What RUINED Bravest Warriors? - A Management DISASTER

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Bravest Warriors was a titan of KZbin back in the early 2010s and was one of the most popular and high quality animated web series. After 2 strong years of a success, Bravest Warriors had a bomb dropped in its lap that would prove to be its undoing
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✅Video Credits✅
►Video Script and Research by Saberspark
►Video Edits by and Thumbnail by Henri Yount
/ bviddycent
►Additional Video Edits by Jmore
/ jmore5099
►Audio Edits by dBPony
/ dbponymusic
►Intro Music/Outro Music by Hirosashii
/ hirosashii
►Additional Avatar Pics by Flutter Spartan
/ flutterspartan
►Avatar Pics by Acid Neko
/ xxacidnekoxx
►Music by Home
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►Art "Here come the Bravest Warriors!" by ElCajarito
(we didn't know it was fan art until after the upload, sorry!)
►www.deviantart.com/elcajarito...
📝Research Sources📝
docs.google.com/document/d/1J...
🎨Art of the Week🎨
►Art by Abby 'A' Warner
/ the_violet_pen

[@Saberspark]

Been a while since we've done a "What RUINED" video! Glad to be back, got a lot more on the way. What do you all think about Bravest Warriors though? Did any of ya watch it back in the day?

[@mysteriousdog3556]

Me

[@topdawg2916]

Can you do what ruined kids tv

[@poetgamerz9047]

SABER ARE YOU A POTATO

[@cherrychan2200]

Do "What Ruined Shrek"

[@clayton_rose]

I’d like til season 3

[@shirokiro9081]

I remember viewing this show as an alternative to Adventure Time, it’s a shame it flopped due to poor management. As soon as it went onto VRV I began losing interest.

[@Lover_of_ebrietas]

Two boys wow and one of them didn't even spell the speech right

[@gracekim25]

As soon as it ended up on VRV I couldn’t watch it!!!😭 I’m not AMERICAN

[@cursorguy]

@les simpson Dang now the bots be having a stroke

[@shirokiro9081]

@@gracekim25 Yeah, them switching it to VRV really isolated its audiences outside of America. Which wasn’t a smart move at all.

[@onieni9779]

I didn't realize VRV made this show regionilized. I'm so happy I stopped using that service after a few days :/ I didn't care for it for how much I actually wanted to watch on it.

[@pikespeakaudio8898]

It feels like Frederator could have avoided a lot of bad will if they had simply said upfront "KZbin pulled our funding, we're trying to find a way to keep producing the show."

[@JakeWolven]

For real. I would have donated had there been a Kickstarter or Patreon

[@schizoidmeme5470]

If I had to guess, knowing how shitty working for KZbin can be, they're might have been a possible NDA.

[@thatguyitzme5725]

@@schizoidmeme5470that makes sense. Big companies like to keep anything that would give them backlash under wraps.

[@TheJjcczz]

@@schizoidmeme5470Doubtful, youtube funded a bunch of creators shows and they all stopped when the funding stopped. No creator was shy about saying KZbin stopped funding their shows. Hell it was even a news story that KZbin had pulled funding for its premium originals

[@idontknow2yatube]

The region locking really killed the show for international fans. I still haven't see season 3 and many of my friend didn't even knew abut the VRV deal. It was trully a PR disaster.

[@joacosmash65]

Atleast now is available on youtube i think (the bravest warriors channel)

[@caninegames3238]

Seasons 1-4 are available on the cartoon hangover channel.

[@rddragon5]

This reminds me of what happened with College Humour. Couldn't keep making money on KZbin. Shifted all their stuff behind a paywall that was region locked. Though years later they seem to have landed on their feet with Dropout. At the time I was one angry viewer shaking my fist. Sad that Bravest Warriors and dear Catbug couldn't find the same success. RIP a great series.

[@BBrawler101]

Tbf to college humor, they had also been “advised” to stretch out their video-making content to non-KZbin sources, like Facebook Video and other sites by other companies. There’s a lot of stuff that happened behind the scenes, I think Adam Conover spoke about it pretty bluntly in the aftermath once college humor kinda died out, but it’s ways more than they didn’t make enough money from KZbin

[@leadcreekmusic]

Thankfully Dropout is actually good. Probably the first time I’ve seen a “youtube company transitioning to a subscription website” not go up in flames. Fuck, remember rooster teeth first?

[@BBrawler101]

@@leadcreekmusic As a former RT fan, god do I remember rooster teeth first. That thing never appealed to me and the price, iirc, was ridiculous for just premiere access and some additional content. If you were only watching RT for one thing and one thing only, First was absolutely not worth it.

[@2fluffytv]

Exactly, glad dropout actually have banger series like game changers and D20. Their actors and writers are so talented to go to waste

[@SwiftNimblefoot]

Oh so that's where they have gone. I just never cared enough to investigate.

[@Cupheadsadvocate]

Fun Fact: Mr. Muffin from ASDF movie 8 was voiced by the same kid who played Catbug. TomSka had to record his voice from phone because of location differences. This was explained in "The Muffin That Saved My Life" by TomSka and friends.

[@princewellidk]

he's now on We Baby Bears

[@allanribergaard5927]

Yeah

[@Piflle]

Memes never die, they simply change form

[@justzseeo4686]

I'm your 1k like

[@hiruyabebaw807]

@@princewellidk W

[@Websurger]

The most frustrating for me has always been that Catbug's quote "You're my friends now, we're having soft tacos later" turned into a meme, but never pointed back to Catbug's clip for it :(

[@lankymaccrazyhair264]

so that's where that meme came from

[@andrewrevenge5788]

exactly

[@demiokulaja7787]

i feel ur pain! a bunch of catbug audio clips were popular on tiktok some time ago and barely anyone even mention catbug or the show he came from :(

[@anotherperson2627]

Damn I didn't even know that

[@TheUltima_Werewolf]

That's where it came from?

[@mags2226]

It's interesting you mention Bee and Puppycat in this video, because I kind of feel like their shows had similar downfalls. Mind, I don't know anything about the management of Bee and Puppycat after the show got it's "real" season featuring 20 minute episodes...but the show really falls off. It was sad. It was so much fun, so colorful and fast-paced, and the new season that had a lot of publishing issues nonwithstanding lacks much of the charm. Some shows thrive with 8-10 minute runtimes, and they actually can't figure out how to run a story longer than that. Bee and Puppycat was one of them.

[@nakenmil]

I remember looking around for Bravest Warrior and Bee and Puppycat updates and info for YEARS and it felt like there was radio silence. I loved those shows.

[@yeokonma]

What? Didn't they announce season 2 on Netflix?

[@FunctionallyLiteratePerson]

@@yeokonma regardless if they announced it, there are "ways" to watch it online iirc

[@KE-yq2eg]

I still think the pilot was way superior and quotable. The revamped version never hit home with me.

[@wargex]

Next season is already finished. They're just waiting to publish it for whatever reasons. If you can figure out where to look it's all already been leaked. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to officially come out sometime this year if I remember correctly. It's decent, I prefer the earlier seasons/episodes but I don't think I've fully finished the new one yet.

[@Goat-on-a-Stick]

I hate to see such good potential lost to blundering and bad management.

[@DarkDodgers]

It really is. I used to watch religiously but as a kid I could barely afford a WoW subscription let alone a subscription for a video service. Money is a rough thing man.

[@PhilUP]

Nice another "what ruined" video. Always enjoyed these; not to bash the animators or companies, but to see what went wrong that lead to the disaster of the product.

[@tendoukiryu6989]

Ehhhhh sometimes people need to be bashed for their idiotic decisions which leads to the disaster of said product, especially companies.

[@brawler5760]

@@tendoukiryu6989 But if you base your entire video on just the bashing and not how the actual downfall happened, then it’s not gonna be good.

[@tendoukiryu6989]

@@brawler5760 not the point of my statement.

[@STRUDELER]

Here come the bots

[@jedd.0322]

I feel like Saberspark specialized in these. glad he brought this back

[@cheeseisgood17]

I would not consider 'Bravest Warriors' a failure. It was what it was. Seasons 1-3 felt passionate. Once funding ended, it feels like they wanted to salvage/milk it rather than continue creating content for it.

[@mastertjt56]

Yeah that's the problem with some series, video games and shows go through this rough time. It sucks whenever that happens because looking at the previous parts of a entertainment media, you could see the passion and everything but once they get consumed by greed or they don't feel motivated anymore....this happens

[@falllenshadow]

This guy is my best friend

[@falllenshadow]

Reminds me of how Bleach kinda didn't fail as an anime but it definitely was... A mess.

[@daedalus5466]

“If only there was a way to change the location of your-“ *rapidly taps screen to skip ahead*

[@z69b]

good, nord is garbage

[@MapleLeafAce]

I skip through every KZbin sponsorship. Every time.

[@plshelpalistair]

I used to love this show, my parents didn’t have Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon or Disney so I didn’t really have access to good quality cartoons. Finding Bravest Warrior was like uncovering a gem. I used to rewatch the series a few times a week. I was so disappointed when it went on hiatus for so long, by the time it came back I had moved on (to pirating cartoons lol)

[@Haruhi4me]

I feel like things could have been so much better if more emphasis was put on communication. This is how i feel with bee and puppy cat too--like people can be patient and understanding, but not if all we get after supporting a series for years is complete radio silence followed up years later with a pay wall

[@yippykiay13]

Bingo.

[@prince_chavv02]

God, Bee and Puppycat is SUCH a damn comfort and I'll forever be upset about it.

[@ThePortuguesePlayer]

What exactly happened with Bee and Puppycat? I remember the hype back then, but completely lost what followed...

[@Anna-vi3xm]

@@ThePortuguesePlayer Season 2 of Bee and Puppycat was postponed until this year because Netflix picked it up. Season 2 is already done and if you look you can probably find it as it was leaked. From what I've heard a season 3 might be created if it gains enough traction once released on Netflix but i think thats just speculation

[@prince_chavv02]

@@maxaroni39 Ooh I'll keep a lookout!

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

I remember watching the Bravest Warrior pilot along with Adventure Time in _Random Cartoons_ from Nickelodeon back in the day. In hindsight, both shows became successful on their own rights.

[@STRUDELER]

Here come the bots

[@MizuFujimori]

Debatable

[@20000dino]

Bravest Warriors’ success doesn’t even come close to Adventure Time’s.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@20000dino That’s why I said "in their own rights".

[@toptomato]

SAME

[@thetechrealist]

I always wondered why they couldn’t put it out on television? Like, just go up to the executives and show them the success of the first seasons and bam 💥

[@victorhurwitz5559]

Good question.

[@spyczech]

just how it to "the executives" the meritocracy is a lie, thats why.

[@chrisgonzales5597]

i remember actively keeping up with bravest warriors and bee and puppycat. the radio silence was terrible but the fact that they kept pushing our cryptic “teasers” for both of those shows and nothing else was probably the worst part. especially that “puppycat tells all!” bs video that said literally nothing

[@unknownvariable9239]

I liked season 3 well enough, and of course the first 2 seasons are great, but the animation change in season 4 and the style of the episodes is really what killed it for me.

[@FatalityPWN]

Same, after season 3 it didn't feel like the same show at all.

[@gracekim25]

4 seasons?

[@TheFluBugZ]

@@gracekim25 yeah, what? There's a season 4?

[@justsomegoogleimagedoor1212]

@Rare one *No*

[@TheFluBugZ]

@@aduckofsomesort Not fully yet, honestly never knew they made 2 more seasons. Only watched them on youtube.

[@HeyItsAlyssa94]

Excellent video! As someone who started working at Frederator when Season 3 of Bravest Warriors came out, a lot of what you say is pretty spot on. My job was to manage the community and make sure fans were up to date as much as possible, across all Frederator's channels and platforms. It pained me to see fans upset, but money was a big player. I'm interested to see you make a piece about Frederator as a whole. Overall, I leave it as "It's always been Wankershim."

[@ZeroX7649]

I'm more shocked they allowed any season to be ended on a cliffhanger at all. Oh well, we're just lucky we got an ending, period.

[@clintbeastwood5116]

"Wait. It's all Wankershim?" "Always has been."

[@raizerker]

That would be an incredible video, Frederator and Cartoon Hangover have so many things to talk about.

[@bananaSauce6474]

So all of season 3 is out but not on YT? I can’t find it on YT. Where do they have it?

[@bcxorigins]

I hope one day, there can be a reboot series to reintroduce us to this world because it really has so much potential to be just as big as Adventure Time. But a man can only hope.

[@theultimatesagavan6287]

Really excited at the prospect of a What Ruined video for Bee and Puppycat in the future. It was another Cartoon Frederator web show that had was doing good when the pilot and episodes 1 - 4 were on KZbin. The last 6 of the 10 episodes were moved onto VRV first and it took forever for then to come out of KZbin. The sequel series "Bee and Puppycat: Lazy in Space" was supposed to come out this year in 2022 on Netflix, but all the episodes have been leaked online on pirating websites as of summer of 2020.

[@officialtoxicsaur]

Actually I thought the show was really good once it released although you cannot pay to explain what I was witnessing most of the time I honestly thought it was really good for a soft reboot of the series

[@fartfish1880]

I'd love to see a video on Starship Goldfish. The pilot was absolutely immaculate and it has some "unfinished" episodes on the channel that are genuinely good and showcase the writers' incredible abilities. It's a genuine shame it hasn't been picked up (yet?). The last update we got was a year ago and it was basically just "we're still pitching"

[@emmy7318]

I LOVED bravest warriors, me and my friends would quote it to each other all the time. I never finished the series, and it makes me sad to hear it go this way :(

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

LOCALLY GROWN BUTTER LETTUCE.

[@MinkusMcdinkus]

@@Lobsterwithinternet GAS POWERED STICK

[@DaNintendude]

@@MinkusMcdinkus IT NEVER RUNS OUT OF GAS

[@TheRedJadex]

Same.

[@Janisar]

I was working at Nelvana during this time, though not on Bravest The show was a dumpster fire in terms of organization and scheduling, though I find that plagues almost every animation production that's outsourced because of how the parent companies encourage bidding wars Basically they're looking to do something good enough as cheaply as possible, as quickly as possible. Studios come to them with smaller and smaller budgets (smaller teams, shorter deadlines) and basically promise the impossible. My saying for productions is: Paint dries at the rate paint dries. So while Bravest and other shows were expecting each department (save animation) to complete an episode a week, it's just not realistic, and productions fall further and further behind Point of this comment: people here raggin' on stuff that's outsourced to Canada don't understand that our studios can give quality work! We do it for Canadian productions all the time. It's just clients from America don't want to put the money into it to make it have that level of quality. It's an issue of valuing profit margins above everything else

[@togipoogaming3775]

and im the lost son of donald trump 🙄 right...

[@vsGoliath96]

"It's just that clients from America don't want to put the money into it to make it have that level of quality." Yeah... yeah, that definitely checks out.

[@EquinoxGT]

@@vsGoliath96 Seconded, and also the fact that the US does not value animation and comics/graphic novels for that matter in the same regard other countries do. It either has to be juvenile or adult with little substance to what the animation studios want to do lest the the project they want to do gets canceled for inane reasons. There is little middle ground with making engaging animation content in the the US that doesn't always have to play the usual chords in order to get picked up and it is infuriating.

[@Jellyfish146]

Oh absolutely we do, I live in BC and there's no shortage of quality Canadian TV shows.

[@GreenTimeEagle]

@@EquinoxGT wow then how did Adventure Time achieve what it did? For me, it got this incredible depth whilst having a silly level to it. A very intriguing synthesis

[@TheGoodContent37]

As an artist these type of videos and examples make me lose hope for ever being successful with my art and stories. If an entire team of professionals couldnt manage to keep alive an already proven to be successful series what hopes do I have to do something with new uncknown content? The best quality, the best content tends to die and garbage tends to thrive because its cheap. That happens all across production worlds, content and products. Thats so sad.

[@flytrapJester]

Honestly I get you but there is good free animations programs that you can use also Comics are also a good way to make stories

[@The6thMessenger]

What ruined it is the Relationship bullshit -- with Beth in the forefront being clueless about it. That bit with the tentacle monster time-loop, where she told him that she owes the other guy if love is real -- that's not love, that's pity.

[@MrFilgueiras.]

it's such a sad story, specially considering how they came out as villains, even tho if they had gone the "easy" way and just cancelled the series, they would have been seen as heros... In the end I'm just happy that the story was finished and we didn't get another case of a masterpiece cut before finishing

[@Davtwan]

@@Raya-ir4tm - Better to end as a bright fire than a melted candle.

[@RoflCannon6]

While admirable that they didn’t quit, they really should have. There’s lots of shows that got picked up again after being cancelled or stopped airing for a really long time like Samurai Jack.

[@a17yearoldonyoutubeluigi]

Canadian here, I distinctly remember seeing ads for this show on Teletoon but never watched it, I never knew the lore behind it went so deep. I guess I was one of the lucky ones who had a chance to watch it for free.

[@comfywees3274]

I watched season 1-3 of bravest warriors, but had no idea it was on teletoon until today. Like yo I didn't know season 4 existed, let alone that I could have watched it for free on tv 😭

[@seb99342]

@@joshroehl6098 imagine self promoting your cringe songs

[@victorhurwitz5559]

​@@seb99342yep.

[@nalts]

Wow I missed all of this and probably shouldn’t have. I met the Frederator people (I signed with next new network) and learned about adventure time before it launched. Only then did I find bravest warriors. Sounds like I should have heard of it before

[@Zeverinsen]

VRV is the *dumbest thing* I've ever witnessed happen. I tried signing up, but I'm iNtErNaTiOnAl so I couldn't join. Believing that you only need an American audience to make a successful show, is the most Americanly stupid thing I've seen an entertainment company do. Locking Bravest Warriors (and all their other shows) behind a region lock, was an incredibly short sighted move!

[@alexlovesyouvt34]

I loved this series to death since the 3DS had this one application that showed stuff that was getting popular, which included Bravest Warriors. Shame how it ended because it was so amazing. ALSO BEE AND PUPPYCAT IS GOATED TOO

[@CoolerMike]

The good old days where we watched things like Bravest Warriors and Dinosaur Office on our 3DS. Those were the times

[@unclewiley1986]

Ahh the good ol 3DS days

[@Mr_Slime842]

@Ms Aileen Valentine It's not even in development hell. It's in "release hell" and you can actually just go find the whole thing leaked.

[@obi-wankenobi1514]

Nintendo video

[@Nocklee99]

@@Mr_Slime842 Yeah it was leaked like 3 years ago.

[@blackops9696]

I have not thought about Bravest Warriors since 2015, my god! Time flies so fast!

[@zandragondesigns6564]

I adored Bravest Warriors and Bee and Puppycat and it was SO frustrating that VRV was not available for Candians! I'd follow all of the Frederator updates and be waiting for them to bring it over to Canada but it just never happened. Sucked this is how it ended but really nice to see Saber talk about the process behind it!

[@mikeyangel420]

I remember jumping through hoops to finally see the streaming service episodes and being utterly disappointed with how it was a completely different show. It was like watching an alternate universe version where everything is slightly worse.

[@unknownvariable9239]

I myself was a big fan of the first 2 seasons. I wanted it to be the next Adventure Time given who made it, and I expected a bright future for it. Then they moved to VRV and I lost interest. Can’t say they didn’t try tho

[@RaisonLychi]

And VRV was region locked. Nobody outside the U. S had access including many of the Bee and Puppycat backers apparently. 🤔

[@q00u]

The first 2 seasons were *amazing*. But looking back on it now, it was a lot of Mystery Box (tm), making me wonder if they even had a full plan at the time. Season three just spun its wheels and didn't get very far, and season four was a dumpster fire made of sadness. Or maybe I just don't like change? I loved the original Bee and Puppycat shorts (hey, more Mystery Box!), but didn't care for the resulting show. These days I don't even start a show until I hear it has ended satisfactorily (like Gravity Falls).

[@anonymouslucario285]

What do you mean you lost interest? As in you no longer wanted to see the characters or story continue?

[@Toriyamaus]

Since this is the second comment I've seen from you on this video, I'll say it. Your profile picture is really cool and aesthetic. Your channel banner is pretty cool, too.

[@Rikorage]

I think I did watch that Bravest Warriors documentary, and it was pretty cool. That Catbug spinoff will most likely not happen, as the voice actor for the character was a child, and most likely no longer has that same voice anymore. They even stated in the documentary that they had recorded an additional several hours worth of dialogue with the voice actor for catbug so that they can use in the future. If they were even working on that catbug spin-off, they would most likely be using that extra dialogue, so it would probably be very short.

[@niomi.p8288]

please do a what ruined bee and puppycat bc i NEED to know what happened to my hyperfixation

[@goob_goob_gooby_goob]

Honestly, I feel like with shows like Hazbin Hotel & Helluva Boss happening on KZbin and going quite strong as far as I'm aware, maybe Bravest Warriors could potentially return to KZbin in some fashion. Maybe it's unlikely, but hey, it's good to have some hope, right?

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

It has a Shorter lifespan than Project Geeker.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@jonahabenhaim1223 Shorter lifespan than even Space Cats?

[@marenacain]

@Grungus Khan Vivian got sued for a song cover. The entire final part of the season finale has to be re-edited so it's going downhill fast.

[@goob_goob_gooby_goob]

👍

[@3triplezero0]

@@marenacain They're just going to show the season finale at a later date. They're working on season 2 right now. The last helluva boss episode felt more like a finale anyway with the ending.

[@alicebthegachaweirdo8378]

I loved this show. My little sister and I actually still quote this show. Especially the mini episode “Dramabug”

[@MinatheRaichu]

REBECCAAAAAAAA

[@iluvsonicxshadow]

Omg me and my sister would constantly go 'REBECCA' dramatically 😂

[@Penguinmanereikel]

“CHAD?!”

[@samanthavelo]

I named my plants after the Daramabug characters 😅

[@Penguinmanereikel]

@@samanthavelo Sir Jeffers, Rebecca and Chad?

[@GarrettPDGA]

20:27 Teletoon was awesome, had every good animation. Our cable provider back then gave a free trial cable package and then just forgot to turn it off, unintentional free cable score!

[@lpclassic60]

I remember being SUPER fond of Bravest Warriors back when the first two seasons dropped. Seeing something on the level of television animation on KZbin of all places really blew my mind back then, and it's absolutely heartbreaking that it went out the way it did. That said, I would love to see a full video on the history of VRV since I remember so many channels I loved dumping content on there back in the day. And yes, I too am extremely salty about The Summoning.

[@denyarwing]

Since I live in Europe I remember being so upset about not being able to use VRV. Later found out about the comics but paying almost a hundred euros just for a few magazines to be sent here was too much for a teen at the time...

[@gracekim25]

Agreed mate😅

[@highlander2319]

That’s when you start sailing the seven seas🏴‍☠️

[@denyarwing]

@@highlander2319 nah man, already came from the USA. Not going back though. Built up too much here where I live to throw it all away

[@gingersaremad]

You didn't miss much. Season 3 was alright and season 4 was objectively bad. The writing became a clusterfuck so quickly and it effectively ruined the show.

[@retrowave69]

Honestly if I was in charge of frederator, I would've discussed the possibility of funding the show off of patreon where patrons would get access to behind the scenes videos and teasers for future episodes etc... Patreon and the merch store, but I'm not sure even that would've gotten enough funding for the show. Patreon is viable for 1 person or a small team, but an animation studio is so big and costly.

[@jimmyhirr5773]

Bee & Puppy did get a season funded through Kickstarter. Maybe Bravest Warriors could have done the same. I don't think Patreon was that popular back in 2016.

[@Bronze998]

Patreon wasn't around (or at least not mainstream) then.

[@Dogman_35]

Even if Patreon had been a thing back then, that's like... not enough. Patreon's enough to support one dude and some occasional help, making one episode every six months or so, Confinement style. It's not enough to support an entire animation studio going at it like a TV show trying to make _whole seasons_ of a show in just a year. Bravest Warriors only pulled it off because KZbin was giving them a TV studio level budget. Once that was gone, there was literally no way to keep up. If KZbin Red originals hadn't been such a clusterfuck, or if KZbin had just been more selective and less wasteful with the original creators program, maybe things would have gone better. But things just didn't go that way. So here we are.

[@X-SPONGED]

They could've done a Helluva Boss

[@Jay-fs2nw]

Back then, places like patreon was demonized, especially in the animation community. It really was an uphill battle for creators using pardon and I'm glad that it's happily accepted now. Even sponsorships or any type of external funding was hated by most of the KZbin community

[@leavemealone802]

Man, is funny that shows like BW and Bee and Puppycat is something nostalgic for me now. I was young adult when they came out, and I was very excited about both, thinking we would get more high quality cartoon series on KZbin. Nowadays, aside from Catbug soap opera bit, everything was completely forgotten to me. Is sad that the writing of the show had no impact on me at all, to the point that once I saw all the episodes avaliable, I have already forgotten about it

[@k-9-doglabs256]

Back when bravest warriors started, I remembered getting SUPER excited seeing a new episode on my 3DS. I also remembered my anger about the move to VRV. Season 4 was super weak and unsatisfying due to the new writers and such; all the build-up came to a less satisfying end. But the news of the two last seasons being taken down from the streaming service? I had NO idea that happened till I watched this essay. Makes me sad that this once-popular series I grown up to and loved; being buried like nothing. :(

[@jessip8654]

I'd LOVE to see a what ruined Bee and Puppycat. Because BOY did it face-plant with its series. I was so hyped because I'd loved the pilot. Then the first episode of the new series dropped and, well, it wasn't bad, it just also wasn't very good either. The hype for it died basically overnight.

[@rachel_sj]

Same here, I loved (and still love) the show with all my heart to death. I’ll always be fan of the first/Federator episodes and more of a lukewarm fan of later ones

[@lottibeth0516]

Well I know Frederator was having folks give them funding to help with more episodes, then out of nowhere after a crazy long time with no real updates they announced it was going to vrv. So basically the many many people who donated were now unable to watch it, so that was definitely a big part of it

[@shan3622]

It was so underrated We need it as a series

[@kyrohowe3156]

I loved the pilot too

[@antisketch2274]

Aren't we getting a Netflix series for lazy in space?

[@DrAiPatch]

I watched the Bravest warriors far longer than I should have even moved to VRV with them (since I had it anyway) I remember quitting about halfway through the 4 season I even remember the EP that was the last straw (The one where all the Chris's had a Battle Royale for the "Tezuka") the show had just become nothing but a weird teen drama all the unique and fun things it did in the early seasons slowly melted away. You could tell that the new writers did not have enough idea for 52 EP which killed the show.

[@adendavido4466]

Wow I think I ended around the same spot too for the same reason

[@kili_liniani_3768]

I remember seeing it when it started and loving it!!! Sadly, I was still kinda young and didn’t really know english that well, so I don’t really remember much of the plot itself, and after the whole hiatus of no info, I lost it, and eventually I found out a new season had been out, but I had already lost interest so I never saw it. But, Catbug changed me so much with it’s cuteness Xd I remember having the mini episode downloaded on my ipod and hearing it all the time when the lights would go out or was without internet Xd

[@miguelescobedo5112]

I remember seeing the Bravest Warriors and Adventure Time pilots in Random Cartoons and I was super happy to see both of them return I mean Adventure Time is still going fine in my opinion and I'm super sad to see Bravest Warriors suffer a lot because it was a good cartoon series back in the day.

[@Dalton_Boardman2000]

Yeah, Adventure Time earned a rep and became a valued asset to Cartoon Network/Warner Bros. Even after the network forced it to conclude it's still greenlighting spin offs to tie up a few loose story arcs. Bravest Warriors was a cult classic but ended up finding the worst option for a distributor, not even mentioning the changing the creative team. It's a tragedy Adventure Time's sibling show never found the same success.

[@ayu590]

Can you do a "what ruined camp camp" maybe? Unless it's too close to bravest warriors behind the scenes. Better yet what ruined rooster teeth animation would be cool too!

[@collaterale1]

OOoooh boy, RWBY needs its own video. So many dumb decisions they made with that show ever since its creator passed away during Season 2's production.

[@teamili7957]

Omg i haven't watched CampCamp in years. I didn't know it was going downhill, but i definitely want to get back to it one day soon

[@tatsuostatic8567]

Man I lost track of RWBY I used to enjoy the 3 Seasons and Chibi series of it but after that, it wasn't the same anymore

[@Koopacake]

Camp Camp is kind of a shame to me. Unlike Bravest Warriors there was never a dip in quality, but moving to their site was probably what killed it's huge enthusiasm, even tho Rooster Teeth isn't half as bad a streaming service as VRV was.

[@ayu590]

@@Koopacake right! That's why I think looking into rooster teeth as a whole would be interesting, cause the animation team had so many interesting shows that would have momentum but then they'd go silent, like nomad of nowhere. Lots of people liked it and they canceled it randomly, but also I just think the animation section of rooster teeth has just gone south over time

[@mileven3ggo3njoyer]

Seeing this series again is like saying hi to an old friend. Good job Saber!

[@crystaltheglaceon3470]

I'd love to see you address Bee and Puppycat... Because season 2 already exists? It's available on the "High Seas ☠️" cartoon website I use, so I have no idea if they're just polishing it up for Netflix or if they just slapped a NEW!! sticker on the old season 2?

[@riotkitty]

I’ll be honest…I’ve never heard of this. I was on KZbin back then, guess I might have just completely missed it. What a management disaster though, a shame

[@yanipheonu]

This show had one of the most visceral "oh they ruined it" moments for me when I checked out the newer season on TV. Bravest Warriors had that compelling quality Adventure Time had where it was fun kids cartoon that still could be fun for older people, and have occasional moments of depth or edge. The new season? Felt like just another kids show. Felt like watching a knockoff.

[@user-Jay178]

I have not thought of this show for a long time and love your content Saber. Hope you are doing better.

[@quantum5661]

A: same here. feels like forever and a day since i was the me that watched this. B: jesus, what the fuck are these bots man.

[@kyriunx]

my very first contact with the english side of the internet was because of this show, and it's one of the reasons why i speak english today (and also why i am the person i am today). i hold this show super close to my heart. still remember being hyped for the release of season 2.

[@anzahanifathallah]

i can't believe you just mentioned that Season 4 of Bravest Warriors, a show where each season has like 6-12 episodes, is *52 episodes* long, and then moved on without explaining further. like, what kinda stuff did they even write there that could pad out such a huge runtime?

[@lenlordofknowledge]

The memories of watching Catbug’s little drama with Rebecca and the others on my 3DS back in middle school will stick with me forever lol

[@alexalexander-morris356]

I remember the cartoon hangover app on the 3ds it shaped so much of my childhood

[@alexkubrat3868]

Useless fact: Nintendo turned off these services... Why? Because their servers not only couldn't handle servers for Mario Kart 8. But also because their run... And I kid you not... First versions of Windows NT.

[@NovaMaster375]

​@@alexkubrat3868 Nah, it's because they, somehow, put the first episode of Llamas with hats on it. WITHOUT AGE RESTRICTION

[@Progamer-vz8hd]

I remember discovering Bravest Warriors in 2012 on the 3DS video app and being engrossed with it. I watched the series multiple times a kid after discovering it. I fell in love with it and I was a huge fan of Adventure time too and since Bravest Warriors looked a lot like Adventure Time but then forgot all about during that 3 year hiatus since I primarily watched it on YT. I didn’t want to pay for VRV when I had heard it came back and forgot about it again and it wasn’t till the last few months that I’ve started to hear about it. And realized I dodged a bullet after hearing about how they fucked it up which made me sad because I grew up with it effectively. Animation is a fickle industry I guess with how botched a project can get

[@nillawafabutblack5604]

I was just about to comment about bee and puppycat until you said it was a story for another day. I’m so excited!!😄

[@uchihabomber1296]

Bravest Warriors for Netflix would definitely work and I miss watching that show back then too

[@cutebytechic]

I had Bravest Warriors in the very back of my brain, and Saber, you have just dug it out because of this. And I dont know how to feel about it.

[@danielhale1]

Thanks for your fairness to Frederator and others. Clearly they tried! It's genuinely hard to make high-quality stuff without funding, and once you lose that, you have hard choices. Also congrats to Bee and Puppycat! Hopefully it makes it despite Netflix's challenges.

[@ljphoenix4341]

5:34 never ever thought that I'd see a clip of Gymkhana on Saberspark's channel, but here we are!

[@yippykiay13]

I think the biggest issue was communication with the fans. One of the most appealing things about KZbin, that may be one of the contributing factors to the death of television, is you can connect with your viewership on a more personal level. However, I get the feeling the studio execs were a little behind the times and treated the channel as a television network and not taking advantage of the freedom of YOUTube. The updates they gave were rare and cryptic, whereas if they did a sort of video newsletter, even so much as monthly, and not just a Q&A on a site only a portion of their viewership uses, and YEARS later at that, viewers would’ve been much more sympathetic. Would they still lose a lot? Undoubtedly, yes. That’s what happens when you take so long that your viewers grow out of your demographic. But I honestly don’t think it would’ve flopped as hard as it did. Oh, and as a backer for the Bee and Puppycat kickstarter, I find it disgustingly hilarious that they called it a success. Financially, yeah, but they bombed on the product and the timing. Understandable for BW because they didn’t have the funding, but BaP HAD the funding and still took almost as long. They also didn’t deliver what they promised, and many backers, including me, never even received our rewards. Can’t put the blame on KZbin for that one!

[@MathMasterism]

As someone who got a VRV subscription when it came out, I can tell you who this service was marketed towards. It was for people who had both a Crunchyroll and a Funimation account. As while $10 dollars a month is certainly a lot, it was cheaper than paying 6.50-7.50 for each account individually. Plus if you watched Rooster Teeth content like RWBY or Red vs Blue (like I did) then it was an even better deal. Honestly VRV had its fans and it only really fell apart when Sony bought Funimation and pulled it off the service.

[@crimzon16]

Yeah same sentiment there. I got a lot of use of it from Crunchyroll, funi, Rt, and shout factory alone. I recently checked the thing and jeez it really has seen better days

[@Orjahlian]

VRV had some quality content, too. Between those, Bravest Warriors, and Lastman, I got a lot more out of the subscription than I thought I would. Honestly frustrating that so few people have seen LM because it was pretty much exclusive to VRV.

[@FactorialGhost]

@@Orjahlian God I wish we had another season of LM and more ppl to watch that masterpiece.

[@aeonicbutterfly9662]

Yeah, back when it launched I was maintaining both Funi and Crunchy subs, so it only made sense I go for the cheaper option that combined the two. For a few years I got good mileage out of it, as it had stuff I would've never otherwise watched due to apathy-- at least, enough lack of interest to have me subscribe through other channels. DramaFever is one of the things I miss most from the service, and I never thought I'd be a huge K-Drama fan. Now the stat of the service is quite sad indeed. Its glory days went with Funi pulling out, and while HIDIVE was a good replacement, it just felt done. I will miss VRV. It was an experiment, and an interesting one, but it failed, but I felt like it was something special and irreplaceable.

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

I remember it ending with a cool cliff hanger at the end of season two,watched it around when I ended 8th grade, and then I didn’t hear about for a really long time, then I heard it moved to somewhere else that was paid, and didn’t care enough to look further. Made me sad I thought I was good.

[@anonymouslucario285]

You didn't care about the cliff hanger anymore?

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

@@anonymouslucario285 well it’s like it had been so long at that point I had moved on and again it moved to verv so I was like “well if I could watch it on KZbin I would but it’s on this site I have to pay for and I have no money”

[@friendist9323]

that fucking profile picture... I've seen someone else with the same damn one- why, why am I haunted by this pfp!

[@anonymouslucario285]

@@friendist9323 might have been the same person. This dudes everywhere

[@friendist9323]

@@anonymouslucario285 god damnit, he's so elusive-

[@LiSkyFox]

It’s heartbreaking when shit like this happens

[@ddbob1]

I love the sapphire sandalo cameo lol nice. You should make a Bee and puppycat video because their outcome was different lol.

[@toastonline4]

I remember being a massive fan of this show in 2014. I was showing this to everyone I knew back then because I was hyped. It looks like I avoided a lot of heartache by forgetting about it because of all the production issues, so I just put it out of my mind for years. I remember seeing ads for season 4 a few years ago and saying “no thanks” after noticing how cheap it looked by comparison. RIP Bravest Warriors, you deserved better treatment.

[@Supermadison1123]

I remember being 12- 14 and being obsessed, literally OBSESSED with Bravest warriors. I was so obsessed I even paid for VRV to see the season 3 episodes, but after that came out, I lost interest, and honestly, I'm happy I did because I could find other interests after it and grow as a person. Also because someone I know about such as Saberspark was able to talk about this big part of my tween years being obsessed with this show, I no longer look at my phase with disdain but neither do I want to go back to it either. If I hadn't learned about bravest warriors and Bee and Puppycat, I wouldn't have known about Jonni Philips or eventually, Vewn which would eventually inspire me to become an animation/illustration major at Lesley. SO although It still gives me anxiety for whatever reason going back to it from bad memories of being led on for a new season for all that time, I'm glad where I am now because of all those years of anxiety and waiting.

[@fermintenava5911]

I honestly have never heard of this show, even though I've been addicted to KZbin since 2010. But what I've heard in this video makes me afraid for the future of things like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, which both have lost some of their steam over weird right issues. I really hope HB doesn't disappear behind a paywall...

[@markk471]

Thank you Saber, for so long I had this idea that it was just greed and mismanagement that led to the downfall. Now knowing the full story I feel like I can finally apologize to Cartoon hangover (in my own head at least) and realize that the world is just a complicated place and sometimes these things just happen

[@colmmanning9520]

This was even worse as a non-American. I would have loved to watch season 3 onward as it came out, but with VRV not available outside the US it kinda was a giant middle finger to the rest of the world. Really put a terrible taste in my mouth not having any way to watch it legally.

[@KaminoKatie]

Unless if you have a VPN

[@RoxyMoron101]

Can you do a What Ruined Making Fiends. it's really interesting/frustrating how Nick killed it and basically shelved it and now the creator can't do anything with it

[@collaterale1]

Don't make me mention on how the show was moved to Nicktoons before it premiered on the main Nickelodeon channel.

[@tropicaldisaster8135]

It was sooo good! I loved seeing it when I came home from school. Hate what Nick did with it

[@Ubersnuber]

What’s Making Fr.. Nooo! What have you done?! Mein eyyyyes! They will never grow back! AAAaaaaaah asldfjølkjlkjdfg asdf

[@SadEyes1412]

@@collaterale1 Nicktoons was always my main source of entertainment

[@seb99342]

@@SadEyes1412 What about Cartoon Network?

[@patanu]

I'm sensing this is your version of Matt Mcmuscles "Wha Happuned?" but with animation and I'm all for it. Love these deep dives into production history of shows to see what went wrong.

[@victorhurwitz5559]

Interesting.

[@phospho758]

Hi Saber, there is this movie called Dragon Hunters which I think comes from a French animation studio, and I’m sure there are some that may remember some of it. I think it’s worth giving it a watch and have a review for it.

[@chubbz5873]

I am very worried for "Hazbin Hotel" since they are going through a same path in terms of an accessible web series getting picked up by a company to be put on a streaming service What gets me concern is company's meddling in shows to turn in what they want and essentially take the show for themselves and leaving the creators and animators in the trash to be forgotten

[@Kaze0088]

Same. They’re already changing out damn near all of the main voice actors.

[@guilhermehank4938]

@@Kaze0088 wait, what?! Why?!

[@OpossumOnTheMoon]

@@guilhermehank4938 the original VA’s are not apart of the voice acting union. When you do stuff with studios (in this case A24) you’re limited with who you can hire. If they are partnered with the union then they can only use union VA’s.

[@OpossumOnTheMoon]

A24 is a pretty good studio. They usually let people do what they want and let’s the creators have freedom. A good example is Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. It has a lot of sexual humor and violence like Hazbin.

[@madstergarden187]

Which iS such a disappointment especially if you watch the podcast I don’t know about the majority but people grew close with these voices in these streams and to say hay ya they don’t matter where using new voices is such a punch in the face I’m still sour I’m sorry but I hope the voices are good and not just Hollywood actors that want to be in the show and the network is like ya this will give us publicity and MooonNYyyy

[@teddyfurstman1997]

This Series was so cool back in the day since it was a High-Quality show with real Animation and it was a rarity on KZbin under its Cartoon Hangover channel. At least we got Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel. Still salty about Netflix Canceling Jeff Smith's Bone. Hope for more What Ruin's in the future along with Bad Animated Movie reviews.

[@dontshootmex5588]

Let's just hope they won't be going down a similar road

[@AliciaInNevada]

@JHONNY Shut it

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

@@dontshootmex5588 Pretty sure Viv set out to have Hazbin picked up by an actual network or streaming service from the get-go (pilot release was to build hype and have something to pitch), but I distinctly remember reading about Helluva Boss being made with the explicit intent to be a free, web-based side-project to Hazbin.

[@teddyfurstman1997]

@@sluttyMapleSyrup awesome.

[@reidshultz3418]

Great video, first time seeing one of your videos. The end rambled a bit, could’ve been 8 minutes shorter. Still loved the video. Gave up 5 minutes before the end though after hearing about how the VRV move killed it for the 4th or 5th time.

[@jabrak1]

VRV was great for me. I was already paying for a Crunchyroll account and for the same price I got that plus all the other services. At its peak, the value was insane. All the channels they had now have their own services that cost about the same individually. I also wondered what it would've been like if it got more support.

[@fakealias1990]

I’m in the same boat, I thought it was great at the peak; Lots of stuff worth watching and gems to find. If it wasn’t for VRV I probably never would’ve seen Lastman, which is absolutely incredible

[@JeffreyThrash]

From what I personally gathered from this video, it sounds like people were given an ideal situation where they could effortlessly watch the first two seasons of “Bravest Warriors” a professional-quality hand-drawn animation series, for free on KZbin. But when KZbin pulled its funding, suddenly Frederator was put in an awful position to lock the latter seasona behind a paywall on VRV, a service that was hardly a Netflix-killer, because a series with animation as good if not better than Adventure Time CANNOT be sustained by a small handful of rich super-fans occasionally buying their merchandise, they need a proper publisher. Yeah, the funding of an animation project will always make or break said project. Cable TV, as antiquated as it is, will always be the “safest” option if you want your animated dreams to come true with a decent budget and team of talented artists, unless Netflix or preferably KZbin decides to HEAVILY invest in animation again. Which I hope happens soon, because honestly I don’t know how much longer cable TV is going to last. Only the elderly in my life see it as superior to all the other alternatives in any way, and perhaps only because cable “news”-centric streaming services like CNN+ flopped so hard.

[@CaptainTordAnimatesYT]

I used to be obsessed with bravest warriors and cat bug haven't seen it in forever but I still love the series and I have a cat bug plush in my room

[@normietwiceremoved]

If they had literally said 'youtube pulled our funding' and provided a kickstarter, people would have paid.

[@wyattbrown9506]

You brought up Bee and Puppycat- where did that go? I loved that. Also, I loved Bravest Warriors.

[@ordovicianinnova]

The "what ruined" series is really memorable, especially when he reviews lesser known obscure content making him more unique and not the same generic content farmer Carry on the hard work Saber. (Well if you do want to because I know how hard Lamby's death must have been)

[@graythaprince]

Who is Lamby?

[@shaynemack3017]

@@graythaprince Saber's dog.

[@graythaprince]

@@shaynemack3017 ohh ok

[@JeremyLeePotocki]

There was one other issue with VRV, and that was VRV (when it started) was not available to view things on their website you had to install their crappy android or iOS app (this has changed since then). I joined when I first heard about it, but I wanted to watch it on a bigger screen. Plus with me having a crappy cell phone it was constantly buffering every 1-2 minutes so I just said "screw it", and just uninstalled it for good never to return to VRV.

[@iamrich4564]

bruh I just remember using to just watch anime for me it's weird that almost nobody nose what it is

[@lottibeth0516]

I remember trying to use the apple TV app version and it never worked

[@iamrich4564]

Lol

[@darkcoeficient]

Never understood Bee and Puppycat. Hope to see Saber tackle it soon so maybe I can finally get it.

[@crestren5996]

Man I had almost forgotten about Bravest Warriors and wondered that it just ended in 2 seasons. It sucks that the main problem was the funding and how youtube just dropped them like a dime.

[@LobstertheGiggy]

I remember commenting on a video covering Bravest Warriors which mentioned the move to VRV, saying how it screwed over the international audience. I got a reply from a particularly irate member of their staff defending the move for the funding reasons, which I understood in part. But moving a show with international appeal behind a region exclusive pay wall was such an insane move. I remember at the time VRV kept trying to convince people it would become available outside the US but... nothing. I was on their mailing list for an update for years without a hint of a date that this content could even be an option for me. Which sucks because I loved the show! Heck this video is what made me realise the show had actually quietly ended! That's how bad this became for the studio.

[@rubberburger7255]

Man, i remember watching the Season 2 finale when it was released on the last day of school when I was in 5th grade Now I'm on my way to my 2nd year of college, wondering what ever happened to the show after it moved to VRV throughout the years, since i didn't catch up after that. Crazy shit

[@redtygr14]

Also I don't know what makes anyone think that Netflix will ever release a show like Bee and Puppycat when they've held on to the completed show for half a decade.

[@PerishingPurplePulsar]

This didn't age very well... Haha

[@victorhurwitz5559]

​@PerishingPurplePulsar yep.

[@fungus-fearingpeep8731]

Wonder if you will continue with originally free to watch series. Loving what I seen from it so far. This has got me thinking of mattel shows from the free 2010s media like Barbie Life in the dream house's meta doll humor, and Monster high spin off, Ever After high that has a cult following that the fandom knows was squandered with its "write your own story" plot as the brand didn't make enough merch sales.

[@beardedbear9901]

What ruined Voltron Legendary Defender would be a good episode. It's the either going to be low hanging fruit or an entire Pandora's box behind the scenes... Maybe both?

[@collaterale1]

Pandora's Box? You mean the whole Shipping controversy that got the studio in trouble?

[@beardedbear9901]

@@collaterale1 more to it than just the shipping controversy. There's also the compelling evidence that at the last second, there was a huge rewrite and reanimation of the final season. Old character dialogue reused, scenes painted over with different characters. All sorts of drama. But yeah, the shipping d347h threats and fan attempts at blackmailing the studio would for sure be part of it.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@beardedbear9901 Also what ruined Attack on Titan

[@Snicketbar]

@@beardedbear9901 Is there some sort of view or word document that backs us up? Because, the last season was a steaming pile that seemed to come out of nowhere and I'm still baffled as to why it happened.

[@beardedbear9901]

@@Snicketbar All that I'm personally aware of is the work of Team Purple Lion on Tumblr. They make a very strong case for what happened in the final season, including evidence from the show in addition to what little evidence they could find elsewhere. Things like the animation studio saying "this isn't the final series we worked on". The problem being is that last I checked, all the staff and VAs were under heavy NDAs regarding the show. So there's only so much evidence the average person can find. If an animation journalist like Saberspark looked into it, perhaps he'd have more luck? People and contacts within the industry, former VAs willing to talk under the promise of anonymity, that sort of thing. I mentioned it in my OP mainly because *_I also want to know exactly what happened_* especially in the final season. All I can do is rely on what fans have pieced together, but I think if Saberspark made a real deep dive, we could finally get some real and tangible answers.

[@BiigiieCheeese]

The countless terrible relationships that took precedence over the actual story ruined this show. Rather than writing about finding their parents, the writer wrote CW levels of love hexadecahedrons that never payed off because they weren't clever or strategic enough to write something that complex.

[@anonymouslucario285]

Well it's a good thing that most people didn't see it then

[@quartzossie]

Aw jeez. If I had a nickel for every time the crew of a great show torpedoed their plot to focus on shipping, I’d have at least 15 cents. Edit: Dammit forgot about RWBY. Bumblebee is a tumor that should’ve been excised seasons ago.

[@friendist9323]

@@quartzossie soooo, SVTFOE, Bravest Warriors... and... uh... I really want to know what's the third one.

[@jazz3911]

@@friendist9323 RWBY?

[@quartzossie]

@@friendist9323 Total Drama

[@orpheusofdreams]

It took you 10 minutes to reveal that KZbin cut its funding? Damn I hate these kinds of video essays.

[@mep15067]

I had no idea this show was so big. I saw like one minisode and just saw some merch in my peripheral vision every so often. Its wild learning all of this stuff

[@JohnathanKatz]

The Summoning was the most fun I've had with an original "pilot" so far, it's a shame nobody bothered to do anything with it, it had massive potential.

[@diabolix8884]

Porn artists bothered to do something with it lmao

[@TheMightyTablecloth]

oh they definitely did "something" with it. ;) if you know you know.

[@thema1998]

The fourth season of Bravest Warriors actually *did* "dull the spiciness" and was plagued with romantic subplots! 😅

[@Feuerm]

The nice thing is they are releasing the episodes officially on KZbin now

[@Aarolei]

I loved VRV for a time, but when Boomerang left it was all downhill from there. I'll be very interested in the video you may one day make about its demise! Also, please, give me Gary's Demons Season 3, was my fave of the Frederator Originals I watched on there.