What role is your grinder playing? Ode, 078, DF83V compared!

[@gabrielo8922]

Great video. I could watch you do this over and over with different types of coffees from different roast levels, fermentation processes, regions, etc.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@gabrielo8922 thank you!!! I’m planning to do more coffee specific comparisons and brewing comparisons going into next year so stay tuned!!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I hope this is helpful to understand how these three grinders compare but also that the grinder isn't the only important thing when it comes to brewing great coffee!!!

[@ggusta1]

You need a good consistent grinder but once you have that the biggest limiter is technique

[@nicktobey7183]

Hi Aaron How would you compare the 64mm Gorilla gear to the Timemore 078 turbo burrs? When comes body in cup vs tea like how would you describe the difference? I tried the 078 @ Timemore booth at SCA in Chicago probably will be buying it. Had many coffee's on ode gen 2 @ fellow store. Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks

[@HansProbs]

Aw man PERFECT lineup!!!

[@bandit2R1]

Nice comparison video. I like how you pulled out the differences without being judgemental. I got both the DF83V (espresso burrs) and Duo G2 earlier this year. The 83 has had a bit more of a learning curve, but I am loving them both!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you!!! 😊

[@ggusta1]

I have the ode 2 with MP burrs. The place to further elevate is with my technique and other than the cost of ever more expensive coffee, there's nothing new needed.

[@OmnielCapote]

Great video, as always. 💯

[@JeepBigE]

Great video AAron!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!!! 😝

[@Smittyxc]

In terms of taste gains per $, there’s definitely diminishing returns. Get a quality grinder, but know that upgrading it won’t result in a massive improvement. Water, temp, brew technique, appropriate grind size will have a much more significant effect.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Yep!

[@dz00t]

Do you have an option on the vario w + grinder and its grind quality?

[@coreycannon4511]

Great review, Aaron. I like the idea of a side by side, stock, no pressure, “let’s just see,” comparison. Let’s us get a kind of idea as to whether it’s worth it to pay extra for one grinder over its cheaper rival. As an aside: In an ideal world, if my coffee bar AND my wallet were bigger, I’d have two grinders. Definitely a flat, like the Ode, for drip and an espresso focused grinder, like maybe a VS3 or DF54.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you ! Glad you found it helpful. I like this idea too and I'm planning to do more 😁

[@braxtonjens7839]

It’s fun to “cup grinders” I have a vario, ode Gen 2, and ghost burr I put side by side. Fun to see how the cup can change from one grinder to the next.

[@sf2189]

I use a DF83v with SSP MP burrs for filter. Use a P64 with SSP HU burrs for espresso. Love the DF83v. Very consistent, very low retention.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Nice! I do enjoy the 83mm SSP MP's for some coffees, and I really like the 83mm HU's for espresso also though I haven't used them as much lately cause I've been testing some other grinders for espresso that I'll have videos on soon!

[@giu1644]

What were the grinder settings for each machine?

[@HoustonLaws]

Thank you for this side by side review! Looking to upgrade from my Ode gen 2. Is there a big enough difference with larger burrs and RPM option you taste a difference or keep the gen 2 and buy SSP burrs?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@HoustonLaws thanks for watching! I think the Ode Gen 2 is a great grinder and an even better one with the MP burrs. What I will say about smaller burr grinders from my experiences, is that they tend to have a narrower range to get a coffee dialed in and tasting good, especially with a burr like the MP. The MP’s are such a clarity focused burr that brings out a ton of good characteristics of a coffee, but they can also bring out the bad in a coffee. I have found with a larger burr that you have more room to play with and less of a margin of error. That being said you can still absolutely get great tasting coffee from smaller burrs, it’s just a little harder to get it constantly or as easily.

[@flamehead213]

Great video Señor Aaron! I replaced the original DF83 italmill burrs with the DLC brew burrs and while the brews taste better, I keep going back to my Ode Gen 1 w/SSP MP and my second Gen 1 with Gen 2 burrs for filter coffee. Plus my DF83 (w ionizer) is really messy even after taking off the declumper & doing RDT. I’ve been considering selling my DF83s and DF64 and perhaps get a Zerno 😅.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I’ve great things about the Zerno but haven’t had the chance to mess with one yet!!

[@AnotherAnonymousMan]

Fantastic comparison! Really fascinating. Am I right in thinking you might get a different amount of fines and flavour profile by adjusting the rpm with the Timemore and Turin?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks! And yes you will get changes in particle distribution and fines production by changing grinder RPM however it depends on several factors like burr geometry, grinder design, if the grinder has a pre-breaker or not, and the coffee itself. I honestly like to grind as slow as possible for most coffees but sometimes varying particle size can give you some interesting and complex tasting results. It's all about trial and error and taste!

[@TheJulebrusHorror]

grinder setting on the ode?

[@dryholaos]

How did you dial in the grind size on the Turin and Fellow? Did you match TDS to the Turin?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Yes, I dialed the coffees in to hit as close to the same extraction as possible using my DIFluid R2.

[@avramsanders9198]

What recipe do you use for pour overs?

[@choppersplace]

Luv your summation....best to focus more on quality water, coffee and skillsets vs analysis- paralysis over which quality grinder to get.👍🎯💯

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@choppersplace exactly my goal with this video!! 😊

[@choppersplace]

@@coffeenerdaaron what threw a wrench was the coffee chronicler's 1 yr update review on the 078 a few days ago in which he felt it is best for lighter roasts, specifically anaerobic or natural...like sheesh..i don't think Timemore had in mind such a narrow focus...contrast this with lance hedricks and his fellow tasters/graders etc from last yr in his reddit summation felt the 078 was great across many styles and roast levels. i might buy the 1zpresso K ultra or Timemore S3 tc compliment it..but we'll see...i just want ONE good grinder for all levels of roasts, regardless of processing.

[@mattblank11]

What grind setting did you use for the 078? I have one and would be curious to try your exact recipe!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I was at 9 I believe for this, but keep in mind with a different coffee, different filter, and different water it’s going to be a different experience… unless you have everything the same 😝

[@mattblank11]

@@coffeenerdaaron Totally! I was just curious since I brew at a 2.5 / 3, which struck me as much finer than a little of people... am going to play around with coarser grinds. Thank you!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@mattblank11 cheers! Happy brewing 😀

[@altanar6616]

what type of coffees would you grind with the 078?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I like light roasted washed coffees or cleaner natural coffees with nice vibrancy and fruit forward notes.

[@altanar6616]

@@coffeenerdaaron thanks a lot!!!

[@goawaybaizuo]

I just had to return my df64 Gen 2 due to horrible qc issues. I am now back to searching. I am worried about the 078 and all the horrible qc issues being reported and that the sculptor looks like a nightmare to service the burrs. I run into the same possibility of QC with the df83v as I did the df64. My buddy has an ode gen 2 and it is shaky and janky. I was looking at the mazzer philos, but they aren't shipping to the US atm and I refuse to pay more than 1000 bucks. I can't believe I can't get a good quality QCd coffee grinder for 1000 bucks...

[@abrahimroostaian3474]

It is Fing ridiculous! Let me know if you find/found something. I may have to go higher.

[@QuanayLaiLa]

what do you think about SSP MP burr on Ode Gen 2 ? If we replace this burr will it better than Timmore and df83 ?

[@JE-oq5jm]

Hey, question. Scenario, say you have 64mp burrs and looking for new grinder. Two options df83v ssp mp, or 078. What are you going for? Thanks :)

[@coffeenerdaaron]

That's a good question, they are both great grinders. I really enjoy the coffees I get from the 078 and I personally think the 078 is the best filter grinder grinder you can get for that price point. I love the turbo burrs for the majority of the coffees I drink. You get really good balance of clarity, body, and sweetness. I also really like the larger MP burrs and those are usually what I have in my df83v most of the time. For super light, floral, and delicate coffees I love the MP. The clarity is amazing but I do wish they had more body, and not all coffees are represented well with the level of clarity you can get from these burrs. Some coffees taste worse, even if they are good coffees, cause those burrs are so clear that you taste the good and the bad a lot more. If you want one grinder for both espresso and filter brewing, and you mostly drink light roasts with higher levels of acidity then I think the df83v with MP's will suit you well. If you only drink filter brews and want a little more body, but still a great amount of clarity, than I'd save a little money and go 078. 🙂

[@JE-oq5jm]

@@coffeenerdaaronthanks very much, this is very helpful!

[@JE-oq5jm]

Quick follow, How much more clarity are you getting from 83mp versus 64mp? Thanks 🙏

[@coffeenerdaaron]

it’s a hard thing to quantify but all other things being equal there is a noticeable bump in clarity with the larger burrs but I wouldn’t say it’s mind blowing better. The thing I find to be much better with the 83MP vs 64MP is the larger window of grind range to dial in a coffee. I have found with the smaller MP burrs that coffees can be harder to dial in. The larger MP have a more forgiving window where you can get a coffee tasting really good with some room on either side. With the smaller burrs it seems like it’s a narrower range to get it dialed, which can be frustrating.

[@ciruscoffee4290]

Hi, need help! I have df64 gen2 with ssp mp and timemore 78s. I thought buying turbo burrs 078 and change the mp of my df64 by cast burrs v3 for espresso . It is a good idea ?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks for the comment and question! I love the Timemore turbo burrs so I don’t think you can go wrong by switching to those in your 078s. The only thing I’m not sure of is if the grind adjuster on the 078s is different in any way to the 078. The burrs should swap in but the grind size at a certain indicated number might be different than the 078, however it would only matter to you and I’m sure you could still get it dialed in to work great. As far as burrs for your DF64 the MP burrs are great on espresso if you like a little of vibrancy and clarity, but if you want a little more texture and sweetness the cast burrs are probably the way to go. I don’t think you could go wrong with that setup! 😝

[@mlpjunior]

The v3 cast burrs are amazing for espresso. They are my dedicated espresso burrs in the DF64v, and they can also make a nice filter coffee when needed

[@markedel1009]

Most newer kitchens in the U.S. have 20A sockets on the counters, and it seems really strange to me that no one makes a kettle that uses this plug for the extra wattage.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I've done something like this too, especially with a good coffee (some coffees are just harder to make bad lol) where everything Is just really good. Hard to pick what you like better or worse, It's a good problem to have I guess :D Recently I have a funky Anaerobic processed coffee and noticed with my flat burr grinders including the Ode it emphasized more of that funky fermenty note and I don't really like it, on my good decent clarity conical burr grinders though it seemed like it toned that funkiness' down but still kept the fruity pleasant notes! (might have also been due to coarser grind size or some other variables, but seems pretty consistent). Honestly sometimes I can't really tell the difference between the good decent clarity conical grinders and flat burr grinders, but with this coffee it made a big difference going from flat to conical.

[@almiglad]

Man you made a dream of mine come true by lining up these 3 beast’s 🫡

[@LightZone9]

I appreciate the comparison. I'm currently still using my Ode Gen 1 with Gen 2 burr upgrade for pour overs. For the price point, hard to beat IMO. Now my question. Can you define "juicy" for me. I hear so many people use that term but have never heard an explanation of what it actually means when referring to coffee. Thanks for another great video.

[@giu1644]

I think acidic + fruity = juicy. Think pineapple juice as the extreme version of that and tone it down.

[@iambear.6526]

Do decent $100 electric grinders exist? I want to replace my Timeore hand grinder

[@colew123]

I thought the 078 was supposed to give extreme clarity?

[@TC_Prof]

Nice one bro! For me having a dedicated grinder for brew and spro is ideal ☕️✊💞📣

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Yes for sure!!! No one grinder can do it all!

[@TC_Prof]

keep up the good work mate love it ❤😊

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@TC_Prof yes sir, I hope that came across in the video!

[@philindeblanc]

Im shocked reviewers even cross compare a espresso with a filter grinder!? Lets just make pour overs with an espresso machine! lol. This is just bowing down to those ignorant(we are all ignorant to a subject we have not experienced) on the topic. People who are not looking for an UPGRADE (or even as a first grinder sometimes) the max they can squeeze out of their beans for a specific style like espresso, are just confusing the public, particularly those who are looking for specfic improvemtns, like dial control adjustability and repeatability from shots of different coffees. Likely the LEAST popular, yet most important of the top 6 topics.. Nubies should just watch the reviews made with honest distinction so they can learn and also be well informed on what they might buy.

[@birdegg843]

So..the ode ssp mp might be similar to the 078? ❤

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I’ve had some nice cups of coffee from Odes with SSP MP but I’ve also had some bad ones. From my experience the smaller MP burrs have a narrower window to dial in some coffees and if you get it wrong you know!! That being said, brewing technique and water play a huge role so you’ll have much better results starting with good ingredients as I’m sure you know. I’ve never experienced the level of juiciness with the MP burrs as I have the 078, but the MP’s do have really great clarity which makes some coffees really sing! It boils down to an amalgamation of your taste preferences, the water quality, the coffee quality, and brewing. Then that’s when noticeably positive impacts from a grinder really start to shine.

[@birdegg843]

Thanks for your comment! I am enjoying with my ode ssp. The clarity is so obvious and nice! Before this ode, I had a kalita next g which gave me a round taste. Agreed with your ideas that the water tds or the techniques should be more important than the better grinder. But I still wonder if there is a better grinder which can give me a surprising taste! Hahaha… may be eg-1.

[@Marc-uy7hp]

Don’t shorten the video of the actual grinding. That is the action.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Haha! I figured most people wouldn’t want to watch three grinders grind in full! Lol

[@MichaelZuskin]

You had to test the DF83V and 078 on their lowest RPMs. They have an advantage which you didn't use. 1400 is definitely in the espresso range.

[@colew123]

I use my 078 at 800-900. I agree 1400 is too high.

[@choppersplace]

@@colew123 actually not necessarily so: in this cupping (link below) comparing the 078 with the comandate the cupper feels for both light/med roasts the 078 shine better at the highest RPM but for dark it's better to tone it down...so who knows in the end right: whatever best makes you happy kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZjQgJx7lp2qY6s

[@LobsterPants581]

Great video. I have an Ode Gen 2 and have been thinking about a 078 when I’m ready for a change and more clarity. I’d be interested in your take on when you like each Lotus recipe. Maybe a video to consider in the future? I usually stick to Light and Bright but will give Bright and Juicy a try soon to see how it compares. A basic v60 recipe with settings for each of those grinders would probably help a lot of people too. I see so many posts online where people don’t know what to look for to know if they are nailing a basic v60 recipe. I’m only just figuring it out recently myself 😅

[@dhlehrenlos]

im wondering if I should just get ssp burns for mine?

[@ggusta1]

It's not like I am dying to get a new grinder but the df83v is very intriguing. But dang that is soooo ugly. The freaking choo choo profile is just heinous.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

It seems like it’s been the most controversial grinder in terms of looks! But it does perform well.

[@ggusta1]

@@coffeenerdaaron no doubt about it being a good grinder and punch above its weight. But I need to wait a year and maybe they'll take it to a good plastic surgeon

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@ggusta1 😂

[@ggusta1]

@@coffeenerdaaron I think the only way to make up for its looks is just to fully lean into it and modify it so it looks like Thomas the tank engine

[@alexmontanus]

Sup aaron ❤

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Sup! 😝

[@manveruppd]

Hey, I own an 078, and I have friends who own the other 2 grinders, so I would be very curious to hear what grind setting you used on each one so we can compare!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I believe I was at 4.1 on the Ode, 34 on the DF83V, and 9 on the 078, but of course the coffee density will impact the grind. I bet you can start there and then further get them dialed in. Also I was using Cafec Abaca filters for my testing, cause I have a ton of them!, but obviously the filter flow will affect brew/contact time and extraction 😜. Happy brewing!!!

[@Hemshemsems]

​@@coffeenerdaaron Hey you. I tend to be at 5-6 with light roast on the 078, when i go 7-8-9 i get bitterness or what i perceive it to be, when going finer it evens it out. Have you ever tried finer settings and what do you use em for?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@Hemshemsems I’ve tried a ton of different grind settings and coffees in the 078, and all my grinders! Some coffees I’m in the 5-6 range as well, others I’m in the 8-10 range. It really depends on the coffee, the brewer, the filter, your taste preferences, and what you’re attempting to do with a brew or a particular coffee. I’ve had some coffees I didn’t like as much with the 078 as I did with another grinder. And I’ve had coffees I much prefer with the 078 over something else like my EK43. It really just depends 😜

[@Hemshemsems]

I just did a similar cup, cheaper geisha, 20/300, V60/Cafec abaca, 96c water, 60g bloom 1 minut, 2 pours, 60-150g, and 150-300g, stalled brew and end at 3:30. Same thing a bitter or unpleasant aftertaste that hits back of the tongue..

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@Hemshemsems obviously being a different coffee and most likely different water that coffee doesn't taste good to you brewed that way. I'd brew it however it tastes good to you, at the end of the day taste is important, not the numbers!