What makes someone gay? Science is trying to get it straight. | Alice Dreger | Big Think

[@bigthink]

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[@DatBoiJG2025]

I do

[@ezrafaulk3076]

I watched this video hoping you might address psychological influence like religions and political groups *shaming* straight men for being straight, and *isolating* them from women, only allowing them to be around other men. It'd be *great* if you could address that, because I honestly think that could be a huge factor too.

[@garthmccrary4019]

Smart enough already to know right from wrong.

[@loribrown7444]

Hi, has blood type incompatibility in LGBT children's family lineages been studied to check for patterns when incompatible bloodlines cross? Especially Rh positive and Rh negative bloodlines, and when the child's blood type doesn't match their Mother's blood type.

[@anthonyenos2835]

I noticed she uses a lot of words that basically made by ACADEMIA,to justify their own narrative to Justify their illiterate PHD indoctrination when they billions of dollar to disprove God's Providence Design.......

[@DoomRulz]

Someone told me my clothes were gay. I said, "I know. They came out of the closet this morning."

[@blindeagleace3629]

HA!

[@powerhouse884]

LMAOO 😂 Nice one

[@robomop9711]

Heh

[@peladomontiel1]

And everyone clapped

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

Badum tish!

[@LeCrenn]

She has an impressive ability to speak about a potentially charged topic without triggering anyone. Very clear analysis presented in a fascinating way. Great job.

[@ShwetabhSenpai]

she's speaking science

[@davidmiranda4745]

triggering the heteros you mean

[@An-oh2py]

Science language, only pope hates that.

[@renderz8435]

Because its science. When you bring religion it makes it problematic because religion has no logic

[@harshabhigyan928]

Yeah, the way she worded certain parts, it could have been kinda offensive if a normal had said that😂. Dodged many bullets haha

[@patrickhodson8715]

I always have a ton of respect for scientists who say “we know very little about why [...] happens”

[@whittakerdanielj]

Yet a whole theory is built off that explanation and generalized findings, and promoted and taught as evidence, and no one is allowed to question it.

[@johndinh1889]

@@whittakerdanielj I agree a big thing about these studies is that they seem to be correlation studies and something I always hear is correlation does not equal causation so why do they use correlated proof as evidence and just accept that sexuality isn't something that they can easily find and discuss.

[@whittakerdanielj]

@@johndinh1889 That is a good question. I have heard that correlation does not imply causation plenty of times. I once read a follow up to that, "There can be no correlation without caution." I found that common sense quite refreshing. Sexuality is quite complicated. Sadly, it is shown as something quite simple.

[@ludmilamaiolini6811]

John Dinh Correlation doesn’t equal causation, but that doesn’t mean it’s useless data. It can lead to better hypothesis to explain an issue, and those hypothesis can lead to higher quality studies. The problem with studying human sexuality is that we are restricted to observational studies with lots of variables we can’t isolate or even identify, so it’s hard to find conclusive evidence

[@theseeker2586]

@@whittakerdanielj How the fuck is no one allowed to question it? It's science. This is literally what you are meant to do, question things ( provided that you have an alternative theory based on evidence ).

[@casanndrabetz2113]

"straight people remain largely a mystery." can i please use this as my senior quote oh my god it's perfect

[@WCKERBAST]

Heheh.

[@Gatozparty]

LOL I WANNA USE IT TOO NOW LOLL

[@malachix780]

Hmm, think it's fairly obvious why some people are straight. It was an odd thing for her to say.

[@mylesleggette7520]

@@malachix780 I do find it fascinating how our modern culture tries to turn being normal into something odd.

[@yoonie7979]

Is it now a problem to be a normal straight human?

[@MAXIMUS-yk5vs]

I wish my mom would call me a genetic advantage

[@antoinebutterfly8555]

I felt that.

[@notyou9272]

Max Allen me 2 lol she sees me as a curse from god.

[@bleaky8885]

@@notyou9272 What the heck that's messed up

[@jjju3]

DAMN homie can we get a F in the chat lmao. Felt that one in my bones.

[@MAXIMUS-yk5vs]

B-atiful! ooF

[@september_dreams]

“Scientists are trying to get this straight” 💀💀💀💀

[@Kai-sg8qc]

They can’t

[@ilovepdub]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 yooooo

[@lokibaum926]

what a terrible pun

[@Gryphondork.]

☠️

[@DannielSmith]

😂😂😂

[@SydneyFabel]

My two takeaways from this are 1) I'm going to be an awesome gay uncle and 2) straight people remain largely a mystery.

[@robinmatz6686]

What else is new?

[@orangeziggy599]

Go for it! Your family needs you.

[@Puffytosser]

Breeders man. Can’t pin them down for nuthin

[@bradsuarez2683]

How so? She did say there is a clear evolutionary bias for being heterosexual thus there isn't a need to do a million and one studies hoping to find and answer to that question. And all the hypothesis she spoke about as to why someone might be gay is questionable at best and down right laughable at worst.

[@bokurowuu]

cishetero people will always confuse me lol

[@pinksky_24]

I remember when I was around ten years old, I noticed I never had crushes on boys, and I was even saddened by the idea of marrying a man when I got older. I didn’t know about queer relationships at this point, until I was around 12. When I saw a lesbian couple for the first time, I can’t even explain the way it made me feel. I just felt immensely happy and almost relieved? Like oh it’s ok to like women as a female. Then I started watching queer media, and It made me feel like I was normal for the way I felt. But then I learned about homophobia… and I decided not to be gay (as though I had a choice), because as a child I was scared. I didn’t accept that I was gay until I turned 18, but I thought about it constantly leading up to my birthday. Once it was my birthday, I decided that I might as well be myself now that I was an adult. I’m 20 now and still in the closet, and it’s very hard to not want to share a side of you out of fear while also feeling trapped and alone. I also am very feminine so I don’t think anyone would believe me if I told them I was a lesbian because I don’t fit the stereotypes…

[@midsummer124]

I understand you totally,cuz I'm in the closet too . Maybe because I'm masculine, my friends don't believe that I might be gay ,so they sometimes make jokes on gay topics ,it kind of anoying me.😭

[@pinksky_24]

@@midsummer124 I'm sorry you have to experience that, I totally have had the same experience before with my straight friends, they say insenstive things sometimes and it bothers me. Just know you are apart of a community that cares about you, and we are here for you, okay? I hope things get better for us one day and we don't have to hear stuff like that

[@midsummer124]

@@pinksky_24 I really appreciate you for saying this and I firmly believe it too. I hope that one day we won't need to come out of the closet because we are homosexual, but rather be universally accepted by the world just like heterosexuals.I wish you all the best.😄

[@studymode-nm6ux]

​@@midsummer124I am so sorry that you guys had a manufacturing defect😢.we actually need to blame natural selection for this.becouse if natural selection work perfectly you guys don't even exist😊

[@studymode-nm6ux]

​@@midsummer124I am really sorry that you guys have a manufacturing defect 🥲.we need to blame natural 😠. because if it works perfectly you guys don't even exist 🤗

[@richardsilva5110]

Would you guys post the cited studies? It's important.

[@Marshmallow_Trees]

I was thinking the same thing. It’s a hot, controversial (still) topic and to flippantly say, “many studies” is a bit frustrating. Surprised the speaker didn’t cite a few studies by name. Very interesting theories.

[@avggamer86]

@@Marshmallow_Trees maybe the reports are apart of private libraries and can't directly cite them without paying. Or not, i really dont know nor would it be an excuse

[@payamsh5519]

Go to sciencedirect and search homosexuality. Whatever she says is pretty much common knowledge and nothing new to anyone who searches the literature from time to time. Most of the articles are not free but you can view the abstract freely. That gives you the gist of it.

[@hotbooinva85]

When you do search for really any peer reviewed paper you can generally simply email the author(s) and request a copy of the study. They are surprisingly more than happy to send it your way for free.

[@richardsilva5110]

It's not for me guys, it's for other people who might not know the tricks

[@JSTama]

As a straight guy who was always linked with being affeminate, both straight and gay stereotypes create very confusing expectatives on people, which makes for a very confusing childhood/teenage years for those who fit the stereotype but not the label.

[@jfish032]

THANK YOU. As a gay man I have observed that literally the only traditionally "feminine" aspect of gay guys, other than their attraction to select men, is their ratio of female to male friends in high school. That's it. Not the voice, not their interests, clothes, hand gestures, ETC.

[@jjbud3124]

@@jfish032 As a child, I had a friend who was very feminine in appearance and behavior . Years later I found out he was gay. I barely knew what gay was as a child. I wonder why some gays are very feminine. Could it be that some are intersex and raised as the wrong sex? I know another gay man who is also very feminine in action but masculine in appearance. I've always wondered how that happens. One thing I do know is that no one chooses how they are born. Personally, I was a tomboy growing up. Played war and cowboys and I didn't like dolls or girl things. I wanted to be a boy, but I was a girl. I still am some many years later, married with children, but I have many male interests. I've never been sexually attracted to other girls or women. Sexual identity can be confusing.

[@jjbud3124]

@@JenSumma It wasn't caused by your mom. You don't cause people to become gay. They just are.

[@Ankku98]

​@@jjbud3124 then me who always liked dolls and princess dresses and yet i like boys and girls 😂 so you're right it has nothing to do with that

[@alexissokal3033]

It also creates alot of bullying and even sex abuse

[@alexisgill1155]

I wrote a 10 page paper for college on homosexuality, and she literally sited every study I did XD

[@orangeziggy599]

Well done! I wish she would provide the citations!

[@cobrakai6209]

Val Gal did you also happen to use the study done by Andrea Camperio-Ciani where he discovered that the female relatives of gay men are more fertile and have more children . He also found out that gay men have more gay male relatives then straight men but only on the mothers side of the family meaning that if there is a gene responsible for turning guys gay that it is probably on the X chromosome. He hypothesize that the genes they modeled may cause people of both sexes to be extremely attracted to men, which would lead men with the genes to pursue relationships with other men, while causing women with the genes to have more sexual partners, and become pregnant slightly more often than an average woman.

[@barbarahouk1983]

Did you study the new Embryology? Do you know about the other chromosomes that affect sexual characteristics besides those on the 23rds?

[@barbarahouk1983]

I suspect it has to do with the methylation process. This selects for which alleles are going to be expressed.

[@letkwu]

Could you send it to me?

[@Christopher51now]

I learned I was gay at 9. I remember exactly when it happened. My friend Donnie and me came back from lunch. I remember watching him go to his seat as I was sitting down i felt the desire to hug him. I just had a overwhelming want to hug him. I thought about it for prob a min and went “I’m a F*G!! Oh no!!! What am I going to do?!?” Then I got a crush on him. We rode the same bus and sat together. And I wanted to hug him on the bus and instead I punched him for making me gay. I didn’t want to hurt him but I didn’t want to let me having a crush on him to come out so I turned on him to keep a distance so my feelings wouldn’t come out. It’s not a choice. If it was I’d have kids. I want a kid so bad but I’m 48 and I don’t have 50k to adopt.

[@_Spider4]

9? Go to hell

[@jmdsservantofgod8405]

Thanks for your story……so it’s natural!

[@timepasstubee]

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

[@VincentNguyen07]

Thanks for sharing your story. I was curious on whether being gay was something you aggressively decide on or it just the tendency of leaning toward other male individuals.

[@wyndiefeatherstone948]

This is such a shame, men are taught that hugging someone is a sign of weakness or homosexuality. It's isn't it is just an emotion that we all share at one time or another. Many women complain that their male mates are not this way with them and they would love to be hugged or kissed unexpectedly. Women's best friends are many times gay men because they like the same things. My ex husband and I got back together one time and we were out driving around and he pulled over and stopped and was saying "Get out, get out of the car!" I thought something was wrong, but he ran around the back of the car, grabbed me up and swung me around laughing, gave me a kiss and we got back in the car and took off. Why? I don't know it was a happy emotion!

[@laricasims124]

Why the focus on gay males? Do the same hypotheses apply to lesbians?

[@Aimia4]

Did miss what she was talking about? The focus was on a piece of research based on homosexual men in Samoa. Research is only useful if you limit the variables, and focus on them. You could say 'why not focus on transgenders too,' or 'why not focus on trans-racial, gender-fluid furries too?' The research isn't politically motivated, it's trying to move science forward.

[@sophia4740]

deepweeb dive ‘most women who identify as lesbian are also attracted to men’ uh, citation please. They’d ID as bi if that were the case. Maybe a small percentage are still unsure, but saying ‘most’ is just incorrect

[@RK-ep8qy]

Twisty The Clown putting aside this video I think it’s because there’s a general outlook or assumption woman are close to each other anyway, more so than most men so the fact men can be intimate in that way intrigues people more. Not saying I’m right, just a theory.

[@ThePhanttasm]

We live in a masculine dominated culture that hates men who act "feminine". When women wear pants or act assertive, men respect them because, "they aren't like other women." But when men cry, or isn't competitive, they are pathetic. Many straight men love the idea of two women kissing, but the idea of two men kissing makes them sick. That's why it's seen as a bigger problem to a majority of people in science. Also, there is no way for a mother to change a female fetus with male hormones, obviously. It's also not that female sexuality isn't just as important to understand nowadays, but there are fewer leads. There aren't a lot of cultures that have gender identities associated with our lesbians, maybe a few native american tribes.

[@bluesmurff6163]

Sexism and stereotypes mostly. Gays have usually gotten more attention because they were though as more "dangerous" by the medical field. They still get the extra attention today it would seen. Also male homosexuality seems to be easier to study, since men usually declare themselve either straight or gay. It's also easier to find gay participant than lesbin ones, don't why though.

[@BastiPROTON]

Interestingly enough, studies show that saying "no homo" reduces odds of being gay by 100%.

[@sliceofbread6929]

and drinking tap water turns people gay m100% of the time

[@adamkimmV]

@@sliceofbread6929 frogs*

[@veritasetaequitas983]

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." -Abraham Lincoln

[@justicewarrior9187]

That's why Californians only drink tap water

[@justicewarrior9187]

@@veritasetaequitas983 Hahahahahahahaha 😂 😂 🤣

[@ClubMayview]

In my family, who ever has the fricking knife carves the turkey.

[@51stcenturygirl]

Well done, you've got a pragmatic family :) OT as not an english native speaker I always wondered why expression is 'carve a turkey' instead 'cutting a turkey'. I mean carving implies to me art of carving it in certain shape or carving some shape in it not cutting it. Just a random thought...

[@coraliemorin7095]

In my family nobody carves the turkey because we do not celebrate thanksgiving lol... yeah..

[@CR-sl8bh]

ClubMayview Thank you.

[@21units]

@3:36 in the Philippines, we carve a fuckin pig lol Also, Poppy seed?

[@solarprogeny6736]

@@51stcenturygirl Carving means digging inside of it. Carving the turkey doesn't mean cutting it, it means digging the insides

[@ronsmith2241]

The fact that I am gay was medically proven during electronic shock therapy. Happy to explain. I am gay and proud of it. A 51 year marriage to my very accepting wife did not change a thing. I am not interested in finding a boyfriend. Too old now. I am 76. It is also true that some of 1500 animal species are gay.

[@xw591]

You can find a boyfriend at that age! It's just a very small pond and men your age tend to want younger partners.

[@mr.nolife7255]

some people argued that our sexuality preference is a choice. To the straights have you tried liking same sex like you choose to like without forcing yourself? Same goes to the gays, have you tried to choose to like your sex counterpart, without forcing yourself? I rather be shunned, ignored or insult by the society rather than staying with someone I force myself to like that eventually ended up you feeling annoyed and burdened. As long as the main pillar of my life (family) accepts me. Because I rather kill myself than seeing my own mom watch me with her unwanting eyes.

[@anuanu-ck9nm]

same. In my girls only school Everyother says lesbians are virus, mental problem, disease etc. And our so called principle says these kinda things and I think the reason is grown people always think they know everything they've seen everything they're never prepared to accept anything unique and different like us. But students/children they accept lgbt if they're taught about us When I came open about having a gf, most of my classmates welcome me and my gf. They seriously know how to embrace kinda unusual things

[@marmar90000]

To make things more interesting: Ask these individuals when they "chose NOT to be gay" instead of asking when they chose "to be straight". Make gayness the default they have to opt out of! 😋

[@mr.nolife7255]

​@@marmar90000 as we lived in this world and exposed to different life struggles and environment, the default of sexuality is somewhat an imaginary line that was made for human to live in a constructive society, but as the world keep moving foward toward modernization. The line is actually not much needed anymore, what we human do need is our own gauge of moral between right and wrong. To make my point simple is, asking them why they choose not to be gay is not the right way to make them understand, because sexuality isn't something that we can choose, what we can choose is how we react and act between it. We don't need to opress the other sexuality just so other can be equal, we need a better way and a better understand to live in harmony. And that is one of not the right way. peace out~

[@marmar90000]

@@mr.nolife7255 You do realize I was being facetious and do not actually think gayness should be the default, yes? I agree that "compassionate education" is the best/preferable approach, but sometimes you need to match and cut through an unempathetic antagonizer's energy in order to make your point land. A calculated "rude awakening," if you will.

[@mr.nolife7255]

@@marmar90000 i am sorry as it didn't reach my brain that you were being facetious. but sometimes I do think its not good to respond fire with fire as it would only get bigger and going nowhere.

[@1TW1-m5i]

Almost didn't click, but that title won me over.

[@michaelkelligan7931]

What makes someone gay? Science is trying to get it "straight" lolx10

[@bigstr9178]

Michael Kelligan ahahaha lol 😂

[@loop5720]

I hope the title's pun intended...

[@epik639]

gay

[@alphalostcontrol]

lmao

[@matthewgordon3281]

I have two thoughts on the science of gender identity and preference. !. We should definitely seek genuine knowledge about why people are as they are. 2. We don't need scientific explanations to except people who are different and not hurting anyone. Trans, cis, gay, lesbian, straight, asexual, nonbinary, bisexual, etc. just be good to people.

[@ivantothemax]

Being gay is tough, being feminine and a man people always want to slap a TRANS label on me but I don’t feel like a woman trapped in a mans body. I just feel like me. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏼‍♀️

[@austinslaughter319]

Your hair is awesome by the way.

[@Sybil413]

I'm straight but I feel your pain. Being a masculine woman people tend to assume I'm trans or a lesbian and it's really awkward sometimes.

[@imabadbitchyoucantkillme3334]

PREACH 👏🏽

[@libbyw5942]

@@Sybil413 lmao same, i never was really girly and have pretty "masucline" hobbies and get called a lesbian alot. Its mostly joking and i take it lightheartedly but its annoying sometimes

[@user-to1vd5bb8o]

Omg SaME

[@Sasha-qf8eu]

Now try and explain bisexual people😂 that's an even bigger mystery

[@astrius4125]

Probably same explanation, but toned down. A bisexual person would be a very versatile asset to the family: they can be the gay uncle, but they can also be the father.

[@kerchewy2571]

Bisexuality is a super power. We’re attracted to more than one gender. Take that monosexuals

[@Satan666Official]

I know right? Beautiful men, beautiful women... 😊 their outside becomes attractive when you understand the inside ❤ that's how it is for me anyways. ❤❤

[@TVC15ohoh]

I've always thought that to some extent nearly everyone is at least SLIGHTLY bisexual at heart.

[@OtterVal]

For me, liking guys was just acquired. I just like both sexes, they're both different

[@ThriftyCHNR]

This video was rational and quite balanced. Very good.

[@neilcognito]

I have some gripes - but evidently, it was very rational, balanced, on the other hand, It left more questions than answers - likewise, it also ignored many factors and simply tried to patterned homosexuality, which then ruined the theory itself. example, the lady said, "Homosexuality in men can be a result of boys sharing more femininity in their interests" to which I say, NOPE! while most gay men may be into feminine interests, it's largely shown that not all gay men are - same goes for females, while most gay females, may have more masculine interests, some are very feminine in their interests and lifestyle. Another gripe I had, was the "Fraternal birth order defect" it's largely based on the mother's immune system, damping male hormones, which makes every successive male possible to be gay, but while I agree with this, I say it doesn't explain it for female, since the immunes system won't dampen hormones it's already familiar with, since we know the immune system is to protect the body and isolate unnatural hormones or variables. If this was the case, all gay females would have to have an older sibling who's male to be proven as a factual guide to why people are born gay. Another one is how the lady mentioned that cultural exposure may be a side-effect, but then disprove it with the Fraternal birth thingy. Also, she mentioned that gay men are more likely to be attached to their mothers, which can be said for some, but definitely not all or the majority, I feel most men are naturally attached to their mothers, and most females are naturally attached to their dads, as some mothers naturally attach to their sons, and fathers their daughters. Another thing that annoyed me, was mentioned that gay is a weird anomaly (albeit a good one) because the evolution of a species is to survive, via reproduction. First off, gay people cans till get children - sure at times it may still have that "Taking care of the another's children" but with the evolution of science itself, men and still have children artificially (still organically) with other men and vice versa women with other women. That being said, is evolution the survival of a race, or the creation of a new one? because, apes are still apes, and humans are still humans, even if they evolved, that doesn't mean humans and apes are of the same species or race. So Homosexuality denies evolution if that's the case (You hear that homophobic churches, you can only have one, evolution or homosexuality, pick your pill). So evolution isn't about survival, that's a natural instinct in a species, while I think evolution is the natural expansion of lifeforms, the circle of life if you call it - the "lions eat the deer, the lions die, turn to grass, and the deer eat the grass" lion king style. All this to say, as the lady said "there are different variants in a species" and I think, that's just this at play, patterns don't work the same for humans, as it does for another instictual organism. Humans are all different variants, as such, gay people exist the same way they exist across all other species - I'm no scientist or smart person, so everything I said, could be bullshit, but this is way labels are nonsense - we can't label all people who like men as men as gay, or like women as women as gay because of the fact that not everyone will fall under an umbrella, that's why in science all humans are a variable, not all medication works out for everyone, and similarly not all labels fix everyone.

[@solarprogeny6736]

@@neilcognito This only focused on males, not females.

[@neilcognito]

@@solarprogeny6736 um, I'm more surprise you read even part of that rambling. That's way more intriguing. But yeah, it was too limited in focus that's partially why i had a problem with some of the points mentioned. Still though, you a MVP.

[@Geniethegraet]

@@neilcognito They have several avenues of research. Statistics show that more males in a family means that each successive child has a chance to be gay. It isn't perfect, of course, it could also be a genetic response. We just don't know yet, you made some good points, its just science is about statistics in science, yeah, a lot of gay men or women exhibit attributes of the opposite sex, but it doesn't mean all of them do. It's about generalization, correlation etc etc. You did make some good points though.

[@wacawaca3]

Free from political ideologies. A true oasis in the middle of bs

[@syedmammar1]

All I know is that being gay or straight is not a conscious choice we make.

[@skyler862]

Actually, it is you just don’t know It yet

[@Brave-tamer]

​@@skyler862source?

[@anticorncob6]

​@@skyler862 I know for an absolute fact that it isn't, because I tried choosing to be straight and couldn't. Therefore, at least for me personally, it is not a conscious and revertible choice. Period. There is no counter-argument to that.

[@Zomboid67]

​@@anticorncob6i was gay at 14 - 19 I had my boyfriend But I didn't know something just snapped I was losing interest in dcks but more interest in pussy Buy 19 I was doing gym Idk whether it's hormone stuff

[@dieselboy.7637]

​@@skyler862 ok then, by your logic, being straight/hetero is also a choice, so, when did you decided to be straight?

[@St4ticScratch]

Not the best headline... good pun though?

[@osse1n]

Spring Fuse Nice one!

[@joxerrrrr]

What do you mean not the best headline?? If that is not a good headline i don't know what is. And the video is actually a good video as well.

[@VinnieSajan]

It is a pun!

[@madampawsy1903]

I don't think it sounds like it gay > straight conversion. I just thought it was funny :> if people want to make gay jokes, these are the ones they should make

[@TremblingQualifier]

@@madampawsy1903 Not funny though.

[@kamiyabritton7098]

She's trying so hard to explain this without stepping on any toes

[@lilmrscutsie4524]

? she explained it pretty normally to me. maybe you're not used to hearing the technical terms

[@oliverwilson11]

Not really. Scientists and social scientists talk this way because they don't want to accidentally say something incorrect, not because they don't want to accidentally say something offensive.

[@ale9507]

@@oliverwilson11 No, definitely appeasement.

[@DisneyMagicDreamer85]

I'm cringing right now. I get that she is trying not to step on any toes, but she is failing miserably. Ugh. Plus, I hate some of these presumtions. Gay men = more feminine. Lesbian women = more masculine. I know plenty of gay and straight people that don't fit these kind of stereotypes! Our culture is changing and self expression is becoming more important. Science is falling behind if it still tries to enforce these kind of 'square peg round hole' explanations. How about this for a scientific explanation: human beings are attracted to other human beings on a varying spectrum instead of a binary. How about we recognize that people are just different and unpredictable and that it is ok to be human? And as for not being a "logical survival strategy" homosexuality has been found in primates, mammals and some species of birds too. Is nature just plain illogical or what? Sorry for the rant, I thought I would like this video, oh well. Thx for reading.

[@ladyboywonder9139]

Kamiya Britton maybe that’s how you see it but actually it’s just fucking objective

[@chanceDdog2009]

Dont have kids. But am straight. Family expects for me to help with their kids. And are upset i don't want to. I like kids. But if you have them its not the responsibility of the childless person to help you with them. ...

[@breek.8678]

yet you will depend on someone else's children to take care of you when you get very old or possibly very sick. In modern times, thats not so much a problem, we have currency and you will be able to hoard the resources youve earned in your life... thus allowing you to pay younger people to take care of you once you are too old. But historically human society works best when we all contribute. The entire village takes care of the young and later the young grows up to take care of the old.

[@chanceDdog2009]

@@breek.8678 i worked in a nursing home and a hospice. Thats not how it works. Im ready for my final days and know there probably won't be any family to look after me. That is far more common than you seem to think. I still have relationships with people and their kids. .. But no one owes you care giving because you took care of them as kids. And you are not obligated to be on call for others because you want payback when you are old...

[@breek.8678]

@@chanceDdog2009 You take care of young because is your responsibility to your community not because you want payback. Our society allocates taxes to children and elderly for this reason... we as a society realize we are responsible for our vulnerable. You are paying for other people's kids every paycheck. And young people will pay for you when you no longer work.

[@chanceDdog2009]

@@breek.8678 i agree. I pay my taxes and vote for generous allocations to schools and healthcare services. Thats a social contract. Loving kids. And wanting kids are two different things.

[@rob20ist]

That is why you are a smart person because only the stupid have children.

[@joshsmit779]

As a masculine cisgender gay man, growing up in samoa and automatically be assumed a transgender would cause me so much confusion and strife.

[@apatameh5155]

I'm a gay man who is half Tongan. in Tongan culture there is also a third gender called fakaleiti, that basically makes gay men become women. And like you said, It would have been rough. , I'm just glad I didn't grow up fully in the culture and made to become fakaleiti. I feel like THAT would have been at least equal to the shittiness of growing up gay in the Mormon culture that I did. And looking at it from that perspective, I guess no matter how you sliced it, I wasn't getting out of it easy. At least now I can just be myself, where as in Tongan I would have been forced into a role that didn't fit me. This was way longer than I intended. I need to stop day drinking. Sorry. :)

[@cnnhean]

cis?

[@enzopotel]

yes. There are many different societies in this world, so to be a homosexual (of any kind) meets a great variety of confusions and strifes in this world...

[@rosiex2757]

i mean, at least they aren't killing them like in other cultures right? at least they are still accepting of them (though not perfect)

[@brian-vm1zt]

Wtf is cis

[@saquist]

I'm gay. I was never interested in social role play. I'm competitive I never had many female friends. I absolutely NEVER wanted to dress as a woman. For me. I was raised with a Neglectful Father and a hoard of women. Girls never accepted me as a choice...guys did.

[@Vereid]

Almost entirely the same with me. I've never been attracted to effeminate men either (I like masculine men). Very complicated.

[@CrazyBlueBeast]

@@Vereid It's very common for gay guys to like masculine men because we adopt the 'female' perspective of what makes an attractive man attractive

[@Aimia4]

@Lanla Colan wow you're angry. No one in today's western culture conflates transexuality with homosexuality. You're fighting an imaginary historical figure, that has been pushed by 'liberal' narratives to make LGBTI+ communities feel more oppressed than they already are. There are some legitimate issues and concerns for the community to fight, but this isn't one of them. This sort of tirade only serves to alienate your heterosexual allies, and it's not only false, but counter-productive.

[@Sean-dl8ym]

@deepweeb dive every single woman I've known has found the same guys attractive that I find attractive. The reason most women don't bother to put "masc only" in their dating profiles is because the vast majority of straight men are naturally masculine and thus women have no need to weed out feminine men. Studies have shown time and time again that gay men, on the whole, are innately gender atypical in childhood. The few who aren't usually still desire masculinity in their partners, creating an extreme deficit of masculine men in the gay dating pool. It's actually pretty tragic.

[@lilmeow531]

@@CrazyBlueBeast That's not true. There are plenty of gay men who like twinks and men with more feminine features and these gay men tend to be more masculine generally

[@indiepunkftw]

This is why I love the scientific method and intellectual discussion. To take such a controversial and polarizing subject, and break it down, objectively, into its specific interlocking parts and hypothesize and parse WITHOUT judgment - just to figure out why things are the way they are. Articulately stated and poignantly direct, I could listen to these journeys into the human psyche all day.

[@manjari8398]

Well said

[@MsNicoleRR]

Absolutely agree 💯

[@juaneliasdelacruz7893]

Being gay isn’t something you choose it’s something you become when jk Rowling decides

[@neonpixel27]

that a nice joke haha 😂

[@whiski6436]

@@neonpixel27 what joke?

[@neonpixel27]

@@whiski6436 The one above

[@thefatbob3710]

@@whiski6436 you

[@roseyep3968]

@@neonpixel27 nice to feel haha

[@kylegalloway7699]

‘we have hints about facial symmetry’ thats how theyre gonna prove why all gay men are gorgeous

[@KingkyLeor]

*laughs in ugly gay*

[@whiski6436]

nikado avacado

[@lomeshthorul9647]

oh hell nah☠️

[@randywatts6969]

Many are physically ugly

[@Peeta-wn4hh]

I read a while ago about an AI that had a very high success rate rating people gay or straight just by looking at a picture of the person’s face. It’s both interesting and terrifying at the same time.

[@expired_poppers]

"Straight people have been less interesting to scientists then gay people" Oh honey, it's not just scientists. That fact is valid across the board.

[@ivantothemax]

TELL THEM SISSSS LMAAOOO

[@DamizinhoBr]

Than* And, you're wrong!

[@Bib24]

It's not about how 'interesting' you are, it's just about you being attracted to someone

[@DamizinhoBr]

@Nexo Nerd 101 u don't understand, thats the new wave now changing ur sexuality. and, u have to say youre going through a rough time facing this new 'you' So, by doing that u can finnaly fit in in today's society

[@heartreplacment163]

I personally find all forms of sexuality rather intriguing.

[@diegocastro4594]

I'm the youngest of three brothers and it turned out I'm Gay.. so it fits into this chain of male male-gay... Way to go mom! :-D

[@fumarate1]

I'm in the same boat as well.

[@non-binarygremlin6516]

Lol same same I have two brothers then me A LESBIAN tho I do call myself gay cuz you can call lesbians gay toooooo So yeah Male-male-GAY

[@ericgonzalez3641]

I'm the youngest of 4 brothers and it's also my case (all of them are straight)

[@tb-nt8gl]

I am shocked rn because I'm the older brother and I am the gay one 😅😂

[@donnie9291]

"What makes someone gay?" My brain: *ricardo milos*

[@cedrickvidal1362]

Lol, 34 likes

[@PabloEmanuel96]

I'm the first son and also gay And my younger brothers are straight

[@biucff9739]

pablo emanuel exception not the rule?

[@lejlateletovic5225]

@@biucff9739 Yeah, I have several friend who are gay (with feminine voice and gestures) and their older brothers are manly man :D She mentioned that it's one of the possibilities, when the cause is not genetic, but rather epigenetics.

[@PabloEmanuel96]

@@biucff9739 yeah Maybe

[@PabloEmanuel96]

@@lejlateletovic5225 but in my case it is the opposite I'm gay and my younger brothers are manly

[@billymasoner3735]

Same here, firstborn.

[@helmaschine1885]

Wow, I'm happy to see such a scientifically focused video on the subject for once! I would really love to hear any scientific findings you have on lesbian and bisexual women in the future too :D

[@thisisfine4093]

Soon nessie. Soon.

[@LANLAMPAN]

theres a link between add/adhd and bisexuality that I have observed. no scienist have dares to put their minds to this. But for sure if you take a sample size of bisexuals and a group of straight people you would see a large discrepancy in the first group.

[@aurancrash4654]

Biased but sure "scientific" if you like...

[@RogerValor]

​@@LANLAMPAN is this your personal observation? add/adhd is like 4-10% of the population, which makes it quite common (so basically every social gathering you ever went to had several adhd people in it), so it also makes it probably just as common amongst gay people I would suppose, so I don't know if I could recognize the correlation. Just curious. You should try to find a student who does the study! :D

[@zacharypayne4080]

There are no lesbians..

[@danehay5057]

If two men get married who carves the turkey?

[@powerhouse884]

TheExplorer No, they are the head of the place!

[@mysigt_]

The turkey carves them.

[@tsopmocful1958]

I don't know, but they probably both punch the chocolate.

[@Crispman_777]

The Daddy ;)

[@otto-g5y]

”Carve the turkey” ey ey ey.. know what I mean? Ey ey ey?

[@nostalgia9338]

Found out crush is gay now I'm suddenly interested in the history of homosexuality.

[@yorib.4014]

"Children who are boys", why don't just call them boys?

[@sistervoid8798]

Yörükcan Erbay. children whom just so have happened to be male boys

[@horreheitedet4320]

Boys can be teenagers?

[@TheWitchofEndor-1]

Because she was talking about children... a boy can be a teenager preteen etc....

[@solarprogeny6736]

Because she is specifically talking about male children, boy can describe any age

[@mexheix]

I know, I guess it is a scientific thing, as a science student, I also often write like that because I want every thing to be very clear and no ambiguous area, which ends up sound weird in normal circumstances.

[@baphnie]

I assume the down-votes for this video came from people who.... don't like conversation and/or statistics? She didn't say anything that could be reasonably construed as offensive or divisive.

[@Maddbox11235]

Some people are genuine bigots who freak out at anything that isn't critical of homosexuality. Some social-justice types failed science class, and freak out, going "She made a broad generalization about childhood behavior of gay males!", for example, and don't pay attention to the fact that she is not engaged in bigotry and that she's discussing reasonable scientific studies. Either way, some people are just plain stupid.

[@bryanbroacosta]

baphnie not many downvotes, and its impossible not to have any downvotes

[@oliverwilson11]

There's not an unusually high number of downvotes. Every video that gets thousands of votes has some downvotes, there doesn't have to be a reason for it

[@tehkuwen5222]

This isn’t Reddit : P

[@sadisticsadist1828]

Some people want citations.

[@willfrank961]

My jaw literally dropped for half a minute at the fraternal birthorder thing. That's really surprising. Great talk! She definitely has scientific rigour in her blood.

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

I was born first of three boys. I'm gay, they are str8. So much for that theory.

[@willfrank961]

Ah yes. The good ol' "there's an exception to the rule so it must not be a rule". You truly are very special. (She said it's more likely, not a certainty)@@Leftatalbuquerque

[@alexh6767]

Yeah she is very smart, I enjoyed this discussion. Gender equality is great

[@shawnsnider7564]

Almost all my gay friends are a 2nd or 3rd brother.. I'm 2nd..

[@tommoncrieff1154]

The fraternal birth order thing has been known for a long time. I remember watching a BBC doc in the 1990s about this topic. I am a third son and gay. But my husband is an only child and other gay friends are first born sons. I have a friend who’s one of 7 children and all but the first are gay or lesbian and the first says she actually is a lesbian too but in her day it was suppressed and she married a man. It doesn’t apply to every person, it applies statistically overall to a group. If every third son were gay previous generations would never have had more than 2 boys, it’s just a general statistic. There are likely multiple causes why people are gay. I like the professor’s theory that gays are useful to the species and if you think about it countries like Iran aren’t terribly successful or functional.

[@justarandomdude.9285]

I don't pick anyone's side or even religion. I'm where science is found.

[@Mircalla]

It's amazing how many of the comments just ignore the contents of the video in order to make fun of gay people, based on things that aren't true.

[@tsopmocful1958]

Well, two guys mincing around saying 'fabulous' all the time and then pushing things into their out holes can be rather comical, while mannish women who complain about men while dressing like them and trying to steal men's girlfriends has its own humourous quality too. That is, of course, when it isn't just disgusting and repellant for most heterosexuals.

[@Mircalla]

@@tsopmocful1958 You've clearly never met a gay person in real life, if you think that we all fit those stereotypes. The huge majority of gay people are exactly the same as straight people.

[@Lopzta]

@@Mircalla I wouldn't mind most people's comments. A big portion of it seems to be innocent jokes based on stereotypes. Every group of people gets to be the butt of jokes. Generally, people's acceptance of LGBTs has become better and better over the last years. And this trend isn't going to end too soon.

[@ginsuma1402]

Who wouldn't make a pun about people that play in doo doo chutes and rub their (female) genitals together like oddballs? It's banter nobody genuinely hates you guys until you start trying to preach the gay to our kids...like leave kids out of it.

[@mysigt_]

Ginsuma “preach the gay to our kids” what?

[@HBDiniz10]

So... I'm an only child... and I'm gay... HOL UP

[@zachseason7824]

Same, I'm gay and gothic. I'm a cute guy and I keep getting compliments it is annoying..like (lit) erally.

[@zachseason7824]

🎃

[@HBDiniz10]

@@zachseason7824 yeah of COOOOURSE YOU ARE

[@zachseason7824]

@@HBDiniz10 Literally I am. Don't be jelous. I'm sorry if I did. Here is a cookie for you. 😏...🍪 Munch Munch. It's Pumpkin chocolate chip cookie. I don't just make it for anyone you know.. it's my gothic cookies.🎃

[@zachseason7824]

@@MisterMike101 Aww very appreciative of your comment. And you are just perfect, here is a cookie for you to eat 🍪

[@ImmundaDeus]

I am the youngest of 5, 3rd boy, gay, and I help my parents take care of my sister's kids. Hmm... ~The more you know~

[@orangeziggy599]

Good to know!

[@seguralimondavidabsalon8540]

It actually males sense to me... 😦

[@yogiperogy]

One “advantage” of having a gay child is the improved likelihood of elderly parents’ needs being met because their straight siblings are “too busy” making and caring for children to “have the time” to provide an appropriate level of care for aged parents whose needs increase with time. As a gay man myself I’ve seen that scenario play out with my friends and the dynamics are as mentioned.

[@Jay_Johnson]

Yes but that is not an evolutionary advantage.

[@DJ-yh8hm]

If a parent sees it that way, they must the most selfish person ever. You don't get children to take care of you that's so wrong.

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@DJ-yh8hm that’s how it worked before the widespread adoption of pensions and the welfare state.

[@mylesleggette7520]

@@DJ-yh8hm Why on earth is it "wrong" for the parents to expect some gratitude from those they literally provided life to? And don't trot out the usual nonsense cherry-picking about bad parents - why is it wrong for good parents who provided a good life to their children to expect those children to give some modicum of care toward their parents in old age? Also, it is an evolutionary advantage, because people who care for their parents in old age not only preserve the accumulated knowledge of those old people for longer, but model good caregiving to their own children. It increases the survival rate of the group as a whole.

[@DJ-yh8hm]

@@mylesleggette7520 It is wrong on so many levels. It's peak selfishness to give a birth to a human who never asked to be born and expect them to take care of you. They have their own life and problems (because of your decision). You don't provide for them as something "extra" you must do that as a parent. They don't own you anything at all. Expecting them to ruin their lives and waste their time just because you want to put your life first is so disgusting. They are not your kids at that point they're your minions/slaves.

[@pinoyblclub]

As a gay guy it feeled good that science treat us special. It make my gay heart warm. ❤

[@MisterMike101]

Ur not special tho you're natures mistake 😁😁😁

[@geooxton3013]

Lmaoo

[@uttamkumarghosh5267]

@@MisterMike101 you gay?

[@hscar-no8oz]

You should’ve said it makes your gay heart glitter ✨ Lol 😂

[@algonzalez6853]

@*Tea Truffel* he spilled tho

[@growinggreenthings]

My husband and I are both first born. So we are still unexplained in this video. I have always been the annoying brother trying to get my brother to have kids so I can spoil them though! He's 30 and finally has a serious girlfriend that I will meet this spring! So excited!

[@StewNWT]

Yeah I’m first born as well. 3 younger sisters and 1 of them gay as well

[@melon_choly]

I'm a lesbian only child, but at least I have a nephew

[@shawnsnider7564]

Almost all my gay friends are the 2nd or 3rd brother.. 2nd brother here. Don't discount mothers who have miscarriages, as sometimes the 1st brother is actually the 2nd or 3rd.

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

As a child I gravitated toward women because they were nice. Also my father was angry and men seemed to be somewhat rigid and I found that to be intimidating. Weirdly, my mom always says I was a “man’s” child. She said I got attention from men as opposed to my brother who got lots of attention from women who thought he was adorable. Anyway, I knew fairly early on I was attracted to men, probably as early as age 11. I have a memory which I don’t know is true but I think at very young like age 6-8 or something I remember my parents going to bed and I knew they slept in the same bed and I had a thought that I wanted a man in my bed when I grow up (it wasn’t even sexual, it was like, I just wanted a man in my bed. Lol). My sexuality became more overt for me in 8th grade when I found that I was attracted to the AP, who was in his late 30’s or early 40’s. My attraction was not overtly sexual, because I was still a bit young, but I was attracted to him in a way that was romantic but my feelings weren’t mature enough to fully understand it. The following year, 9th grade, my attractions were much more developed. By that point I knew what I was attracted to sexually or some idea. I was attracted toe several of my male teachers, and my best friend’s dad I thought was pretty hot. Anyway. I didn’t ask for this. It is different. Sometimes I wish I was straight. It is what it is. This video was great.

[@Robespierre-lI]

We all have our stories. But it's important to remember that the way we recount them has been very heavily influenced by social expectations that childhood experiences with gender, strong mothers, weak fathers, etc etc etc are important to becoming gay. None of those old hypotheses has ever been proven to be true. Similarly, fantasies of relationships before puberty are usually best understood as mere child's play - literally. If you watch enough families raise children, you'll find that it's usually the parents or an adult relative who encourages the idea of having a "boyfriend" or 'girlfriend" playmate, then the child acts it out. Often, the adults don't even realize that they are doing it.

[@Switchplayar]

Very interesting and well explained! I consider myself gay and i have 3 older brothers, so that made a lot of sense.

[@jackwattson992]

this video was good and explained everything but I'm the oldest of my brothers and I'm gay😭 so I guess that's rare? idk

[@Switchplayar]

@@jackwattson992 I guess, its at least less likley then my scenario

[@jackwattson992]

@@Switchplayar yeaa all the gay guys ik are the youngest

[@jackwattson992]

@@Switchplayar it obviously doesn't matter lol but it's just interesting

[@tb-nt8gl]

​@@jackwattson992same here lol guess you're not alone

[@JacksHQ]

Underrated title.

[@Jotakumon]

Really the only reason I clicked on the video and I do not regret it. Came for the title, stayed for the science.

[@lolgerman]

Almost cried watching this. Only us gays know what it feels like to be gay and know it since you’re a little kid. 😢

[@bill-cipher000]

Why are u gae

[@CommanderCodey]

@Jed Clampett sexuality isn’t a choice though 🤡. It’s due to DNA and the brain.

[@calvinlenox]

@Jed Clampett The way I see it, anyone can choose to or have a desire to date, marry, sleep with, or have kids with anyone. This does not mean that they prefer to do so with that specific person due to sexual attraction. Being gay is not a choice; being in a relationship is.

[@_Spider4]

@@CommanderCodey it is a choice u 🤡🤡🤡

[@conorstapleton3183]

Makes sense to me. I have a gay uncle and he is the youngest of three brothers.

[@PLuMUK54]

I look forward to a day, which will probably never happen, when people would be shocked to hear that someone asks why a person is gay. Does it matter?

[@jarynn8156]

It's an interesting scientific question. Common sense would tell you that our biological evolution should make homosexuality impossible.

[@Potatocrime24-7]

​@@jarynn8156 but it happens in nature all the time mostly with mammals so where is evolutions reason there. Sometimes the best answer to give is. "That's just how it is". Not everything needs a full proof reasoning and science needs to learn that.

[@jarynn8156]

@@Potatocrime24-7 Why not investigate? You never know what you'll find. A great deal of important discoveries have happened on the way to other things.

[@Potatocrime24-7]

@@jarynn8156 it is always good to investigate things to learn more. But some things really have no explanation. Homosexuality is one of those things. The only answer is that some people and animals just prefer to have relations with the same sex. Nothing really evolutionary or scientifically appealing about it.

[@jarynn8156]

@@Potatocrime24-7 There absolutely is something scientifically interesting about it. It's a natural behavior that defies evolutionary logic. While that might normally be explained by a one off genetic defect, this one is inheritable and survives through many generations despite the fact the trait actively reduces the change of reproductive success. It's a fascinating question as to how.

[@vladyslavkorenyak872]

This is a VERY good Big Think video. Please, continue doing this kind of content.

[@CarlosArturoVelarde]

I grew up in Mexico. My favorite things were dolls and dressing them. My favorite colors have always been red, pink, and purple. I loved social situations, didn’t really like hanging out with other boys, I’m a very good cook although baking doesn’t really work for me. I have never been a drinker. I like music, art, fashion. I can see both males and females as good-looking (attractive?) but have never found men sexually attractive. I have more in common with my mother than my father. I love women, I am very attracted to females and their anatomy, and I never thought or felt that any of my likes or dislikes made me any less of a man. Growing up, my schoolmates would call me names, my cousins would tell my mom they thought I was gay. My mom just laughed at them and told them that I was just more sensitive and emotional with a strong caretaker instinct and there was nothing wrong with me. I am almost 60 and I can count my male friends in one hand and have fingers left over. I am still normally surrounded by women, and have become confidant to most of them and emotional support to a lot fo them too. So where do I fall in the “spectrum”? As far as I am concerned I am 100% man.

[@aestheticlife134]

Well as you mentioned above about dolls , so there's this thing that at being almost 3 year old, i wanted a doll and my father got me one and i liked to explore makeup , i also don't have any male friends, either cuz they somehow don't like me , even without showing myself gay and trying to be straight.

[@danielsong2936]

Maybe like gaga said. "I was born this way"

[@nantezashabirah5261]

Am also born this way

[@ThePeacePlant]

@Sociosocial I kind of agree or at least that's my situation. I was never turned on by men and wanted women my whole life and have been with women but sometime in my life I turned out to be attracted to feminine men

[@someonesomeone25]

It seems to vary. I think most gay men are hardwired gay from a very young age. But some people change in later life for various reasons.

[@funwithgum926]

This still doesn’t explain why there are some gays who are more masculine than some straight men. She’s only referring to femme gays which is only a percentage of the community.

[@zemjata]

Yea for real...You'd be surprised how many more masc guys there are than Femm gays....They just hide it soo much better

[@clover7359]

I break all the rules. I’m gay, masculine, first born male, and I would suck at raising nieces/nephews.

[@orangeziggy599]

Its not about raising them, it's about providing some care and attention.

[@Urban_Piggy]

Volvocloud nieces and nephews are the best if you can give them back at the end of the day. Then it’s good.

[@stevenpictures1]

I appreciate the fact that this video is not biased in any way but simply says that this is what we know by science

[@3aZM]

What about females who are attracted to females? Is it also epigenetic?

[@asherschmidt9820]

From what I've seen, on youtube mostly though, there aren't as much studies on woman in general, but in particular of sexuality/homosexuality.

[@asherschmidt9820]

Why would a tuck load of women lie about being lesbian... beyond those earlier years?? Also, even if lesbianism were _just a phase_ for these young women, shouldn't they *still be called lesbian anyway*

[@fool4343]

@A W you can say things like that but do you have the statistics and proof not based on personal experience?

[@asherschmidt9820]

Umearau , yea, not sure if they're were baiting, but eh

[@brian-vm1zt]

@@fool4343 I know a couple in their 60's that are lesbians. But the truth is, I know about 30 gay couples. I would imagine the ration of gay to lesbian is heavily gay 80%+

[@idonttireeasily]

I’m a female and when I was a kid I played soccer, played with toy trucks and cars, and built with legos. When I did play family role play games, I asked to be the dad so that I could hold hands with the girl playing the mom. How did no one know I was gay? 😂

[@EvaFariou]

I played with many boys games too some times. With grls too. But I am not gay!!! And I'm really proud!!! 😊

[@alexh6767]

I did all that and I'm a trans man that is straight. I guess we're all different and it doesn't matter 😂

[@_Spider4]

WEIRDOS

[@VIJAYKAPUR89]

Homosexuality may be nature's way of keeping the population of a species within acceptable levels. If the population becomes too large (more than what the environment can support), then some natural mechanism may increase the percentage of homosexual offspring being born, which would later decrease the birth rate in that species, and bring down its population to an acceptable level. If the population is too small (i.e., the species is at risk of extinction), then an opposite natural mechanism may decrease the percentage of homosexual offspring being born, which would later increase the birth rate in that species, and hence increase its population to an acceptable level.

[@MrTimdog1985]

Great video. I've always had a hunch that maybe gay offspring often grow up to become a "priest class", and/or focus in on the cultural pursuits that bond a community together. Might add another group selection level fitness.

[@rainman11985]

I have certainly seen it said before there is a long tradition of funneling gays into the priesthood... I don't think it worked out very well. Conversely Nuns were often former prostitutes, no wonder they got a rep for being nasty pieces of work who hated children.

[@lenn939]

There’s a reason why group selection isn’t part of mainstream evolutionary biology anymore. I was extremely disappointed when she started talking in those terms. As someone who’s trying to teach people about matters of biology, she really should know better than that.

[@random_gamer_guy82]

I work with two gay men and are openly gay. Ones 30 and ones 58 and the difference between there views are insane. I'm 100% straight and have 2 girls, and the amount of times the two ask me if I'd consider "trying it " with either of them is mad ,strange feeling for me personally as a straight man knowing two guys want to do me is 100% flattering honestly. I'm comfortable with talking with them about anything and I've learned for me that gay men are equally as curious about the other side as straight lads are if there honest about the gay side of things. It's a bizarre feeling for the same sex to fancy a straight guy and honestly I'm flattered how straight up honest gay guys are!!!

[@Robespierre-lI]

You think they'd catch the hint that you aren't going to go for it after a couple times asking. Lol. You must be incredibly handsome.

[@gabriellaamaria4986]

The question isn't why some people are gay or why some people are straight but why aren't we all bisexuals?

[@alipoo52]

props to whoever came up with the title

[@jaydendavis5047]

Helping my mom makes me gay 😭😭😭

[@robertnickol9598]

Thank you for this. This helped me immensely. Although no one knows for certain why some men are gay, this offers profound new insights into this complex question.

[@andre_serafim]

As a gay man with no "female traces" or "female personality" i would say that the way men treat women and gays is what causes this "social distancing". Is not easy to be arround chauvinism and homophobia. So the tendency is to move away from these ideals, to go in the opposite direction. Often tending more towards the feminine side or participating in "gay culture" as a lifestyle and way of thinking, so you can belong somewere. Some people are born gay, without question, but sexist culture leads us to a behavioral detachment.

[@jpe1]

While I would not call for any topic to be “off limits” for scientific research, and I think good things will come from researching the origins of sexual orientation, I do wish that there was more room in our culture for people to simply choose to be gay. I reject the premise that the only reason gay behavior should be tolerated is that gay men have no choice in their sexual orientation. I will argue that if it’s truly “ok to be gay” then it’s ok *even if* it “just” a choice. I worry that if science figures out “what makes someone gay” then there will be pressure to “unmake” gay people.

[@mysigt_]

John Early if homosexuality was completely involuntary, it is easy to dismiss claims of its immorality, for what is not a choice is not in the realm of morality. If it turns out to be partially or wholly voluntary, homophobes wouldn’t automatically win out. The debate will just have moved from whether homosexuality is a choice and/or a disease, to whether or not it is moral to choose to be gay. The “unmaking” of gay people may benefit some of them, as there are homosexuals who’d rather not have their sexual orientation (which may spark a debate as to why). I don’t think there’s a risk that any such “treatment” would become obligatory in the civilized world. If anything, research may help those who are currently forcefully subjected to it by their families, as it no longer has to be ineffectual torture. But I agree with you, such a future would be scary in a way. And I too wish that public opinion would be more accepting of a voluntary homosexuality.

[@walkinmn]

You're talking about cultural problems not scientific problems, and nothing should be limited to science because science is about understanding our world and our selves, and with knowledge comes understanding. Also research is telling us that sexuality is not a binary thing, is not straight or gay, it's probably more like a spectrum so the idea of "unmaking gay" it's just not logical. If one day in the future we're able to control the color of the eyes of a baby maybe you could control the spectrum but as with any subject about designer babies it's all very controvertial, and of course many unethical things about it won't happen in real life.

[@jpe1]

walkin mn I agree with you! The science comes first, and I support any and all (good) scientific research, regardless of the conclusion, because truth is paramount. Doesn’t mean I’m not nervous that the current majority of Americans who would prefer to live in a world where everyone is conforming to heterosexual stereotypes won’t seize on any results and use them to try to eliminate sexual minorities.

[@walkinmn]

@@jpe1 i do understand but as with any technological advancement it can be used for good or bad, also, this is a very hypothetical situation, it's like wanting to stop research about the Higgs Bosson on particle accelerators because it could create a black hole or whatever. What we do need right now is understanding how our sexuality and gender identity works, so we can understand each other better and help those who need it. Right now there's very little research about it and for example, in my case was being able to read and understand the research that we had about what helped me to understand who I was (not that this applies to everyone). That there's the dabger that a group of people can use this knowledge to hurt people? Yes, there's already a lot of groups hurting the lgbt community but what we need is knowledge, tolerance and respect. Edit: Knowledge is power and having more tools its easier to pass laws that defend the rights of minorities and get more people to understand and accept people that may have a different preference than theirs.

[@tsopmocful1958]

@@walkinmn Not only that, but scientific research into gayness goes beyond any human concerns, but is also a question about evolution itself that requires investigation, because it is not immediately apparent why gayness would be continually naturally selected for, or at least not continually selected against.

[@4X4_TrailSeeker]

Very interesting and I agree with the part about ‘womb gay’. I myself am the youngest son with several older brothers and sisters and had two long term relationships with men that were the youngest sons as well with several older brothers. It was something I’d thought of long ago and now it makes sense. Thanks

[@kokumpollito7329]

Bro, I'm a firstborn and I'm gay. So where am I in the statistics?

[@SonOfFurzehatt]

You're still in there. Any boy can be gay - older brothers only increase the likelihood.

[@kokumpollito7329]

@@SonOfFurzehatt oh... man, I kinda needed someone telling me I'm not doing something wrong by being gay. Thank you

[@SonOfFurzehatt]

@@kokumpollito7329 You're not doing anything wrong. You're a worthwhile human being and you should ignore anyone who tells you otherwise.

[@tom-kz9pb]

During embryonic development, everyone starts out basically as "female", with indistinguishable "proto-gonads". These only differentiate at later stages of development. There are anatomical, developmental counterparts: what becomes the clitoris in females becomes the penis in males; what becomes labia in females becomes the scrotum in males; what becomes ovaries in females becomes testicles in males. Things can deviate from the typical development in a lot of different ways. Sometimes you can have men who also have a small vagina, or people who have "ovotestes" that are a mix of ovarian and testicular tissue. People can have XXY chromosomes ("Klinefelter Syndrome"), where their bodies are a mix of "XX" (female) and "XY" (male). Such people tend to be feminized men with some breast development and small genital size. Interestingly, this condition seems to have a correlation with "gender dysphoria", but not simply with "sexual orientation". It seems like "gender identity" and "sexual orientation" are somewhat separate in the brain, a bit like the visual cortex being separate from auditory function (this point being my own observation, not something that I've yet confirmed in reading)

[@benjaminshauri380]

Woman. This is the kind of scientific, non biased, non dramatic dishing out of knowledge that will really save the world. Who can be homophobic after listening to this. It's great

[@LeCrenn]

Agreed.

[@kar98aweapon]

abosolutly agree!!!.I can confirmed this is a hundred percent explanation with no offense

[@DJ-yh8hm]

You're kidding right? I couldn't understand what she was saying the whole video 😂 She didn't even say anything new and was trying to be careful and politically correct. Nothing scientific about this at all. Back in the day, scientists actually answered questions. Now they are politicians who just talk and don't say anything.

[@lightningmaster8914]

"What makes someone gay? Science is trying to get it straight." very poor choice of words

[@sandrajackson709]

Does it really suprise anyone that a penis or vagina doesn't always determine everything about someone and that people are not always as predictable as many people would like for them to be?

[@karllieck9064]

As the great Buddy Cole said: "Straight people know as much about gay people as Americans know about Canada."

[@rayexception4590]

honestly I'm straight but I feel like it'd be a good idea for there be ways to change someone's attraction in the future I can't even imagine how it'd feel like being ostracized and hated just for something you were born with against your own will

[@popsikern5848]

The solution to racism isn't to make black people white, it's to accept that you should treat black people the same way you should treat white people. I think the same can also be said for sexuality. I don't think we should be changing anyone's sexual attraction, but instead accepting people who deviate from heterosexuality as normal.

[@fb150185]

Surprisingly this ended up being interesting. I am gay but am still curious about the why. If there is any. Why = evolutionary speaking. As she says it's curious that the trait doesn't dissappear over time. I mean, I'm glad! Haha otherwise I wouldn't be myself :p

[@heavenlyfairchild8645]

In the 7th grade i realised i was into a girl and it felt great i am now pansexual and happy and dont care what others think.

[@dhruvkumar282]

thank you i reaally needed thisss

[@alina616]

I absolutely loved it. So matter of fact, real and convincing. That is what I needed to understand the issue. Thank you

[@Aleksandrgrc]

Frog water

[@husainkun836]

I liked what the doctor said in this video. She made many things clear as well.

[@MusicWordMusic]

A lot of this is missing cause and effect. It's all effects. "Womb gay" mechanism may be stress > hormone imbalance > feminizing or masculinizing part of brain developing in fetus at that time. That would also explain later male children, because having a 4th or 5th boy is certainly more stressful.

[@EtzEchad]

This is impossible for science to study in the current political climate. It would be like trying to study IQ for various races.

[@EtzEchad]

ttnn123456789 That’s not the point.

[@deeperdee]

I have been in love with this channel since their beginning, and as a gay man, I’m very very happy this topic was chosen for a video

[@desertfox2403]

I appreciate this information. It has made me think more on the overall processes involved. Excellent talk!

[@mrfriendlolo4971]

Literally when she said, “it’s logical to question it, it isn’t a evolutionary advantage” I was like, yes my thoughts exactly, I clicked on this video as a gay man to figure myself out scientifically 😂

[@leahmcpherson7560]

This is genuinely interesting and thought provoking; specifically, what then causes Asexuality? What evolutionary benefit would asexuality have? Would it be the same as the example with the nieces and nephews? The three asexuals to whom I have spoken are all first born. So the earlier theory regarding "womb gay" likely couldn't work.

[@Izumiisasian]

Asexuality means that you do not want to have sex or have any sexual relationships.

[@Ankku98]

​@@Izumiisasian it doesnt always mean that. Some asexuals may want sex etc. Or they may want it quite rarely etc.

[@pika2031]

​@@Ankku98the whole point of asexual is no desire for sex, they may share bond or even love but they don't desire sex

[@junjifrito]

People are made different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it.

[@the-unibrow-kid3728]

People are shaped throughout life and experience too, but some people can be born with differences

[@RajiivOfficial]

Exactly

[@homienathanial4002]

facts

[@charstar13]

true. but i don't think it is "different" in general but different than you. it is quite normal and in our human biology to love. we cant help who we love. :)

[@_Spider4]

Says who I don't have to respect anyone but Jesus and God I can talk and disrespect anyone I want

[@nabeelhussainn]

The genetic advantage actual makes alot of sense, when you think about it when you see in animals or any species that have big packs they're organized, like how in bees you have workers and warriors, so from that perspective heterosexuals in the family might be the workers and the homosexuals maybe something like a gatekeeper, always helping keep things simple and tidy. But I think environmental factors also influence us being homosexual, but then again there are alot of factors that influence it and I'm excited for where these studies take us.

[@Grey-Fox_94]

Well, while there are other angles, i can definitely say that we are born this way because looking back on my childhood, i noticed was attracted girls, but men seemed to have got my attention much more. Things became quite clear once i hit age 16, that i was not straight, and the best part is that i was raised in a christian home and a very homophobic country and was even a little homohobic myself. You could imagine my shock 😅

[@damianop100]

From what I see and have studied in history, homosexuality has not resulted in lower reproductive fitness. Many many homosexual men and women have reproduced. Reproduction is aided by social pressure and quite often homosexuals have cooperated. The point being, homosexuality in theory would lead us to conclude lower reproductive effect but in fact this has not actually been the case, not in general. Yes, a certain percentage of homosexuals will remain lifetime celibates or engage in homosexual sex, but throughout history many many have indeed reproduced.

[@quidproquo82]

I did not get this from the documentary. I think she's arguing that there is a societal benefit from having more adults who can help raise children. Gay people without children could devote their resources to helping raise nephew.

[@damianop100]

+@@quidproquo82 Yes, my point was not covered in this talk but is a response to the idea the speaker broached, that in theory we would expect to see lower reproductive fitness in homosexuals, my point being that yes, in theory we would expect such, but in practice homosexuals have throughout history widely participated in reproduction, regardless of their sexual preference.

[@archraskal]

@@damianop100 You're right about all you've said. Examples of this are; James Hormel, the food manufacturer, has 5 kids, Meredith Baxter, the actress, has 5 children of her own. All their kids are biologically theres. There are many other examples if people would care to research it.

[@sadrien]

Just as many gay people are driven to produce children regardless of their recreational sex preferences. And better yet, they are more apt to wait until they are in a strategically good situation to have children.

[@oliverianmaikki]

@@damianop100 You misinterpret what she means when she says that. From a genetic point of view, being homosexual offers no advantage to reproduction. She isn't saying it doesn't/won't/can't happen. She is saying being homosexual goes directly against the idea of reproducing. Yes, it will happen anyways, but she was not saying that it wouldn't.

[@NotSoCrazyNinja]

Here's my take as a gay man who has spent a lot of time trying to figure out "why" I'm gay. Obviously, I was born this way. I have always had an attraction to males. In my case, inside, I kind of feel like what I suspect a woman would feel like. I don't consider myself trans and I don't live a life "as a female", but I don't feel like a male inside. I enjoy many things considered feminine. Always have. I have no problem crossdressing, but I don't. It's kind of hard to explain in text. Of course, I'm also not your "typical" gay man. I'm actually rather middle-of-the-road sexually. I have attraction to men, women, and trans people. The attraction, however, is different between them all. For men, there is a romantic attraction as well as sexual. I want a man to hug and kiss and love and be with and to, have fun with me. I want to be embraced by men. For women, yes, I can be sexually attracted, but there is no romantic attraction. It's loveless. Just fun and pleasurable. I can be friends with women, but I can't be a lover or husband to a woman. I can never provide that love they seek. For trans, it depends on the situation. For me, it's weird existing because on the inside I almost feel like a woman, but on the outside, I am a man, and all these male hormones influence my appearance and attitude to some degree. I have remained single for over a decade simply because I can't find anyone that I can tolerate, that can tolerate me, and who can love me for who I am. I am lonely, but there is not much out there for me. I am part of a small portion of the population. If you're straight and think finding a date is hard, try reducing the available dates by a factor of ten and add in societal pressure and stigma and family pressure from religion and the fact that it seems virtually all "gay dating" sites and apps are mostly aimed at "hookups", and it gets depressing. I will probably be forever alone. I didn't choose this sexuality. I didn't choose these circumstances. I do get tired of hearing people trying to make it out that homosexuality is a choice or some kind of mental illness. I also get tired of hearing people suggest I'm going to be tormented for all of eternity "for my sins". If there is a god and that god hates homosexuals and that god created homosexuals, that is not a god I will ever follow. It takes a special kind of evil to create what you despise then command everyone else to also hate on what you created.

[@noone1602]

Awww I understand! I hope everything is alright now! Have you found anyone??

[@the-unibrow-kid3728]

I understand this a lot, made sense of things much better

[@seyiomonigho9894]

😓😓First of all 🙏🙏🙏 If is the same God I know u are talking about then, one thing I can assure is God did not create anyone to hate or despise them neither did he command anyone to hate anybody. Wat he hates is sin because he knows that's wat the enemy capitalizes on to destroy lives. Those people that suggest u are going to be tormented for all yours sins are humans too not God 🙏 I also belief their true intentions were not to make u feel judged I hope one day u decide to have a personal relationship with him and I also hope u find peace too 🙏🙏

[@silg7262]

Evolution does not necessarily favor heterosexuality. That's oversimplified. Evolution favors what propagates your genes. If you can help your siblings raise those children and their genes are past on better because of your help, then there is an evolutionary advantage. The being born gay thing also makes sense evolutionarily because of you only have one child and that child is gay and doesn't have children then you don't pass on your genes, but of you have at least one straight child after that it makes more sense to have gay children to help this siblings. This video also completely ignores bi-sexuality and gay women.

[@Bahamuttiamat]

what you speak is nonsensical. Evolution favors heterosexuality. To say otherwise is idiotic. Can't evolve if the species end with you! Socially, gay's might have value but not biologically because they cannot mate. Stop conflated two completely different topics.

[@silg7262]

@R RQ Right, okay. You've just shown me that I should stop replying to you. Clearly you're not interested in listening. I really hope that someone shows you why your position is incorrect and harmful. It must suck going through life being so angry at people who are different from your perceived notion of "correctness". Especially when those people aren't hurting anyone, unlike your strawman examples of cancer murder rape incest and so forth. I will however add one more note. That is STDs are only more common because many people haven't been taught how to use proper protection. And I'm not sure why you think pedophilia is higher among lgbtqia+ people. It's not. Other than that it's not really worth my time continuing to point out the fallacies and incorrect statements you make when you're not willing to even reexamine your position. Goodbye. Have a nice life.

[@147edge4]

@R RQ I'm in the LGBT community, although I'm not gay. I could answer that question for you; They don't. The majority of gays don't hate straight guys, anyways. In any large group; you're bound to run into one or two extremists whom distaste anyone who's not exactly like them in some way.

[@147edge4]

@R RQ It's called being trans and aromantic-?? Also, I'm not wrong. Because no gays I've met have been like that. Either your making things up, or you hung around the worst people, ever.

[@Bahamuttiamat]

@R RQ, Ironic how those that preach openness and tolerance switch when your views don't necessarily line up with theirs. Happy to hear you've arrived at a better place.

[@Raw-Truth-Now]

Great analysis, thanks!