX Exactly labor would be hard to balance at this point, what they did is a good choice

[@Argentfan]

@@GeorgeNoX If they don't pull any multi-character BS. This might save archeage long run. It won't be a heavy hitter in the space. That chance is gone, but they can probably hold a niche.

[@13vaidas14]

I have read a few light novels about vr gaming and there is a few things that I could take from it. First would be, randomized and unique drops. Imagine, you found a dungeon and in one of the bookshelf there is was a book that leads you on a one time quest for an awesome loot. And when a another player checks the bookshelf the book is gone for who knows how long. Next time you find a rusty sword near a skeleton, that quest leads you to a hardcore quest that you can't complete because you are too weak. And so on. What it doe's is removes a lot of things that people would basically google their answer for. Second is the feeling like you are a nobody until you can prove yourself. Of course you ca become a hero if you want to be one. Third no premade classes, you get only the basic ones at the start (priest,warrior,mage,ranger etc.) and from that you build your class on your own. You get skill from quests, buy in action houses, boss drops. And with time you can upgrade your class to a better one. Like a priest could become a necromancer, a holy priest, paladin, a curse master and so one. There would be a lot of imbalance, but for some reason nobody in the novels cares about them. Maybe because the where Korean and the mentality there is different. Fourth, support jobs matter, a blacksmith, a cook, an alchemist and all other miscellaneous professions. But there was a thing, you can't be the best in all of them, because they take a lot of time. So it's better to have one dedicated to cooking when a few bad ones. Fifth, world PvP is for everyone and has a bounty system. You PK someone and your name gets redder and redder the more people you kill. If your name is red, other people can kill you with out penalty. The initial one item drop chance is 5% and the more people you kill and redder your name is the more you will lose if you die. And you can't show your face in the cities because guard will may kill you and you will gt a big penalty or put you in jail. That fixed the griefing problem.

[@evangelion4ever]

Whta light novels you have read? some of this ideas are great

[@yawniy]

I feel like when a company plans on making a game, they need to write this checklist and follow it religiously.

[@inigomontoya6968]

You organized my passing thoughts on the genre and presented it beautifully. Ultima Online, Eve and to a lesser extent Vanilla WoW have given me the most memorable moments, the greatest longevity, and ultimately the greatest enjoyment I've had in MMO's for the very reasons you outlined. I still hunger for a MMO that captures my imagination and holds my interest like those did.

[@vidsbyme2590]

I would like to see the difficulty added back into the MMOs. No power leveling to max in a week, risk v reward, consequences of not striving to be better. I don't mind difficulty being time consuming. It just extends the game. I have always had a problem with those who want the best rewards but have not learned their character or understand the game mechanics.

[@TheDracoNite]

Seeing that little clip of Wildstar gameplay braught back so many memories. RIP Wildstar, you had so much potential...

[@lilWhiteEmo]

So old school RuneScape with BDO graphics and combat

[@EvoS76]

“They think we’re all dumb” spot on. Just because devs have gotten stupid doesn’t mean their player base have.

[@martinivanov1319]

yep thats the worst... they are making all games completely idiotproof now. it makes me feel like im some ultra smart ultra high iq person... while in reality the games are just retarded

[@W.M.1]

You forgot the most important thing: Good optimization with little/no lag, bugs or loading screens. Cause none of what you listed matters if you cannot actually experience them :P

[@Valeria-th3ms]

For me, long term goals in an MMORPG are really important, they motivate me to socialize, to dive deeper into the world. I met so many great people in games and made plenty of fun memories

[@DIETAL9]

Correct me if im wrong but I think we socialize more in games that you feel a real challenge when you try to face it alone, involving monsters or other players, but you needed to make alliances like real life

[@xHiyami]

also final fantasy 14 has a quite a bit of that as well, with it's rare spawned hunts, high tier hunts that spawn rarely that you have to find similar to ffxis notorious monsters (still dont know why you didnt mention ff 11 since it is definitely one of the best) you will fight and kill a hunt monster and obtain loot from it which you can use once fought enough to buy some sweet gear or other items) also I dont know how you can have an opinion on FFXIV when you didn't even get to experience everything it had to offer.

[@SaveTheSunF1R3x]

Don't forget about maps! Man those are fuckin sweet to just chill with some friends cracking open some maps for dank loot.

[@xHiyami]

Trueeeeeeeee

[@swinglow6580]

You guys have to understand it would take peon countless hours to reach the “real game” content. He’s basing this on what it’s initial taste is. Ff is a damn good game, but it lacks a large chunk a lot of mmo players love...real pvp. Every mmo I have played the pve players eventually flow over to pvp content as testing your skill vs another human player is a huge rush and ff may have a pvp but let’s be honest here....is it really any good?

[@periwinklekyukia1518]

Final Fantasy 14 player here. I'm not sure why this guy gets so much hate, he had very valid points. Not everybody likes the same thing or same game, that is why there is such a spread of games that offer similar but different things. Great video! I agreed with a lot of the points especially the leveling system.

[@pvcvalley]

2:04 lol wildstar, why are you doing this to me T_T

[@TheBinxaroo]

I cry anytime I think of the game. It shall be missed.

[@xPandamon]

Yeah I loved it. I miss it.

[@Eranta]

yeah underrated, imo AAA mmorpg game... too sad about this game

[@Xialoh]

Really not sure why that game failed. I played it a bit, never got to the raiding, but just visiting player housing and skate parks was extremely fun on its own.

[@xPandamon]

@@Xialoh Player base was to small. Sucks because it was pretty fun

[@DashStorm]

I love your videos LazyPeon, but could you PLEASE caption the name of the game when showing different gameplay scenes!?, there are lot of cool gameplay scenes there but I don't know which game is it! Thanks!

[@mishkarae]

Agreed! I saw some awesome scenes, but I don't know which game they belonged to!

[@DIETAL9]

x2

[@corver2597]

FFXIV is fantastic right now, significantly better than current WoW. ESO is pretty solid as well.

[@SNinjaQK]

ffxiv feels too singleplayer tho

[@corver2597]

@@SNinjaQK quite the opposite. The leveling can feel like a grind, but, the dungeon roulettes help with that. At end game though, it's all about raids with other people.

[@SNinjaQK]

@@corver2597 I hate the multiplayer parts cos the people are usually toxic

[@keithmustanggt]

@@SNinjaQK ffxiv is probably the least toxic mmo community out there

[@SNinjaQK]

@@keithmustanggt yeah I know

[@jong2359]

The thing that makes an MMO good for me is simple: have something that I can be locally good at (5-10 man content,) globally participate in (30-40 man content,) and make the solo activities feed those two previous points (farming, economy, crafting, quest rewards, etc.) You nail those 3 things while making me feel powerful in the world, and you won. So many MMO's these days have balanced the fun right out of their games, so you never experience a unique feeling of power.

[@paullilly9865]

And he is deleting all comments about ff14 lol the thing is we still see the comments just says it’s been deleted by uploaded 😂

[@belstar1128]

ff14 sucks i'm so glad the lazy peon warned me about that game i almost bought it.

[@Strrroke]

belstar so you hate the game even without playing it? Interesting

[@corver2597]

@@belstar1128 sorry you took his review as a legitimate review, you missed out. This coming from someone who has played 8 MMOs including WoW for 11 years, FFXIV is easily top 2 on the market.

[@belstar1128]

@Gene K The mandatory quest lines are a big nono for me nobody else mentioned it.

[@belstar1128]

@Xeno23 It is not hard being number 2 since all mmos made after 2009 suck i have been playing mmos for over 15 years.

[@TheBobwinner]

A few points that made the MMORPG genre great : 1. Difficulty. You need to socialize, make friends, build parties and raids to wreck shit together to win the game. 2. Slow progression, fast paced expanding content. You need to keep the excitement up to stay on the game for years. 3. Secrets and Mysteries. A mmorpg has to have people explore places and dig deep lore.

[@kvast13]

Think the best mmorpg i played over the years is Dark age of Camelot. It had all the elements you discribe and more.

[@killval849]

The best MMORPG and game in general I have ever played is Everquest. On the Project 1999 server. Check it out, it's completely free. No Microtransactions, No Instances, No in-game maps, it's the game that invented DKP, and Raiding in MMORPGs. It truly feels like an open world game of D&D. The time we're in, you need to go back to basics, and in my opinion either Project 1999 Everquest or Classic WoW, and I suppose in some cases OSRS, and it's yet to be seen but Pantheon as well, WILL be the only way forward.

[@TheJjakkal]

I think GW2 has had the best business model so far, personally

[@whisp777]

My favorite MMO's were UO and EQ. So many memories from those two games and stories that I still talk about today. No other MMO's have ever captured my interest and held it for years like those two games did. Great video as always, your perspective on the MMO genre matches mine to a tee! It's great to see old school MMO players are still out there. I would say of all the games coming out Pantheon Rise of the Fallen is the only one I'm really interested in. Hopefully it will see the light of day.

[@blackboard212]

before watching the vid this is my thought in 1 sentence. A grind that makes u feel accomplished. the best mmo's for me are OSRS, WoW (van-mop thoe more so before cata) and funny enough BDO (thoe that may be just coz i enjoy life skilling). the one thing these games all have in common is that u have a goal and u spend time working on it. you dont reach it in one day or even a week. its a journey and you see progression as u go. with osrs u get new ways to train the skills or new items to use. with WoW it was ur gear or leveling and new recipes. With BDO im climbing levels and getting better and better fishing rates and gold/hr which is something i enjoy. so thats my thoughts lets see if lazy is same haha ;D

[@blackboard212]

C 100% thoe i can live with B like in BDO i dont rly pay attention to the whole u r special shit. i just go fishing all day.

[@toucheJSHAYdynasty]

I wish Runes of Magic wasn't a dead game and wasn't so heavy on pay-to-win. Best MMO. Literally hit all the sweets spots you say here. - Transmogs (I was a goddamn pirate with a hook and a peg leg one day and a tron character the next) - Personal Housing - Holy Trinity - Tab Targeting Combat (albeit, there was a period in time where the boss fights were 1 shot, due to lack of players and power creep) - Linear Questing, with A LOT of side quests. - A surprisingly in-depth story. - Stat/Gear Customization. You could literally choose what stats you wanted on gear. - Lots of Addons that can greatly add to the personalization. - Great class designs with dual class system. There were a lot of ways to play the game effectively. You could be multiple types of classes to be a tank/dps/support/healer. Of course some were much better than others, but the variety was there. - A freaking relationship system, such as spouses, lovers, master/apprentice, family, that added actual buffs to your character. - If you were a collector/hoarder, you could go out collecting rare monster cards or farm all types of unique transmogs. - Even Siege, a domination type of PvP, was pretty good if both teams were equally matched and well coordinated. The list goes on and on. I can't praise this game enough. Such a shame it's time has come and gone.

[@SinkroHrvatska]

YEAH PLAYED IT FOR 1.5 Years they wont make mmo like that never and gamforge is crap company thats why it dead

[@lordbachus]

What makes an MMO enjoyable for me : - great stories and lore - fun and challenging combat - great graphics (can be cartoony or realistic) but espescially good annimations - community interaction - diversity of comtent - exploration rewarded - character customisation that goes deeper then choosing skills and armor - and there it is, trinnity for group based content works better, and there needs to be healers..

[@SNinjaQK]

basically a fusion between ffxiv and bdo

[@Cuestrupaster]

I remember AQW, You're the most chosen one possible, and still, the story is so awesome, they did it very well, still my favorite story ever from a MMORPG...

[@glizzywrangler774]

I will tell you what makes a good MMORPG. All the features that FFXIV has.

[@selytime1927]

yeah with 2.5 second global cooldown no thanks .

[@kurisu1204]

- actually being able to customize your char the way you wanna play - pvp - reason to interact with the world outside of instances FF has nothing of those things

[@Esdrei2011]

@@kurisu1204 oh im sorry i thought you were talking about wow for a second there, cause their world content is SO much fun. FF has fates for relic weapons, hunts, treasure maps that may spawn a dungeon with even more rewards that you got in the overworld. an in depth housing system. Beast tribes that reward with them armor, minions and mounts to their race. yeah FF has no open world content. just instances

[@kurisu1204]

@@Esdrei2011 misc stuff with no loot that gives you sht except unnecesary minions and rolls and glitter never played wow, so idk

[@biglogan6142]

Deep world building. Immersion, connection, role play, community ... I think all these things are actually dependent first and foremost on a well thought out, deep, "living breathing" world. Part of what made the great MMO's of the past couple decades so great, was that they were built on a super strong foundation of great world-building. You weren't just playing "an RPG" ... you went into the game already having a sense of the world, or the world was clearly larger than just your role in it. You could go someplace you'd never been before but have a sense of what to expect or a sense of belonging because you had heard of it, or knew what to expect, or you could just TELL what was going on because you understood the world as a whole. More than any other game (even the great single player RPGs), truly well thought out and deep world building is vital to the quality, feel, and immersion into an MMORPG.

[@troygoom2251]

Major browny points for the Outward track😎

[@Medo25199]

It really warmed my heart...so beautiful

[@troygoom2251]

Medo25199 ikr 😊

[@Jarhoul]

Nice Vid Peon. Some great points mentioned. My Prefs: Sub based (no micro transactions), Open world sandbox type with questing but plenty to see and do in different areas (I prefer the journey to the destination although end game content also needs to be there), Leveling needs to be difficult enough so that you don't hit max level in a few weeks (again the journey). The holy trinity or variation of such (This crap of everyone being able to do everything just kills it for me), Crafting needs to be meaningful (You make it, it's useful to you or others), Buffs / de-buffs and abilities make a difference to you and others (HP buffs, Movement buffs, Cure whatever create interaction), No flying mounts (I was initially torn on this but I prefer to hoof it around on foot or a mount or catch public transport as it makes the world so much bigger and more intimate).

[@zexsin2117]

GOOD MMO RUNESCAPE Remember when I made a lv 30 archer and joined a f2p clan and the war in the wild was amazing atleast a 100 vs 100 battle the low lv war was the best of my memories

[@KaneUniverse]

I'm surprised how subtle and acurate your vision of a good MMO is and matches with what I feel and enjoy as a big fan of MMOs myself. I recently discovered your channel and I'm grateful such quality content exists focused on MMOs. It's like realising I was not alone all those years feeling like I do about multiplayer games. thank you for that, I'm eager to discover more of your content.

[@winJ3489]

Ultima Online was so damn fun back in the day.

[@daech8502]

I think why wow is so popular is because of the background lore that it has from the old warcraft games, and that you can see heroes like sylvanas from wc3 and also NPCs that you recognize from the old games aswell.. so you basically have your own story while playing among infamous characters.

[@dabbie2700]

wow is so popular because its good too, not only the story, there are people who don't even know the story and they still play. There are people who don't even do pve or pvp, just collect the thousands of pets, mounts and transmogs or achievement hunting.

[@baska-]

*ArchAge BETA was the best time of my life in an MMORPG.* *Hopefully Classic WoW will match AA BETA.*

[@bzk7960]

Look up AA Unchained.

[@baska-]

@@bzk7960 *by Gamigo? No, thanks.*

[@italogoncalves4538]

but gamigo did a way better job than trion lol

[@baska-]

@@italogoncalves4538 *saying that Gamigo did a better job than Trion is like saying you got punched in the face instead of elbowed.*

[@davep5788]

EQ was my first and longest lasting MMO. That first step into the dunes from Freeport (followed quickly by death), the naked run from Qeynos to Freeport (or vice versa), 72 hour dragon camps (with a call at 3am to kill the dang thing), and dungeon wipes with rogue corpse pulling (that was made easier later). Nothing since has had the same feeling of adventure and real fear.

[@TiFicate]

That Lineage2 music at ~3:30 So nostalgic ;)

[@djshade69]

Dion town theme "The Shephard's flute" Bill Brown your welcome :D

[@TheNathanNAPALM]

Making lasting memories and friendships. I think this is done through Challenge. Depth. Impact. Much of what you said achieves this, especially the bit about sandbox with structure. This is what I am hoping we get with Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, which I caught some clips of in the video! Thanks for a great watch!!

[@Icenflamesrush]

Osrs squad where ya at?

[@Chrisocalypse]

Icenflamesrush 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[@afondi5934]

Right here

[@gima123123]

Wow, I didn't even notice music in the background until.. 3:30. God, I know this so well! Dion soundtrack (lineage2). So many memmories :) Giving you all the thumbs ups just for that!

[@DovidStern]

This guy's got his finger on the pulse. Right on.

[@epicureanmaster]

Preach! I especially agree with the open world/everyday adventurer and risk/reward points, i always try to play my character as common soldier dispatched on peacekeeping duties. It lets me feel like more of a small piece in a bigger world, and i abhor fast travel, walking or using land mounts whenever possible, just to immerse myself in the world more. When you're the chosen one, the world becomes so much smaller when you're not only expected, but required, and engaging in the more lighthearted, mundane, or fun quests start to feel tangential and ridiculous when you're supposed to be saving the world, which breaks the immersion. And then when you encounter and higher level/more powerful player character, what does that say about you and the story? Again, immersion breaking. Difficulty also plays into this, if the world is not difficult to thrice, or even survive in, it cheapens the world. Vanilla WoW and Everquest were pretty close to the mark in this respect, and GW2 had the right idea with zones scaling players stats to fit the zone difficulty, but it's been a while since mmo players has had this feeling. I mean, how many everyday humans can realistically tackle a bear or wolf pack and come out unscathed?

[@Tany90er]

Ragnarok online would also be on catagoryC ... thats why its so awesome

[@jaredwadley6214]

I did enjoy that game tho I only ever played it on private servers a handful of times. Good times tho.

[@jakeberry8882]

I played that game for a very short time but realized i didnt want to grind!

[@visageliquifier3636]

I agree with the quest-hub format of finding adventure. One thing I like is seeing the effects of your progress in the world as well. The best example I recall is the Isle of Quel'Danas in WoW. Another thing I like is mixing and picking talents/abilities and finding unintuitive mixes and effects. I have a lot of fun with this in Rift since you have incredible freedom in selecting talent trees. To a degree I can also do this in Star Trek online since you can optimize the ship, its equipment, your skills, your talents, your officers' races, passives, skills and talents. It is very grindy, but gives you lots of knobs to twiddle, if you care to.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

That leveling difficulty thing is pretty much why I only level via pvp in WoW now, pvp is always a challenging and engaging.

[@tomfoolery1967]

I'm with you 100%. It's why I'm playing Legends of Aria right now and waiting for Pantheon and Star Citizen. There needs to be genuine risk in the world where you do everything you can to avoid death because of the penalty. It makes the world feel more visceral and keeps people awake. Spamming dungeon queues in super easy face-roll difficulty doesn't keep people awake, or engaged.

[@mattpinap]

Love you peon. I can't express how hard you hit the nail on it with this video. DEVELOPERS TAKE NOTES!

[@warothweil673]

I think Wildstar had the best combat system of any mmo. It was acion combat but you had a lot of skills and a big rotation.. The class system was very in-depth

[@pratik8237]

I feel like each MMORPG has particular great features but none of them learn from others and they repeat old mistakes. No one wants to design an mmorpg that takes the best of all features. :\ Im just done with them now. They've plateau in terms of what they can do and offer and feel stagnant. EDIT: Also I've just no more time to invest like I used to when I was a kid.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

The funny thing I find about category A is it is might be kind of the players' fault that WoW moved in that direction. From TBC though MoP people kept complaining like "I am a big shot who has killed Illidan, Arthas and Deathwing, why is my character a nobody doing random quests" and eventually Blizzard probably listened and made us the "Champion", basically acknowledging every raid we had ever done as canon. If players hadn't bitched so much, maybe we could still have been random adventurers.

[@nical9701]

Runescape questing and skills + Black desert combat + Dark souls environment/ world

[@TheHighKingOfSkyrim]

Runescape questing is cancer

[@milkster213]

Darkness of hallovale and mourning ends part 2 almost made me kill myself but aside from those I've always believed runescape quests are amazing

[@techsenseionline4567]

Fevir used to have a great video on how WOW killed the MMO genre and he took it down . Not sure why, but he talks about the first time he walked through StormWind and the music starts it gave him chills. It was a phenomenal experience.

[@kamaaladiin]

Guild Wars2 is the game, this coming from 6 years wow player from 2008-2014

[@eradis9093]

Being an old WoW player I found GW2 great when I tried but knock out system especially in PvP killed it for me.

[@thakrel1650]

A friend got me into playing FFXI ( Not XIV), the older FF MMO, its pretty slow paced and very old school, but it actually has a lot of content and so far has actually been pretty enjoyable for myself over current MMO's

[@xHiyami]

You need to play the oldschool version of it on the server Eden to truly experience how amazing it was though.

[@thegallantrayku2677]

Wasnt shadowbringers the most anticipated mmo of 2019

[@keithmustanggt]

yes but theres a reason he doesnt wanna talk about it... lol

[@TechnicFlow]

Lazy Peon thinks FFXIV is a bad game and got blasted so hard for his review that he deleted the video. Like he said that FFXIV a game literally known for amazing beautiful fights with beautiful animations had boring animations.

[@thegallantrayku2677]

@@TechnicFlow oh im aware i made a snarky comment on twitter about it that got a lot of likes and he blocked me

[@zaeltrus]

Aw finally you include Lineage II and also put it's soundtrack in the video :')

[@djshade69]

Dion town theme "The Shephard's flute" Bill Brown your welcome :D

[@CelestianGC]

"I dislike linear MMOs" followed by "Classic WoW was a sandboxish MMO". I think you're confused what sandbox is or what linear quests/mmos are.

[@Rinohwow]

What are you talking about? A sandbox game is a game which allows the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will and allows the gamer to make decisions on what they want to do in their virtual life. Linear is where you do not have as many or any decisions that will change how your virtual life will end up.

[@djshade69]

3:30 I love that "Dion village theme" from Lineage II aka "The Shepherd's flute" by Bill Brown. Good memories, rip Lineage II.

[@TheJakub345]

pantheon is the only thing worth keeping an eye on

[@rjharris06]

Amen

[@kylee862]

Absolutely spot on =) Community, I feel, is so very much underrated in how it affects the longevity of the game. Most new MMO's haven't gone far enough to support the interactions between the players, building relationships and sharing those stories you spoke of. Any great MMO in the future will try to maximize these key elements.

[@diswazzi1683]

Now we just need some rich nerd to watch this video and make the perfect mmo

[@tonytouch072]

I recently started playing SWOTOR and could not understand why people kept saying it’s a bad mmo but a good rpg. After watching this video I think I understand now. Great vid

[@DoYouWumbo]

I see a video by Craig, I like

[@CrayXable]

I can agree with literally everything you say. I‘m looking forward for new mmos to be guided by your video because it’s just what we expect from a Good mmo. Great content, Props from Germany!

[@aley3159]

DEUTSCHLAND

[@imrippo2775]

How dare you not put wizards 101 in the thumbnail with the greats where it deserves to be.

[@schnee8109]

Wizard 101 how can a game become from f2p literally p2w

[@jersn5560]

I remember back in the day, I played Silk Road Online, the adventure, the grind, the people you meet along the way, its very primitive tab targetting mmo but I have fond memories on that game.

[@007Kiristo]

Honestly, ESO is a fantastic MMO imo. Does everything I want in an MMO. Can play it for free, can sub and not worry about managing your bank/crafting mats. Their hybrid tab target and action system feels great - honestly I like this style the best, theirs and I'm blanking on the name, but some Russian made one Starforge or something has a similar blend of tab target and action combat. True free-form action combat always feels clunky as hell, and true tab target is usually too slow and boring. The level scaling in ESO makes the entire world a viable place to play and thus there tend to be people all over, making the world feel alive. I like the PvP, both the small instanced arenas and Cyrodil. The only thing that keeps me from playing all the time is the one thing that really matters to me an MMO - my friends don't play. I want to play multiplayer games with my real life friends, not online folks that I might become online friends with. As it is, I tend to not play a lot of multiplayer games these days, let alone MMOs, just because most of my friends don't play games often at all or don't play the same ones as I when they do play. It's what I care most about a multiplayer game, and it's why I've stopped really even looking at any new MMOs. ESO would be a perfect fit, and I've still played it a lot without my rl friends, but that's the most important thing and it's why I always stop playing ESO after awhile, not because I've gotten bored of the game.

[@eirik1068]

I am in the same boat. Really wanna play ESO with friends, but none of them want/cant play it when i do. :(

[@takayukiyoshida6727]

I'm still fairly new to mmorpg but I would really love to get into them more especially after watching this video. I had no idea that mmo offers so many different things. And I never thought that each person would probably have their own war story about how they were once in a guild that went to war with another or any of that stuff. Sounds really awesome. I wish I could be apart of something like that.

[@realmadaari]

Guild wars 2 is PERFECT.

[@zesurah]

I really miss the old Allods, it had one of the best systems in place which I didn't see replicated in any other MMO yet: - End game goal of a totally new system, where you get a clan build a ship and explore space and fight the other faction in massive ship battles where you needed to protect your ship while also attacking the enemy ship - Gear negative impact - if you stacked too much of one stat you could've waived the balance of your character, creating a cool risk-reward type of build, where you had a low chance to hit, but you had so much dmg you could instant KO a player if you managed to land a hit - Insane PvP - game insentived you to fight the other faction and to kill mobs in a cetrain area to unlock well balanced gear, creating a mini war where you need to kill NPC's of the enemy faction which flagged you to PvP while the other faction did the same thing, creating a natural power struggle for the area - Insane classes and no level dependancy - Game was all about skill and coordination if you had a good and well balanced group you could even take up a max level player being 15 levels under him, and knock him out, which made every player wary of their surroundings and not pubstomp areas, because when it came to that people grouped up to take revenge on such players - Story - it was preety much about you being a soldier for the faction and fighting the war wherever you gone But of course the greed nation attacked and they had to destroy the game with basically P2W mechanics, increasing healthpools to a point, where when i came back to the game after the devastating patch, 80% of the community left the game leaving a total ghost town of a game, and when i managed to meet a player to do PvP we literally fought for 5 min not being able to lower each other Hp, and after that we just walked out seperate ways not being able to kill each other....Would love to see a legacy server pop up someday to get back into that glorious game.

[@martijnkooiman3282]

Have a good story like ff14

[@Shauma_llama]

Instanced housing: why bother if nobody can see what you did? Non-instanced housing: land speculators buy up all the housing plots, possibly using cheats and exploits to snag them, such as in Archeage. How do you resolve that conundrum? Player housing seems appealing, but how do you make it work? Have a zone where everyone builds their house with infinite land that really doesn't try to fit into the game world?

[@kayvanraamsdonk]

Why are you ignoring the best MMO at this moment, Final fantasy XIV?

[@Bennyy1020]

Because it's not the best mmo at all it's incredibly boring and lacking in many areas it's just catering for noobs while the more tasteful players are waiting for classic

[@rjharris06]

@@Bennyy1020 Lol go play they same game you played before, that will eventually become the shit game it is today. If playing the vanilla version of a game is the best thing about it, your game is dead.

[@corver2597]

Because he didn't actually try the game, for salty about it and then some people from the community said you didn't even play the real game, and now he's anti FFXIV. But you're right, right now it is the best MMO out.

[@corver2597]

@@Bennyy1020 as someone who played actual vanilla when it was content, the classic hype will last about 6 months. Then most will taper off, because they aren't ready for the real grind.

[@Bennyy1020]

@@corver2597 alot of people are gonna be new to it for sure i played 8 months on and off on two different vanilla servers that were private servers during legion and it was the most fun i had for a long time and cos im aussie i had alot of ping and still did very well so im super keen for this classic to do world pvp again and get my warlord back onto my lock

[@reagenlionel]

I'd like to add having player choice and variety in multiple aspects. From how they conduct combat to what interesting things they wish to pursue.