What Medical Schools Look for in Applicants & What they Should Look For: A Professor Explains

[@cathipa]

10:49 100% correct! Most of the new providers I have worked with and some PA students I have taught do not have any clue how to talk to people, relate to the average person and deescalate volatile situations. Best work experience I had prior to going into the medical field was working retail and being a waitress.

[@balticsunday7557]

Started my undergraduate education at 26… Prior to that I designed agricultural irrigation systems and traveled around my rural state visiting my customers. Mostly postponed my college education because I obtained a GED (high school drop out) and lacked direction. During my interviews (medical school as well as residency) I’d occasionally get the question “what are you most proud of?”… Without hesitation I’d always say, “graduating college, it was never in the cards for me.” I’ve checked all of “their” boxes; good MCAT, good GPA, research, publications, solid STEP score, and good evaluations. Reward, matched my number one in neurology. I’ve obtained little personal benefit from their checklist. My patients benefit from everything pre-formal education. Systems broken, but thankfully it hasn’t broken me.

[@brandonchapoton2262]

Good to hear. Keep at it, my friend.

[@davidmasiak3060]

Having retired after nearly 40 years as a successful and respected CLINICAL cardiologist, I sometimes think that I would not be considered for admission to medical school in the modern era. Needing to work after classes and labs to put myself through college, I did not have the luxury of volunteering to do meaningless research or traveling to a third world country to dig water wells. My personal opinion- measures of cognitive ability (standardized testing and college performance) and some measure of motivation/work ethic.

[@janiceperkins4340]

Years ago, back in the day, I was a Medic, which doesn't matter 🤷‍♀️ I am very concerned that many K-12 Schools are no longer administering Standardized Test, in many States they no longer assign letter grades. Scarier Yet, some states no longer allow students to be held back to repeat a grade!!! Such as COMMIEFORMIA!😢😢

[@4eversearch]

Dr Prasad is such a gem, vanishingly rare nowadays, I listen to all of his videos, and read all of his essays on Sensible medicine . These should be a required reading for med trainees, to be discussed in ethic class. I can dream, can’t I?😂 I am a retired MD, after> 30 of practice; each of Dr Prasad’s words ring true for me

[@richardtardo5170]

So good to see sanity and reality.

[@sebucwerd]

Vinay, this was fresh air for someone who applied multiple times with a 523/3.96. The laundry list of activities needed today rewards people who embellish, exaggerate, and lie, *selecting* for dishonesty. It provides subjective measures that facilitate nepotism and other unfair admissions practices, which create stark bimodal distributions on exam scores. In academic medicine, it's a case of a few good apples. Not everyone should be a doctor, but the mentality that anyone can be is doing serious long term damage to the institution of medicine. And the people responsible aren't going to suffer. I'm now part of the research hustle, pumping out inane cargo cult imitations of science nobody will read so I can get a good residency and my mentors can can get a promotion. Science has been so corrupted by careerists it is essentially a make-work program for nerds and people who take a pay cut for prestige.

[@TheRealHempress]

I'm not a medical intern or in medical school whatsoever .. just a normal person - and your comment rings very true to me from what I have seen of the present day "medical establishment". No one on my side trusts doctors or scientist "experts" anymore so I can only imagine the hell you ( well meaning) students must be going through!

[@jaycarver4886]

@@TheRealHempress I never had much use for doctors because I've always been healthy. Have no respect for them after the way they acted during covid. Sheep who can't think for themselves and go along just to keep their income. Their cover was blown. What happened to "First do no harm?"

[@TheRealHempress]

@@jaycarver4886 You are part of the majority and because of your health, dodged the bullet - the slogan is really "treat the condition, not cure it" Vinay is so good to reveal the truth from the other side!

[@4eversearch]

⁠@@jaycarver4886 they were not sheep unable to think, they knowingly did what they did, so do not compare them for innocent creatures😂

[@jaycarver4886]

@@4eversearch OK. I can agree about that.

[@PsalmS-vi8zl]

Doc, I've been overseas a number of times to serve the poor - I'm not a medical person. In fact, I have 1 semester of college. There is an application process to go through, which includes sending questions to your references - such as "does this person have a servant's heart?" Perhaps before starting the first year of med school, the students should be required to go serve in a poor area of the city for a month, feeding and clothing the homeless in soup kitchens and shelters, helping connect people with resources, getting to know the "forgotten man." I think this would help future docs develop some insight into a world they have little to no experience with and I think it would help them develop humility.

[@jaycarver4886]

Excellent idea. Not a month but six or twelve.

[@kcmgfarm2389]

I've never watched one of your videos that disappointed. This one is no different. I'm not in medical field but think you make excellent points about entrance criteria.

[@justinburch]

I had a fellow student who wanted to be a doctor. By every standard I can think of she was a perfect fit. The only drawback I could see to her is she had been raised in a poor family and they could not afford for her to have orthodontic work done. She had crooked teeth and an underbite. After she got passed over, again, I went and looked at all the pictures of the incoming medical students for the past ten years. I noticed ALL of them, every single one, was physically attractive with symmetric features and straight teeth. Not stunningly handsome but definitely far better looking on the whole than any other random cluster of 100.

[@flyingcheff]

I adore even more, every episode. I've only ever been accepted to any program/school I was interested in (and waitressed my way through every scholarship). I finally chose aeronautical engineering - in particular, how flying is helpful to humanity - and off I went. I can't imagine having to plow through a bunch of hollow BS to participate in a contributive science. What a load. Thanks Vinay

[@cheryljohnson2097]

Vinay, your observations and critique of issues of the day are so true. I enjoy your podcast so much and I hope someday you are invited to something "bigger" to help our society.

[@tylerbradshaw7957]

"It's a luxury to be able to spend your free time as a college student making a bull**** organization". I switched my focus from pre-med to physics because of this. I was not from a wealthy family and had to work through college. I saw many students from wealthy families who didn't have to work -- who I blew out of the water on test scores -- accumulate a mile-long resume with volunteer and research experiences, and I knew I couldn't compete on that front.

[@dorothypugh2614]

This makes great sense! You have described the characteristics of the ideal scientist, actually, one who will strive to develop a high-quality hypothesis instead of just breezing on to the mechanics of collecting data and plugging it into a t-test (whether or not it's appropriate). A good internist, especially, uses these skills and attitudes to figure out what is really going on with patients rather than processing them bureaucratically. And I think it takes real humility to publish an honest case history, which is valuable often for the mistakes it reveals. One that sticks in my mind was an account of a team taking several weeks to diagnose a patient who had thyroid storm, even subjecting her to a CT scan, because they felt that they were forbidden to do screening TSH tests under the new rules, and that patient had supposedly showed no identifying signs and symptoms of thyroid disease!

[@thatbossguy123]

Current medical student here. You should see some of the bs inserted into our curriculum by medical education deans and office at my school….

[@sebucwerd]

It's wild, isn't it?

[@jaycarver4886]

​​@@thatbossguy123 Can you elaborate? Btw, do you learn anything about diet and nutrition or the power of fasting? I imagine not. Fasting For Survival Lecture Dr. Pradip Jamnadas The Galen Foundation

[@grthrndowl]

Hi.. as per my above comment… I was wondering, as someone who is now retired, what are they teaching re. The human immune system these days? Please check out Dr. Suzanne Humphrey’s book‘Dissolving Illusions’… a must read for all med students in my (possibly insignificant) opinion. Best of Luck to you!! Industry has so corrupted academia that unless one thinks independently enough to seek out books published by pioneers who’s reputations and ability to practice have been destroyed within the system, one can never learn the true history of medicine.

[@grthrndowl]

@@jaycarver4886I heard that in some states, you can’t practice Nutrition without a license in nutrition …even if you’re a doctor

[@grthrndowl]

I tried to recommend a book and my comment got deleted… as I said academia so corrupted by industry that a true education is impossible without a lot of extra reading…wish I could recommend the book…but KZbin won’t let me… I’ll try again after this….

[@luke53285]

Hey, I've applied to med school 3x. I'm in the 90th percentile for most scores with a 3.7gpa. I have been turned down each time. In an interview once with the Dean of a med school he told me I was exactly what they wanted there. I got waitlisted. This professor emailed me and instructed me what to do and when to have the best odds. In the end I was still passed over. This school used the mmi model and several of the people I was with ended up getting in, in spite of clearly lacking critical skills in research. I was heart broken. I may try again but for now I am making a lot more as an engineer

[@gilrose12345]

Brilliant and brutally honest!

[@SeemaPolicepatil]

Awesome! Let’s approach the medical school interview committee and suggest some of these ideas!

[@cynthiapaliotta7760]

Retired RN here. I see my primary HCP annually, pretty much to have routine blood work and my scripts renewed. Haven't had an actual physical exam since we relocated to NC in 2019. My previous doc was very thorough, old school. On levothyroxin for decades, current doc never even palpates my thyroid. Just checks boxes on the laptop. No, I haven't fallen in the past 3 months. Yes, I feel safe at home, not that i would confide in you if I didn't. Don't be surprised when patients turn to WebMD for help. Or when they are reluctant to sign an advance directive. We don't trust medical professionals any more.

[@ManikasKathern]

Love your attitude about this bag and not caring about what people will say. kislux You are right keep your head up and no your priorities.

[@danielcrummett7293]

Paul Farmer. I think the most important criteria in making a good physician is the desire and fascination of medicine. Too many students go into medicine with a lukewarm approach and then rarely serve as a clinician. Interestingly, my desire to be a good physician was from watching Marcus Welby M.D. My med school interviewers thought I was a bit odd but one pursued why Welby was so fascinating and we ended up discussing several episodes including diagnoses, treatment and social issues. I was accepted and practiced primary care for 40 years in the Duke system.

[@vic6695]

Great insight Dr. Prasad. When you spoke of attending physicians, it took me back to when i was a pharmacy resident at a V.A. near you. We were on medicine attending rounds when a need student asked him a question regarding a lab test or something similar (this was 40 years ago). She was really smart, but a little soft spoken. I remember being appalled and embarrassed for her when the old attending curmudgeon just berated her in front of everyone on why she would ask such a question. She didn't say much and just took it (nothing else she could do). After rounds I saw her and knew she'd been crying. I tried to console her a bit, but the damage had been done. I surely hope she went in to a successful medical career.

[@randyalanko4903]

Absolutely agree with your points. All I had to go on when I applied was grades and MCAT. I grew up working class, no contacts, little money, state regional school. I had no way to do so many of the things currently (or then-almost 50 years ago) desired. I was asked in my interview if I'd volunteered anywhere in a hospital or some such. As I mentally envisioned being a candy striper I responded that I had to work summers to afford school. I did some attempted research, but I hated being stuck in the lab until 2AM, yes, pipetting! BTW, another student in my class ascertained there were 3 working class med students out of 125. And this was in 1978.

[@reginamemoriesforever-vc8ql]

Stellar video Vinay! ❤

[@walterbortz355]

I largely agree with thoughts here. However I disagree that delay in enrolling in medical school is harmful. I took several years off after graduating from college. These years were spent traveling and working. This time created a mature perspective invaluable informing my motivation to approach the medical profession. I am thankful to have made this decision.

[@goderm1]

Thank you for sharing this. Agree so much misguided hoops to jump thru when being a good clinical doctor amounts to your interest in this, wanting to be of ethical service to people, cognitive ability,and ability to work long hours & grit. Much fewer hoops & years to be nurse practitioner.

[@keithdelaere4625]

Dr Prasad…well said. We have a growing shortage of physicians in our country and I struggle to understand why we don’t build more capacity in our MD and DO school system in our country. There are sooo many capable young people who don’t get in to these schools and move on to a different career. What can be done to change this?

[@wallihaley5194]

Lawyer here… I could hardly wrap my head around the “logic games” section of the LSAT, but scored very high on the “logical reasoning” and other sections of the test. Just reading the logic games questions sent me into a tailspin. (For example, a question would come across like this “Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice lived on an island that had five sides. Bob and Carol could never be on the same side of the island unless George was there. Where was Alice on Thursday?” I am obviously making this up to try and illustrate how crazy these problems appeared to me, but you get the idea). Interestingly, I noticed that men who tried the logic games (who weren’t even applying to law school) intuitively knew how to approach those problems, for example, my ex-husband pointed out that drawing a map would lead to the answer for those types of questions. But I couldn’t do that fast enough to finish the other sections of the test. That said, I passed the bar exam on the first try with no problem with a high score in under the allotted time. In real life there was little correlation between the scores and the proficiency of the lawyer in practice.

[@mantasr]

Someone who worked as a paramedic would be GOLDEN

[@janiceperkins4340]

Ahh😇 The Golden Hour! 🙂

[@Maddawg31415]

You’d think so. I’m a medic and barely got in. Applied to 30 schools- only one took me with average GPA and MCAT. And that’s nice, but I believe I should’ve got more love from schools despite the limited research gig

[@airman122469]

“Activist” But only if you’re an activist on the “right” side.

[@alunjones3860]

Only if you push the establishment position or anything left wing. If you're a conservative activist, then they'll drop you like a hot potato.

[@ericaeli3807]

See how far a pro life kid gets applying for med school

[@enargovesker3507]

Great job Dr. Patel!!

[@victoriabaldwin5265]

Working as a bartender during my undergrad saving for medical school made me better to relate to the people than anything else.

[@patricasmyth4359]

Medicine is a service industry. The problem is that the vendors are medical administrators and the customers are the insurance companies. Doctors and patients are merely cogs in the wheel.

[@grthrndowl]

Hi Dr. Prasad.. I am concerned that they are not teaching re. The human immune system as I learned it… I am now retired… med students dont seem to think we have any ability to fight disease apart from synthetic immunization… concerning indeed!

[@ericaeli3807]

Uh, how do you think the immune system works? It is total bullshit “med student don’t seem to think we have any ability to fight infections.” We take care of immunocompromised patients very differently than non immunocompromised because we know normal people have a normal immune system and chemo patients don’t. There is no such thing as “synthetic immunity.” That is a very bizarre phrase. There is passive immunity that you can get from IVIG but that has almost nothing to do with vaccines. Do you even know a B cell from a T cell? Explain the difference between cellular and humoral immunity? If not then kindly stop the BS.

[@carrotsintherabbithole4748]

Add a test that is like a Milgram test but less dramatic, to weed out the totally conformist.

[@OhSoddit]

We just had one (covid vaccinations), only it will prove to be MORE dramatic !!

[@TheOHenry666]

Medical admissions are all about choosing the most conformist people possible.

[@patricklaureys9238]

Vinay getting so excited he almost breaks his studio material, at 17'. 😅 Thank you Vinay, I sent this vid to my son, who wants to go to Med School in a few years.

[@thomassuerth7683]

Such lucid thinking, as always. Thank you Vinay.

[@hotbutterwell194]

May commonsense prevail. Thank you Dr. Vinay Prasad.

[@jaycarver4886]

How about producing doctors that are actually healers instead of just medication managers?

[@Lumpycheeses]

Medication not being the answer requires patients to also put in the effort to change their lifestyle. For example, my mother’s blood pressure requires 3 different medications but that could be decreased to 1 or 0 with diet and exercise.

[@elishevajones6730]

​, doctors need to be educated regarding the healing impact of proper nutrition. Lots of people do not know how to eat healthily and furthermore, they don't know that this can heal them.

[@jaycarver4886]

@@elishevajones6730 Absolutely. Food is medicine, but only if it's real food and not the lab produced Frankenfood that most people eat.

[@TheRealHempress]

@@Lumpycheeses The problem is, the "medication" causes even MORE damage - even causes most of the damage to begin with. Everyone is wising up to this fact.

[@JWSedona]

Amen!

[@mkinvincible]

Vinay, Please talk about the useless yearly modules that we have to do at the hospitals. A bunch of BS with no evidence behind.

[@franciscosaavedra5848]

As with much of the rest of the globe (e.g., Germany and Mexico), I believe that students should pursue medical studies following high school. It is irrational and a waste of time to require attending college in order to be admitted to medical school.

[@Burmeseti]

Although my passion is helping people live their best life through good health, I found the application process absolutely BS. As you pointed out, most of these requirements won't actually make a good physician. That and the 8+ years of total part secondary education and high tuition. Instead, I chose engineering. Happy to design and troubleshoot machinery systems but definitely would find it more fulfilling to help so many in need.

[@samiraguccione7242]

Vinay, thanks for coming out and saying what needs to be heard. I totally agree with you. The LSAT logic test should be part of medical school entrance exam. Medical ethics questions with 4-5 sentence essay response is meaningful. publication is not necessary. why loose time when you need to be in school for years to come ? Gas in the tank is a must before the start of medical school. I do believe the current entrance requirements is desinged for the children of the elite and connected, who are cluless about struggles of real life patients they are to serve. Activism ? are you joking? The future doctors are to follow blindly , covid vaccination for all ? No doctor can ask questions or admit mRNA vaccination has harmed some patients ? For sure, critical thinking, humility, ability to analyse papers to filter out the published B.S. papers is more important. Thank you Vinay.

[@montyzarr1866]

I wish I had a mentor like you! Glad I found your channel :,) ❤

[@lesjchristianson]

Psychiatrist and former grocery bag boy here! Could not agree more.

[@lydiajoymcdowell-davis3390]

I love this video! It gets really good at the end. 😂

[@brandonchapoton2262]

Dr. Paul Farmer is the Mountains Beyond Mountains doc. Im about to start listening to this audobook

[@mantasr]

Lab experience is CRAZY for med school - I'd rather anyone who did surveys even.

[@rogacz25]

"the curriculum beats it out of people." Bingo. Every functional human can learn to think critically, but it needs to be demanded of them by the people around them, especially their mentors, and the non critical thinking needs to be called out. Demanding this in the moment is uncomfortable but should be done out of a sense of altruism. You're doing great work, doc!

[@Maddawg31415]

It was crazy. I got into only one med school in 2022. Applied to 30- 3 interviews, one acceptance off the WL. 80 hrs of lab research, 3.6 GPA, 512 MCAT. No pubs, no advocacy. I didn’t play the game and it bit me. The saving grace was my extensive clinical work in paramedicine- 13k hrs. But comment on that, Dr. Prasad. Should applicants be getting clinical experience in high numbers?

[@CoachDodderidge]

Amazing insights

[@AndreaSlavin-w7r]

I would love Dr. Prasad’s opinion on Dr. Steven Rosenberg at NCI. He’s another highly touted doctor just like Fauci.

[@icarus167]

Agree with a lot of this. However, I believe the MCAT is quite a robust test. It has quite good predictive value in terms of STEP and medical school performance. Could it be better? Sure, but we're talking about marginal improvements. If you dissect the MCAT in more detail, you will realize it's actually more of an IQ test. Sure there are plenty of knowledge-based questions, but basic critical thinking will get you far. Pre-2015 MCAT, however, was terrible as it was more of a knowledge test. I'd encourage you to do a deeper dive into the modern MCAT.

[@katdunleavey]

I've always thought that waiting tables is great prep for dealing with patients, especially difficult ones. My daughter waited tables part-time and paid for her own room and board during college. Waiting tables paid much more than working at the hospital, but hopefully it won't be held against her. She graduated magna cum laude with zero student loans.

[@Spikychari]

Current medical student here as well. Dr. Prasad could you make a video on how you would recommend students decide their specialty?

[@thecuttinggardener361]

I was at OHSU working in the ED when you were there. Small world.

[@nancienordwick4169]

Maybe all docs need to start out at a federal hospital with only basic meds on the formulary so they can learn what is important.

[@olibertosoto5470]

Some test of cognitive ability! Yes! Lab research! Nah! Real life experience, and I don't mean in a clean, comfortable bubble! Yep!

[@caseygodfrey695]

This is awesome, I like you, you’re awesome.

[@hastyfellow5201]

Camera crisp af...

[@JohnQGuitar]

Hey Dr. P, As a primary care physician looking for factual information, can you put together a quick review of the new vaccine recommendation and the proof that it will protect the population as per any appropriate medical studies already conducted? I'm especially interested in low-risk groups and particularly the 6-month plus age group. Is there a proven risk-benefit analysis?

[@irenenavarrette1918]

Common sense confuses them Dr. Prasad..😅 ❤

[@JWSedona]

Do you speak on other channels? I would love to have you speak for us.

[@hairyott3rr]

Optimistic of you to imagine there is a possibility of the institutions escaping their ideological capture. I hope, but strongly doubt, absent the totally catastrophic collapse of it all, which maybe we need at this point.

[@Jay-kk3dv]

Its clear that the people who understand human health are nowhere to be found. Pre-med should be real health knowledge and concepts, not understanding isomers and thin lens physics lmao

[@karenliu529]

If clinics don't take money from pharmas, how do pharmas run clinical trials?....

[@AndreaSlavin-w7r]

I would love to know how the C-T study mentioned in this video received IRB approval?

[@flyingcheff]

Required viewing for all med students or any advanced academia

[@janiceperkins4340]

Yep, and people think I'm nuts when I say doctors couldn't do proper CPR if their life depended on it 😯🙄😊

[@Theabok853]

Why do you think with people living longer and work up in their 80 ,besides the covid affecting that longevity ,why late medical entrance is of negative impact on the country if there is added value of maturity/wisdom /experience age?

[@janedough6575]

I would tell you what I think but I’d probably get time out again 😕

[@FishBoneD14]

Paul Farmer.

[@alvinchen6262]

Paul Farmer

[@KratostheThird]

You couldn’t pay me to be a medical student.

[@stonerubber]

Reachers, strivers, and conformists.

[@sciencesimplified3890]

I disagree, all those subjective qualities are just manipulated in a game for admissions. I knew premeds who were angels on paper however literal psychopaths who've never heard of a CAC score, APOE4 or cfDNA. Also, knowing the "right answer" is its probably moral to "donate to 3rd world countries" doesn't mean you aren't mean to nurses and consistently do immoral things because you know you can get away with it without consequences. However MCAT/GPA are at least objective metrics that are harder to manipulate, but in medicine you have to RECALL in parallel large volumes of information, rather than just recognizing what's mentioned on answer choice C. I wish there was a way to assess someones ability to remember a random fact they heard once around 7 years ago, I think that would be helpful in medicine but there's no way to test for that. Subjective qualities will always be comprehensively faked and manipulated by premed students

[@ham9187]

Medicine is challenging cognitively. The only acceptance criteria should be cognitive. The end.

[@johnandmegh]

Medicine is also challenging to a person’s ethics and to their temperament, and I think it’s fair to consider those factors when evaluating who is likely to be successful as a future practicing physician. Dr. Prasad is correct about criticisms of the nonsense clubs and made-up papers and all of that, but I don’t think that means that all assessment of a person’s character and personality must be thrown out

[@ham9187]

@@johnandmegh that’s too soft of a requirement. Unless there is an objective test I would shy away, it will be gamed.

[@PeteQuad]

Upper class gatekeepers.

[@robertm2608]

If you start stream lining medical school, interniship, residency and fellowship you will be short changing medical education and more mistakes will be made. Residency hours are now limited to 80 hours/week, whereas in the past 120 hours/ week was not uncommon. I have personal experience with that having completed neurology residency 25 years ago. That translates to 1/3 less training exposure. The types of medical students that are being let in now do not want to work, long hours, it is too hard, it infers with cell phones and social media. The type of medical students that are selected are chosen by a political system that too often selects for a social/political belief system that has nothing to do with critical thinking. Medical school COVID responses and transgender issues is a perfect example of how evidence based teaching has been thrown out the windpw.

[@Maddawg31415]

I understand it the hour cuts are harmful, but we can’t have residents being chronically sleep deprived and losing years off their life expectancy doing 120 hr weeks. This ain’t no House of God. So if the solution is extending residency duration longer to makeup this hour deficit and elevating resident pay/reducing med school cost, then great. But we can’t be having residents churning out triple digit hours/week making sub-minimum wage hourly. Especially now that residents are forming unions

[@spojce9]

my suggestion is if you're smart avoid this bullshit and go into finance to get to where you want $ much more quickly

[@jackjrabbit]

Lol convince successful mathematics and physics graduates to go to medical school.

[@ccampbell163445]

Paul Farmer