What's the Deal With New Standard Tuning?

[@Stringjoy]

Let me just head this off: I am aware that the thumb exists and (most of us) have five fingers. I'm considering the thumb as separate here since you don't typically fret with it. Just, you know, wanted to let y'all know.

[@Gothic_Analogue]

Stringjoy the thumb is classed as a finger? I’ve always classed it, regardless of topic, as four finger and a thumb per hand.

[@Stringjoy]

@@Gothic_Analogue I'm with ya!

[@maxwhitten8376]

I love your strings! Just put ultra lights on my Tele. Thanks!

[@silverpairaducks]

@@Gothic_Analogue five finger discount...five finger death punch...I rest my case

[@Stringjoy]

@@maxwhitten8376 Glad to hear it Max!

[@silverpairaducks]

California Guitarists Drop Acid Every Gig

[@Stringjoy]

That's a pretty darn fitting pnemonic

[@silverpairaducks]

@@Stringjoy there was a luther building nest guitars based on ovations for the "league of crafty guitarists " dunno if that's still a thing. I wish I could get some of their materials

[@dcfromthev]

Drop ACID tuning

[@camgreer]

@@Stringjoy Mnemonic.

[@TylerRollins777]

Derek as cool as that would be it wouldnt work

[@solsinclair1909]

'You know how you like drop D? ...you like it, admit it.' God dammit, I doooo 😭

[@Gawdzillest]

Sol Sinclair lol

[@johnwirk]

@ just being lazy and bar chording with a flat finger is why it gets a bad rep. Drop d and or c makes for a really killer alternate pick riff when done right.

[@CUTIE_POXX]

Drop D is lit. Not my favorite, but still a really good tuning.

[@shreddykrueger2408]

One of the staff at guitar center told me "idk why anyone would drop tune an acoustic" and im like dude you can play chords and create a nice open resonance with drop tuning. My teacher years ago taught me how to play basic chords in drop d.

[@TomDavidMcCauley]

Yeah, as if giving yourself more musical options limits your musicianship? Lol. Drop D’s great, everyone should try it

[@Bigbuddyandblue]

“New Standard”? Reminds of when Nigel, David and Derek changed their early band’s name , “The Originals” to “The New Originals” because “The Originals” had already been taken.

[@Stringjoy]

Ha!

[@keithmatthews1673]

Jazz Odyssey in NST. Now there's a thought!

[@shreddykrueger2408]

"No one knows exactly how he died"

[@wadeguidry6675]

Those guys were way ahead of their time. Who would have thought that we'd have amps that go to 11? Genius, pure brilliance.

[@HenryMcGuinnessGuitar]

It's kind of presumptuous to have the word "standard" there at all. I mean if a whole lot of people start using it then OK. But currently about 3 people use it, and zillions use DADGAD (not my favourite tuning but there it is...)

[@JoseRodriguez-pi8cx]

The chords are NOT intuitive! Me: *laughs in mandolin*

[@drew7311]

José Rodriguez lmao

[@ryline666]

You're laughing in a mandolin?.. eh?

[@CJB1103]

哈哈

[@jasonfifi]

i keep a shortscale bass tuned to GDAe(nonwound E-string) like a low-ass mandolin, and lemme tell ya, the chords and scales are hella intuitive.

[@FlaxeMusic]

@@jasonfifi oo yeah. And reading? Now i know why violinists are always good readers, all fifths symmetrically is piss easy compared to standard with the b string involved. Guitarists get shit for reading cause we're handicapped af with the barre friendly accompaniment tuning we're used to.

[@therealdannymullen]

Him: "The C that you'd see in drop C" My brain: "Sí, sí"

[@MaunderMaximum]

I was in the very first Guitar Craft class in 1985. It was an incredible experience that went beyond actual guitar playing. There were multiple guest instructors besides Fripp, and the course included yoga, meditation, dance, and philosophical discussion. It's an understatement to say that it changed the way I perceived music forever. P.S. The Ovation guitar requirement came later. For the first year of Guitar Craft, people just brought their own guitars of any make (but acoustic only).

[@Stringjoy]

That's wild! I'm super jealous, what a cool experience.

[@macplumber]

I had a friend that was involved in guitar craft classes back in the 80's. Personally I thought it was more trouble than it's worth.

[@Geburah82]

Awesome to hear from someone that was there. Would you be open to further conversation regarding some of the philosophy and other matters discussed at Guitar Craft? please drop me a private message if you're up for the conversation, it'd be appreciated.

[@NeoArch]

Yeh definitely jealous! Awesome awesome!

[@NeedyForMusic]

Sounds similar to what Victor Wooten does with his music camps. It's generally a bass camp, but it goes beyond just that.

[@Emlizardo]

This tuning also makes playing triads or seventh chords with spread voicings very easy. For instance, 5th string 5th fret, 4th string 5th fret, and 3rd string 6th fret gives you C minor, and adding the second string 6th fret gives you C minor seventh, voiced root, fifth, third, seventh low to high. Another voicing for the same chord could be 5th string 12th fret, 4th string 10th fret, 3rd string 13th fret, 2nd string 11th fret, voiced 5th, root, seventh, third low to high. Both tasty-sounding voicings. We guitarists are often looking for ways to avoid regular old root, 1st inversion and 2nd inversion triads because they really don't sound so good, and this tuning makes it easy to break out of that, with chord shapes that sit easily under the fingers.

[@aidan7195]

Me who also plays cello: This ain't wierd

[@mal2ksc]

Cello piccolo even has a fifth high E string. I imagine this tuning makes playing the Bach cello suites on guitar a whole lot easier!

[@dankuchar6821]

Rock on Cello Dude!

[@vaughnquinlan6722]

I also started playing cello before guitar. I thought it would be interesting to add a low F, and keep the high E. Tuning would be: FCGDAE. Basically the range of both guitar and bass, with the fingerings of the cello.

[@jerkfacefuckasaurusrex328]

Its weird. Cuz my guitars not a cello.

[@aidan7195]

It's wierd because it's a joke

[@CarnageOD]

I love playing in this tuning. I actually wrote an instrumental that utilizes it fairly well. I’m no amazing musician, but it is very fun to experiment with new tunings. You’re absolutely right. It’s like learning a whole new instrument.

[@wolvetica]

Side note: Devin Townsend has been using open C/Open b tunings. Really lovely sound for the stuff he plays

[@SkaterDuck92]

Yeah bb 🤘 Dev is the best!!!

[@n34z3r]

Dev G.O.A.T.

[@tappistrt]

In 5ths tuning: instead of trying to play major/minor 3rd intervals, try major/minor 10ths instead. Spread those chords out over an octave or two.

[@Stringjoy]

Good call!

[@mallorga1965]

Yeah, with a fifth in between. For example: a triad made of C, G and E, in that order.

[@evetsnitram8866]

You could cheat and get one of these - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqrUdKmOh9tledk

[@scribeofsolace]

So if this seems like Chinese to me, where do I start?

[@kozhikkaalan]

@@scribeofsolace I was wondering the same thing 😁

[@zincChameleon]

The high G is going to be difficult for bends, especially whole note ones. Robert Fripp (I've seen him play live) doesn't do string bending.

[@zincChameleon]

@Michael Miller I"ll agree to disagree. I've seen Robert Fripp live and recorded many times. He is a linear, intellectual player, a mathematician of the steel-string guitar. What he is not is Jeff Beck. A string as light as an .007 will sound 'tonky', especially in chording on a Fender-style amp. Of course, if one only plays Marshall-style distortion, the difference will be negligible, I suppose. (I have both types of amps.) I normally play Fenders, one with a Bigsby palm pedal, another primarily slide. The thicker the melody string the better the sustain, especially unwound. I use a brass block between the Strat tremolo and the wood of the body to increase sustain, also. Finally, I normally bend my strings at least a tone, often a tone-and-a-half, for delicate 'Albert King' style microtones. No problem bending here.

[@biga2]

@Michael Miller Both of you suck. Stop assuming that either of you could ever understand how the other interprets their own instrument.

[@lil4skin867]

@@biga2 Facts; like the other dude said, agree to disagree

[@zincChameleon]

@Michael Miller Agree to disagree (again!). Since we are still practicing netiquette, and since I created the post, let me continue. Let's try a completely different tuning that still follows the rule of 'all fifths'. One could call it 'Zinc Chameleon' tuning, but Shot Jackson probably came up with it in the 1960s. From 1st to 6th: E, B, F#, C#, G#, D#. Note all I had to do was drop the bottom four strings by a 1/2 step. This would work fine with Ernie Ball's 'Beefy Slinky' set; no need for custom strings. An E maj chord fingering at 1st position would be: 1, 0, 3, 2, 0, 0. E min: 1, mute, 3, 4, 0, 0. Easy. I could use this tuning on a Telecaster with Rolling G and B benders (set to 1 1/2 steps up for suspended and seventh chords), and I would still have my pulls for the first and second strings, a trivial change of one fret for double stops on the 2 and 3 strings, and two-note power chords on the bottom three strings. Way more practical than 'New Standard Tuning', but still all fifths.

[@FlaxeMusic]

@Michael Miller I would argue it's meaningful in that it reflects the cultural placement of the guitar throughout time, it's held up for hundreds of years, served us well enough to develop a relatively sound pedagogy. I won't say we're up to date on it or that it should necessarily be the monopoly that it is, but still. It's purpose is to preserve the integrity of the barre shape and to allow simpler transposition at a time when we were seen as a purely accompaniment instrument.

[@TheMadalucard]

The reason for the Ovation guitars is that Fripp was teaching his technique specifically, which involves holding the guitar in a very specific position that is painful to maintain with a larger bodied guitar, the shallow body of the Ovations were perfect for playing and learning that technique on an acoustic so thats what he recommended to his students.

[@Stringjoy]

That makes sense! Thanks for the info.

[@Lantertronics]

If you look at pictures of Fripp over the 70s into the 80s, it's like there's this progression of him holding it at higher and higher angles as he refines his technique.

[@garyreidmusic]

I had never heard this term before, and now I'm glad I didn't.

[@monkeyman12328]

Gary Reid Music same I’ll stick to standard tunning I’m to stupid hahah

[@evilcowboy]

You are 100% right. The reason you don't want to learn it is logical and more so than changing to a completely new tuning. It becomes highly illogical as it invalidates everything you've learned. Who the hell wants to spend 20 or 25 years playing guitar in standard tuning and then turn around and say "you know what I think I will forget everything I learned and relearn an instrument I damn near perfected playing". For this reason you are a logical person as am I. I will refuse to use this tuning because there is no need for it. It makes everything that was fun about playing guitar boring and dull. Like I really want to do drop D up and down the neck and stretch for thirds. The regular tuning has been used so much this is literally invalidating every guitarist who ever lived and I find anyone who does that like Robert Fripp and asshole because he is trying to introduce a musical theory that works fine on other instruments and incorporate it into an instrument that was never meant to be tuned that way. What should have told Fripp it was an asshole move and is stupid is he was breaking strings until he compromised, he failed to reach the high B. That fact alone should tell anyone that its a bullshit tuning. Its just a reason for people to say "I play it completely different" to feel special. What makes a guitarist special in my eyes is being on a stage with people listening. People listening is what makes a great guitarist. That shit sounded too weird and that final note he demonstrated was horrible and had zero melodic value. If someone isn't willing to listen to a person playing guitar in standard tuning and the person goes looking for a magical tuning, hardware, gear, technique or tone. Then that person didn't learn the guitar fully and instead of looking for a magic fix for their shit playing they should just practice like the rest of us did. That fucker should have invented a different instrument not fuck up one already in existence he had no input on the creation of. Thats literally fucking up someone's invention with a very unconventional approach. All other tunings I am fine with, this one just sucks a big fat crappy dick.

[@BirdUpFR]

@@evilcowboy while i certainly agree that nst is not really a replacement for standard, i do think its rather limiting to not learn any alternate tunings. Sure you have to start from somewhere approximating ground zero, but it's not as if the end result of learning a new tuning is to simply be able to play as you would in standard but with new chord shapes and intervals. After having gotten into math rock I've learned facgce, daeac#e, as well as open d and e. It took a fair bit of effort, but i find alternate tunings to be an amazing writing tool, especially when you open up to more jazz type lydian chromatic theory harmony. Facgce especially is covered in maj7, min9, 69 chords as well as a surprising amount of sus chords you wouldn't normally think to reach for. I think Yvette young said it best when she recommended alternate tunings to find new harmonies and melodies that flow much more naturally than would ever in standard. Also Fripp's still a musical genius even if you don't want to acknowledge it.

[@hakan9206]

@@evilcowboy Wow, you're the dumbest person I've seen for a while, impressive.

[@RoryGFan-39]

@@evilcowboy "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." --- Frank Zappa

[@RobertFisher1969]

I think chords should be fairly intuitive if you just think about moving the third up an octave. So, I think a D major triad would be 224xxx. Then you could add the 7th, so Dmaj7 would be 2244xx. Now you can make a lot of chords by just altering those. D7: 2243xx. Dm7: 2233xx. Dm♭︎7♭︎5: 2133xx.

[@joelelvery3092]

I have been using a variant on New Standard Tuning for about 10 years, CGDAEB. Instead of using the high G, I use a rentrant B, so it is lower than the E and a whole step higher than the A. This lets me use fifth tuning chord shapes everywhere on the neck and the B string gives closely voiced chords, which is not easy on a fifth tuned guitar. I can also double a note on the A and B strings, which has a cool sound.

[@cyberoptic5757]

link to sound?

[@edgarmatias]

Your comment should have more upvotes. I did something similar. Having a re-entrant highest string opens a lot of possibilities for chords.

[@bizarrefruit]

While very interesting, something about it being called 'new' standard irks me. This doesn't do all the things standard can do, it's actually tuned like a guzheng, except for the last string, but that comes with loads of disadvantages as well as advantages. The point of standard is that it is the happy medium and can do a bit of everything relatively well without having to disconnect your knuckles to reach any of them. Like so many other things on guitar, the intervals are based on the compromise, even the tuning frequency and temperament are compromises. That is what standard is to me, not perfect, but happy in the middle. This isn't that, it is an alternative tuning not unlike open tunings or dadgad that excels at one or two things but is massively restrictive with regards to other things.

[@dakotafoote6075]

Luckily it's not actually the new standard

[@andsalomoni]

The "old" standard tuning has been developed in centuries of lute and guitar playing, counterpoint playing in particular, and it is the best solution to allow a certain degree of "easiness" in the technique, together with the possibility to play almost "anything". I already have to sweat to play full alternating bass lines in Db Major (without using a capo!), i don't know whether it would be possible to do the same with the NST.

[@BwanaTube]

Like Fripp often does himself, it comes off as laughably pretentious

[@MakeWeirdMusic]

I keep at least one guitar in NST, but only to play Fripp stuff and when I want to get out of my habitual standard tuning licks. It’s mystifying and fun. Thanks for this video!

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

A more easier tuning to pick up and use would be all fourths (EADgcf), which is used by Stanley Jordan and Alex Hutchings or the Gambale Tuning (ADgcEA), which is essentially a reversed Nashville tuning.

[@drewwatterson6694]

I'm just commenting to make sure everyone knows that Robert Fripp is still alive. Seems like y'all are using the past tense as if he isn't around anymore.

[@KameaMedia]

RDE Lutherie They were the loudest band ! The amps were set to 11.

[@williambock6975]

Drew Watterson tell me about it. He stopped by two weeks ago to use the toilet and he’s since eaten everything in my fridge,slept in every bed(snores!),and only bathes twice a week! Can someone come get him ,please?

[@drewwatterson6694]

@@williambock6975 the energy in this comment is so confusing

[@williambock6975]

Drew Watterson it worked! Just had a funny image of Fripp couch surfing and wearing out his welcome. “He keeps tuning my guitars all weird!” “Yup that’s awesome Robert. But can you whistle it?”

[@g4joe]

Married to Toyah Wilcox. Going to make a Shovel like Justin Johnson's.

[@Ninjateg]

I like the video. Would appreciate a few graphics with the tunings that you are talking about.

[@aquabot]

I've got one guitar tuned in that tuning, but a whole step lower, and it's a pretty interesting tuning. Came out with some nice ideas using it.

[@marshfilm]

8:59 - With this tuning all Velvet Revolver riffs become King Crimson riffs... Behold...

[@eddievhfan1984]

IIRC, the Ovation guitars were in part motivated by them being one of the few acoustic guitar manufacturers that could stand up to the increased string tension associated with setting up NST with standard string sets. Considering how often acoustic 12-strings in the folk-rock heyday needed to be detuned and fitted with capos to prevent intense neck warping, this doesn't surprise me. I've used NST now and again, and one thing that I think it excels at that isn't discussed very often is using extended chords with distortion. By having wider intervals between notes (i.e. stacked 5ths and 6ths rather than 3rds), it cuts some of the intermodulation "mud" you get playing non-power chords in standard tuning. Super helpful if you like the kind of diminished, augmented, or outright jazzy tonalities blasted through a Big Muff like you'd find in King Crimson repertoire. Also, IIRC from Robert's online diary (formerly hosted on the DGMLive website), he's elected to refer to NST as "Guitar Craft/Guitar Circle Tuning" going forwards, as he felt that calling it "New Standard Tuning" was either a little presumptuous or didn't quite fit in with what he was trying to do with it.

[@MarceloKatayama]

He also liked the way the ovation fit his body

[@spiritzweispirit1st638]

Great and Informative Video! 'String Joy' Customer For Life!

[@danielburttram]

Great video. Very informative. Could you please do a video on Ralph Patt and Major-thirds tuning. I have been using it for a year now on 6 strings (F - A - C# - F - A - C#) and will never look back.

[@CrimsonKarl]

I've been playing in this tuning for a few years and I'll say a few things about it. First, the high G string is pretty much at it's physical limits as far as tuning goes, so definitely keep some extras on hand as it's the most likely to snap (followed by the A-string- not a bad idea to keep one of those handy as well). Second, the C string loses some tonal definition and exhibits 'tuning finickiness' being so low and you can get some fret buzz to top it off. I almost think the guage should be a bit higher here.. perhaps a 58. That's what I use. As far as playbility, this tuning does not lend itself so well to fingerstyle playing, so if that's what you play, it's not going to work so well. It does, however, have some advantages with a plectrum, and it's no surpise this is what crafties use anyway. You can get chord voicings on two adjacent strings that you wouldn't be able to get in old standard tuning without hitting a 3rd string in between. And yes, it can be 'stretchy' for reaching some of those chord voicings.

[@CraftyMusicTips]

Super video mate. Nice to see something eye opening yet kinda familiar as I've dabbled with mandolin. Do you reckon you'll stick with this for a while to really get something out of it, or are you already onto the next cool new thing?!

[@GoldenLionCarpark]

One thing I love about NST is how full 1st and 2nd position bar chords sound, especially making them maj7ths and 9ths. I use that tuning when I want big Slowdive chords.

[@markwallace8995]

I just ordered 4 sets of the electric strings linked in the description. Looking forward to seeing what I come up with using NST.

[@kevinloignon7943]

I have a Firefly collecting dust. So, I just said the hell with it and tuned t to NST, old strings and all. The low C buzzes but otherwise ok. I played leads over Tinariwen with it. Love it. Found this video looking for correct string gauge. Thanks! Going to have it set up too.

[@iacoposeri3420]

NST and Tinariwen, that must be a great combo! Want to try that too :)

[@Studio-62]

I’ve played mandolin for almost as long as I’ve played guitar. But I’ve never explored different tunings much. But I recently picked up a Boss GP10 and Godin Freeway with the hexaphonic guitar synth pickup and really enjoying it. It makes any tuning possible without changing the actual tuning of the strings. So now I’m going to create a patch called “Fripp NST”. Can’t wait!

[@Stretchwreckedem469]

I might have to try this three steps down from new standard tuning, I think it might be an effective method for getting around using a seven string. 🤔

[@mccloysong]

Call it "Fifths Tuning" maybe, but "standard" assumes it's universally accepted. Alternative tunings will always expand your playing style. Interesting to have as an option, but I'll pass on it being THE tuning.

[@PaulHofreiter]

The name is pretentious I think, no offense to Fripp. Maybe a hopeful name that more would adopt it but time has shown nothing standard about it.

[@yeezet4592]

@@PaulHofreiter it is about the standard correlation between strings.

[@padrhaic]

My own "standard tuning" is D A D G B D (Since ten years now... I don't even remember there is a regular one :):)

[@Stringjoy]

That's a good one!

[@padrhaic]

The B string deepens harmony and tensions (rather than the boring DADGAD)

[@simonpapworth9314]

Neil Young was a big fan of this tuning

[@padrhaic]

@@simonpapworth9314 He used an open D: D-A-D-D-A-D

[@DannyKoldburn]

Double Drop D. Lots of fun.

[@Kiki-hy4ng]

This is really interesting! Thanks for taking the time to make this.

[@Stringjoy]

I did it all just so you'd get 1,000 emails about this tuning I just told you about this morning

[@maxwhitten8376]

Yeah! Thanks for the education!!!

[@Kiki-hy4ng]

@@Stringjoy I'm really grateful for the effort you put in to provide me with more work to do. Gives my life meaning.

[@jellosapiens7261]

As someone who played Cello for ten years, you have to think more in terms of sixths when building chords.The basic chord shape is a barred fifth on the bottom with sixths stacked on top of that

[@jasonday8334]

Leo Fender Inventor of Most Popular Guitar Could Not Play Guitar.

[@HarryGuit]

Jason Day So what? He was smart enough to invite musicians and listen to them. Obviously, he also understood.

[@CorbCorbin]

I’m always amazed that most players still consider the Fender Guitars and Amps, along with the Marshall amps, that were made in the early 60s(for Fender, second half for Marshall), as they best made. So many players still use gear from the era, or recreations if them. My 98’Strat is a reissue of a 63’ if I’m remembering correctly. Even the new analog tape delay effects being made, are pretty true to the originals, while adding a couple features to make them lighter, or easier to use. Buts it’s still an Echorec with drum heads, Roland Space Echo, or some form of Magnetic Tape Delay like an Exhoplex. The fidelity is just on another level from any DSP created thus far.

[@HarryGuit]

CorbCorbin What is so amazing about that?

[@cflowers69]

@@HarryGuit No, he said he was amazed. He didn't say that all of those things were amazing. Why don't you read the damn post before you jump to conclusions?

[@CorbCorbin]

HarryGuit Because it’s been 50 years.

[@mr.limbismusic970]

I haven’t played in standard tuning in over 20 years. I have 6 guitars all strung in a different tunings. NST is one of those tunings. Every time I pick up one of my guitars, I feel like a novice for about 20 minutes until I start finding places to land on the neck. It keeps the creative juices flowing.

[@musikerongpanday4237]

My concern is will this affect my one-string-smoke-on-the-water guitar skill? I hate to customize my low E.

[@jacobsweat9484]

Smo... Smoke on the water is played on the a. I'm a bassist. I don't play chords. I'm an expert at one string notes

[@musikerongpanday4237]

@@jacobsweat9484 I got no doubt on your "expertise" but you don't have to hide on a adult gay pornstar's name Mr.Jacob Sweat.

[@AngryAmerican1776]

@@musikerongpanday4237 who's hiding...;)

[@randymarkley5634]

Would like to see you go into more detail. I was in a huge rut, tried to play more recent KC but couldn’t reach. I read about the new NST and Guitar Craft after I’d given up. I’ll be trying again now.

[@ClumDuddle]

I am glad I was suggested your channel.

[@treydonovan8200]

I've been playing in NST since 1989, the year I first came into contact with Guitar Craft. It's hard to play your old repertoire, for sure, but then you invent a lot of new things you've never heard before. I've built two custom Les Paul-style guitars to bolster the wider voicings.

[@alanoffer]

It’s just as well fripp didn’t become a politician , most people find a new tuning and just use it , fripp wanted to change the world ,

[@NemoNepersonne]

Mandocello is tuned like the same bottom four notes, CGDA, with the same scale, but the low C string gauge is usually around 0.076 for an acoustic so it will be balanced and not too floppy. 0.56 may be too floppy for you. If so, try a heavier string.

[@zackkorth2410]

i've played this way for over a year now, i could never go back. i tune it a half step down though- E (because of tension, and because i'm lazy and this lets me do certain things) D# G# C# F# B (intonation is a nightmare, i usually tune it down a bit if i'm going to be playing along the frets just to keep intonation straight, tune it back up to B for chugging) I had to take the springs out to move the B and F# as far back as i could, it was the only way to keep it intonated, i also tune that B up to C sometimes but not that often, i should, because it's much more intonated that way, but i just like the heavy-ness of B. why do i stick to this? because i am lazy, chords are easy and consistent along the neck, scale patterns are easy and consistent, i don't have to memorize anything, i can just think key of F# dorian (or anything else) and i already know the pattern up the entire neck as well as the chords. also different chords like c 7th (etc etc) are always the same fingering cons: shredding requires more movement of your fret hand, chord voicings are different, not what most people are used to, for example: B major chord - - (or 8, B) 7 (D#) 5 (F#) 5 (B) - (or 0) the octaves have been altered- typically the next note in line after your B note would be D#, but it's F# here and the D# is in a higher octave, so too would be the B if you fingered that 8th fret while if you hit the open B on the lowest string, you would have 3 B notes all in different octaves which is overwhelming in a mix in my opinion and it just doesn't sound like the B major that exists in your head from playing standard tuning. i like it, it doesn't take long to get used to it, but i find that on smaller scale guitars, you would definitely probably be better served to tune it the half step down like me, i just think it sounds better, if your guitar sounds better a half step down in standard, it will sound better a half step down in new standard as well.

[@ChuckSneed88]

a video on Fripps takes and takes on NST on bass in general or just weird bass tuining and string set ups would be sick too

[@robertlittle7314]

I ended up putting a .060 gauge for the low C. I tried .058 and it felt unstable, shall we say. My (electric) gauges: .008, .011, .017, .026, .042, and .060. Oh, and take the time to adjust the bridge for better intonation.

[@caiocury7655]

Mandolin player here... I think the biggest issue with fifths on guitar is that regular scales become four notes per string, wich is fine for small instruments like the mandolin or violin, but is very difficult on long scale instruments... The solution is using cello fingerings, wich require a lot of stretching and jumping around... Pentatonics become 3 notes per string and also quite stretchy

[@filemakerpro4050]

Wait ... you had never put the set of strings you designed for NST on a guitar or played it? How did that work? + you have my Epi - same color everything but my Pelham Blue ES has those super quiet, but super loud and bright humbuckers rather than p90s and the fret board is all inlays and not dots. Great guitar. Great taste!

[@josequiles7]

Did you change the bridge saddles intonation to that specific tuning? 🤔

[@facciosean1]

I agree about helping with getting out of a rut. Sometimes you just have to shake it up!

[@toemasmeems]

This is intriguing but idk if I’d call it any form of “standard” because If 80% play in EADGBE...that’s still the standard...

[@nechastivi3187]

It's actually about standard correlation between each string.

[@toemasmeems]

@@nechastivi3187 bro youre thinkin too hard. look up the word "standard" and its literally in the word itself.

[@nechastivi3187]

@@toemasmeems yeah, but there is D standard, C standard etc. Drop tuning is not standard bcs. correlation between lowest string is not standard with other strings. That's how I understood tunings on guitar.

[@FuraFaolox]

@@toemasmeems You need to learn more about music. Nikolay is right.

[@toemasmeems]

@@FuraFaolox okay so you probably dont speak english properly and dont understand what the word "standard" means. anything other than a standard would be considered "alternate". this is basic english dude.

[@intravena]

Are there any songs that use this tuning?

[@Slormer]

Sweet video Scott, keep these comin'! "They're... they're a normal size. They're normal." hahah

[@AriKoinuma]

The riff he plays right around 9:00 what song is that from? I should know but I can’t quite place it.

[@vaughnquinlan6722]

I started playing cello before the guitar. I had a similar thought of tuning in all fifths, but keeping the high E, and tuning down to a low F. As in, FCGDAE. You’d have the range of both bass and guitar, and keep the fingerings of the cello.

[@Emma-kz3zr]

You Sir, get a thumbs up just for the Peavey VK and also your size of hands comment, which made me chuckle.

[@mkklmann]

Try swapping the C in between A and E (G,D,A,C,E,G), you get an interval pattern of 5,5,m3,M3,m3 and if you shift it up a fifth (D-A-E-G-H-D) you will notice it being an inside-out-inversion of Standard Tuning. I like to call it Open Standard Tuning, just because I came about it myself and consider it an open standard (Joni Mitchell wrote at least two songs in this tuning, just based on searching her website, but to my knowledge doesn't claim copyright on any tuning), besides it's a pun on open tunings (because as you'll discover it has the chord value of a first inversion 13th chord). I've been using it as standard for five years, it lets me do chord inversions more proficiently, and gets a feeling of plaing a banjo, because all the interval jumps after the first fifth stack are unique and contains no repeats like on a 5-string banjo, and the fifth stacking (note that m3 + M3 = 5) you might know from mandolin/tenor banjo. Great for integrated melodic patterns on the four lightest strings, hence why I first called it Mellow-D (yes, it's a pun on 'melody' and drop-D, because it's also a double drop tuning, with the fourth string flopped, that in my experience lets you integrate bass bar "power" chords (made a single fifth) with third "mini" bars to harmonize on top of that, allowing to play more harmonized tunes as The Entertainer and Super Mario Theme sliding around thirds for a piano-like effect).

[@angelotti2058]

Nice vid! but if I could point something out it's the fact that you say the options for 5th tunning way to fast and we don't get any visual aid, so I had to pause and rewind the video in order to fully grasp what you were talking about

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Do something on Nashville tuning. I keep one box tuned that way. Great for strumming.

[@amadeusfuzz4320]

I've been playing in super chaotic tunings and have been looking for a new direction. This looks great because I already play cello and violin. Now I can tune it like a REAL string instrument!

[@tofubob10102]

If you could have still-frame pictures in the corner displaying what you're mentioning in the moment without a guitar, that would be super helpful!!

[@calebblack1420]

can you tune a strat this way? I cant figure out how to do it

[@marccarter1350]

I learnt to play in open E. EBEG#BE. I always wonder why I sound a little off or wide in most songs I attempted to play, follow along with. But the blues I locked in with tight. This was the days before the internet. This went on for 3 years until I was 17! I went to a local guitar shop to buy a new guitar, they were all tuned funny. I could not play them. I had to re-tune the guitar I liked to be able to play it. This is still my standard tuning. I returned back to it after learning regular tuning riffs, which does feel or sound regular to me. :-)

[@TKOthunder]

Would a bass player (Me) be able to take advantage of this tuning? I play melodic bass and I would love to learn the beautiful sinister feel of King Crimson and I think this might be the biggest clue

[@MichelleHell]

I tune my guitar in 4ths starting with low E. So it's EADGCF. I did this to get rid of the third between the G and B strings and make the scale patterns the same on every string set.

[@cyberoptic5757]

what do you see as advantages and disadvantages for song accompaniment?

[@MichelleHell]

@@cyberoptic5757 I don't think its as good, and I've got a new instrument along the way ( an electric mandolin) and plan on tuning my guitar to B standard for low end rhythm playing like in some heavy metal music. The reason it isn't as good for accompaniment is because it puts notes further out of reach on the C and F strings. Also, I've had to learn chords by figuring them out myself instead of looking online or in books. But the cool thing about guitar is how many different ways there is to play something, so it can still work especially if you're playing chord melodies.

[@markdavidofficial4274]

It’s weird, even when he started playing on just power chords, my immediate thought, “yep that’s Robert Fripp”

[@chrismaxwell2274]

He literally said the dudes name 1 minute in.

[@markdavidofficial4274]

Chris Maxwell well no shit Sherlock. It’s more saying that even when he’s playing something simple and ordinary like power chords, it’s in the vein of Robert Fripp.

[@xerodelacroix5552]

I use CGDAE without the high B. So basically cello with an extra high 5th. I use one less string and still have more range than standard.

[@Amatteus]

So you have the guitar with 5 strings?.. why not a B at the 6th string?

[@claudevieaul1465]

I was already used to fifths tuning on my cello, mandolin, and low side of my Chapman Stick. And I have my fretless bass tuned in fifths too (AEBF#). So of course I 'had' to have a guitar tuned like that too 🤣 But I did take the Fripp tuning a half step lower, so low B to F#. This creates less tension, it suits my other guitars and basses better than starting from that C, and of course it saves money on constantly replacing those high strings 😎👍 (on which I prefer a 0.08) It's good fun!! 🤘

[@ThePuertoricanBeastJonathan]

This feels almost Illuminate, been listening to a lot KC and watching some Guitar Craft videos

[@Stringjoy]

We're on the same wavelength it seems

[@solsinclair1909]

A friend liteeally introduced me to Red two nights ago, then the algorithm strikes

[@tarkenton3895]

If I were going to do this I'd likely take it down to a baritone A so that it was AEBF#c#e rather than CGDAeg. The high g is notorious for breaking in NST and if the whole thing is down a minor third with a high e, I think it would work far better with slightly longer than Gibson scale lengths

[@jaedii7287]

I don’t know much about baritones but wouldn’t an e for the high string have a lot of tension?

[@tarkenton3895]

@@jaedii7287 you can still use standardish gauge strings to get standard register on a baritone. There are 7 strings with baritone scales after all. The only challenge with using something like 11s for tuning up to a high e is there's some serious tension so you do have to go a tad lighter for any expressiveness in vibrato etc (I use 10s for a high e on a 27 inch scale anyway) I'd more than likely do it on a multiscale or a 26.5 inch scale anyway.

[@NormanZealandMalana]

How does this work for classical music? Specifically, the ones originally written for piano? Thanks!

[@ericscaillet2232]

A whole new minefield...

[@mal2ksc]

Last I heard, Fripp was actually sufficiently pleased with string lifetimes to resume tuning the top string to A.

[@bajojohn]

I play mandolin and I wondered why the guitar isn’t tuned in fifths. I got some cool sounds out of it, but the stretches were really limiting, especially compared to the mandolin.

[@walterw2]

and maybe that's why mandos and violins aren't in fourths, your fingers would be all crammed together trying to make a chord

[@rockermetalhead1200]

What’s the name of that funky track you put while you were putting on the new strings on the guitar? That track is fire!!🔥

[@staxzdemon]

9:00 for the velvet revolver bit

[@BrandochGarage]

On google close captioning, it has you saying that you design string hats. I think that's great.

[@theofficialdiamondlou2418]

Interesting elec. string size. I use my custom sizing @ 10/14/18/26/38/50.

[@The.Known.Universe]

Seems like mostly normal string relationships upside down and backwards for the most part. You can kind of always bar the notes of a power chord anywhere; they're just inverted

[@The.Known.Universe]

Sort of interesting given that fripp is left handed by nature. This seems to me to be sort of what someone who plays lefty would get of they flipped over a right handed guitar except re-worked to be ascending

[@Wanielyo]

How’s it for tune playing? Could look up some fiddle/Mandolin stuff on it

[@gabreeul9341]

I really would like to try out a fifth tuning which would go A1 E2 B2 G3 D4 a4 with the gauges: .07 .12 .18 .34 .50 .64 but i think it would be need a really specific guitar with multiscale lenght for the good entonation

[@gordondeitz7838]

The concept and introduction of the zero fret for guitar as I see it is a great advancement for the instrument. I had read some about it and wanted to try it out. I bought a Rouge acoustic mighty cheap and added the frett myself and almost on the spot gained the advantage. Go to a music store and see if there's one on ✋ TKS.

[@mykhedelic6471]

That is a beautiful guitar. I enjoyed your opening foray into NST, especially the high end/low end juxtaposition.

[@AdrianFarrell]

Fripp's workshops always included the Alexander Technique which is taught in all the major classical music colleges to improve performance and overcome/prevent playing related injuries. You can read a bit more about it here: www.alexander-technique.london/the-embodied-guitarist/ And www.alexander-technique.london/articles/what-is-the-alexander-technique/

[@waynevanvorst9396]

Seems like just the thing for playing Message in a Bottle for people with normal size fingers

[@foodank_atr817]

So a long time ago I wanted to learn Pantera. Mouth for War. As a new player, I relied heavily on drop tuning to learn all the Tool and Pantera. But Mouth for War is in standard E. I couldn't move my claw grip power chord fast enough, so I tuned the 5th 4th and 3rd string _up_ so I could play those power chords in drop configuration. It was a neat sound and I wrote a song in that tuning that I've forgotten by now. Not much later I was trying to learn some Kitty songs (I know, I know, this was '02, okay?) And I downtuned the bottom 4 strings very much this same way so that 1 finger could play a full drop power chord, it was a full, deep, aggressive sound, then my friend got annoyed because I screwed up his guitar tuning.

[@MrFlint51]

Would this tuning work better with fanned frets?

[@YVZSTUDIOS]

That's very interesting 😄 I'm pretty new at playing guitar and just by playing around a bit recently I've found out how difficult it is to play certain power chords and thought: Why not just tune the guitar in 5ths? 😂

[@garydunlevy5673]

Can I just say, as a beginner who is poor as a church mouse. I have been using the same app to tune my cheep (but loved more than words can explain ) acoustic guitar nylon strings "but I am finding the music that is just out of hearing but is fantastic once found. .using the standard tuning and the electric guitar; don't snigger, gear for music! Which I think the young man who sold it to me could never tune it. The bridge is terrible. I am asking for advice on what i think i had got on top of? Anyway the standard tuning never seemed to work the individual strings was tuned but as soon as you play it. ...no no no. .so I have been learning to set the harmonics up with each note that each string is well i say am in E but the harmonics says E3 so the E2 tuning. .all the harmonics are always one number up on the standard tuning? The best i got so far. Like I said I am sure that anyone buying one of the strat copy by this outfit will be in trouble with tuning. ? I have been playing around with blue's in the background and listening to the master's who we can only imagine getting licks like that. But I digress beginner's like me. Is this common with cheap electric guitar? ?and how much don't i know about setting up the guitar. Please let us know what you guys who are years ahead of me suggest also be more considerate when showing how to do anything. Because I see the guy who is giving free lessons but unless you read music or tab his fingers don't consider us as they play fast and cover the thing's I am looking to learn. But thanks for your help and support. Yours sincerely the absolute beginning of the biginner Gary 😢

[@michaeladamcaira9174]

I use an open E tuning especially for slide ,and drop c is great

[@dRiv3R0000]

I play in drop A# tuning on a baritone guitar. Could you tell me why the 3rd string (the thickest non-wound string) always sounds so terrible?

[@Ajz092]

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I use a 7 string and tune my low B down to an A, effectively giving me drop A tuning. Musically to me it makes a lot of sense. If I'm playing an 8 string though, I leave the low B, but tune the F# down to a low E. Personally I think that should be standard for an 8 string but to each their own. I think it'd also be pretty interesting to tune an 8 string up a fifth making it high A- Low A tuning. a,e,c,D,G,A,E,A.

[@davidbriggs9675]

If you have a Variax guitar then you could simply set it up in the Alternative Tunings option...no more broken strings. Result ! But, what's wrong with EADGBE anyway.

[@kidwajagstang]

OMG! I was thinking about what guitar I might want to try it on and was eying my 339 P90 Pro and lo and behold! That’s exactly what he used!

[@TeiscoCurlee]

I used to play a lot in a similar tuning, but from a low rubbery F up to a high E, so straight up 5ths, mostly because I wanted to have bass notes available on my guitar for some faux Charlie Hunter things. Funnily enough i used my red Casino Coupe, very similar to your guitar in this video! If anyones interested, there are some vids on my channel

[@Holonomics]

I don't know too much about Robert Fripp so this was a really interesting and educational introduction explaining what he was doing. I guess maybe this works for people who have a spare guitar to restring :)

[@pogchamp7983]

It's in 4ths cos it makes typical chord shapes easier to play. Violins are more melody hence 5ths for easier leaps

[@GarryGoodman]

I have been making custom strings for 5ths tuning for Mandolin plays who want to tune in 5ths on a guitar for about 10 years.Usually for the 24"-25" scale lengths, and 26" scale length guitars with open A4 (440Hz) .008 as the top open string that can handle reasonable "Whammy Bar" use, and they don't break easily. I don't play in 5ths tuning though LOL