What Percentage Should You Have Combat?

[@Putoaduh]

I find this question kind of interesting because in my games, combat occurs as much as the players encite it. There's almost always an option to get out of combat by negotiating. There's the option to stay in town and talk to npcs instead of dungeon delving. I've always put combat at the players' discretion.

[@DDHomebrew]

Exactly. That's why creating a strict percentage is a false distinction. It depends on the players, GM and type of game.

[@morrigankasa570]

My ideal/preferred ratio is 20% Combat, 30% Lore/Exploration, 15% Roleplay/Speaking, 15% Travel, and 20% Shopping/Downtime Activities.

[@DDHomebrew]

As long as your group agrees, go for it.

[@bardrasmussen9550]

It really changes with the ebb and flow of the game. We have sessions with no combat, and also sessions that run from the one combat encounter to the next....

[@DDHomebrew]

Me too.

[@cartert2]

I think a lot of players & DM’s have forgot that they can always run away from combat…you don’t have to stand and slug it out. The DM can have the monsters to run away after they suffer heavy losses or lose so many hit points. Gone is the use of morale rolls that helped to decide whether the monster surrenders or flees, continues to fight, or even fights until killed. This and the group initiative helped speed up combat and was baked into the rules along with the advice that all encounters do not have to be combat and combat can be broken off by either side whenever they choose.

[@DDHomebrew]

You are preaching to the choir my friend! When I started running 5E and had monsters run away or surrender and explained that their morale was broken, most players had never encountered such a thing. And now some of those players who are GMing routinely use that system. Because it makes sense and it keeps things moving.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

I think players don't want to run away from combat because they want to be heroic. The best battles are the close ones.

[@cartert2]

@@sleepinggiant4062 Maybe…but then a lot of players bitch about combat taking too long and/or being too deadly. This is when the group initiative, monster morale checks and the players or DM deciding to run away helps to come into play. If the players doesn’t want their PC’s to risk death then retreat to allow your PC’s the chance to fight another day. Also as a DM you should understand that the monsters can break off combat as well especially if the players are just going to walk through your encounter. Why go through 30 minutes of a one sided combat? Just have the monsters to surrender or run away, the PC’s still defeat the NPC’s/monsters, then it’s back to the narrative.

[@gentleandkind]

This week we had this happen at my table. The bard sneaked into the windmill to find the papers while the Barb/Druid distracted the Wood Woad. Paper secured, the PCs decided to get out as quickly as they could. In a frantic scramble to escape, the bard cast Phantasmal Force as a raging fire on the Wood Woad - causing it use its turn to run away! A good fight, players initiated the exit, and the mob left them to it as they fled from a phantasmal fire.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

@@cartert2 - I do understand, and do that with monsters. I was only speaking on why the players don't run. I rarely have the enemy surrender. The players do not like dealing with that moral complication.

[@shadomain7918]

Good video, KR, I agree that there isn't really a right answer, it's whatever your group prefers. If your group is split, I think it's best to discuss that before the campaign starts. Just let them know that you'll need to compromise, some sessions might be ehavier into social, some might be heavier combat. That way if someone strongly disagrees they can find another table.

[@DDHomebrew]

I've warned a table that "tonight's game could be all role play/social encounters" and they've told me "as long as it's interesting!" Or even "good, because we've got all sorts of ideas."

[@carlosvillanueva8530]

I've had one person who would fight a stop sign if they encountered one, in a group that loved social interaction, and exploration. One day he thought that he was leading the group into a five person encounter to only find himself alone. After being Swiss cheesed by a mated pair of Manticore he ran back to the party. In a good sand box if you present the party with exploration, they will create the social interactions, puzzles and fighting encounters on their own. Just be imaginative, give them things not found in the monster manuals that will make them deep dive into their world. Imagine how they will react to Dandelion Fairie so tiny they drift on the wind like dandelion seeds, their head of hair giving them lift. Only to find that the fairy are fleeing their towns that were destroyed by giants, and that your party are those giants.

[@DDHomebrew]

Great idea on the fairies! And you're exactly right: make exploration interesting and the players will come along.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

D&D is a very combat centric game. When I go three sessions without a combat, I tend to get cranky. But I don't need a combat every session.

[@DDHomebrew]

I get it. You have to read the table.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

@@DDHomebrew - Exactly. But I think many are happy just playing and would not say anything at the table. This is more of a feedback thing.

[@DDHomebrew]

@@sleepinggiant4062 I don't like repetitive or boring combat, whereas I really like combat that is tactically challenging.

[@BigCowProductions]

It naturally has fallen into about 15% for me 😅 Though I would, and have, run very large dungeons that last multiple sessions. I tend to have fewer but more impactful battles, and leaving other types of simpler combat relegated to Skill Challenges. But my guys tend to like the social and exploration pillars a lot. They like delving into NPCs and the political and social intrigue. Notion helps me keep track of things really well, too. I can have 250+ Unique (and, I do haha) NPCs because I'm able to sort them out so easily with Notion. Sometimes I would like more fights, but I like to run pacing and the adventures around what the players are doing; I move at their pace. And, I can always attack you in a town 😅 My players know to not feel safe, ever, EVEN WITH us sometimes not having a combat in 5-8 sessions.

[@BigCowProductions]

But the 15% isn't planned, it's just how things have fallen into play. If my guys want to go search for loot and dungeons, they'll get the rewards comensurate to the challenge. The last dungeon my guys went on (they were lv 3) had like 1,100+ gold worth of stuff and coins, and some magic items. I like to reward whatever is done. If you dungeon dive, you'll tend to be more rich and have more magic items. If you invest in towns, you get social capital, favors, and friends.

[@elektronischemusik1903]

No combat in 5 sessions? Do you play with old grannies?

[@DDHomebrew]

While I might have a bit more battles than you, I totally get your approach. If players are exposed to good role play and exploration, they realize why there are three pillars! We're not playing a skirmish game.

[@DDHomebrew]

It's the risk that counts. If you go into a high level strategy session with a king and the vizier wants to blame you for things, that's a risky encounter! Same goes with figuring out puzzles: a lot of problem solving and remembering you history.

[@elektronischemusik1903]

@@DDHomebrew I can't beleive you deletet my post with the question if hey only plays with old grannies. Jesus Christ, how sensitive.

[@krispalermo8133]

Style of game, .. a.) one shots, draw index cards at random for premade characters, and the player gets an arch type to role play. b.) My past two game shop owner and more experience DMs tell new players just pick your favorite superhero and build a 10th-level PC on that. c.) Run a short 20minute to 30minute mini game to set the mood or blow off steam for the main story event. 2.) Role play vs roll play social encounters and combat. a.) Vampire is a heavy role play type of game with 1d10 dice pools adjusting social outcomes. It has combat but is faster and more lethal than stander D&D or other games. You can be at top health levels but fail a defense roll and get staked or your head remove in one 3second round of surprise. So most groups try to avoid combat. Otherwise watch a Blade movie, and you are not Blade. b.) Are we dealing with opening combat like from the movie Conan the Destroyer ? c.) Watch any show on monster hunters from Sabrine the Teenage Witch, the X-Files, Charm, or whatever Cop show/Law & Order. Opening scene of the monster attack or murder victim, the PC investigate, maybe a chase, then show down with the monster. D.) the class Barbarian the Rager. In other setting they are called Berserkers cause .. barbarian .. means uncivilized lands. We are playing a Civil setting. So they are called Rager, berserkers, or that guy with anger issues found in the nearest bar fight. Even that opera singer that goes into a verbal yelling fit and throws heavy object when things don't turn out right. 3.) Phantom of the Opera, .. Bloody Ballet. Using WotC3e rules the classes Monk and Barbarian have +10ft movement increase. Which would make them fast dancers, and hype themselves into a control Frenzy rage they throw their dance partner high in the air and spin off stage and let someone else catch them. Backstage they beat a sandbag till they come down. Feat, screaming war cry rage, lasts for 1d6 rounds + con modifier. Problem are we dealing with 6second rounds or 1minute rounds. Point being you have one of those grand opera vocalists, or you are watching a muscular heavy set grown man have an emotional break down in front of hundreds doing a wail. Even if the setting has cheap cleric magic, roll for throat tearage. How many days you .. hoars .. your voice.

[@DDHomebrew]

Those are what I call "combat-social" encounters!

[@krispalermo8133]

@@DDHomebrew Succubus with enough self-control for a chaotic evil demon not to kill her pet bards as she acts as their muse. The bard levels up and their muse Inspire skill feat for public greatness, they gain Xp, she drinks their Xp levels. Shakespear, they would drink and argue and get into fist fights over lines and how to say a given .. Word. .. to carry mood. The succubus favorite pet was turned by the Ghoul/ghast Gh'oo ul. assassin guild as a new recruit. Now she can never feed from him again, the passionate lively manic depression bard is now dead. His passions cold. Succubus is now out for revenge. Classic ? D&D ghouls didn't eat fresh kills, they left you to rot. They .. paralyze .. with infection bite. Make constitution roll or die from infection. WitC3e ghouls have high charisma to cast spells as a 4th-level sorcerer. One shot magic effect for jump scare or shock value. Then you have ghasts. Argue, one fail save throw to live or die. Or good align cleric get second saving throw to keep from rising as an undead ? Or the n/Pc rolls charisma Will the desire to live, and a voice ask them what they will trade just to .. live .. ? Undead negative spirits that inhabit on the near Ethereal and use a form of Blink to touch mortals. Undead cultists chanting to some unknown god of terrible knowledge and wisdom. Have you heard the good news. Depending on the D&D setting, vampires are like mutants in Marvel. Good news the ghouls only take people of given .. traits .. most people pray daily not to .. think .. in such a sinful manner. When the ghouls take you, you are just gone. When an evil PC takes on a number of dark side corruption points equal to wisdom score. A ghoul whispers in their ear, " You are dammed." Then the stalking game begin. I have ran some ghoul TPK stories that anger the party group where they were yelling they are not sitting through another game like that. The other half laughing in a manic manner blowing of stress from watching dice results. Quick play, 1d20, dramatic rolled 3d6. If the task is easy just roll over the DM dice result. Hard, roll under the skill stat. Exploding die result roll. If you roll 6 on d6, reroll the 1d6 for higher result outcome.

[@Frederic_S]

My games offer combat only as an option. I introduce adversaries but my players can always get around fighting them if they don't feel like it. But I don't GM 5e. In the games I play there are always a lot of non-combat skills.

[@DDHomebrew]

If you think 5E encourages combat, try Pathfinder. I don't mind so much, because I ran 3.5 for years and developed my own combat light style. But those are not skill based systems!

[@JeffreyJibson]

I play B/X or BFRPG with my daughters. My goals are for them to be away from their phones and think. It turns out my oldest prefers coming up with creative solutions and my younger prefers to talk her way out of problems. So, fighting is nearly a last result. I don't have any problems with this.

[@DDHomebrew]

So great to hear this! Not only are you letting a new generation learn about this great game, but exposing them to the cerebral side! Nice.

[@kontrarien5721]

Sounds like a dream! Combat is a fail state and should always be either a last resort or heavily stacked in the PCs favor.

[@DDHomebrew]

@@kontrarien5721 I agree.

[@Marcus-ki1en]

I think it is a compromise between the GM and the Players - and a good campaign will ebb and flow through all three pillars so everyone can enjoy their favorite part and quietly suffer through the part they don't like.

[@DDHomebrew]

Moderation is the key to life. A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

[@KILOBify]

It's such an online 5e thing to be trying to define the game by percentages of combat vs. roleplay. It's very disconnected from what actually playing a trpg is about. Pretty sure most of them advertise their games this way only because everyone else does. imo it's probably a good sign to avoid them.

[@DDHomebrew]

I get what you're saying, but let's not forget that these GM's are trying to attract players that are interested in their style, so the percentage thing is a short hand way of explaining it. And I've played a ton of on-line games where it wasn't the ratio of combat/role play that turned me off. It was the players and/or the GM.

[@ljmiller96]

I try to have about a third of the time taken up by combat. This gives players a chance to use their life-and-death skills as well as their own mystery-solving and exploration abilities. One thing that cuts the time taken by combat is when enemies realize they are being destroyed by the PCs they fail morale and retreat, run away, or make a deal if the PCs will let it happen.

[@DDHomebrew]

Morale was the key determiner in most medieval battles, and it sure helps to make battles less a slog in a game. And I tend to go close to the 1/3 battle ratio, though if we have an epic one it can take up an entire session!

[@swordsnstones]

My players decide how much... 😊

[@DDHomebrew]

Mine too. With a little help from me!

[@swordsnstones]

​@@DDHomebrewoh for sure, i give them opportunity.....they squander it lol 😊

[@DDHomebrew]

@@swordsnstones players can't resist the prospect of loot!😁

[@SageMasterRPG]

Each group has different needs. A group of murder hobos would want more combat, but another group of explorers would want as little as possible. So you have to go by the feel of the group and game.

[@DDHomebrew]

And what you like: it's good in session zero to give a sense of what the percentages could be, though not set in stone. And then adjust as you get to know your players.