What's Going on With Civ 3's Modern Era

[@erichgolden1812]

The modern era is worth it to play through just for the fantastic music, such as StarsFull.

[@suedeciviii7142]

Yes! I personally prefer the industrial era though.

[@kyufuyuvbvbllymjnncuhuhbuh7538]

Industrial era has the 2 best songs in the game and the 2 worst ones

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@kyufuyuvbvbllymjnncuhuhbuh7538 I don't agree, but fair.

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@suedeciviii7142 We all know the best song is the Medieval Conquest game's Middle Eastern theme.

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

Best songs are for sure StarsFull and ModernFull (from either PtW or Conquests)

[@timmccarthy9917]

"You cannot have barbarians blocking the sea route in order to trade over sea tiles." I think the Houthis have made that point pretty clear...

[@Gravitatis]

im surprised youtube didnt automatically delete this comment

[@suedeciviii7142]

Some bonus facts: -You can stack up to 4-5 flaks on a tile, and the anti air will grow proportionately -Pollution can disorder your cities, if you're using the happiness slider, and the polluted tile has high commerce -If you airdrop on top of an existing unit (with heli or a paratrooper), your air drop will fail and you will lose the units you dropped. That's ANY unit. Even if you airdrop on a worker, your troopers will still die. So recon first!

[@GoonLagoon-f3i]

Does the flak trick work with any unit with anti air defense values?

[@SuspishFish]

Worker: Cracks knuckles. "You paradropped in the wrong town."

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

Flak value stacks for up to 4 units only.

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@MrAbgeBrandt Do you have a link to the original CFC article? I couldn't find it and was going off of memory

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@GoonLagoon-f3i Yes, although the exact numbers of where it stops being useful may vary depending on the AA stat.

[@theophileburtz1624]

"If you want the war-time production bonus, just declare war on a shitty civ on the other side of the world" George Bush in 2003, probably

[@Erthgan]

As for me, I like my game as long as it could be, so I can really experience it - I am able to play one game for days, guess I am a little weird, maybe more than a little😂

[@foret-to3cm]

Babe, wake up, Suede just posted.

[@jamessteele7010]

You ain’t kidding

[@kylerowland1227]

FACTS

[@craigrobbins2463]

Thanks suede! This was also super helpful for the WWII Pacific scenario regarding the airfield tech.

[@suedeciviii7142]

I didn't consider that, but everything I said in this video is useful there. Although, one crucial change in that scenario is that bombers don't have lethal land bombard

[@GixxerRider1991]

My strategy for modern age is simple: 1. Build a lot of cities 2. Build an enormous military 3. Get mutual protection pacts with everyone 4. Declare war on everyone 5. Take advantage of the chaos to seize as much land as possible 6. Rinse, wash, repeat

[@dantematellini6464]

I had a game similar to this were the Ai went nuts declaring war with one another until basically nobody was at peace. Shortly after any peace was made it was broke again by another tribe 😂

[@phijkchu_chansey6239]

It's worth it for the music alone

[@NathanaelCrapo]

I hadn't considered playing Future Start before but now I kinda want to.

[@MagicNash89]

Im the opposite, I hate fast games🤣Irrelevant if I win or lose...

[@dantematellini6464]

Interesting stuff! Would love to see your units tier list

[@suedeciviii7142]

Yeah, modern era unit tier list sounds like a great idea.

[@Rabdag-vk8zf]

Nice Vid suede! Maybe you should showcase that multiplayer future scenario you were talking about. Play a series of games with rabdag :)

[@Quantumironturtle]

Your point about bad governments being good in modern applies to Feudalism as well, since it gives a massive free unit supply for small cities. Somewhat relatedly, not having access to this government in Scenario 4 is a massive pain, because Monarchy has terrible unit support for towns and the unit cost can really stall out your research, especially in Roman Catholic civs that are designed around not being able to grow most towns into cities. Being able to switch between them would also benefit all the religious civs that otherwise are missing half their bonus. I'd also love a video on the industrial era, since teching into it or starting in it is such a drastic shift. A bunch of the big changes you highlighted come into play during the early industrial era, not to mention the one two punch of rifleman and infantry to make wars of aggression far more tricky.

[@suedeciviii7142]

You are correct about feudalism, but if I'm not mistaken, communism is just strictly better than it. I probably should have mentioned communism, it is reasonably strong here too.

[@bareodin]

Hi Suede, could you cover and/or rank worker tile improvements? For example, are forts useful? When would you irrigate vs mine? Is planting forests useful? Thanks for your great content!

[@Winspur1982]

Civ 3 has a certain grim realism to it in some ways* that Civ 2 never had, and that Civ 4 abandoned. It was definitely an interesting attempt to improve the franchise. I might try your multiplayer mod someday! * 1. Floodplains generate disease that is only suppressed with Sanitation 2. Recycling provides a production discount but does not reduce pollution 3. Modern ships are very vulnerable to air attack (Pearl Harbor did illustrate this) 4. Fascism government kills off a portion of your population (because someone has to be blamed for food shortages / space lasers)

[@suedeciviii7142]

#2 Made me laugh out loud. Although the recycling center does reduce pollution! But the tech itself, no, hahahah

[@kyufuyuvbvbllymjnncuhuhbuh7538]

Is it just my version of the game or is the scientific advisor's dialogue just broken in the industrial era? When you hover over a tech that you can research the scientific advisor usually says something about it, which works up until Ironclads where he talks about intercepting nukes with Strategic Missile Defence. Is this because of a tech that was removed or added before the conquests expansion which messed up the numbers or something?

[@suedeciviii7142]

I haven't run into this before but it is hilarious And yes, maybe that would explain why. All the new techs added in the expansion packs (Fascism, Ironclads, etc) are listed at the bottom of the tech list, underneath the modern era techs,

[@AhandroV]

👍🕹️🤠

[@noosemebaby754]

Bro how do I make mobile SAMs work against bombers???

[@williamcombis4836]

The biggest thing I don't like about Civ 3 (at least in single player), that gets far worse as you move into the later eras is how they handle strategic resources. You only need one souce of a resource to spam out infinite amounts of the strongest units. Kills most of the fun and strategy in the modern era when it feels like the Civ with the highest productivity wins the war 90% of the time because they managed to spam out more tanks and bombers.

[@suedeciviii7142]

Yeah, it's very binary. Either you have the res and you can keep up, or you don't have the res and you can't fight. One of my goals in designing the Modern multiplayer mod was to make a lot of important res that would do different but comparable things. So let's say, oil unlocks helicopters, coal + rubber unlocks the chinook, a special helicopter that holds fewer units but can hold units that aren't foot units, like tanks, artillery and cruise missiles. I like Civ 6's res management system, but I like Civ 3's combat much more in a more broad way, so it's too bad the system couldn't be combined.

[@GixxerRider1991]

This is why I leave victory point scoring on. You'd be amazed how effective you can be with only TOW infantry, flak, and a shitload of artillery. Build bunkers and avoid pitched battles as much as possible. Wear them down and eventually they will sue for peace.

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@GixxerRider1991 Yes, but only because the AI doesn't bomb your tiles very much

[@dantematellini6464]

​@@suedeciviii7142perfect idea for civ 7..... !

[@phil__K]

anarchy time is linked to empire size??

[@suedeciviii7142]

Yes. It can be as much as 9 turns if your empire is big enough! It depends on map size and OCN too.

[@Ch1pp007]

I'll never get why they changed the minimap. I'm almost certain that on the original civ 3 (from CD) your capital was the centre of the map until you hit a tech (maybe map making). This made sense to me since you wouldn't know if you were north/south at the outset.

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

No that is just in Civ 4 I think

[@Ch1pp007]

@@MrAbgeBrandt I've only played civ 3 though, but the old version not the Steam version. Didn't have all the anti-corruption stuff like police either.

[@suedeciviii7142]

That was never a feature in Civ 3 and was added to later civ games.

[@Ch1pp007]

@@suedeciviii7142 I've got the original civ 3 cd. Investigation to follow.

[@clahck8552]

Can you make peace with a civ you are already at peace with? Like re-negotiate peace to get out of war time?

[@suedeciviii7142]

No, sadly

[@Netugi]

Interesting that the late game governments are only bad/not worth switching to in the base game because their bonuses are less meaningful at the point of the game that you'd unlock them, like the worker move bonuses, and usually aren't worth the loss of tempo from the anarchy unless you're religious maybe. And of course, fascism not causing the loss of population because you have no population to lose lmao

[@suedeciviii7142]

Good analysis. Yeah, democracy isn't awful it's just only situationally better than republic, and near impossible to justify 6 turns of anarchy switching into. If its position was swapped on the tech tree with republic, that'd be interesting. What is it, 200% worker speed as fasc? Absolutely huge! Just doesn't come at the right time.

[@Netugi]

@suedeciviii7142 yeah I remember experimenting with fascism in a normal playthrough as Japan, seemingly one of the best civs to make use of it (quick anarchy, militaristic), where I'd gotten a scientific leader into pyramids. The fast worker moves was thrilling, but completely not worth the tanked economy compared to republic or even communism, and certainly not the same production capability as communism. Just seems like such an incredibly situational government that's almost always worse than the alternatives I do feel like fascism for the AIs, although is overall desirable for thr player, does allow them to really pump out rails, since they under produce workers normally

[@GoonLagoon-f3i]

Can you stack war time and Golden Age bonus?

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

Yes

[@GROller86]

@@MrAbgeBrandtare we sure about this? Because it would be massive!

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

@@GROller86 it is really easy to test yourself :)

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

I believe radar towers do not affect air combat... sadly

[@suedeciviii7142]

Has this been tested? If that's true the civilopedia is just lying. But I remember I ran a test a while back and found it frustratingly inconsistent

[@phil__K]

@@suedeciviii7142 the civcombatcalculator tool seems to suggest so. Also random fact 50-50 odds for destroying an air unit with AA requires 10 AA worth of defense and 1 defense of the air unit. So 1 tenth the combat power of normal combat basically

[@computernerd8157]

I disagree, cruise missile are the best in the game they can kill units if you build enough of them.

[@suedeciviii7142]

They're hard to deploy and not cost efficient. I think they technically do double damage vs planes so maybe that was their intended use

[@GROller86]

Thank you Suede. After 20 years I learned something new : that recycling feature. You made my day 🥲