'What's The Difference Between That And Camping Out?': Thomas Questions Lawyer In Homelessness Case

At today's Supreme Court oral arguments on a key case that could effect homelessness enforcement, Justice Clarence Thomas questioned lawyers.
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[@abcdefg12089]

i'm assuming this is a case about homeless on public property, not private property?

[@putinscat1208]

Of course. It is about people being giving large fines for sleeping or other activities at certain times in a certain city. Or basically, just sitting with all their stuff on a public sidewalk. The Constitution forbids a capitation tax, a tax for just living. While fires can be banned, unsanitary mattresses, etc. Can a person with a blanket be fined for trying to get some sleep is the jist of this.

[@walterengler5709]

Yes. The 9th Circuit basically ruled that government agencies in that district cannot fine or arrest people for being homeless unless THEY (or others) provide enough places for the homeless to sleep. So while they can enforce basic laws like sanitation or safety (no camping in a road for example), someone building a camp or tent in any public location basically becomes untouchable under this interpretation, as long we there are less FREE NO COST cots and rooms for them to sleep in. And based on other rulings, they can't do anything simple like set up 1000 cots in a set of Gyms. And per cases relating to prisons and other such items, it becomes unreasonable as they are too crowded and not safe enough. Basically the court created a new right, the right to live in the open UNLESS government or some agency provided you a sufficiently safe and reasonable space to live in. For example the lawyers for the homeless here argued that even IF the city had plenty of free cots, for the homeless to travel to them would be cruel and unreasonable if these cots were not the area they wished to live in (IE you had better provide the fee cots and homes where they want to be). Which would imply the unreasonable to cities building of homeless shelters on almost every block in a place like California (with 38% of the nations homeless now in part due to this ruling). The purpose of this ruling for the liberals was to create a problem with the homeless by allowing them everywhere, to the point people get sick of it and say fine take more money get all these people places to sleep. It's not about right or wrong, it's more about forcing people to give up their money. We can only hope the court rules against the advocates for that group and gives cities and towns the ability to force them to leave some areas.

[@christophersansone2755]

@@putinscat1208 There is a thing zoning. The sidewalk in front of your business or apartment is public property. So, according to you, as long as the mattresses are clean the bums can sleep there. Where will they piss and poop? You can zone certain areas of the city for dope addicts and bums to sleep, piss and poop all day long. Every city used to have one. They were called skid rows.

[@andrewmo49]

I pay property taxes on land that I own outright. Why should someone else be able to just camp wherever they want and my taxes have to provide them housing and a bed because it is where they prefer to live? I’m not generally opposed to helping the homeless but it can’t be anywhere they decide is convenient. Otherwise I should be able to camp anywhere I want on public land. Should I also be able to camp anywhere I want on public property? Try that in Washington DC in the capital and you’ll get put in jail for years.

[@putinscat1208]

@@andrewmo49 I don't know, why should these same people not take your land and leave you dead. I don't think you quite understand the purpose of taxes. They are not meant that you get a dollar for dollar return.

[@O4C209]

When I was homeless (multiple times), I slept in friends' living rooms, relatives' backyards, and my car. So, camping on a sidewalk isn't the ONLY option of a homeless person. Not to mention homeless shelters being available. The issue is that sidewalks and streets have a designated use for ALL the public. An individual camping is taking the use of that property from the public. It's essentially theft. Many homeless people choose to be homeless. They are offered help constantly and say no thanks. I'm saying this as someone who was homeless, have friends who were homeless, and work with the homeless. When you allow people to live in "permanent" tents on the street, you are being an enabler.

[@mikewilson2122]

What if you didn’t have friends with a living room , or relatives with a backyard. Or a vehicle. What would you have done.

[@makeitmakesense2616]

You weren't homeless if you had relatives living rooms and backyards and a car. Not the same thing

[@Thearvdr]

You were not homeless otherwise you would have compassion towards others. Obviously you learned nothing from your time as a homeless.

[@breezybreeze12]

@@Thearvdrevery state has homeless shelters. What is the purpose behind sleeping in tents crowding public space? Skid row is horrendous and you see similar tent cities in Philadelphia and Oregon

[@MichaelOliver-ry7fj]

Oh, "Quit being so stingy" Or this One; "Sidewalks For Every-body"! I even do my toilette thereon!

[@SomeGuy-cw9rw]

California can't account for some $24 billion spent on homelessness. What has been the impact of all that money having been spent? This is shameful.

[@Crangaso]

Newsom lining him and his cronies pockets

[@hiyellagal]

SHOCKING and OUTRAGEOUS!!!! How the HELL do you not account for $24 BILLION?!?!? They get away with it because there is no accountability!!!!!

[@godsbeautifulflatearth]

Pelosi needed new patio furniture... 🤔

[@JohnSmith-ti2kp]

@SomeGuy-cw9rw-- Some of that money will eventually make it's way to Newsom's campaign coffers.

[@ericw9702]

@@godsbeautifulflatearth it got smashed up last time Paul got hammered.

[@AndreBelleque]

...the difference is when you camp out you have a home to go back to when you are done.

[@weirdshibainu]

Exactly, plus most campsites now require permits and reservations.

[@marymacdonald2379]

People who camp out who also have homes usually (1) camp in organized camp grounds with access to restrooms, water, trash cans, and fire pits or (2) camp in wilderness and pack out all their trash. When people camp on city streets, there are no sanitary facilities and no trash bins, so it becomes a dirty mess.

[@BigRed2]

So if i have no bathroom i can just pee and poop on the street?

[@MiltonJava]

Yes, what a stupid thing for him to say

[@thatguyrich9822]

An even bigger difference, when you camp, you're at a campground (or similar facility) whereby camping is approved.

[@michaelg6686]

Newsom cleaned it up for the Xi visit.

[@TheQuack-t5t]

If you have ever been in a city with homeless encampments on sidewalks you know that first its a violation of the local law, and second senior citizens and the young have to walk into a busy street just to get around these encampments. You are putting these law-abiding citizens lifes at risk just so vagrants can sleep outside

[@williamryder5021]

Sometimes seniors and the young are also the homeless 🤷‍♂️ ... omg I'm sorry I should say this 😂🎉😅

[@williamryder5021]

If they have no where else to go where do you send them? Or put them? If the jail is full then? Etc.,

[@TheQuack-t5t]

@@williamryder5021 As you know, hopefully, that this is mental illness. But the crux of the problem is not available housing or help, which many cities have and fund. The problem is these people do not want to use these service. And due to the unfortunate "Mental Health Patient’s Bill Of Rights" we cannot make them. So they are just allowed to break laws and ordinances. Doing nothing is not the answer. In the meantime, I see it every day, people being forced to walk out into the busy streets just so vagrants can occupy and trash a complete sidewalk

[@aaroncostello8812]

If a person camps permanently on public property then thst property is no longer public. It is de facto private property. I can't use the section of sidewalk a homeless person is permanently or semi-permanently occupying. Actual campgrounds have rules and ordinances against long-term occupancy. It is bizzare to me that major cities can't have such ordinances regarding sidewalks and parks.

[@peterrose5373]

Those campground rules are usually imposed by the municipality.

[@aaroncostello8812]

@@peterrose5373 Yes, they are. But they are still legally imposed.

[@HaimTabibi]

This is exactly the issue. The homeless lifestyle culture commandeers the public areas so that no one else may use the public areas.

[@morris9786]

We just spent 60 billion for Ukraine and we cant take care of our own problems?

[@steveb796]

We can do both but some choose not to do so.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

@@steveb796 No, we can't. We're borrowing money and giving it away while turning down our own necessary programs for funding and cutting benefits from citizens to give to I.I.'s

[@Jeremy_the_unfallible_n-a]

60* billion

[@franklinturtle9849]

Ukraine got $60 billion not $16 billion.

[@Nostradevus1]

@@steveb796 Have you seen inflation lately? No we cannot. We shouldn't be doing either, but if I was absolutely forced by a tyrannical government to give my money to some bullshit social/empire building cause funding wars in other countries would be dead last.

[@PhrontDoor]

Apparently you can be fined or arrested in that area if you are CAMPING and homeless. But if you are camping in the same area but not homeless, then it's OK. Bottom line - they are making homelessness itself the crime. Conduct, not status, are criminal, and that's been the legal predicate in America since America itself.

[@larky368]

Wrong. If you are on someone's property, THAT is not illegal. But if the owner tells you to leave the cop will trespass you which means he can order you to leave. If you leave you do not get arrested but if you remain or if you leave and return you WILL be arrested. Camping in the wrong place will not get you arrested because camping is temporary by its nature. The cop knows that the camper will pack up an leave if he's told to but a bum camping intends to stay or intends to return and that is why "Homeless" encampments are illegal.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

Simple. Camping isn't permanent and requires designated areas. You can't camp anywhere you want either.

[@Guy4UnderDog]

Camping laws are just an older example of outlawing homelessness

[@tomriggs699]

@@Guy4UnderDog Can't wait for them to move in front of your house or business.

[@davidcooke8005]

Apparently Judge Thomas hasn't tried camping out lately. You need permits from the forest service or park to stay over night. They want to know how long you are staying and what your itinerary is. They regulate how many people can stay in any given campground at any time. They frequently charge a fee for these services.

[@barreloffun10]

I think that is what he is saying. That if camping can be regulated then why not homeless camps?

[@BastiatC]

@@barreloffun10 because camping is voluntary

[@barreloffun10]

@@BastiatC So is where you sleep.

[@BastiatC]

@@barreloffun10 yes, which is why it is not unjust that I must pay money to sleep here. No one however sleeps on the street because they want to.

[@barreloffun10]

@@BastiatC Some do. Others make life choices that lead to them sleeping, crapping, and doing drugs in public. The public shouldn't have to put up with it.

[@Uncommonsenses]

Every person arguing for the right of homeless people to camp out in our public spaces should be required to accommodate at least one encampment of homeless people with substance abuse challenges on their front or back yard.

[@1k1ngst0n]

[@tylerchapman9234]

Yeah let's punish people with differing opinions

[@Uncommonsenses]

@@tylerchapman9234 Punish? What ever could you mean? Homeless people are just like you and me, innocent children of God who have, through no fault of their own, wound up being victimized by an unfair society. Having homeless people camped out in your yard should be considered a reward or even a badge of honor. Honestly, I am offended that you consider homeless people to be less than human. It is sickening and maybe you should check your privilege.

[@jasonjames4254]

@@Uncommonsenses 🤣😂🤣No truer words ever spoken!

[@Frostbite08]

I don't know which country actually has the most personal freedom, but I know it's not one where homelessness is a crime.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

Go to Haiti

[@wellarmedlamb2447]

Homelessnes is not a crime...pitching a tent in front of my house is!

[@deskmanatee]

Are we winning the fight against homelessness, or are we funding it? People are stupid and don't know how the world works, and so you get comments like Frostbite's.

[@HaimTabibi]

Homelessness is not a crime. Commandeering a park for rampant drug use is a crime. That is what this case is about.

[@freedom5325]

No law saying you have to rent or buy a home, but depending on where homeless status areas are might pose a problem.

[@Derideo]

@jim-oq9px That's a very good point. Also, taking away mental asylums and kicking them all to the streets was a very bad idea.

[@jasonjames4254]

@jim-oq9px Not true! Free public camping is available on BLM and National Forest lands all across the country. There is an entire nomadic sub-culture on KZbin.

[@larrylaforest2035]

If these people went to a campground I don't think anybody would have a problem

[@ICUnity]

These people. Of which I am one are exactly where they tell us we have to be.

[@Allthhegoodonesaretaken]

How would they get there? How would they feed themselves? Why are you ok with people being fined when they have no other option?

[@WubiWatkins]

Make sure they add in there that many seniors are living in their cars and they're not given any credit for the fact that they have to spend four to $500 in gas and maintenance on their car just to keep legal and we get no credit for that and no food stamps we built this damnation show some respect

[@BastiatC]

The fact that you built this is exactly why no one respects you. You were handed the greatest country in history and in one generation you turned it into this.

[@jasonjames4254]

Move! There are states and cities with subsidized senior housing and Medicaid that pays Medicare Part B/C premiums. My friend gets just over $1000 a month in Social Security and pays $335 a month in subsidized rent.

[@WubiWatkins]

@@jasonjames4254 I know this but in 11 years they've changed the way they do their housing lists four times now I'm down to just living in my car they had me on hospice they came out twice and said I'm taking too good a care of myself can you imagine that and I'm dying with cancer

[@ronaldwheeler6060]

Illegals are given Welfare, Medicaid, and first rights to housing and jobs. All at US Taxpayers expense. Yet we can't help the American homeless people. Some of these homeless people suffer from various problems, mental illness, drug and alcohol addiction. We also have homeless US Veterans that our government has turned their backs on. Whatever happened to caring for the poor and needy.

[@MercenaryMuse]

Well, that would be all of those people. Your statements have truthiness, but are hyperbolic. WTF is 'first rights' to housing and jobs? That's weird b.s.; no one has a right to either, alas. All of those issues are tackled but by different people. Want compassion in laws that tend to humans rather than systems? Vote for compassionate people who think money is a resource and not the goal.

[@bicyclist2]

Other countries have solved this problem years ago. Criminalizing this won't make it go away ever. Sadly most employers don't want to give any homeless person a job. All people need a safe place to go to. Thank you.

[@MichaelOliver-ry7fj]

*#CubaThen! Safe and Homey

[@kallioperobling3359]

Other countries solved this long ago? Lol. Thank God we have a free press so we are able to hear the truth and not some propaganda that homelessness is not an issue. Homelessness is not going away. Its not going to be solved. We will always have the poor. We will always have mentally ill and addicted. What we can do is stop pretending everyone is better than us because they're not us and tend to the separate issues at hand. The first one would be to deport all the noncitizens that are causing the most problems, make institutions for chronically addicted (not jail) and properly care for the mentally ill. Get the government out of our business so we can afford homes and food and medical expenses. Make charity a thing again and live the truth that, yes, i am my brothers keeper.

[@socal33]

If we allow homeless to take over public spaces, then how does the public, the taxpayers, utilize the space they are paying for? Are we holding the homeless responsible for the damages? The pollution? The fact that people can't use the park for what it was intended for? The thousands of homeless I encountered at my job were not interested in work, shelter, responsibility, accountability. They took over Emergency Rooms, they caused millions of dollars to be lost by hospitals, and they never showed any intention of bettering themselves. That was about 99% of my street experience for 20 years. I, and many others, have lost patiencr with policies that coddle them. If they want to better themselves, then there are plenty of opportunities. Otherwise, they should all be forced to live in a segregated area away from the public that they have taken advantage of until they decide to participate in society, not leach off it.

[@mtngrl5859]

I had a friend who worked at a homeless camp & only 1 person there wasn't a drug user. They have 100% medical coverage coverage paid for by the state, they receive food stamps. In my area, I've seen some of the homeless threaten to kill other people without provocation.

[@sanctuarygaming4984]

"Why can't these poors simply get millions in donations from the super reach and live in expensive luxury campers? I simply don't understand how being homeless works, it is just like camping right? Anyways when's my next million dollar bribe coming in" - Clarence Thomas

[@kallioperobling3359]

I can see how this would go completely over your head. Racist much?

[@yellowbird5411]

There are huge empty plots of land everywhere in the U.S. Over many years, state and federal governments have turned some of them into campgrounds for vacationers. These campgrounds often have showers, electric, vending machines, toilets, etc. You pay to go to a campground like this, and it's great revenue for the government. Why can't campgrounds similar to this be established for the homeless, with similar facilities, near a bus route, and easily accessed by charity groups, medical teams, rehab personnel and employers looking for workers? Shopping areas would be a bus trip away. Mail and deliveries would treat it like any large apartment complex, with a central office to receive things. Every camper would be registered with the office with important information including next of kin, etc. For all the wasted land we have, I don't see why they aren't doing more of these "transitional" campgrounds. Pets allowed. Maybe there can also be a minimal nightly or weekly fee.

[@JohnSmith-ti2kp]

@yellowbird5411 There are facilities like this already, they are called prisons. They only work with force for they are dealing with people who are not right in the head. Also, state governments lose money on campgrounds a lot of the time.

[@tracianderson8384]

Love this idea! I have always felt that if someone becomes homeless, most start looking for a hand up, not a hand out. And most would prefer to work and work towards establishing a home of their own. But it's virtually impossible if you have to sleep on a park bench ... 😢

[@Derideo]

@@tracianderson8384 Go for it. Buy the land and get to it.

[@yellowbird5411]

@@JohnSmith-ti2kp This is an interesting discussion. Firstly, a campground is not a "facility" like a prison. No one is convicted in a court and made to go there and kept against their will. They can choose to go to a shelter, or a rehab center. Having worked with the mentally ill for over 30 years, I agree, that since they closed down all the state mental hospitals because the government didn't want to spend the money any more, these unfortunate folks are left to wander the streets, off their medication and abused, ignored or killed. They were supposed to get case managers to visit them every month to keep them stable in the community, at least that is the story they sold us. We knew it wasn't going to work long term, and it hasn't. Many people with mental illness just need medication to get back to independent living in assisted living. Designating a "transistional" campground for homeless is, in my view, no different than "forcing" me to live in a house or apt. in areas zoned for it. I cannot build a house anywhere I want, cannot rent anywhere I want, and cannot do a LOT of things anywhere I want. It's part of having a civilization instead of a jungle. Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.

[@wenerjy]

@@yellowbird5411 The state mental hospitals closed to fund GOP tax cuts under Reagan.

[@dyricrothwell4254]

They have shelters but refuse to go to them bc they have rules

[@bob3ironfist]

Often, these rules prevent homeless people from staying there and having a job by enforcing strict curfews

[@shell16858]

They have less than 100 shelter beds in Josephine county.. My understanding is also that the people are basically incarcerated in the shelter. How bout you go try it for a day

[@brotherbig4651]

@@shell16858You have no place to live. Yet you are so picky about the condition of the shelter? How about we move you into a 5 star hotel?

[@jasonjames4254]

@@brotherbig4651 Exactly! The homeless are always just beggars wanting to be choosers. If I were homeless, I'd happily take an Army style barracks over sleeping in the freaking street any day! Matter of fact, when I was in the Navy I lived in a berthing compartment aboard ship with bunks stacked 3 high and over 60 other guys in an area of 500 SF. If it was good enough for me then, it's good enough for the homeless now! It's not luxury but it's housing! Tell them here's your bunk, there's the shower, now get off your sorry ass and get a job!

[@phoenixtoash2396]

​@@jasonjames4254really? Well then say good bye to privacy or friends. Or staying out with the rest of the normal society. You further distance yourself from all things you might be exposed to. Like theft, rape, beating, indoctrination, stigma is bad enough. Guilt is twice as hard. . But hey your not picky .. it's all part of the process. (Sarcasm)...

[@jayski9410]

If I have nowhere else to sleep, I have the right to sleep where ever I want. So by that logic, if I have no money (which is necessary in a modern economy) I have the right to steal. This sounds like the same warped path that got us to squatter's rights. If I move into a vacant house, the rightful owner can't throw me out because I suddenly have tenet's rights. These are "rights run amok". It's time to stop the insanity.

[@belgianbull4722]

bring affordable housing to people. Criminalizing homelessness while at the same time not providing shelter doesn't make any sense. It would be like criminalizing breathing air

[@steveb796]

Criminalizing a problem does nothing to solve it.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

Hmmm. So, entering our country ill3gally or looting shouldn't be a crime? Seems like we aren't enforcing a lot of criminal laws lately, causing all of this chaos.

[@ericw9702]

It's a deterrent for that behavior. The same reason giving out free clean needles, etc makes the problem worse, rather than helping.

[@cbpd89]

Say it louder for the people at the back! Criminalizing homelessness doesn't suddenly give people the incentive to get homes. It's not the absence of desire to have a roof over their heads that keeps them on the street. Things that actually work: affordable housing, temporary housing, mental health treatment, addiction treatment, and paying people a living wage.

[@steveb796]

@@ericw9702 are you serious? Like people are trying to decide whether to be homeless or not and they just decide not to because it’s illegal. Wow.

[@mistercohaagen]

@@ericw9702 Giving out free needles keeps a heroin problem from becoming a heroin + AIDS problem. Don't forget these people end up in hospitals often, and they can infect people that don't use drugs. Also, it allows the drug user more time and chances to get clean. It slows down the emergency, and there is nothing anyone wants more during an emergency than more time to deal with it. What made you think that clean needles was a bad thing? That's kind of a wild thing to think... who told you that?

[@pj361]

Maybe they could go camp out on the supreme court judges property and fertilize their lawn at the same time. I'm sure the judges wouldn't mind.

[@forgottenman8629]

maybe bums need to camp 'only' on a leftist-owned property only -- public property is that -- public and 'not' for a bum's squatting...

[@adrienneanderson-smith2257]

A brilliant youngish man, who lost his elite job & condo during the lockdown, politely talked a priest into letting him stay inside the church for catching up on VERY needed upkeep. He is getting financially stable while polishing & cleaning. (Attends services too.) Our church is SHINING! With God’s help & grace.

[@shell16858]

❤

[@jasonjames4254]

And this young man is not an addict and he will obviously soon work his way out of his problem. This is NOT the typical homeless person!

[@TraciBradley-i8k]

They also have to shit. How's that working out???

[@rusedorange]

Probably about the same for them as it is for you.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

@@rusedorange NOPE. They aren't paying to poop like we are. We pay for sewer monthly, or we have septic systems that aren't free and require maintenance.

[@LivingtheDream67]

same as San Fran.

[@findbridge1790]

@@legaleeblonde4310 you have sick mind, just sayin'

[@UncleFordsInterrogatories]

@@legaleeblonde4310 You pay not to sleep next to your poop, not to poop. Homeless people sleep next to their own, the pigeons and the dogs' poop.

[@privateinformation198]

If the highest court in the land is asking what the difference between camping and being homeless, this country has no chance.

[@1k1ngst0n]

[@jonathansegraves8623]

OK Mr. or Ms. Genius. Give us THE DEFINITIVE TAKE on THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAMPING & BEING HOMELESS. Are ONLY PEOPLE WITH HOMES TO GO BACK TO ALLOWED TO CAMP OUT ?? ARE HOMELESS PEOPLE PROHIBITED FROM "camping out" ?? Is GOD a better judge of homelessness AS A CRIME or is THE HIGHEST COURT IN ALL THE LAND ? WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY, THE TOWN CRIER ?? " HEAR YE, HEAR YE .... " I believe you're missing the point of the justices' questions . They aren't asking the lawyers and attorneys to TELL THEM what homelessness IS, they are asking them to distingush between having lost all of ANY TYPE of shelter or HOME ( " BEING HOMELESS " ) & breaking the law SIMPLY FOR HAVING FALLEN AT ONE TIME ON THE HARDEST OF HARDEST TIMES THEY HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED AND TRYING TO STAY ALIVE.

[@thedanishviking88]

The question is rhetorical and intended to make a point. He understands camping is when you sleep in a tent outside.

[@Ont785]

Again, you misinterpreted the entire conversation.

[@2-old-Forthischet]

So, if I go camping at a campground and don't pay the fee, I can just claim that I'm homeless? We are making a really good example for the younger people.

[@nickking9568]

I feel bad for the homeless but they can't camp anywhere they want

[@GregLakatosChradm]

Public parks aren't camp grounds. They even have signs stating the park is closed after dark.

[@abc123fhdi]

they aren't supposed to argue compassion, they are supposed to consider what the law says not their own personal feelings about the matter.

[@bob3ironfist]

Unless it has to do with abortion. Then, law and precedent are cast aside in favor of the emotions of the billionaires who own the conservative justices.

[@mikeid3067]

since when has justice been as simple as a rule book.

[@dward8738]

@@bob3ironfist Which is what the progressive justices did back in the day when they claimed the Constitution covered abortion in Roe v Wade! We aren’t saying women shouldn’t have the right. You just cannot say the Constitution gives such a right.

[@adamshaw5032]

​@@dward8738NAILED IT

[@PrimoGIU]

Actually, they are to APPLY THE COTUS, as written, as interpreted by the Framers at the time of ratification! We are simply undoing the Marxist sodomy of the COTUS starting with the "progressive movement" (Marxist) begun in earnest by Woodrow Wilson!

[@legaleeblonde4310]

You can't even park your car anywhere you want for as long as you want. If you don't like it, go to a state or area that allows it.

[@1k1ngst0n]

[@bonajab]

No need to criminalize homeless status. But sleeping on public property and creating little garbage dumps should be illegal. It is not cruel and unusual to tell a homeless person to obey this law. Homeless people have a choice to either get a job or panhandling. Oh, by the way, stealing shopping carts should be prosecuted and punished.

[@janetmcguffey1394]

does this reasoning then mean that people with no food (which is a basic human need), should be able to steal to eat? this is a slippery slope...also, should public beaches not shut down after dark? So homeless can set up camp there...?

[@nootnoot9842]

I'd argue yes that someone with no food or free access to it should steal it. We make a huge excess of food. You can't just go without drinking water or eating you psychopath.

[@les0101s]

Aren't these people sleeping in public parks? They're not stealing anything.

[@Diamonddavej]

“People, do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy himself when he is starving.” Proverbs 6:30-31

[@alstclair]

@janetmcguffey13 when was the last time you had nothing to eat for a few days?

[@mightisright]

There's a false assumption that homeless are not given the opportunity to sleep in shelter. That shelter always comes with rules - no drugs, no violence, etc., and those rules exactly why homeless choose to sleep outdoors. They are drug addicted and don't want to change and they fight with other homeless, which forces shelters to kick them out for safety reasons.

[@candykane4271]

There is no other choice, is simply not true. Life is all about what choices.

[@Rotoflier]

How does $60k in building materials cost the buyer $350k for the house? It's just not worth the money. Especially, when you have low wages.

[@pricklypear7516]

So save up $60K and build your own house. Oh, don't forget the cost of the property it's located on. Or the utilities it's connected to. Or the roads that allow you access. Factor in permits and inspections and contractor's insurance, and remember to grant yourself an allowance for waste removal. Invite me over to your shack in 25 years.

[@swissgirlie1]

​@@pricklypear7516and a little labor too¡!!!!!!dud

[@pricklypear7516]

@@swissgirlie1 Wake up, hon. That's why I said 25 years: To do what a crew could do in a few weeks.

[@tishslack1089]

I have to pay for living expenses and pay taxes. What does a homeless person to contribute to society.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

@Monkles301 Why is that horrible? Lol.

[@Xx-po1fu]

Many homeless people work and pay taxes also.

[@MichaelOliver-ry7fj]

Clearly You are not a Fan of The New Socialism; Biden Style

[@CrispColdChris]

Cleaner windshields duh

[@pjwolf-wiemers]

This is not good

[@phaedrussmith1949]

This case is about criminalising the pathology of the American society. The problem is that it criminalises the behaviour of the wrong people.

[@walterengler5709]

You are free to move to Russia when you so choose Comrade. The rest of us prefer a society where people are expected to contribute to the public good, in order to partake of the public good. Or you are free to empty your pockets of all the money you have to support them. Me, I'm keeping mine as I worked hard to earn it, work hard to save it, and do not plan to waste it.

[@phaedrussmith1949]

@@walterengler5709 If your freedom narrative is true, then I'm also free to stay here and say what I want. Also, in no way do you "speak for the rest of us." The "public good" is helping one another, obviously something you don't do. It's a characteristic of a weak person masquerading as a strong person.

[@walterengler5709]

@@phaedrussmith1949 The public good is helping those who help themselves. Harkening back to the early colonial days of no work no food, I expect people to try to improve, try to be useful to society, try to be part of the public good. And those I do help, far more than all the liberals ever do from the efforts I've put in with people. As for the rest who want to live off the public good, that is merely wasting effort and time and producing nothing for society. And when people can't understand that, well, you get the homeless mess like you see in California.

[@rbm6184]

'What's The Difference Between That And Camping Out?': Thomas Questions Lawyer In Homelessness Case Depends on who's property someone is camping on. Its trespassing if on private property. So the implication here must be public property.

[@RohanKumar-zr3pj]

What about shelters provided by city?

[@LMike2004]

What happened to vagrancy laws?

[@forgottenman8629]

and that's the idea in front of the SC, to place those 'back' on the books along with loitering and trespassing. if one chooses to squat they'll have to do so on 'leftist' property, not 'public property'...

[@tylerchapman9234]

Racist!

[@LMike2004]

@@tylerchapman9234 Why?

[@jonathansegraves8623]

They have been declared INVALID for BEING UNCONSTITUTIONALLY VAGUE - A VIOLATION OF DUE PROCESS.

[@ytmndan]

​@@jonathansegraves8623So then we make them more specific.

[@freedom5325]

Tiny homes on city lots? Doubt that could happen in states.

[@francesburger129]

In my community, they were referred to as "planned slums" and overridden.

[@HaimTabibi]

It happens in most areas we do engineering work in. But this is about supporting a drug lifestyle with taxpayer money.

[@willaknotts1298]

You need to check out Vermont. Theyve now got pods for homeless downtown in a parking lot.

[@toplarry]

Need to power wash this building. Community standards.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

😂😂

[@davidlubuurwa3402]

😂😂😂 someone needs to open up a law suit against the supreme court for not power washing the building and failure to look after public property

[@jonathansegraves8623]

Power wash the homeless while you're at it too ?

[@isaacwhull]

Robinson v. California from 1962? unconstitutional to punish someone for being a drug addict? if that's true then that's an assumption and assuming ALL homeless are drug addicts, there is no proof of that whatsoever.

[@sciencefirst7880]

When you're camping out... you can go home. It's different when you have no where to go.

[@Andrew_Murro]

Homelessness is not and never has been a crime. Living on the streets, blocking access to businesses, drug abuse, defecating in public, etc …. That’s the crimes. Get them off the streets

[@TylerDurden-n8b]

Shouldn't the politicians who caused all of these problems be somewhat responsible for all of the homelessness happening all over the country? Also, camping is something someone usually plans to do on a temporary basis. Homelessness is something that you don't plan for but happens when greedy people gouge the people who can't afford to defend themselves. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. That's American JustUS don't you think?

[@forgottenman8629]

it ain't politicos, it 'is leftists' who 'created' this issue, politicos are merely representative of their constituents...

[@legaleeblonde4310]

If our homeless shelters and monies used to help them weren't being used for I.I.'s, this wouldn't be a discussion. It's gotten this bad since the invasion started. Common sense people.

[@Rolandjes37]

Some people don't want to go to a shelter because there's homeless people that are very bad people , criminals. If this is your first day of school you don't want to go hang out with a bullies and thieves. Lots of homeless people are on SSI they got disability. Problem is rent sir No one on the planet should be homeless if they want a house they should have a home. I don't understand your comment but Not everybody's greedy not everybody wants bad to their brother and sister some people just are out for common sense.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

​@Rolandjes37 Then make good choices. That should be a deterrent for bad behavior, not an incentive or an enabler.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

@Rolandjes37 If they get SSI, then they're lucky, and there shouldn't be a problem finding housing. I know a lot of people who legitimately need it and can't get it.

[@les0101s]

@@legaleeblonde4310 Rents are too high.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

@les0101s Well, my homeowners insurance, taxes, electricity, water, and basic maintenance of my home is too high. I worked hard to get my home and pay it off. They should, too. Stop enabling them.

[@markwrede8878]

The difference is camping out with corporate executives and high court justices.

[@markallen8560]

If you are capable of working and choose not to you should be starving. People need to stop enabling homelessness.

[@forgottenman643]

well said...

[@VulturousStuff]

I was paying taxes while living in my car and yet received 0 assistance they make u jump through unrealistic loops homeless shelters are a total scam disgusting.

[@whowillsaveyou3554]

A lot of 501c folks make a nice living off of addiction and homelessness.

[@VulturousStuff]

@@whowillsaveyou3554 I asked the salvation army if I could sleep in my car in the parking lot since I was working 2nd shift and was told no and since I've slept at a lot of Walmarts before I asked if I could do that in this specific town the lady lied to me and told me I'd be arrested. The worst kind of people work in these places.

[@mcross320]

Person responding to addiction has no idea what they are talking about.

[@mikepolls3032]

If drugs and alcohol are gone does that addiction stop

[@mcross320]

@@mikepolls3032 the obsession remains, insanity comes next.

[@jasonjames4254]

@@mcross320 And at the point where that "insanity" makes someone a threat to themselves or others, they can be involuntarily committed in a facility. Addiction is NOT an illness, and you have no fundamental right to partake in an addition that threatens the safety and security of others.

[@mcross320]

@@jasonjames4254 Try talking about something you know rather than make your shit up!

[@jasonjames4254]

@@mcross320 Trust me, I know something about addiction and involuntary commitment. Over half the people who are involuntarily committed are addicts.

[@danjohnston9037]

Maybe that it is involuntary ?

[@terywetherlow7970]

Never in America have things been as screwed up,as they are right now. Picking on the person at the bottom of the heap is just wrong.

[@forgottenman8629]

wrong. Druggies and bums 'chosen' lifestyle will 'not' be propped up...

[@thatguyrich9822]

I prefer that my streets and sidewalks (for which I pay taxes) aren't blocked-up with homeless encampments.

[@pricklypear7516]

Thank you for recognizing that I, the American taxpayer, am now at the bottom of the heap.

[@technologic21]

(Proverbs 19:17). Those who refuse to help the poor will find themselves on the losing end: “Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses” (Proverbs 28:27).

[@phillipellison4758]

@@forgottenman8629 Where was your firm stance when stance when Citizens United was being ruled? Where was your firm stance when trump gave those that need it the least a permanent tax break? You need some Monsanto GMO pollen sprinkled on your head and sued into oblivion for patent infringement. That was another ruling by thomas. How do feel about NOT propping up "people " with money addictions? You cool with that ?

[@miken7629]

If you want to help homeless they need 3 things. First, buy them a gym membership for exercise, bathroom, & showers. Second, they need a storage facility for seasonal clothing and food storage. Third, a person needs an address but this could be a private mail box that gives a street address for ID & mail. These 3 things would allow homeless people to function in society. People have lived in tents for thousands of years, nothing wrong with that, for $300 a person could have an insulated Ice Shanty tent that provides adequate shelter and comfort.

[@mikemann1638]

It's just sick when a supreme court justice doesn't know the difference between camping out and not having a home to live in what the hell is wrong with the system

[@teresaprete4639]

The answer to the question when it comes to camping , there are no sanitary facilities. Plain and simple .

[@drgdieselfrenzy7707]

What's the difference? Streets and sidewalks are not campgrounds. When it becomes comfortable to be homeless there's no incentive to change it. The Coast Guard expects people to participate in their own rescue, I don't think it's inappropriate to ask the homeless to participate in their own rescue.

[@olzt100]

Housing should be considered a utility. When people get to flip homes and use them solely as investments housing prices will go up. When businesses that pay well only go to large cities in states and not the rural areas, that will drive up costs for limited housing. Cities and states are attacking problems influenced by high housing costs and not what is causing housing cost to increase and help increase the homeless population. Only a small percentage of the homeless want to be homeless, maybe 10 to 20 percent. But the availability and affordability is a major issues for those who lose housing for some reason or another. If electric companies could charge us $120 for turning on a light for an hour they would. That is why they are controlled and regulated. The same with cable and insurance.

[@666THEMARK666]

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that regular home owners also get very greedy and sell their property for overvalued prices, not just investors and flippers.

[@us-unclesam6566]

Makes yo wonder if the Court ever had a case concerning taxpayers rights as to what they will and will not pay for.

[@maritawalker776]

All saddens me in America. No one should be homeless here I don't care what their issues are. Reality is many have different life situations, so they will need help for various reasons. Basic essentials are a roof over our heads, food, and health care. I try never to look down on anyone but lift them up. 🙏🏾

[@jackremington3397]

Then YOU can pay for them

[@boondocks8002]

My family has taken in several homeless over the years. Major lesson learned.....no one will benefit from your generosity unless they truly want help. They steal from you, abuse you, won't clean up after themselves, refuse counciling or helpful advice. Love can't solve homeless problems. Allowing people to live openly in The streets and not arresting criminals leads to broken down society.

[@legaleeblonde4310]

​@@boondocks8002I totally agree. I've taken in two people before, and they didn't want to live by my rules, like don't bring in drugs, don't steal my stuff, etc.

[@boondocks8002]

@@legaleeblonde4310 exactly. It's dangerous now to take in homeless. We stopped doing it recently.

[@MS2036-c8o]

Ignorance at it's finest. 99% of homelessness is by choice. There are programs to assist homeless to find and maintain permanent homes and jobs.

[@angelmatos9143]

Nowhere Man..............

[@CarlAyers-x8h]

So the difference is... one is a word.... The other is an activity. Glad I could help clear that up for yall.

[@itsmelaura1533]

BS! Addicts CHOOSE to use drugs! Just as I choose NOT to use drugs! Good grief, accountability damn it!

[@Spyrit2011]

What is the purpose of poverty, other than cruelty?

[@terywetherlow7970]

@Spyrit: There was a Reference book at the library about the 1800's. The brilliant societal engineers were playing this game with little have nots. I did not know i'd need to reference it when i read it. Darn it. It explains the disgusting attitude of the Wealthy towards the 99% back then. The exploitation just for their amusement. I wish the Lord would hurry, so we could ask him what he would do. Don't you?

[@technologic21]

(Proverbs 19:17). Those who refuse to help the poor will find themselves on the losing end: “Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses” (Proverbs 28:27).

[@thomassenbart]

Purpose of poverty? Very strange question. Poverty is the result of lacking X and Y. It is not a goal.

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

@@terywetherlow7970 The Lord said, when I asked him " it is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end" We both had a good laugh and he wooshed away into the breeze never to be seen again. The lord is a really funny guy ,you should meet him someday, once was enough for me! A real cutup though!

[@Spyrit2011]

@@terywetherlow7970 I am an Atheist, not that it relevant to my point. However, it is the question I pose to every capitalist, and have yet to get an answer.

[@justletmepostthis276]

What the heck...I'll just ask...Do the Amish have homelessness? Anyone?

[@Xx-po1fu]

If the Amish had over 34 million people like the USA does t would have homelessness. If the USA had only 377,000 like the Amish does it wouldn't have any homelessness.

[@justletmepostthis276]

@@Xx-po1fu I'm stating the resourcefulness and community connections they have, despite their religion or size.

[@tonyrivers8688]

Build hundreds of toilets, kitchens, dining rooms, single room beds, mental illness therapy and other things in a homeless camp away from residents.

[@danatanley1015]

Why do they have to stay away from other residents ? Last time I knew their blood is red just like yours and mine ,What makes you different than them ?

[@MARKIEBANUNCE]

Great idea

[@HaimTabibi]

$billion, how much can you donate? This is about taxpayer supported drug lifestyle more than anything else.

[@historypolitics108]

@@danatanley1015 You're part of the problem if you don't understand why.

[@weirdshibainu]

Uh..that's called a shelter

[@notlisted6460]

SMH.....God help us.

[@hugoaguiar4400]

But if you pay rent how you going to get high !?

[@forgottenman8629]

meaning if you have a job and pay rent how do you get high, you don't, not much time for that anymore..

[@mgtowamerican8717]

One is very temporary and the other is permanent. Not hard

[@charlesiragui2473]

This argument is close to a constitutional right to be housed by the government. The person is not responsible providing the essential needs because the lack of them must be accommodated by the government.

[@kdw75]

People should be free to sleep on public grounds as long as they don't make a mess and as long as they aren't there for extended periods.

[@theghostofrethsich2813]

Just to push buttons I’d build my shelter out of closet doors so I can always be indoors

[@GAILandROD]

You have the right as a homeowner to not have someone sleep on your property....

[@jamescaldwell2357]

That is not what the case is about. It's about public lands, not private. City parks and city benches.

[@gr8videofun]

Open the border and let in 20 more homeless people.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Most homeless people are American citizens.

[@franksullivan1873]

I think it is the responsibility of the community to find an appropriate solution to address homelessness.Provide a sanctioned place to camp not in a structured neighborhood with children.

[@terywetherlow7970]

Where have allotments of money for homeless been used and by whom??

[@swatzinatorhanselhoff7858]

Are they going to make food illegal to them next

[@tedphillips3119]

I can't believe they've gotten this far in this case without figuring out an objective definition of homelessness. This should have been the first thing they hashed out.

[@ketanjibrownsfavemolester7592]

Libs want it to be a "status" 👈🤔 so that they can argue "oppression" against "status"...

[@seer1]

Camping Out is a choice of Action. 👀😳

[@larky368]

That's like saying since being poor is not a crime it shouldn't be illegal to rob people. The term "Homeless" is a sanitized description for words like "Bum" and "Vagrant" which describe people who engage in a type of behavior. You can be homeless and live in a shelter or live with friends or motels. Those choices are not illegal. But camping out in front of someone's store is and should be illegal. It is the BEHAVIOR that is what is illegal.

[@Soberfuzz]

It's like a border. When you retreat, it retreats with you.

[@timmc8444]

The difference is the campers have money so they can challenge any tickets given without a legal reason for it being given..the homeless have no money to fight this shit!

[@sheilamason1895]

Homelessness is a symptom not a crime. Until we address the core problems, which are varied and complex, the solution will remain elusive. A sweep it under the rug, out of site out of mind, into a prison approach is the real crime.

[@robperry5293]

Clerence, I do a lot of camping... The difference between camping and being homeless is that I have a house, I buy my food, load up my tent, ice chest, and stove and go somewhere nice. For the homeless it is where can I sleep tonight without getting assaulted or arrested. If you still don't get it; leave your money, cards and ID at home & go, see how you do living on the streets for a week or two, then get back to me. A work for benefits program would be worth talking about.

[@askew9976]

Speaking of camping. Where were you for a week there Mr Thomas? In the RV on a vacation?

[@thomassenbart]

Not relevant.

[@jamescaldwell2357]

If the argument is that homelessness is a criminal act, then, if I, as person who has a home, goes and sleeps on a part bench, I will not be arrested, so long as I can prove that I do have a home?

[@At_the_Garden]

Thomas has his billionaire master Harlan to take care of him. Homeless people might as well try to get arrested so they have a place to stay.

[@webincomeincome8767]

If camping out as the Justice states is OK, I’m sure he won’t mind if any of us “camp out” in his back yard awhile.

[@datswassup9902]

That would be private property

[@yrmthr]

​@datswassup9902 how about the sidewalk out by their driveway?

[@uktea9610]

Let's stop sending money outside of the US and fix our problems. There are some countries that have virtually no homeless. Why can't the USA do this?

[@kallioperobling3359]

We don't kill our citizens, for starters

[@dmasucci17]

There are public camp grounds.

[@jameskerrigan2997]

Portland is not far. Lots of room there.

[@christopherrichardwadedett4100]

Camping out doesn't usually involve lots of mentally ill people, criminality, prostitution and illegal drugs: Although ivy league parties often resemble that description. Prayers

[@pamelaforrest1622]

seriously?????

[@justinlloyd3]

What was the point in such a short clip?

[@GP-nr2fm]

Judge Thomas is a respected figure in America. However, some people want him to step down due to their political beliefs. This is unfair and hypocritical.

[@FrankGrauStudio]

“Sleeping outside” is NOT the definition of homelessness (otherwise all campers are homeless, which is absurd). Having no shelter by no choice of one’s own would be the definition of homeless. But living on the street by choice is not homelessness. That’s just vagrancy, and many vagrants wouldn’t take your shelter if you offered it, because they don’t want the responsibility concomitant with having shelter. Some people are living on the street because they lost their home. Most I’ve seen when serving the homeless on skid row were clearly on the street because of addictions, because of mental instability, or because they’re vagrants.

[@johng.7560]

All the people who are ok with homeless people living on and trashing our sidewalks should have to bring a homeless person to their house to sleep in their yard.

[@jamescaldwell2357]

I agree. Set up a tent in your yard and allow them to live there. I have no issue with that. And it won't cost you a thing. Heck, pay them to mow your lawn. Win, win.