What PG&E Price Hikes Mean for EVs...

[@rockelino]

CA residents: "gas is too expensive here" CA lawmakers: "thanks for the input, we will adequately raise electricity prices as well"

[@ezpoppy55]

Lawmakers don’t set utilities prices.

[@TurdFergusen]

@@ezpoppy55they set the laws which can most definitely affect rates… environmental, fire safety… on and on…. the dem utopia is not as cheap as people think

[@thespiceislife2082]

The CPUC approves the rate hikes for utilities in California. They’re another shady regulatory agency. Electricity rates and natural gas rates have shot up recently. The governor can override them, but he hasn’t felt the need.

[@matthewsweat]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX3YqYGNfMt8aLcsi=ysDMqt7rCA2vs19D

[@gabrielchow1994]

@@ezpoppy55 lawmakers approve utilities prices

[@johnbullers8647]

PG&E will probably stop the adoption of EVs in California at this rate.

[@xLopez210x]

I was just thinking the same thing. The only thing offsetting this right now is if “filling up” was the same then we’d still save in maintenance…. Maybe

[@harriettanthony7352]

"stop adoption--"? NEVER, they make money off the EV/ and never fix anything with the money taken in. This is California, land of insanity

[@douglaswatt1582]

Yes not only is there goal to disrupt the adoption of EV's but also to completely decimate any payback period for rooftop solar. These objectives I believe are linked and it's part of their effort to maintain a monopoly because if EVS are adopted at scale, people will increasingly want to make their own electricity. The monopolies can't stand that thought because that gets in the way of their billion-dollar profits.

[@Synchromesh123]

Good. My dream come true.

[@ashinigamirises]

Good

[@DSC800]

You should do a vid on California's failed EV incentive program (CVRP). They closed it last year due to lack of funding. The money is available but it is directed to the high speed rail debacle. There is no solar incentive either, almost the opposite, it doesn't make sense anymore. California, the not so green state.

[@Harrythehun]

All the solar are one issue for the grid and future grid costs. If you seldom buy electricity from the grid, you don't pay for the infrastructure. The cost must be paid somewhere and by someone or else the grid companies will go bankrupt.

[@DSC800]

@@Harrythehun yes, but California went from an overly generous NEM 1.0 to a slightly generous 2.0 and now the solar killing 3.0. They had many options, like paying 1/2 the retail rate for kwh sent to the grid for example, instead they pay 4c. They even tried to charge solar accounts $10/month per kw of solar size so this may be coming. Instead they make it so you need to buy $10k worth of batteries and it still doesn't make sense since payback went from 6 years to 15+ years on average. For the EV's, there are 13 states with tax credits and California is listed, but the don't program is not funded, so effectively they don't have a program. It's a fraud. Not only that but they penalize EV owners through registrations. Oddly, the program they use the money for is the (not high speed) rail project that produces more CO2 from cement than anything since the Hoover dam was built.

[@christophers707]

@@DSC800 Not only am I getting ripped off for electricity but have to pay special EV registration fees I tell everyone not to buy an EV now

[@josephknight3066]

Highspeed rail will have a more substantial and sustainable green impact than EVs

[@DSC800]

@@josephknight3066 Not "high" speed rail is an incredible squandering of taxpayer money. It's what happens when we have a one party rule, corrupt politicians are not held accountable and taxpayers are lied to.

[@allstarnb1]

Gas is $2.55 a gallon in SE Texas 😅 I still have a Tesla and am able to charge it at $0.11 kw/hr at any time.

[@ultrastoat3298]

But your entire grid fails when it gets cold out 😅

[@allstarnb1]

@@ultrastoat3298 I have solar and powerwalls😉

[@GetThemLyrics]

Happened once in a once in a several decade storm event.

[@allstarnb1]

@@GetThemLyrics agreed. Lots of factors lead to that. It will never happen again.

[@ultrastoat3298]

@@GetThemLyrics lol. Not several decade 😂

[@edsta714]

It amazes me that the entire process and infrastructure to explore for oil, extract oil, transport oil, refine oil, transport oil again, blend gas, transport gas, just to stick it back in the ground at a 24 hour gas station in case you roll in at 3am that itself requires electricity is somehow cheaper or equivalent than plugging in at home. Talk about subsidies!

[@Melchirobin]

Well you need to consider energy density. Oil we get from the Middle East is not subsidized by anyone but it may still end up being cheaper because of energy density and the cost of transporting electricity. It’s just easier to move oil at scale than it is to move electricity.

[@scottarseneault6601]

Georgia power overnight rate 1.7c/kwh, with fees = 6c/kwh. Fill up your model 3 for $4 to $5. If you are a commuter, that’s multiple thousands of dollars saved every year. If you include maintenance savings, you can’t buy it a cheaper vehicle.

[@ultrastoat3298]

AZ off peak rate is about $0.07

[@IanHall-s6m]

That’s wild. We also pay .53/kwh. Our regular electricity bill is $700-$900/mo without an EV

[@travisr70]

I got solar in socal before the net metering change. Only makes sense to get it now if you use enough electricity to offset cost. I got 12.24 kw solar and it covers 3 tesla and my house. Saving tens of thousands over the years not paying for gas or maintenance or electricity. Solar payback was 3.5 years.

[@fearsomebeard4290]

I have full roof of solar myself here in San Diego covers my house and two Teslas in the full net metering program.

[@AaronVets]

Do you really need 3 vehicles? 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

[@fearsomebeard4290]

@@AaronVets I do. I have two Tesla’s and a Toyota FJ cruiser for adventure

[@lucristianx]

Who did you go through?

[@travisr70]

@@AaronVets we have 4 drivers

[@lucidf8]

I could see where California energy prices where heading, so I added home solar 12 years ago, and it has more than paid for itself. Now, it easily covers the cost of my Tesla charging even though it’s a fairly small 4 Kw system. I wish I had put in a bigger system, and may upgrade to more powerful modules and a backup battery in the near future.

[@DSC800]

I added 4.5kw solar 10 years ago, so under NEM 1.0. You are allowed to increase production on an existing system up to 1 kw so last November I replaced all 16 280w panels with new QCell 320w's, so now at 5.1kw. I only paid $120 a panel but then I sold my old panels for $60 on FB, so only a couple days labor and $1k for the upgrade. The new panels are actually running 25% higher than the old production. If you can DIY it it's well worth it.

[@vadim1315]

is it 1kw or up to 10%? whichever is greater? Also what is your average production with your old system and new@@DSC800

[@vadim1315]

how much are you producing with 4kw?

[@romad275]

Well, you didn't expect the convicted felons (for murder: 8 in San Bruno and 85 in Paradise) to pay their fines out of profits or board members and upper management salaries, did you? Besides the problem is with the CPUC which is a lapdog of PG&E, SoCal Edison, and SDG&E and has never blocked a rate hike. I'm glad I left Oroville in the CPR as I now pay 11.3¢ per KwH for less than 600 KwH/month.

[@jeffmelodia2077]

I am a PG&eE customer and it definitely effects my decision on weather I drive my EV or ICE car. My level one tier is .42 per kWh. As soon as I jump to level 2 it’s .52 per kWh. At that price my ev cost more then my Subaru to drive

[@castortoutnu]

Aptera here to save the day !

[@TimeLagGaming]

Here in Washington our rates are going from 8.16 Cents to 8.79 Cents in March… don’t know if I’ll ever financially recover from this

[@kj_H65f]

NW Oregon here, we usually pay between 7-9c a kwh depending on peak usage rates/times

[@ALRinaldi]

That price is horrifying

[@Martinko_Pcik]

Those are the financial facts that make it hard to replace my Prius with any EV.

[@tapiaandy4372]

did you have to get an EV charging station at home to be eligible for the electric plan? or just VIN like you mentioned

[@TailosiveEV]

Just vin

[@fyeofyeo402]

I wonder if will go up. People who have no other ways on charging will not buy EVs if supercharging cost even more.

[@davidsnow791]

I’m in So Cal ….huge solar system at my home and at work, my charging cost zero! Hell SoCal Edison ends up owing me $800+ at the end of the year…free charging so what I am saying…FUCK the utilities

[@garywozniak7742]

How much did your solar setup cost ? Is it paid for ?

[@poneill65]

Hmm, Was that $0.25/KWh price on the EV plan the TOTAL cost,.. ... because I was shocked to notice recently that, while my PG&E overnight "rate" was supposewdly 0.12, after a bunch of other 'per KWh" fees and charges, the actual "per KWh" price was double that (pretty effing sneaky breaking down the $$$ into a basic "banner" rate and then a bunch or additive rates if you ask me!)

[@rockelino]

So at 0:52: is that a monthly estimated rate for annual?

[@whatdoesnt]

Toyota Hybrid sales in California are about to explode 😂

[@EVBud69]

It means electrical to gas price parody.

[@Cybertruck1977]

Hey Drew, I didn't even realize PG&E ev2 was up to 35 cents. I was thinking it was still around 25 which is bad enough😮. When I got my model 3 just over 3 years ago my off peak rate was 17¢. . Double in 3 years is ridiculous. Interestingly on peak three years ago was 54¢ if I remember right.

[@rockonhero3611]

Come to Europe. I pay 60 cents (€) per Kilowatt for AC and DC charging. When i bought my EV 29 cents… so this thumbnail alone blows my mind.

[@cenewton3221]

Brutal.

[@kevinscott8642]

Thank you Drew for this excellent information! It adds to the reasons I’m glad to be an investor in Aptera - and still putting in more. A lot of people aren’t yet aware that Aptera represents the future of transportation. And right now I think it could be the investment opportunity of a lifetime.

[@Carguytct]

I am with Southern California Edison. I have been paying 42 cents per kwh. It was 28 cent when I first got my Tesla in Nov, 2020.

[@rt4395]

Yeah, already been watching this happen regularly. Irvine, CA watching my family members pay $0.37/KWh.

[@dangrass]

As a PGE customer, all I can say is that this company is a disaster. They pay their CEO $50m a year, go bankrupt on a regular basis, and can't deliver energy reliably. The only solution is to have lots of solar panels...and PGE is doing their best to discourage this as well. The state of California should have taken this corrupt and incompetent company over when they went bankrupt (again) a couple of years ago. But sadly, our governor, Gavin Newsom is more interested in running for president than he is in actually solving California's problems.

[@christophers707]

Don't forget that they are so bad at maintaining their infrastructure that people literally die on a regular basis like the northern fires in 2017 and the San Bruno gas explosion in 2010.

[@schylerkelsch5656]

What a coincidence that you release this video on the day I switched electric suppliers. My new contract is for 7.6¢ / kWh for 3 months (I live in PA). Do you have the option to choose electric suppliers in CA?

[@arlenbell4376]

Just curious - what the rate after 3 months?

[@schylerkelsch5656]

@@arlenbell4376 they don’t let me know for sure until the contract is about to expire, but typically, they’ll automatically roll me into a variable rate plan starting at a rate twice what I was paying. At that point, I’ll usually switch to another 3 month contract with the lowest available fixed rate.

[@alaind831]

never heard of choice on electric or gaz suppliers... PG&E is out monopoly in (northern) CA, though there are some area with regional utilities (santa Clara near me is only 16c vs 35c I pay)

[@ronaldstephens5695]

Just another reason to get OUT of California, the state is toast, I grew up in the state, 1948 through 2016, things have ALWAYS gone down hill for the working class !!!!!!!!!!!

[@0HOON0]

It's eventually just going to be rich people and their foreign servants.

[@christophers707]

Every time I make progress in this state some new cost screws me here. I have worked my ass off here have a small business but can't get ahead when everything doubles in cost where if you aren't making 7 figures you aren't making it. By the time you save something to buy a home it will have doubled in cost. It's an eternal hamster wheel. I plan to be out of here in the next 3 years

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

Let's see if PG&E shareholders get better dividends. If they do, rate hikes were only to increase shareholder dividends.

[@alaind831]

you forgot to mention that was a 30.7% rate hike by PG&E for EVA! of course it happened 2 days after I bought a Model Y... with 4k miles now under my belt, at 34c kwh vs gaz at $4.10 Model Y in the winter is getting about 38 MPG - good but not incredible as you can get say a rav4 Hybrid and get the same MPG (thought bit smaller SUV). co-worker in Santa Clara (have their own utility) pay 16c/kw - why is PGE allowed to get away with 34c and only going up...

[@christophers707]

they have no competition therefore no incentive to reduce cost where are you going to get power from?

[@garywozniak7742]

Im not sure what tge commercial rates are but it sounds like it drive business to leave CA if their rates are going up as well.

[@irisstblhotty]

I just moved out of a rental from Roseville to buying a house in Lincoln.. I’m going through this right now. Can’t believe how much PGE is!

[@Ginger_head_Man]

Um. I’m in South Carolina, I pay $.13 per kW all day long. No special rate. Just cheap electricity all day everyday.

[@samharris82]

Check with your electricity provider for a “time of use” plan. It’s almost certainly a lot cheaper. In Georgia I went from $0.129/kWh to $0.079 in the day and $0.017 at night. It is $0.25 middle of day for 3 months in the summer on weekdays, but as you can see much cheaper the rest of the time.

[@Ginger_head_Man]

@@samharris82 I need to call and check, but their website is a bit difficult... Duke Energy. They say, for my area, they do not do it, but I did find a rate schedule for time of use, but it has steep demand charges, but low off and on peak standard rates, but use demand charges for high usage times. So if my max demand on a hot summer day is 10kw they will tack 10x$8.80 to my account because that was my highest on peak usage in a month. Seems like it is more trouble than it is worth.

[@leejanes5111]

This is why I have an order fot the L/E addition of the Aptera.

[@ugmugm3938]

I was ignorant to american electricity prices until recently….. us in Ontario Canada, peak is 14 cents CAD and down 2-5 cents off peak depending where you live.

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

It varies a lot by region, and California is generally the worst place to be.

[@MrRickMeister]

Wow!! I pay 6.73 cents a kilowatt

[@imzjustplayin]

Solar PV without batteries is cost effective in California but the install cost needs to be less than $2.50 per watt before tax incentives. The biggest cost of solar PV in the USA are soft costs which are 2/3s the cost. Materials and Labor are only 1/3 the cost of Solar PV in the USA.

[@danharold3087]

Home solar and powerwalls make sense in CA because when the sun is heating things up solar is working to locally supplement the grid. A lot can be done w/o sending a lot of power long distances. Not saying solar is a full solution but it is a good and significant one. Homes with excess solar would love to make money sending their excess power a few blocks or miles to apartment complexes and rentals w/o solar.

[@TailosiveEV]

We got a lot of people with solar and power walls but the grid ain’t getting much cheaper

[@ccibinel]

​@@TailosiveEVyou can undercut the cost of power walls substancially using lfp server rack batteries and inverters. About $7k can build a 20 kwh system - Will Prowse has good videos on it and how to ensure its code.

[@ReliableInebriationOutlet]

@@ccibineloh yeah spend a extra $40,000 to $60,000 for solar, pay taxes on that, pay insurance, registration and, yes MAINTENANCE it’s not even worth it. Do you have a ev ? Do you have solar ? Like this the shit people say when they have zero real world experience with a ev especially NOT IN CALIFORNIA, shit sucks in Michigan, with phantom drain, growing inefficiencies in winter, reduced Regen and, increased wear and tear on top of the fact you get nearly half of the epa range which you paid for. If I gotta pay $5 per 100 miles I’ll go get a cheap hybrid call it a day. Nothing inherently better about ev’s at this point in time not taking into account future promises. I’m saying this as an owner of a model 3 which also owns a 20 year old mercury that’s objectively cheaper to run. Like you can’t even argue about it, insurance and registration completely ruined any price savings. I urge you to do some math, use some logic and not just listen to Tesla dick suckers online. (Not tailosive EV he’s a great, honest, KZbinr)

[@ccibinel]

@@ReliableInebriationOutlet Net metering 3.0 largely kills home solar economics in California. Here in BC we have very basic (favorable) net metering which makes solar very good despite far less solar hours. My sisters husband does grant paperwork / energy audits for high efficiency / solar in ontario where it also makes good economic sense (~11 year breakeven on solar loan). It may be worth considering doing solar / batteries grid disconnected for EV charging and secondary heating/cooling circuits; I don't know the code implications of this in California but my friend has a similar system here in BC (currently using deep cycle marine batteries nearing end of life)

[@ReliableInebriationOutlet]

@@ccibinel I will say this, I appreciate your objective concise response, but 11 years compared to what if you don’t mind me asking ? Like break even compared to gas ? Or grid electricity ? Comparing to gas is a copout, you really think it’s viable for people to spend 40k on a car followed by 40k for solar another 20k for power walls then pay taxes on this and most likely interest. It simply doesn’t make since for people to spend that much for a 11 year pay off when most people don’t even have their car for 11 years, the avg is 8. So from my perspective for the vast majority of Americans it doesn’t make since to go into near 100k worth of debt just so solar panels may pay themselves off in 11 years. I really appreciate your response I am a Tesla supporter / fan / owner but whenever I mention anything negative it’s nothing but insults and Elon talking points. I apologize for initially being slightly defensive in first comment, was anticipating hate. I am curious your opinion on this, you do seem fairly educated on the subject and appreciate your perspective.

[@waltertoki1]

I live in San Francisco and the PGE electricity cost is about $0.50 per kWh. I charge my Tesla M3 at home and I have 9 kw Solar panels on my roof with net metering. I estimate that I will get about 10,000 kWh per year which will cover home electricity consumption, tesla charging and a future ducted heat pump for my HVAC. I fear PGE, which is a monopoly, will attempt new ways to charge more fees until homeowners disconnect from the grid.

[@ScottRosenquist]

UGH, I have PG&E too. Luckily I can charge at work which has SMUD and it's literally a quarter the price. I wonder since CA government is so big on EVs if they force PG&E to have cheaper off speak for EV owners. 34¢ is ridiculous and they are trying to raise it more.

[@Stommpy1]

PGE's profit last year $2.5 billion. 25% growth from last year.

[@Gabri3lRocha]

Just got my Tesla and I love it. The main reason I got it is because I hate paying for gas and I hate maintaining gas cars. It wasn’t until after that I learned about the cost of battery replacement which would basically wipe out any gas savings but I made peace with it since Tesla is way easier to maintain and just more fun the ride. When you starting raising the price of electricity which makes sense that it would go up with the higher demand in the future, at that point Evs just become a fun toy. This is really making me consider selling this future headache of a car and just riding out ice cars as long as I can. I still love Evs but I didnt consider that electric companies will basically be able to charge whatever they want in the future akin to gas as a commodity

[@dennislyons3095]

I'm not sure where you got your PG&E rates from. My PG&E off peak power cost is $0.487/kwh, on-peak $0.513/kwh. I've ha solar (9 KW) for over 20 years. We're on Time-of-use rate schedule with Peak -9 pm daily. It's less expensive to take my R1T to Electrify America for $0.42/kw than charge at home. We have 2 EVs & all electric house, live in the country on a well so, our power usage is higher than a suburban home. Our dual Powerwall instal cost $36K last year. No change to our solar panels, just added Powerwalls. I still consider my transportation costs better since I do not have oil changes or need fuel storage for vehicles. The biggest thing is that I no longer drive polluting vehicles. We use the Bolt for short ay trips & "grocery getting" & use the R1T for road trips. Over 30K miles on the Bolt & 25K+ miles on the R1T.

[@alaind831]

EVA rate plan (at leas in northern CA) are 34.4c kwh from midnight-3pm. I just switch to it from tier plan

[@retass1979]

I have the same high rate with PGE. I do not qualify for the EV2A rate since I have solar...we must be on the TOU rate which is .487/.515...It is much cheaper to use my local super charger at night for .15/kwh. The day rates are higher but still less that at home.

[@alaind831]

@@retass1979 | do not qualify for the EV2A rate since I have solar you kidding me! so I can't get solar now to potentially offset PGE rate hikes ? they really get and screw you!!!

[@telerye]

dang, just looked and our rates are 8.68 cents per kWh.

[@alsjogren7890]

Gasoline in San Carlos, Guaymas, Sonora (where I live in winter) is about $5.53 per gallon (24.88 Pesos per liter). Mid tier residential electricity rates (in all Mexico) are about 6.5 cents per KwH. That is a big electric advantage. One gallon of gas will travel about 30 miles, while the same money will take my electric car 255 miles. The electric advantage is not as great in our summer home in Seattle area. Gasoline at Costco Shoreline, Washington is $3.76 per gallon. Electricity is slightly less than 12 cents per KwH in Shoreline. Still a lot of savings to be had with an electric car. Again, one gallon of gas will travel about 30 miles, while the same amount of money will take my electric car 94 miles.

[@PA30Crewchief]

Southern NM overnight rate is 1c/kWhr. My Tesla costs maybe 5$/month

[@alaind831]

that is insane... might as well be free.

[@alx4571]

If individuals can affordably add solar + battery and get a long term savings why can the big power companies do the same with near zero interest capital and business write offs?

[@poneill65]

Related point,.. Power walls need to be waaaaaaay less of a rip off, 13.5KWh for $8400 is absurd. It's NOT the batteries: - you can buy a whole new model 3/Y woth 80KWh for around 35k, and get 6x the battery capacity. - you can buy a whole used Model S P90 with 90kWh P90D for 30k, and get 7x the battery capacity. Basically, home battery systems cost about $500/KWh, whereas batteries cost about $100/KWh (and if CATL is to be believed, rapidly heading to $50/KWh this year!) The cost of the additional inverters doesn't add up to this 6x. I'm surprised companies haven't started repurposing old EV batteries into cheaper home batteries at these markups! Wasn't that (after life useage) supposed to be one of the headline advantages of the whole battery EV revolution? Heck, I'd be tempted to get togeter with likeminded tinkerers and homebrew a home battery like many KZbin DIYers do from the carcas of an old P90D! You'd also have the value of the remaining used EV parts. Sadly, you know Tesla knows their prices are outrageous because their website is utterly deviod of any specs and will not even tell you the price until you go to the order page.

[@TurdFergusen]

tesla allowing bi directional charging would throw off so much … people would buy used EVs just to park

[@alaind831]

I know. I REALLY wisht my new Y would allow bi-directional as what's the point of getting a powerwall IF you can park your car for a lot of the day... you aleady have the car, use it as emergency backup too.

[@TurdFergusen]

isnt the bigger news that electricity rates went up 5x ??? think air conditioning during the summer

[@flexluthor1]

In San Diego we have SDG&E, and as of today's date my rates have been between $0.21/kWh and $0.26/kWh. I hope this trend set by PG&E doesn't continue, and spread to the rest of the state. It very well could spread, even to the rest of the country, as you mentioned. Though I'd like to offer a couple solutions for those like myself, who may be worried about home charging costs and availability.

[@flexluthor1]

Firstly,, I recommend looking into whether or not your employer allows you to gain access to reserved lots with charging stations. For example, my employer has an employee lot that has ChargePoint stalls and are accessable through SDG&E's "Power Your Drive" (PYD) program. Those rates are on average $0.18/kWh.

[@JB-fq9dp]

San Jose Electricity rate is $0.85 per k/W (PG&E delivery + SJ Clean Energy generation) @ peak and $.68 per k/W (PG&E + SJCE) @ off-peak. If I drive 300 miles in a Mazda CX5 @ 30MPG, it will cost ~$42.5 with gas @ $4.25. It will cost ~ $53 in my Bolt EUV to drive the same miles if I only charge during off-peak. ...................... 300 /3.8 kW/h = 78.9 kW x .68 = $53.65.

[@josephgallagher1440]

Thanks Drew for sharing a video and providing a breakdown analysis on this very important topic. This is going to be an issue for everyone else across the US.

[@dell177]

I'm just south of Boston and carefully shop for the best Electric rate. This fall the best i can find is 33 cents per kwh, at that price I question if a heat pump is worth it because thatat is 4X the cost of natural gas for me. My gas boiler has one thing n it's favor it's very reliable and if there is no cost savings on energy why would I want to go with a heat pump? We hould invest more into making IC engines run on hydrogen (especially trains and trucks). By the time we build out the electric system to handle EVs and heat pumps The cost per KWH is going to be horrendous.Fuel costs should be tied to the size of vehicles, we can't afford large SUV's and trucks anymore. WE need to get vehicle size down and make our homes tighter so they need less power and that has to be done now.

[@garywozniak7742]

Hydrogen is the most expensive solution. It takes 3x to 4x more electricity to produce and compress hydrogen for a HFCV than it does to charge an equivalent battery EV.

[@AlainFattal]

Sorry for you. In Quebec, Canada, 1 kwh costs USD 0.065, and I still complain about my electricity bill. 🤭

[@mowcowbell]

Yikes! Makes me thankful I pay 'only' .14cents per kwh to OG&E in Oklahoma. And gas is well below $3/gal. And thank god I don't live in TX.

[@MrRubme]

Sucks that there’s no Tesla Energy like there is in Texas. I used to obsess doing math in my head about the efficiency and cost of our roadtrips compared to gas and this increase is infuriating. As for solar there is no way we’re going to pay $30k upfront and that’s without having to upgrade our main Panel and having PG&E to dig a trench and feed us more power to increase our Panels Amps to 225 at least.

[@WilliamBunch-z9s]

Every time I hear PG&E, I think of Erin Brockovich. Georgia Power ranges from $0.03 to $0.25, pending on the time of charging if you own your own home.

[@VedaSay]

Roof and backyard panels, and small silent wind turbines...yes I mean they could be multiple strategically place to harness best wind tunnels. Connect them to a super small home microgrid. If you have an EV, make it solar powered already. EV was step to freedom, don't take two steps back bagging for utilities to reduce price.

[@WilliamChapin]

The difference between petroleum fuel and electric fuel for vehicles from a cost point, is that for electric fuel and reasonable investment of a few dollars per watt one can produce electric fuel for free from the nuclear generator in the sky. It takes a few hundred million years to generate petroleum fuel free from the nuclear generator in the sky. Take control of your home electricity pricing. The raised PG&E pricing makes it a no-brainer.

[@rwhirsch]

Good God what is the supercharger cost in California it must be ridiculous

[@georgepelton5645]

Acording to the video, it was $0.35/kWh.

[@BlairSlavin]

So if your staying where you are for awhile... why not get a solar panel?

[@vicalbincooper]

Solar and batteries are dropping in price at such a fast rate that it is only a matter of time before they are a viable option for a huge number of people. Imagine solar panels that are so cheap that the racking is the most expensive part and a kW of battery storage is less than $100. I have a DIY system on my house that already meets those targets. There is nothing to stop those prices from being true for most people in a few years.

[@cenewton3221]

Batteries are NOT cheap at the moment and won't be until we've had some additional breakthroughs in technology and/or resource extraction. Solar is only good in drier climates. Imagine this, imagine that. Ok, I'm imagining that down the road a ways you may be right. But not any time soon.

[@ErikMeike]

It now is about the same price to run a small gasoline generator as to use electricity. A gallon of gas has 33.7 kWh of energy in it. Prices seem to be about $4.5/gal right now. This means $4.5/33.7kWh = $0.133/kWh before generator inefficiency. If you assume 33% efficiency for the gas generator, that is $0.133*3 = $0.399/kWh, which is just barely more expensive than off peak, and i'm sure on peak would pay for all maintenance prices etc on the generator as it now goes up to $0.66/kWh.

[@WilliamBunch-z9s]

Power Companies have collected. Money since 1800's. They can afford it. Also, if you add an RO system for gray water and live off the grid. As in do not give away your electricity. I want at least 2 of the huge batteries Tesla has made for the Texas power grid. My EV avg 3.1 to 5.9 kWh per mile.

[@ferchizzle]

Leave the state

[@Kareem-cx4fi]

I came to this realization a while back. This ev push will come with way higher electricity costs. I live in Texas, and it cost me 14 cents pkwh at home and 35 cent pkwh at Tesla super chargers. I can tell that these are the early days and i should enjoy it while i can because i know electricity bills are going to go up in the next couple decades. Its been the main reason i have been thinking of going solar with off grid power.

[@deplorablechump8758]

How many years will it take you to break even? Don’t forget annual maintenance costs 😁

[@Kareem-cx4fi]

@@deplorablechump8758 at about 400 a month... Less than 10 years easily. Depending on the cost of the system could be closer to 7 years.

[@deplorablechump8758]

@@Kareem-cx4fi Do it and report your experience in 10 years

[@m60mgman]

I thought the adoption of clean energy was going to lead to cheaper electricity, even free! What’s with this rate hike? Reality vs the dream. We pay a total of 15 cents a kWh (including taxes and fees) here in NC.

[@TailosiveEV]

Aptera is the path to free charging

[@steveurbach3093]

And this is also the state that allows PG&E to steal your Solar (net metering 3.0). (power you put onto the grid is sold to someone else at full price and the did not have to GENERATE that)

[@McGarrenFlack]

I think you should leave CA, come to St. George, UT we are paying 0.06 per kwh and close to 3 state/national parks.

[@pepstein]

Utah has so much natural beauty!

[@Y_Mike]

St. George Utah is so beautiful. If they had jobs for my career/expertise, I’d move there in a heartbeat.

[@leamgodfrey7445]

They are making renewables with storage more attractive

[@AndrewMackoul]

V2H can help with the issue of battery costs.

[@jimfergusondev]

My buddy in Austin Tx, last months bill was $0.03/khw super off peak, $0.09/khw peak. Enron really fucked California. Please reply with your electric costs if you don't live in California. San Diego Gas & Electric EVTOU5: $16/Month Base Fee: On-Peak $0.696 /khw Off-Peak $0.646 /khw Super Off-Peak $0.187 /khw

[@g60dood]

So spot on. I would add that California has banned the sale of new gas powered cars starting in 2035. So no matter what it costs to charge California will be forcing drivers toward EVs.

[@danam0228]

What I don't like is that my electric bill includes a charge for EVs even though I do not own one. It has me BS. I should only be paying for electricity I use based on what it costs to generate and transmit. That's it!

[@danam0228]

@valcaron yeah, but schools are good for society AND property value if done right; EVs are debateable

[@pepstein]

Utilities are often monopolies, and that can lead to inefficiency and incompetence. PG&E has plenty of both. I appreciate how lucky I am to have a competent electric utility that delivers hydroelectric power for 8 cents a kWh. I agree EV efficiency is important, especially if your electricity is expensive. People focus so much on range when efficiency and charging power are at least as important.

[@ronaldkrikorian4712]

Pacific Gas & Extortion at its finest! Greetings from Australia 🇦🇺

[@Guerreropowerr]

i live in a house built in 1926. Tesla quoted me $12,000 alone just to retrofit my house's roof to be able to hold the weight of the solar panels!

[@christophers707]

paying $0.49 off peak this is criminal my lightning now cost more than the truck I replaced it with. California really is a dystopian hell hole.

[@vhol93]

25c off peak is indeed mega expensive, 37c is a robbery! :0

[@vhol93]

I pay 10c off peak in Portugal, for reference

[@rca950476]

I can see the price of electricity continue to go up as more people buy EVs. I saw this coming 4 years ago. I would like to get an EV in the future but if the cost to fill up a gas car are the same as an EV then why spend the money to switch over.

[@Gabri3lRocha]

Just got my model 3 and after the video It has me thinking the same thing. At this rate Evs will just become a fun toy. I don’t care for toys I just care about saving money and being financially responsible

[@bradytorvik6294]

Yup, pretty much common sense. California's grid is already stretched to the limit and they want everyone driving EVs? Also, as more people drive EVs the demand for gas will go down too and it will get even cheaper while electricity prices go up. The sad thing is that EVs are going to make cooling your home super expensive too as they drive up electricity costs. I like EVs but this was not well thought out at all.

[@Gabri3lRocha]

@@bradytorvik6294 lol dam yah that’s a good point as well. Price to cool a home is going to be a big issue in the future

[@ryanpierce1710]

SDE&G in San Diego is worse. I think right now I am at .56 and .69 on peak. I got solar a couple years ago. But man it gettin out of hand.

[@rwhirsch]

Is PG &E subject to antitrust law

[@jjamespacbell]

PG&E is so badly run, I also live in California but my city Anaheim has its highest charge range of $0.20 this is 24/7/360. Anaheim also pays the same rate to send or receive electricity with the grid. My point is even in California there is no need for these rate increases from PG&E I just upgraded to a Tesla Solar/battery system so my EV now runs on sunshine. You still have to pay some connection base rates to support the grid but I have no issue with that.

[@alaind831]

that sounds great. a town nearby (Santa Clara) also have a 16c EV rate which I'm stuck in Santa Cruz paying PGE 35c at best.... 31% increase jan 1.

[@CAINtheBULL]

So my wives 46mpg Corolla hybrid is cheaper operating car than a Tesla? Insurance is super cheap also. Ev insurance is higher right?

[@Mechazawa787]

I've been screaming about this on the internet for months. I mean buy an EV if you want one for other reasons, but don't expect to save money. I'm in eversource country, and we were around 28 cents per kwh for several months and even at that price it costs less to drive any hybrid car that's not an SUV than any EV with four wheels you can buy. My last fill up was at $3.05/gallon. I go 50+ miles on every gallon. Even at an unrealistic 4 mpkwh, you are looking at $3.50 to cover that 50 miles. Now they are bumping it up another 5 cents per kwh. I feel sorry for everyone who let Elmo convince them at a Tesla would save them money.

[@koolgamers6763]

This is why I’ve despised auto manufacturers and their tendency to prioritize higher end performance and or luxury EVs over affordable efficient ones. The goal overall is to make transportation more affordable and better for the environment not create a new playground for rich people to show off. 0-60 in 6 seconds is more than fine for a grocery getter and we should prioritize efficiency over trying to stuff the biggest batteries possible into heavy ass vehicles that have fast acceleration as a party trick.

[@WilliamBunch-z9s]

Norway powers the country on Hydro power mostly and sells the oil. It is an EV paradise.

[@hellcat1988]

Funny to watch electricity providers make the best argument that individual generation through solar and wind for private persons is the cheapest and best option for the future.

[@Nate_G_SD]

After depreciation, tax, registration and insurance, it’s much more expensive to drive electric. An efficient, cheap and paid off car for the win. Sad, because I really want a M3 or Aptera.

[@stayfocus18]

or a paid off ev like my model 3

[@Nate_G_SD]

@@stayfocus18 I have been thinking of an off lease 2021 Model 3. Traditional New vs Used financials are starting to apply (post pandemic). 3 year old LFP will last a long time.

[@srqnate]

Tesla offered me 12k for my 2018 M3 for trade in. It is better now than when I bought it 😮 Keeping it for a kid down the road.

[@1b300sd]

PGE profits were up 25% after the rate increase!!!!! Screwing us for profits for the shareholders????? How did this happen? F PGE they should be taken over by non profit!!!!!!

[@jamesbuchanan3439]

Your solar system doesn't need a Powerwall (or other battery) in order to be financially worthwhile IF you have an EV that is generally available for home charging during sunny times...

[@Gabri3lRocha]

Unfortunately I don’t have the luxury of moving out of California because all my family is here but I’m actually surprised drew hasn’t considered moving out of California, at least never mentioned it. He would be able to work anywhere else with his line of work plus his parents don’t live in cali anymore. Idk though I’m sure drew has his reasons

[@Martinko_Pcik]

One more argument for making your own juice. California should be perfect for capturing solar energy and filling your tank with it at least partially.

[@cylonmode]

That's insane!!! Dang I feel bad for you guys... WoW!

[@johancanul3273]

I live in San Francisco and it’s 0.51 cents per kWh 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[@alaind831]

ouch. Santa Cruz went form 26c to 34c for EVA rate and only going up with PGE

[@joe55514]

35ct in germany is very normal. in the us you‘re very spoiled for energy prices

[@GaryGreenway]

The only helpful advice I can offer is for you to learn about energy storage systems other than Powerwall. The Tesla system, while compact and convenient is way more expensive than other systems that offer superior performance. Two excellent sources of information on youtube are Offgrid Garage and Will Prowses channel. These channels primarily focus on offgrid systems, but simply using a different inverter allows you to use them on grid connected houses. Even without solar panels, you can buy electricity in offpeak hours and store it to use during peak hours. That way all power you use is at offpeak EV rates. When I ran the numbers a couple years ago, it didn't make sense for me (with my rates) to set up a system because of the low differential price between on peak and off peak rates. If I had your rates, I would definitely run the numbers again to see if this system is viable yet. The bottom line is buy electricity when it is the cheapest and use it throughout the day. This also helps the grid by reducing peak demand.

[@TailosiveEV]

If I consumed more energy you may be right. But when my power bill is only $120 a month (cause we use so little power) it’s hard to justify those big expenses

[@TurdFergusen]

Tesla is the Apple of energy storage

[@Harrythehun]

The bill for distribution for electricity is going to skyrocket all around the world. The grid costs to build new infrastructure will be the biggest driver.

[@chezikmusic]

If you don’t mind me asking, what’s holding you back from moving out of California?